Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 3, 2006
WB: Losing Ugly

Billmon:

[I]t still makes me nervous, because I’m not nearly as sure as Steele that we’ve put our historical xenophobia — and our ability to rationalize the deaths of brown people who happen to get in our way — behind us. In fact I’m pretty sure we haven’t. Combine that with our modern taste for videogame violence, the more depersonalized the better, and our national refusal to admit that we could ever, ever be the bad guys, and our need for the oil, and its not too hard to imagine the war in the Middle East getting very ugly indeed, in ways that might give Mr. Kurtz a run for his money.

Losing Ugly

Comments

That puts Shelby Steele as king of the “trench coat mafia” mentality.

Posted by: anna missed | May 3 2006 8:46 utc | 1

what makes Steele’s comments even more bizarre is that he is a black man, schooled in Utah, and a fellow at the Hoover institute.
I saw a comment at another place that said this was prep work for nuking Iran. who knows? what options are left? we should pick up our toys and go home. sounds good to me, I wonder if it will catch on…

Posted by: dan of steele | May 3 2006 8:58 utc | 2

You should be nervous. What if “others” were to say “Americans? Kill ’em all and let God sort them out.”

Posted by: DM | May 3 2006 12:40 utc | 3

as the saying went in Vietnam: “Kill ’em all and let God sort them out.”
That one is much older. In 1209 Arnold-Aimery, a crusader in the Albigensian Crusade, told his soldiers how to handle Christian heretics in Bèziers: “Kill them all. God will know his own.”
Fitting to use it in the current crusade too.

Posted by: b | May 3 2006 13:09 utc | 4

I’ve always assumed that the right would eventually come to this conclusion about Iraq. This war was an experiment in mixing hard and soft imperial power – and it failed. When you “train” a dog alternatively with savage beatings and little cookies – erratically – you’ll end up with a really crazy pooch. Not that Iraqis are dogs, but we certainly treated them like they were…
Thing is, Nazi-style genocide is somewhere between hard and impossible without collaborators. They could probably kill off the Sunnis in this fashion, but that would STILL create a state unfriendly to the US – not to mention pissing off the majority-Sunni Arab world.

Posted by: 3 Stacked Midgets | May 3 2006 13:57 utc | 5

david neiwert examine’s the racism in shelby’s editorial
The end of the end of racism

At Thursday night’s hearing where Simcox spoke, the Minutemen were treated to a long series of harangues against them, including some that entered the realm of inaccurate hyperbole.
But the real prize came from Simcox:
“Also, I take great pride in being part of the Civil Rights Movement — Martin Luther King. And of course I admire the original border Minuteman, Cesar Chavez, who warned us about illegal immigration 25 years ago and actually marched to the border to protest illegal immigration and predicted the problems we have today.”
It’s factually true, but distorted; Chavez would never have condoned an operation so clearly aimed at demonizing Latinos as the Minutemen. Nonetheless, some of the Minutemen’s supporters sounded similar notes. One in particular chastised the crowd for exhibiting its “prejudice” against the Minutemen, and wondered aloud, at numerous points, “What would Martin Luther King say?”
Human Rights commissioner Ellis Casson, a Seattle pastor who actually knew King, piped up at the end in response.
“I knew Dr. King,” he said. “I know what he would say:
“‘Here we go again.'”
Yes indeedy.

Posted by: annie | May 3 2006 14:19 utc | 6

maybe shrub should offer steele the opportunity to write his nero decree when the occupiers are really forced to leave the middle east

Posted by: b real | May 3 2006 15:50 utc | 7

Or perhaps Bush, like Caligula, his near Roman cousin would lament, “Oh, that Iraq would only have one neck!”

Posted by: Diogenes | May 3 2006 16:07 utc | 8

@3 Stacked Midgets
yeah, they call that, fucked if you do fucked if you don’t,
where I come from. However, the ‘decider’ decided. He decided his fate. To the Hague with the whole lot of em!

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 3 2006 16:16 utc | 9

It got me wondering: would a non-racist America have been mentally capable of defeating Japan in World War II?

Posted by: George Carty | May 3 2006 16:26 utc | 10

good post from Billmon…
Why describe the dominant group – the one with boats, arms, machines and today nukes – in terms of color?
(Not that they are that dominant these days…heh….)
Why stress ethnicity when endless theoreticians have discussed societal organisation, technology, and so on?
White guilt, in mainstream discourse, both conservative and as actually exhibited if in a minor key by progressives like US Democrats does nothing but provide a sort of excuse for ‘loosing’ (see S. Steele), that is, provides false excuses for a hands off policy to emphasise it must be more vigorous.
Take it from me, nobody in the PTB ever speaks in terms of ethnicity except when they are discussing how to get Joe Public on board, or to close his eyes.
It is a fact that in the last 20 years wars, as in one nation attacking another, have been more muted, more subtle, and having a less striking, immediate death toll. Peole suffer because of displacement (soon, some alarming proportion of people in the world will be refugees), economic and infrastructure destruction, long term effects of ammo (DU for example), disease, etc. and generally being screwed over every-which way. Some call it the new colonialism, and that is pretty apt. Others say, we are loosing the war.
The model (ex-Yugo, Haiti, Afgh, Iraq, to mention just those; Russai in a different way) integrates elements of old-style colonialism (total control, brute force, bases, superior arms, puppet Gvmts, etc.), tinges of reformatory zeal, as the old Xtian missionaries manifested (re-construction, health, free market, economic development, all very noble), fitted together with economic control or rather hold-ups (Russian banks, Iraqi oil, Halliburton profits) all the outcome of the use or threat of superior fire power (e.g. Shock and Awe..)
It is a sort of hybrid, composite model, made up of bits and pieces, and designed, in a large part, to be peripheral, that is, people in the West are not to bother their heads, all this has nothing to do with .. whatever Joe Public would consider bad, except for attacks against his countrymen or bungling by is Gvmt. Mafia gone global!
The holding back has nothing to do with guilt or morality, but is partly designed to keep rich democracies on an even keel. The model is in fact an outcome of specialisation: why take more than one needs? Why follow a WW2 model, with its great expenditure and massive deaths? Why not just go for what one wants? Why, then, pay attention to what the Nation State is (or was cracked up to be), or the Geneva conventions, or UN rules? All commercial companies in the world apply that kind of reasoning. Rummy knows all about that…
It is, in effect, war without war. Resource theft covered in free market policies. Bombs planted by under cover contractors to indiscrimately kill soldiers and civilans. The encouragement of civil strife, where different parties may eliminate each other has become a mantra, as it was very succesful in one case, splitting up a minor power into impotent statelets, having no autonomy, with their resources and economy completely taken over by the West.
But it won’t work. Not in the long run.

Posted by: Noisette | May 3 2006 17:54 utc | 11

Just to remember the Casement Report on the real life situation that Conrad was fictionalizing:
. . . Two cases (of mutilation) came to my actual notice while I was in the lake district. One, a young man, both of whose hands had been beaten off with the butt ends of rifles against a tree; the other a young lad of 11 or 12 years of age, whose right hand was cut off at the wrist. . . . I both these cases the Government soldiers had been accompanied by white officers whose names were given to me. Of six natives (one a girl, three little boys, one youth, and one old woman) who had been mutilated in this way during the rubber regime, all except one were dead at the date of my visit.
these two Congolesewere survivors
I guess the slogan should have been “No arms for rubber!”
I’m glad that Mark Twain called Leopold out on that one. One of the few Americans…and most of them were writers/journalists.
As far as white supremacy– of course it’s forbidden now in polite conversation– of course only a pinheaded faction of whites now say these sorts of things…but look at the actions of ppl in power to see what a society really thinks by the way it acts on those thoughts. –Katrina. pretending we’ve not caused as much (really more) suffering for Iraqis than Saddam ever could. –the attacks on Indian Sikhs after 9-11. the shock and awe lies.
billmon sez-
You have to wonder how much ferocity the Shelby Steele’s of the world would need to see before they’d accept that Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld have finally put their white guilt behind them.
LOL in a crying kinda way.
Steele’s statement:
This is a fact that must be integrated into our public life — absorbed as new history — so that America can once again feel the moral authority to seriously tackle its most profound problems. Then, if we decide to go to war, it can be with enough ferocity to win.
okay, that’s a non-sequitor to me. moral authority –and ferocity to win? America’s most profound problems are how to eliminate terrorism, so you terrorize an entire country? and then find that it’s not the greatest idea to do this? no such thing as butter, just guns?
I was opposed to the war because of white guilt?!?!?! I don’t think so. What an idiotic displacing the issue statement. Facts really don’t matter if moral authority can be invoked, I suppose.

Posted by: fauxreal | May 3 2006 18:35 utc | 12

People like Steele and others like him are looking for a scapegoat, like say the “liberal” in neo-liberal — George Bush is a failure because of his internal goodness, his conscientiousness,and his willingness to sacrifice for the good of others. All these qualities have made George Bush fail in Iraq because he is a fucking Liberal, screw the neo. Having the power to destroy the world 30 or 40 times over again with military might, it comes no mean suprise to some of these people that anyone assume the right to choose, and dare say no — when only the most powerful nation can bequeath that right, to allow the other choice. And George Bush has failed in Iraq because he has givin the Iraqi people choice before aquiessence, has seen them as people, before seeing them as the enemy. Where’s our Hitler, when you’re stuck with Mussolini?

Posted by: anna missed | May 3 2006 19:03 utc | 13

Shorter Shelby:

“Whites need to stop feeling guilty about their past atrocities so they can start committing new ones.”

(The really sad thing is, I’m not at all sure Shelby would disagree with my characterization.)

Posted by: Night Owl | May 3 2006 20:25 utc | 14

It got me wondering: would a non-racist America have been mentally capable of defeating Japan in World War II?
Which has got me wondering: would a non-racist America have started a war with Japan?

Posted by: DM | May 4 2006 9:43 utc | 15

Hear, hear, DM.
You beat me to that one.
I dropped by to point to The Counterpunch lead story.
required reading for every USuk citizen.
The article by a veteran of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, Americal Division. The killing machine who brought the people of Vietnam My Lai.
His article is entitled:
“Our Descent Into Hell Has Begun”
Swindell who is now a newspaper editor traces the path toward butchery that USuk have walked in Iraq.
He makes many valid points to me the most important of which is:
First, understand that a single soldier can’t be expected to grasp the total criminality of war because his whole universe is a tiny place right in front of his nose. So he can stay alive. If he knew everything that was going on, he would be heartbroken, and if he also knew why, he would go insane.
The narrowness of his vision is exactly how even the best and most humane soldier unwillingly becomes a monster, and the people who create war know this. Out of grief and rage, with the stench of his buddy’s shredded flesh in his nostrils, the soldier stops asking questions and then begins making up his own rules with a rifle. He has touched the heart of darkness and there’s no going back ever.

Those readers unwilling to accept US butchery and who want to regard this post as being an example of anti-americanism need to consider Swindell’s point. This descent into slaughter isn’t the preserve of a particular race or nationality. It is what happens in armed conflict. Precisely the reason why many of us gave up on the notion of violent revolution.
The reason why the only justifiable war is a defensive war in reaction to an actual attack. Not pre-emptive and never for material benefit.
I used the word justifiable not just because war is never just, and not justified because ‘the jury’ will always be out on that until the dust has settled, after which it may be possible to justify the defensive battle.
This is relevant to DM’s point since the economic siege of Japan by pale skinned led nations, in particular the US who saw the whole Pacific as their next territory to expand into, engendered an atmosphere within Japan where the nasty rightists that make up a proportion of any country’s population got the reins of power.
Anyway Swindell’s article is pretty stark in the way it describes the crisis each and every USuk citizen currently faces.
These assholes currently driving the slaughter are not going to stop of their own accord. The ballot box may put a more palatable face on the slaughter but won’t redress the past slaughters and will enable many of the existing massacres to continue.
Remember when the debate about the effect that Negroponte’s arrival in Iraq would mean was raging at the Whisky Bar? At that time I along with several others couldn’t see how death squads would work in a country as confidently self assured about their nationality as Iraqis appeared to be.
The factions were far more integrated than in somewhere like the former Yugoslavia or Lebanon.
But we didn’t consider that Negroponte and co had no limits on their depravity.
I believe that the vast majority of the attacks on mosques and the slaughter of shites in sunni areas and sunnis in shiite areas are coldly calculated murders by unscrupulous killers determined to divide and rule.
As a certain J Morrison once said:
The time for hesitation’s through.
There’s no time to wallow in the mire

Posted by: Anonymous | May 4 2006 22:01 utc | 16

thanks for the counterpunch piece, debs – their articles are as always, instructive

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 4 2006 23:22 utc | 17

Which has got me wondering: would a non-racist America have started a war with Japan?
Wait a minute, didn’t the Japanese start the war with America by bombing Pearl Harbor? Or are you suggesting that fairer treatment of Japanese immigrants in America would have prevented the rise of Japanese militarism in the first place?

Posted by: George Carty | May 5 2006 8:37 utc | 18

Wait a minute, didn’t the Americans start the war with Japan with an oil embargo? Or are you suggesting that history is as writ by Hollywood?

Posted by: DM | May 5 2006 18:03 utc | 19

An embargo (unlike a blockade) isn’t an act of war under international law. Anyway, shouldn’t the Japanese have thought carefully before invading China about their potential dependence on American oil? (Japan mainly needed oil for its war machine, rather than its domestic economy.)

Posted by: George Carty | May 5 2006 18:25 utc | 20

Shelby Steele talks about the defeat of White supremacy and the need to once again feel moral authority.
Theres nothing new here. Over the years, racial superiority has yielded to moral superiority. Steele is stating the obvious. However he terms it moral authority rather than moral superiority.
There really is little or no difference. Likewise for instance, what amount of difference lies between racial authority (the bantusans) & racial superiority (Jim Crow).
The fact that he attributes “moral authority” exclusively to Whites speaks volumes. Where is this all going ? Rumsfeld picking up where MLK left off ?

Posted by: jony_b_coole | Jul 8 2006 11:58 utc | 21

This message is in response to a column on Shelby Steele:
My husband purchased a copy of White Guilt by Shelby Steele. After finishing it, he suggested that I read it; he thought that Mr. Steele had written a worthwhile book. Having heard Mr. Steele speak on cable TV, I had already formed the opinion that his Black conservative rhetoric just wasn’t my type of reading. Nevertheless, since the book was close at hand, I would give it a try. I read several of the first chapters, most of the middle, decided I couldn’t take it, and skipped to the last few pages. I called My husband and asked if Steele had talked about his wife in the book, since his father-in-law had been mentioned. My husband couldn’t recall. I explained that it had been my experience that mixed-race authors (usually white/black) and black writers married to white women seem to think that their social perspective (being part of a white family) allows them to print all of their musings, criticisms, and conclusions about Blacks without being challenged. Conservative Blacks really don’t deserve a separate label from conservative Whites; there is no distinction. I am disappointed that my spouse spent money on this book which is sure to further encourage Mr. Steele to continue to spew his (hard fought for) White perspective on what is wrong with Black America while excusing Whites (their culpability is generation-specific and needs to be contextualized and forgotten) in what he perceives as Blacks’ flight from responsibility. Obviously, I agree with your column on Mr. Steele and wish to commend you for not following the blame the victim mentality (most people would agree that slavery, segregation, and institutional racism are not victimless occurrences) that conservatives have today (the gimme intellectuals who want all they can get, but scorn those who are not like them who want to do the same). As for Blacks like Steele and Clarence Thomas, it appears that their efforts to breed a better race of Blacks by marrying white women is gaining momentum. I am all for race mixing and interracial marriage but not at the cost of my being degraded as part of a race not willing to take responsibility for itself. And by the way, unlike Mr. Steele, 53 years of exposure to covert and overt racism has damaged my self-esteem. Perhaps, if I had had a White parent like Mr. Steele to soften the sting of racism, I too would have been less affected. Just imagine what even worse exposure did to generations before me. Near the end of his book, Mr. Steele states, “It is the rare black who gets to live without the world expecting him to pretend. So I don’t mind so much that little bit of hot tar the world has poured on my head”. I am glad that Mr. Steele found his freedom, due in large part to certain advantages (whether he admits it or not, to his whiteness), I just don’t want his ilk to dump on what freedom my family has been able to achieve (despite American racist tendencies) without the same advantages he so freely exploits.

Posted by: Tee | Nov 5 2006 17:27 utc | 22