Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
May 4, 2006
Powerplay

‘anna missed’ pointed to a foreign policy piece sociology professor Jonathan Cutler  published on Znet: Beyond Incompetence: Washington’s War in Iraq. It deserves some discussion, so here are the main points.

The neocons, Cutler argues, are not incompetent, but are persuing their own version of Realpolitik. He explains this by exploring the split within the imperialist camps of the rightwing policy establishment.

One group, the "Right-Arabists", were against attacking Iraq because they feared a rise of Shia Islam in Iraq. This would lead to intimate cooperation between Iraq and Iran and could in future stretch into the oil rich Shia east of Saudi Arabia. Bush sr., Snowcroft, Baker and Powell are arguing that position and therefor did not act to topple Saddam after the first Gulf war. They prefered and still want a united Iraq to balance Shia Iran domination in the Gulf. Their practise is "dual containment" of Iraq as well as Iran.

The other group are the "Right-Zionists". As an example Cutler cites David Wurmser’s 1999 neocon layout of middle east policy. 

Wurmser argues that by establishing a majority Shia Iraq entity, a split could be engineered between the Khomeini followers who prefer the wilayat al-faqih — the rule of the jurisprudent, and the followers of Sistani, who does not support this concept. With that split established, Shia in Lebanon and elsewhere would follow the Najaf Sistani camp instead of the ayatollah’s in Quom. This would over time lead to a deminishment of clerical rule in Iran. A policy of "dual rollback" of Iraq and Iran.

Other neocons like Gerecht and Leeden agree. A "periphery" of non-Arab states, Israel, Turkey, Iran and Ethiopia would keep the Arab states in checkmate.

The "Right-Arabists" fear that this plan endangers their longtime ally Saudi Arabia. For the "Right-Zionists’", that is not a bug, but a central feature of their plan.

This split on Saudi Arabia, Cutler explains, started 25 years ago with Reagans support for selling sophisticated weapons to Saudi Arabia. This was critizised by ur-neocon and zionist Norman Podhoretz who feared it would lessen support for Israel.

While the "Arabists" supported Iraq (and thereby Saudi Arabia) during its war with Iran, neocon Leeden argued that Iraq and not Iran posed a threat against Israel and had therefor be supported.

The "Arabists" and oil money, favor Saudi Arabia as
proxy-state for the U.S. empire in the Middle East. They see Israel,
which the "Zionist" favor as the sole U.S. proxy, as a strategic
burdon.

Says Cutler:

In many respects, Right Zionist war plans for Iraq represents an audacious attempt to reverse the pro-Saudi tilt in US policy that developed in the aftermath of the Iranian revolution and deepened with the movement of US forces onto Saudi soil following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Make no mistake: the US invaded Iraq, but it went to war with the Saudis. The Iraqi political tilt toward Iran is not an accident — the unintended consequence of bumbling naiveté — so much as the heart of a future geo-strategic alliance with Iranian Shiites, if not the incumbent clerical regime.

Cutler closes with warning the anti-imperial left to laud the "Right Arabists" in their fight against the "Zionist-Right". The overall aim of both camps is continued direct U.S. imperial influence in the Middle East.

His view explains many of the seemingly irrational neocon plans,
especially the desire to split Iraq into three entities and their
stance on de-baathification.

In his blog he expands his thesis a bit to the democrat camp, where Biden and Gilb as "Dem Zionists" are now argueing for this split just while in the republican realm the "Right Arabists" are back gaining the upper hand.

As the neocon view of strengthening the "peripherie" demands an Israel friendly powerful Iran, but it requires regime change in Teheran. For "Right Arabists", an economical  powerful and influential Iran may be seen as a danger to Saudi Arabia.

Thereby the powerplay Cutler describes with the main view on Iraq, is to be continued with regards to Iran.

Comments

Cutler asks:
Is it possible to tell the story of the US invasion of Iraq as “perfectly sensible”?
My answer: No, it is not possible.

Posted by: Rick Happ | May 4 2006 14:22 utc | 1

@Rick – if one excepts the premise of imperialism, then it has some logic.
Doesn´t meen it will have good results, it will not. I found it interesting to see a bit of the logic behind the “strategy”.

Posted by: b | May 4 2006 14:58 utc | 2

I wonder if the author of this article just has 20/20 vision ie hindsight.
Didn’t Wolfowitz (or Rummy?) say Iraq had no history of ethnic conflict?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | May 4 2006 15:22 utc | 3

This alleged ‘split’ between ‘Arabists’ and ‘Zionists’ (left or right) is misleading.
In arguing for Israeli primacy in American Middle East foreign policy, the Zionists seek to exclude Arabs from any influence whatsoever – in essence turning the Arabs into a perpetual enemy of the US.
The so-called Arabists, however, do not seek to exclude Israel, but instead advocate a more inclusive policy which favors outreach to BOTH Arabs and Israelis – in essence playing one side off the other and thus maintaining a significant negotiation advantage with both.
And THAT (the Arabist policy) is was realists do – they eschew unblinking ideology in favor of expanding options.
Nixon, the great realist, laid aside his ideological hatred of communism when he went to China because he knew that a diplomatic opening was possible that could expand his options vis a vis the USSR. Can anyone really envison Wolfowitz or Perle ever making a similar pilgrimage to Mecca under any diplomatic circumstances?
A realist does not put all his eggs in one basket, as the Zionists would have us do, because they know it only weakens your hand with both sides. By negating the Arab option in favor of Israeli exclusivity, the Zionists show themselves to be the ideologues they are.

Posted by: Night Owl | May 4 2006 16:03 utc | 4

It’s Not Either / Or
The Israel Lobby
By NORMAN G. FINKELSTEIN

The claim that Israel has become a liability for U.S. “national” interests in the Middle East misses the bigger picture. Sometimes what’s most obvious escapes the eye. Israel is the only stable and secure base for projecting U.S. power in this region. Every other country the U.S. relies on might, for all anyone knows, fall out of U.S. control tomorrow. The U.S.A. discovered this to its horror in 1979, after immense investment in the Shah. On the other hand, Israel was a creation of the West; it’s in every respect culturally, politically, economically in thrall to the West, notably the U.S. This is true not just at the level of a corrupt leadership, as elsewhere in the Middle East but what’s most important at the popular level. Israel’s pro-American orientation exists not just among Israeli elites but also among the whole population. Come what may in Israel, it’s inconceivable that this fundamental orientation will change. Combined with its overwhelming military power, this makes Israel a unique and irreplaceable American asset in the Middle East…
The historical record strongly suggests that neither Jewish neo-conservatives in particular nor mainstream Jewish intellectuals generally have a primary allegiance to Israel in fact, any allegiance to Israel. Mainstream Jewish intellectuals became “pro”-Israel after the June 1967 war when Israel became the U.S.A.’ s strategic asset in the Middle East, i.e., when it was safe and reaped benefits. To credit them with ideological conviction is, in my opinion, very naive. They’re no more committed to Zionism than the neo-conservatives among them were once committed to Trotskyism; their only ism is opportunism. As psychological types, these newly minted Lovers of Zion most resemble the Jewish police in the Warsaw ghetto. “Each day, to save his own skin, every Jewish policeman brought seven sacrificial lives to the extermination altar,” a leader of the Resistance ruefully recalled. “There were policemen who offered their own aged parents, with the excuse that they would die soon anyhow.” Jewish neo-conservatives watch over the U.S. “national” interest, which is the source of their power and privilege, and in the Middle East it happens that this “national” interest largely coincides with Israel’s “national” interest. If ever these interests clashed, who can doubt that, to save their own skins, they’ll do exactly what they’re ordered to do, with gusto?

Posted by: Malooga | May 4 2006 16:19 utc | 5

Another reason the term “Arabist” is misleading:
Iranians (or the Kurds for that matter) are not Arabs.

Posted by: Night Owl | May 4 2006 16:22 utc | 6

Waaay OT, but for crying out loud!
fits all the criteria for pregnancy

She came here with her husband, the couple love each other, she is very slim, blonde and in perfect condition, she fits all the criteria for maternity.

Posted by: Hamburger | May 4 2006 16:25 utc | 7

I agree with CP and Night Owl, esp Owls analysis of realism.
Meanwhile as Cutler says:
Farewell to neo-cons; here come Dem Zionists.
Retaking the Dem party from the corrupt cronyists and enablers like Biden, its “Strategic Class” think tankers like Richard Holbrooke, and Dem Zionists like Liberman, will be a formidable challenge.
David Sirota has the right idea though.

Posted by: Groucho | May 4 2006 16:39 utc | 8

@Night Owl – Another reason the term “Arabist” is misleading: Iranians (or the Kurds for that matter) are not Arabs.
What Cutler calls “Right-Zionists” favour the non-Arab states/communities, i.e. Israel, Turkey, Iran, Kurds,… To contrast this he names the other group “Right-Arabists”. I don´t see why this should be misleading? Sorry if my synopsis didn´t catch that.
Your earlier comment of course is right. Those “Right-Arabists” are “realists” in a Kissinger, war criminal, sense.
But I warn against using that expression at all because it immediately makes anyone opposing them “unrealistic”.

Posted by: b | May 4 2006 16:41 utc | 9

Also like to see the left arabists and left zionists go at it “big time” in the Dem party.
Perhaps just dreaming.

Posted by: Groucho | May 4 2006 16:53 utc | 10

b:
What Cutler calls “Right-Zionists” favour the non-Arab states/communities, i.e. Israel, Turkey, Iran, Kurds,… To contrast this he names the other group “Right-Arabists”. I don´t see why this should be misleading?
Well if you put it that way. Maybe Cutler should call them: Zionists PLUS? 😉
I’m also not quite sure the Zionists truly ‘favor’ the Iranians, nor do I think his characterization should imply that Arabists have no use for non-Arabs – as much as I’m sure Cutler wishes that were the case.
Overall, perhaps a more accurate choice of terms is “Zionist-centric” and “Arab-centric”. Although even using these, I believe my point stands about the Zionist-centrics seeking to completely exclude Arabs from the table. There is no corrolary on the Arab-centric side vis a vis the Israelis.
Your earlier comment of course is right. Those “Right-Arabists” are “realists” in a Kissinger, war criminal, sense.
But warn against using that expression at all because it immediately makes anyone opposing them “unrealistic”.

I’m just opposing Cutler’s labeling of Zionists as ‘realists’ in the classic poli sci sense. It’s a term of art he is seriously abusing.
Also, if anything is indeed proven by the Iraq War, its that the neo-cons (whom he calls Zionists) have been anything BUT realistic.

Posted by: Night Owl | May 4 2006 17:11 utc | 11

Powerplay? Suppose good ole American Ingenuity made the Oil Wars w/their War on Terra Fig Leaf entirely optional? No more wars in ME, oil back down to $10-30/barrel ‘cuz there wasn’t much demand…Could happen now
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This situation dramatically redefines just what sort of Power Crisis

Posted by: jj | May 4 2006 17:16 utc | 12

I’m just opposing Cutler’s labeling of Zionists as ‘realists’ in the classic poli sci sense. It’s a term of art he is seriously abusing.
You must have misunderstood Cutler. The “realist” in his piece are the “Right-Arabist”, not the “Zionists”.

One can get quick confirmation of Chomsky’s characterization of this “ultimate nightmare” scenario from the key “realists” of Republican foreign policy establishment — folks like Bush Sr., former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft, …

Now I admit I don´t know the ‘classic poli sci sense’ of ‘realist’ – at least not US wise.
If I get this all wrong, please help me to understand this.

Posted by: b | May 4 2006 17:25 utc | 13

Realism in international relations

The term realism or political realism collects a wide variety of theories and modes of thought about International Relations that have in common that the motivation of states is in the first place the strive for (mostly) military and economic power or security, rather than ideals or ethics. This term is mostly used as a synonym for power politics.

Good Article. Traces the history of realism from Sun Tzu, to Thucydides, through Machiavelli, Hobbes and Bismark, to the more recent Kennan. Doesn’t mention Kissenger for some strange reason, as he, to my mind, was the quintessential realist of our times. (Later, he, along with Brzezinski and Scowcroft are referred to as “Modern realist statesmen.” That’s as nice a euphemism for genocidal murderer as I have ever heard.) Ends with Zacaria, and our good friends, Walt and Mearsheimer.
In our conceptions here, we may oppose realism with Wilsonian idealism on the left, and naked imperialism on the right.
Right and wrong,
Right and left,
neo-liberal and neo-conservative,
“Right-Zionists” and “Right-Arabists,”
Orientalists and Occidentalists,
Sinologists and Kremlinologists,
realists and idealists,
Democrats and Republicans,
donkeys and elephants,
all are united
firmly behind the belief,
the cult and the credo,
that what we say
is right for you,
and that as we say,
so shall you do.
And the only exception,
that we ask of y’all,
is that you believe in your heart,
that WE are exceptional.

Posted by: Malooga | May 4 2006 18:18 utc | 14

You must have misunderstood Cutler. The “realist” in his piece are the “Right-Arabist”, not the “Zionists”.
I’m not sure you are seeing what Cutler’s driving at. While he does indeed say that the Arabists are Realists, his main point is that the Zionists, or at least some anyway, are ALSO Realists.
Cutler’s Chomsky quote you cite is just a set up for his own thesis – which he buries halfway down the article.

The crucial point, however, is that some key neo-conservatives are as committed to cold-hearted Machiavellian Realpolitik as any so-called “realist.” The battle dividing the Bush administration in Iraq is between two factions of Realpolitik strategists.

Cutler is responding to allegations that the neo-cons are dreamers (“Boy Scouts” to use his pejorative) and that what is really needed is a return to RealPolitik which promotes a more stable “balance of power” relationship among all sides.
Basically Cutler is claiming that (some) Zionists are Realists just like their Arabist counterparts, but that its simply a different TYPE of Realism. He argues that by including non-Arab states in the Zionist power framework, a realist-like balance of power can be maintained.
What Cutler’s analysis misses is any mention of inclusion of Arab interests in the thinking of the Zionists. That is where he falters, because one can not be ideologically committed to blind, perpetual condemnation and diplomatic isolation of one’s main adversary and still be considered a realist.
Again, I go back to Nixon. As strident an anti-communist as he was, Nixon still saw the need for constructive relations with his adversaries – and not just China, but the Soviets as well. Remember that Nixon signed the first nuclear arms limitation treaty (SALT I) in 1969. He also intiated the policy of D’etente.
Have you ever heard any of the neocons seriously argue for d’etent with the Arabs?
It is assumed that the Arabist Realists at least acknowledge the utility of Israel, no matter how much of a “strategic burden” it may sometimes seem to them.
But this ‘burden’ stems from the fact that the Zionists are demanding exclusivity at the expense of other diplomatic options. Were the Zionists (of Culter’s definition) not so hell-bent on containing the Arabs (as opposed the the other Islamic nationalities in the region) in a permanent state of isolation, I doubt the Arabists (again his definition) would consider the Israelis quite so constraining.
The original RealPolitik movement was a reaction to the straightjacket of ultra-rabid anti-Communism which advocated strict isolation and precluded any diplomacy no matter how constructive or beneficial. In a way, the Zionists are analogous to this “pre-Realist” view, because the idea of constructive engaement with their main adversary is wholly anathema to their world view.

Posted by: Night Owl | May 4 2006 18:48 utc | 15

@Night Owl – thanks – now I got it (I think)

Posted by: b | May 4 2006 19:03 utc | 16

b,
No, thank YOU. Great questions that really helped me flush this out.

Posted by: Night Owl | May 4 2006 19:14 utc | 17

@jj:

Dunno. If true, that story would be a sorta-good sign (because it would mean that practical hydrogen is just about here, and in a form which can be used by existing equipment, even if the Bush admin is trying to stop it) but I am skeptical. Any “magic bullet” solution to energy woes is suspicious, whether it’s a mysterious design for a hyper-efficient engine or a new theory that claims to displace quantum physics. (Incidentally: any time you see a theory which claims to displace quantum physics, look for an explanation somewhere which explains why the theory is identical to quantum theory under most experimental circumstances. If you don’t see one, then you can safely ignore the new theory. Quantum theory is built on experiment, so any new theory has to “reduce” to quantum theory most of the time. If it doesn’t do this, then you can tell someone is trying to scam you.)

To move slightly more off-topic: there are a lot of leftist attacks on hydrogen, because it isn’t a fuel source and requires that energy come from somewhere else. (“There are no hydrogen mines” I remember someone saying on MoA at some point.) These people are missing the point. Hydrogen is not an energy source, it’s an energy storage mechanism, and one which is much more efficient than just about anything else we’ve found. Those solar-powered things you see? They require batteries. Most battery technologies involve exotic chemicals which cause a lot of pollution to manufacture, and then wear out quickly and are hazardous to dispose of. Hydrogen, on the other hand, has the potential to be, if not actually “clean”, then so much closer than all other existing technologies that the switch would be a big help.

Also, of course, if you can convert everything to hydrogen power, you gain a couple of important benefits: (1) the actual energy source used to get the hydrogen becomes interchangeable — anything that can make electricity can generate hydrogen from water; you can make all cars solar, or wind-powered, and it will make no difference to their performance; say hello to cars that run on locally-generated fuel no matter where you are! (And goodbye to energy wasted in fuel transport, which is pretty hefty for oil.) (2) even when working with fossil fuels, converting to hydrogen as an intermediate step reduces the number of locations where fossil fuels are being consumed, which makes it easier to impose stricter pollution controls, since the usual objection is the impracticality of installing said controls on existing cars.

I may have missed a good past post that said all this, and be preaching to the choir, in which case my apologies.

Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | May 4 2006 19:55 utc | 18

That is where he falters, because one can not be ideologically committed to blind, perpetual condemnation and diplomatic isolation of one’s main adversary and still be considered a realist.
Main adversary, maybe. But remember Kennedy was a Kennan “realist,” and he almost brought us to nuclear annihilation with his lack of constructive engagement with the Soviet Union.
Nixon’s realism wasted not a single iota of thought about the plight of the Cambidians, or Laotians, much less the Vietnamese.
Kissenger is famous for his many heartless quotes about our “interests” as a nation, and what we have to do to persue them.
In other words, Realism is more of a theory about how and why power should be used, rather than a theory about engagement vs. isolationism. And the use of power does presume engagement.
Issues with the Soviet Union directly get more into “World Systems Theory,” which is tangential to realism altogether.
Realism and Idealism were opposing theories for how to engage client states and maintain them within our sphere of influence, against Soviet counter-proposals.
Installing the Shah was a realist act. Using the Peace Corps to “promote Democracy” and gain influence in the states where the Peace Corps serves is an idealist act.
The World Bank and IMF operate under explicit idealist goals (Promoting development to better people’s standard of living), but with an implicit realist agenda (Getting countries in a debt-trap in order to control their resources).
Wilson’s “League of Nations” was idealist. The axis alliance was realist.

Posted by: Malooga | May 4 2006 20:33 utc | 19

I think Cutlers important point here is that the Iraq policy can be explained as a reflection of an internal despute within the foreign policy establishment, regardless of party. The use of these terms “realists” and “zionists” can be used to account for the seeminly contradictory nature of the Iraqi incursion — in that the incursion itself was a major reversal of policy, one that prevented all previous administrations from taking this step. This step was taken only after this administration (bushes) was taken over by a different kind of thinking — the neo-cons, the collection of likeminded folks mostly from the American Enterprise Institute, and unheeded members from previous administrations, that managed to take over bushes foreign policy apparatious. I think its fair for Cutler to make these distinctions, call it what you like, in that some name must come to define the realization of this different approach — that explains what has happened and why. Which sure beats other explanations such as “perpetual war”, “charasmatic chaos”, or even incompetence as to what has so far played out and what we can expect. The architects of this war (largely from the AEI it would seem) fought tooth and nail against the (traditional realists) opposition (in both parties) to forward a very intentional set of methods and objectives, that need to be understood as intentions, and not simply as mistakes or naive bungling — and in a way that comprehends the full reponsibility of those who initiated it. The policy, say, of de-Baathification was’nt some whim, but a carefully thought out policy directive aimed at creating a definite set of consequences relative to the whole policy initiative — and Cutlers overview might be seen as a first step in preventing us from throwing it out, or disappearing it into to the winds of incometence or stupidity.

Posted by: anna missed | May 4 2006 20:42 utc | 20

Main adversary, maybe. But remember Kennedy was a Kennan “realist,” and he almost brought us to nuclear annihilation with his lack of constructive engagement with the Soviet Union.
In the rabid anti-communist era of the ’50s and early ’60’s, Kennedy was considered a realist simply because his policies left at least the tiniest bit daylight for discussion – as opposed the McCartyites who, long after Joe imploded, still continued to weild significant influence over American Foreign Policy.
But Kennedy’s foreign policy was wholly confronational prior to the Cuban missle crisis, and it was only after the close call scared the bejeezus out of everyone that true constructive engagement became an accepted policy objective.
Think about it, it was only after the crisis had passed that a permanent hotline to Moscow was installed. How constructive could Kennedy’s foreign policy really have been before that?

Posted by: Night Owl | May 4 2006 21:34 utc | 21

I’m not quite sure how useful Cutler’s analysis is though. Have seen better and simpler.
Certainly, academic realists, such as John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, would have trouble placing the neocons in the realist camp.One of the barkeeps former boon companions, a prominent Right Arabist, consistently refers to the neocons, as “the Jacobins and their familiars”. Nobody, on the realist side,in short, has any time at all for these people.
It seems to me like Cutler is trying a little too hard to get around the issue of gross incompetence. Sure, the Jacobins and their familars have a stable of fire-breathing idealogues. But their thought is not grounded in “reality”, at least regarding what military power and diplomacy can be “realistically” expected to achieve.
In the political wilderness of the power minor league for 25 years, the Neocon Cubs take the field in 2001, and manage to score 3 own goals or more in the first half(channeling Debs here). Wreck the pitch pretty well too, while they’re about it.
Simplest explanations are often the best.

Posted by: Groucho | May 4 2006 22:50 utc | 22

Thanks for the superb debate. I’m particularly grateful for the discussion of the “realist” tradition in political theory. My article was a response to several authors (Chomsky, Dreyfuss, etc.) but one was surely John Mearsheimer, not for the Israeli Lobby article but for a 2005 article “Hans Morgenthau and the Iraq war: realism versus neo-conservatism.” I was thinking of his distinction between realist emphasis on “balancing” and idealist emphasis on “bandwagoning.”
One additional note, for now: I am not interested in covering for massive incompetence. Indeed, I think the Bush administration makes it very difficult to make my argument because the level of incompetence is overwhelming. I simply argue that there is also something MORE than incompetence. I also think it is somewhat risky to adopt Chomsky’s idea that foreign policy is “perfectly sensible” unless you always keep in mind that “sensible” is WITHIN the context of an imperialist framework.
On that basis, I have real questions about how often Right Zionists have actually scored own goals. Chief question in this column: has Sistani disappointed??
Finally, I want to certainly acknowledge that MY vision is only clear (if that) in hindsight. What I find more interesting, however, is that Right Zionist strategy (especially, but not exclusively Wurmser’s) is all there well in advance. Wasn’t just audibles…
Thanks again for all the fab engagement. Thanks especially to “Anna Missed” for the early interest and kind words.

Posted by: Cutler | May 4 2006 23:40 utc | 23

Return to Hot Chicken, Moby Octopad
Protesters repeatedly interrupted Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld during a speech Thursday and one man, a former CIA analyst, accused him of lying about Iraq prewar intelligence in an unusually vociferous display of anti-war sentiment.
“Why did you lie to get us into a war that caused these kind of casualties and was not necessary?” asked Ray McGovern, the former analyst, during a question-and-answer session.

Rummy didn’t kick McGovern out. but I think it’s pretty amazing that McGovern is going to Rummy appearances and speaking out.
Juan Cole called for students to get out in the streets to protest the war. Not too likely know since it’s the end of the year and they’ll scatter.

Posted by: fauxreal | May 5 2006 1:12 utc | 24

@Night Owl: agreed.
Thanks, prof C and anna missed.

Posted by: Malooga | May 5 2006 1:15 utc | 25

Professor:
Welcome! We are in dire need of new voices, and you ought to see what we do to people we really don’t agree with.
I doubt we’ll ever know how this fiasco came about totally.
And I was not suggesting you were attempting to “cover up” this farce. Was merely suggesting that you might be trying to put a Tiffany lampshade on this elephant in the room, that we all clearly see. Sort of like Aquinas might have done, in another instance and in another time. Too much intellectualization and explanation. And I doubt we’ll ever know the full story.
Ali Al-Sistani:
Rumeniegge, Keegan class Stryker. Scored at least twice
in the first half .Caught the Cub defenders and the hapless goal keeper Bremer all wrong-footed, and turned them inside out.
Question is:
Can Sistani show us some new moves in the second half? Does he have a bicycle kick? Can he FLIP?
I think the (intellectual) owner of the Cubs, who I personnaly believe to be one Michael Ledeen, ought to think about that one.

Posted by: Groucho | May 5 2006 1:28 utc | 26

crooks and liars has mcgovern’s exchange w/ rumsfled here (transcript here)

Posted by: b real | May 5 2006 2:58 utc | 27

Thanks again for all the fab engagement.
Thank You Professor.
Rereading my comments, I think I was not quite as generous to you as I should have been. It’s just that I tend to get worked up about neocons – I trust you understand.
Anyway, yours is a fine article that certainly makes many valuable and thought provoking points.
Thanks for that, and especially for your post.

Posted by: Night Owl | May 5 2006 3:24 utc | 28

I will not pretend to know what was realism or idealism in regards to Iraq. I am sure, however, that if the neocons could go back in time, they would reconsider their initial position of war. Of course, once the can of worms is opened, one would think realism would rule the day. It hasn’t. In fact, the next phase, Iran, is pressing – its as if the U.S. has painted itself into a corner with the Iranian influence now in Iraq (None of this should be put into religious tones, it is political on a global scale.) The pressure by Israel on U.S. policy must be enornormous at this point in time.

Posted by: Rick Happ | May 5 2006 4:03 utc | 29

enornormous? oh well makes the point I guess…

Posted by: Rick Happ | May 5 2006 4:07 utc | 30

@Bernhard:
Professor Cutler referenced an article in his post by John J Mearsheimer on Realism V. Neoconservatism.
This would be a very good subject for a post. I link to it
HERE
Best thing I’ve seen written on the subject in three years.

Posted by: Groucho | May 5 2006 5:04 utc | 31

The Gilbert Achcar link also referenced by Cutler is also worth a look, posted in (ancient history) 2004. A short reiteration:
History will probably record this venture as one of the most important blunders ever committed by an administration abroad from the standpoint of U.S. imperial interests. However, by one of those ironies that History is full of, the “crackpot idealism” provided by the likes of Kanan Makiya has opened the way for the Iraqi people to seize control of their own destinies. Much more effectively so, than what could have been the case had the Bush administration acted from a craftily Machiavellian perspective and managed to get hold of Iraq through an arrangement with the Iraqi army and other apparatuses of the Baathist state.
The clumsy overthrow of Saddam Hussein by the U.S. could thus become truly the first step toward this “democratization” of the Middle East that the neocons have advocated, though in a way deeply contrary to what they hoped. That could come only at the expense of U.S. domination of the region, starting with the withdrawal of all U.S. troops. It would be then, most probably, to the benefit of Islamic fundamentalist forces, somewhat on the Iranian pattern. The “democracy paradox” would then have prevailed again over the wild dreams of “crackpot idealism.” And Washington would have acted one more time as the sorcerer’s apprentice, unleashing forces it cannot master and which backfire on it.
…………………………..
A good observation well ahead of current developments, that beg the good professors (thanks for droping by) question about has Sistani dissapointed? First, the first paragraph linked above could be seen to confirm a suspicion that has been on my mind lately — that the democratic process that the US has put into motion in Iraq has slipped out of their control. All of the recent diplomatic gymnastics on the part of ambassador Kililazad to break up the UIA’s grip on power (under the guise of a “unity government”) have only resulted in one DAWA party chief being replaced by another DAWA chief — who today has insisted that the Interior Ministry will remain under Shiite control, and with Muqtada al-Sadr lobbying very hard for control not only of the Transportation and Health Ministries but now control of three more ministries. So, in one sense, so far, Sistani has indeed delivered what the likes of David Wormser thought would be a good idea — a Shiite dominated government in Iraq. Now whether that Shiite government legitimated by Najaf will be a threat to the Mullas in Qom and sow spring flowers across the middle east is a bet even a Wormser is’nt willing to take, except the money is already on the table, and the cards delt.

Posted by: anna missed | May 5 2006 9:12 utc | 32

@anna that the democratic process that the US has put into motion in Iraq has slipped out of their control
That is a factless accusation of the US. Sistani put the democratic porcess into motion against Cheney’s and Bremer’s will.

Posted by: b | May 5 2006 9:39 utc | 33

I sometimes think that in the long run, and it is one, the attacks into the middle east (there have been many) may result in civilization being brought to — or spawned from — those neighorhoods.
Yet as said above the results may not be the ones expected by the powerful who instigated them.
The bastards said they want democracy, well look out here it comes. Democracy means “from the people” according to my sources.

Posted by: jonku | May 5 2006 10:20 utc | 34

Included in the kits (and also available separately) is our solar powered Hydrogen Generator that manufactures the Hydrogen fuel for your vehicle at virtually zero cost.
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Since there are no major changes made to your engine, you can still run your vehicle on Gasoline at any time.

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Posted by: mistah charley | May 5 2006 15:16 utc | 35

agreed mistah charley,
that whole site had the feel of an FBI honeypot. I got out of there real quick when I saw what they had to offer in the way of uranium and other nasty stuff.

Posted by: Anonymous | May 5 2006 17:17 utc | 36

b,
Sholuld have made it more clear — the democratic process has slipped out of >> U.S. << control. I agree Sistani forced their hand on elections, and now that they have realized this level of victory the U.S. would appear to have gotten cold feet with getting what they wished for. The UIA is simply plowing forward with their mandate, either out manuvering Khalilazad or ignoring him. There is though the lingering question of whether the UIA will actually be able to handle the country beyond their green zone debates. Interestingly, Muqtada's group is actually out in the street delivering the goods, and his star continues to rise.

Posted by: anna missed | May 5 2006 18:23 utc | 37

Madeline Albreight weighs in:
Nice To Hear From A Real Foreign Policy Heavyweight

Posted by: Groucho | May 8 2006 4:46 utc | 38

Ahhh, yes Madeleine “We Think the Price Is Worth It” Albright. Heavyweight, childkiller.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | May 8 2006 5:27 utc | 39

I wanted to technicolour yawn when I saw Jon Stewart suckling her toes, yet again, the other night

Posted by: gmac | May 8 2006 5:42 utc | 40