Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 27, 2006
WB: The Swiftboating of Kos

Billmon:

It’s not that Kos (or Webb, for that matter) are outspoken critics of the special relationship [with Israel]. Far from it. But it is clear that the constituencies they represent, or hope to represent, are much more skeptical about U.S. intervention in the Middle East than the Democratic old guard — which, let’s face it, is practically welded to the Israel lobby. Even worse, this is all happening at a time when the Iraq quagmire is making the costs of our imperial role in the region painfully clear.

The Swiftboating of Kos

Comments

I quote:
“Go where the real lefties hang out, and you’ll learn mighty fast that the name Kos is a dirty word in those circles — right up there with those other well-known fascist running dogs like Howard Dean and John Kerry.”
So where do the real lefties hang out? which blogs? seems to me that billmon and moonofalabama are real lefties. Anyone cares to point me in the right direction or was billmon sarcastic and I just didn’t get it?

Posted by: charmicarmicat | Jun 27 2006 5:18 utc | 1

This has to be the best summing-up of the whole stupid hissy fit by the TradMedia I’ve seen. Absolutely masterful.

Posted by: Sharoney | Jun 27 2006 5:18 utc | 2

The very length of Billmon’s post belies the “It’s idiocy. Whatever.” tone he establishes at its outset. And well it should. Billmon is quick to downplay that any of this might have its genesis at Karl Rove’s desk (or trough… never been there myself), but there is quite a bit of buzz in this particular corner of the blogosphere about internet perception management.
I’ve never even read Kos’ blog (I graduated directly from S.Z.’s World O’ Crap to the Whiskey Bar and then to here… where I’ve been pretty cozy), but if this seems like a swiftboat, it might be because it is a swiftboat. I won’t defend a blog I’ve never read (and by all accounts, I’m only missing out on the story as told by Corporate Party Lite), but I have every reason to believe that whisper campaigns don’t generate themselves. And if a tentacle of the NYT is doing some of the whispering it might not be my tinfoil to suspect that there’s something (else) rotten in the virtual state of Denmark.
If there’s swiftboating afoot, it’s disheartening to me that it is centered on a bastion of Corporate Lite instead of us here (or anyone else with any alternative politics). This means that while we will still feel the collateral damage of civil liberties lost, the PTB also still only view their spineless, snivelling, complicit political negative images as any kind of real threat to be duplicitously dealt with.

Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 27 2006 5:20 utc | 3

I’m glad kos is there for those have a “kossack” mindset. like I’ve said before, the center needs to be more in the center.
Jimmy Carter has a post there now, b/c his son is now running for office in Nevada.
that’s about as direct as democracy gets in the U.S…and I think that’s what the media hates…their role as mediators is being impinged upon by johnqblogger, who can sign up at kos and write and receive a reply from a pol (or pol spokesperson).
..and those pols might actually have to hear what ppl outside the fucking beltway say! even those waaay left of kos…cause anyone can have an acct. (yes, I know about the purges…but the accts were there previously.)
I’ve thought for a while that kos would run for office. I hope he does. I hope he wins and I hope he remembers what he learned along the way.
I like representative democracy b/c I don’t want to have to be a politician. But I DO expect representation in return for my vote.
this is the new world, journos. earn your respect or shut up.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jun 27 2006 5:43 utc | 4

So where do the real lefties hang out? which blogs? seems to me that billmon and moonofalabama are real lefties. Anyone cares to point me in the right direction or was billmon sarcastic and I just didn’t get it?
i think he was talkin about us for sure, not himself.
that’s why he doesn’t link to us anymore. i appreciated his humor since i am a howard dean fan, i don’t consider the totality of kos to be ‘coporate lite’ (although i certainly resent the silencing, i respect his right to do w/the blog whatever he wants), i do read many of the diaries, and after all, we are sort of billmon’s offshoot that ran astray. heaven’s what’s he ever going to do w/us? 😉

Posted by: annie | Jun 27 2006 6:11 utc | 5

one of the things i love about this post is not only did he go to the heart of the matter, the swiftboating aspect, but in typical billmon fashion he let his own thoughts out about the real reasons what kos represents is so threatening, the segment b. highlighted.
this post is going to be read far and wide. did i say that loud enough. heavily trafficed i am positive, and i love it because kos doesn’t go there, israel, hardly. the elephant.

Posted by: annie | Jun 27 2006 6:17 utc | 6

Heh – check Atrios, he seems to have gotten confused by “sarcasm”.
I don’t think this is a swiftboating, in that it is an actual conspiracy to defame Daily Kos. It seems to me to be more like a dogpile – Kos has been much in the news lately, from the book on, and those he critiques simply needed a slight push to decide that this was a scandal, jump on, and try to take Kos down a peg or two.
It won’t work – far more likely was the brouhaha that erupted over Kos’s famous “fuck ’em.” If terrorist sympathizer didn’t work, I don’t think blogofascist will.
And yeah, Billmon’s talking about us, Stalinist fruitcakes and all.

Posted by: Rowan | Jun 27 2006 7:03 utc | 7

Why is it that TNR and the rovians; the neo libs and cons; the media sinecures’ the whole sorry herd, are on the same side?
Something fundamental has changed. The vocabulary and analysis still hasn’t caught up with what is going on. Something new is being born.
After railing against Josh Marshall yesterday for buying into what is manufactured and silly, it is nice to again see Billmon once again close to the heart of the matter. What is the new alignment?

Posted by: razor | Jun 27 2006 8:33 utc | 8

DailyKos and Markos and them rowdy Kossacks are all about Democratic Party activism. Real projects, real politicians, real campaigns, real elections — and oh yes, the unbridled flow of intellectual and emotional and spiritual underpinnings that ignite and drive all those real doings.
Of course, “real lefties” see the entire Democratic Party as simply one half of the single party state that America is. Both political parties are owned by, and serve, the same economic masters.
Real lefties perceive that even if the Democrats win every office they desire during this political season, the victory will represent nothing more than the handing of the ball to the other team for their fair turn at it.
Real lefties perceive that the game will still be played inside the marked white lines. The entire game will still take place inside the stadium. The voters will still be spectators forced to choose between two teams only, while the team owners, the team players, the team sponsors, and the stadium owners make obscene amounts of money by providing spectacular croissants and circuses in those two terrific tastes — Dem and GOP. You pick one, or the other.
It reminds me of my mother’s favorite way of announcing dinner — “You have two choices this evening, children. You can eat this, or you can go hungry.”
With all due respect to the passionate and hard working activists at and represented by DailyKos, the fact remains that political power in America is a direct expression of economic power.
Even netroots campaigns come down to money. Every Kossack will concede that after all the essays and diaries and comments are posted and perused, the netroots difference comes down to putting some money into somebody’s campaign coffers, some money that did not come from a corporation or a wealthy patron of politics.
Economic power in America has steadily shifted since the early 1980’s toward the energy, banking, pharmaceutical and defense industries. Beginning with Reagan, the Administrations of both Democrats and the GOP have worked to keep America’s wealthy as wealthy as the Saudis and other foreign oil suppliers so that wealthy Americans could and would invest in American corporations and assets rather than just letting all of America’s companies and properties be bought up by foreign oil barons on the open and free market.
Had a few foreign cartels been allowed to dominate our economic landscape, they would naturally have dominated our political landscape, and that has been deemed unacceptable up to now.
This has meant class warfare for the rich, and upon the middle class, and this has meant skewing the tax and regulatory systems wholesale, always in the direction of corporate monopolies, privatization of public properties and utilities, deregulation, and reduced taxes on invested capital.
This has meant putting all of America’s eggs in one basket — Big, Big Business, especially the energy and defense industries. We are the world’s largest arms supplier. Our military prowess is so far beyond what our next ten nation state competitors can put out that it is ludicrous. Yet we spend on and on because it’s no longer about whatever weapon is being built, it’s about the profits created by building that weapon, in quantity, and then wasting or using it so it needs replacing. These wonder weapons don’t even have to work anymore. The game is to just go build some stuff — the Pentagon or Congress pay for it, plus ten percent for your trouble.
Consider the perfect devotion of both political parties over the decades to this Iron Triangle — the Congressional Military Industrial complex, a rigged game where a dollar in political donations gets you a ten dollar ‘earmarked’ contract to manufacture some stuff in China or the Honduras and then sell it to Halliburton for its latest war of convenience. For a two dollar donation, you get your taxes reduced, and for three dollars you can get the EPA, SEC and IRS off your case, rather permanently.
It works the same for both parties. That’s why both parties are funded by largely the same clientele. It’s just business. The business of politics.
Real lefties perceive that even when the Democratic Party hits full victory mode, no serious plans are afoot to change this basic economic arrangement. Feingold or Kucinich would probably change it, but they are in that unelectable five percent who don’t fiddle the facts.
For the Democrats to change this basic arrangement would require going straight to the American people and saying, “Thanks for your vote. It’s good to be back. Now, we all need to voluntarily reduce our living standards by about 30% in order to avoid national bankruptcy in the coming decade. We need most of our suburban population to give up their private cars and start taking buses and trains to work, or move closer to their jobs. We have unilaterally cut the Pentagon budget by 50% today, and will put those hundreds of billions into getting our national infrastructure on a green basis, our schools back on top, and our national debt under control. More than anything else, friends, we need to make science and mathematics our national pastime instead of baseball and football. Are you with us?”
(cue the crickets . . . )
Well, they’d not be in office more than a few weeks after that, would they? Ach du lieber — how the tar and feathers would fly!
For too many Americans, you can take away their SUV when you can pry it from their cold, dead fingers.
And yet our most sober and wise futurists and thinkers say that this downsized, relocalized America is precisely the nation that will emerge from the restrictions forced by Peak Oil and $150 per barrel crude that is coming.
It will happen. Right here.
We can either make the necessary changes with our eyes open, or we can wake up to these changes one distant day, after all the brutish unpleasantness of trying to avoid it gets a lot of Americans hurt and killed, both Over There and here at home.
Real lefties have left the stadium. We see grownups playing a game while reality waits. Oh, we will reliably vote D on Election Day, out of necessity. After all, Mother’s two choices were not really choices, were they?
But please do not presume we see a Democratic sweep of all three branches of government as Judgement Day and Kingdom Come all rolled into one. If such a Democratic Party sweep happens, it will represent nothing more than the first national opportunity in half a century to address the actual problems of our tottering nation instead of the imagined problems of the political gridiron, with its two teams already purchased, and everyone playing for pay.
Real lefties know that on Judgement Day, when Kingdom Comes, and a Democratic sweep is complete, and the Dems stand in serried ranks across all three branches of government — guaran’ ball bearin’ cher the Dems will blow the opportunity. They will play the game inside the stadium, and inside the lines. They will move the ball within the economic boundaries allowed for play until such time as it is the other team’s turn again.
Because that is the business of politics. Politics truly is the art of theater. It is all a performance, all of the time. The politicians are there to fiddle for their audience, and to fiddle their audience.
Why did Nero fiddle while Rome burned to the ground? Because he was crazy? No. Because he was a politician performing. Because to not fiddle would be to confess and address harsh reality — that the city outside the stadium is on fire. To confess and address reality leads beyond two, or ten, or twenty political parties. It leads you beyond the marked lines, and out beyond the stadium.
And then whose side are you on? Whose empire? And then where do you stand?
After a farewell to arms, do you stand on the side of humanity? On the side of all species including our own? On the side of the planet, as it tumbles through a vacuum headed who knows where?
After the game leaves you, what work do you do? Where do you go? What do you call that journey where you don’t know a destination, you just know you’re not staying?
If your politics introduces you only to empire, then rosin up your bow and ho’ down. Do the people proud. Do ’em but good. You will never lack for an audience or for assistants.
If your politics introduces you to humanity, congratulations — you have outperformed Nero and all the fiddlers stalking the halls of power today.
You may find yourself out here with the real lefties.
They say Nero got that fiddle from the Devil himself . . .

Posted by: Antifa | Jun 27 2006 11:25 utc | 9

Thank you, Antifa. That was incredible–and a perfect explanation of why a life-long Dem such as myself just can’t get excited about this upcoming, “most critical” election.

Posted by: mercuria | Jun 27 2006 11:38 utc | 10

I second that. Thank you, Antifa. Sadly, I don’t hold out much hope for anything remotely resembling a proactive approach to our future. It’s denial, denial, denial and a good measure of hypocrisy, and not just on the right.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 27 2006 12:46 utc | 11

As always, Billmon is brilliant.
The “swiftboating” of Kos won’t work anymore than it worked on Howard Dean. That’s because the cause is greater than the person. That’s because it’s about us and not about them. Kos and Dean showed us that we have a power we didn’t know we had. Our power has been unleashed and cannot be reigned back in.

Posted by: Susan S | Jun 27 2006 12:47 utc | 12

What is the new alignment?
real lefties and everybody else?

MR. RUSSERT: You said some Democratic senators told you privately they felt intimidated to vote for the war. Why?
SEN. FEINGOLD: They may not have used that exact word, but they certainly indicated that they felt that there was enormous political pressure. Because the White House has done a terrible job of running the fight against terrorism. A terrible job in Iraq, but they’ve done a brilliant job of intimidating Democrats. Somehow Democrats are afraid to say, “Look, not only was this a mistake, but it continues to be a mistake and it’s being run in a mistaken way.” And I cannot understand why the structure of the Democratic Party, the consultants that are here in Washington, constantly advise Democrats not to take a strong stand. This election could turn on this Iraq issue, in fact, the 2006 election, and maybe even 2008. The party that says we have a reasonable plan to bring the troops home by, by this date and to refocus on the anti-terrorism issue is the party that will win. And I believe that my political instincts tell me…
MR. RUSSERT: But Senator, you only have 13 votes for your resolution.
SEN. FEINGOLD: Yeah, that’s not the American people. The 13 votes…
MR. RUSSERT: But that’s the Democratic Party.
SEN. FEINGOLD: No, it’s not.
MR. RUSSERT: It’s less than a third of the—in the Senate.
SEN. FEINGOLD: The Democratic Party of this country is the people of this country. And I have been all over Wisconsin, all 72 counties, to 12 different states. I can tell you, the one thing I’m sure of, Tim, is the American people have had it with this intervention. They do want a timetable for bringing home the troops. And the fact that the United States Senate doesn’t get it shouldn’t surprise you.
MR. RUSSERT: So the majority of the Democratic Senate is out of touch with the American people?
SEN. FEINGOLD: Yes,
it is at this point. Those who vote against bringing the troops home don’t get it. They’re not out there enough. They’re not listening to the people. Frankly, they’re not even looking at the polls. I saw two or three polls, Tim, in the last week that showed that a majority of the American people favor a timetable. So it is to our—you know, we lost in 2000, we lost in 2002, we lost in 2004. Why don’t we try something different, like listening to the American people?

Posted by: annie | Jun 27 2006 15:44 utc | 13

Omigod, this means I’ve become “a real leftie”!

Posted by: gylangirl | Jun 27 2006 17:04 utc | 14

Susan S – Unfortunately, the swiftboating of Howard Dean DID work – it deprived him of the nomination.

Posted by: mistah charley | Jun 27 2006 17:17 utc | 15

Don Billmon sets the record straight.

Posted by: annie | Jun 27 2006 17:34 utc | 16

I think the real swiftboating is the swiftboating of America. No?
The Daily Show Deconstructs Fed’s Miami Terrorists Hype

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 27 2006 17:39 utc | 17

Thats a great sober analysis Antifa.

Posted by: anna missed | Jun 27 2006 18:09 utc | 18

mistah charley,
As chair, Howard Dean has the ability to make long-term changes that will have a more lasting and beneficial impact on the Democratic Party than if he had been elected president. In the end, the Republicans will regret their “swiftboating” of him.

Posted by: Susan S | Jun 27 2006 18:25 utc | 19

Great Analysis there, Billmon.
I am a little bit more conspiracy minded than you are, I guess.
In the event, a great piece of writing.

Posted by: Frank Rich | Jun 27 2006 18:34 utc | 20

Why is it that TNR and the rovians; the neo libs and cons; the media sinecures’ the whole sorry herd, are on the same side?
Something fundamental has changed. The vocabulary and analysis still hasn’t caught up with what is going on. Something new is being born.

Yes! there is a realignment growing and one that, I believe, is directly related to how badly the Iraq War will turn out to be for the US. The groups mentioned by Razor may not agree about Iraq, but they will all defend the US from the shit storm of criticism headed their way from the left. They’re rallying around the principle of ‘America! Right or Wrong’ even if they don’t admit or say it. The implications of the full disclosure of failure in Iraq that threatens from the Blogostan is worrying these folks. They’re doing and will continue to do everything in their power to undermine the crediblity of the Blogosphere in peoples minds. The loss of the Iraq War will create huge anger amongst the people. Someone must be blamed!

Posted by: Iron butterfly | Jun 27 2006 18:56 utc | 21

a month or so ago in a discussion about dkos and the blogosphere in general some of us mentioned how we felt something developing at dkos and the left blogostan at large. it seems the swiftboating of kos/jerome and the outing of armando a few weeks ago, which my tinfoil hat self sees as connected, is in reaction to what we felt building.
as the “liaison” between the dkos community and those here who choose not to frolic with the great unwashed i am happy to report: 1) billmon’s diary has been linked to on the front page by kos today and discussed in additional diaries overnight; 2) armando feels optimistic that he has resolved the issues surrounding his “outing” and expects to return to blogging in december. this is an key development in my eyes because armando offers keen, concise analysis and steps well into a leadership role. it is symbolic that he was not forced to retreat.
it seems the left blogostan is banding together to hold its own. the swiftboaters, accustomed to a up-down hierarchical structure, do not understand that it is not all about kos. diarist after diarist has written how they (like me) go to dkos for the diaries on the right side of the page. the swifties don’t realize they cannot take down the community by attacking the “king pin.” if anything i think they have served to rally the troops. kos posted an amusing compendium yesterday of left blogostan parodies, take downs, and responses to the tnr, times, and newsweek pieces if you want to laugh a bit. more importantly, goldberry wrote a diary that served as a welcoming guide to newsweek and other readers new to the site. the message is very clear: the left blogostan is not going to go down easily.
however, the fight for net neutrality has taken on added significance for me. the markdown of the telecom legislation is slated to happen tomorrow or wednesday and if anyone here is interested in calling senators to urge them to support the snow/dorgan amendment to preserve net neutrality please feel free to email me and i will send the list of senators on the committee, or check the left side of the front page of dkos for the last item in the midday open thread.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 27 2006 19:39 utc | 22

All I can say is that Billmon is the greatest blogo(insert your tendencies here)person I had the honour to read.
Hopefully his views will give (insert walter mitty) dreams to the uncleaned.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jun 27 2006 19:53 utc | 23

conchita- nice post. are you sure b’s reference is not about a cheese grating accident?
cloned poster… oh, nevermind…it’s too complicated to ask. but agree that billmon is rock and roll.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jun 27 2006 20:15 utc | 24

faux…….. I endorse Bill Montgomery (sp?) as the only fucking hope for humanity.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jun 27 2006 20:26 utc | 25

fauxreal, there is little more that i would like to hear but that this administration in its entirety has encountered an irreversible cheese grating accident.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 27 2006 20:26 utc | 26

what’s the cheese grating accident?

Posted by: annie | Jun 27 2006 20:51 utc | 27

cheese grating…lol wasn’t there something about detroit built muscle cars
w/cheese graters on them driven by republicans recently? It made me laugh anyhow…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 27 2006 21:53 utc | 28

Billmon is brilliant, incisive, intuitive, super-astute, concise, the perfect journalist.
That he’s not on the front page of the major US newspapers is a crime.
Oh, and will someone also please direct me to where the real lefties go?

Posted by: waldo | Jun 27 2006 22:05 utc | 29

I only know about meat and cheese grinders.
I own a Model 1898 something, probably first patented in the ’70s. A godsend on the prairie homestead, I’m sure. What do you do with a part of that big beef or hog after you butcher it?
I also own a Climax, Model 1950. While seaching the internet for spare parts recently, I saw a little ditty, about what happens when you stick the wrong member in a Climax Fiddy.
Can’t remember what it was though.
Think a grinder is more dialectically thorough than a grater, tho.
Check my story out on Broadway, if you don’t believe me.

Posted by: Sweeney Todd | Jun 27 2006 22:21 utc | 30

It probably wiser to take this whole storm in a teacup about kos’s ‘swift boating’ as a more traditional paranoia about perceived encroachment on the territory that pundits of all shapes sizes, colours and ilks considered their own.
This arm wrestle is happening right before an election which may cause severe and permanent discomfort to some power brokers.
Those power brokers share an interest in discrediting bloggers with another group who have a rather different agenda.
This co-incidence of interest has caused a situation that may seem conspiratorial but which isn’t.
This attack on one of the most visible blogs, Kos is the next step up in trying to re-establish ‘control’ over the debate following the last four years of BS on ‘the role of blogs’.
There was a link to an Alex Cockburn piece from Counterpunch on another MoA Thread. Although the link was inserted to show that a respected ‘lefty’ commentator doubted Karl Rove’s competency; the whole article which was entitled; “The Left and the Blathersphere” was pretty much dedicated to the proposition that the left blogsphere was about as smelly as dogshit and as useful as tits on a bull.
Two important points about that article; firstly it was motivated by exactly the same hubris mixed with anxiety, as the alleged swift boating of Kos, second point is that there is no way any of the Counterpunch mob would be in cahoots with The New Republic types allegedly behind the NYT and Newsweek attacks on kos. (don’t take this as some sort of attack on Cockburn please. he is an insightful commentator but like everyone else, by no means perfect.)
What is going on?
It’s both a simple and apt example of the contention that many alleged conspiracies, aren’t conspiracies at all. They are a product of the demand created by a group of diverse individuals who either by way of numbers or disproportionate power have made their desire so overwhelming that the least little circumstance that favours their point of view has sufficient momentum to ‘snowball’.
Cockburn’s piece had the stench of desperation about it. His desperation is needless. Cockburn should have more faith in his wit and intellect to carry the day. His message will still get through no matter what happens in the ‘blog war’.
Much of his criticism of blogs is accurate: “The effect on writers is horrifying. Talented people feel they have produce 400 words of commentary every day and you can see the lethal consequences on their minds and style, both of which turn rapidly to slush. They glance at the New York Times and rush to their laptops to rewrite what they just read. Hawsers to reality soon fray and they float off , drifting zeppelins of inanity.”
This in fact is where he misses the point. There is no way that any “indie blog” could ever threaten the established news-sources’ role as primary news providers.
When blogs attempt that they must either ‘sell themselves’ to a particular point of view, so that they are used by that point of view, to get out stories which lack sufficient evidence for an established media outlet to jeopardise it’s credibility–see Matt Drudge, or they have to recruit a huge mob of journos and writers to ‘take on the primary media sources at their own game –see Salon.
Neither model achieves much in the long term. The drudge report is a tool of the rethugs. It is unable to shape it’s own destiny as it is totally dependant on it’s sources in the rethug power structure. This means that it only really appeals to the ‘true believers’. As a way of floating libellous stories it ‘works’, but it is no threat to established media.
Salon et al become an adjunct to established media since it isn’t possible to fund a ‘netzine’ which has a large staff, with existing net income models.
So IMO blogs are best at taking ‘news’ from a huge range of primary sources and disseminating it to individuals likely to share the bloggers interests. Along with this secondary service a ‘good blogger’ can also provide a slant or an opinion on the item. Actually as we know the choice of news item more often than not determines the ‘angle’.
It is this ability which established media commentators resent so deeply that they are unable to make an objective judgement about much of the work of bloggers.
Why?
Well the role of opinionist or commentator is the ‘plum’ job in the media. This is the job that many devote their careers to ‘landing’.
The reasons are rather pathetic and a foul insight into human nature. Firstly it is work that means you don’t have to ‘pound the pavement’ harassing potential sources at any time of day or night. The hours are good and of course once a ‘commentator’ gets a profile their job becomes cultivating sources at dinners and events such as gallery openings, the opera etc.
Yeah I know many of them whine about it, but no matter how rubbery the chicken, it sure beats door stepping an angry or sad stranger in cold, dark, potentially dangerous situation, or ducking for cover when the boss wants some ‘bang bang’, or worst of all picking over others misery as if it were carrion desperately searching for the juicy piece. In fact those are probably the ‘good’ bits. the rest of a reporters time is often spent slogging through the rolodex trying to extract a comment, any comment on some minor kerfuffle.
Ironically this more comfortable and easier gig pays a helluva lot more. Because a commentator is encouraged to express their opinion, there are many people out there prepared to reward in all manner of ways, direct or indirect, a commentator who expresses an opinion which suits them.
The traditional way of winning a columnist gig for the bulk of media workers, those like the rest of us humans unable to entertain others day in day out by dint of their personality or talent, is to slog it out in the trenches of reporting for many years.
It is those people who are really pissed at the way some bloggers have successfully cut straight to the job of ‘notable opinion maker’.
By doing so these arrivistes have made the chances of Joe reporter’s slog to the top, that much less likely to be successful. There isn’t a heap of space up there.
So these people are deeply unhappy and resentful. So much so, that types that couldn’t ordinarily see eye to eye on any subject are united in their determination to silence the blogs. Combine that with the power brokers looking for a way to stop the momentum of change so they may protect their position and you have just the mixture required for an attack on Kos. Others will come.
A plot to create this attack is completely un-necessary.
But equally these forthcoming attacks are unlikely to meet with success.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 27 2006 22:31 utc | 31

There I was thinking the real story was the time when Helen Keller wanted to read something violent and bloody. A ‘wit handed her the cheese grater.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 27 2006 22:34 utc | 32

Billmon comments on ” the speed with which the lapdogs of the so-called liberal media are evolving (or I should say devolving) into the watchdogs of the political status quo.”
Seems to me the media are too much on message supporting the status quo to be called lapdogs. Watchdogs, maybe. I think of the sport of beagling in England, where a party of hunters follow a pack of barking beagles chasing a hare. The media are beagles, chasing prey for their masters.
The media doesn’t report on the system. It’s part of the system.
Mudduck, Queens, NYC

Posted by: mudduck | Jun 27 2006 22:39 utc | 33

This is one helluva thread.
It really makes you think.
I’ve never been inside a newspaper, thank God.
Thanks all

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 27 2006 23:13 utc | 34

Kingpin
Mr. Boorg: How many children do you have?
Roy: None that I know of. I mean, I’m unable to have children. Nasty cheese grating accident as a boy.
and…
Just because you’re familiar with the missionary position doesn’t make you a missionary.
and..
The world can really kick your ass. I only have a VAGUE recollection of when it wasn’t kickin’ mine.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jun 27 2006 23:18 utc | 35

want to chime in here a quick moment. don’t disagree with any of what anon said in 31 and even have the sad fate of having to listen to an exjourno kavetch about the internet – his fear and envy is so transparent. that said, i would still put money on the conspiracy possibility. the left blogs are the place where the country will galvinize if it ever does. they are the place that is not towing the party line and are the one substantial and growing threat to the status quo. they are also the place where the dem politicos are going to communicate with constituents. even nancy pelosi recently stated publicly that the dems strategy going forward is to go to the internet – simply because the corporate media blows them off. but more importantly, it is sites like dkos, epluribus media, tpm muckracker, etc., where you find research being done that has tradtionally been the province of the fourth estate. to cite an example, it was epluribus media who posted a diary today on dkos about who exactly is the source of resistance to reinstating the voting rights act. additionally, i don’t dare write a diary on dkos without properly researching and annotating what must be a firm argument. you won’t make it out with our dignity intact if you don’t have your shit together in that world. and on that note, i will stop rambling to pay attention to the professor who is teaching the class i am attending.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 27 2006 23:30 utc | 36

Yet again Billmon proves that the only reason to read another blog is because Billmon has disappeared again. In fact, I am tempted to think that Walcott and Billmon are one and the same, and disappear every so often to make a living.
I think it has been clear for some time that we have reached a point that the only way to take back this country is another revolution. Maybe it can be achieved as gently as with a third party, but I do not think so.
When we have as the “firebrands” of our party, Kos and Al Franken, who absolutely refused to allow any discussion of voter fraud, you have to know we are living a fraud. Kos and Al are dependant on voter activism; if the vote does not count, they do not count. It is as economically as simple as that. As Chris Rock says, we need a leader (and a leader that can not be shut down). And folks, I think it means we are going to have to sacrifice. Read some history. Are we ready for that?

Posted by: Mary Moore | Jun 27 2006 23:48 utc | 37

from kos’ perspective – this might answer a few questions.
The netroots conspiracy
by kos, Tue Jun 27, 2006 at 05:50:11 PM EDT
It all started quietly enough, with Jerome deciding to stick with the consulting biz and work for his favorite candidate in the race, Mark Warner. But the relationship was blown wide open in Vegas as Warner made a huge splash. People tried to imply all sorts of quid pro quos between me and Jerome and the Warner operation, but they were missing the real conspiracy all along.
Because under the radar, things have been moving nicely according to plan.
Bill Richardson hired great-guy Joaquin Guerra, an old friend, and made a last-minute decision to hit YearlyKos. That earned my praise.
Wes Clark hit YearlyKos too and has been an avid netroots denizen the past couple of years. I have had corresponded on and off with Wes Jr. over the past few years, and greatly respect the whole Clark family. Cue the praise.
John Edwards rolled out a community scoop site built by Rusty (an old friend, business partner of mine and Jerome who literally built Scoop) and does podcastings that MoveOn’s Zack Exley, another friend, loves. Not to mention, Elizabeth Edwards is rumored to be a heavy participant on this site under a pseudonym. And one of my best friends inside the union movement is a HUGE Edwards backer. Praise.
Hillary Clinton hired two friends of mine, bloggers Jesse Berney (formerly of the DNC blog) and Peter Daou (formerly of the Kerry campaign and the Daou Report on Salon). Praise?
Evan Bayh has Chris Smith who I met during the book tour and seemed like a really cool guy. And his operation is aggressively blogging and wooing bloggers.
And suddenly, foot soldiers in the people-powered movement have infiltrated most of the top campaigns, exposing our real goal to all.
It’s not to try and win my “endorsement”. As I’ve said before, you are all thinking people and can make up your own minds on who to vote for. You don’t need me to tell you. And you wouldn’t let me (which is what’s so cool about this joint).
The reality is that we have conspired to have people help power the process to pick the next president.
Imagine that.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 28 2006 0:21 utc | 38

;Although the link was inserted to show that a respected ‘lefty’ commentator doubted Karl Rove’s competency
man, just for the sake of minimal coherency, can’t the moa “arrows” choose a pseudonym? I can’t be the only one here assigning responsibility of often similarly styled postings to the wrong arrow. confusing for no reason I can tell.
but anyway, that was a great post.

Posted by: slothrop | Jun 28 2006 0:26 utc | 39

here! here!

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 28 2006 0:30 utc | 40

sorry, sloth, couldn’t resist. i do agree with you. next time, i promise a pseudonym.

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 28 2006 0:33 utc | 41

the “subject” is a plague, and I’m aware as much as anyone the bourgeois disaster of individuality, etc. but often I want to search moa for info and searchiing by name is often the best why to find what I want. vbut, can’t search arrows.

Posted by: slothrop | Jun 28 2006 0:37 utc | 42

It is like Sunday when I learned Warren Buffett was donating 85% of his fortune to foundations controlled by Bill Gates. And I thought, what a guy, he has always been for good things, he has always espoused for what we think as “liberal causes” just like Bill Gates Dad. Writing letters to Newspapers & Newsmagazines etc.. saying “we don’t need tax cuts, our secretaries do”. You know, thank you, “Best of the Blogs” that so simply points out that Buffett’s entire contribution of 85% of his fortune equates to a year in Iraq (and we have been there for three and don’t even mention Afganistan). We are the biggest fools EVER!!!
When are we going to WAKE UP! We need a LEADER!!

Posted by: Mary Moore | Jun 28 2006 1:13 utc | 43

Well the role of opinionist or commentator is the ‘plum’ job in the media. This is the job that many devote their careers to ‘landing’.
still, once they are reach the pinnacle they still have to serve the master. it sickens me the way krugman was neutered. there lies the jealousy, one person w/one popular blog can gain an audience the envy of any editorialist.
the difference between the right and left blogs, beside the content(!) is the right ones are following the same talking heads as the msm. they don’t dare step out of line, where would they go. they have less to criticize in the msm because it’s their agenda also. the left blogs have much richer material to work with. can you imagine being in the position of defending the status quo right now.
no wonder they are pulling thier hair out and trying to attack us, who, what else can they attack? they are drinking out of the same trough. all thats left is fake news. carrying water for the masters.

Posted by: annie | Jun 28 2006 3:21 utc | 44

The traditional way of winning a columnist gig for the bulk of media workers, those like the rest of us humans unable to entertain others day in day out by dint of their personality or talent, is to slog it out in the trenches of reporting for many years.
It is those people who are really pissed at the way some bloggers have successfully cut straight to the job of ‘notable opinion maker’.
By doing so these arrivistes have made the chances of Joe reporter’s slog to the top, that much less likely to be successful. There isn’t a heap of space up there.
So these people are deeply unhappy and resentful….
Posted by: | Jun 27, 2006 6:31:40 PM | 31
——————–
And that, my dear anonymous, has been confirmed by Maureen Dowd herself, who supposedly admitted to Markos at YearlyKos that she fely defensive ‘Because Ana Marie Cox got into TIME after two years of blogging, and it took me 15 years to get this job.’

Posted by: Sharoney | Jun 28 2006 3:45 utc | 45

Billmon forgot to mention that the MOST IMPORTANT FUNCTION of dailysoros/kos is to keep diverting the fresh water down the sewer. That is he is paid by Soros to be goddamn sure that the grassroots of the party doesn’t even think about doing precisely what it should be doing – that is mobilizing to curtail the Power of the Pirates to take over & destroy the country. People Power my ass…
Took me awhile to figure out the whole Wes Clark deal that kos mentions. Last wkend I finally realized the painfully obvious. Soros bankrolled his Presidential bid as a payback for Clark Leading/playing prominent role in destruction of Yugoslavia so Soros could steal the big Silver Mine for a song, and god knows what else he stole. (Soros bankrolled Clark & Dean.)
Does Anyone around here understand the split between the DLC & Soros? Is it just warring male egos or are there policy differences?

Posted by: jj | Jun 28 2006 3:48 utc | 46

Yeah JJ,there’s a difference, a big one.
DLC is a bunch of lazy parasitic assholes,
feeding off the corpse of America.
George Soros isn’t much like that, as far
as I can tell.

Posted by: H. L. Mencken | Jun 28 2006 4:02 utc | 47

People like to yak about left blogs, but when asked to identify them they fall strangely silent.
I heard an interesting radio interview at the end of the week just before the YearlySoros Fest. in Las Vegas. It was w/one of the Most Powerful guys in the Ca. Dem. Party, Joe Cotchett, a Big Time Lawyer who has been warning for yrs. about the theft of our pension funds, but who shortly after the ’04 election said he’d support McCain running on donkey ticket in ’08 so they could win! In short, he’s no populist, or cookie cutter anything.
At the end he was asked where he sees the hope for the future. Despite kos’ self-aggrandizement, he didn’t mention one word about these oh-so-cool tablogs, or what this self-infatuated kid thinks he’s building. He said that in North Dakota, farmers are fighting the seed companies. “They’re putting up serious resistance to the Corporate Takeover.” Coming from someone as powerful as Cotchett, nothing could more clearly show kos’ delusions… Asshole, it’s all about resisting Corporate Power…That is the Only Thing That Matters. His fixation on the DLC on behalf of Soros rather than as a part of building a popular movement to resist corporate power leaves me speechless w/fury & despair. Too bad kos is too far right to team up w/Cotchett instead of a True Predator like Soros.

Posted by: jj | Jun 28 2006 4:03 utc | 48

Mencken, you’re Totally Clueless.

Posted by: jj | Jun 28 2006 4:04 utc | 49

Wes Clark either, I might add.

Posted by: H. L. Mencken | Jun 28 2006 4:05 utc | 50

First time I’ve ever been called that.
Highly amusing.

Posted by: H.L. Mencken | Jun 28 2006 4:08 utc | 51

Thanks for some clear thinking, jj.
Seems many here are eager to drink the Kool-Aid, as long as it’s colored blue. I think Americans are raised to be gullible; it generally takes about four election cycles of varied levels of engagement to work itself out. Unfortunately, that’s a very long time, and by then the next gullible geneneration, suckled on the tit of American exceptionalism, has come of age. I’m not so sure we have that much time.
Anyhoho, since Kos has been blogging, we’ve had two constitutional amendments revoked, lost about 1/3 of our middle class, started two wars, given billions away to the ultra-wealthy, etc., etc, etc. With a record like that, he could run for President himself. Exactly what positive achievements can he point to? Perhaps if his doe-eyed followers sent out 1000 more spam e-mails — protesting something they are too lazy to break away from their laptops to actually do anything about — to their congressman, maybe that would do something. But hurry, because my “Netroots” are turning grey.
Anyhoho, with the Kossites meticulous research (yadda, yadda), you’d think someone would have realized by now that HoHo Dean is the guy who gave away his state’s public utilities to the corporations for a song, creating a “mini-California” crisis in the process. He never needed the net-roots money in the first place — the power corporations would have been happy to fund him. But by taking money from the poor and earnest off the web so innocently he was carefully “greenwashing” his hands of his past exploits.
So say it again… Kos! What is he good for? Absolutely nothing! (Apologies to Edwin Starr.) Actually, he has done pretty well for himself. And he’s sold almost as many laptops as Dell. And channelled a lot of rightgeous anger into trivial pursuits.
Cockburn isn’t jealous, he’s wise: a third generation journalist who could probably recite Waugh’s “Scoop” by heart. He knows that activism is about getting people angry and into the streets, blogging is about chaining them to their desktops, where they are no threat to anyone. Sure, they can talk to people 3000 miles away in a second, but they are now even less likely to talk to their dumb “icky” neighbors than before — and that’s where real movements start.
When you have almost half the country so zombied out between their fundamentalist, millenarian, dispensational, drive-through “Church on a Hill” and “Desperate Housewives” that they are clueless about whether or not Saddam was “behind” 9-11, it doesn’t matter if one half of one percent of the country reads Kos. That’s what you call “the system letting off some steam.” It’s already calculated into the propaganda system. It’s the price the real leaders pay for forcefeeding us Fox and War and Fear 24/7 and getting away with calling it a Representational Democracy. (Representtational means that it is not a real Democracy, it is a “representation” of one, a mere simulation, or simulacron, if you prefer. It’s as far a cry from a Participatory Democracy as Chiffon is from butter.)
The second part of a real Democracy is knowledge. Even an ur-Republican like Chalmers Johnson understands that it is not about Iraq, it is about the whole entire world and it has been going on since at least WWII, if not earlier. Where will you learn about that on Kos? Where will you learn the truth about the American war crimes of Yugoslavia and Rwanda? Where will you hear about US support for the 4 MILLION murders in the past six years in the Congo? You won’t. What you will get from Kos is Democratic heartthrob George Clooney arguing for “humanitarian intervention” in Sudan. Him and Wes (Butcher of Serbia) Clark, it’s the same difference. They’re both “nice peaople,” only Clark knows the truth behind our actions, Clooney is a dupe. But that’s what the Kos-abetted Democrats have to sell: “Humanitarian Interventions.” Clinton pulled off two of them, and no one had a clue. Bombed the living daylights out of the entire Serbian civil infrastructure, in a humanitarian way, of course. Perhaps the Chinese should bomb what’s left of our infrastructure, but in a “humanitarian” way — how would we feel?
Anyway, what can you really expect from a guy whose response to the US-backed death squads in his own country (El Salvador) was to join the army himself? Either he is not the hottest chileseed in the pod, or he knows exactly which side his chalupa is grilled on.
Look, they could elect Mahatma Gandhi President and within 24 hours he would either be dead, or they would attach some CIA mind-control gadget to his lingam which would cause him to shill for the military-industrio-congressional complex 24/7.
It doesn’t matter who you elect. Until the ruling class are frightened that they might lose control of the whole enchilada in one violent swoop, you won’t get a “Roosevelt to save Capitalism from itself.” And I don’t exactly see the Kospods taking to the streets with guns. The revolution will not be blogged.

Posted by: An “onie” mouse | Jun 28 2006 6:51 utc | 52

P.S. Wanna be a real economic subversive like the farmers in Fargo?
Stop drinking bottled water, right now.
Stop giving the corporations $100/yr. to pollute our countryside with plastic bottles. Demand water fountains in public spaces like when we were kids.
Hit ’em in their pockets. If you miss by a few inches, it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.

Posted by: An “onie” mouse | Jun 28 2006 6:56 utc | 53

onie onie onie please talk to me everyday
Either he is not the hottest chileseed in the pod, or he knows exactly which side his chalupa is grilled on.
oh lord , if i come back, i want this creativity, can you swing it? along w/aretha’s voice, do i have to make a choice?
anyhohoho.. In Vino Veritas

Posted by: annie | Jun 28 2006 7:10 utc | 54

@onie may be correct about Cockburn knowing Scoop off by heart (after all the Cockburns and the Waughs are related) and much as I respect his journalistic prowess, he is rather caught up in the ‘scene’ of journalism although neither he nor his brother have been as successful as dad Claude, old Alex is wont to wallow in the shallow bitchiness of english journalism.
That is why I believe that his motives in ripping into all blogs rather than confining his remarks to some of the most facile or self indulgent ‘left blogs’ is motivated by hubris and anxiety.
I mean even the term ‘left blogs’ shows a very oudated mindset. This way onwards can only be achieved if the people who live on this planet and who aren’t foreleg deep in the trough, discard the ancient and increasingly artificial soubriquets inflicted on us by our oppressors.
But take a look at Cockburn’s piece to confirm this opinion:
“Welcome to blog world. They’re loonies, beyond any sanction or reproof by reality. These people are going to stop a war, change the direction of our politics? They make Barbra Streisand sound like Che Guevara.
Now does that sound like an exhortation to get out in the streets and organise or does it sound rather more like the blanket condemnation of a movement the writer can’t quite comprehend but does resent?

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 28 2006 13:35 utc | 55

@Anon:
Sounds like an asshole to me.

Posted by: Hissy Hitchens | Jun 28 2006 14:16 utc | 56

welcome back, prophet 😉

Posted by: b real | Jun 28 2006 14:34 utc | 57

it isn’t enough that the right wing attacks, “onie” jumps in as well? reading “onie”‘s 2:51 post gives me the impression that s/he has not visited dailykos.com very often nor looked beyond the left side of the front page. certainly there are folks there, like many here, who spend more time in front of a computer than actively making a difference. however, if s/he read even somewhat regularly s/he would know that springing from the denizens of dkos are community activists who are running for office or working on others campaigns from the local to state level. it seems at least once a week someone writes a diary about filing papers to run or saying they are stepping away from the internet to work on someone’s campaign. others, like the netroots, organize campaigns to influence legislation, and another faction comes together to make phone calls to expose the rush limbaugh’s and bill o’leilly’s out there to their audiences. these are people who care, want to make a difference, and are making efforts to wake up the american populace. granted it may not be in a way that “onie” approves but they are doing it and then inspiring others to get involved by writing about what they have accomplished. while the majority have more centrist opinions than onie and most here, including me, to characterize them as willfully ignorant and indolent is incorrect. and to say that they do not interact with their neighbors and communities because they are too busy blogging is just a tired old accusation countered most recently by yearlykos. if anything the solidarity built by relinquishing anonymity and coming together face to face seems to have inspired more confidence that kossacks can make a difference. i read more and more diaries about how people are lobbying their representatives and participating in netroots projects. no, i do not see many diaries addressing the wrongs of the american empire – although they are there – but realistically speaking i don’t expect to. the site has its weaknesses, yes, i acknowledge, but to condemn it completely, to me is a grand error. while i don’t imagine most kossacks harbor kalashnikovs in their closets, they are and will be in the streets. however, as we have all witnessed, taking to the streets in this country has had little effect – being online, on the phone, in representatives’ offices, and in the eye of the press as in ykos, has brought on the attack from the right – a rite of passage of a sort. to blame kos for “two constitutional amendments revoked, lost about 1/3 of our middle class, started two wars, given billions away to the ultra-wealthy, etc., etc, etc.” is absurd. to blame it on the dems in office for allowing it is not. to question why kos and many kossacks still believe in the democratic party is valid. however, just as many at dkos recognize that and raise the issue regularly. what they also recognize is that the site is a jumping off place to organize further and that is where i think “onie” misses the boat.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 28 2006 14:47 utc | 58

Christ, but you people are confusing here.
We talking habaneros or Dead Rabbits or what?

Posted by: Oney Madden | Jun 28 2006 15:26 utc | 59

truth is “onie” i am hardly a proponent of our two/one-party system and i am equally disgusted by the dems, but i can’t see the sense in tearing down a community like dkos where people are engaging within and beyond the community. someone sent the following to me yesterday. seems appropriate at this moment:
“The latent causes of faction are thus sown in the nature of man; and we see them everywhere brought into different degrees of activity, according to the different circumstances of civil society. A zeal for different opinions concerning religion, concerning government, and many other points, as well of speculation as of practice; an attachment to different leaders ambitiously contending for pre-eminence and power; or to persons of other descriptions whose fortunes have been interesting to the human passions, have, in turn, divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good. So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.”
from the Federalist Papers #10 by Publius, aka James Madison I believe.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 28 2006 16:22 utc | 60

real Democracy is knowledge
it generally takes about four election cycles of varied levels of engagement to work itself out
I’m not so sure we have that much time.

if you get enough people aware of the truth you can change perception. the greatest gift of the blogs is to be out in front of the news, driving it, forcing the msm to respond, following. at present the push back and engagement between the blogs and msm is revolt . the msm is revolting against giving up the throne of messagemaker. the reason blogs are capturing the audience is the access to the truth. or, the illusion of truth, perhaps more honesty than we accustomed to but seriously we all know on kos we have to remain in the framework of his reality. we cannot explore any avenue to the truth. that is made perfectly clear. onie says it takes 4 election cycles, it may very well. kos is providing an incredible service, has started a ball rolling. what are the chances he can control where that message goes? on his site maybe, but as truth keeps marching will the narrative hinder the framework? what if? what if, by remaining in the ‘kosmind’ we hinder ourselves from seeing the real truth? what if shutting down all exploration of the greatest evidence thus far of the greatest evil of our enemies allows our enemies to keep us in their servitude? look at the places we can’t go. 9/11, ohio fraud, israel to name a few. look at the worst in our nemisis, 9/11, ohio fraud, israel, do i sense a pattern?
real Democracy is knowledge
let’s not throw the baby out w/the bathwater. is the baby the democratic party, or is the baby knowledge?
i don’t for one minute think kos is the Don of blogs. he does set precedence for ‘acceptable’ narrative.
divided mankind into parties, inflamed them with mutual animosity, and rendered them much more disposed to vex and oppress each other than to co-operate for their common good.
“extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.”
in real life? or on kos?
“‘Conspiracy Theories’ are subject to ridicule and derision from the community at the very least. Repeat offenders can and will be banned.”
“I banned these people, and those that have been recommending diaries like it. And I will continue to do so until the purge is complete, and make no mistake — this is a purge.”
in order for me to be accepted by the community i must curb who i am and what i express while i am there. as long i as remain w/in kos’s concept of reality i will not be divided from the group,have animosity directed toward me, ridiculed, or purged.
sometimes changes occur by common everyday logical sequences but some radical events that alter the globe and mankind are in fact extraordinary. chances are we experience them and are effected by them w/or w/out extraordinary evidence. scientists discover extraordinary things without extraordinary evidence, often times w/hunches, feelings , dreams. many of us operate daily by following our instinces, questioning things that cannot initially be proven. all the greatest explorers entered territory of the unknown. these are the leaders i want to follow. while i truly appreciate the structure of dailykos i do not subscibe to the narrative and resent the purge of possibly some of the most creative minds.

Posted by: annie | Jun 28 2006 16:56 utc | 61

annie, i don’t think kos is the be all and end all, but i will say that i have seen growth there. 9/11 diaries still do not fly, but there are regular diaries there now about the election and many about israel. the battles over how the israeli government is treating the palestinians are enormous. the meta discussions about the site are continual – and sometimes overdone – as it evolves. bottomline, i believe there are myths being perpetuated about the site by those who do not participate. what did kos say in his post – It’s not to try and win my “endorsement”. As I’ve said before, you are all thinking people and can make up your own minds on who to vote for. You don’t need me to tell you. And you wouldn’t let me (which is what’s so cool about this joint). my gawd, you would not believe how many diaries have been posted with the diarists stating how divergent their ideas are from his. that is in many ways is the beauty of the site – with the exception of the 911 ban – there is room for just about every opinion. one just has to be prepared to argue and possibly be shot down. my personal thoughts about the 911 ban is that given the amount of email i receive on the subject, it could easily overwhelm any site and the folks doing that work have gotten the word out regardless. the election thing is another story and i stopped reading there for awhile until i had to face up to the fact that shit was happening there – people weren’t just sitting behind their keyboards. this is why i took exception to “onie’s” post. like kos, i give every person in the community enough credit to believe the s/he will make their own informed decisions. there is a constant dialogue about how to remain open to new ideas and creativity and there are battles. and no, i don’t believe we are seeing anything through a kos filter anymore than here we see through a bernhard filter although he probably gets rid of the trolls for us whereas there it is a community responsibility. but trolls aside, it is obviously your choice where to read and if the 911 ban is that critical to you then i guess you will disregard the remaining benefits of the site. i was able to get passed that and feel that i manage to stay as on top of it as i want to be via other sources. i don’t look to dkos to answer all of my questions or get all of my information. if i did, i wouldn’t be here, no? 😉 however, i do see it as a valid and valuable jumping off point.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 28 2006 17:21 utc | 62

just for kicks, here is the recommended diary lineup at dkos right now:
BREAKING: MSM acknowledges e-voting vulnerability
by Wintermute
WSJ: Report Proves Exec Payouts Causing America’s Pension Crisis
by davidsirota
The GOP on Crack Over NYT Treason
by SusanHu
Jack Carter is going to Win
by Sarah R Carter
A corporate scandal that dwarfs Enron
by gjohnsit
6/27/06 – A Day That Will Go Down In Infamy
by davidsirota
230 comments (76 new)
‘Fahrenheit 9/11’ Marine killed in Iraq
by QuickSilver
Bush Proves Trickle Down Doesn’t Work As Advertised
by bonddad
okay so we’ve got people writing about the economy, iraq, our despicable and wanton congressional debate on flag burning flying in face of people dying all over the world, the impending fannie mae debacle that could take down the us economy and others with it, a daughter’s campaigning efforts to get her dad elected, the gop attack on freedom of the press (great to see susanhu back!), david sirota’s thoughts about a wsj article about ceo exec compensation, and at the top of the list election fraud. sadly, there isn’t anything about ward churchhill or about the israeli incursion into gaza but i did see diaries about both issues on the recent diary list this morning. the community did not vote them into the recommended list (yet). so what am i trying to say – that the discussions there are not simply about dems and they are not necessarily centrist and they cover important issues. and i am down off the soapbox for the rest of the day.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 28 2006 17:37 utc | 63

blogging is about chaining them to their desktops, where they are no threat to anyone. Sure, they can talk to people 3000 miles away in a second, but they are now even less likely to talk to their dumb “icky” neighbors than before — and that’s where real movements start.
Hmm, interesting thought. Of course blogging or reading/commenting on blogs gives you a new social surrounding that takes you out of your usual one. You may need less contact with your neighbour when you are an accepted blogger/commentator.
But there are also gains that help in the “real” social surrounding. Through blogging/reading/commenting I am much more aware of what happens in the world. The picture is bigger, the relations are more clear. I gain knowledge and learn to communicate my thoughts about these.
I catch myself of being much more opinionated but also more thoughtful in discussions with “real” people including my dumb icky neighbor than two years ago.

Posted by: b | Jun 28 2006 18:02 utc | 64

it is obviously your choice where to read and if the 911 ban is that critical to you then i guess you will disregard the remaining benefits of the site.
conchita, i do not disregard the benefits of the site,not in the least. i simply gravitate towards exploring more turbulent waters, one’s that don’t necessarily come w/extraordinary evidence. i cherry picked the portions of onies post that reverberated for me and tried explained why. i did not comment on portions i disagreed with, which should not be assumed approval. i perfectly understand your defense of kos and the site. i consult the site daily myself.
it is not only the 9/11 ban it is the lord of the flies monitoring. sure if you tiptoe around israel there are acceptable ways to go there, palestine being one but the larger issue, to call out the melding billmon refers to and try to nail it, this has to be done w/great care. by the time any real progress is made w/elections (my personal issue numero ono, right up there w/nuclear options) 06 will be over.
this is not to degrade the benefits of kos. kos makes it very clear the site is for the progress of the democratic party. that is not my pet issue or my idea of the ultimate solution. its a great place to get the news and hear voices otherwise not available. i prefer moon, that’s obvious. i prefer to go down the road less traveled to examine reality. i prefer to not assume the ‘obvious’ because i cannot prove the less, i choose to believe the answers could very well lie in what is hidden. i wonder what diaries aren’t written that are discouraged because they engage in ‘speculation’.
i do see it as a valid and valuable jumping off point.
me too.

Posted by: annie | Jun 28 2006 18:29 utc | 65

hmm, just came back from running errands and found this in the stack of current “recent diaries.” ankoss says it better than i:
The evolutionary superiority of progressive blogs
by ANKOSS
Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 02:11:20 PM EDT
It is not an accident that the Daily KOS blog has achieved rapid and sustained growth that has eclipsed that of the leading right-wing blogs. This disparity reveals an important asymmetry between progressive and “conservative” politics in the Internet era. It is tempting to believe that the success of KOS is simply attributable to the good leadership of Markos, but that is like attributing the emergence of the electric light to a man named Edison. The materials and technological enablers for electric illumination were available in Edison’s time, and another inventor would eventually have achieved the breakthrough. The KOS phenomenon is really all about a structurally superior blog environment that is grounded in the constructive engagement of progressives.
Conservative media outlets don’t encourage the formation of new ideas, because they are top-down propaganda organs that aim for energizing and mobilizing partisans to support plans crafted by their leaders. Rush and the dittoheads are the model for how conservative media operates. This is why the criticism of KOS by David Brooks was so profoundly stupid. It is obvious that Mr. Brooks can’t discern the difference between the right and left sectors of the political blogosphere. Let’s look at the structural advantages of progressive blogs in greater detail.
1. Progressive blogs have richer and more powerful features. Markos chose the Scoop software to enable contributors to DailyKOS to make substantial contributions to the discourse, instead of just posting “what he said!” messages.
2. Progressive blogs are more tolerant of multiple perspectives and dissent than conservative blogs. Despite the troll-hunting that goes on at KOS, it is clear that a broad range of controversy is acceptable. Right-wing bloggers crush dissent, because they are psychologically committed to Bossism and authoritarian organization.
3. Progressive blogs are seeking new answers to emerging problems. Thus they are innovative and fruitful in their spinoffs. They are spawning grounds for the next generation of online political activism. Conservative blogs are focussed on retarding change. Their proprietors want to slow down, then reverse many of the changes that have already taken place in American society. Thus, they have little incentive to make structural innovations, other than to improve their propaganda reach.
4. The reason KOS is being attacked is that the conservatives have correctly assessed that the evolutionary gap does not favor them. Extrapolation of the evolutionary characteristics of the liberal blogosphere shows that it will come to dominate interactive Internet politics. All the conservatives can do is crank up the volume of their old-world broadcast propaganda organs to try to discredit powerful emerging progressive blog structures like KOS. It won’t work.

b also helped explain why i am nicer to my neighbors who try to engage me in conversation about the latest sitcom.
and now i really am gone for the day.

Posted by: conchita | Jun 28 2006 18:35 utc | 66

The evolutionary superiority of progressive blogs

The reason KOS is being attacked is that the conservatives have correctly assessed that the evolutionary gap does not favor them
good grief!

Posted by: b real | Jun 28 2006 19:02 utc | 67

“Hit ’em in their pockets. If you miss by a few inches, it wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.”
Good idea. That way we don’t have to hit the streets and face the guns with our “icky neighbors”. We can organize and execute our economic revolt right here at home.

Posted by: pb | Jun 28 2006 20:07 utc | 68

I have often wondered if dkos wasn’t a tracking/profile device for the ptb, one in which one voluntarily signs themselves up to put on a list for future detainment. Wouldn’t surpize me, as the ptb have us paying for our own enslavement as part of their modus vivendi and or technique. I am most probably wrong, but the thought does run through my gord every now and again.
Yes, I have smoked my prozac today, fyi…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 28 2006 20:29 utc | 69

I wish I knew how to get my acct deleted over at Kos.

Posted by: Obs | Jun 29 2006 18:09 utc | 70