Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 13, 2006
Out Of Proportion

Somehow this was not a good day to wake up. First I found that TypePad had eaten yesterday’s posts and comments and then I started to read the news, which are terrible.

Hamas has abducted an Israeli soldier some days ago to press for a few of the 9,000 Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails to be freed. Since then, Israel has responded with wrath.

More than 70 people in Gaza have been killed. The last strike did murder seven children in one strike. The indended target escaped. The only powerstation has been bombed (it’s insured by American taxpayers, so it will be rebuild one day), water and sewage systems are out of function and yesterday the Israel Defense Force did cut the strip into two halfs.

Also yesterday Hezbollah killed three Israeli soldiers and abducted two in a raid from south Lebanon into north Israel. The Israeli cabinet puts the responsibility on the Lebanese government even though that government has no control over Hezbollah and the south. It also does not have the ability to achieve such a control.

Hezbollah positions in south Lebanon get bombed and Hezbollah is firing Katyushas into Israels north. But Israel also bombed the Beirut airport, the only international one, and roads and bridges in central Lebanon.

Like in Gaza, Israel does take the whole population hostage for what some untouchable fringe groups in their mids do. This is totally out of proportion and a war crime.

The international community is standing by and doing nothing. Russia and China are said to have made a deal with the "west" to put Iran in front of the UN security committee. Some think they exchanged North Korea for Iran, but I do not see how that would make any sense.

The middle east situation is escalating too fast. Though Israel does not yet threaten Syria and Iran over the Hezbollah and Hamas actions, that may change any hour. An air attack on Damaskus might be near. A US air attack on Iran is possible. Olmert and Peretz try to prove to be harder hardliners than Sharon ever was. On all sides the lunatics are in control.

In Iraq the death are piling up. The US military asks to reinforce its troops in Baghdad.

Ledeen’s wet dream of a big cauldron in the Middle East is coming true. Are there any sane people left who can stop this?

Comments

On all sides the lunatics are in control.
Boy, you could say that again.
Syria Will End Dollar Peg, Moves Reserves to Euros
And if that isn’t enough…US blames Iran, Syria for Hizbollah capture
Who woulda thunk it…
This is my shocked face.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 13 2006 7:03 utc | 1

Maybe w/Russia & China cutting a deal removed the final obstacle so now Israel can be used as the fuse to ultimately draw xUS into Iran. (Don’t Iran & Syria have a mutual defense pact?)
Ze’ev Schiff, respected Haaretz writer weighs in…and it’s ugly…if this is Israel’s “liberal” wing…
Israel has no choice but to hold Lebanon responsible for what happens in its borders and for what comes out of it. Lebanon will likely wail as Israel strikes inside its territory and hits its infrastructure, but the Lebanese government must see itself as responsible for what Hezbollah does out of Lebanon. Particularly since Lebanon essentially rejected UN resolution 1559, which called for disarming the militia. Hamas and Hezbollah made the rules of the game with the ongoing rocket fire into Israel and the abduction of Israeli soldiers. If Israel loses in handling this, its strategic and military standing in the region will change and its deterrence of guerrilla warfare and high-trajectory weapons will be undermined.

It is better to focus on upcoming developments and the question of how to conduct a war on two and maybe three fronts. Hopefully Israel’s leaders will give up the harsh words and exaggerated threats we have seen in the past two weeks.
Israel’s options now are aggression on two fronts. Israeli would best act cautiously in order not to open a third front with Syria, unless Damascus taunts Israel.
Clearly Israel will strike Lebanese infrastructure related to Hezbollah and may expand its targets in its wrath.
ANALYSIS: Israel is at risk of embarking on three-front war
Just what constitutes “taunting Israel”?
Ah yes, here it is, from Feb. 17 Guardian:
Iran and Syria heightened tension across the Middle East and directly confronted the Bush administration yesterday by declaring they had formed a mutual self-defence pact to confront the “threats” now facing them.
The move, which took the Foreign Office by surprise, was announced after a meeting in Tehran between the Iranian vice-president, Mohammed Reza Aref, and the Syrian prime minister, Naji al-Otari.
“At this sensitive point, the two countries require a united front due to numerous challenges,” said Mr Otari.
Regarded as rogue states by the White House, Iran is under pressure over its nuclear ambitions, while Syria came under renewed scrutiny over the assassination this week of the former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri.
Yesterday’s announcement came as the Israeli foreign minister, Silvan Shalom, predicted that Tehran would have the knowledge to produce a nuclear weapon within six months.
Iran and Syria confront US with defence pact

Posted by: jj | Jul 13 2006 7:32 utc | 2

So anybody who thought the neo-cons may have crawled in to a corner can now see how the plan, once put in motion, has continued to take its own course. At the very begining of Iraq war quite a few smart people said that the plan was to destabilize the entire middle east and look how close it is. The faces have changed but the plan remains and if the Democrats win come November the plan will continue on its predetermined trajectory. Can you see why it was important to get Syria out of Lebanon, the force which brought stability to The Country after a wretched civil war? Yeah, they had to break a few eggs to get that accomplished, like killing a few people, but it got done, didn’t it? After destroying Iraq as a viable society now we move on to Lebanon, after that Syria, by then Iran under sanctions and various other international pressures will start to fray. Five maybe ten years, but we’ll get there. Failed states all around. Then there is the flair up in Afghanistan and ratcheting up the old Pakistan/India issue and Ladeen’s wettest dream is come true (well that will be nuking Iran but you get my drift).
Max

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 13 2006 7:35 utc | 3

Haaretz ticker: Israel to block all air and sea traffic to/from Lebanon.

Posted by: b | Jul 13 2006 7:42 utc | 4

Another Haaretz ticker bit: France calls IDF offensive “disproportionate act of war”

Posted by: jj | Jul 13 2006 8:26 utc | 5

On at least three previous occasions BushCo stooges using the NY Times as their soapbox have claimed the Russians and Chinese are on side to deliver the coup de grace to Iran’s uranium enrichment. It hasn’t happened and it won’t happen. There is absolutely no upside for Russia, China or a number of the EU states in being part of Iranian sanctions. This ‘communique’ is a small favour to BushCo in return for a large one elsewhere.
The large one elsewhere is that amerika may stop droning on about GWOT at the G8 meeting in Moscow long enough to get some real business done.
That hasn’t stopped Vlad the retailer from taking a few ‘shots’:
Putin hits back at Cheney with ‘hunting shot’ jibe

President Vladimir Putin called US vice-president Dick Cheney’s criticisms of Russia “an unsuccessful hunting shot”, according to a transcript of a television interview released yesterday by the Kremlin.
The remark, from an interview given to the US television network NBC, apparently referred to the errant shot by Mr Cheney on a hunting trip that wounded a companion. . . “

Even New Pravda acknowledges it’s limpwristedness in the body of the story.
“Once the meeting is over, that leverage over Moscow will be gone.
Indeed, any sanctions are still far off. . . “

This blather along with the current horrorshows dotted around the world in particular the M.E. are all part of an attempt at an alternative to an October surprise.
IMO BushCo can’t find a way to achieve a substantial domestic action at the moment because too many are wise to the game which makes the risk/reward ratio shithouse.
So a general global climate of fear is being organised to try and scare the voters into ‘sense’.
Amerikan foreign policy is doing everything it can to be annoying and intimidating toward those who common sense would indicate a more mellow approach would be more likely to achieve long term results.
Then there is the background slaughter around the world that will contribute to the climate of ‘anarchy’.
These operations are safe to pull off because of there was any blowback most amerikans wouldn’t even notice.
My inability to sleep had me watching the Bombay horror show of the other night unfold.
There are a number of weird touches that make it a strange piece of work.
The first thing that struck moi was that 45 minutes after all 7 bombs had exploded the security and forensic police hadn’t even got to the site of the first one.
For those who would use this to ‘prove’ Indian inefficiency it should be noted that ambulance, fire fighters, and ordinary police were on the spot within a few minutes, as were the TV camera crews.
These were not suicide attacks the bombs were placed in overhead storage lockers on the trains and most of the force of the bombs was directed outwards which fortunately minimised casualties.
So this wasn’t a classic ‘terror’ attack.
Yet strangely this wasn’t a classic infrastructure attack either. Mumbai is India’s business andfinancial centre, however unlike London or Madrid the bombs were detonated as commuters returned home for the day, so the clean up crews had all night to straighten everything out. This meant that also unlike London or Madrid, Mumbai didn’t miss a beat. It was business as usual the following day, all trains were running.
There were 8 bombs planted and one didn’t explode. That may be deliberate to point the finger at a certain nation currently in a close embrace with India for the first time in yonks. Equally it could be bad luck. However putting together 8 bombs on 8 different trains and having them all (well 7) explode within a 10 minute interval completely unforseen, undetected, and uninterrupted is no mean feat.
This is not a feat that a ‘ragtag’ bunch of idealistic jihadists could put together.
This reeks of state sanctioned/supplied slaughter;
Pakistan lacks motive so we need ask ourselves who profuts from this massacre.
The miracle is that so far there haven’t been any pogroms. The slightest hint of hindu deaths from sectarianism normally has gangs of thugs running through Islamic ghettos murdering, raping and looting in most of the major urban centres throughout India.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 13 2006 9:06 utc | 6

Sorry about the site problems, Bernhard. (No it wasn’t me.)
As for the coming instability, I agree and I’ve been saying this for a while. The money has been stolen, the contracts are signed, the hornets nest is stirred. “We are fighting them over there so we don’t …”
Who gave you the right to mess up our world like this. Bastards.
Love is the answer to fear. Fear of job loss, fear of looking bad in front of peers, fear of all those different looking people.
I have no other answer — people are by nature friendly and nice. In our wealth there is not one reason that we should be afraid yet that is the only reason I can see that those who could make a difference — not just voters but whistleblowers, writers, controllers of the actual machine of the media, and of the law such as courts and investigators and police — simply stand by.
Are they ignorant? If so why. The facts are clear, atrocities are being committed and the knowledge is public. I feel that the average people of the world, if they had the facts, should be appalled and demand that these injustices must end.
Yet only this tiny fragment of our mediated bubble, I mean we news junkies with the Internet, seem to care. Other people in the world seem pretty informed too and the ones I have met, non-Westerners, are opposed.
But is human nature so easily corruptible that they can get away with this crap. It’s not easy making your way, I mean to make a decent living and still have a clear conscience, but I will not let them off the charge of manslaughter by finding them guilty only of laziness.
Anyway, I started off to say that this act, the US behavior since Bush was elected, acts of war, has already been incredibly successful. It will outlast the current President and VP.
Problems in the Middle East have been brewing and conflict there seems inevitable, but this crew has thrown the spanner into the works bigtime, to their own profit and to the degradation of our societies and the death and destruction of at least two nations so far.
Words fail me.

Posted by: jonku | Jul 13 2006 9:23 utc | 7

Logicians have but ill defined
As rational the human mind.
Logic, they say, belongs to man,
But let them prove it if they can.
.

Posted by: Vin Carreo | Jul 13 2006 10:07 utc | 8

Lebanese bloggers

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 13 2006 10:51 utc | 9

The MSM sets us up:

A common thread in the three crises is Iran — for its support of the two Islamist groups, its alleged funding and arming of Iraqi militias and extremist groups, and its refusal to give a final response to the Western package of incentives designed to prevent it from converting a peaceful energy program into one to develop nuclear weapons.
“There seems to be a hand in each one of these — Iran’s and Syria’s,” Assistant Secretary of State C. David Welch said in a telephone interview from Amman, Jordan. “Today does cross a threshold because, as Hezbollah has now said, this action was planned. It was intended to escalate and widen the battleground.”
U.S. tensions with Iran have not been this high — or covered so many issues — since the 1979-1981 hostage crisis, said Shaul Bakhash, an Iran expert at George Mason University. Shortly after Iran’s 1979 revolution, 52 Americans were seized at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and held hostage for 444 days.
The common tactic in the three crises appears to be daring defiance by Iran and its allies, particularly in Lebanon, Syria and Gaza, to gain position at the same time they are facing mounting pressures. “Here you have actors who are basically pariahs who are trying to find their way back in. They’re doing it the way they know best — brinksmanship,” said Robert Malley, director of the International Crisis Group’s Middle East program. “They want to change the rules of the game.”
Because of the simultaneous crises, the Bush administration is poised to use the Group of Eight summit of industrialized nations in Moscow this week to rally support against Iran as a bad actor unwilling to embrace the standards of the international community, U.S. officials say. The United States is also pushing for a new resolution at the United Nations next week on Iran’s failure to suspend uranium enrichment.
The White House said it is holding Iran and Syria responsible for the flare-up along Lebanon’s border because of their long-standing support for Hezbollah. It charged that the seizure of two soldiers was deliberately timed to “exacerbate already high tensions in the region and sow further violence.

The cauldron is stirred.

Posted by: Hamburger | Jul 13 2006 11:15 utc | 10

Thanks for that link Uncle. From the lebanese blog:

Something tells me that everything the Israelis are doing right now is preparation for something much bigger. Going somewhere safer. Will try to update as much as I can.

Posted by: b | Jul 13 2006 11:43 utc | 11

Is anyone capable of stoping this Israeli madness?
CHTAURA – Israeli jets struck a Lebanese air force base on Thursday, in the first direct hit against the army since the Jewish state launched its offensive, military officials told AFP.
The warplanes fired missiles on the army base in Rayak, a few kilometers (miles) from the border with Syria, they said.
There was no word on damages or casualties.

This has to be a precursor to a full invasion.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 13 2006 14:37 utc | 12

Lebanese blogs:
Lebanese Bloggers (Uncle’s link
From Beirut to the Beltway
Jamal’s Propaganda Site
Lebanese Blogger Forum
Lebanese Political Journal
Letters Apart
Some of the above and others are aggregated at The Beiruter
Naharnet is a news site with lebanese news
Mona: From Gaza with Love

Posted by: b | Jul 13 2006 14:40 utc | 13

Can anyone comment on what the general sentiment is in Germany regarding the current Israel/hamas/hizbullah mess? I can’t believe Angela Merkel is just letting Bush get away with the comments he made a few hours ago – “every nation has the right to defend itself” (ergo everything Israel is doing is just fine) – – aargh! So Bush’s idea of leadership in this case is just sit back and root for Israel and hope they don’t accidentally end up destroying the new Lebanese government along the way? Whatever happened to the days when the U.S. would have dispatched a special envoy, insisted on ceasefires all around, and started a big round of meetings and diplomacy. May not have solved everything but it kept a lid on the violence and slaughter.

Posted by: maxcrat | Jul 13 2006 17:42 utc | 14

NeoNut War Update (all from Haaretz):
Meanwhile, Israel threatened Thursday to strike at Hezbollah offices in a residential area of Beirut in response to Katyusha strikes on population centers inside Israel.
In response, Hezbollah said that it would target the major northern port city of Haifa.
####
Haaretz ticker update – 2 Katyusha rockets hit Haifa (Northern Israeli Port City) No Injuries
########
Wow – look how fast the NeoNuts can come up w/an excuse to go after Iran:
Israel: Hezbollah plans to move abducted IDF soldiers to Iran
By Amos Harel and Jack Khoury, Haaretz Correspondents
Israel has concrete evidence that Hezbollah plans to transfer the two Israel Defense Forces soldiers abducted Wednesday to Iran, Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said Thursday.
“We have concrete evidence that Hezbollah plans to transfer the kidnapped soldiers to Iran. As a result, Israel views Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran as the main players in the axis of terror and hate that endangers not only Israel, but the entire world,” AFP quoted Deputy Director General of the Foreign Ministry Gideon Meir as saying.
An Al-Jazeera correspondent said Thursday that he had evidence that the two soldiers – identified Thursday as Ehud Goldwasser, 31, of Nahariya, and Eldad Regev, 26, of Kiryat Motzkin – were alive during the abduction. He said they were transferred to a Shi’ite mosque in a nearby town, where the abductors changed clothes. According to the report, one of the soldiers was transferred in a cab, to make it difficult for Israeli intelligence to locate him. The Al-Jazeera correspondent stressed that he had received the information from a source close to Hezbollah, and that members of the organization refuse to disclose more information with nothing in return.
link
########
How reassuring that they put Mr. Gasoline Mouth himself as UN Rep…

Posted by: jj | Jul 13 2006 17:45 utc | 15

German TV says: Hisbollah denies that the fired on Haifa. I tend to believe them as they are otherwise quite proud and loud of what they do.
Can anyone comment on what the general sentiment is in Germany regarding the current Israel/hamas/hizbullah mess?
People hate Bush and Merkel’s ratings are down severly. Out of 1,000 vetted people who should great Bush, only 600 did come.
As of Israel, there are some supporters, but the groundswell and TV news are negative about it because of the disproportionate reactions.

Posted by: b | Jul 13 2006 18:09 utc | 16

b- Interesting. Even as I was posting that I wondered if it was a setup, as Israel is obviously trying to justify an attack on Iran.
Things could be going on behind the scenes – Int’l Crisis Group is Soros’ outfit & he Definitely doesn’t want a war w/Iran. But he hasn’t kowtowed to & otherwise paid off right wing Am. Israeli interests, so those politics are very complicated – or he hadn’t a few yrs. ago when Indonesian PM ripped him for savaging their currency.
Haven’t found good sources of info yet – the you know whos aren’t touching it – maybe if Israel triggers a wider war & they can discuss it w/out mentioning Israel…
Anyway, Dahr Jamail just arrived in Syria – and needs some help defraying his expenses. And Marc Parent is at least focusing on the exploding nightmare. link

Posted by: jj | Jul 13 2006 19:06 utc | 17

Israeli propaganda websites can be useful:
DEBKAfile
Iran’s national security adviser Ali Larijani flies to Damascus aboard special military plane Wednesday night as war tension builds up around Hizballah kidnap of 2 Israeli soldiers
(snip)
The Syrian army has been put on a state of preparedness.
DEBKAfile’s military sources add that the Iranian air force, missile units and navy are also on high alert.
DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources report Hizballah acted on orders from Tehran to open a second front against Israel, partly to ease IDF military pressure on the Hamas in the Gaza Strip. This was in response to an appeal Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal made to the Iranian ambassador to Damascus Mohammad Hassan Akhtari Sunday, July 9.
DEBKAfile’s Iranian sources report Tehran’s rationale as composed of three parts:
1. Iran shows the flag as a champion and defender of its ally, Hamas.
2. Sending Hizballah to open a warfront against Israel is the logical tactical complement to its latest order to go into action against American and British forces in southern Iraq.
3. Tehran hopes to hijack the agenda before the G-8 summit opening in St. Petersberg, Russia on July 15. Instead of discussing Iran’s nuclear case and the situation in Iraq along the lines set by President George W. Bush, the leaders of the industrial nations will be forced to address the Middle East flare-up
(snip)
——-
Just like when listening to Rush Limbag, it helps to turn around partisan attacks to the opposite party. In this article, perhaps we should transpose Item #3 above (ie “hijacking the agenda”) as the intentions of Israel/U.S., and not the intentions of Iran. Am I being too skeptical here, as Bush/Olmert look for reasons to go attack Iran?

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 14 2006 1:19 utc | 18

So, Israel is blockading the whole of Lebanon as if it were Gaza strip, and is directly bombing military targets as well as civilian ones? Lebanon being an independant country, member of UN.
So, they’re basically beginning a war of aggression, or am I nuts?
Isn’t that kind of things, well, highly illegal, according to international laws?

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jul 14 2006 1:27 utc | 19

Uncle etc, isn’t DEBKA Mossad etc?

Posted by: jj | Jul 14 2006 1:48 utc | 20

B, can we have a thread to discuss the people in power in the Israel/Palestine mess at present? When Sharon and Arafat died, and Hamas took over, I feel like I lost track of who was doing what. It doesn’t help, I’m sure, that I haven’t read Uri Averny recently.

Posted by: Rowan | Jul 14 2006 3:23 utc | 21

Isn’t that kind of things, well, highly illegal, according to international laws?
It’s evil, for sure. Stupid – you bet. But “international laws” is a fraudulent term. Ever heard of Grozny? Darfour? Falujah? Tibet?

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 14 2006 3:43 utc | 22

Very scarey. In the past the USA would try to play the middleman. Not any more. The Haifa rocket attacks assure escalation to prevent further attacks.
Iran and Syria are corporate media’s villains. With leaders making their own reality, an Israeli and American bombing campaign of Syrian and Iran isn’t too far away. “The Guns of August” sequel that will only be missing the crowds of innocents waving flags.

Posted by: Jim S | Jul 14 2006 3:48 utc | 23

From Mitchell Prothero’s Salon article, a conversation with a Lebanese man at the funeral for Sayeed Adel Akkash, a Shiite cleric probably associated with Hezbollah, and his family who were killed when an Israeli air raid leveled their home:
A man named Tahir Ahmed asks me where I am from. When I tell him, without a trace of hostility he asks me to “tell the American people we are thankful for your country because it gives weapons to Israel that are used to kill our children.”
I begin to talk to Tahir Ahmed about this statement, and he elaborates. “We distinguish between your people and your government. But if your country did not cover Israel, then Israel could not do these things. There is a big error in the mentality of the American people. Because of movies and Hollywood, you think like cowboys. There is a good guy and a bad guy. And you see the Arab as the bad guy and the Jew as a good guy. It is naive to see only good and bad in the world.”
“If Hezbollah kidnapped two soldiers, this is a matter between two military groups. Why do they involve children? She was not attacking Tel Aviv,” he says of Akkash’s 6-month-old daughter, killed in the strike. “She was sleeping with her family. I hope the American people think of a 6-month-old-girl killed with an American fighter, flown by an Israeli pilot. If she was with a soldier at the front, then these things happen. But she was asleep with her family.”

Posted by: conchita | Jul 14 2006 3:51 utc | 24

This surprises me a little:
Harper sides firmly with Israel, ‘onus’ on hostage-takers to stop the conflict
Link to canada.com
Gee, I wonder how the Canadian population feels about this?

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 14 2006 4:03 utc | 25

Hezbollah spanked the IDF and sent them home last time they occupied southern Lebanon.
Any reason it will turn out any different this time?

Posted by: ran | Jul 14 2006 4:48 utc | 26

that Harper sides with Israel is no surprise and many find him refreshingly decisive
Evangelicals creep me out

His church follows in traditions normally associated with American evangelicalism, a brand of Christianity that has a relatively small following in Canada. In that vein, Harper appears to have more in common with President George W. Bush, a born-again Christian, than with his predecessors. At the East Gate Alliance Church, the hymnals even contain the song America, the Beautiful.”

“VISION PRAYER
O God, with all our hearts we long to be:
a movement of churches
transformed by Christ,
transforming Canada and the world.
By your grace and for your glory:
Renew and empower us through a fresh encounter with yourself
Release us to be strategic in service, kingdom-connected in practice,
passionate in pursuit of your mission and mercy
Use us to fulfill your purpose for Canada and the world.”

Posted by: gmac | Jul 14 2006 9:34 utc | 27

Hezbollah spanked the IDF and sent them home last time they occupied southern Lebanon.”
They won’t invade this time. They are going to bomb the shit out of it. The only people who could protect the Lebanese are the Syrians and they have been barred from re entering by the UN AFAIK.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 14 2006 10:59 utc | 28

What happpened to the Haaretz website? Hacking, total military censorship? I just get a blank white page…

Posted by: jj | Jul 14 2006 12:14 utc | 29

@jj – I have on/off trouble with Haaretz too, but I think its their content management system that is in trouble.
But you are right to remember us that all media in Israel indeed have to check their pieces with military censors.

Posted by: b | Jul 14 2006 13:01 utc | 30

International law exists, and people have already swung for it – see Nuremberg trials.

Posted by: Dismal Science | Jul 14 2006 13:35 utc | 31

Dismal Science: I know that laws can be applied to some of those who lose wars. However, even in those cases, lessons are not clear. For example, I have noticed that Europe is largely judenrein. And if you consider Grozny and Falujah, you will see that absent total defeat, it appears that getting away with murder is standard. In practice, International Law is a propaganda device.

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 14 2006 13:45 utc | 32

Indeed, the only de facto war crime is losing a war. And since the Israeli right believes that an Israeli military defeat will inevitably mean the extermination of all Israeli Jews, they believe that they have everything to gain and nothing to lose by breaking international law.

Posted by: George Carty | Jul 14 2006 13:52 utc | 33

It may be applied inadequately, but it is effectively in its infancy.
A few years back I saw of the guys speak, an Australian, who headed up the UN body that drafted the ICC statute. He said that the UN never expected that they would ever get near putting it together, but they did, and I believe Clinton signed even tho’ the US has not ratified (but when does the US ratify anything these days? – see NatWest3 case in UK.) The US was one of the main stumbling blocks against that ever happening, but it happened anyway.
The US has also found to its cost that the type of international law it does favor, that is, trade law, can be used against – see P Sands’s book, Lawless World, for discussion of Mexican case on this.
What is clear is that in the past decades years, a body of custom and practice in int’l law has developed. The US in its current cowboy incarnation has no alternative to offer – what do you suggest? Lawless world?

Posted by: Dismal Science | Jul 14 2006 13:56 utc | 34

@28 – Don’t think they need the reserves they’re calling up just for a bombing campaign.

Posted by: ran | Jul 14 2006 14:32 utc | 35

Bomb the sh*t out of it, or more, right Debs, is that this thread or another, it is so hot here, thought is sluggish.
Le Temps interviewed Dany Yatom (Mossad chief 96-98) My notes of the bare bones:
Around 90, we considered liquidating Nasrallah to be useless. (“?) The rules have changed as our soldiers have been kidnapped. (“?) Nasrallah is no longer protected. (“? direct) /Smiles/ -Time will tell.
We can flatten / crush / squish / run over (écraser) our enemy in ways they cannot yet conceive of.
-o-
Well, one is used to this kind of disourse, and for Swiss media, he would not have minced words. Nevertheless I wondered if he spoke French? – if so, it was coded as apocalyptic menace. Or the translator may have rendered that correctly…or things got lost in translation… anyway…a cold drink is in order.

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 14 2006 16:14 utc | 36

transcript of chomksy interview on democracynow friday

Posted by: b real | Jul 14 2006 16:21 utc | 37

b linked to the one (I couldn’t find any others) non-Arabic scripted Gaza blogger; the little stuff just kills me, talk about disproportionate:
Dear all – it is 11 am, Monday, no electricity in my apartment for the last 18 hours, I’m at home, I shall write in my next blog about my yesterday visit to Al Awda hospital in Jabalia Refugee camp, but now I would like to share with you quickly what I have seen in front of my window, in the last 15 minutes you know that the Gazan fishermen were not allowed to go fishing, since the start of the recent assault against Gaza, fish is expensive and scarce (can you believe it – fish is expensive in the markets of sea town like Gaza), now it is the season for the most cheap fish that most Gazans can afford, it is called Sardine fish, it is small and tasty, cheap and very popular too, for the last 2 weeks, no fish boats were allowed into the sea, even for short depth, today I watched a desperate fishing boat, literally under my window, maybe 150 meters inside the sea, all of a sudden, I started to hear heavy shelling, shooting, quickly I asked Sondos (my daughter) to move to the back of the flat, and with a quick glance, I could see the Israeli gun boat firing around the fishing boat, which had to go back to the port ..
(spacing and spelling corrected by me)
From Gaza with love

Posted by: Noirette | Jul 14 2006 16:24 utc | 38

“I think Israel’s response, under the circumstances, has been measured.” – Stephen Harper

Posted by: gmac | Jul 14 2006 17:20 utc | 39

Dis: I don’t suggest any alternative. But I find the complaints about Israel violating the norm of international behavior to be absurd. Brutality, exercise of raw power without worrying about collateral damage, massive overkill, and so on are the norms of international behavior. When there is some indication that using WP in Falujah or razing Grozny or supplying weapons to the mass murderers in Rwanda will result in punishment, call me.

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 14 2006 18:46 utc | 40

with characterisitic israeli foresight we will now all fall to kingdom come with an added push by that pseudo-nietzschean clown bolton at the u. n.
if syria & iran are not pulled into this by the end of the week – i would consider the abyss a little less close

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 14 2006 18:52 utc | 41

Hezbollah leader says he’s ready for ‘open war’

Posted by: beq | Jul 14 2006 19:18 utc | 42

me, myself, and my Lebanon blog.

STOP BURNING MY COUNTRY YOU COWARDS. THE WHOLE WORLD IS ASLEEP!!!

Posted by: beq | Jul 14 2006 19:34 utc | 43

some local knowledge from a diary on dailykos, a woman of lebanese descent advises another who has family members from california visiting family in an area in southern lebanon w here leaflets hae been dropped by the israelis advising evacuation – but how:

I’m from the same area – my advice
My relatives live in a Christian village in the suburbs of Saida (Sidon), called Mieh-Mieh.
It’s not good if your family’s people have been told to evacuate by the Israelis. They should try to walk into the hillsides and basically, get to a Christian village. My village is walking distance to downtown Saida. But the question is – water supplies and other supplies.
There are also caves in the area for shelter, the local people know how to reach them. You should bring water and food. Go to the church in Mieh-Mieh at the top of the hill facing Saida, that is my suggestion. Do not go to the Palestinian part of Mieh-Mieh, that’s a target too. Tell your family to beg in the name of St. George and St. Elias. Tell them to wave their American passports. Tell them to bring their own water and food, and bedrolls if possible but that’s the less priority. My uncle says there’s enough gas in his generator for about 5 to 10 days of water.
Because the bridges north to the airport are bombed. There is no way to get out of LEbanon at the moment. Unless American ships come and send helicopters into Saida. I am very sorry to tell you this. I dearly hope the Israelis don’t bomb Saida, which is a SUNNI town, with a Christian population in town and in the hills.
If your relatives are in a Hizbollah or a Palestinian-controlled area, they should walk out under cover of darkness and get to a safe area. Now.
The US embassy cannot help them at the moment but it never hurts to call your congresspeople and explain the situation. THey can express concern to whomever…
by leilasab on Fri Jul 14, 2006 at 02:41:43 PM EDT

Posted by: conchita | Jul 14 2006 19:38 utc | 44

by all accounts, the situation sounds critical right now. and there’s concern that events will escalate & possibly spread to other targets. time is of the essence in preventing more deaths. so what’s up w/ this: a.n.s.w.e.r. announces “National Emergency March on Washington” to defend palestine & lebanon and “Stop the U.S.-Israeli War”. well that’s good. the faster any groups can organize to put pressure on the political establishment to act quickly, the more lives can possible be saved. so when it the emergency march? Saturday, August 12, 12 Noon! WTF??? emergency for whom?

Posted by: b real | Jul 14 2006 21:16 utc | 45

Brutality, exercise of raw power without worrying about collateral damage, massive overkill, and so on are the norms of international behavior.
Well, I disagree.
The UN Charter, and the specific instances of intl law that flow from it, were born out of the slaughter of 60 millions in WW2. Averting the “scourge of war” is one of the UN’s specific aims, but of course this is a huge ask, and we are only beginning to get to grips with it. The worldwide demonstrations in Feb 2003, before the Iraq war started, are I think evidence that populations take this commitment seriously, if not yet governments.
The arrest of Pinochet also sent shockwaves thro’ the intl community in respect of immunity for heads of state for the decisions to commit violence they take while in power. That decision took 30 years to kick in, OK, but I fully expect Bliar to be hounded for the rest of his days by Iraqi groups demanding justice from the intl courts for the illegal invasion of Iraq and the mayhem that followed, and that Iraqis will attempt to claim reparations for this illegal damage and death based on post-WW 2 case law.
Intl law is slow, it takes a long time, and I would prefer swifter, solutions, but I would also not want to throw out the Geneva Conventions, for example, even tho’ it has taken years to get the US to a position of admitting that they must apply to the kidnapped bakers and taxi drivers currently banged up in Gitmo.
You refer to a category of events called violating the norm of international behavior, but I’m not really sure what that means.
I think one of the ways that we avoid the hypocrisy and bloody mayhem that flow from our banal rhetoric about “freedom” and “democracy” is if we have specific instances when violations of intl law can be brought to book.
That the state of Israel does not observe intl law (and hasn’t since 1967) I find especially reprehensible given that it came into being as a result of an intl legal decision. Biting the hand that feeds?

Posted by: Dismal Science | Jul 15 2006 14:41 utc | 46

Before I get thru all the other posts here, I just want to say thanks for the Lebanese Bloggers link, Uncle Scam. I gather from it that Hezbollah is working for Syria in order to destabalize the newly formed Lebanese government.
You’d think Israel would have figured that out before providing kneejerk assistance to Syria…. Or perhaps Israel thinks they can grab some more land from a war with Lebanon. Think those displaced Gaza settlers could use it?

Posted by: gylangirl | Jul 15 2006 14:45 utc | 47

Dismal:
As an American, I feel that my responsibility is squarely on violations of “law” by the US. Since we are currently murdering many people in Iraq during a “pre-emptive” invasion and occupation, followed by failure to meet responsibilities of an occuppying power, massive irrational use of firepower and widespread use of white phosphorous, rapes, murders, torture and so on, it seems pretty damn clear that there is a problem. In this situation for Americans to be jumping up and down screaming about Isreali violations of International Law, seems a trifle peculiar. The same can be said for the Europeans: the UK is up to their ass in Iraq, the French have been shooting civilians in Ivory Coast, which I understand is supposed to be an independent nation even if accepting that requires accepting that black people may be in charge and so on.
The situation in Israel is not at all straightforward. On the one side, we have violent and brutal Israeli government that practices collective punishment, imposes a particularly nasty form of apartheid/maquiladora economics, and has left millions of Gaza and West Bank human beings in total squalor. On the other side we have an insane Hamas organization funded by Saudi kleptocrats organizing repeated horrific attacks on civilians and insisting on a religious war of extermination against Jews/Masons/Rotarians, Fatah which has seamlessly transitioned from terror to Swiss Banking, Hizbolla which shares some of Hamas ideology but also believes Sunni Arabs need to be punished for killing Ali, Syria which a few years ago murdered 10,000 of its own citizens for complaining too loudly and so on. It appears to me that people who point into this mess and locate any one particular nation or group as the foundational cause of problems are either stupid or ill intentioned. I’m particularly suspicious when Europeans, only 60 years after exterminating a 1000 year old Jewish civilization with enormous enthusiasm, and still profiting mightily from their own 500 year old campaign to loot the world sniff about the vile Jews and their flouting of international norms.

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 15 2006 15:11 utc | 48

Speaking of out of proportion:
Report: Israel gives Syria ultimatum
“Washington has information according to which Israel gave Damascus 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity along the Lebanon-Israel border and bring about the release the two kidnapped IDF soldiers or it would launch an offensive with disastrous consequences.”
Is this true? If it is, this could be real bad.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 15 2006 15:57 utc | 49

From Nir Rosen’s book:
IN LATE JUNE [2003] rumors abounded in Baghdad of Jews and Israelis buying land and property. University students handed out leaflets on the streets warning of the Jews swarming their city to “buy homes, control the media, and control trade.” The University of Baghdad’s walls were pasted with leaflets beseeching Muslim brothers not to sell their land regardless of the price, because it would go to the Jews. The leaflets singled out the lqal hotel as the base for Jewish investors, and the Samaritan Hospital as full of Jewish doctors. At the time that hotel was under renovation, empty of guests, with only a few confused staff who insisted that neither Jews nor anybody else was staying there. The Samaritan Hospital, located next to the Red Cross headquarters, had been opened a decade earlier by an Iraqi Arab, and was also devoid of Jews.
On Friday, June 20, Sheikh Mahmud al-Khalaf spoke at the [58] Abdul Qadar al-Gailani mosque in Baghdad, warning his congregation that the American occupiers. were opening Iraq to the Jews. He condemned Iraqis who sold land to them and prohibited any association with them. In the Mother of All Battles mosque, Sheikh Thaer Ibrahim al Shomari also warned that the Jews were buying land, as they had done in Palestine prior to 1948, in order to take over the country. He asked his congregation to be careful and not sell their dear country and dear land.
A common belief in Iraq and the Arab world in general is that when held to a mirror and reversed, the Coca-Cola logo says “No Mecca, No Muhammad.” This is attributed to the alleged Jewish ownership of Coca-Cola. Many Iraqis in the summer of 2003 believed that trucks were smuggling Iraqi oil through Jordan into Israel, every night. And the rumors continued ad nauseam. The fact that the Old Testament contains references to Jewish hegemony over the lands between the Nile and the Euphrates did little to ease concerns.
Works purporting to be scholarly were available in every book market, elaborating on themes of the Jewish threat. The ubiquitous Protocols of the Elders of Zion detailing a Jewish plot to rule the world, long proven in the West to be a fabrication written at the behest of a Russian czar, was popular in an Arabic edition. Another book, called The Crimes of the Jews, was on display on Baghdad streets alongside a book about Drugs and the Sons of the Devil. These sons, of course, were the Jews. A book in Kurdish was also available, its cover bearing a Star of David within which a monster dripped blood from its fangs. The book was titled In the Jaws of the Jews.
The Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq itself sold a book called Jewish Nights, refuting various Jewish claims about their history, and in Najaf, the office of the cleric Seyid Moqtada Sadr sold a book called Ali and the Jews, detailing All’s conversion of Jews to Islam.
[59]
After the war, with the flowering of new Iraqi publications, newspaper articles helped to spread the panic that Jews were invading the country. The independent Iraqi daily Al YaW al-Aakh’er reported that “the frantic campaign to resettle the Jews [in Iraq] has aroused the annoyance of Iraqis, particularly the clerics.” Al-Adala, a newspaper published by the Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution, warned that “a number of Jews are attempting to purchase factories in Baghdad.” An eyewitness was quoted who claimed to have observed Jews making such transactions. Nearly everyone in Baghdad swore he had a friend or relative who had seen Jews buying land. Meanwhile, the newspaper Al-Sa’ah warned Iraqis to check Taiwanese- and Chinese-made appliances for concealed Stars of David because the Israelis were said to be surreptitiously selling their products in Iraq.
Another rumor going around was that Michel Aflaq, the nowhated founder of the Baath Party, was a secret Jew who had converted to Christianity. It was even rumored that in Israel, Jewish brothels were built to look like mosques, complete with the minaret. Iraqi Shiites believe that a final battle between Jews and Muslims would occur when the Jews came to the city of Ki61 on the Euphrates to visit the tomb of an alleged Jewish prophet. There Muslims and Jews would fight, and the Jews would hide behind rocks, until the rocks spoke to say “there is a Jew behind me,” allowing the Muslims to be victorious. Not a day went by that I did not hear another story about the Jews.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 15 2006 16:29 utc | 50

b real, thanks for update on anti-war demos. Last night I wished that an investigative journo would research who the hell funds them…

Posted by: jj | Jul 15 2006 18:44 utc | 51

On further thght, sched. August demonstrations sounds like some crazy “compromise” w/rich Jewish funders – ok, you can have demo…but not when it’ll do any good – make it in August when everyone’s on vacation & it’s too late to affect current Israeli warmongering…Time for others to step up to the plate.

Posted by: jj | Jul 15 2006 19:06 utc | 52

citizen k is both right & wrong
it is correct to say that international jurisprudence as an entity doesn’t exist in any substantive form. it follows the utterly corrupt jurisprudence of the united states which is now the laughing stock of any jurist worthy of that name
there are some logical coorelations that citizen k refuses to take. in the normal anti soviet hysteria riff that s/he gets into fails to make some of the more evident facts
in in fact fascism was liquidated as a force as the russians wanted in 1945 – then there would have been men & organisations & policies that would not have been allowed to exist. in france for example – if you liquidated physically the entire appareil of people like bousquet & papon & there were many of them at all levels of france society – then i think a colonial policy re -indochina & algeria would have been impossible
if in germany, there had been the liquidation of men & organisations that were soon utilised by the u s empire for their own deeds – for example, the thysens, the igfarben, the banks, shipping etc & again in both the judiciary & medecine – if you had liquidated these people physically – then maybe maybe – the extermination of european jewry would have had some form of resolution
the questions of the shoah have never been resolved
but the shoah is not an excuse for the murder of other populations. & i’d advise citizen k to read either gilles keppel or even robert fisk’s new book for a more reasoned analysis of what is happening in the middle east
& i find it laughable, darkly laughable that the israeli state has suddenly found faith in uniuted nations resolutions – something it has systematically ignored since inception
justice might exist perhaps, but not jurisprudence
perhaps an appropriate territorial resolution after the second world war would have been to annexe germany & austria & provide a new state for the jewish diaspora – but to have done this would have reminded all the nations of europe including britain & the baltics of their role in the slaughter of a people
coming from where i come from – it is both possible & necessary to be anti zionist while never supporting for an instance any form of anti semitism
(there is also a good book available in english on the vichy functionaries who were as responsible as any nazi – called ‘bad faith’ by carmen callil)

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 15 2006 19:07 utc | 53

RGiap:
I make no excuse whatsoever for Israel’s collective punishment, systematic oppression, and brutal governance. None. However, I similarly do not excuse the eliminationist religious fanaticism of Hamas, the gangster operations of Hezbollah, the use of white phosphorous by the US, or the starvation of millions of third world peasants caused by EU farm subsidies. So when I see the common formulaic denunciation of Israel that rests on the counter-factual assumption that there is a civilized norm of behavior which the Israelis are uniquely violating, my suspicions of ulterior motivation and bad faith are activated. We’ve seen here and it is obvious elsewhere that denunciations of Israeli crimes move rapidly into calls for genocide in many cases.
By analogy, if one reads Bernard Lewis’ denunciations of Islam, one does not need to be a defender of religious intolerance, clitoridectomies, or vile corrupt police states to suspect the motivations of someone who can pretend that the current political alignment of the middle east came about due only to Islamic cultural failure. Lewis writes as if massive and repeated US and European armed intervention, bribery, and economic domination were taking place in some other world entirely. The control of Iran by despicable religious extremists may be due in some ways to ideological limitations of Islam, but the CIAs open destruction of the Mossadeq regime followed by US support for King Savak’s torture state can only be ignored by someone who is either entirely ignorant or operating in bad faith. By the same logic, the creation of the state of Israel may be blamed on racist colonialist zionists, one can make that argument, but Israel did not spring up by magic or without cause and there are clear historical reasons why Israelis trust nothing beyond military force.
When I see arguments that demand the Israelis rely on UN assurances instead of force of arms, I wonder how anyone can say such a thing just a few years after Sbrenica. Obviously some airstrikes and automatic weapons would have done those refugees much more good than the pious bullshit of the UN, the EU, and the Dutch cowards. The Rwandans and people of Darfour also learn the same lesson. The Israelis believe, and would be fools to doubt, that if they could not defend themselves and Hamas was able to carry out its program on unarmed Israelis, the Europeans and UN would move rapidly and decisively to make sure blood didn’t spatter on their shoes and that future investment opportunities opened up by these unfortunate events would not be missed.
The sad fact is that there is no law of nature or history that requires that one of the parties to an armed dispute is “good” and the other is “bad”. In Iraq the current torture regime battles members of the previous torture regime and want-to-be torture regimes.
So I can also agree with you that it was wrong that the collaborationist functionaries of the French state and economic elite plus their counterparts on the other side of the Rhine and in Italy were allowed to remain at the top of the heap, but the Soviets didn’t do much to create a new social world in East Germany. The Stasi seems to have deliberately recruited Nazi cops.
Perhaps this may be ridiculous to you, but for me there is a world of difference between “Israels actions are evil and brutal” and
“Israel is a criminal state in violation of international law.” The second implies a contrast that does not exist and, for obvious reasons, should arouse some suspicion.

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 15 2006 20:13 utc | 54

citizen k
i think we agree on more than both of us would allow & i suppose too in the absence of real & substantive information – we as subjects are thrown hither & thither by events in a less bloodless way than the people who are currently suffering but to watch as we must these unfolding events is unbearable
i find it difficult to not see the current israeli state as a proxy for the u s in their long war on the middle east & then china
i am reminded also that the great mass of european jewry before the holocaust were in fact not zioniosts but bundists – socialists in any case out of necessity & their proved care for the interestss of other dispossessed
but in israel this has all been turned upside down – with israel siding with the most brutal of entitites – apartheid south africa being one obvious example
but it is true as you have pointed out that in europe the anti semitic strain has never entirely been eliminated – however i would argue that the israel has sometimes made melodramatic with a history that is sacred – that this strain has never been eliminated does cloud the question
but underneath this fact – there are some elemental truths – the palestinians have been dispossessed of their land, they have been cruelly occcupied & been treated as less than zero, as you have pointed out international jurisprudence has wiped its ass with the palestinian question, the arab states have failed them & their secular leadership whether it was plo, pflp etc were eliminated in concert by both the israelis & islamic fundamentalists, & we have failed them because we have witnessed their destruction & done little & that is not dissimilar at all to the extinction of european jewry & the wests complicity
added to this we have state, many states who not only do not possess vision but are provably stupid & criminal in their policies & strategies

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 15 2006 21:17 utc | 55

RGiap:

i find it difficult to not see the current israeli state as a proxy for the u s in their long war on the middle east & then china

Agree although I’m not sure about China where US policy is ambivalent. In fact, one of the forms of anti-semitic argument in the US is “Jewish lobby makes us do bad things” as if, without the nefarious Yids, the US government would be handing out fair-trade organic chocolate and condoms world-wide and asking everyone to have a pleasant party.

i am reminded also that the great mass of european jewry before the holocaust were in fact not zioniosts but bundists – socialists in any case out of necessity & their proved care for the interestss of other dispossessed

The last European Jews, following tradition, had an argument as they saw the tsunami rolling in. Most said “I hope it will pass”. Some said “God will save us.” Some said, “the revolution will save us”. Some said, “Going to America/Australia anywhere but here will save us” and some said “Going to a Jewish state will save us.” Events proved that wishful thinking, God, and revolution were equally worthless and most of the proponents of these three arguments were turned into soap or pushed into mass graves. So some form of runnning away was the correct answer, and we move to the next historical question. For myself, I don’t see running from a hopeless situation as wrong, and strongly advise both Israelis and Palestinian Arabs to use this form of self-preservation whenever possible. The russian anti-semitic euphemism of “rootless cosmopolitan” seems to me to be often a good idea. Australia would benefit from a million or so Palestinian strivers.

but in israel this has all been turned upside down – with israel siding with the most brutal of entitites – apartheid south africa being one obvious example

Well, Israel’s trade with Apartheid SA grew as a result of Arab boycotts and economic incentives that destroyed Israeli trade with most of the rest of Africa and other parts of the world. May I dare to mention, however, French trade with Bokassa, Duvalier, and Mobutu, or the reluctance of everyone to let the destruction of Tibet interfere with the China trade, or even the way that Saudi princes are treated with such great respect world wide? The dream of the Zionists was that the Jews would have a state like any other. And they do, unfortunately for the Palestinians.

but it is true as you have pointed out that in europe the anti semitic strain has never entirely been eliminated – however i would argue that the israel has sometimes made melodramatic with a history that is sacred – that this
strain has never been eliminated does cloud the question

Israel tries to use anti-semitism as a protection against valid criticism. Anti-semites try to use Israeli crimes as excuses for anti-semitism.

but underneath this fact – there are some elemental truths – the palestinians have been dispossessed of their land, they have been cruelly occcupied & been treated as less than zero,

Sure. They have been treated abominably, inexcusably, and with revolting levels of hypocritical double-talk. Their elites have also totally failed them: preferring romantic apocalyptic visions to boring compromise and incremental success and fearing to confront religious stupidity. Shall I again point out that over half of Israelis are in the same sense refugees from the Islamic nations. Seems intractable.
Since, as you note, Europe missed its obligations to solve the Jewish refugee problem by creating a Jewish state in Europe, I suggest that the Europeans can make it up by welcoming Arab refugees from Israeli oppression – the oppression so eloquently denounced by Chirac. Living in the Midi or Thuringia or Flanders would surely be preferrable to living in Gaza or South Lebanon. Oh, wait. Too many dirty arabs in Europe already, and only 60 years after it appeared that there had been a final solution to the dirty levantine question. Too bad.
In fact, to me the situation is very grim and only there is this delicious horrible irony that after putting 6 million middle-easterners in the ovens, the Europeans find themselves again plagued by dark-skinned levantine outsiders with peculiar religious practices and head coverings. All that work, and no advance. So frustrating. It is almost enough to make one believe in God with a sick sense of humor.

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 15 2006 22:44 utc | 56

I suggest here is another object lesson in the core need for good faith bona fides as the foundation of advancing justice anywhere. The lack of anyone with good faith bona fides means the discussion of justice itself cannot start.
I would further suggest, again, that the need for simple good faith has been intellectually scorned and undermined for decades by almost everything connected with the left, and certainly by neo cons, straussians, Opus Dei types, and those who want to retreat to the never was never will be land of the True Theocracy.
Some people are not interested in good faith because it does not measure up to ideological demands, and, worse still, if people of good faith were in charge, ideological misery goats would be disarmed.
The current mess is not inevitable. If Gore had shown up for one debate in human form, if Sharon had not gone to the Wailing Wall to stir up travel, if Nader hadn’t been a peacock to the core, if the democrats hadn’t lost control of the Senate as a result of the party’s spine-ectomy, if Gore had demanded every vote be counted, if Kerry had not had the same spine-ectomy as his peers – there are hosts on hosts of ifs that could have prevented the present mess, with the biggest for America the what if that opened the dawn of a new era: what if the washed in blood sacrifices of 9-11 that shocked Americans awake had kept them awake more than a week or two before the slow collapse to mindless heartless business as usual. Then, the world would be a much better place than it was on 9-10, and much more better than what is is today. All without any fundamental revolution. Just ordinary progress. It could have been quaint. Now the question is whether the nation will recover in time.

Posted by: razor | Jul 15 2006 23:13 utc | 57

citizen k
yes, there simply needs to be, before it is too late, a form of resolving the questions & the problems of the early 20th century
colonialism the crimes of colonialism still need to be dealt with. the not so ancient crimes of slavery needs to be practically understood. the relation with the earth & its resources needs to be understood in a way it clearly hasn’t
what is most absent tho,is absence of vision – i mean of practical political vision. it simply doesn’t exist. there are plenty of conservatives & libertarians like paul craig roberts who understand what has gone & what has gone forever, & there a plenty with the tools to offer substantive critiques of what is – but there are no visionaries, in any sense
for a long long time it seems as if all politics & especially all foreign relations is done on the wing – that it drifts between delusions of grandeur & immediate reactions to what happened last week
education for example is one of those areas where the^poverty & absence of vision is the most clear whether it is in europe, or in aamerica or in australia – it is becoming an education so impoverished that people simply do not care what is happening outside their own fields of sight
i am absolutely sure that the world does not give a flying fuck that the world is so close to going up in flames except as some form of sordid docudrama created by the little boys & girls of the bbc & that absence of knowledge which is very real accounts for at least,in part why so many societies work so fundamentally from, fear
if i can use a metaphor – we are like the people of koenisberg/kalingrad who benefited very directly from the reich & who drowning in the dulled education/legend/myth of themselves – failed to see the slaughterhous their reality was built on – when the russians finally arrived they & the absolutely primitive conditions killed 80% of its inhabitants – you can forget history but it will not forget you
& i know that we live in that dialectic – our inaction is at once our shame but it is also the cause of the ‘hells’ we will live in the beginning of this century. i am self evidently profoundly pessimmistic
from my family i learnt what hulan beings (the people of poland, ukraine & the baltics) were capable of – this learning tampered if you like withtrying to construct a politics of hope – as you know i am unashamed of the politicis i assumed & in a sense still assume – as you might say in absence of all evidence. but what evidence i practically understand is the only bulwark against the pessimism of the generation of my father & mother who gave up on the world & all its works
i would like to believe in your argument of incremental progresses but i think the last 50 years have proved the very opposite – that to paraphrase bengamin behind every increment exists an act of barbary
for razor, i cannot guarantee my good faith – after all i have been a fanatic & i am still not so far from those origings to think my arguments are untainted by what has taught me on three continents
i am reminded tonight again of king hussein of jordan in 1991 coming out of a meeting with bush sr – just before that war – & it was clear he was crying & that something like satori had crossed his mind – he spoke simply of how we can walk stupidly into catastrope
i feel we are walking stupidly into catastrophe tonight

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 16 2006 0:06 utc | 58

my personal favorite from kristol’s article:

ideological movements become more dangerous when they become governing regimes of major nations.

what a life to live, beyond all ideology.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 0:28 utc | 59

israel’s fucking awesome, because no matter what they do, they’re “liberal.”

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 0:30 utc | 60

kristol:

For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait?

fuck yeah!!!

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 0:37 utc | 61

slothrop
what drugs does kristol take – they must be more than a binary combination
he is a one man argument for the perpetual internment of the criminally insane
i personally would like to lock him in a cage & parade him thru the middle east as it was once said j v stalin wanted to parade hitler in a circus cage en route from berlin to moscow

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 16 2006 0:44 utc | 62

RGiap: Catastrophe is the natural human condition. The Rabbis said we are not commanded to heal the world, only to try. In this, at least, they were on to something since to the alternatives are evil or despair. The frustation of not seeing a path to action is real and hard to take, but perhaps it will not last. Who knows? Time to open a bottle of wine.
Razor: I agree but good will is an elusive quality.
Sloth: Why do you read that idiot? If you want to suffer pointlessly, surely there are more entertaining projects.

Posted by: citizen k | Jul 16 2006 0:47 utc | 63

o jesus, o mahdi.
and on the other hand, as citizen k implies, the most virulent stupidity among iraqis themselves–political consciousness tortured by religion and blind bigotry.
at least that’s the feeling I have after reading nir rosen’s book. I suggest if the weekend’s nightmares are insufficient for you, smoke some dust, wzatch 3 villaronga films, and crack open In the Belly of the Green Bird
hotcha!

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 0:48 utc | 64

rgiap
well, you should spend less time wanbdering through the arcades of your own mind, and learn to dwell in that disideratum “beyond all ideology.” the night in which all the cows are black.

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 0:52 utc | 65


for, kristol was the maker of of the songs he sang
and iran, of whatever self it had
became the self that was krisytol’s song
and we, as we beld him there bestriding his ugly world
knew that we were fucked, if the world wsas never but the world that he sang
and singing
made
oh blessed rage for chaos

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 0:59 utc | 66

oh. forgot the crucial lines from “idea of chaos at aei””
the ever-hooded, tragic gestured iran
was merely a place by which kristol walked to sing

Posted by: slothrop | Jul 16 2006 1:15 utc | 67

going thru those arcades & passages sloth are errors & perhaps tragedy i have made into a career
ck
i am that peculiarly austere form of ex maoist perhaps a little like comrade regis debray who stays in on saturday night & watches the vairiety programmes on french & italian tv & doesn’ touch a drop

Posted by: r’giap | Jul 16 2006 2:00 utc | 68

from the american-israeli guy living in the kibbutz in northern israel and writing on the frequent flyer thread:

Sometimes a news report can be ominous and sometimes it can be confusing.
There is one in the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz which is both.
It says that the IDF has placed Patriot batteries around Haifa.
Why is this ominous? Because Patriots are not even theoretically capable of hitting small missiles such as those being launched from Lebanon. If they are being put in, it is to protect the city from longer range rockets — like Scuds — which could be sent from Syria or Iran.
It is not thrilling to learn that these batteries are being put in place now for the first time since the first Gulf War. It obviously means that the military is concerned about a possible strike from one of these countries.
Why is it confusing? Basically because the Patriots were a failure during the Gulf War. Not only did they not succeed in shooting down any Scuds but they their debris after exploding caused damage on the ground.
This is not surprising — they were developed as anti-aircraft, not anti-missile, weapons.
That is the reason that Israel developed the Arrow anti-missile system. It has proven itself in tests but obviously it is not yet in production (or it would have been placed instead of the Patriots).
Moreover, I have to wonder why the Patriots were put around Haifa and not Tel Aviv. If either Syria or Iran were to shoot at us they would be able to reach Tel Aviv just as easily as Haifa — and it is a much richer target.

the guy in beirut sounds terrified – air raids have been going on around him continuously, electric power is out, and the israelis are dropping more leaflets urging people to leave. of course, the question is how? now that the airport has been bombed twice and the international highway has also been hit. the u.s. government seems to be pulling another katrina – it is flying folks to cyprus, but after cyprus they are on their own and they will also be billed for the evacuation flight from beirut. unfucking believable, except sadly it is all too believable.
there is another guy on that thread who wrote a post that sounded like the last he expected to write – frantic, pleading for help, with no idea of where to to and to whom he could turn.
i don’t recommend going through the whole thread, takes way too long and it has been on the msnbc website so there are yahoos from around the u.s. writing in wishing them well, but not contributing anything substantive.

Posted by: conchita | Jul 16 2006 2:21 utc | 69

The U.S. MSM news coverage is “out of proportion” also; this from Wayne Madsen Reports:
CNN and other Israeli lobby-influenced broadcasters are understating the number of civilian casualties in the repeated Israeli attacks. CNN’s Washington bureau is editorially controlled by Wolf Blitzer, a one time employee of the Jerusalem Post and American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). According to our U.S. intelligence sources, the numbers of dead are in the hundreds. In south Lebanon, Israeli planes bombed three vans carrying families after they were turned away from a UN outpost while seeking protection. A total of 23 people were killed, including nine small children. The Israeli attacks have been described by various sources in Lebanon as “sub-human,” “monstrous,” and “animalistic.” Our intelligence sources phoned us before what they believe will be the targets of the next wave of Israeli attacks against the nation’s telecommunications networks, including cell phone towers and exchanges.

Posted by: Rick Happ | Jul 16 2006 3:03 utc | 70

citizen k
you say: In this situation for Americans to be jumping up and down screaming about Isreali violations of International Law, seems a trifle peculiar. The same can be said for the Europeans
Not so, imho. For example, the US just sent US$120m worth of aviation fuel to Israel so that IDF planes can carry on screaming thro’ the skies over Lebanon and bombing genpop and infrastructure.
The UK is also continuing to sell arms to Israel. These are my tax dollars at work so I think I have a lot to say about it, the same as I have about same reprehensible use of my tax dollars by UK Royal Air Force supporting missions of US airforce bombing genpop in Iraq (eg USAF operation on Syrian border with Iraq, supported by UK RAF, June 2005).

Posted by: Dismal Science | Jul 17 2006 17:15 utc | 71