Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 18, 2006
WB: The Flight Forward, Part 2

Billmon:

[T]here is real risk that key players in the crisis — Iranian as well as American — are fundamentally misreading the situation. They may not understand that their counterparts on the other side are perfectly willing to escalate, because they actually want war, or at least are pulled in that direction by their own political and/or strategic dilemmas.

However, there is an even more terrible risk here, which is that both sides in this crisis may want a war, although for different reasons. And when both parties to a confrontation like this one want a war, they usually get one.

The Flight Forward, Part 2

Comments

If the Iranians want peaceful nukes, or if their plan is to stay inside the NPT until they are close to a weapons “breakout,” then the logical course now is to be patient, suspend enrichment activities, and wait to see if the heat dies down. Taking the “crisis” off the front pages would take the wind out of U.S. diplomatic sails, making it easier for the Iranians to restart operations later.
Remember just some three years ago?
There were requests for inspections, inspections were granted.
Then there were requests to destroy rockets that had a marginal longer range than allowed. Destroying them was granted.
Then there were requests to interview scientists outside the country. Some interviews were granted.
Then there were requests for Saddam to leave the contry ….
Then the bombs started falling.
Could Saddam have done anything to avoid the invasion?
I don´t think for a moment that ANY Iran concession at this time would not be immediately topped by new U.S. demands like inspection of all military sites even when unrelated to nukes (what better way to spy?).
Ahmedinejad and the people behind him are smart enough to have understood that. Sticking to a confrontational strategy as long as the U.S. does is a must. Giving in was tried already (the two years enrichment moratorium and granting of additional inspections) and did resultz in absolutly nothing.

Posted by: b | Apr 18 2006 6:00 utc | 1

I agree with b, that Iran sees confrontation as inevitable and go further to say that they have calculated it is to their advantage to have it sooner rather than later; thus the provocations. Perhaps they feel the US is at its weakest and earlier confrontation will unite the population and consolidate gov’t power. Not saying this is a correct calculation…

Posted by: ww | Apr 18 2006 6:33 utc | 2

I hadn’t thought of the possibility that b raised, but it makes perfect sense: nothing that Iran can do will satisfy the US, since what the US wants is regime change. Then there is the oil – Rank Order – Oil – exports – Iran ranks #6 in oil exports, #5 in oil production.
Iran has some sophisticated Russian anti-aircraft defenses.
The Iranians may also want to settle this very soon because they think the US army in Iraq is a hostage.
If the Iranians actually do have that unstoppable, fast Russian-style torpedo, that could sink many US navy ships.

Posted by: Owl | Apr 18 2006 7:26 utc | 3

The Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator
Union of Concerned Scientists. it’s nice to know the facts …

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 18 2006 7:45 utc | 4

A very thoughtful post by Billmon.
Ahmadhinejad is highly confrontational because he has everything to lose by appeasement, both to his enemies at home and abroad. He probably feels he has a better hand than Cheney, and probably has assurances from China and Russia that they will not permit a shooting war. He’s in the catbird seat.
There is no win in this Iran war for America. We cannot invade, cannot occupy, cannot do anything but blow up their military and infrastructure.
Viewed as a 20-year guerilla war, instead of a three week bombing campaign — Iran wins it hands down.
Iran can do all sorts of things to us, immediately and for years and years to come. And so can all the other nations of the world, who will make it a point to do just that, if we further disrupt Middle Eastern oil.
The SCO membership granted Iran today frames this impasse beautifully, as a peaceful regional partnership between economic giants. SCO is about mutual cooperation and economic protection. That can easily stretch to fit foreign adventurers mucking with one of their members. Just imagine if China invaded Mexico or Canada — America would fight.
My secret suspicion is that Russia will move to protect their several hundred technical people, who are working within the nuclear and oil industries in Iran. They’ll add to them. They’ll wait until the last minute, when Bush has to let them know the bombing is a go, and then they will fly a couple of planeloads of Russian military techs and MP’s and typists and plumbers to each of the major nuclear sites, and tell George he is risking instant world war if any bombs fall on Russian nationals doing peaceful civilian construction.
It would not surprise me if the Russians haven’t let Bush know that this is what will happen if he tries to go beyond rattling his wooden sword.
During the Kosovo war, the Russians did this very thing, moving an armored brigade of peacekeepers in the dead of night to a Serbian airport. They then greeted the Americans when they arrived at dawn, saying, “Welcome to our airport!”
When Cheney and his Amazing Meat Puppet back down from this Iran invasion, it will be the end of the American Empire.
If Cheney and his toy President actually invade Iran, that will also mark the end of the American Empire.
This is the high water mark, right about here.

Posted by: Antifa | Apr 18 2006 8:31 utc | 5

There’s another way of looking at the issue. It strikes me that the Iranians know that the current Bush administration’s “policy”, such as it is, is regime change; the Iranian objective ( and there’s plenty of evidence that they’ve been pursuing this ), is to get the US to the negotiating table for bilateral talks to settle the various issues that have been festering for decades. It’s very clear that talking directly to the Iranians is the only option that the Bush administration is not prepared to put on the table ( as they know that they’ll be offered a deal which would be politically impossible to refuse ).
I think the Iranians have concluded that the only way to accomplish their objective is to keep upping the ante by making it perfectly clear that their civilian power programme is for keeps and that they’re not going to be intimidated. If the US wants to bomb, then bring it on, but don’t tell us afterwards that we didn’t warn you all that there would be severe consequences. The point of the strategy is to get the rest of the world to try to pull the parties apart and get them to talk out their differences. The strategy is working – a number of prominent US political figures – Haas, Luger, Armitage – have said that the Bush administration should be talking to the Iranians; Blair has made it clear that there can be no UK involvement in military action ( there are rumours that he is seeking to meet Ahmadinejad at a neutral venue and has cancelled a trip to Washington ); Merkel has publicly told the admin to get talking etc.
There is certainly a big split in Washington now – just as there are retired generals popping out of the woodwork to call for Rumsfeld’s resignation, a parallel process is happening with calls for a “serious” engagement with Iran.

Posted by: dan | Apr 18 2006 8:44 utc | 6

I’m with b. The Neville Chamberlain approach doesn’t work with America.

Posted by: DM | Apr 18 2006 9:32 utc | 7

@Antifa
When Cheney and his Amazing Meat Puppet back down from this Iran
invasion, it will be the end of the American Empire. If Cheney and his
toy President actually invade Iran, that will also mark the end of the
American Empire.

As some of us know the word ‘coda‘ represents The concluding passage of a movement or composition, but it also can represent the begining of another. Wonder what it will look/sound like? And further, what will histories title for it will be, the Bush Felons’ Swan Song Operetta in d Minor? Where does that leave all the rest of us? Herein, lies the real question.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 18 2006 10:20 utc | 8

This Blood and Treasure post has an alternate explanation of Ahmedinejad’s rhetorical strategy, comparing it to a lead-up to a pub fight:

US to Iran: Are you making nukes?”
Trans: “did you spill my pint?
Ahmedinejad: we’re going to wipe Israel off the map;
Trans: Yes: and I FUCKED YOUR MOTHER.
US: drops hints of nuclear first strike:
Trans: You did spill my fuckin’ pint.
A: Israel will wither and die!
Trans: Every time I fuck your mother she pats me on the head. That’s why I’m so short!

More generally, you can see the point of the approach. It might seed a few doubts. It’s all very well saying we must act because this regime is capable of anything. That’s a fairly well established pretext. It’s different to the dawning realization that the person you’re prodding might actually be a real nutter; someone who’ll suddenly get in fast and close and take a chunk out of your triceps with his teeth. And it disrupts attempts to control the tempo of events, tempting the belligerent to either make a wild swing before he’s properly ready or to act irresolutely.

Posted by: Tom Scudder | Apr 18 2006 10:54 utc | 9

Excellent Tom!
thanks for the link and laugh…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Apr 18 2006 11:12 utc | 10

Last week the Canadian command in Central Asia announced to BBC that their chief goal is the reconstruction of the war-savaged region.
This week the Canadian command announced to BBC that due to continued guerrilla activities, all reconstruction work will be suspended.
Exactly what reconstruction work is that?
Does any half-wit seriously believe the command didn’t know last week, what they were going to announce this week, or that BBC isn’t a tool for reporting same without analysis?
Does any half-wit seriously believe the Afghan Reconstruction Fund for Central Asia, half-gone through 4x-bloated HAL-KBR contracts, and being siphoned off to Iraq and Katrina, will ever be used for reconstruction?
Don’t hold your breath. Sure, they rebuilt the road to Kandahar, and the road to Mozar Sharif. They have to move military equipment on those roads. Sure, the military command would love to rebuild the country and reduce the insurgency.
It’s not up to the military. It’s up to Don Rumsfeld, and his counterpart in Canada, and Cheney’s stock options in HAL-KBR how our tax money pledged to reconstruction will be spent.
It won’t be on reconstruction, it’s for Iran. Just a parked account at World Bank.
It’s a PR charade, and the media sucks it up. $10B of our taxes, lost in a dangling pinata over the HAL-KBR pig-trough.
The Kennedy video archives were on last night, circa 1961. Kennedy was speaking about Viet Nam, how the “new Democratic government of South Viet Nam”, elected with 75% to 80% of the vote, was “being challenged by insurgents, killing militia and police”, 400 I believe he mentioned.
Sound familiar?
This Communist insurgency will be America’s greatest challenge, Kennedy asserted, then followed a decade of war, and our kids dying some 50 a day at its peak. Don Rumsfeld was in on that one too. Last week 47 of our kids died in Iraq, and more if you count how many died over German airspace on their way to hospice.
The media duly reports, occasionally shows a few faces of the deceased, then turns away. Oh G-d, Celebrity Cook Off’s on! It’s American Idol VII! Doesn’t Paula look beautiful? Celebrity Dancing!
For a spoonful of uranium dust, Don Rumsfeld will violate the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty along with our allies and goomba Israel.
A pure re-election play, a Kennedy line in the sand, a Neo drum beat, HAL-KBR smoke signals rising on the hillsides, the Patriots circling their wagons, and the war kicks it up a notch.
Bamm! 2006 Elections!
OK, Cliff, take us out!
Dah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah-dah-dah-de-de-dah.
Imagine aliens on another planet, watching our video feed. Hey, imagine Jesus, rocketing back to Earth in his flying saucer, pissed as hell.

Posted by: Clarence Michaels | Apr 18 2006 12:35 utc | 11

These guys are the worst poker and chess players ever.
Excellant posts, Billmon, you fill in all the blanks. What consumes me personally are all the “leaks” about nuclear strikes and conventional strikes and just strikes in general against Iran. At some point, Iran will be able to poke the stick right back in our eye, fast foward 6-9 months, no bombing campaign; nah, nah, the US never bombed us. At some point the nuts in the Bush administration will feel like they ‘have’ to bomb Iran, just to save face. This is no way to run a world, let alone the world’s only superpower.
Rove, Cheney and Bush are definately ones to be consumed by the ‘bold’ action theory and that things seem to work themselves out. I’ve posted the same thing on dailykos and elsewhere, I firmly believe the Bush administration and as you point out, the Iranians are seriously mis-calculating.
The world survived the great depression, and WWI and WWII, although they were truly horrific events that mankind should never repeat(although that was said of WWI and WWII proved to be worse) so whatever social and economic catastrophe follows a post-Iran air strike the world will go on. A crippled, pain filled world but a planet spinning around the sun none-the-less.
Being the father of two small children all I can think of is how I can shield MY children from the horror that may consume the owrld in the near future.
But when you’ve convinced yourself that they are crazy enough to do it, well then all I’m left with is being consumed with building a post war bunker, stock piling canned food, figure out how to live by bartering, etc…

Posted by: Gasper | Apr 18 2006 13:35 utc | 12

I have finally found some source for the “resaech” announcement the NYT trumpeted Sunday.
Iran says it is developing advanced P-2 centrifuges

“Our centrifuges are P-1 type. P-2, which has quadruple the capacity, now is under the process of research and test in the country,” Ahmadinejad told the students in a speech in Khorasan in northeastern Iran. His comments, made last Wednesday, were subsequently posted on the official presidential Web site.

Bitching difficult to make these things. Such centifuges stand/rotate on a very small “ball” which stands in a hole filled with special lubricant oil. The “ball” has some very fine lines on the surface to allow a specific flow of oil around it. If there is a slight problem in the flow and given the RPM’s of such a machine, the whole thing crashes. Micrometer lines in hard metal balls and you need thousands of them. Each error costs about a complete centrifuge. Unless someone sells them this stuff, that will take some time to learn.

Posted by: b | Apr 18 2006 14:27 utc | 13

Whitehouse.gov

Q Sir, when you talk about Iran, and you talk about how you have diplomatic efforts, you also say all options are on the table. Does that include the possibility of a nuclear strike? Is that something that your administration will plan for?
THE PRESIDENT: All options are on the table.

That is like saying “check” during the first third of a game of chess. Experienced chessplayers will not be threatend by that. The Persians are said to have invented chess.

Posted by: b | Apr 18 2006 15:57 utc | 14

Here’s something simple you can do to help stop the flight toward using a nuclear first strike against Iran. Call your senator or representative and tell the office personnel that you represent an organization called “Off the Table.” Ask that the senator or rep. please answer a simple question:
Will [senator so and so] take a nuclear first strike against Iran off the table?
Any answer other than a yes will be recorded as a no. We need answers by April 28.
Ask them to please call you back and leave their answer to the question. Be sure to tell them that you represent an organization called “Off the Table.”
It’s very easy. I just called my two Washington State senators and my representative, and was surprised at how interested they seemed in this question. I almost got waylaid to the D.C. office by a Cantwell staffer, but told him I was a constituent and wanted to speak to the press liason office for Washington State, and he relented and took the question.
After you get answers from your congresspeople, go to http://www.offthetable.org, and record the answers for the web site.
It’s a way to get senators and representatives on the record now so that down the road, if this genocidal act really does take place, we will have some evidence for the inevitable war crimes trials that will take place.
I am waiting for answers from my reps. I’m pretty sure Jim McDermott will say yes, but I’m not sure what Murray or Cantwell will do.
Thanks for reading this and I hope you can help.

Posted by: Trilby | Apr 18 2006 17:13 utc | 15

This reminds me of Khurschev’s “Ve will bury you” moment at the UN in ~’57…(w/Israel being the proxy state)…when was the last state to so openly & viscerally challenge US.
Iran (and India) being suddenly invited into SCO lays to rest any simplistic notions of the military serving xUS capital, as capital is dismantling the xUS at the speed of light.
Is your job safe? Not if it can be done abroad. The only safe jobs are in domestic services that require a “hands-on” presence, such as barbers, hospital orderlies, and waitresses.

Wholesale and retail trade, waitresses and bartenders account for 46% of the new jobs. Education and health services, administrative and waste services, and financial activities account for another 46%.
This has been the profile of US employment growth for a number of years, along with some construction jobs filled by legal and illegal immigrants. It is the job profile of a third world economy.
From January 2001 to January 2006 the US economy lost 2.9 million manufacturing jobs. The promised replacement jobs—”new economy” high-tech knowledge jobs—have failed to materialize.
High-tech knowledge jobs are also being outsourced abroad. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, US employment of engineers and architects declined by 189,940 between November 2000 and November 2004 (latest data available). Economist Alan Blinder estimates that as many as 56 million American jobs are susceptible to offshore outsourcing. That would be about half of the US work force.

As Morgan Stanley economist Stephen Roach pointed out on April 7, “average hourly compensation of Chinese manufacturing workers is only 3-4% of levels in the US, 10% of the pay rate of Asia’s newly industrialized economies, and 25% of levels in Mexico and Brazil.” Roach also notes that with a rural population of 745 million (about two and one-half times the total US population) and headcount reductions of more than 60 million workers from state-owned enterprises, China will not experience a labor shortage any time soon.
This means that it will be a long time before Chinese wages rise enough to offset the benefits of offshoring. The same can be said about India. Consequently, a large percentage of US jobs is vulnerable to being moved abroad.

So Bu$hCo’s Sounds like the rantings of hollow men. Where is Marisol when you need her? (Annie, beq, do you remember her superb sculptures of wooden men, done in Paris in the 60’s. Unfortunately there are no images online.)
(French capital is following suit. Doubtless the timing was purely coincidental 🙂 Will they hit the streets to demand factory closures cease?

Posted by: jj | Apr 18 2006 18:34 utc | 16

Trilby,
heres something else that might get uni-prez’s attention
how bout a delegation of prominent hill Dems’s swing by the Oval office & promise uni-prez — Take the nuclear strike option against Iran “off the table” immediately and we wo’nt impeach you if we win the hill back come November.
or some variation or where the deal could be cut in private.
and it would also be a win-win for the Dems as its something they can take credit for whether it works or not.
also if it does’nt work, the first line in the article of impeachment would go something like this : We warned the %#%^@#$@# and he just would’nt listen

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Apr 18 2006 19:17 utc | 17

Maybe the plan is to go nukular on Iran, then use the inevitable state-side retaliatory attacks (suicide/car bombs, etc) as a pretext to declare martial law, cancel elections, and set up GW “Baby Doc” Bush as preznent for life.
The murderous cretin always said it would be “easier” with a dictatorship, so long as he’s the dictator.
Yeeeeehaaaa!

Posted by: ran | Apr 18 2006 20:14 utc | 18

Iran has the right, within the NPT, to use nuclear technology for peaceful purposes. And it needs nuclear reactors bad – it eats electricity (as we all do) and burning gas or oil to make it is crazy foolishness. Their hydraulic capacties are very limited, and for all practical purposes exploited already; global warming sees to the rest – less water. Wind farms — well they are giving it a shot.
If they are prevented or hampered in that aim, well the NPT is not worth the paper it is written on, just ignore it. Signing it is already making nice, shows willingness to play by the rules, contrary to Pakistan, India, Israel. If even the rights it confers are selectively attributed, it is obvious that sticking to the letter will only bring trouble (ask Saddam). Referring to it, obeying it, is basically appeasement that leads to weakness and vulnerability to attack.
Second, the NPT lays down one set of rules for some countries – but not for others, either because they disobey with impunity or haven’t signed on (US, India, Israel, etc.) Staying within that scope is easily perceived as a looser’s game. Only those who are willing to trangress attain any power or respect. A new form of deterrence. Violation and menace thus become the only usable wedge, and the more of it the better, exagerating it is positive. If Iran manages to produce a handful of low-grade enriched uranium, it should announce it can make ‘a bomb’ in 16 days (or whatever nonsense), the more extravagant the better, as all scientific common sense has long blown out the window, and what counts is attitude and bluster. Saying that Israel should not exist is also clever.
The Iranians are not helping the US administration out – they are doing the only thing they can. They have been forced into their agressive position by the US and the West. They have also understood that to be perceived as rabid and unpredicable or even incompetent – loose cannons! (like the US) is the only way to go – there are simply no other choices left. In some sense, the escalation may superficially suit the US – they can claim they are facing mad dogs and thus justify attacks. Iran must up the ante – and hope for the best. Or fight. But better to fight sooner rather than later. Better to provoke a low grade attack than face annihilation. Best to quickly have the cards fall as they may.
What exactly is being fought for? Control of oil and supply pipelines. Deals with Russia, China, etc.
A common perception in the West is that Ahmadinejad is loopy and has whipped up Anti-US / Irarel sentiment and has polarised Iranians against everyone, and is fighting for personal supremacy.
That is forgetting, for example, that tens of thousands of scientists have been unemployed for many years, and drawing small support / unemployment pay (or whatever to keep them alive). Now, I suppose, many of them have gotten back to work. The pressure must have been tremendous. Black-outs in Teheran will have sent housewives, teens, working fathers, wild. Everyone will have felt – we are being prevented from doing what everyone else has the right to do – work, use our education, advance, do science, solve problems.
(… readers get the drift..enough for now…)

Posted by: Noisette | Apr 18 2006 21:22 utc | 19

There was some murking about “new research on P2 centrifuges” and Billmon had jumped on that in his first Flight Forward.
Turns out it is old news. Research on P2’s were announced by Iran to the IAEA in 2005 and are completly rational given that you need tons of low enriched uranium for civil use. Having more productive centrifuges is important to make the economic case viable.

Posted by: b | Apr 19 2006 14:28 utc | 20

Morford is channeling Billmon.

Posted by: ww | Apr 20 2006 10:22 utc | 21