Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 30, 2006
The Pope’s Sorry Excuse

Pope Bendict recently visited Auschwitz and he made some statements which I regard as plain wrong.

He said he came there,

"as a son of the German people, a son of that people over which a ring of criminals rose to power by false promises of future greatness and the recovery of the nation’s honor, prominence and prosperity, but also through terror and intimidation."

As a German, who’s parents were young grown ups during that time, I recall their stories and tales about various people, and I got to know some of these too. These people supported Hitler and his deeds without being part of "a ring of criminals". They were probably not the majority, but they were those normal Germans who were not deceived, but supported the brutality of the regime out of their free personal will and mind.

The industialized genozide, the historic destinct character of the Shoa, was not just the rampage of a few people. To put the blame on a small criminal group is convinient. But it misses the historic facts.

The pope also failed to mention the agreeing silence at that time of most of his church’s functionaries. He did not mention the 2000 year long history of christian motivated antisemitism. And being in Poland to recall the six million Polish death through World War II without reminding that half of these were Jews and were not killed for their nationality but because of their religious heritage also misses a point.

Some of some these were victims of their Polish neighbors, like in Jedwabne during the war and even after the war in Kielce. The current radical right Polish government and the associated cathofashist Radio Maryja prove, that this sentiment is not extinguished, but very much alive.

That he should have mentioned too.

Comments

poland, even more than the ukraine, lithuaniaa, etstonia, beylorussia what was once called ‘the pale’ – was a nightmare for jewish people a clear century before the german armies arrived – nazism just concretised an active anti semitism into an exterminatory anti-semitism – on this there can be no substantial argument with daniel goldhagen
the holocaust’s most magisterial historian to this day is raul hilberg & what he has written can never, ever – be denied. as a historian he has taught all other real historians from what real work is constituted. he is reallt the father of precision in the study of history. he doesn’t breath without sourcing it
the books b suggests on poland are substantial works
i am at the moment reading a a history called – ‘bad faith’ – on french anti semitism – another horror story
it is no accident that in the east at least there exists a substantial anti semitism tho almost the entire jewish populations of these countries was liquidated – exterminated & there have only been very small communities which have remained
their anti semitism represents the most basic & brutal return to the crudest forms of nationalism
anti zionism & anti semitism in france are not the same thing & their roots are qualitatively different -sometimes they appear to converge – but in a material way they do not

Posted by: r’giap | May 30 2006 18:24 utc | 1

For once, I must disagree with rgiap. The reason there were so many Jews in Poland was that Poland had a long history of religious tolerance. Unlike most of the rest of Europe, the gentry republic of Poland generally tolerated all religions, including Socinians, whom most Christians considered atheists, and as such the most despised of all. Jews did not have the same rights as Christians, but they were free to earn their livelihood and order their lives.
Shortly before World War II, there was an upsurge in “formal” anti-semitism in Poland. This is to be contrasted to a long history of envy (Jews were often more prosperous than Polish peasants, and even the “gentry” who made up 10 percent of the population, and who were often indistinguishable from peasants). Poland, however, never had the sort of pogroms one saw in Russia or Ukraine, and the Polish crown was quite diligent about protecting Jewish rights (and, overall, the rights of other minority religious groups as well). This is not to portray pre-war Poland as some sort of paradise for Jews, but the popular stereotype of Poles as being raging anti-semites is inaccurate.
My real quarrel with rgiap, though, is to focus on nationality rather than religion. The fact is that the Roman Catholic Church at best ignored the Holocaust, and at worst was complicit in it. Benedict’s statements are of a piece with past excuses by the Church. The fact is, Hitler came to power in large part because politicians of the Catholic Center Party in Germany thought they could control him, and hey, what’s a little Jew-bashing between friends?
Germany knew pretty much exactly what it was getting with Hitler. I can be so blunt, because we Americans must say the same about Bush. He claimed to be a compassionate conservative, a uniter not a divider, etc., but the very fact that he brought the courts in to overturn the will of the people in 2000 demonstrated that all he (and his puppet masters) cared about was power, not democracy or legality. So the question is, what do we “good Americans” do, so that the world does not look on us as it did the Germans and ask “why did they let this happen”?

Posted by: Aigin | May 30 2006 18:57 utc | 2

In 60 years time will we be sharing posts about the genocide of 20% of Iraq’s population; the Sunni?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | May 30 2006 20:53 utc | 3

aigin
i did not mean all poles all the time – but the generation of my mother – the jews of poland & eastern europe have an unforgiving memory
but i know we essentially agree with b on the main question – that no one least of all the political class have ever resolved the mass production of genocide – they have only added further improvements whether it was algeria, congo, indochina, indonesia, latin america vietnam & now iraq & in afghanistan
that old fool carl jung sd a wise thing – that sentimentality is the superstructure of brutality & that is way the human race has dealt with the question of genocide therefore allowing endless repititions
& the dominant culture of those united staes really has made a business from this sentimentality; whether it was michael cimino’s piece of shit, platoon, band of brothers & of course the treacly premiere ‘holocaust’
& the panzer pope like pius before him is nothing if not a sentimentalist

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 30 2006 21:59 utc | 4

R’giap has absolutely nailed one key aspect with his quote from Jung: sentimentality is the superstructure of brutality. The Nazis glorified sentiment, both in the formal sense of feeling over thinking, and in the sense of sentimentality. They took schmaltziness to a whole new level. The parallels with the Bush Administration, and its glorification of the stereotypes (archetypes) like the taciturn, shoot from the hip cowboy, the honest church-going fag-hating flag-waving small businessman and the rosy-cheeked stay at home wife, are striking. And CP is right too. Again I ask — what will we Americans say we did, and, more importantly, what should we be doing?

Posted by: Aigin | May 30 2006 22:13 utc | 5

A bunch of Poles used to drive for a pizza joint and once I overheard them chatting whilst I was waiting for a slice. They were blaming all their problems on Jews.
Plus ca change…
Every godfearing, patriotic nationalist needs a whipping boy and now it is the muslims turn

Posted by: gmac | May 30 2006 22:42 utc | 6

i hope this works a little light

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 30 2006 23:51 utc | 7

& watch the swines at the cnn trough regurgitating their own bile & shit in trying to explain away haditha

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 31 2006 1:53 utc | 8

Amazin’ the Ginga is still alive! He was looking like he was about to shuffle off any minute 30 years ago fallin off barstools in the Speakeasy.
Everyone seems to be saying the same things.
As far as I can see the closet pope has cut a deal with the zionist lobby to help perpetuate the holocaust industry, in return for which they don’t discuss his flirtations with nazism or aryan acolytes.
None of the European nations have clean hands when examined too closely for their treatment of ‘different’ ethnicities; which makes this ‘blame the ‘nazis’ who don’t really exist anymore so pointing the finger at them is both cathartic and repercussion free, a damn cynical act.
The zionists and their supporters on both sides of the Atlantic who promulgate this, ‘the only anti-semitism came from Hitelr apart from a dash of Joe Stalin’ myth reveal that they have no regard at all for the people in whose name they claim to speak.
That is the victims of 20th Century anti-semitism. By distorting the truth of the suffering of jewish people in Europe, denying the existence of massacre outside the Nazi regime and ignoring the genocide which pretty much ended the culture of the last nomads in western europe, ie tinkers, gypsies, or romany, this pope and his fellow travellers are continuing the oppression.
Haditha has been on my mind for much of the day too rgiap.
I’m concerned that these murderers trial and punishment will be twisted in such a way as to make it appear this slaughter was a rare aberration rather than S.O.P. in any war that isn’t a speedy pushover.
It seems likely that a few horrors occured in Somalia and Latin America, committed by US forces but it is equally likely that large scale atrocities haven’t been the ‘go’ since Vietnam. Discipline becomes virtually impossible to maintain in any armed force in a situation where the cannon fodder is taking lots of hits and they have lost confidence in a leader-ship which has been both incompetent and dishonest.
As Aigin said above, what are amerikans going to do now that the truth of one of the atrocities is out?
Will they rise up against the assholes who instigated the Iraqi horrors?
Or will they stay in their comfort zone re-assuring themselves that this was a one off, quickly corrected by their guvmint, in that way behaving just as ‘good germans’ did?

Posted by: Anonymous | May 31 2006 3:10 utc | 9

Mr. Hitler Youth he was, and Mr Hitler Youth he is. Never faced up, never owned up, and never repented.
It shows.

Posted by: Gaianne | May 31 2006 4:13 utc | 10

When reports of the massacre in Jedwabne came out and it was clear that the Poles not only stood by and watched, but actively participated, it started a storm of protest and indignation.
An old Polish gentleman attempted to explain that “the Jews” had deserved their fate for collaborating with the Soviet occupiers in 1940.
I could only shake my head over the fact that this fellow had no idea of modern society & justice: we do not prosecute and punish entire groups of people for guilt by association.
If there had been collaborators among the Jews, then they should’ve been put on trial as individuals. And as far as I know, burning alive is not an acceptable form of capital punishment (except among a few of America’s central Asian allies in the War on Terror).

Posted by: ralphieboy | May 31 2006 5:57 utc | 11

@ralphieboy
“we do not prosecute and punish entire groups of people for guilt by association.”
I don’t want to quibble over details, but I believe that is precisely what US forces did to the city of Falluja. And in that case, burning alive was also precisely the method of capital punishment which was employed. I’m really not sure which civilized “we” it is that you are referring to here.
And as long as we are using the defunct political movement of the Nazis as our yardstick for industrialised genocide, I must say that I agree with Mehmet Elkatmi, the head of the Turkish parliament’s human rights commission, when he said about Bush’s Iraq war that: “Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor of Hitler nor of Mussolini.” (28th November 2004)

Posted by: Monolycus | May 31 2006 7:41 utc | 12

What will Americans do? Most will not do anything because they don’t know that anything is wrong. Most do not pay any attention to foreign policy news. Of those that do, 2/3 watch Fox, so they’ll hear the whitewashed version. I dare say that 21st century Americans are much less informed than mid 20th century Germans.

Posted by: gylangirl | May 31 2006 12:55 utc | 13

@Nono,
well, let me rephrase it as “civilized peoples are not supposed to prosecute and punish entire groups of people…”

Posted by: ralphieboy | May 31 2006 13:20 utc | 14

@ralphieboy
“civilized peoples are not supposed to prosecute and punish entire groups of people…”
I can’t argue against that. Wouldn’t be civilized. *insert some kind of smiley face or something here to defuse any ill will that might arise from the snarkiness of my comment* I am just concerned that much of the time we continue point to particular flaws even in the absence of genuine alternatives.
Dissatisfaction with evil can not be a bad thing, I wouldn’t suspect, unless it has us reflexively jumping to another evil by way of response. Or, by way of analogy, disgust and outrage with the abuses performed by the Republican Party is entirely reasonable and sensible. Imagining that an electable Democrat candidate is a knight on a white horse is not.
It’s already been mentioned that Nazis are a safe outlet for us to be appalled by. It’s hard to imagine that backlash from the pro-Nazi community is going to arise to bite us on the ass. But in order to oust Hitler, Churchill and Roosevelt backed the monster Stalin (who, for the record, ordered many, many more deaths than Hitler ever did). Hence, my compunction about jumping on a blind opposition bandwagon. As popular as it is right now to decry the evil empire of the US, I have no faith that any other of our pet groups of people would in the fullness of time do anything any differently (I’m giving Canada another 40 years before they start some Imperial expansion. The seeds of hubris are being planted deeply there. Pick your own idealised Utopia or underdog ethnic group and fill in the blank yourself.)
And I also think it’s interesting that we’re decrying “guilt by association” in the same thread in which we bring up Pope Ratzenberger’s past membership in the Hitler Youth. I’m not a Catholic, nor am I a fan of Ratzenberger’s public ethos, but I’d have the same problems with his positions even if he were a card-carrying member of Greenpeace.
In too many ways, I see us doing the same things as the old Polish gentleman you mentioned… Ratzenberger was a Nazi, Americans are all complicit Imperialists, White people are evil, Jews are Zionists, Republicans are corporatists… the list goes on and on. And I do it myself a bit as well (I’m trying very, very hard to forgive Kucinich for his continued party affiliation). Once, on a thread here, slothrop was denouncing the “purity” of people who criticised the Bush administration (I believe it was Jimmy Carter at first). I very disingenuously challenged him or her to name a “pure” activist knowing full well that with two minutes and a search engine I could dig up some dirt on whomever was named. But it’s a pointless exercise.
I am humbled by the genius of many people here to find flaws that I did not previously know existed or to point out how untenable this or that situation is in actuality. But what I am not seeing here are proposed tenable solutions or alternatives. We can have romantic views of any persecuted group and be disgusted by the realities that are being perpetrated by the privileged, but in doing so, we are really indulging in a pretty offensive “noble savage” mentality that would not lead us to a better world in reality… it only shifts our prejudices to more “politically correct” or “acceptable” targets.
Sorry for the length of the rant above and my inability to articulate more clearly what my problem here is. I do have a point buried somewhere up there, but I’m afraid it is going to have to remain a little incoherent for now.

Posted by: Monolycus | May 31 2006 14:12 utc | 15

We’ve all got dirty hands. Both sides of my family were slave owners in the Old South. Five of my ancestors fought in the Confederate Army (though, oddly enough, none owned slaves). My family got its land in Northwest Georgia when it helped kick the Cherokee out. None of this bothers me much, because I wasn’t there. I am here now, I am an American, and I see what we’re doing in Iraq and the rest of the world. Monolycus is absolutely right. Now that we’ve confirmed that people in general are nasty animals, what do we do about the current solution? I don’t want to be a “good American.”

Posted by: Aigin | May 31 2006 14:46 utc | 16

@Monolycus and Aigin (& gylangirl),
Thank you for articulating exactly what has been driving me into silence. We all have dirty hands, and so do any champions we might throw up. And every time we establish a villain, we dirty our hands again.
I prefer your and gylangirl’s interaction on the new open thread – recognizing the latest corruptions of the constitution for what they are, and responding not by shrinking away in horror, but by feeling gratitude and relief at the better perspective gained. I gather our horror-ification is just one more desired effect of these crimes against our common human humanity, and I cannot see any way through but the ancient one – to witness, to understand, to remember, and to keep caring. Nothing more. This is hard enough.
Thanks for helping me to keep understanding, and to keep caring.

Posted by: citizen | May 31 2006 15:42 utc | 17

I have a question for Monolycus, r’giap, anna missed, and the many others here who impress me over and over with your ability to keep remembering your times.
How do you do it? I find it extremely difficult to remember.

Posted by: citizen | May 31 2006 15:47 utc | 18

@citizen (and Aigan)
I take it as a kindness that you were able to wade through the mess of what I wrote and pick out from it what I meant.
“How do you do it? I find it extremely difficult to remember.”
It’s an illusion. It appears that we remember more than we do because people don’t, as a rule, talk about what they’ve forgotten.

Posted by: Monolycus | May 31 2006 16:35 utc | 19

we may be beasts but there are some amongst us who see the sacred

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 31 2006 17:59 utc | 20

same sacred song -isle of wight – always reminds me of the art of anna missed

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 31 2006 18:32 utc | 21

Thanks r`giap – I am just listening to an old Zappa concert on the radio. Classic music at its best.

Posted by: b | May 31 2006 18:40 utc | 22

yes i know b – the youngsters with all their deafening headbanging wagner & berg & schoenberg gets on my nerves too

Posted by: remembereringgiap | May 31 2006 19:03 utc | 23

the youtube is really astounding. wasn’t aware until today so many goodies were there, including this astounding bit from the goiod captain.
high-voltage man brings light to all who need to hide their shadows deep.
where has all the greatness gone?

Posted by: slothrop | May 31 2006 19:34 utc | 24

@Monoman,
justice is an ideal that we all fall short of, but one of the key tenets of any true system of justice has to be that we are reponsible for our own actions only, and not those of the people we associate with (or are associated with). Without it, we are not far removed from the level of tribal conflict.
Religious affiliation might give some insight into the moral standards a person seeks to uphold, but it says nothing about how any particular individual actually upholds them. We need only think about the scandals surrounding Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker and the Reverend Jesse Jackson…

Posted by: ralphieboy | May 31 2006 19:41 utc | 25

@ralphie
I don’t disagree with the “ought to be” you are painting, my concern is that in one breath we are using our broadest brushes to condemn all the people who use broad brushes. I’m certainly not criticising you specifically and I think we have a lot of common ground in our positions.
@gmac
The counterpunch pages you link to here and in the open thread lead me to a blind subscriber page. Could you give me the gist or copy any relevant quotes? Vielen Dank.

Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 1 2006 3:15 utc | 27

Catholic Church and Nazism in Germany and Croatia Cardinal Ratzinger / Pope Benedict XVI’s supposed Nazi past. Ratzinger has insisted he never took part in combat or fired a shot, neither has Bush.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jun 1 2006 7:15 utc | 28

Sloth that is good. Captain B. is stupendous in small helpings.
high culture
for your friend RG
America – crazy
strange, and hyped and beautiful and not yet drowned and so far from the mothership, but above all – humanistic! and anti-social

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 7:34 utc | 29

I must say that I agree with Mehmet Elkatmi, the head of the Turkish parliament’s human rights commission, when he said about Bush’s Iraq war that: “Never in human history have such genocide and cruelty been witnessed. Such a genocide was never seen in the time of the pharaohs nor of Hitler nor of Mussolini.”
Why do you agree with something so patently ridiculous and dishonest? Bushie has not yet caught up with the Mongols in Iraq (see this for a light hearted account) and think of what they coulda done with a gunship or two, and Turks who speak of genocide are often like Belgians who speak of colonialism – there is a required disclaimer that renders by its absence everything else as fraudulent. The Brits did pretty well in Iraq too, not to mention Saddam and the level of slaughter in the iran/Iraq war was very impressive. I mean, read up on the effin Crusades for the love of Christ. In the middle east, if you want to create a particularly noticeable slaughter, you need some flair and originality.
Human history is a nightmare from which we struggle to awake, said some German drunk once.

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 7:53 utc | 30

Sloth:
some refined music.
When I was a little kid, while RG wanted to grow up to be Lei Feng chairman mao’s heroic truckdriver, I wanted to grow up to be Wayne Kramer and achieve that cool, studied nonchalance.

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 8:35 utc | 31

Slothrop!
find of the century — the ultimate in post vietnam dada blues, I mentioned here once that I saw the cap’tn live in a cleveland rocknroll club, and was mesmerized. would sell my children to see his rendition of orange claw hammer again — live of course. thanks!

Posted by: anna missed | Jun 1 2006 9:05 utc | 32

Slothrop!
find of the century — the ultimate in post vietnam dada blues, I mentioned here once that I saw the cap’tn live in a cleveland rocknroll club, and was mesmerized. would sell my children to see his rendition of orange claw hammer again — live of course. thanks!

Posted by: anna missed | Jun 1 2006 9:46 utc | 33

Citizen k

Posted by: anna missed | Jun 1 2006 9:48 utc | 34

“…Turks who speak of genocide are often like Belgians who speak of colonialism …”
And here we are again. Can’t judge the content of a human’s character until we discuss the colour of their skins or flags. ‘Round and ’round she goes… nobody’s hands are getting any cleaner and this “civilised” group who does not deal in collective guilt is becoming increasingly mythical.

Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 1 2006 10:14 utc | 35

@Monolycus
Links don’t work, eh? Funny, I don’t subscribe and they do for me.
http://www.counterpunch.org/hubert05152006.html
That link in this thread leads to a lengthy article about christian fundamentalists. Scary ‘thinking’ and suspect morality.
http://www.counterpunch.org/frank05312006.html
This one in the other thread is an article outlining Gore’s environmental performance while in office. It seems a wee suspect as well, given his book/movie.

Posted by: gmac | Jun 1 2006 10:18 utc | 36

and think of what they coulda done with a gunship or two
something like this perhaps

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 1 2006 10:28 utc | 37

And here we are again. Can’t judge the content of a human’s character until we discuss the colour of their skins or flags. ‘Round and ’round she goes… nobody’s hands are getting any cleaner and this “civilised” group who does not deal in collective guilt is becoming increasingly mythical.
Not at all. When the official “human rights” representative of a government that was founded on genocide and denies it, and that has given Amnesty International a lot to write about makes idiotic comments about genocide, it would be irresponsible not to notice the idiocy. Jeb Bush might as well comment sagely on the importance of free elections.

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 14:09 utc | 38

@citizen k
“Jeb Bush might as well comment sagely on the importance of free elections.”
No, it is not the same thing at all. Jeb Bush is an individual whose culpability in a particular situation is beyond question, but to assert that any member of an entire nation of people does not merit speaking on the subject of human rights because of actions performed by other members of that nation is nothing short of inexcusable bigotry.
An extension of the argument you present would eliminate Bernhard (a German) from participating in debates on human rights because some Germans in the past institutionalised human rights abuses. By reductio ad absurdum, none of us are qualified by the standard you are laying down to address anything at all since we are all human beings and, as can be demonstrated, some human beings have behaved badly.
In this and other threads I have seen a hell of a lot of the worst kinds of intolerance disguised as moral superiority and I am becoming sickened by it. At least the Freepers are up front about their self-righteous hubris.

Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 1 2006 14:41 utc | 39

never saw holiday sing strange fruit. cool.
that you tube thing provides too much access to culture. better shut it down.

Posted by: slothrop | Jun 1 2006 14:59 utc | 40

You cite an official “human rights” representative of the Turkish state, not some random Ozman-on-the-street. This is like the old joke about the Russian Premier questioning the Czech Premier about why the Czechs bother to have a Minister of Naval Affairs – the Czech response is “for the same reason you have a Minister of Justice”.
Secondly, what this government official says is a patent lie even for Iraq. The history of unbearable cruelty is long and i don’t think that Cossacks sewing cats into pregnant women in 17th century poland, Japanese soldiers murder/rapes and “medical experiments” in Nanjing, Lt. Calley, the Gestapo, or the Turkish genocide of Armenians or Mussolini’s lessons to the Ethiopians are in any way eclipsed by the atrocities of the Bush regimes criminal war in Iraq. To make such a claim is to label oneself as a liar and propagandist – as one might expect from the human rights representative of a government that practices routine torture.
Finally, your charge of “tribalism” is I think a false one. It is one thing to count Serbs as your bitter enemies because of some idiotic battle 1000 years ago and something else to be appalled by the hypocritical attitude of Belgian human rights activists living on a pile of Congolese bones from which much of the present wealth of Belgium was brutally extracted and smugly deriding the brutality of the American South. The narrative in which violence and brutality are abberations from the civilized norm of nations is a lie designed to justify criminality.

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 15:22 utc | 41

Just to clarify, even if the head of the Turkish secret police were to say “The US war in Iraq is criminal and brutal” and so on, it would be completely ok by me. What raises my hackles is the “worse than any” bullshit that is an obvious effort to lie about what Turkey does to human beings. I have the same visceral reaction to for example French critics of Israel. To say the Israeli government is brutal and engages in vile acts is one thing, but to claim that this is a deviation from the standard order of State business is something else entirely. The horror, said Mr. Kurz, as he continued to trade for Ivory and bring light to the darkenss as long as the bullets lasted.

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 15:36 utc | 42

you tube’s sorta cool. radio birdman. really lousy quality zappa playing black napkins on the mike douglas show (w/ the show’s band, not his)

Posted by: b real | Jun 1 2006 15:48 utc | 43

Human history is a nightmare from which we struggle to awake, said some German drunk once.
Irish drunk. The best kind.
“History, Stephen said, is the nightmare from which I am trying to awake.”
Yes. James Joyce put those words in Stephen Daedelus’ mouth.Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.
Yes.
The artist, like the God of the creation, remains within or behind or beyond or above his handiwork, invisible, refined out of existence, indifferent, paring his fingernails
said that, too.

Posted by: Molly Bloom | Jun 1 2006 17:30 utc | 44

“that you tube thing provides too much access to culture. better shut it down.”
That’s already been taken care of here. “Admin blocked”

Posted by: beq | Jun 1 2006 18:01 utc | 45

Sugarcube

Posted by: Second Pink Hair in the Back | Jun 1 2006 19:15 utc | 46

Molly: yes, but as far as my failing memory goes, Karl M. said it first, although it sounds better with an Irish accent. Faith! and the old fellow does run on, then.
I’m not sure I buy the theory that Irish drunks are the best kind, but maybe that’s ’cause I know too many.
Odd thing is how popular the belief that the current times is the end-times and how hard people work to make this belief come true.

Posted by: citizen k | Jun 1 2006 20:40 utc | 47

pour b real & autre saints

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jun 2 2006 1:24 utc | 48

18th Brumaire
Men make their own history, but they do not make it just as they please; they do not make it under circumstances chosen by themselves, but under circumstances directly encountered, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all the dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brain of the living.
How much does a nightmare weigh?

Posted by: oui mais non | Jun 2 2006 2:17 utc | 49