Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 26, 2006
Weird but Real

This is weird but very, very real:

With America watching, Israel needs a knockout

But even if Hizbullah does not at this time pose an existential threat to the country – Hizbullah will not throw us into the sea — Israel needs to win this war, and deliver a punishing blow to Hizbullah, for another key reason: to preserve our status as a key strategic US ally.

Beyond all the talk about how the US supports Israel because it is the only democracy in the Middle East, and because of shared values, the US supports Israel because it sees Israel as an important component of its own national security dogma, an American bridgehead in a region hostile to the US.

As such, Washington is watching to see how we do. The US wants to see Hizbullah weakened badly; it wants to see Damascus weakened badly; it wants to see Iran suffer the loss of a key proxy. This is in their interest. This will help their own efforts in Iraq.

A democratic Lebanon, something impossible with a strong Hizbullah and Syrian meddling, will enhance the American status in the region, a status that is declining with each passing Iraqi day.

It’s a safe bet to assume that in Washington they are watching very carefully how this war is going, and whether Israel is able to deliver the knockout punch to Hizbullah that the US wants to see delivered. Washington is watching and judging Israel, to see how effective a strategic asset Israel really is.

Added: Abu Aadvark

Real American leadership, such as quickly restraining the Israeli offensive and taking the lead in ceasefire negotiations, could have created a Suez moment and dramatically increased American influence and prestige (especially if the Saudis had delivered Iran in a ceasefire agreement, as I’ve heard that Saudi officials believed that they could).  But by disappearing for the first days of the war and then resurfacing only to provide a megaphone for Israeli arguments and to prevent international efforts at achieving a ceasefire, the Bush administration put America at the center of the storm of blame.   I think that the Lebanon war will go down in history as one of the greatest missed opportunities in recent American diplomatic history – not because we failed to go after Iran, or whatever the bobbleheads are ranting about these days, but because we failed to rise to the occasion and exercise real global leadership in the national interest.

Comments

In light of the fact that Israel has destroyed most of the infrastructure in Lebanon, rendered nearly a quarter of its citizens homeless, and shows no sign of stopping the killing and destruction, I find the following comment most curious…

A democratic Lebanon, something impossible with a strong Hizbullah and Syrian meddling, will enhance the American status in the region, a status that is declining with each passing Iraqi day

Sometimes I think either those guys or I am on LSD. How can we possibly have such differing views of reality?

Posted by: dan of steele | Jul 26 2006 21:03 utc | 1

It may be wrong, but I don’t think it’s especially weird. In fact it’s closer to reality than most Israeli propaganda, which paints the Jewish state as America’s only “democratic friend” in the region. This guy at least understands that Israel’s real relationship with the USA is as of owner to pit bull, although it’s not always clear which is which.
And I think the first part of this paragraph IS true:
“The US wants to see Hizbullah weakened badly; it wants to see Damascus weakened badly; it wants to see Iran suffer the loss of a key proxy. This is in their interest. This will help their own efforts in Iraq.”
Of course, it WON’T actually help — at this point nothing will. And it’s only in America’s interest because the neocons marched us off the cliff of folly in the first place. But this does seem to be in some sense a desperate attempt to redress the huge strategic advantage that Iran gains from US failure in Iraq. Flight forward, etc.

Posted by: billmon | Jul 26 2006 21:05 utc | 2

bush’s henchmen forget the most obvious truth that as reinhard heydrich learnt, hangmen also die

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 26 2006 21:20 utc | 3

billmon: “But this does seem to be in some sense a desperate attempt to redress the huge strategic advantage that Iran gains from US failure in Iraq. Flight forward, etc.”
Does this then imply a probable widening of the war, with bombing of Syria and possibly Iran? Is the real Israeli (and U.S.) problem the widening Shia power base in the Middle East and not really Hizbolla in Lebanon? The bombing in Lebanon is almost always in Shiite areas – are (or should I say “were”) Shia and Hizbolla synominous in Lebanon? Is the genocide factor the reason we are not being told the truth about casualties in Lebanon?
I truly thank you Billmon for all your great writing and thoughts.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 26 2006 21:40 utc | 4

“Does this then imply a probable widening of the war, with bombing of Syria and possibly Iran?”
I truly don’t know, and it irritates me a bit that so many people seem to think they DO know — based on what evidence I don’t know.
I do think it increases the risk that this will end in a wider war, in fact I personally would now put the risks of war with Iran at about 2 in 3.
But the question is WHEN. I know Bush and Cheney are crazy war criminals etc, but I have to imagine that even they will think twice about war with Iran as long as 130,000 US troops are sitting in Iraq, dangling at the end of an 800 mile supply line. But if they ever DO managed to withdraw substantial numbers of troops, or if we get word that they’re establishing an alternative supply route through Jordan or Turkey, then all bets are off.

Posted by: billmon | Jul 26 2006 21:57 utc | 5

what is astounding to me is the survivial of hezbollah in relation to excessive force, that has as its parallels – the german armies at the beginning of operation barbarossa,the american use of air power in the bombings hanoi haiphong & more recently in the excessive force used against the iraqi people of fallujah, ramadi, tal afar
whatever you think of hezbollah they have shown a courage that is absent in the leadership not only of the middle east but throughout the world
i don’t have to be an islamist to see something exceptionaly brave in these people who are fighting the empire & their proxies in the middle east
they exist in stark contrast to the irakian henchman who came to speak to his masters in washington
that thug,netanyahu speaking to nic-whatever- his -name – is on cnn tells us that they are only using a fraction of a fraction – then i would asky why israel at the moment is forced to indulge in false victories, in claiming villages it has not conquered – it has never had to do that in the past – now it is doing it every day
& israeli excessive force is being used against gaza & west bank to levels that are even more bloody than they have ever been
again it is the poor who pay the price of the war of the rich & their ideologues
& it seems to me, as in iraq with each day the resistance survives it becomes stronger as the nvra & viet cong before them
what the andersoncoopers of this world hide is the elemental factor of that resistance, the cost of that resistance both to the lebanese & the israelis. as it is for the white house it merely copies down what their masters tell them
it is truly scandalous but not at all surprising that since the us don’t do body counts we do not know the appalling cost in lives
& i am sure it will widen into syria because the israelis will not be able to defeat hezbollah even in south lebanon so will blame or invent reasons for an attack on syria – not the least of them being -a message to iran
but this will be writtn in a people’s blood

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 26 2006 22:02 utc | 6

From this good Blog

But perhaps the most grotesque character was the military analyst who explained why the fighting was so hard: “We mustn’t forget that we are facing a terrorist organization with a yearly budget of 100 million dollars”—which is quite embarrassing considering that Israel gets 30 times that sum yearly from the US, not counting the huge local military budget, estimated at $9.45 billion by the CIA in 2005.
In sum, several thousand determined guerrilla fighters, with a small military budget and a modest supply of weapons from a Third World country (Iran, and perhaps, Syria as well) are beating a monstrous military apparatus built up by imperialism for decades. It’s Vietnam all over again—terrible suffering for the Lebanese people and also, to a much lesser degree, for the Israeli civilians, but good news for the anti-imperialist fighters all over the world.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 26 2006 22:14 utc | 7

I wonder what is happening in Jordan. Imagine what a revolt there would bring.

Posted by: biklett | Jul 26 2006 22:15 utc | 8

a) i cannot see how the palestinian people’s situation can get any worse
b)i cannot see what is left to negotiate with & what – in the occupied territories
c)there is no possibility of israel resolving the problem of the palestinians, nor any clear desire or obligation to do so
d) given what has happened already to palestinian elites – i do not ever see the possibility of a puppet state
in lebanon ;
a) the israelis have mentioned in the last two days they want a buffer zone & it is becominbg clearer that that buffer zone will become yet another area of occupation
b) hezbollah follwing the maxim of mao -for the guerrilla to be a fish amongst a sea of people coupled with the brutal terrorism used by israel has created much profounder & deepers senses of support in that community
c) when the israelis ocupy south lebanon – hezbollah will attack with more powerful rockets
d) israelis wil say they are being sent through syria& because for america syria is also a supply route for the resistance in iraq – they will attack syria
e) they will not attack iran because they do not have the force to do so without altering forever power relations all over the globe
we can posit what might happen with what is impossible to return to after this escalation of the ‘conflict between civilisations’

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 26 2006 22:16 utc | 9

But the question is WHEN. I know Bush and Cheney are crazy war criminals etc, but I have to imagine that even they will think twice about war with Iran as long as 130,000 US troops are sitting in Iraq, dangling at the end of an 800 mile supply line. But if they ever DO managed to withdraw substantial numbers of troops, or if we get word that they’re establishing an alternative supply route through Jordan or Turkey, then all bets are off
I believe you are assuming an invasion would have to take place. Just as Israel has not committed ground troops to the destruction of Lebanon the US would not need to send troops in either. So much damage can be done from the air that the Mullahs would most likely capitulate. Iran can not defend itself from the USAF. A sustained air campaign would devestate the country in a couple of months with little loss of life of US military.
The US has had many years to practice this kind of warfare and have become quite proficient. How many airplanes have been shot down in the last 15 years of flying over Iraq? From GWI to the latest adventure I doubt we have lost more than a handful of fighters and even fewer pilots. If the US public can shrug off 2500 dead soldiers and some 25000 severely wounded, they probably won’t get too upset about a couple of pilots either.
By now the cruise missile stocks should be replenished too.
Rumsfeld is all about lean and mean. Grunts are so yesterday.

Posted by: dan of steele | Jul 26 2006 22:18 utc | 10

Iran: The Next War An explosive report, Rolling Stone adds new fuel to fire over possible Iran strike. By James Bamford.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 26 2006 22:28 utc | 11

biklett: “I wonder what is happening in Jordan. Imagine what a revolt there would bring.”
Yeah, … Iraq, Gaza & Hamas, and now this… I bet the Jordanians are steaming mad. Amazing there has not been a revolt so far. Also wondering about refugees from Lebanon coming into Jordan – I haven’t heard much in the media about this.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 26 2006 22:32 utc | 12

Dan #10: Of course, the US can bomb the shit out of Tehran. But Iran has artillery and they can shoot (we’ve seen it in the Iran/Iraq war of the 80s). US troops could very well be at the business end of some nasty shower of steel, a position they haven’t really experienced since Korea. There is also the supply question, a fact discussed many times in WB and elsewhere. And the Shi’a militias in Iraq, plus the Silkworm missiles used by the Iranians, plus the $6-8 a gallon gasoline.
Is the Cheney administration that crazy?

Posted by: ClaudeB | Jul 26 2006 22:48 utc | 13

“So much damage can be done from the air that the Mullahs would most likely capitulate. Iran can not defend itself from the USAF.”
Dan, air power alone has never won a war. The Iranian people will rally around the Mullahs they hate as US bombs devastate Tehran. They will never capitulate to an air attack as we are just seeing in Lebanon. And as Billmon pointed out in an earlier post on this thread, we have 130,000 soldiers sitting in Iraq that are supplied over 800 miles of southern Iraq. What do you think will happen to those supplies if the Shia in southern Iraq along with Iranian revolutionary guards already mixed in there start a guerilla campaign on the truck convoys? What happens to oil prices when the Iranians slow down the Straits of Hormuz to tanker traffic? An air campaign will only widen the conflict and cause our soldiers in Iraq more grief when fuel, water, food and ammunition barely arrive in Baghdad and points north.

Posted by: ab initio | Jul 26 2006 22:51 utc | 14

Since israelis, like everyone else, drive cars, they know that oil is almost as valuable as water. And since their lands produce no oil, they can never be sure of their standing as America’s 51st state (or its 52nd, after the UK). And why should they ever be sure? They cost us a fair amount, they’ll never be able to repay us, and they also know that their standing as a shining example of democracy is of no real interest to imperial narcissists, who wear democracy like a mask, to be taken off when the party’s over…. No, it’s right for our author to worry, because if the United States ever tires of Israel, then Israel will have to find another, very rich and generous, sugar daddy. Russia, perhaps? or Saudi Arabia? China perhaps? or Iran?…. No, Israel has to stay with its main squeeze; it has to keep up its sex appeal (for that’s what our author’s talking about). And what could be sexier, more alluring, to Americans than the spectacle of a great big massacre in the spirit of Cowboys and Indians, or of that John Wayne movie called “Iwo Jima”? Bush may not be beautiful, but a girl’s gotta eat….

Posted by: alabama | Jul 26 2006 23:13 utc | 15

we have today this boming in tyre of a 10 story building & we are to believe it was totally empty
these scum of the earth who think they are journalists addicted as they are to the big bobs & detonations of their dick are incapable of listening to a human heart
& the realities of that human heart

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 26 2006 23:34 utc | 16

Air power can not take a country that is true. Take a look at this map to see where attacks can be launched from. It may not be necessary to invade and hold the whole country. Perhaps only the part that has oil along the Persian gulf.
The artillery can be destroyed quite easily from the air and/or with a combination of tanks and Cobra helicopters.
I do not believe the Shias would attack US forces in the south, this idea of a great Muslim brotherhood is exagerated imo. If there were such a thing they would fight the invaders instead of fighting each other in Iraq.
Much has been said about the Silkworm threat in the straits but that has never happened either. During GW1 the US Navy took out all the launch sites in Iraq and no ships were hit by the Iraqis even though they did fire. The missiles either missed or were shot down with anti missile defense systems.
Within a few days the US could own Iranian airspace and then targets would be selected at will and become more and more painful. You say air power never won a war but it was successful in causing Serbia to withdraw from Kosovo.
I see US military power being similar to that death star thing in Starwars, we can destroy with impunity and wild abandon. No one can stand up to us because they would simply be destroyed as well. The only hope of stopping this crap must come from within the US, it won’t be brave and foolish men charging M-1 tanks on horseback.
What might cause some hesitation from the bloodthirsty criminal bastards running the country is fourth generation warfare. I suspect those same bastards are willing to accept that risk as well. After all, they already have bunkers and personal guards, it is just the rest of us who will be at risk.
folks, I am not a warmonger. I am trying to be realistic. we spend a half trillion dollars a year on fantastic weapons designed to give us an advantage in warfare. Many of those work as advertised and those that don’t still cause a lot of damage. There is nothing like it in the world.

Posted by: dan of steele | Jul 26 2006 23:38 utc | 17

@Alabama:
Nice to see you back.
And yes, it’s nearing supper time.
GRRLS gotta eat.

Posted by: Ms. Manners | Jul 26 2006 23:41 utc | 18

an tough piece from counterpunch :
Nothing Good Can Come from This War
Is Beirut Burning?
By URI AVNERY
Tel Aviv.
“IT SEEMS that Nasrallah survived,” Israeli newspapers announced, after 23 tons of bombs were dropped on a site in Beirut, where the Hizbullah leader was supposedly hiding in a bunker.
An interesting formulation. A few hours after the bombing, Nazrallah had given an interview to Aljazeera television. Not only did he look alive, but even composed and confident. He spoke about the bombardment – proof that the interview was recorded on the same day.
So what does “it seems that” mean? Very simple: Nasrallah pretends to be alive, but you can’t believe an Arab. Everyone knows that Arabs always lie. That’s in their very nature, as Ehud Barak once pronounced.
The killing of the man is a national aim, almost the main aim of the war. This is, perhaps, the first war in history waged by a state in order to kill one person. Until now, only the Mafia thought along those lines. Even the British in World War II did not proclaim that their aim was to kill Hitler. On the contrary, they wanted to catch him alive, in order to put him on trial. Probably that’s what the Americans wanted, too, in their war against Saddam Hussein.
But our ministers have officially decided that that is the aim. There is not much novelty in that: successive Israeli governments have adopted a policy of killing the leaders of opposing groups. Our army has killed, among others, Hizbullah leader Abbas Mussawi, PLO no. 2 Abu Jihad, as well as Sheik Ahmad Yassin and other Hamas leaders. Almost all Palestinians, and not only they, are convinced that Yassir Arafat was also murdered.
And the results? The place of Mussawi was filled by Nasrallah, who is far more able. Sheik Yassin was succeeded by far more radical leaders. Instead of Arafat we got Hamas.
As in other political matters, a primitive military mindset governs this reasoning too.
A person returning here after a long absence and seeing our TV screens might get the impression that a military junta is governing Israel, in the (former) South American manner.
On all TV channels, every evening, one sees a parade of military brass in uniform. They explain not only the day’s military actions, but also comment on political matters and lay down the political and propaganda line.
During all the other hours of broadcasting time, a dozen or so have-been generals repeat again and again the message of the army commanders. (Some of them don’t look particularly intelligent – not to say downright stupid. It is frightening to think that these people were once in a position to decide who would live and who would die.)
True, we are a democracy. The army is completely subject to the civilian establishment. According to the law, the cabinet is the “supreme commander” of the army (which in Israel includes the navy and air force). But in practice, today it is the top brass who decide all political and military matters. When Dan Halutz tells the ministers that the military command has decided on this or that operation, no minister dares to express opposition. Certainly not the hapless Labor Party ministers.
Ehud Olmert presents himself as the heir to Churchill (“blood, sweat and tears”). That’s quite pathetic enough. Then Amir Peretz puffs up his chest and shoots threats in all directions, and that’s even more pathetic, if that’s possible. He resembles nothing so much as a fly standing on the ear of an ox and proclaiming: “we are ploughing!”
The Chief-of-Staff announced last week with satisfaction: “The army enjoys the full backing of the government!” That is also an interesting formulation. It implies that the army decides what to do, and the government provides “backing”. And that’s how it is, of course.
Now it is not a secret anymore: this war has been planned for a long time. The military correspondents proudly reported this week that the army has been exercising for this war in all its details for several years. Only a month ago, there was a large war game to rehearse the entrance of land forces into South Lebanon – at a time when both the politicians and the generals were declaring that “we shall never again get into the Lebanon quagmire. We shall never again introduce land forces there.” Now we are in the quagmire, and large land forces are operating in the area.
The other side, too, has been preparing this war for years. Not only did they build caches of thousands of missiles, but they have also prepared an elaborate system of Vietnam-style bunkers, tunnels and caves. Our soldiers are now encountering this system and paying a high price. As always, our army has treated “the Arabs” with disdain and discounted their military capabilities.
That is one of the problems of the military mentality. Talleyrand was not wrong when he said that “war is much too serious a thing to be left to military men.” The mentality of the generals, resulting from their education and profession, is by nature force-oriented, simplistic, one-dimensional, not to say primitive. It is based on the belief that all problems can be solved by force, and if that does not work – then by more force.
That is well illustrated by the planning and execution of the current war. This was based on the assumption that if we cause terrible suffering to the population, they will rise up and demand the removal of Hizbullah. A minimal understanding of mass psychology would suggest the opposite. The killing of hundreds of Lebanese civilians, belonging to all the ethno-religious communities, the turning of the lives of the others into hell, and the destruction of the life-supporting infrastructure of Lebanese society will arouse a groundswell of fury and hatred – against Israel, and not against the heroes, as they see them, who sacrifice their lives in their defense.
The result will be a strengthening of Hizbullah, not only today, but for years to come. Perhaps that will be the main outcome of the war, more important than all the military achievements, if any. And not only in Lebanon, but throughout the Arab and Muslim world.
Faced with the horrors that are shown on all television and many computer screens, world opinion is also changing. What was seen at the beginning as a justified response to the capture of the two soldiers now looks like the barbaric actions of a brutal war-machine. The elephant in a china shop.
Thousands of e-mail distribution lists have circulated a horrible series of photos of mutilated babies and children. At the end, there is a macabre photo: jolly Israeli children writing “greetings” on the artillery shells that are about to be fired. Then there appears a message: “Thanks to the children of Israel for this nice gift. Thanks to the world that does nothing. Signed: the children of Lebanon and Palestine.”
The woman who heads the United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights has already defined these acts as war crimes – something that may in future mean trouble for Israeli army officers.
In general, when army officers are determining the policy of a nation, serious moral problems arise.
In war, a commander is obliged to take hard decisions. He sends soldiers into battle, knowing that many will not return and others will be maimed for life. He hardens his heart. As General Amos Yaron told his officers after the Sabra and Shatila massacre: “Our senses have been blunted!”
Years of the occupation regime in the Palestinian territories have caused a terrible callousness as far as human lives are concerned. The killing of ten to twenty Palestinians every day, including women and children, as happens now in Gaza, does not agitate anyone. It doesn’t even make the headlines. Gradually, even routine expressions like “We regretwe had no intentionthe most moral army in the world” and all the other trite phrases are not heard anymore.
Now this numbness is revealing itself in Lebanon. Air Force officers, calm and comfortable, sit in front of the cameras and speak about “bundles of targets”, as if they were talking about a technical problem, and not about living human beings. They speak about driving hundreds of thousands of human beings from their homes as an imposing military achievement, and do not hide their satisfaction in face of human beings whose whole life has been destroyed. The word that is most popular with the generals at this time is “pulverize” – we pulverize, they are being pulverized, neighborhoods are pulverized, buildings are pulverized, people are pulverized.
Even the launching of rockets at our towns and villages does not justify this ignoring of moral considerations in fighting the war. There were other ways of responding to the Hizbullah provocation, without turning Lebanon into rubble. The moral numbness will be transformed into grievous political damage, both immediate and long term. Only a fool or worse ignores moral values – in the end, they always take revenge.
IT IS almost banal to say that it is easier to start a war than to finish it. One knows how it starts, it is impossible to know how it will end.
Wars take place in the realm of uncertainty. Unforeseen things happen. Even the greatest captains in history could not control the wars they started. War has its own laws.
We started a war of days. It turned into a war of weeks. Now they are speaking of a war of months. Our army started a “surgical” action of the Air Force, afterwards it sent small units into Lebanon, now whole brigades are fighting there, and reservists are being called up in large numbers for a wholesale 1982-style invasion. Some people already foresee that the war may roll towards a confrontation with Syria.
All this time, the United States has been using all its might in order to prevent the cessation of hostilities. All signs indicate that it is pushing Israel towards a war with Syria – a country that has ballistic missiles with chemical and biological warheads.
Only one thing is already certain on the 11th day of the war: Nothing good will come of it. Whatever happens – Hizbullah will emerge strengthened. If there had been hopes in the past that Lebanon would slowly become a normal country, where Hizbullah would be deprived of a pretext for maintaining a military force of its own, we have now provided the organization with the perfect justification: Israel is destroying Lebanon, only Hizbullah is fighting to defend the country.
As for deterrence: a war in which our huge military machine cannot overcome a small guerilla organization in 11 days of total war certainly has not rehabilitated its deterrent power. In this respect, it is not important how long this war will last and what will be its results – the fact that a few thousand fighters have withstood the Israeli army for 11 days and more, has already been imprinted in the consciousness of hundred of millions of Arabs and Muslims.
From this war nothing good will come – not for Israel, not for Lebanon and not for Palestine. The “New Middle East” that will be its result will be a worse place to live in.”

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 26 2006 23:41 utc | 19

deanander AND alabama are back!
I really missed both of you, hope you can post more often.

Posted by: dan of steele | Jul 26 2006 23:42 utc | 20

I’m sure I don’t really need to post this, but it always gets my attention.
Let’s add to the mix the fact that the Chinese are sidling up to Iran. China is desparate for oil, and can walk to the stuff if they need to. I’m not sure they’ll stand idly by while the USA conducts End-Timer political experiments in the Middle East, randomly pushing this button or that button to see what happens: “Oh shit…well, that didn’t work…”
As others have noted, a few well placed explosions in the Strait of Hormuz and we’re all seriously fucked. Remember: this is about oil, and nothing else. We may try to dress up the pig with talk of democracy and freedom and protecting Israel, but sans oil, we wouldn’t be there and Israel could go pound sand. Iran is well aware of this; they’ve been playing power politics in the region for a long, long time, and they’re good at it.
Every time we call Ahmadinejad, or the Mullahs, or Hezbollah “madmen” and “terrorists”, somewhere Sun Tzu sadly shakes his head. What idiocy: all war is terrorism. We’re being played like suckers, and all we’ve got on our team are a bunch of rubes and mouthbreathers. All we’ve got is “…tell Hezbollah to stop doin’ that shit…” You don’t go to the Finals with a sorry-ass game like that…..

Posted by: montysano | Jul 26 2006 23:42 utc | 21

In the early 1900’s Australia was legally a country, but in practice each person thought of themselves as a member of their state first, Australia second. It was not until the battle of Gallipoli that this changed.
It looks like the current conflict may be the Lebanese Gallipoli moment.
Angry Arab reports on recent polling in Lebanon. Unsourced, unfortunately, but interesting. Even a majority of Christians support the original capture of the two Israeli soldiers.

“70 % support the capture of the two Israeli soldiers (73.1 among Sunnis, 96.3 among Shi`ites, 40% among Druzes, and 55 among Christians);”
8″7% support that “the resistance fight Israeli aggression on Lebanon” (88.9 among Sunnis, 96.3 among Shi`ites, 80% among Druzes, and 80% among Christians);”
“8% think that America adopted a positive position toward Lebanon during this war (7.9% among Sunnis, 4 among Shi`ites, 13.6 among Druzes, and 15 among Christians).”

Posted by: still working it out | Jul 26 2006 23:50 utc | 22

@Monty:
Bush League talent seldom gets to the finals, much less the Great Game.
The Game’s Darwinian after all.

Posted by: Ms. Manners | Jul 26 2006 23:53 utc | 23

dan of steele
i am in complete disagreement with you
principally because the price has never been so high
if i was in either syrian or iranian leadership i would be preparing for war & preparing to fight it the tough way knowing the the empire does not have the stomach for a ‘real’ war like that between iran & iraq.
that in the sadean sense, is a war those little planners at the pentagon & those corrosiveresespondants from cnn – have no idea at all – perhaps soemthing from their adolescene – a wes craven film, or a john milius script – but no they do not have the stomach for that kind of war
& the syrians & the iranians have two choices it seems to me – to wait & prepare for war or to bring the war to the enemy
others have argued that all iran has to do is wait – in iraq for example because the prize will be eventually theirs one way or another
but i don’t think we are living in that kind of world anymore – i imagine we are going to see it going to the ‘brink’ as the cnn creatures so carnally want to call it – but i think the brink is already being felt by the lebanese – those most ‘western’ of arabs – once you’ve lost them – the little potentates you have in your pockets like so much silver will fall through the holes in your pockets
airpower destroys the humanity of the user as much as it destroys the population & cities of your ‘enemy’
dan – the vietnamese tasted more u s steel than any war in history & they won & won decisively
the difference here is that the americans in iraq & the israelis in lebanon are committing war crimes (the nature of their armnaments, phosophoresence etc etc) in a deliberate & systematic way whenever they are losing on the ground as they were for example in fallujah
whatever world an air campaign would create would not be worth keeping

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 26 2006 23:54 utc | 24

solomon on cohen

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 27 2006 0:02 utc | 25

Harper’s: Former official says Bush mulling sending American troops to Lebanon
A “well-connected former CIA officer” has told Harper’s Magazine Washington bureau chief that the Bush Administration is considering deploying US troops to Lebanon, according to a post at the magazine’s website (RAW STORY has excerpted the post below because the site loads slowly when we link directly). Harper’s post is here.
#
“The officer, who had broad experience in the Middle East while at the CIA, noted that NATO and European countries, including England, have made clear that they are either unwilling or extremely reluctant to participate in an international force. Given other nations’ lack of commitment, any “robust” force—between 10,000 and 30,000 troops, according to estimates being discussed in the media—would by definition require major U.S. participation. According to the former official, Israel and the United States are currently discussing a large American role in exactly such a “multinational” deployment, and some top administration officials, along with senior civilians at the Pentagon, are receptive to the idea.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Jul 27 2006 0:08 utc | 26

From the American point of view Israel is either:
An ally able to take care of itself militarily.
or
A liability that may need direct military assistance.
There is not really anywhere in between these two positions. You are either certain of military victory, or not. If not, then you need help.
The JPost columnist is trying to put the best spin on the reality that if Israel cannot beat even Hezbullah its respect within Washington will be diminished. The idea that Israel can take care of itself no matter what is part of the reason Israel is allowed so much leeway. If Washington feels it Israel may need direct military help if things go badly wrong, its going to be a constant restraining force on Israel. You keep your pit bull on a tighter leash if it picks fights it might lose.
In other words, Israel’s strategic and military indepedence are on the line in their fight with Hezbollah.

Posted by: still working it out | Jul 27 2006 0:23 utc | 27

@RG:
Cohen’s very vulerable and sensitive to EMail barrages that arrive in his Email in box 0830(wouldn’t want to wake a naif up early would we?).
3000 Emails titled Zionist Lackey ought to
get his attention, and he’ll whine about it for three weeks.
His reaction always makes for good comedy.
Are we ready to accomplish this mission.
Send the RG post to everyone in your address book and ask them to compliment Mr. Cohen.
Ought to near drive him round the bend.

Posted by: Ms. Manners | Jul 27 2006 0:29 utc | 28

You know, the most insane part of this neocon drive for war is its endpoint.
Suppose we win? We beat Iran, we beat Syria, we pulverize everyone in the region back to the Stone Age. Then what do we do with them?
Is there some sort of magical gas that can change everyone’s mind about the Israelis (and us) and decide that we’re all just peachy and wonderful? Could we really just transpose the brain tissue of every single Muslim in the world so that they’d think we were so marvelous they’d never VOTE (supposing we really, really did give them democracy and democratic elections!) into action anything that would oppose Israeli policies or ours?
This is the insane gambit here. Are we going to just vaporize them all? Pay them all off? (Boy, how much would that cost?) What?
No one will ever win anything. There will just be destruction and more destruction. Of course, the neocon scenario really is a permanent state of war anyway. And they think that’s good for Israel.
But it’s the very last thing corporations and big business could possibly want. You cannot do business in a country that is in a constant state of chaos. There’s nobody to sign a contract with, nothing you can do.

Posted by: 2nd anonymous poster | Jul 27 2006 0:48 utc | 29

deanander AND alabama are back!
plus i know malooga is out there somewhere reading this so i hope he blesses us w/his wisdom once again. these brilliant moody creative types, jeez louise

Posted by: annie | Jul 27 2006 0:51 utc | 30

FWIW I used to post around here long ago, about the time the blog first started up, when Billmon decided to stop taking posts at his site. If I recall correctly, however, there was some kind of conflagration around the time of the elections, with some individuals calling others “trolls” for criticizing the Democrats at election time. Or maybe that was at another “sister” blog at the same time, I can’t remember. At any rate I sort of dropped out of the blogging world about that time.
And, honestly, I can’t for the life of me remember what my nickname was then. But I remember all of you good folk.

Posted by: 2nd anonymous poster | Jul 27 2006 0:56 utc | 31

2nd,
there was a famous shootout which ended the whiskey annex that fits your description pretty good.

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Jul 27 2006 1:10 utc | 32

I think I witnessed two intentional arsons.
But I can’t remember either.
So Long aqo.

Posted by: Eliot Ness | Jul 27 2006 1:11 utc | 33

“Harper’s: Former official says Bush mulling sending American troops to Lebanon”
This is completely insane. Even by Bush standards.

Posted by: still working it out | Jul 27 2006 1:12 utc | 34

Thanks SKOD,
See a lot of MIA friends there.

Posted by: Eliot Ness | Jul 27 2006 1:16 utc | 35

And I think both were inside jobs.

Posted by: Eliot Ness | Jul 27 2006 1:35 utc | 36

2ap,
“But it’s the very last thing corporations and big business could possibly want. You cannot do business in a country that is in a constant state of chaos. There’s nobody to sign a contract with, nothing you can do.”
Very true, but would pale as a consequence from bombing Iran/Syria — if after doing so, China felt compelled to call in some of their debt. After the U.S. has further depleated their arsenal, exhausted their army, and are paying $6.00 a gallon at the pump — poof!

Posted by: anna missed | Jul 27 2006 1:44 utc | 37

The other thing I wanted to say was – I wish someone would do some sort of psycho-social-anthropological study as to *why* the Israelis have such unshakeable faith in collective punishment. If there is one constant strategy that seems to be implemented over and over and over again year upon year, it’s that. (Read the recent Dershowitz stuff that Billmon posted about a few days ago!)

Posted by: 2nd anonynmous poster | Jul 27 2006 1:45 utc | 38

dan
what i was usuggesting in brief – i don’t think either the syrians or the iranians have a lot of choice in the matter – they are going to be attacked in the immediate or near future
the empire is choosing the course – with the rest of us as unholy victims
but 2nd has pointed out the dilemna of the empire – they want constant war – it serves their purpose – they also want chaos, politically – whatever for of divide & rule but at the same time they want to make a profit & there are elements of the elites completely outside the pentagon/halliburton axis & i imagine they too will fight for their piece of the pie

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 27 2006 1:54 utc | 39

2nd
the psychoanalytic line is clear – if you have suffered at the hands of collective punishment then you will repeat the action. the victim becomes the perpetrator
& yes ms manners, it would be a pleasure to see the smirk wiped off the clock of general cohen

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 27 2006 1:58 utc | 40

Thanks for keeping on writing, Billmon.

Posted by: Margot | Jul 27 2006 2:21 utc | 41

Hi giap,
I think that’s a piece of it, but it goes beyond that. There are others who’ve suffered genocide, and collective punishments (heck the Arabs still despise the Turks and celebrate defeat of the Ottomans). I mean, the Nazis inflicted collective punishments on other populations. In Rwanda there are survivors of genocide who aren’t as a group calling for mass slaughter even of the perpetrators. At some point, people decide they either choose war as the option and whatever its outcome will be, or that they have to recognize they have what might be unpleasant, even violent, neighbors to live with and gamble on some sort of attempt at a negotiation, however unsatisfatory, to whatever degree it might work to bring at least stability.
Perhaps it’s that emotional memory coupled with access to what seems like unlimited power, technological advancement every year in sheer force and killing power. This can be a heady mix for people who still feel the shadow of absolute deprivation and total threat to survival as a people, one supposes.
The Israeli right-wing policy makers are not the only people in the world who have absolute faith in sheer power and might and all that it can achieve. This is a human disease, universal as far as I can tell. Archetypal even: “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?”
There’s that famous interview said to be with Sharon by Amos Oz. Part of it’s reprinted here at the San Diego IndyMedia site.
Here’s an excerpt:
“Leibowitz is right, we are Judeo-Nazis, and why not? Listen, a people that gave itself up to be slaughtered, a people that let soap to be made of its children and lamp shades from the skin of its women is a worse criminal than its murderers. Worse than the Nazis…If your nice civilised parents had come here in time instead of writing books about the love for humanity and singing Hear O Israel on the way to the gas chambers, now don’t be shocked, if they instead had killed six million Arabs here or even one million, what would have happened? Sure, two or three nasty pages would have been written in the history books, we would have been called all sorts of names, but we could be here today as a people of 25 million!”
There is a kind of absolute shame of this history that is blinding to the reality of what really might be in Israel’s better interest here. Just my opinion of course, and perhaps that can change. I cannot say, given the 20th century history of the Jewish people, that I can blame anyone of Sharon’s generation for at least having such feelings. I can understand what it means to feel always on the verge of not surviving. But, of course, that does not negate the need for self-knowledge, for a reality check, the resonsibility for such behavior.

Posted by: 2nd anonymous poster | Jul 27 2006 2:24 utc | 42

PS I suppose that makes us (the US) the parent/enabler here. Or something like that. The co-dependent friend?
And we’ve suffered from faith/addiction/entrancement of that Beast, the great technological advance, for a long while now. Let’s say for a good 45 years or so. Oh we are in rapture to it.

Posted by: 2nd anonymous poster | Jul 27 2006 2:28 utc | 43

Oh sorry, PS again:
I can’t see these policies as possible unless one does not consider the population upon which one visits the violence as someone less than oneself, with less human feelings. How else could we not see the outcome – the obvious outcome – of rebellion against this behavior? Why should the Israelis believe that the Lebanese will roll over and do as they ask? This I suppose is again faith in power, sheer faith in power. But I think it is also a contempt for oneself – a belief that in the same circumstances one would do the same (perhaps that one has done the same. That there is nothing else to humanity, to being human, but caving in to power.
Sorry if I’m meandering or wasting anyone’s time.

Posted by: 2nd anonymous poster | Jul 27 2006 2:33 utc | 44

montysano: ““…Let’s add to the mix the fact that the Chinese are sidling up to Iran. China is desparate for oil…”
Interesting that a soldier from China was one of the U.N. Peacekeepers killed on that watchtower in Lebanon yesterday.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 27 2006 2:36 utc | 45

re the psychology of tyrants/war criminals/sheeple:
Read Thou Shalt Not Be Aware
by Alice Miller

Posted by: gylangirl | Jul 27 2006 2:38 utc | 46

these fools on cnn are like fake generals in a gilbert & sullivan – they dress themselves up with all the name – editor of national desk- chief international correspondant etc – if it was not so cruel in its enactment – it would be wholly hysterical
these caricatures of caricatures bubbling about battlezones but burping like babies
really mr cooper is in full erection only if he is surrounded by an array of armnaments
ms amanapour a wholly undeserved reputation as incisive she is in fact as blunt as any tool in the journalist jungle
nic whaterver his nme is – well i haven’t seen a funnier scene than him following a hezbollah press officer through the ruins & him waddling his way to wiberty & weedom
the others unbearable & forgettable
& if i can be more precise – is wolf blitzer – lucifer – because he’s very very close & his mate caffrey or whatver – he’s a little like mephistopholes

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 27 2006 2:40 utc | 47

@CP:
In sum, several thousand determined guerrilla fighters, with a small military budget and a modest supply of weapons from a Third World country (Iran, and perhaps, Syria as well) are beating a monstrous military apparatus built up by imperialism for decades.
As my grandfather once told me about all this:
“It’s not about the size of the dog in the fight, it’s about the size of the fight in the dog.”
I breed poodles nowdays.

Posted by: Mia Giap | Jul 27 2006 2:40 utc | 48

Faux News is reporting late this evening that Olmert is having a meeting Thursday morning with his Cabinet to discuss expansion of the war. Maybe just propaganda…

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 27 2006 2:46 utc | 49

@r’giap,
For comic relief, “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” parodies these ‘chief foreign correspondent’ creeps. Really skewers them. Their website is found on Comedy Central.com .

Posted by: gylangirl | Jul 27 2006 2:48 utc | 50

gylangirl
just watched the ‘real’ ‘general’ with the name of spider offering a directly contradictory effort to the one he did three days ago – what a lurk it must be
it is entirely comic in conception

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 27 2006 2:56 utc | 51

“The other thing I wanted to say was – I wish someone would do some sort of psycho-social-anthropological study as to *why* the Israelis have such unshakeable faith in collective punishment. If there is one constant strategy that seems to be implemented over and over and over again year upon year, it’s that.”
This is all my armchair speculation. But have a read and see if it fits.
The reason goes back to the holocaust. Jews have one particular reaction to it that outsiders would consider very strange. There is all the usual guilt and feelings you would expect. I won’t pretend to even comprehend the suffering they must feel by saying what I think they are.
But there is one feeling that an outsider would never expect. Shame.
One of the things that you very rarely hear about, but is quite shocking is the private reaction of shame that many jews have about the holocaust. I have only seen it in a few places, but I suspect that it is the kind of thing that alot of people feel but would never say out loud because it is not a feeling they are proud of. They are ashamed of the fact that not many of the NAZI’s victims never really fought back. To me it is completely understandable. Who would really believe you are going to be shipped off to die? And what could they do anyway? But I get the impression that despite these realities a lot of jews feel ashamed, or embarassed, that so many of them just accepted being sent to concentration camps. That they did not fight back tooth and nail. That they passively acted like victims and did not stand up for themselves, even when their future as a people was on the line. This is only my speculation. I am not jewish and have never personally known anyone who was a victim of those horrible crimes.
This brought out a strange reaction after the holocaust. Jews decided they would NEVER, NEVER, EVER be weak again. They would NEVER allow anyone to attack them without standing up for themselves. Just as importantly, they would NEVER rely on others to protect them. They would ALWAYS fight back.
Natuarally, this has led to difficulties in making peace. Peace is dependent on making yourself vulnerable. Today, Germany does not base its military on an ability to beat France. They just accept that France will not attack them. It would be hard enough at the best of times for a country in Israel’s position to take this attitude. But I think the decision to never be weak ever again that jews made after WWII has made it psychologically impossible for them to really trust anyone, even the United States and certainly not Arabs. This has left them with force as the only way to interact with their neighbours. The concept of an active peace, such as exists an in Europe is probably a bit foriegn to an Israeli. To them peace is the absense of war, and anything beyond that is a little hard to comprehend.
I feel pretty crappy about talking about the Holocaust in this psycho babble like way because I am not really sure of what I am talking about, and really don’t have a right to do so. So take all this with a grain of salt. But that is how I have come to understand Israel today.

Posted by: still working it out | Jul 27 2006 3:38 utc | 52

@AP2
“I wish someone would do some sort of psycho-social-anthropological study as to *why* the Israelis have such unshakeable faith in collective punishment.”
As someone with an anthropological background, I can only say that I would rather have my head set on fire and put out with a sledgehammer (in the name of science, of course) than be the one who puts my name on an ethnography of the type you are describing.
How can a rapist and murderer play the victim card? I think it has to do with DeAnander’s observation some time ago (I’d link to it, but it would take me awhile to find it), that, as primates, we have a hardwired sense of “justice”. When we covet, when we receive what is not our due, we have to “make it fair” in our own minds. This involves jumping through a tremendous number of psychological hoops in most instances. Ken Lay, for example, truly convinced himself that he was an innocent bystander regarding his little “oopsie” with Enron.
Nobody wakes up in the morning, puts on their black hat, twists their moustache and contemplates what deviltry they can inflict upon an unsuspecting world. Yet deviltry is inflicted, and on a pretty regular basis, too. No matter what we do, we remain convinced that we are the “good guys”; the world is a movie starring us. Since we are the protagonists of any set of circumstances, it’s tantamount to a psychological blank cheque to do anything we can get away with. We can see the results by scanning the headlines. “Making it fair” is how individuals justify their abominable individual actions, and this is one part of the answer to your question.
The Isreali state is no different. States (no matter what number we put in front of them) are just collections of self-absorbed and self-righteous individuals. They act “in their interests”, the same way that individuals do… and the same way that corporations do, for that matter… but that does not make them individuals. Now we’re running into a problem.
To make blanket statements about why “Isrealis” believe anything can be answered in human and psychological terms. Isrealis believe the same things any human being believes. Same goes for anyone. The state of Isreal is a collection of “Isrealis”, true, but it is not the same to say “Why does Israel believe…?” as it is to say “Why do Isrealis believe…?” If you pose the second question, you will be faced with many Isrealis who do not fit the procrustean question you are asking. This is because states and corporations are modal individuals, which we are assured in Statistics 101 do not literally exist.
Obviously, they sure as hell do exist and the consequences of their actions are pretty damned tangible… but which real individuals exist to be held responsible for those consequences? All of them do, to a degree. Ask Bernhard sometime what it feels like to be “German” after the 1940’s. This is also “collective punishment”. If I am hassled in a bar for being American (and I have been… hmm. This bar is a cyber example of that), I am being collectively punished for policies that I have next to nothing to do with and very, very vocally oppose.
That means nothing to someone who does not share the same identity that I do and needs to hold the Modal Individual responsible for their very real crimes. I understand it even if I don’t approve of it. EVERYONE, to some degree, falls into the “collective punishment” mentality at some point. We talk about imaginary modal individuals as if they were people, and we throw entire groups into baskets to talk about “Why do Canadians…?”, “Isn’t it funny when Czechs…?”, “Boy, those Aussies sure like their beer, don’t they?”, et cetera. It’s a short step from there to assigning blanket “victims” and “oppressors” to the equation. The very question you asked, AP2, is a mild collective punishment that you probably weren’t even aware you were committing.
So that’s my brief answer. Human nature allows us to commit atrocities while holding on to our perceived “victimhood”, and we generally fail to distinguish between the actions of an individual as opposed to a collection of individuals. We need to “make it fair”… and if an imaginary Modal Individual is the object of our indignation, then real individuals are going to be forced to pay. Everyone does it.
By the way, I’d like to welcome back Billmon, Alabama and DeAnander into the ranks of active posters here. Each of your cherished perspectives have been sorely missed by me. And if Malooga wants to get off his jaded bottom and drop a quick note here, I, for one, would love to see it. To everyone else… nice job as usual. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Monolycus | Jul 27 2006 3:54 utc | 53

Cripes what a night!

I know that AOL Message boards are usually beneath the radar of our fine group but in the past five nights there has been a coordinated attempt by the extreme right to dominate, bully, insult, slander, and drive away any liberals and moderates. It is the fiercest attempt I have ever seen to conquer a message board. Last night it got so bad that one neocon poster got the e-mail address of a female liberal who was answer back his accusations that all Liberals are racist anti-semites, etc, and proceeded to post fifty threads with her name, e-mail address with offers to have sex and send nude photos. This happened to several people last night. I began to feel like it was another Kristallnacht made just for progressives. I was accused of being a sex slave to George Soros!

Now these AOL message boards have been the front lines of the grass roots culture wars for a few years. I was involved in a court case last December when I witnessed someone making a death threat against the judge in the Schiavo case and turned them in (she was convicted). But the message boards were much worse these past nights and here’s why.

1. These attacks are deliberate, scripted, and coordinated. There are many people putting up the same cut and paste propaganda. They snap back with stock answers when these generate criticism.

2. The most active screen names are either tough, bullying names, anti Liberal names (*LIBSOUTOFUSA for example), or obscene mocking names (Hilryclintoris). They were mostly new to the boards… but not all.

3. They consistently used dehumanzing language, calling Muslims and Liberals “not human,” “inhuman,” “cockroaches,” ” expendible,” etc.

4. They consistently called for a nuclear strike against Iran and stressed the need to “exterminate as many muslims (and liberals) as possible. The thing is, these “kill all muslims,” “deport all Muslims,” and “all muslims are savages, begging to be killed” posts
are in a greater number and intensity and number than at any time, even after 9/11.

5. They gang up on any one who counters thems, suggests alternatives, or declares themselves a Democrat.

What I find interesting was that a number of posters were pointing the finger at Netvocates,a right wing troll company that usually just spins its stuff on blogs. Some one else suspected it was the Randon Group, but I am unfamiliar with them.

Anybody here have any ideas why this activity has begun? I’d sleep better if it was due to a full moon. AOL boards are a wasteland, but I do watch there periodically. After all, Hitler started out in a beer hall, not a university.

Posted by: Diogenes | Jul 27 2006 4:00 utc | 54

It is good to see Billmon posting on MOA again. Billmon and friends, I think the idea in Lebanon and Iraq is deliberate destruction of viable states. Remember most of the ME states, including Israel, were arbitrarily created by the English and French. The people put in charge of states were old lackeys and “Kala Sahibs” whose primarily goal was to guarantee continued access to the old bosses prevent the rise of hostile forces (specially Soviet Union after WWII). The problem now is that the artificial states have managed to create strong national identities like Iraqi, Irani, Lebanese, or Kuwaiti. I remember talking to a Kuwaiti during the first Gulf War. I asked him that if he thought that aligning against Saddam was resulting in aligning with Israeli and US empire. His answer was the Kuwait was his country and he didn’t care if he had to align with the devil to get Saddam out of there. These states created a strong sense of nationalism as a counter to the internationalist theme of communism. But now the same strong nationalism is counter to global corporatism and thus has to be destroyed. Imagine Iraq and Lebanon without strong central state institutions that build hospitals, schools, roads, communications systems. In a couple of generations Middle East will fall back to where it was during the days before the Ottomans. Tribes fighting each other and selling their loyalties to the highest bidder. Uneducated and destitute masses wandering the desert in a landscape dotted with huge military and petroleum installations protected by armed UAVs, satellite based weapons, semi-autonomous hunter-killer machines, special forces butchers, and high tech private militias. I suspect that this is the vision of the next American Century, rolling the clock back to 1700s.
The problem is how do you get there from here? Iraq is start, Lebanon the next step, and now we are inching towards Syria and Iran. But I think Iran maybe the fish that chokes this beast, it won’t go down easy and then you have China and Russia. Are they part of the plan? I think the Brits know what is up and that’s why the ruling elite is so enamored with Chimpy even though the population can’t stand him. And with that I let this thought fly into the cyber space, ready to receive some serious bird shot!
Max

Posted by: Max Andersen | Jul 27 2006 4:07 utc | 55

@Diogenes
The only Randon Group I am aware of is a Brazilian trailer-maker, although they do have mid-east connections. Here’s a recent article. I expect the posters meant the Rendon Group with an “e”. These guys are notorious psy-ops consultants led by John Rendon, who helped coordinate the misinformation leading up to the Iraq War.

Posted by: Monolycus | Jul 27 2006 4:15 utc | 56

Anybody here have any ideas why this activity has begun? I’d sleep better if it was due to a full moon.
Not a full moon. RAIN. It’s been raining for days in eastern Texas and through Louisiana. The west side of Houston is under water. Along with the good people of Texas, there are a bunch of jackasses who are stuck in their homes with nothing to do except bail out the basement and hang out at AOL.

Posted by: Ensley | Jul 27 2006 4:24 utc | 57

wow diogenes, i didn’t even know that aol message boards existed. i’m glad we have this comforting home. thanks again b, we are lucky to have such a full house lately and such excellent threads. drinks all around

Posted by: annie | Jul 27 2006 4:46 utc | 58

It is getting late afternoon up South here at the top of world. This thing feels so awful (there’s a useless adjective) and foul that commenting on it today has felt to me to be a bit like standing close to the front at a public execution and shouting out “head up old chap’ or taking odds on whether the executed will shit their pants or not.
The situation the lebanese people are in through no fault of their own has got so much worse since yesterday.
After watching the Rome press conference live last night and hearing that everything was on the table including Sheeba Farms, the Lebanese PM tearing a strip off the Israeli govt and military for their war crimes while standing next to Condi, then Kofi Annan standing on the other side of Condi explaining how many times and when the UN post contacted the Israelis to tell them they were in the post and to stop with the bombardment, while Condi stood in the middle not exactly nodding her head but not disagreeing either, I actually got sucked in to the belief that the nazis had seen the light.
They had sussed that this was a blue they couldn’t win and it wasn’t worth the inevitable bad press so Condi had turned up to front for the zionists who were finally going to accept reality.
We all have our moments of madness because in no time at all after that the ‘Rome Summit’ was declared a ‘failure’.
This morning the pieces began to fall into place when a bloke I know slightly who had served a couple of terms as NZ’s representative on the Security council when it was NZ’s ‘turn’ explained the negative effect that the shelling of the outpost would have on the ability to put together a team to go into South Lebanon. Certainly our leaderene was on TV saying it was off the agenda until the real story was known.
The kiwi govt got put thru a squeeze play a coupla weeks ago.
It got temporarily resolved a few days later following the kiwi Foreign Minister having a quick chat with Condi before Condi headed off to the ME.
I haven’t bothered to point this out before because there was a distinct possibility that the NZ govt was being heavied about something else, namely the failure of the DOHA round which we haven’t spoken about here with all the killing going on but which long term will cost millions of lives in those parts of the world where luck cannot reach.
NZ tends to be picked for these gigs because many Islamic states don’t give us as much of a hairy eyeball but USuk figures we’re all whitefellas deep down. In fact a Kiwi Air Force Officer just missed out on being blown up with the other 4 UN observers (who tend to be commissioned career officers on the ‘fast track’ incidentally, they also tend to be quite well connected in their homelands which explains the Chinese anger in part).
But since the bombing of the post NZ is apparently reluctant to staff this new peacekeeping force until the situation stabilises on the ground” according to our leaderene. Kind of surprising since the NZ public were totally unaware of the proposal. Still you get that with politicians.
So IMO the situation now reads.
The outpost was blown deliberately because at the moment it seems the Israelis couldn’t punch their way out of the proverbial. That made a ceasfire out of the question lest it appear the ragheads may have won.
So now the murder continues for another week or until as long as it takes to seriously publically damage a few million lebanese.
Events in the last 48 hours mean that nukes are on the table. read what the assholes seem to be up to :
Lebanon probes weapons used in Israel bombing

“BEIRUT (Reuters) – Lebanon is investigating reports from doctors that Israel has used weapons in its 15-day-old bombardment of southern Lebanon that have caused wounds they have never seen before.
“We are sending off samples tomorrow, but we have no confirmation yet that illegal weapons have been used,” Health Minister Mohammed Khalife told Reuters. . . .”
“Blackened bodies have been showing up at hospitals in southern Lebanon two weeks into the war between Israel and Hizbollah guerrillas that has seen at least 418 people, mostly civilians, killed in Lebanon and at least 42 Israelis.
Killed by Israeli air raids, the Lebanese dead are charred in a way local doctors, who have lived through years of civil war and Israeli occupation, say they have not seen before.
Bachir Cham, a Belgian-Lebanese doctor at the Southern Medical Centre in Sidon, received eight bodies after an Israeli air raid on nearby Rmeili which he said exhibited such wounds.
He has taken 24 samples from the bodies to test what killed them. He believes it is a chemical.
Cham said the bodies of some victims were “black as shoes, so they are definitely using chemical weapons. They are all black but their hair and skin is intact so they are not really burnt. It is something else.” . . .”
Human Rights Watch, which has accused the Israeli army of using cluster bombs in populated areas of southern Lebanon, said it had not verified claims that Israel had used phosphorus.
“We are investigating but we haven’t confirmed anything yet. We have seen phosphorus used before and we have seen it in the artillery stocks of the Israeli army in the north,” said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch.
“Phosphorus shells do have a legitimate use in illuminating the battlefield at night. The offensive use of phosphorus would be a violation of international conventions.”
Television footage shows some bodies, such as those of 20 civilians killed when an Israeli missile hit the van in which they were fleeing the border village of Marwaheen, blackened in the way Cham describes. No one knows what killed them.
“We are seeing abnormal burns, different from wars we’ve seen in the past. The corpses of these victims are shrinking to half their normal size. You think it is the corpse of a child at first but it turns out to be a grown man,” said Raed Salman Zeinedine, director of Tyre Government Hospital.
“We’ve never seen anything like it but what the causes are I don’t want to speculate. We have no scientific answer.” . . .”

In addition our TV service who for a change have their own reporters in the area have reported that DU bunker busters have been used in Beirut for 2 days running as well as in the suburbs of Tyre and downtown Tyre.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 27 2006 4:53 utc | 59

Reading the JPost guest editorial (I assume that’s what it was) made me feel slightly creeped out. As an American, it made me feel like the Israeli writing the piece was trying to suck up to us. There was not a sense that the actions taken by Israel were heinous in themselves, but that Israel had to be careful and win or else it would lose its best (and only) friend in the world. What desperation, what insecurity. This is very scary.

Posted by: moe99 | Jul 27 2006 5:16 utc | 60

WTF or Where the Fuck is AOL?
Sounds like fun.
I subcontract out my poodles.
Are my contractors paid by the head or by the gross?
This is a no-bid contract, I hope. Hint- Hint

Posted by: Mia Giap | Jul 27 2006 5:28 utc | 61

Re. ceasefire
IMHO, 90% of the strategizing in Tel Aviv and Washington tonight is to figure out the kabuki of disengaging from this clusterfuck. I suspect the original plan sold to the Chimp was:
Phase 1: Soften the Lebanese by “precision” bombing for a few days
Phase 2: Follow-up with special (superhuman) israeli forces rushing into southern lebanon, capturing/killing top hezb leaders, destroying all military capability
All this would take about a week to 10 days. The Chimp was to ensure that the sunnis (Saudis, Egyptians, and Jordanians) made suitable public statements (“hizb is to blame”). Syria was given strong signals to stay uninvolved.
As Billmon says so well, somebody forgot to tell hizbollah the plan. What with 100’s of rockets paralyzing Haifa and neighbouring towns, naval ships being destroyed, and having to capture the same town/village over and over again, the israelis aren’t able to start (much less complete) Phase 2.
Its more than 10 days later, and the sunnis are more worried about their public than they are of the Americans. Hizbollah is still firing 100s of rockets with promises of more surprises. The israelis have gone from total destruction of hizb and a safety zone in lebanon to OK return the 2 soldiers and we’ll stop hostilities. There’s talk of getting the Syrians back into Lebonon.
In a week from now, Israel will end this misadventure with an elaborate kabuki for the American public (the UN promised us that they will make the Hizb behave themselves). The entire Arab world will talk about the only arab militia that defeated the israelis twice.

Posted by: simplyLurking | Jul 27 2006 5:34 utc | 62

Diogenes:
The counterpart to faith in collective punishments is faith in myth-making and PR. Every time there is some sort of offensive seen as helpful in the far right perspective, you will see this kind of activity especially in the more public sites (like AOL or heavy traffic sites of newspapers, etc.) The same thing that happens to churn out politicians of every stripe lining up to support the military action takes place all over the internet. And that’s why it looks cut-and-paste and all uniform. They are talking points. And you will see them over and over again. When we went to Iraq & Afghanistan it was “support our troops” but it’s the traditional weapons of the PACs that are now 100% far right Likud, because that’s who’s in charge.
Thanks, all, for your responses to my question and my meanderings. Each of you gave me important input.
It’s important to note that there is a whole body of political opinion within Israel and political spectrum. In fact I’d say it often seems to me that a wider spectrum was more openly expressed in Israel than in the US on Israel related issues. As we write here, there are demonstrations going on in Israel against this war, there are plenty of Israelis who feel that what is happening is madness, and the wider Jewish opinion around the world also shares a spectrum. My question had more to do with policies that are continually implemented. And like it or not, Olmert was not elected as a dove who all of a sudden went right-wing. He said plenty of extreme hardline things as mayor of Jerusalem.

Posted by: 2nd anonymous poster | Jul 27 2006 6:48 utc | 63

@gylangirl
Ditto on your #46
Read Thou Shalt Not Be Aware
by Alice Miller

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 27 2006 9:33 utc | 64

foreign policy in focus: Who’s Arming Israel?

Much has been made in the U.S. media of the Syrian- and Iranian-origin weaponry used by Hezbollah in the escalating violence in Israel and Lebanon. There has been no parallel discussion of the origin of Israel’s weaponry, the vast bulk of which is from the United States.
The United States is the primary source of Israel’s far superior arsenal. For more than 30 years, Israel had been the largest recipient of U.S. foreign assistance and since 1985 Jerusalem has received about $3 billion in military and economic aid each year from Washington. U.S. aid accounts for more than 20% of Israel’s total defense budget.
Over the past decade, the United States has transferred more than $17 billion in military aid to this country of just under 7 million people.
Israel is one of the United States’ largest arms importers. Between 1996 and 2005 (the last year for which full data is available), Israel took delivery of $10.19 billion in U.S. weaponry and military equipment, including more than $8.58 billion through the Foreign Military Sales program, and another $1.61 billion in Direct Commercial Sales
During the Bush administration, from 2001 to 2005, Israel received $10.5 billion in Foreign Military Financing—the Pentagon’s biggest military aid program—and $6.3 billion in U.S. arms deliveries. The aid figure is larger than the arms transfer figure because it includes financing for major arms agreements for which the equipment has yet to be fully delivered. The most prominent of these deals is a $4.5 billion sale of 102 Lockheed Martin F-16s to Israel.

Click here for the full World Policy Institute report [pdf]

Posted by: b real | Jul 27 2006 17:55 utc | 65

chossudovsky: The War on Lebanon and the Battle for Oil

Is there a relationship between the bombing of Lebanon and the inauguration of the World’s largest strategic pipeline, which will channel more a million barrels of oil a day to Western markets?
Virtually unnoticed, the inauguration of the Ceyhan-Tblisi-Baku (BTC) oil pipeline, which links the Caspian sea to the Eastern Mediterranean, took place on the 13th of July, at the very outset of the Israeli sponsored bombings of Lebanon.
One day before the Israeli air strikes, the main partners and shareholders of the BTC pipeline project, including several heads of State and oil company executives were in attendance at the port of Ceyhan. They were then rushed off for an inauguration reception in Istanbul, hosted by Turkey’s President Ahmet Necdet Sezer in the plush surroundings of the Çýraðan Palace.
Also in attendance was British Petroleum’s (BP) CEO, Lord Browne together with senior government officials from Britain, the US and Israel. BP leads the BTC pipeline consortium. Other major Western shareholders include Chevron, Conoco-Phillips, France’s Total and Italy’s ENI. (see Annex)
Israel’s Minister of Energy and Infrastructure Binyamin Ben-Eliezer was present at the venue together with a delegation of top Israeli oil officials.
The BTC pipeline totally bypasses the territory of the Russian Federation. It transits through the former Soviet republics of Azerbaijan and Georgia, both of which have become US “protectorates”, firmly integrated into a military alliance with the US and NATO. Moreover, both Azerbaijan and Georgia have longstanding military cooperation agreements with Israel. In 2005, Georgian companies received some $24 million in military contracts funded out of U.S. military assistance to Israel under the so-called “Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program”.

a few days ago in one of his articles, pepe escobar wrote

Beyond Lebanon, Israel is mostly interested also in Syria. The motive: the all-important pipeline route from Kirkuk, in Iraqi Kurdistan, to Haifa. Enter Israel as a major player in Pipelineistan.
So Israel wants to grab water (and territory) from Palestine, water (and territory) from Lebanon and oil from Iraq. This all has to do with the inevitable – the 21st-century energy wars.

Posted by: b real | Jul 27 2006 18:18 utc | 66

thanks for the chossudovsky link b real

Posted by: annie | Jul 27 2006 18:38 utc | 67

billmon wrote:
“Does this then imply a probable widening of the war, with bombing of Syria and possibly Iran?”
I truly don’t know, and it irritates me a bit that so many people seem to think they DO know — based on what evidence I don’t know.

No attack on Iran (for the 29th time.)
On the evidence that:
the US army is overstretched, and now clapped out, close to rebellious – draft not possible
Iran has about a milllion soldiers more or less ready to go, its territory is HUGE, impossible to hold with grunts
the military are thus against
the potential gains (no clear plans) are moot
soft power should be, could be, well, more effective
creating chaos is good sometimes but nukes actually destroy for ever access to ressources – building infrastructure in completely hostile broken down and contaminated territory is impossible (Iraq is close)
waking up the muslim beast – beyond a certain point – is a mistake
China and Russia might benefit in the long run
it would alienate all ‘allies’ for ever
it would impossible to win (e.g. Lebanon) without complete destruction, and backlash would erupt everywhere
The rock and the dark place…
(I haven’t read all the posts above but will … )

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 27 2006 19:34 utc | 68

The tankers and/or future pipelines go to Ashkelon, which is close to Gaza, not Lebanon (pipeline branches out from there.) One of the plans is to pipe water to Israel, not sure its in the links, they are just overview.
Chossudovsky makes a good point; the whole ME has to be secured. Militarily.
Geographically speaking, though, South Lebanon is not directly concerned, for the moment, as far as I can see. But the distances are small…who knows.
Map
Eilat Ashkenon pipeline
Water Technology Israel
Alexander gas and oil connection

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 27 2006 20:08 utc | 69


US may increase Iraq force by delaying departures

Geez, these guys/gals had no ideal how fucked they were going to be..

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 27 2006 20:11 utc | 70