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May 14, 2006
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If you don´t comment here Cheney wins.
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This piece by Patrick Cockburn serves to underline the consequences to the U.S. occupation in Iraq, if full blown civil war were to break out — that the Iraqi army and security forces would dissolve into their sectarian antecedents — leaving little or no armed force to do the bidding of the occupation. Posted by: anna missed | May 14 2006 8:31 utc | 2 MI5 were on the case, and the London bombings could have been avoided. Posted by: Cloned Poster | May 14 2006 13:51 utc | 3 Hell of a Frank Rich column liberated here
thanks b- I was just about to do that myself. Posted by: fauxreal | May 14 2006 15:56 utc | 5 Development as if the world mattered Posted by: You Asked | May 14 2006 16:42 utc | 6 So many people say they won’t ask for anything else if Rove is indicted. Me, I want Cheney there beside him. Happy Motherzs day mothers…I find it funny how many people know nothing of the origin of Mothers day. I posted the following (see below)to a so called liberal board and was astounded at the people who had no clue about mothers day; and the flack I got for bringing up the war. Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 14 2006 18:27 utc | 8 Three-level security flaws found in Diebold touch-screens. Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 14 2006 18:38 utc | 9 @You Asked Posted by: Anonymous | May 14 2006 18:41 utc | 10 RE: Posted by: anna missed | May 14, 2006 4:31:34 AM, Patrick I like Frank Rich. He wrote an excellent analysis of the regime’s “reaction” to 9/11 right after same, and was subsequently banished to the Magazine for three or four years. Posted by: John Francis Lee | May 15 2006 0:27 utc | 12 Lest ye forget. Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 15 2006 0:34 utc | 13 Y’all remember Fran of course. Never hear from her any more here because she’s a regular over at European Tribune. However she just posted a real uplift for me. Posted by: Juannie | May 15 2006 0:42 utc | 14 @Juannie: I’m a bit more cynical than Fran (and a lot more so than Gandhi!), so here’s another formulation for those who have a jaundiced view of human nature like me: “the thinkers versus the thugs. The thugs always win, but the thinkers always outlast them.” –Petr Beckmann Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 15 2006 4:44 utc | 15 @Juannie, I am still lurking around here and once in a while even post, wouldn’t want to miss it. Glad to know you also visit ET and happy to hear the Gandhi quote was uplifting to you. 🙂 Posted by: Fran | May 15 2006 4:51 utc | 16 @Juannie, et al… Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 15 2006 7:28 utc | 17 Here is Negroponte’s assertion of the state secrets privilege in the EFF lawsuit. Not surprising, but depressing nonetheless. Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 15 2006 8:21 utc | 18 Oops, make that here for the Negroponte link from Cryptome. Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 15 2006 8:23 utc | 19 Thanks, Uncle. Posted by: jonku | May 15 2006 9:17 utc | 20 Of course it doesn’t hurt to have the money. Posted by: jonku | May 15 2006 10:03 utc | 21 Asia Times’ Spengler Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 15 2006 11:12 utc | 22 Just in case something bad happens, remember Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 15 2006 11:24 utc | 23 Here’s another bit of interesting news regarding Israeli-Egyptian Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 15 2006 12:28 utc | 24 An oil bourse here, an oil bourse there… Posted by: Alamet | May 15 2006 15:52 utc | 25 ABC News, NY Times, WashPost under Federal surveillance!” Posted by: jj | May 15 2006 19:43 utc | 26 Really Pissed Off Posted by: Cloned Poster | May 15 2006 20:34 utc | 27 Cloned Poster, I am surprised – because I thought the US had already imposed a ban on arms sales to Venezuela quite some time back. As far as I can remember only a few months ago Spain was not able to sale military planes to Venezuela because they contained US technology. Posted by: Fran | May 15 2006 20:44 utc | 28 Happ,
Posted by: a swedish kind of deat | May 15 2006 22:00 utc | 29 a swedish kind of deat- @Cloned Poster –
Against a fence the repub “base” is madly cannibalizing itself today over bush’s speech. they want blood, mexican blood, and bush only gave them 6000 national guardsman. Posted by: slothrop | May 16 2006 16:32 utc | 33 Arch war criminal Kissinger is coming out against an attack on Iran
Why would he do so if an attack were not imminent? Solent Green is PEOPLE!!!!!
Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 16 2006 21:43 utc | 35 @Uncle Scam: You’ve missed the point of that story. The problem isn’t that they have spliced a human gene into rice — it’s done often enough these days that it’s no shocker. (GM bacteria are a major source of insulin. Ask your local diabetic.) The issue is that they are growing the hybrid outdoors. Even growing the stuff in some sort of protected area would be dangerous enough, although possibly justifiable if the benefits were great enough and the safegaurds sufficient, but this is just unconscionable. After all, there is already a bad track record on the unintended spread of GM crops. Leaving aside the argument in favor of biodiversity — which is a relatively subtle one — there is no information on the long-term effects of any particular GM species. For all we know, eating anti-diarrhea rice for ten years causes you to develop colon cancer. Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 16 2006 22:21 utc | 36 @TTGVWYCI Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 16 2006 22:55 utc | 37 The diplomacy appropriate to denuclearization is comparable to the containment policy that helped win the Cold War: Posted by: jj | May 17 2006 1:50 utc | 38 @jj: So, in other words, because proponents of GM foods are pushing them by unfair means, we should overreact against them? GM stuff is dangerous — but the danger is exclusively from GM stuff being widespread in some fashion. If you could somehow magically wave a wand and guarantee that GM crops would not mingle with traditional crops, that would solve half the problem right there. The other half, of course, is that biodiversity suffers if too many farmers grow the same strain of a crop, as GM companies try to push farmers to do. But that could theoretically be countered, if the crops didn’t cross-pollinate, by a concerted movement to avoid growing or purchasing the stuff. If they keep letting these crops “escape” like this, though, there won’t be any choice even possible. Like it or not, corn is now a GM crop in America. Rice may be, too, soon, thanks to these bozos. By the way: it took no time for me to track down the name of the professor who did the potato study: Pusztai. Remember, “genetic mutilation” is really a propaganda term. If you are looking for serious data, you need to search with either “GM” or “genetically modified”. Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 17 2006 3:22 utc | 39 Truth, you are attacking me for something I wasn’t even discussing. I was merely pointing out that we know virtually nothing about the risks ‘cuz the Industry is doing its best to suppress & otherwise retard research. They can’t claim it withstands scientific scrutiny while suppressing such scrutiny, nor should anyone trust anything brough to market in such a state. Posted by: jj | May 17 2006 4:50 utc | 40 US spells out plan to bomb Iran
@jj: To me genetic modification rightly pertains to any modification that could conceivably occur in nature. When you move beyond those bounds – as in mixing fish genes in tomatoes, etc. etc., you are mutilating the genetic makeup of that organism. Actually, I’ve been pondering that very point, recently. You are presupposing that what humans do is somehow “outside” nature, that humans are, in some way related to physics, “special”. I disagree. Everything that actually happens is natural, unless you believe in something outside nature. I don’t. And I suggest that even if you do, you don’t bother basing your arguments on it, because there are perfectly good arguments that don’t require it. Somebody or other said that a chemistry professor is an atom’s way of thinking about atoms. Well, in that same vein, human beings are nature’s way of making certain otherwise unlikely things happen. From a moral perspective (which generally means a human perspective of one type or another), mother nature is a bit of a sociopath; maybe right now she is rubbing her hands together and saying “at long last, a fish-tomato hybrid; I’ve been waiting for eons but the stupid fish wouldn’t get out of the water and mate with the dratted tomatoes, and even if they did, that !@#$%^& fish sperm just can’t manage to bind with the tomato genes. Finally.” Then she goes and pulls the wings off a few flies, just for fun. Yes, human processes could end up killing most higher lifeforms on the planet, but ordinary “natural” processes could do that, too, such as a supervolcano. There’s nothing unnatural about it, just unusual in human experience, and immoral (again, a human description). Furthermore, “unnatural” behavior is normal for humans. Right now, you are reading this message, which is unnatural. Your eyes are not designed for this. If you keep it up in the long term, you will go blind. (Or at least end up with bad eyesight.) To read, you are deliberately misusing parts of your brain which serve much more mundane purposes. (See, for further expansion of this idea, Harold Klawans’ very readable book strange behavior: Tales of Evolutionary Neurology.) Modifying the environment is “natural” behavior for humans. Every culture which has entered a previously uninhabited area has altered it. Including the cultures that lefties tend to idolize as being in tune with nature. (The native americans, for example, entered the americas just before the extinction of many large preditors and the creation of a new desert. Those could be a series of coincidences — and then again, Bush could be right about global warming. Realistically, though…) Ecological change is natural for humans. (And not just humans; we’re just the only species to get away with it in the long term — the oxygen-based atmosphere on Earth is the result of a species of single-celled organisms called stromatolites which created all the oxygen and then went nearly extinct because of the sudden development of oxygen-breathing species that ate stromatolites. Now they only survive in a few isolated regions.) So: if modifying the environment is “natural”, why shouldn’t we do it? Quite simple: predicting the results of our actions is “natural” for humans, and so is a desire to keep the species going. I won’t continue the argument — I tried, and then realized it’s been done many times before, and I’m sure you’ve read it already. Similarly, if we’re going to protest GM crops, the reason should not be because they are “unnatural” but because they are dangerous to humanity. Dangerous on a number of levels, too: they can be dangerous directly by being poisonous (as with the GM potatoes, or even just by being a carcinogen in the long term), or they can be an incitement to famine through a loss of diversity, or they can have unforeseen consequences to the environment beyond simple crops. (What happens if some new “escaped” GM hybrid leaves a chemical in the soil that prevents nitrogen-fixing bacteria from ever growing in it again? Oops!) Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 17 2006 6:54 utc | 42 Here is a very interesting EMail exchange between Joe Galloway retiring military affairs correspondent at Knight-Ridder and Larry DiRita, SecDef Rumsfeld’s press aide, with a foreword by Barry McCaffery: Posted by: Village Idiot | May 17 2006 9:45 utc | 43 Here is a link to an HTML version of the Joe Galloway / DiRita exchange.
And this is the Galloway commentary that the letter exchange is about:
that article b linked to on the contingency plans for attacking iran states that the main plan is to use b-2’s from afb’s in missouri, guam & diego garcia. news on the whiteman afb site shows that more than 200 airmen from there have been deployed to andersen afb on guam, where b-2’s are replacing the b-1b lancers “as part of the continuous bomber rotation.” Posted by: b real | May 17 2006 15:23 utc | 46 could the row over deploying 6000 weekend warriors to the mexican border serve to defelct attention from more pressing troop manuevers? Posted by: b real | May 17 2006 15:24 utc | 47 Basically, the 6000 Nat’l Guard. deal provides cover for getting the all impt. more mexicans into am. program thru. It may happen once then be forgotten. Congress voted $$ to put 10,000 more border patrol guys down there – last yr. I think – and Bu$h refused it. Clearly it’s not serious. Any enforcement provisions are always forgotten. There may be some hope it’ll be an inducement for more from affected states to join Nat’l Guard so they can be shipped over to latest Slaughter Zone. Posted by: jj | May 17 2006 19:16 utc | 49 TTGVWYCI,
You are attacking semantics. The sentence “could conceivably occur in nature”, is though semantically ambigious very clear in its contents. That which could occur without hightech gadetry. And genetic mutilation is from my point of view a very appropriate term. Posted by: a swedish kind of death | May 17 2006 19:57 utc | 50 Exclusive to Transition Culture. Fritjof Capra on Relocalisation Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 17 2006 23:59 utc | 51 Watch out for the dinosaurs, SKOD. Posted by: Village Idiot | May 18 2006 0:08 utc | 52 via TPM: USNews
A few more stories that remain substantially “under the radar”: Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | May 18 2006 7:21 utc | 55 Wonder if they will run this one on Animal Planet as an antro-documentary: Posted by: Village Idiot | May 18 2006 13:01 utc | 56 Just as the Hayden Hearings for DCI Post cranks up… Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 18 2006 14:24 utc | 57 Sorry for the typo’s doing three things at one again… Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 18 2006 14:57 utc | 58 askod, jj, TTGVWYCI Posted by: gmac | May 18 2006 16:54 utc | 59 Unfortunately, “The Long War” is now a regular part of jargon as they seem to all be using it. Posted by: jj | May 18 2006 17:30 utc | 60 U.S. to use lasers on drivers in Iraq
serious about preventing “accidental” shootings or iraqis? get the fuck out of iraq… Posted by: b real | May 18 2006 18:14 utc | 61 Unfortunately, “The Long War” is now a regular part of jargon as they seem to all be using it. Posted by: Groucho | May 18 2006 18:36 utc | 62 @jj: Actually, there ARE spontaneous nuclear reactors, although not bombs, on Earth. Ever heard of Okio Park? And, in so far as any other species we know of has consciousness, they DO put things together in ways they aren’t found in nature, to the best of their ability. That’s why you no longer hear the definition of humanity as the only species that uses tools. They don’t have the ability to synthesize completely new materials like we do, but that proves nothing. We have no data on what other conscious species would “think” because we know of no other sapient species. Your questions on this subject are meaningless; it’s like asking someone to provide an example of another universe where pi has a different value — there isn’t even any proof that the question COULD have a valid answer. Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 19 2006 1:00 utc | 63 Whoops — that’s “Oklo”, not “Okio”. Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 19 2006 1:01 utc | 64 truth- you are misattributing gmac’s post to jj Posted by: b real | May 19 2006 3:56 utc | 65 benjamin, from one of the early versions of ‘reproducible art’ essay:
just curious. where does the 1st & 2nd nature stuff come from? Posted by: slothrop | May 19 2006 4:06 utc | 66 slothrop- at least as far back as cicero – alteram naturam – though the differentiation has been used frequently in ecological & anarchist mvmts, others as well, i’d imagine Posted by: b real | May 19 2006 4:34 utc | 67 @b real: Whoops! You’re right! (Sorry jj, if you care one way or the other! I scrolled back up to find the comment to which I was replying and hit your signature at about the right height.) I don’t buy your arguments. Humans are not alienated from “first nature”. Like other species, they simply prefer some things to others, but have devised ways to avoid the things they don’t like. Wild animals won’t go out in a storm, or the cold, unless they have a compelling reason to do so. Human beings, have the same preferences, we’ve just learned how to create areas that are arbitrarily comfortable. The fact that we tend to seek places with nearby foliage and water — compare some real estate prices — suggests this. Furthermore, you are making the common mistaken assumption that living things get “better” as they evolve. To you, the idea that a species could evolve which was destructive is “a joke”. Well, why not? You can develop cancer without exposure to “second nature” (in fact, even an organically grown vegetable eaten raw is very slightly carcinogenic, because it contains carbon 14 which is radioactive) so why do you doubt that “first nature” can produce a species which is hazardous to the other species by default? The only difference between a human society and, say, the control structure of a beehive (aside from scale, anyway, and the fact that bees make honey) is individual intelligence, and most of the destructive behavior you mention comes about as a result of people following instinct — feed yourself, stay warm, and reproduce in the easiest way possible. Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 19 2006 4:40 utc | 68 Thanks, truth 🙂 Posted by: jj | May 19 2006 4:59 utc | 69 @jj: Um, that’s what I was saying. Read it again. Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 19 2006 5:18 utc | 70 Yes there are naturally occuring nuclear reactions. I quite plainly typed explosions. There is a difference. Posted by: gmac | May 19 2006 11:32 utc | 71 @truth Posted by: b real | May 19 2006 15:38 utc | 72 |
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