Billmon:
It’s easy for newspaper columnists to fantasize about disunited states, but only madmen would actually try to make them so. Unfortunately, the madmen are out there.
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July 5, 2006
WB: A House Divided
Billmon:
Comments
Interesting analogy with Spain circa mid 1930’s. Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 5 2006 10:14 utc | 1 Interesting analogy indeed, but I wonder if it really holds. One of the reasons that the Spanish civil war became so vicious was outside involvement (Germany and Italy). In that sense, the Spanish civil war was a proxy war, and a portent of WW II. Can’t see that happening in the US. Posted by: Printhead | Jul 5 2006 10:55 utc | 2 There is too much wrong with notions of civil war – American or Spanish. Whatever domestic conflct looms in the US it definitely will be the sound of one hand clapping. To have a civil war or even a divorce you have to have two parties. But one of the supposed dance partners in Billmon’s (or Tierney’s) fantasy of disunion is itself a fantasy. It’s a creation of the lonely hearts club that is so much the conservative movement. Posted by: Gorkle | Jul 5 2006 11:53 utc | 3 I am surprised that Billmon, in this excellant essay, did not address the possible effects, on the potential for civil war, of gerrymandering. I live in a red state, but think, act and vote blue. So do many thousands of other residents of this state, including most of my friends and many of my neighbors. I suspect the same is true for blue state residents: they occupy a state with thousands of red thinking and voting people. Because of this hodge-podge, the attempt to discribe states as red or blue, and then to draw conclusions about the overall culture and politics of a given state, is not accurate or even helpful. The red-blue description flows from voting patterns, where winners take all, even if they win by a small majority, or even by a plurality. This may change, now that we have SCOTUS officially approved gerrymandering that can keep a particular political party in power for decades. If the Democrats in blue states gerrymander to keep themselves in power, and Republicans do the same in red state, as has happened in Texas, it is possible, perhaps even likely, that this country will experience a large scale internal migration of modernists to blue states and traditionalists to red. Something along the line of what happened in Spain, but without the bleeding. The long term implications of such a transformative migration for civil war in America are not so clear to me. If we are all, more or less, residing in a venue with others of like mind and sensibilities, we may all be happier and less likely to want to fight with the guys in the next state over: Live and let live. On the other hand, the tensions in Congress and the Presidency could become unbearable and not amenable to political workouts. If that happens, those living in blue states, or in red states, may decide they want a Congress and President of their own, without the bother of those retarded/libertine/unholy/authoritarian/socialistic/gay/facist/etc bastards across the river or across the mountain range. I can imagine a situation in which the hard line blues and the hard line reds actually agree upon the desireability and necessity of splitting the continent into two Nations, only to be opposed by traditional Nationalists, and the armed forces. Since this is all speculative, I do not feel the necessity to reach some conclusion as to the final outcome. Indeed, I feel most comfortable with the concept of the American nation as an ongoing experiment, based upon the very good work of the founding brothers, which may not be finally resolved, but will go on, limping along in our extraordinarily inefficient manner of doing things. Posted by: Doran Williams | Jul 5 2006 12:40 utc | 4 Hom it might start: STACLU pogrom is a resounding success
Watching An Inconvienent Truth reminded be of a thought I had some years ago–that Bush’s victory over Gore was an expression of premillenial tension. Gore got painted as the dorky third-wave technocrat against the ur-American male, a glad-handing frat boy who managed to be both Northern old-money and Southern good-old-boy, a WASP redneck. Excellent and thought-provoking essay about an issue that keeps popping up in the mainstream press. In addition to German and Italian influence in Spain, religion was also a factor, a point that actually enhances Billmon’s analogy with the US. But in the long run, I don’t think we’re poised for a similar civil war. More likely, we’re headed for a replay of something like the 1960s, a culture war turned violent in the streets and on college campuses. Absent from all the analysis, however, is the role of nationalism itself, especially in the face of globalization. Just as the insidious “international” dogged the nation-state in the late nineteenth century and eventually led to twentieth-century wars, revolutions, and population displacements (ethnic cleansing), it is the phenomenon that most accurately contrasts with political identity today. Internal national divisions, such as between red and blue or traditionalist and modernist reflect this contrast: God & Country versus a cosmopolitan liberalism. Posted by: hood | Jul 5 2006 14:32 utc | 7 hard to keep up w/ this new revisionism… i was always taught that there were three “america’s” – north america, central america, and south america 😉 Posted by: b real | Jul 5 2006 14:50 utc | 9 Mr. Hood. We do have poets who can tap into and articulate. Now, they are known as singer/songwriters, and you probably will not hear them on the Top Twenty, C&W, Jazz, and Oldies but Goodies radio stations. You need to go to the “alternate” stations, or shows, like KUT in Austin and San Angelo, and some of the West Coast stations, where the private and small labels are played. In fact, these song writers have something going for them that Lorca did not — melody and rhythm — which make their messages much more powerful than that of the best of poets. Posted by: Doran Williams | Jul 5 2006 15:11 utc | 10 The what if game over what if the US had split in two has many other threads. Firstly the territorial west would have been the scene of many fights regarding which side they should give their statehood to. Only California was a state before secession I believe. All other territories might have had bruising fights about it. Existing states in the old union might have had such fights as well. It is easy to imagine even Indiana or Ohio or the southern portions of them wanting to go Confederate. Such states as well might have split up. Posted by: rapier | Jul 5 2006 15:50 utc | 11 I recall a map made by a college student that called the Red States areas “Jesus Land” and “Dumbfuckistan” but those are only amusing and too simplistic to really represent our current culture clash. But each state is its own red, blue and other mosaic. To create a political divide over these crudely drawn borders denies the reality of how complex America’s cultural scene really is. Generalizing the complex always results in errors. In a sense, giving in to this simplistic impulse even as entertainment encourages the Rovians who like to paint states red and run steam rollers over the millions of liberals there that still want their blue voices to be heard, considered, and remembered. It also lends an illusion of permanency to the current regime’s propaganda effort’s big lie: that current, dearly bought and paid for party allegiances are somehow permanent and not transitory. The religious right, for example, is a bitterly contentious movement even in Evangelical Christianity. It is fragmentary, unstable, prone to changing alliances, and frankly artificial. But the Rovians and that Lying Sack of Frist would love liberals and other thinking people to assume that it is an unbreakable, solid wall. Remember the fate of the Moral Majority? They went bust too and our dear Korean Messiah Sun Myung Moon not only had to bail Jerry Falwell’s Liberty College out to the tune of $4,000,000, but also bailed Falwel’s organization out of a $73,000,000 bond failure. Given time, old runs of propaganda will sputter out, graduates of Patrick Henry College will be doing what they’re really qualified for: pumpimg gas and greeting people at Walmart (instead of getting quick, cushy jobs with Cheney, Inc), and the religious and fundamentalist conservatives will go back to doing what they do best: annoying people by ringing door bells to proselytize and hating each other with undying passion. In the end, it is not the Red State/Blue State divide that’s the source of true angst. Its the take over of our political structure and institutions by faceless, cash bloated, unaccountable global corporations and their predatory lobbiests. You want a civil war? Fight these! Posted by: Diogenes | Jul 5 2006 16:09 utc | 12 With the slaves states out of the Union, the underground railroad and other agencies freeing slaves and fomenting slave rebellion would have been free to operate, meaning that escaped slaves would have only had to make it to the nearest free state, not Canada. Further, there would have been massive internal pressure in the North not to do business with the South for various reasons, and the Southern economy was dependent on the North to buy its agricultural product and send back industrial ones. If simply left to its own devices by the North, the Southern slave economy would not have been viable and would have collapsed of its own accord. The slave states would either have had to start a war of their own accord against the North or would have had to come back to the negotiating within a few years, begging to be re-admitted to the Union under extremely unfavorable terms (from their perspective). Posted by: heatkernel | Jul 5 2006 16:25 utc | 13 tremendous essay. I wonder how the dynamics of globalism’s affect on labor reproduces some of these culturally divicive issues? The expanding service economy, fed by expanding and inflationary credit, along with the deskilling of labor even among the precious “white” collar intellectual workers, require perhaps a cultural legitimation presently unavailable. the painful “refeudalization” of labor felt in part by “native” workers who are losing jobs to immingrants, and the ways in which knowledge work is exported to southern india, china, korea, etc. combine to reshape class conflict as the more obvious antagonism between global capital and the coercively managed mobility of workers from dayton to hong kong. and yet, the old cultural tropes and their geographic saliencies fail both to legitimate global exploitation of labor and provide workers with adequate expressions of an emerging reality of global capitalist domination. what we witness now I think is the intensified crackup between the forces and social relations of production. the old workhorses of legitimation–nationalism, unionization, faith, bread & circus–no longer adequately explain the disconmtinuities and outright contradictions of globalist immiseration of workers, and therefore “culture” fails utterly to legitimate the social relations needed to sustain late capital accumulation. Posted by: slothrop | Jul 5 2006 16:33 utc | 14 In the USA there is a cultural war and wedge politics is exploiting it. But, so far corporate media has kept their owners portfolios growing by depicting a rosy scenario for the US economy. But, Future Shock is coming: Humiliating retreat from Iraq, Foreigners stop buying US debt, or Peak Oil; or a Trifecta of all at once. When the economy goes south and if the current leaders are in charge, in the YOYO [you’re on your own] economy, New Orleans Redux, a Mad Max world will erupt. The only question is will the money managers see beyond their portfolios and tax cuts to support modernists like Al Gore who will at least try to insure the possibility that their families will survive the Third Revolution. Posted by: Jim S | Jul 5 2006 16:37 utc | 15 one more minor objection, and this point is inspired in part by van crevald. the spain analogy is at best tantilizing because the crisis today is the historically novel diminution of the state as autochthonous agent. fighting it out in the u.s. as cold or hot “culture war” will not result in any benefit whatsoever to american workers. I’m not saying people won’t try. on any number of rightwing websites you’ll find a real eagerness now to murder “liberals.” yet, global capitalist class who control the means of violence will not permit such fracture and state-bounded instability of conflict intended in the end to enable regions like the american red states to opt-out of the global system. no way jose. we will have our detours of stupidity, but unlike spain, there’s no country worth fighting for. neither the salvation of workers, nor the future success of global capitalism, can any longer be found in the state. Posted by: slothrop | Jul 5 2006 16:48 utc | 16 Billmon: Compared to most countries, America has been very lucky so far — those kind of passions have only erupted in massive bloodshed once (well, twice if you count the original revolution.) Posted by: gylangirl | Jul 5 2006 16:58 utc | 17 Then the ideological right/left targeting would break out in both red and blue states. Posted by: slothrop | Jul 5 2006 17:24 utc | 18 can I say one more thidng? this topic & essay are bloody interesting. Posted by: slothrop | Jul 5 2006 17:31 utc | 19 @slothrop – this did in fact occur in the complex formula of the new deal, in which costs were socialized, benefitting capital greatly. In Franco’s Spain, what happened to the moderate, reasonable powers that went along with the fascist program? Were they finally purged when they were no longer needed by the hardliners? Posted by: ferd | Jul 5 2006 19:20 utc | 22 I’m thinking of a moderate business Republican who might be making tons of money right now, going along to get along, but whose business might slowly die off, eventually, as the corruption solidifies and the contracts all start flowing to businesses controlled by the inner party. Posted by: ferd | Jul 5 2006 19:23 utc | 23 I guess our founders might urge today’s moderate, honest Republicans to remember that it’s largely the corrupt bastards in the OTHER party who keep your own party in check, and who keep the corrupt bastards in your own party from eating YOU alive. Posted by: ferd | Jul 5 2006 19:26 utc | 24 b Posted by: slothrop | Jul 5 2006 19:29 utc | 25 Seems to me the political class, –and that is what we are talking about here- look out for their own, to a point, then ‘like rats on a sinking ship’… Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 5 2006 19:36 utc | 26 Had the Confederacy prevailed, there is little chance that it would have remained intact for long, it too might simply have continued subdividing itself into separate entities, the Trans-Mississippi States or the Gulf Coast States, etc., each with its own quaint petty dictators and foreign entanlements. Posted by: ralphieboy | Jul 5 2006 20:07 utc | 27 @ Slothrop: The age that the west is facing is going from the industrial age to the service age with a banking monopoly that has enticed the industrial age (pensioners) to leverage on property prices to fund their kids in the service age. Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 5 2006 21:59 utc | 28 and if there are any separatist movements out there looking to peel off a few states they’re keeping it pretty quiet Posted by: b real | Jul 5 2006 22:17 utc | 30 It seems that a lot of people are confused by two quite separate occurrences one of which can sometimes follow the other but only with outside assistance and then the occurrence becomes a third thing altogether. Confusing ? Yeah sorry its early and cold so synapses are still warming up. Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 5 2006 22:54 utc | 31 Re: please explain.
Posted by: Argh | Jul 5 2006 23:57 utc | 32 internal collapse of the power structure. Posted by: slothrop | Jul 6 2006 0:06 utc | 33 very nice read, billmon. argh- even so, the above mentioned Liberty League conspired to assassinate FDR. stevend has a kos post on this moment. this is from david harvey’s take on the present form of deterritorialized global capitalist class and the limited forms of counterhegemony available to workers. reterritorializing confrontation yields quite limited reforms. this failure of “reterritorialization” of struggle adds a bit more support to the view that splitting the u.s. up is unproductive in any case. even the course of reform staked out as a global new deal reform is limited by the enormous problems of underconsumption and overaccumulation solved, as the great depression, by the annihilation of idle capital in war.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 6 2006 2:24 utc | 36 A focus on Posted by: razor | Jul 6 2006 3:28 utc | 37 Billmon’s analogy is fatally flawed. He’s Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 6 2006 3:34 utc | 38 If you noticed the missing leg of the US trifecta, Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 6 2006 3:43 utc | 39 “…remember, the Jews who participated in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, even those who went on what they thought were suicide missions, had a higher rate of survival than those who did not fight back. Never forget that.” – derrick jensen Posted by: b real | Jul 6 2006 3:50 utc | 40 Without the small but activist Radical Republicans secession might have been delayed if not avoided and or the war might not have been fought. The common thread linking those Radical Republicans from todays version is a moral absolutism based upon a belief that the American nation has a special place in Gods plan and that the nation must serve God. Posted by: rapier | Jul 6 2006 11:34 utc | 41 For Whom The Billmon Tolls Very thought provoking posts. Actually both the American Revolution and the Civil War were elite driven succession movements. There may be another elite revolution underway. 50% of Americans working for government? Fire them and get rid of the all those pensions. More money for the elites. Russia 1991 replayed in America. Posted by: Jim S | Jul 6 2006 19:49 utc | 43 Another interesting parallel between the Spanish Civil War and today was Spain’s long, inconclusive occupation of Morocco. Posted by: NickM | Jul 6 2006 21:09 utc | 44 @Jim S re:15
Also see, my 29 Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 6 2006 22:42 utc | 45 As things stand the differences between Red and Blue are not statistically significant, or practically important. Red and Blue are mixed all over, and Democrats and Republicans maintain legitmacy by false opposition – e.g. arabs owning ports, gay marriage, or Kerry making the brilliant move of writing to Negroponte to protest the closing of the cell that is supposed to chase and catch Bin Laden. All these things are utterly insignificant, or handled quietly behind the scenes in complete agreement; it is distractive flim-flam, designed to keep people from thinking about real issues – ever. The ersatz left-right differences in opinion will melt like snow under the sun-tan lamp once any kind of disaster comes. Right now, they are a symbol of luxury, a sweet narcissistic shadow play, an affirmation of identity that obscures world events. Lastly, the poor in the US will not rise up or rebel against their masters. They won’t be able to. And no one will take up their cause (contra Spain, which was not Spanish but European.) Posted by: Noirette | Jul 7 2006 19:14 utc | 46 |
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