Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 6, 2006
OT 06-84

(Did you donate? Read here why you probably should.)

News & views …

Comments

How are the donations going?

Posted by: Colman | Sep 6 2006 8:05 utc | 1

US puppet Pakistan signs peace deal with al Qaeda, guarantees Bin Laden’s safety and channels US aid to al Qaeda and the Taliban, all with the knowledge and tacit approval of George Bush.
[crickets]
Sad about that crocodile guy, ain’t it?
My fellow Americans, you are fucking idiots.
Currently:
CNN: “Clemson Freshman Raising Brother”
MSNBC: “It’s a Boy! Japan’s Princess Kiko bears son, averting succession crisis”
FoxNews: “Bush Vows No Retreat in War on Terror”
The same insurgency the afghans are losing to:

On a July morning, Taliban gunmen shot dead the province’s most powerful cleric as he walked to the main city mosque to lead morning prayers. Five months later, they executed a teacher at a nearby village school as students watched. The following month, they walked into another mosque and gunned down an Afghan engineer working for a foreign aid group, shooting him in the back as he pressed his forehead to the ground and supplicated to God.
This spring and summer, the slow and methodical siege of this southern provincial capital intensified. The Taliban and their allies set up road checkpoints, burned 20 trucks and slowed the flow of supplies to reconstruction projects. All told, in surrounding Helmand Province, five teachers, one judge and scores of police officers have been killed. Dozens of schools and courts have been shuttered, according to Afghan officials.
The same sort of insurgency we’re losing to in Iraq.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 6 2006 8:11 utc | 2

Why Cynthia McKinney had to lose…
I e-mailed her, she never got the information on the contracts…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 6 2006 8:20 utc | 3

Columbia Journalism Review: Failures of Imagination
How the media (especially some editors) suppressed reporting about prisoner abuse out of patriotism until the first Abu Ghraib pictures were published. After that some reporting was done on presidential advised torture but it still lacks bite.
Good read.

Posted by: b | Sep 6 2006 8:21 utc | 4

@Coleman – as of now, alltogether some 14 donations through paypal and by check amounting to some 40% of the total fruit cake support.

Posted by: b | Sep 6 2006 8:50 utc | 5

Convicted ex-Ill. governor out-polls Bush

Posted by: beq | Sep 6 2006 11:45 utc | 6

Jerome wrote
Hi there. Just a small note to say hi to everybody and to confirm that the macbook is now on its way (I just took care of the logistics).
I thought this meant the fruit case was complete. Should I send a coupla pounds (or euros) somewhere? Remind me of the address and I’ll put a euro note or two in an envelope and send them off.
(I can’t use paypal.)

Posted by: Argh | Sep 6 2006 15:46 utc | 7

diversion bomb
“Hippy Sex Fiends and Brutal Machiavellians”
[always knew he was a chimp]

Posted by: beq | Sep 6 2006 18:19 utc | 8

George Carlin talking about Who really controls America
“It’s called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it”

Posted by: gmac | Sep 6 2006 18:32 utc | 9

Argh, best thing to do is send an email to Bernhard and see what can be worked out. Thanks for your help with this. It certainly makes me feel better about the world to see how many people have wanted to make a difference as a community.

Posted by: conchita | Sep 6 2006 18:39 utc | 10

Links would have worked Uncle $cam…lol

Posted by: bkieft | Sep 6 2006 18:54 utc | 11

froomkin: On Quoting bin Laden

The spectacle of the president of the United States extensively quoting Osama bin Laden to bolster his controversial policies during political season deserves notice, and reflection.
By all rights, President Bush ought to be embarrassed that the al Qaeda leader who masterminded the September 11 terrorist attacks remains at large almost five years later.

Mentioning bin Laden so much couldn’t help but remind listeners of Bush’s failure to capture or kill him. But the risk was easily offset by the fact that bin Laden remains the most effective bogeyman out there, and job one for the White House in the run-up to a potentially crippling mid-term election is to scare the hell out of people.

BUSH DIGS UP MOLDY OLD MANUAL OF AFGHAN JIHAD: Tries to make it a reason for why we fight

How do you know when a leader is being deceptive about “al Qaeda” documents? His lips are moving. Another explanation, more benign, is that he’s utterly clueless.
From Associated Press, today, in the story: “Bush reminds Americans U.S. is at war.”
“Bush said that despite the absence of a successor on U.S. soil to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the terrorist danger remains potent,” wrote AP.
“Bin laden and his terrorist’s allies have made their intentions as clear as Lenin and Hitler before them,” the president was said to have said before an organization called the Military Officers Association of America. “The question is `Will we listen? Will we pay attention to what these evil men say?'”
“Quoting extensively from letters, Web site statements, audio recording and videotapes purportedly from terrorists, as well as documents found in various raids, Bush said that al Qaida, homegrown terrorists and other groups have adapted to changing U.S. defenses . . . ” continued the wire report.
“For example, Bush cited what he called “a grisly al Qaida manual” found in 2000 by British police during an anti-terrorist raid in London, which included a chapter called “Guidelines for Beating and Killing Hostages.”
Readers of my work from GlobalSecurity.Org and this blog know that when someone quotes from a “document” attributed to al Qaeda, it’s time to review it. Because you either won’t be getting the entire picture, or its historical context and provenance will be distorted in some interesting but politically expedient manner.
The ‘grisly al Qaeda maual’ is the same ‘al Qaeda manual’ that was posted to the US Department of Justice website years ago. It is more accurately known as the “Manual of Afghan Jihad” or “Military Studies in the Jihad [Holy War] Against the Tyrants.”
You can think of it as a moldy oldy, dragged out and banged around to shake loose the dust of fear when leaders need some to sprinkle around.

Posted by: b real | Sep 6 2006 18:58 utc | 12

@bkieft
Links would have worked Uncle $cam
There were no links, in most of the above they came from e-mail news groups for the most part, and bits & pieces from a board that is hard to permalink to. However, the synthesis resonates on a lot of levels if you consider what this crew* is capable of…
*by “crew”, I don’t mean the puppet potemkin pResident.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 6 2006 20:41 utc | 13

Here’s a link to another car that runs on water scam.
This isn’t to say that we’re not being gamed by the “peak oil” meme as per Palast (he delves into this in Armed Madhouse), just that most alternative energy schemes are rather scams that defy the physical laws of the universe and misrepresent quantum and string theories to bolster their supposed efficacy.
What is an ultracentrifuge other than a really, really spiffy one?
You cannot get something for nothing energy-wise, not in this universe.

Posted by: gmac | Sep 6 2006 21:34 utc | 14

@U$:
I have read about 1/2 of the post. Will read the rest later. First opinion: The guy is a nutcase. Not that there aren’t elements of his thinking which could be true, but that his thinking is tremendously reductionist — as if peak oil were the only problem affecting the planet at the moment, and everything were being successfully controlled by a small group of (mostly) long since dead people. The guy’s writing is all over the place, posting facts side-by-side implying causality. He has already repeated himself three times over. I don’t trust people who can’t write coherently because they are unable to think coherently. He needs to learn how to meditate and take a few deep breaths.

Posted by: Malooga | Sep 6 2006 22:08 utc | 15

@Malooga, I would think that many here know my patterns by now, (*winks* at paid gov contractors), in that I do not believe everything that I post , I’m more concerned with the data, not the messenger. However, the ‘peak oil scam’ resonates with me at this time. Further, I do not hold to your ideal that of not trusting people whom can’t write coherently because they are unable to think coherently, that is not always the case. Again, some are foxes some are hedgehogs some are “other”. I would add more, but I am running late as it is, ‘for a very important date’…lol
There are two kinds of people in the world, some who think there are two kinds of people in this world, and some who know better.
~Tom Robbins

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 6 2006 23:08 utc | 16

Bernhard, could I have an e-mail address?
(I feel as if I should know it, but I don’t, and I don’t know how to ask without asking.)

Posted by: Argh | Sep 6 2006 23:40 utc | 17

Go to the “About this site” page for email info.
There are two kinds of people in the world, some who think there are two kinds of people in this world, and some who know better.
~Tom Robbins

I know better. I know there are really three types of people in this world 😉
I’ll give a more substantial post about peak oil, Ruppert, Palast, abiota, and my own theories, which make more sense than Palast or your guy, tomorrow.

Posted by: Malooga | Sep 7 2006 1:03 utc | 18

Rove withheld crucial CIA leak email for nearly a year
Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove withheld a crucial email from CIA leak investigators for eleven months, according to an upcoming book that arrives in bookstores today.
Can we do that ‘frog march’ thing now?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 7 2006 5:25 utc | 19

“Frog marches” are reserved for little folk like you an’ me, Unca. Rove ain’t little in any sense you want to use the word. Are you still thinking that there’s justice to be had…? Rove will pull a Kennyboy Lay and “die” before he ever sets foot in a detention cell.

Posted by: Monolycus | Sep 7 2006 5:36 utc | 20

Sibel Edmonds and William Weaver demolish Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton’s new book
with a detailed list of government officials who were silenced (in effect)by the 9/11 commission.

By the way, I think that Hamilton must be in the running elevation to the CIA Hall of Fame: he is certainly a triple crown cover-up champion: October Surprise, Iran-Contra, and 9/11 in each of which he found nothing to shake his faith that defending the essential goodness of his cohorts in the governing class trumps the public’s right to know.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Sep 7 2006 5:36 utc | 21

The Islamic Emirate of Waziristan and Greater Talibanistan
North Waziristan is not al-Qaeda’s endgame, the entire border region is the target

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 7 2006 7:12 utc | 22

Such a charming Israeli Prof.. No?
Beginning of the End?
Today I had an opportunity to learn about a very specific type of person, or to be exact, a scientist, that probably will be (or maybe is) proud to be a part of a project that will likely result in the death of thousands, if not millions of people.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 7 2006 9:42 utc | 23

Does anyone else have the feeling that now that “everybody” wants to go to Tehran, “real men” want to go to Islamabad? Although even true believers in the U.S. are starting to have doubts about the glorious struggle to bring freedom to Iraq as a way to better America’s position in the world, from a Jabotinskian point of view the increasingly likely partition of Iraq into 3 antagonistic mini-states represents a complete success. An encore in Iran (with Khuzestan, Baluchistan and Iranian Kurdistan as possible secessionist provinces) must exert great attraction on the architects of the Iraqi disintegration, even if Saddam’s failed attempt to detach Khuzestan should serve as warning. U.S. special forces are reported to be already deployed in Iran, although not ostensibly to this end. After that, it’s on to Pakistan, which, by pure chance, is now seen to be “harboring” Osama, and which also has an ample supply of restive ethnic groups (Baluchis again, and Waziri’s). That Pakistan has nuclear weapons presumably represents only a minor technicality to be overcome via the same brilliant planning that has characterized the Iraq operation. The true beauty of the project lies in the fact that it can be “sold” to dim-witted Americans as a program for securing U.S. control of strategic energy resources and infrastructures.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Sep 7 2006 10:01 utc | 24

@Unca
“Peak Oil” is a buzzword that has greatly energized the sustainability crowd. What is safe to say at this point is that we have a global oil supply problem, because new finds have been few while oil demand has been rising inexorably. We have been drawing down reserves for the last 20 years. That much is established fact.
Ergo: Unless we find a lot of oil through exploration in the coming years, globalism (which is could also be called ‘anti-localism’ or ‘transportism’) should become increasingly uneconomical.
Have we used up half the planet’s recoverable oil? Some very smart oil people like Pickens, Simmons, Petrie and Maxwell think so.
When it comes to oil, Mike Ruppert is no more than a shrill gadfly. He has zero expertise on this subject matter. For an informed catastrophist view on oil the man to turn to is Ruppert’s ex-collaborator A D Pfeiffer, who publishes an e-zine called the Mountain Sentinel which is worth reading.
Greg Palast is no oil man either. Calling supply insecurity of the current magnitude a “scam” is not very intelligent, but I am sure it sells well.
Just like Peak Oil sells well.
Coming back to Ruppert: he used to do valuable reporting based on his background in law enforcement. I feel uncomfortable bashing him now because some of that reporting on the war on drugs was a true eye-opener to me at the time. Somewhere along the way he lost his edge though.
I hope for him that he can get it back and won’t be content with being an ill-informed wild-eyed prophet of doom surrounded by sycophants.
Now about your article: This is one big outpouring of stream-of-consciousness from a certain part of the “conspiracy” spectrum, none of which seems to contain first hand knowledge.

Posted by: Guthman Bey | Sep 7 2006 13:00 utc | 25

Uncle, thanks for link to Roubini’s recent blogging on US housing bust.
A US realtor of my acquaintance had been in touch recently about the logistics of moving to Blighty because the US market is so whacked (in Oregon), and she has no possibility of making a living there. I knew, as we all did, that the bubble-burst was coming, but to see it happening like this is, well, scary.
I wonder how the bubble is going to burst here in the UK. I think the speculative bubble here is even bigger than that in the US, given the extent of our wonderful buy-NOT-to-let sector.
The UK govt is talking about a program of “affordable” house building on account of the abject failure of the market to provide for anyone who is not willing to engage in criminal complicity with lenders for a mortgage ten times salary, but to me it looks like that would pop the bubble here, because all the speculators would start to unload if supply increases.
Kind of intractable. I bet the govt now rues demolishing the rent controls that were in place for much of 20th C here (I reckon house prices would not have risen so high if sich controls had been in place).

Posted by: Dismal Science | Sep 7 2006 14:13 utc | 26

So Blair will leave in 12 month – does this mean an attack on Iran must come before that time?

Posted by: b | Sep 7 2006 16:28 utc | 27

found mike nourse’s classic edit of a bush speech up on youtube – Terror, Iraq, Weapons
or if you want a classic mashup, here’s ronnie & nancy delivering thier important public service announcement on drugs

Posted by: b real | Sep 7 2006 16:29 utc | 28

meh… who cares about secondary crimes of the Bush Crime family: (/snark)
Documents: Feds, City Knew Of Ground Zero Toxins

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 7 2006 19:09 utc | 29

interview w/ daniele ganser, author of NATO’s Secret Armies Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe on the theories surrounding who was behind the sept 11 attacks
le monde diplomatique: False Flag Terrorism
chris floyd: Aid and Comfort: The New Bush-bin Laden Alliance

Bush has never had the slightest intention of catching Osama bin Laden. He needs bin Laden like he needs air or water. Without bin Laden, he is nothing. Without bin Laden, he wouldn’t be a “War President” wielding dictatorial powers over a cowed, confused nation. Without bin Laden — whom Bush has now taken to quoting as an expert on world affairs — the Potomac pipsqueak would be just another failed, one-term president named George Bush, a national joke, a trivia quiz answer, a half-forgotten goober ridiculed for a feckless reign that made Jimmy Carter look like Bismarck. Without bin Laden, Bush never would have had the chance to seal his prejudices and inadequacies in the blood of tens of thousands of innocent people. How could he ever give up bin Laden, who gave him his truest self? Bush is bin Laden, bin Laden is Bush: they gaze at each other lovingly across the smoldering ruins of cities and the festering pits of mass graves, and whisper tenderly one to the other: “You complete me.”

In a land ruled by law and reason, a land where morality had any purchase at all, Bush would be sitting in a jail cell tonight, awaiting trial for high treason, terrorism and conspiracy to commit murder.
Instead, he’ll be prancing around the country, taking out his little bin Laden rag doll and shaking at it the crowds to give them a big scare. But you know that when he goes to bed tonight, he’ll give that little doll a kiss and a hug and snuggle up with it under the covers.

Posted by: b real | Sep 7 2006 19:19 utc | 30

@Bey
Peak Oil also aptly describes in two words an issue with global impact that you describe using this many words:

What is safe to say at this point is that we have a global oil supply problem, because new finds have been few while oil demand has been rising inexorably. We have been drawing down reserves for the last 20 years. That much is established fact.
Ergo: Unless we find a lot of oil through exploration in the coming years, globalism (which is could also be called ‘anti-localism’ or ‘transportism’) should become increasingly uneconomical.
Have we used up half the planet’s recoverable oil?(emphasis mine)

Ruppert has no expertise on the matter at hand. Does anyone here? Do you? I don’t , so I’ll give more weight to the arguments of “smart oil people”, like “Pickens, Simmons, Petrie and Maxwell”. Would Ruppert be more believable if he were less shrill? After all, those “smart oil people” are part of his sycophantic chorus. They do agree with Ruppert, do they not? Isn’t the difference just a matter of when and how emotional each party gets about the subject?
Palast is no oil man, but is skilled in the black arts of the dismal science and has a history of reporting and talking to oil men as well. He argues there are less finds due to less funds being allocated to R&D/exploration, amongst other things. Ya cain’t find what yain’t lookin fer. $10 a barrel oil may make consumers happy, but $70 a barrel makes those that really count, shareholders, nigh orgasmic. The top 20% of personal income own 83% of the total market shares. I didn’t find Palast shrill.
I might consider the messenger, but only because their other views too easily cast doubt on their general credibility and muddy all that they might argue. Ruppert as you point out, Icke for another. The Bushies and the Royals have alien lizard DNA? When pressed, Icke admits to “of course” not having it analyzed. Do they swallow rats whole, Mr. Icke? Not someone I would use as a reference even if he does agree with smart oil people.
As you said, and I’m paraphrasing, “Peak Oil is established fact”. It is. This beautiful blue marble is only so big and holds only so much stuff. Biotic or abiotic, it takes more time to make the stuff than it does for us talking monkeys to use it. For stuff, consider things like cod as well as other things like oil. Any stuff on the marble is made from something else on the marble, excepting the elementals and the odd thing from the aether.
Stuff will run out if nothing is done about present rates of consumption, it is just a matter of when. The inflation of the price of oil makes more of the less profitable oil available to pump. Oil people often qualify their statements with “at the present rate of consumption” which ignores that the rate of consumption trends ever upward. It also ignores that 5% of the world’s population using (conservatively) over 33% of the worlds total resources and having a stated desire to remake the marble in its image is physically incapable for the marble to sustain.
The math doesn’t add up.

Posted by: gmac | Sep 7 2006 19:41 utc | 31

Palast is a left gate-keeper (imho) Ruppert has his gifts and faults (.. the message, and not the messenger, as Uncle Scam said) but is no oil expert.
“Peak oil” – hard to define, beyond the formal “the point at which oil production is the highest and sinks thereafter” leaves its immediate (and actually ongoing) geo-physical, political, societal aspects in the shade. These can be interpreted or seen in various different ways.
Nevertheless it is an irrefutable scientific fact. A very disagreeable one that various actors try to cover up. The timing actually matters little.
The oil industry seeks to continue, so makes optimistic noises; countries like SA have to keep the only card they have there upfront – they will go on providing; Gvmts. and pols want to stay alive as well, bad news and sacrifices are not presentable; ordinary people and flat earthers believe their world is stable, technology will provide, or whatever; thousands of other industries depend on oil and simply refuse to consider it might go outtasight price-wise or become scarce. Very few realise the real stakes and have acted on them.
The energy ‘diversification’ subsidised industry (wind, solar, ethanol from corn) provides both tax-payer cash to scammers and reassurance to everyone. Cheney, amongst others, I am certain, knows this. It is cheap and good PR, for the moment.
On the ground. Example: Who on this board knows a person aged 17 to 30 who plans to be a petroleum geologist?
No-one. (I bet.) Why? Young people know the industry is finished, none would dream of going into such a dead end. Universities have cut courses, oil companies don’t hire (except for manual or low qualif. type labor.) Even oil traders know that the game will change and last for some time only, but as traders, they are flexible.

Posted by: Noirrette | Sep 7 2006 20:17 utc | 32

Gmac: wrong. I used that many words precisely to avoid stating that Peak Oil is an established fact, which it simply isn’t. Noone knows today what deep sea drilling will yield. Death is certain, the Hubbertian Peak Oil curve is not. The uncertain future of uncertainty continues (for now).

Posted by: Guthman Bey | Sep 7 2006 20:28 utc | 33

American Petrocracy
Among the shifting rationales for the war in Iraq, the most plausible motive may be the least discussed: access to oil.
by Kevin Phillips

In sum, the energy-related price of the administration’s dishonesty and massive miscalculation in Iraq ought to be a central discussion point in this election year and again in 2008.

[emphasis added]
see also:
Yes, It’s About Oil, at Greg Palast’s site

Short answer: It’s the oil, stupid.

and
Oil and Iraq, by the Global Policy Forum

The four giant firms located in the US and the UK have been keen to get back into Iraq, from which they were excluded with the nationalization of 1972. During the final years of the Saddam era, they envied companies from France, Russia, China, and elsewhere, who had obtained major contracts. But UN sanctions (kept in place by the US and the UK) kept those contracts inoperable. Since the invasion and occupation of Iraq in 2003, everything has changed and the companies have been scrambling to grab their share of the spoils. In the new setting, with Washington running the show, “friendly” companies expect to gain most of the lucrative oil deals that will be worth hundreds of billions of dollars in profits in the coming decades.

Posted by: manonfyre | Sep 7 2006 22:23 utc | 34

How One Christian Couple Rewrites Textbooks For Whole Country
The great State of Texas
buys textbooks for every public school in the state, unlike most places where local school districts make textbook decisions.
This is why they have Texas Schoolbook Depositories, one of which became infamous. (The Dallas one.)
So if Texas turns down a textbook, there’s no public school in the whole state that can use it. That’s why Texas is so important to the Gablers’ textbook campaign.
Maybe that is part of the reason that Texas is ranked number 49 in public education. Fight it with your local school boards who are still elected officials – unfortunately they were educatd by this sick system.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 7 2006 22:45 utc | 35

@bernhard you’d think. the great imponderable is Gordon Brown was even more of an arselickin globalist corporation lover than the Bliar, but given that he’s had to fight tooth and nail to get his gig with no support, the reverse in fact from Uncle Rupert Murdoch, he may no longer feel as obliged to the pricks as he once was.
One thing is for sure there will have been many promises extracted from Brown by the parliamentary party members who would like to have a career that extends past the general election.
There will be significant domestic demands particularly in regard to the privatization of the public service, but also foreign issues are seen as being vote losers, none more so than the zionist bent that the Bliar put on the Brits, which has really pissed them off. probably a transference as much as anything else. The new role of england as a suitable target for suicide bombers has not been a vote winner, though like anyone else the poms are loathe to admit that they are losing. losing in Iraq and afghanistan so rather than do that they will likely put most of the energy into resisting amerikan israeli policy since that is less likely to be seen as ‘giving into terrorism’ than pulling out of Iraq or the ‘ghan.
If we knew exactly how desperate the corporate imperative for controlling Iranian oil was it would be easier to make a judgement on which way brown will jump.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 8 2006 6:45 utc | 36

Bond, James Bond Anderson Cooper’s CIA Secret
meanwhile, Greg Palast in DHS’s cross-hairs
Yes, the rumor’s true. Greg Palast is facing a criminal complaint from the Department of Homeland Security stemming from his filming the Hurricane Katrina investigation for Link TV and Democracy Now. The film’s producer, Matt Pascarella, is also facing the legal wrath of Big Brother. It
appears the complaint is about filming a sensitive national security site owned by Exxon petroleum. It seems that photographing major Bush donors is now a federal offense.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 8 2006 11:11 utc | 37

@Bey
OK, I’m wrong. For the sake of argument then, and in your inimitable loquacious style, describe what Peak Oil is. I am confused by your description of what it isn’t.
I would say Peak Oil represents the point in our consumption of energy resources at which there is less than half of known reserves remaining. How is that any different from:

“the point at which oil production is the highest and sinks thereafter”

or
“we have a global oil supply problem” as evidenced by “oil finds have been few while oil demand has been rising inexorably.” Include the fact that “We have been drawing down reserves for the last 20 years.” Could this indicate that we have “used up half the planet’s recoverable oil?” “Some very smart oil people like Pickens, Simmons, Petrie and Maxwell think so.”
Peak Oil seems rather easy to define to me. These examples differ only in the matters of specificity and brevity.
Apparently I have thricely described what Peak Oil isn’t.
What is it then?

Posted by: gmac | Sep 8 2006 12:13 utc | 38

Senate approves $469 billion for Pentagon

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 8 2006 14:04 utc | 39

Political NASCAR

Posted by: beq | Sep 8 2006 14:46 utc | 41

credible?

“You’ve got to be lucky to make $4 Billion killing on a 6-month investment of $124 Million”

Posted by: beq | Sep 8 2006 16:39 utc | 42

Today’s P on the P. Page C1:
The Disbelievers

“It’s a much greater stretch to accept the official conspiracy story than to consider the alternatives.”
Such as?
“There was massive complicity in this attack by U.S. government operatives.”

Posted by: beq | Sep 8 2006 18:10 utc | 43

Interesting article beq. It makes anyone that questions the official conspiracy theory seem like a crank. Lite on real facts and plays up the loonier aspects as well as being contradictory. All to further cloud the issue.
On the one hand it states that if the tower is going to go, it will fall straight down. On the other it says the jet fuel sloshed around and heated the supporting steel columns unevenly – some would be much hotter than others and some may not have been very hot at all or even come into contact with the fuel . So which is it? Either the supports gave all at once – near free fall pancake – or they gave unevenly, which would cause the tower to collapse to one side at the point where the steel became weakest like this

Posted by: gmac | Sep 8 2006 18:55 utc | 44

Yes, gmac, and if that’s the building in Madrid, how long did it burn? Days?

Posted by: beq | Sep 8 2006 19:10 utc | 45

you gotta admit though that the article was not bad for the corporate media. granted, the POV was biased, but it didn’t completely make everyone who questions the official conspiracy tale into a nutjob. and it did leave some questions open. no mention of wtc7.
democracynow is going to give the 911 skeptics another airing on monday’s program, pitting one of the guys behind loose change against one of the popular mechanics guys.

Posted by: b real | Sep 8 2006 19:12 utc | 46

Yes, it burned for at least 24hrs and there was collapse, but it was uneven as one would expect because fires do not burn evenly. The steel in the WTC was rated to last a lot longer than it did and for higher temps. But the jet fuel, the jet fuel. Jet fuel is just kerosene and those big fireballs as the planes struck? That is most of the fuel burning off.
Also consider the impact of the planes would severely damage some support columns and thereby weaken the tower in the direction of the most damage while having much lesser impact on the strength of the columns opposite the point of impact.
Any collapse should have been towards the point of impact. The most damaged/weakened supports are near this point as is the concentration of the fuel – it would not be sloshed around evenly. Therefore, it follows that the supports most likely to rubberize are nearest this point. These columns would go first, being unable to support the weight of the upper floors which, in turn, sag towards the point of impact. This puts strain on the opposite columns which also would eventually bend towards that point even if they retained most of their tensile strength.
Considering how the towers fell and the admitted pulling of WTC7 “for safety”, it would seem the towers had help.

Posted by: gmac | Sep 8 2006 20:34 utc | 47

We’re on the same page, gmac. What do the Popular Mechanics [oxymoron?] guys say?

Posted by: beq | Sep 8 2006 22:26 utc | 48

BYU places ‘9/11 truth’ professor on paid leave
“BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones’ work on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues,” the university statement said.
Of course he’s not been published in appropriate scientific journals — self-interest drives the tenured whores who keep the gates. Their own security, comfort, prestige and mortgage payments ensure that heretical thoughts can not take root.
How conveniently circular: the information, and its bearer, are bogus because not published in peer-reviewed journals; not published therein because threatening to the careers of those controlling publication.
The mewling cowardice of our intellectuals and our institutions of “higher learning”. Speaking of Nazis( as Buschco did tues) this is so like the intellectuals in Germany who just caved rather than speak out against the fascists. Someone with a grain of courage and honesty?? Uh-oh…throw him out before our precious grants run out. Well I have news for them…When Bushco finishes off his “job” there won’t be a dime for their “grants” or their “jobs” or even their persistant and unceasing asskissing.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 8 2006 22:44 utc | 49

BYU places ‘9/11 truth’ professor on paid leave
“BYU remains concerned that Dr. Jones’ work on this topic has not been published in appropriate scientific venues,” the university statement said.
Of course he’s not been published in appropriate scientific journals — self-interest drives the tenured whores who keep the gates. Their own security, comfort, prestige and mortgage payments ensure that heretical thoughts can not take root.
How conveniently circular: the information, and its bearer, are bogus because not published in peer-reviewed journals; not published therein because threatening to the careers of those controlling publication.
The mewling cowardice of our intellectuals and our institutions of “higher learning”. Speaking of Nazis( as Buschco did tues) this is so like the intellectuals in Germany who just caved rather than speak out against the fascists. Someone with a grain of courage and honesty?? Uh-oh…throw him out before our precious grants run out. Well I have news for them…When Bushco finishes off his “job” there won’t be a dime for their “grants” or their “jobs” or even their persistant and unceasing asskissing.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 8 2006 22:49 utc | 50

9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply

A recent Scripps Howard/Ohio University poll of 1,010 Americans found that 36 percent suspect the U.S. government promoted the attacks or intentionally sat on its hands. Sixteen percent believe explosives brought down the towers. Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Sep 9 2006 1:31 utc | 51

‘Gaza is a jail. Nobody is allowed to leave. We are all starving now’

The deadly toll
* After the kidnap of Cpl Gilad Shalit by Palestinians on 25 June, Israel launched a massive offensive and blockade of Gaza under the operation name Summer Rains.
* The Gaza Strip’s 1.3 million inhabitants, 33 per cent of whom live in refugee camps, have been under attack for 74 days.
* More than 260 Palestinians, including 64 children and 26 women, have been killed since 25 June. One in five is a child. One Israeli soldier has been killed and 26 have been wounded.
* 1,200 Palestinians have been injured, including up to 60 amputations. A third of victims brought to hospital are children.
* Israeli warplanes have launched more than 250 raids on Gaza, hitting the two power stations and the foreign and Information ministries.
* At least 120 Palestinian structures including houses, workshops and greenhouses have been destroyed and 160 damaged by the Israelis.
* The UN has criticised Israel’s bombing, which has caused an estimated $1.8bn in damage to the electricity grid and leaving more than a million people without regular access to drinking water.
* The Israeli human rights group B’Tselem says 76 Palestinians, including 19 children, were killed by Israeli forces in August alone. Evidence shows at least 53 per cent were not participating in hostilities.
* In the latest outbreak of violence, three Palestinians were killed yesterday when Israeli troops raided a West Bank town in search of a wanted militant. Two of those killed were unarmed, according to witnesses.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Sep 9 2006 2:30 utc | 52

gatemouth brown

Posted by: annie | Sep 9 2006 4:03 utc | 53

Michael Berube
shows us how “hegemony” can make us smart enough to stop messing around with “false consciousness” and why that actually might matter to left politics:

(Remember last month, when I was arguing against Ed Herman’s claim that “on some issues, like “free trade,” and the merits of overseas military ventures [except in the heat of battle and under a furious elite propaganda barrage], the “radical left” is far closer to mainstream opinion than is the “decent left,” and it is listened to on those issues by ordinary citizens when they can be reached”?  This is why.  The argument that The People line up with the radical left “naturally” and are diverted from their true interests only by a furious elite propaganda barrage is not only bad politics; it’s bad theory, the kind that some leftists fall back on to explain to themselves why their followers are so few.)

and this is just one piece in a lovely essay on how Marx is useful to effective activism in the real world, but needs to be thought through, in this case via Raymond Williams.
The whole essay is worthwhile, especially the activist implications it draws out about the difference between alternative politics and oppositional politics. I’m not doing it justice. Read.

Posted by: citizen | Sep 9 2006 5:25 utc | 54

jfl – reality brought home. first thought – how dare i complain about some tv-mocu-drama in the face of such tragedy, but the reality is that it all folds into the rest. as dramatic as it sounds, it seems the time has come to truly fight.

Posted by: conchita | Sep 9 2006 5:29 utc | 55

thanks, citizen. might be exactly what i need right now.

Posted by: conchita | Sep 9 2006 5:31 utc | 56

From Beq’s pejorative Washington Post article (#44):
“Many academics, politicians and thinkers left, right and center say the conspiracy theories are a case of one plus one equals five. It’s a piling up of improbabilities.”
How does a blanket criticism like that also not equally apply to anything we hear during the State of the Union address or something Rumsfeld or Rice might spew when they are finding a new rationale to explain the US presence in the Middle East? It’s true that holes may be poked in the likelihood of what many theorists are saying, but no more so than the the state-sanctioned version of “reality” with its “heroes and villians” worldview.
So, everything else being equal, who is lying? Should we just blindly trust the state players… the same guys who hire PR firms like the Lincoln Group and the Rendon Group to invent comic book romances like “The Thrilling Rescue of Jessica Lynch”… who invent supervillians of convenience who can magically direct world events while fleeing across international borders through a series of caves… or stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction that, like the emperor’s new clothes, can only be seen by really, really smart people?
Who, oh goodness, who can be trusted with all of these “improbabilities” mounting up…? Obviously, we should not trust motiveless conspiracy theorists. They must be deranged, since they have no lucrative reason to peddle the stories they do. No, far better to trust the officials… at least, by and large, we know that when they lie to us, their stories will be consistent, socially responsible and oh, so “probable”.

Posted by: Monolycus | Sep 9 2006 6:10 utc | 57

ah HA!! so that’s where citizen k hangs out. berube interesting.

Posted by: b real | Sep 9 2006 6:36 utc | 58

I think brother k found berube through us.

Posted by: citizen | Sep 9 2006 6:46 utc | 59

Krugman says [not firewalled] inequality is up for grabs in the national discourse funhouse. Good news.
So what do you know about how to help this discussion keeps implying a need for social policies that support economic equality?

Posted by: citizen | Sep 9 2006 7:05 utc | 60

@beq @49
Popular Science has hewed to the official conspiracy theory in the past. The towers are the only buildings of that construction to have fallen like that before or since. There also was a previous fire in one of the towers in the 90’s (not the bombing), I think, that burned longer too. Many here have seen the official video recently released of a 757 streaking into the Pentagon. To me, the jet didn’t appear to represent something 150ft long, 125ft wide and aboot 40ft high.
Pejorative, yes that is the sense I got of that article. That it was disdainful of any questioning of the administration’s conspiracy theory. Yes the article mentioned that some of those with questions have good qualifications, but then it delves only superficially into what the qualified might have to say while playing up the loonies. Thus associating questioning the admin’s conspiracy theory with wearing tin foil as a fashion accessory.
The admin would have us believe their set of improbabilities which, when facts are examined, become ever more improbable.
Conspiracy Theory now has a pejorative connotation due to association with folk that might also espouse alien lizard DNA theories. What is a conspiracy? Two buddies plan to knock over a bank. That is a conspiracy. Two secret lovers planning a Strangers on a Train is a conspiracy as is 15 Saudis and four assorted fanatics having done 9/11 just as Chimpy says.
A theory is saying these two cousins robbed that bank or we suspect those two to be lovers and each offed the others spouse or 19 fanatics pulled off 9/11.
One would then investigate to compile facts to support the theory and win a conviction.
Many aspects of 9/11 do not jive with facts and the official investigation was hardly thorough.
Some other qualified fella did some math and found that a tower pancaking as we saw, would not fall that fast assuming the conspiracy theory touted by the admin. The resistance of the steel columns below the point of impact would slow and stop, I think, the downward fall and shear it off.
Would an impact on the 83rd floor have any impact on the tensile strength of the steel columns at the 60th floor a couple of hundred feet away. The 40th or 30th? I doubt it, yet the whole things just seemed to drop…

Posted by: gmac | Sep 9 2006 14:42 utc | 61

A tip of my hat to Hyun-shik, who handed me a copy of this video. I haven’t watched it yet (haven’t sobered up yet), but Hyun was impressed enough to burn several copies to hand out to his regulars.
9/11 conspiracy theory is still a pretty novel idea in these parts… just for giggles, picture in your head a drunken Wolfie taking a half hour to explain LIHOP and MIHOP to someone who speaks English as a second language. Wacky fun.

Posted by: Monolycus | Sep 9 2006 19:33 utc | 63

A movie that everyone should see, Monolycus, just like they say. I ordered and received a copy several months ago.
One thing you can say about the Post article is that it will make people think. It brings the subject out in the open. It’s a good starting place for a lot of people.

Posted by: beq | Sep 9 2006 21:09 utc | 64

beq- exactly. most everyone here seems to apply a healthy skepticism to our corporate media’s reporting. why would we not assume that a good portion of the rest of wapo readers have learned to do the same? gotta give the public some credit for not just being uncritical of all input they receive & mindlessly buying into the spin put into an article such as this. as you say, the wapo article brings the subject into the open and actually is not as bad as many previous hatchet jobs. sure, there will be those readers who look at the article & say ‘hey, good enough for me’, but for those who read critically and between the lines, it may very well raise more questions than it answers.

Posted by: b real | Sep 10 2006 2:11 utc | 65

Yes, b real. I watched “Loose Change” again this evening and my jaws have been clenched since. So many questions.

Posted by: beq | Sep 10 2006 2:47 utc | 66

beq & b real
The WaPo article did nothing for me as I think it would for anyone already reading between the lines and thinking critically. Anyone with these skills would long have been questioning the official conspiracy theory as we in here have. No new questions were raised for me due to this article. Were there any raised for you?
Most everyone here? We’re the exception to the rest of the great grey mass. To give you some idea of what I mean, some quotes from co-workers:
We don’t need unions anymore, we’ve progressed
I don’t believe in self determination
Nostradamus predicted 9/11 (and the recent plane plot as I saw this AM)
School of the Americas – laughter
The CIA did what in Iran in 1953 – laughter
The towers were designed to fall that way
Mussolini has nothing relevant to say about fascism, he was a thug.
A description of the total available land surface area (a known finite amount) in relation to human population (also a known expanding amount) was described as ‘philosophy’
I could go on. These people attended the same critical thinking seminar I did (attendance was mandatory). Ask anyone of them about the latest sureality show though and look out, the facts about the program tumble effortlessly from their yaps.
Remember last year an Air France jet slammed into the runway at Toronto, slid off into a gully and broke – without any loss of life? The next day, Global news ran a story proclaiming it to be a miracle and it was structured like this WaPo story – play up the woowoo aspect while giving the rational the short shrift.
I hope you’re right, but my experience tells me otherwise.

Posted by: gmac | Sep 10 2006 13:21 utc | 67

gmac- i do not expect wapo to ever cover this issue in the manner that an authentic journalism would require (it’s a little late to begin now), so i start from the position that I am not their targeted audience & was basing my evaluation from that view. sure, as carlin says, there are a lot of stupid mf’ers out there, but that’s not the group i’m thinking of. people who can’t think for themselves make lousy jurists, so we don’t really want them on our side anyway. but there are still people out there that do think & do share a healthy skepticism of what their govt tells them. and there are undoubtedly readers of wapo who have not time on the web researching the topic yet can spot contradictions – as you point out – and, reading this particular article, might become aware that there are more than just fringe whacko’s w/ too much time on their hands espousing open skepticism of the official conspiracy story and that, therefore, more info may be suppressed than the corporate media coverage is providing. a distinguished theologian? ex-admin staffers? professors? it just may make some readers go hmmmm enough to seek out more information and, hence, further diminish the marginalization of alternative theories.

Posted by: b real | Sep 11 2006 2:52 utc | 68

@ gmac – What b real said. The same goes for my co-workers, one of which a couple of years ago, when I said, “Bin Laden didn’t do 9-11” actually, literally put his hands over his ears and said, “No, No, No, I’m not listening” as he almost ran away.
Intelligent and well educated, a structural engineer, in fact. He will listen eventually if the Post et al. gives him at least some credible information. No, there were no new questions raised for me although I hadn’t heard the full story on Silverstein (#43 link). I just found it interesting that the Post covered it at all. A huge step, imo.

Posted by: beq | Sep 11 2006 11:55 utc | 69

Also wondering if the “great grey mass” may not need the emotional detachment that time will provide. And with everything else coming apart at the seams, maybe it will be sooner rather than later.

Posted by: beq | Sep 11 2006 12:13 utc | 70