Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 7, 2006
They Have already Been Raptured

by anna missed
lifted from a comment

Like the joke I heard by some redneck comedian, that went something
like: "My grandmother has a bumpersticker on her car that says "God Is
My Copilot". And it made me wonder how it was, that the creater of the
universe has enough spare time on his hands to ride along with grandma
to the Wal-Mart store to pick up her stool-softeners"

Because these people, in one sense have already been raptured, at least from the reality I am familiar with. You can see them standing there, but they’re already
gone. In some ways, its a testament to their faith, a way of showing
their faith — to being gone, already. The more factual information
presented, in fact, the less chance of them believing it. Its a
war of facts against faith, and facts are always seeking to undermine
and destroy faith, and when religion is fused with politics, policy
becomes scripture, patriotism becomes piety, and the president becomes
god-like.

But, to be sure, this transference is not in any way humble or
deeply spiritual, or else they might be agitating for an Amish or a
Shaker way about things. No, this transference is born within the
strictly american ethos of exceptionalism, and manifests itself as a
kind of temporal, ever faster NAS-CAR culture, indian casino, winner
takes all, me, me, me, go for the gold — hyper-sanctimonity. And
because such a culture is so fundamentally unsustainable in
every, reality based detail, it must draw upon such a  hyper-sanctimonious notion of faith to keep it afloat. In this sense,
they are correct in assuming that, at this point, it is their only
hope in forstalling the near, total collapse of their faith based
reality. A sad case of life, immitating art, or at least the black
velvet version of it.

Comments

You are right. They are already gone. On some level they truly are waiting to be put down.

Posted by: Guthman Bey | Aug 7 2006 21:32 utc | 1

“If God created us in his own image, we have more than reciprocated”

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 7 2006 21:46 utc | 2

Addendum:
faith seems less about the joyful worship of God in a community of believers, than it is about forcing a structure on both the world and his own life without the risks inherent in a genuine attempt to understand either one.
“I think God is a sadist — and He probably doesn’t know it.”
~James Coburn in Cross of Iron

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 7 2006 21:51 utc | 3

Perhaps too much is read into a sticker. Perhaps that elderly lady that is driving to Wal Mart remembers a movie made in 1945 with the catchy title” God is my Co Pilot” I remember I saw it but I remember nothing about it. Perhaps there is a little bit of sarcasm in having God as your co driver since we know how driving skills dull with age.Would “Dialectics is my co pilot” be more chic?

Posted by: JLCG | Aug 7 2006 21:55 utc | 4

Yes they have

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 7 2006 22:02 utc | 5

Uh…
Holy Shrimp: Man Sees Jesus In Dinner heh? I thought it was bozo, er, Bono. Same difference eh? The jesus of the world Bank…haha…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 7 2006 22:10 utc | 6

so jesus wore sunglasses, eh. who knew? and what’s the deal w/ laying the “holy” tail on a buncha rocks for a photo session?

Posted by: b real | Aug 7 2006 22:18 utc | 7

btw, i cracked open an oyster once & saw the visage of buck dharma. scared the hell outta me, so i threw it back.

Posted by: b real | Aug 7 2006 22:20 utc | 8

…too many heavy metals in our oceans

Posted by: b real | Aug 7 2006 22:24 utc | 9

I read that to fast, I thought you sd, Buck Owens… …

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 7 2006 22:25 utc | 10

Holy Shrimp: Man Sees Jesus In Dinner
Sounds like a Red Lobster promo: “Unlimited Luau Shrimp AND your personal salvation guaranteed. All for just $9.99.”
Homer Simpson: Mmmmmmm. Salvation . . .

Posted by: billmon | Aug 7 2006 22:27 utc | 11

Thanks billmon for opening up this topic. Actually, it can be quite enlightening for all involved.
Principle: reason from grounds accepted by your listeners.
One of the best ways to simultaneously assist and throw off a Rapturist is to point out to them that Jesus Christ himself foretold that the rapture would happen within the life span of people who had actually met him in life. That would make the Rapture a historical event that happened about 1,900 years ago, and all of us are living through the rough times that follow . Three of the four gospels record it – for example, Mark 9:1
“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
Sorry folks, the rapturing already happened about 19 centuries ago, and your duty is not to make the bad times come sooner, but to try and make the best of it. Jesus said so.

Posted by: citizen | Aug 7 2006 22:54 utc | 12

Put’s new meaning into “Scared Straight” and other juvenile awareness programs eh? Religious Nut saying Harry Potter should be put to death. oh, and do not miss this one:
Kenneth Hagin & Kenneth Copeland – Pentecostal Bedlam drunk on da lord!
Good Lord…geez…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 7 2006 22:56 utc | 13

oops, i mean thanks animist.

Posted by: citizen | Aug 7 2006 22:56 utc | 14

My acquaintance with Rapturees is purely textual.
From that distance, I see them as very different from members of sects that predict their own or humankind’s annihilation some time in the future, prophecies that are sometimes fulfilled with murder/suicide, sometimes not realised, to the puzzlement of members. I’m thinking of sects like the Temple du Soleil, Jo di Mambro, that stuff.
I tend to see Rapturees as espousing a religious version of Peak Oil, Peak Mayhem (global warming, death of crops) and Total War, Civil Strife, without being specifically aware of the different dimensions and possible causes of their felt present existential predicament.
These feelings of doom and anguish are assuaged with submission, hero worship (Bush, leaders) and projected aggression – cataclysms not of their making will somehow put things to right, and any attack, such as that on Lebanon today, is part of a grander, global design, beyond critical questioning of any kind.
They have removed themselves from the scene. And yet, their response is political, or quasi-political, and the removal has something canny and temporary about it. It is a holding action. They throw their lot in – that they do – and are seemingly content to let the chips fall where they may.
The rapture is such a nebulous, uncertain event, that it serves any purpose, or no specific purpose at all. I’m supposing these people go about their daily lives in the ordinary way, making multiple plans for the future, such as buying life insurance, planning the 25th wedding anniversary….
The seeming rigidity or literalness of their belief somehow affirms its lack of relevance, and creates a double ‘reality’ where the two parts are unconnected. In that, they are not very different from other Americans with different mind sets. (I know a man who plans to defend his family in the wilderness of Maine when the shit comes down, as he says, but he has just taken out a big mortgage…etc…)
I see these disconnects as extremely dangerous. And for once, as specifically, in the first world, American.
Just one pov. Like to hear more.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 7 2006 23:41 utc | 15

Rapturists come in two basic flavors — poison and mild.
The vast majority are mild-flavored, in that they believe the concept, sure, but they go on with life. It’ll happen when it happens . . . meanwhile how ’bout them Jets?
The poison flavor are the rabid evangelicals and Dominionists, who cannot bear that other citizens walk around with other world views than good old Darbyism.
I call them poison because that is what they accomplish — the poisoning of other lives (beginning with their children), the poisoning of public spheres like education, local and State and Federal government, the poisoning of social and community affairs and endeavors, and nowadays even international relations (Middle East) and our own Air Force Academy.
It’s like making a big pot of stew for the American family, and certain people keep walking over and dropping fennel in the pot. Every meal, every dish, every day. After a while, everyone asks, “Why in hell does everything have to taste like goddamned fennel around here?”
At which point the mild Rapturists will all say they LIKE fennel, right on cue.
The only cure is to make the Darbyists put up or shut up — but how to prove or disprove a concept so shapeless and silly as Rapture? It has no date, no state, no start or finish, no proof of any kind. It is, in short, the purest conjecture and hearsay.
And it’s in the stew, every day. These assholes vote.

Posted by: Antifa | Aug 8 2006 0:15 utc | 16

thx antifa. Yes they vote, that is the point. But couldn’t they be easily persuaded to vote differently? The next question is, why more propaganda, persuasion, fakey emotional ads, etc.? It then all begins to look so Orwellian an utlimately useless.

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 8 2006 0:39 utc | 17

So now peakniks are being equated with rapturists?

Posted by: gylangirl | Aug 8 2006 0:46 utc | 18

b,
btw, i cracked open an oyster once & saw the visage of buck dharma. scared the hell outta me, so i threw it back.
“Don’t Fear the Reaper” could certainly be the Rapturists’ theme song.
But if you really want to see creepy, suburban cultists with a death wish, check out “Joan Crawford“.
Beware though, this is perhaps the worst music video ever made.

Posted by: Night Owl | Aug 8 2006 1:43 utc | 19

@gylangirl et all
Peakniks in my pov,tend to be realists, numbercrunchers,able to see the multiple realities of the true political systems in the world,and which governments are able to bend their will to garnering resources.
Siberia is out of bounds now,but watch Africa.
However,the point I’m making is that the same doom and gloom scenarios the the realistic scientists and numbercrunchers are putting about are the same scenarios that the end of timers are talking about. Yet,they villify each other(well, the scientists do not villify the end of timers as much as simply ignoring them as irrelevant.)
What I find interesting is the fact that hard science and hard religion come to the same conclusion, and call each other wrong.

Posted by: possum | Aug 8 2006 2:37 utc | 20

It’s late and I really do not want to do this so we’ll ask you bear with the typos. I’m tired and I just found this remarkable thread here.

The rapture mentality in America has been associated with the establishment of Israel in 1948. That was the sign, Luke 21:29-30, the flowering of the fig tree (a symbol for Israel) is a sign of the end and the second coming. A host of book, all bad, since Hal Lindsay’s Late Great Planet Earth lit a fire in the emerging Jesus movement of the 1970’s that lent it a true apocalyptic fever. add to this the continual risk of nuclear war and the expectation of the near time of the end became foundational in Pentecostals, Evangelicals and Fundamentalists and to a lesser extent, the Catholic Charismatic movement.

But throughout the the 1970’s, this movement, despite the frequent appearances of Billy Graham with Nixon and Ford was primarily apolitical. The message was Christ and him crucified and in many cases a radical distrust of the “world”. It was apolitical, with Democrats rejected for their liberalism, pro-abortion stance, and pro-education platform. “Secular humanism and Communism” were the enimies. But neither did these Christian embrace the Republican party, with its cold fish corporate elitism, immense wealth and corporate amorality and their reputation for pragmatism and agnosticism. All these identified both parties with being of the world and the big issue many of these Christians felt was whether they should vote at all. Many felt that their faith would be compromised if they became politically active or ran for office. To guard against the seduction of the world was a key goal. Many joked when a candidate for either party claimed to be a christina becuase the Christians of this movement and period were usually savvy enough to know that the key elements of their faith would have to be compromised to be a success in Washington. But this was to change.

It started in the late 1970’s and the early 1980’s, both with the first advent of Falwell’s “Moral Majority” and the election of Ronald Reagan. Perhaps it was Lee Atwater, perhaps it was simply a situation the evolved from the emerging power when leaders of a revival that has lasted a decade realized that controlling a large number of people equaled power, maybe it was now that the money and influence Sun Myung Moon began to assert its seduction in Christian leadership. But it appears that several movements and events developed simultaneously and it changed the face of American Christiainty.

First many individual in the Catholic Charismatic movement left the Catholic Church and join or started independent Pentecostal and Charismatic churches. They brought with them a loud tradition of anti-abortion activism that was now coupled with charismatic prophetic rleigion. Traditional Pentecostal churches had little interest in the issue, but with the numbers of new Charisimatic churches and the advent of a number of parachurch organizations, it slowly became more central issue.

At the same time, a movement swept across churches all over the United states from Oklahoma and Texas. This was the start of the popularization of the health and wealth gospel, a large auxillary church movement that preached that God wanted Christians to be healthy and wealthy and the lack, poverty, and sickness were a curse from Satan that can be overcome by faith in key Scripture Verses expressed vocally and frequently (also called confession faith). this caught the interest of politcal conservative as wealth tended to resonate with their values. Parachurch organizations began having large inter-church meetings by the mid-1980’s full of celebrities and high ranking military retirees claiming conversion. In one meeting I attended, just to give you the variety of people attending, I ran into Pat Boone, Debbie Boone, Richard Kiel (Jaws from James Bond) John DeLorean, Gen. Merle Allender, Tonto, Buffalo Bill’s Grandson, Dale Evans and more.

The next development was the advent of the Megachurch, starting in Oklahome, Texas and Florida. Many of these and their imitations fell apart, but they continue to be a major feature. Church of 4,000 were common by the late 70’s, and frew even stronger into the 80’s. Now some of these church claim memberships in the tens of thousands and have created a cradle to grave experience for believers with everything from pre-schools to universities to profesional associations. the money these churches can raise in a week is staggering.

Finally, another development was the intentional steering this diverse movement into the arms of ultraright conservatism. This started in the early years of Reagan’s first term and was both deliberate and calculated to politicize the church. I remember my first experience with this very well.

I was young and a member of a Jesus Movement church (think hippies) whose main mission was to help local junkies kick heroin and preach to young people. But it was a sincere group. It started as a home church in my parents house, grew to require the rental of an second floor office in a bad part of town, and finally, we rented space for 300 people to worship at Yale University. For several years, it was the most remarkable group I ever participated in. It was quite diverse: Blacks, hispanics, lesbian, homosexuals and street people came every week. But there were also blue collar workers, professionals, college students, medical students who worshipped together and had a sense of community I have never experienced since. I am not being completely nostalgic. There were many problems in this church. It was doctrinally naive, the leaders were young and uneducated, and focus of the message kept changing, mainly due to the pastor’s immaturity and youth.

But in 1982, the pastor was invited to a Ronald Reagan Prayer Breakfast, something that flattered him immensely. He went. when he returned, the church was turned upside down. His next sermon mentioned “Satan’s Liberal Welfare State,” the evils of the “radical hairy legged lesbo-feminist of the Democratic Party,” calls for the judgement of God upon homosexuals and the wrath of the Jesus church against lazy people who did not work and ripped off honest taxpayer by being poor and on welfare.” The church changed. the non-white, non-rich, non-straight, and non-loyal (myself) left or were humiliated and driven off (someday I’ll tell you about my personal five hour degregation ceremony). The church and many like it made a sharp turn to the right, ready to purge America of sinners and homosexuals and evil abortion doctors and liberal secular humanists. My world was shattered.

I rarely share with anyone the torment of the next few years, the inner doubts, the depression, the tension (this was my family’s church and they split apart, many not talking to one another for years). Three churches later, a good pastor spent a long time with me and began to help me find those parts of myself I long suppressed. I ended up going back to school in my early 30’s a double major in history and theology with a concentration in linguistics. I excelled. I then went to grad school and continued in Roman Social History and Early Church History. I’m now a decade post doc, tenured at a sane secular school! I could have gone to Yale, but I had nothing but painful memories in New Haven.

I keep most of this to myself in my new life. I attend a happy church of the religious left and have peace. And I spend much of my time looking at the phenomenom of the politically hijacking of the church by the ultrarightist. It is a fascinating story. This is only a very brief synopsis, but I thought I’d share this small bit of it. But I’m tired, its last call at the bar, and I’m slugging one down and hitting the sheets. Every try a Rum and Moxie?

Posted by: Diogenes | Aug 8 2006 3:58 utc | 21

Hey. this Moxie and Rum IS pretty good! And remember: I warned you of the typos!

Posted by: Diogenes | Aug 8 2006 4:02 utc | 22

Thanks for sharing that Diogenes.

Posted by: b | Aug 8 2006 5:02 utc | 23

“That would make the Rapture a historical event that happened about 1,900 years ago, and all of us are living through the rough times that follow . Three of the four gospels record it – for example, Mark 9:1”
Posted by: citizen | Aug 7, 2006 6:54:39 PM | 12
That’s when ‘up in heaven’ was always ‘up’ because the world was flat.

Posted by: pb | Aug 8 2006 6:27 utc | 24

Don’t forget that wealth is an outward sign of inner grace. Which, unfortunately, makes the Saudis pretty damn gracious…

Posted by: ralphieboy | Aug 8 2006 8:27 utc | 25

Hey Diogenes, in Moxie veritas. Your experience is interesting, you said that “three churches later” a sypathetic pastor helped you “find those parts of myself I long suppressed.”
Then academic success, history and theology and liguistics and “Roman Social History and Early Church History.”
I wish I could ask an educated question about your areas of specialization but all I can come up with is “why not geography as well?” I guess history covers that one …
But I have a genuine request. I was raised in the Catholic system, church on Sunday, Catholic school, some theology and lots of ritual and participation (read going across the parking lot from the school to the church at least once a week or so, many more times during Easter); and although I don’t discuss it or really participate much the experience opened my eyes to wonder and forever I have a tremendous love of the smell of incense.
I don’t harbor resentments of the upbringing, it was good and interesting and I was able to break away cleanly when the rules imposed became untenable. Yes, I had issues but as a skeptically minded soul I was prepared to leave the church after I passed the final ritual of confirmation.
Anyway, can you help us out with the division between the posters of faith and those who are committed atheists. I am thinking about “nothing good came of religion, all wars were fought over religion” and “religion is the opiate of the masses …”
I cringe when I hear people I respect showing contempt for religion, I think it is a positive force because of my benign experience. I haven’t experienced the fanatical.
Can you help out here.

Posted by: jonku | Aug 8 2006 10:04 utc | 26

Thank you, Diogenes, for the great exposition on the evolution of the Rapturists, as well as your personal experience with it. Please forgive me, but I lifted the entire thing as a post at my place. My father, who comments over there as “Hawk,” has a very similar story to yours and I’m hoping to get an extensive response from him.

Posted by: Michael Hawkins | Aug 8 2006 13:01 utc | 27

“nothing good came of religion” – some good has resulted, some bad; with the bad far outweighing the good.
“all wars were fought over religion” – not so, but were fought USING religion – along with patriotism, nationalism, ethinicity, fear, oh and a catalyzing event – as the “simple matter to drag the people along”.
“religion is the opiate of the masses …” – truth hurts eh?
“I haven’t experienced the fanatical.” – for a taste, follow the links kindly provided by Uncle $cam @13 above and remember Harper is an evangelical whose church has a vision for Canada and his Foreign Minister walks with dinosaurs

Posted by: gmac | Aug 8 2006 14:01 utc | 28

Well, to put it simply, both Rapture and “God gives wealth and health to those he favors” are pure unadulterated bullshit and smells of heresy of the highest rank, both for Catholic and Protestant flavors of the Christian faith.
That any person considering itself a serious Christian can gives any credence to Rapture just boggles my mind, because I have yet to read one sentence in the whole bible that would imply that.
By the way, I’m quite amazed as well at the asolute conviction of many self-claimed Christians that the King James version is the ultimate reference, as if it was God’s direct words. Do these guys are stupid enough not to know the original was in Hebrew and Greek?

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Aug 8 2006 14:37 utc | 29

Thanks Diogenes,
yes please share first-hand stories from the Belly of the Beast.

Posted by: Guthman Bey | Aug 8 2006 14:45 utc | 30

Diogenes, thank you.
gyland girl, what possum said… one brand of peak-ist, the doomsayers or catastrophists make predictions and have attitudes that are similar to the Rapturists’. They see a quick meltdown, provoked by an economic crash, the result of war, where the whole of the US comes to a standstill and reverts to savagery, rife with roaming bands with guns, and other violence and nastiness. They stress that starvation will kill a large % of the pop, with disease taking care of the rest. Their calculations are rational if anything can be called rational in such a hypothetical situation. They are keen on positive feedback loops, and see one dysfunction fueling another. They adhere to an individualist survivalist doctrine, and are preparing for the crash in a methodical way, looking forward to building a new society without fossil fuels. They will be the saved, their children will survive. There are boards devoted to the why and how-to of all this – forgotten the names for the mo. Some of their ideas are quite clever, exploiting modern technology and returning to traditional society, etc. A new Wild West!

Posted by: Noirette | Aug 8 2006 15:19 utc | 31

So, Diogenes (honestly) is Moxie and Rum and upgrade from sherry?
I always enjoy your posts. I bookmarked the first one. Thanks for telling and give us some more.

Posted by: beq | Aug 8 2006 15:31 utc | 32

are there any examples of these extremes in apocalyptic thinking (ie., rapturists, millenarians, peak oil survivalists, etc) occuring in other than melanin-deficient populations? jonestown comes to mind, but then founder jim was a certified whitefella…

Posted by: b real | Aug 8 2006 15:43 utc | 33

b real, I don’t know if they are part of the rapture bunch, but a whole group of S. Korean Christians who turned up in Afghanistan a week or so ago were rounded up and escorted out of the country. It may have just been missionary zeal, though.

Posted by: Ensley | Aug 8 2006 15:59 utc | 34

thanks diogenes. hopefully more and more people will come forward and testify to their experience during this shift of gop influence in the church and the effects it had on their religion.
it’s worth checking out michael #7’s dad’s comments over on Spontaneous Arising . picked up this excellent galloway speech from last saturday while i was there. (scroll down, it’s after the newscast)

Posted by: annie | Aug 8 2006 16:24 utc | 35

@ noirette,
the description reminds me of the sci fi futuristic movies MAd Max, Waterworld, the Postman….
Seriously, tho, what if they’re right?
The rapturists have more in common with the scoffers of peak oil. I mean the rapturists believe faith in their god will save them. Those who pooh-pooh the peakniks also rely on faith in their own consumerist god of eternal economic progress: Mammon will provide the technofix, blessed be the eternal profits.

Posted by: gylangirl | Aug 8 2006 16:24 utc | 36

@noirette,
By the way, the peakniks that I read on the net believe that individual survivalist attitudes will prove futile in the post carbon age. Instead, they advocate local community preparation via re-localization of economies. They point to alternative local currencies, powering down gradually, and local community plans to spread food production as methods of avoiding the worst case scenarios.
By contrast, rapturists don’t plan to divert future history away from their worst case scenario. They attempt to influence events in order to bring on the worst case scenario in order to fulfill the deadly prophecy.

Posted by: gylangirl | Aug 8 2006 16:43 utc | 37

I appreciate your comments from my long posting last night. I’ll try to get to some of the questions.

I was also raised a Catholic until my 17th year and still miss frankincense. I am old enough to remember the Baltimore Catechism and young enough to remember the institution of Vatican II.

As as the faith being a force for both good and evil in the world, that has puzzled me for decades. I recent have read two massive tomes to prepare for a class on church history and wonder if the early church was ever a unified force for social good. In the first century they were silent about slavery and other social issue and far more interested in the Second Coming just like our U.S. rapturites today. The passage in the New Testament, King James or any other, is in I Thessalonians 4:13-18. The term rapture comes from the Greek word harpagesometha which literally means “we will be caught up,” with caught up = rapture. By the second century the church adopted gender roles that would make the ideals of the faith compatible with that of world view of the Romans toward a respectable family. Now the idea of the immediacy of Christ’s return in on the back burner. By the third and fourth they spend years arguing as to the nature of God and the nature of Christ. The Roman Bishop was building up the claim to dominance over the other Christian centers and the Eastern church was developing the idea of Caesaropapism, making their eastern Emperor head of the church (which makes heresy equal to treason). Christian Asceticism developed into a number of formal institutions, substituting the slow death of self denial for the fast death of martyrdom now that being a Christian is a ticket for promotion rather than the arena. By the 5th this continued in full force as the church also developed its first polemical sermons about homosexuality, especially lesbianism and eventually outlawed the traditional Greco-Roman religions as well of those of their own faith who theology didn’t support the massive church-state system that evolved, especially in the east. My God what fun! The first Christian to be put to death by another due to doctrinal difference was Priscillian, an Encratite, in 385.

I think that within 300 years after the Crucifixion, Jesus would not have recognized that now mainly gentile religion at all. It has syncretized with Greco-Roman philosophy, eastern Rome’s state-religion ideology, Buddhist and Hindu Asceticism, and various eastern mystery cults, and the church hated Jews with a passion that would make Hezbollah blush. It has reformed and reinvented itself in every culture it permeates and every generation it survives.

Saying that, I have found good, great good, in many Christians and in many churches, but that does not rule out even the best turning into the worse when manipulated by politicians or seduced by the promise of temporal power. I am constantly reminded of the parable of the tares in Matthew 13: 24-30;37-43, except with that the religious right, I’ve seen mostly weeds and very little wheat and way too much of Sun Myung Moon!

As for Moxie and Rum. Mate, It works, even with diet Moxie!

Posted by: Diogenes | Aug 8 2006 19:19 utc | 38

Thanks, Diogenes for these posts.
My Catholic upbringing has occasionally proved useful for duelling bible quotes against right wingnut fundies. And I was attracted to the mysticism. But in the end I did leave the church for a more positive and egalitarian christian congregation.
“Lord, I am not worthy to recieve You”: how sick is that?!
The books that really rocked my perspective were: ‘Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven’, ‘The Gospel of Q’, and ‘The Chalice and the Blade’.
Now I see the initial Jesus phenomena as another form of “the perennial philosophy” [treat others as you would have them treat you]: one that inevitably got its teeth kicked in by the power- hungry hijackers of Peter and Paul and their Judaic-style brainchild, the authoritarian priestly caste system. The protestant fundies are the poor imitators of the Vatican poseurs.

Posted by: gylangirl | Aug 8 2006 20:32 utc | 39

Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism

Over the past months, the White House has convened a series of off-the-record meetings about its policies in the Middle East with leaders of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a newly formed political organization that tells its members that supporting Israel’s expansionist policies is “a biblical imperative.” CUFI’s Washington lobbyist, David Brog, told me that during the meetings, CUFI representatives pressed White House officials to adopt a more confrontational posture toward Iran, refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand as it ramped up its military conflict with Hezbollah.
clip
Hagee recently united America’s largest Christian Zionist congregations and some of the movement’s most prominent figures–including the Rev. Jerry Falwell, Gary Bauer and Rod Parsley, an Ohio preacher instrumental in launching Republican Ken Blackwell’s gubernatorial campaign–under the banner of CUFI, creating the first and only nationwide evangelical political organization dedicated to supporting Israel. Hagee says he would like to see CUFI become “the Christian version of AIPAC,” referring to the vaunted pro-Israel group rated second only to the National Rifle Association as the most effective lobby in Washington.

Posted by: annie | Aug 8 2006 23:26 utc | 40

Christus = Krishna = Gauthama = Osiris = Mithras
Some renegade rabbis pasted this myth onto the Hebrew scriptures and the Pontifex Maximus in Rome said:”OK. Just as well…”
That was the easy part.
Getting everybody and his brother to believe in the historicity of all this…
That must have been a hard slog.

Posted by: Guthman Bey | Aug 8 2006 23:40 utc | 41

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