Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 22, 2006
Two Polls On Racism

One third of French people say they are racist, a French human rights
watchdog said on Tuesday, …

Some 33 percent of 1,011 people surveyed face-to-face by pollsters CSA
said they were "somewhat" or "a little" racist, …

The poll asked the question "When it comes to you personally, would you
say you are …" followed by a list of options: somewhat racist, a bit
racist, not racist, not very racist, not racist at all and don’t want
to say.
One third of French say they are racist, Reuters, 22 March 2006

Sixty-eight percent of Israeli Jews would refuse to live in the same apartment building as an Israeli Arab, according to the results of an annual poll released Wednesday by the Center for the Struggle Against Racism.

Forty-six percent of Jews would refuse to allow an Arab to visit their home while 50 percent would welcome an Arab visitor. Forty-one percent of Jewish support the segregation of Jews and Arabs in places of recreation and 52 percent of such Jews would oppose such a move.
Poll: 68% of Jews would refuse to live in same building as an Arab, Haaretz, 22 March 2006

Comments

My own personal theory is that eveery nationality is pretty much equally racist: they just have different ways of expressing it and different laws and institutions based on their own racism.
Europe, as we have seen, has had an awful time integrating its immigrants, while America’s immigrants have an easier time realizing the American Dream. For that, our blacks and native Americans have had a consistently rough time escaping the cycle of poverty.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 22 2006 19:52 utc | 1

Let’s invert this here. What percentage of white Americans, or any other nationality, would live in an apartment house where everyone else was black?
Think hard folks, and wipe the sweat off your brow.
Ralphieboy is right, everyone is racist. There are those of us who are aware of our racism, and those of us who aren’t.
I lived in 95% black (and Indian) West Indian society for four years, but for two of them I lived in mixed neighborhoods.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 22 2006 20:34 utc | 2

It would be very interesting to see what sort of results you would get if the two surveys were taken again, but in the other locations. I’d bet that you would find that practically no Israelis would consider themselves racist, while a much larger percentage of French people (than the Israelis, anyway) would be friendly to Arabs. (I’d even go so far as to say that you would find self-proclaimed racists welcoming Arabs.) Asking people “are you racist” doesn’t really tell you much, because you’ll get effective false positives (people who have a persistent bias in their thinking which they already recognize and correct consciously when they can) and many, many false negatives (people who either don’t want to admit they are racist or who “aren’t racist, they just hate [fill in the blank]s”). The other survey is more revealing, but still undoubtedly subject to similar problems.

Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | Mar 22 2006 20:37 utc | 3

More from the Haaretz piece linked above

During the course of 2005, 225 racially-motivated incidents directed at Arab citizens were reported to the center or in the media. The center believes that less than 20 percent of attacks or other incidents are ever reported.
Seventy-fire percent of the reports on racist incidents came from institutional sources such as government ministries, government companies or publicly-elected officials.
The poll further revealed that 63 percent of Jewish Israelis agree with the statement, “Arabs are a security and demographic threat to the state.” Thirty-one percent of Jews did not agree. Agreement with the statement was strongest among Orthodox and ultra-Orthodox Jews and low-income earners.
Forty percent of Jews believe “the state needs to support the emigration of Arab citizens” and just 52 percent don’t agree with the statement.
Thirty-four percent also agreed with the statement that “Arab culture is inferior to Israeli culture.” Fifty-seven percent did not agree with the statement.

To me that sounds like Germany short before the Reichskristallnacht.
Can, please, someone explain to me why nearly a majority of the people in Israel are trying to repeat what has been done to their people.
In the Warsaw ghetto the jews were starved by the Germans (before they were killed). For 44 days, until yesterday, Israel did not allow ANY transport from or into the Gaza strip. People there need 70 tons of flour each day. They didn´t get a gramm. Olmert only reluctantly allowed a few trucks in after serious pressure from the US.
But when a youth gang in France kidnapped and killed some boy because they thought his parents had money, the press was full of French=anti-semitism. Yes the boy was jewish but that was not the point in that case.

Posted by: b | Mar 22 2006 21:05 utc | 4

that is not quite the same thing Malooga though you have very valid point. most white americans would have a black in their homes and vice versa. many blacks live in appartments where everyone else is white and some whites live in places where the majority is black.
it is not that common for whites to live in predominantly black neighborhoods but I think that is due to economic reasons mostly.
of course we are all racist to some degree.
I saw a politcal sign this morning driving to work that gave me pause. It said Islamisten Raus! I was really quite shocked and did not expect anything like that. You would never see anything like Out with Catholics or Mormons but it seems OK to hate Muslims here in Germany now.

Posted by: dan of steele | Mar 22 2006 21:20 utc | 5

Completely beside the point, and allowing for the fact that in French perhaps the distinctions are clear, what would be the difference between ‘somewhat’, ‘a bit’, and ‘not very’ (or, for that matter, ‘not’ and ‘not… at all’) in the first poll? In English at least that only comes across as 2 choices: not racist or a little racist. Again, beside the point and no big deal, but it’s hard to take seriously as written.

Posted by: mats | Mar 22 2006 21:28 utc | 6

No it is not exactly the same thing, dan of steele, but it is a matter of degree.
Whites in America feel comfortable when they are the majority, and expect blacks to feel comfortable when they are the minority, or even the lone token. But whites in America, by and large, feel very uncomfortable when they are in the extreme minority. They are used to the “Cultural Hegemony” of being white. They are not familiar with, and do not understand, other cultures’ images of “whiteness,” and don’t understand when others don’t see them as they see themselves. It’s all basic diversity training.
That is also why, when several years ago a study appeared here in Boston indicating that blacks were pulled over in their cars for random police stops far more often than whites, the white people here did not understand why the blacks were upset. After all, “they live in poor neighborhoods and commit all the crime,” so why not pull them over? And this in the famous “busing” city.
The “Cultural Hegemony” of being white. We take for granted the privilege that being a majority of the population entails. When a white person has to drive through a black neighborhood at night, he wants more cops. When a black person is seen driving through a white neighborhood regulary at night the white person wants him pulled over to see “what his business” is.
Chomsky told the story last year of driving a black person, who was staying temporarily in his upper-middle class neighborhood of Lexington, home after an event one night. They got pulled over by the cops instantly. They “just wanted to check if everything is OK.” He stated, “The Police function as a virtual border guard around the lily-white communities to the Northwest of Boston, stopping anyone, or any car that does not look right.
The point I am trying to make is not that the Israelis aren’t racist; clearly a number are. The point is that it is much harder to detect our own societies’ racism, particularly when it is subtle, or doesn’t affect our own lives directly.
For that matter, I wonder how many denizens of “Moon” here are not white.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 22 2006 21:56 utc | 7

Here’s a gentle satire on racism from the Broadway musical Avenue Q, a grown-up take-off on Sesame Street.
Here at the Moon, we’re all black on pale blue. I’m not even sure of some of y’all’s gender.

Posted by: catlady | Mar 22 2006 22:16 utc | 8

At the implicit association test site they have a number of tests were you can measure your different prejudices. Not only do they offer races related tests but also on gender, age, fat/thin, antisemitism and so on.
In short the implicit association tests show how easy or hard time you have in connecting certain categories (white-good and black-bad might be much easier then white-bad and black-good). When I have shown this to liberal friends they have generally started by saying “oh, it is going to show that I am rascist, because growing up in this society and so forth”. Still they have got quite disappointed at themselves because they still hoped it would show them to be completely non-rascist.
Malooga,
being a bit in Africa and sticking out as a, well as a extremely pale (yeah big surprise, I am from Sweden, odds are I am pale) person in Africa (gotta work on those allegories) made me much more appreciative on how it must be to be colored in Sweden. Just take the simple fact that you are always identified, you can not ever just melt into the crowd. Felt odd. Felt odd coming home too, almost everybody were so pale. Like they had not been getting enough sun.
catlady,
do we at all need take with us our cultures imposition of genders when we gather in the pale moonlight?

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Mar 22 2006 23:03 utc | 9

One small exception to the color rule for getting pulled over:
I discovered a few years back when settling a fender bender with cash that a white person driving into a non-white neighborhood early in the morning will also get you pulled over.
What else would a white person be doing there but buying drugs? Natch!
Oy.

Posted by: citizen | Mar 22 2006 23:23 utc | 10

A melanin rich pro basketball player used the “they stopped me because I’m black and driving an expensive car” defence and caused a big stink. The cop said he was speeding and weaving, as in DUI. Oh, no the cops are racist. He was convicted of drunk driving in the end.
There has also been lots of black kids shooting each other – one at a funeral for another poor sod – with no witnesses (in large crowds) and little description other than black male. What to do?
You’re entitled to your freedom, but the Peelers need to do their jobs too. I have been stopped a couple of times in my life and questioned. Once they were satisfied that I wasn’t the suspect, the cops were quite happy to tell me why. I was so polite to the cop that busted me for D&D (nothing to do with dungeons), that he wrote me up and let me go.
I had a friend that was really an arse when drunk and rode the Cherry Beach express a few times.
I have another that was picked up for ‘theft’ as soon as he crossed the Calgary city limits on his way to protest the G8 in Kananaskis. He politely told them he wasn’t playing their game and after a couple of hours of polite conversation, er interrogation, (photos and prints) they let him go.
What to do?
The rash of shootings caught up with a bright, pretty little white creature on Boxing Day. Oh the hue and cry, the hullabaloo over her collateral-ness. It outshone the outcry at the funeral shooting by an order of magnitude. There is a woman who works in the caf at work and her son was shot in their driveway. His future was as bright as that of the girl’s by all accounts. Luckily, he survived but nary a peep. Too much melanin.
Tangentally, a local radio Q-list celebrity was moved to rail against the black community for not coming forward as witnesses with evidence about the thugs involved.
This person later rationalises Canukistan’s involvement with US imperialism and derides critics of the Messopotamia as untrustworthy back-stabbers by repeating the you always stick up for your friends line of “thought”. I asked if that isn’t just what the friends and families of the accused are doing by not coming forward?
I was politely told to manually fornicate. This person wrote a “don’t blame the troops” column about a year ago? that blamed the mess on the Iraqis…

Posted by: gmac | Mar 22 2006 23:36 utc | 11

“To me that sounds like Germany short before the Reichskristallnacht.
Can, please, someone explain to me why nearly a majority of the people in Israel are trying to repeat what has been done to their people.”

“But Bernhard, surely you know that when the Jews were killed, it was a great tragedy, because they are God’s Chosen People. But the Palestinians? Come now…. You must know that they are not even a real people. There were no Palestinians before Jews settled the land. “A land without a people, for a people without a land,” Golda told us. Now, there was a Bubbe you could trust!
The Palestinians, they settled upon our skin like a bunch of blood-thirsty sand fleas. Their own cousins would not take that shiftless bunch in. We gave them jobs in Israel, when there weren’t even enough for us, and how did they show their gratitude? By blowing us up! What more can we do for them? They are no good I tell you, schnorrers, all of them. If they want to mooch, let them mooch off of someone else.
Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch, that’s all they do, with their false land claims and cacamaimey “memories” of a past that never existed. Then there are the endless schmutzy babies, all crying and drekking all over the place; they all want care. They all want something I tell you, and we don’t even have enough for our own here.
They’re bringing down the IQ of the neighborhood, I tell you. We Jews, we discovered the “Theory of Relativity,” and even Niels Bohr, who discovered the atom, was half-Jewish, but of course that was easier because it’s a much smaller thing. What did the Palestinians ever discover? Sand! Is there a Nobel prize for sand? Well, if there was, I’m sure some nice young Jewish Doctor would have discovered it. He’d probably be smart enough to put a patent on it too, and make lots of money.
And their thirst! They could drink more water than a camel, and with far less use. A camel provides milk and cheese and transportation, but a Palestinian, huh, what does he provide. He cannot do even the simplest job right. I tell you, just the other day I hired one of them to repair this stone wall, and look at it, crumbling already… They can’t even make their little toy Kassam rockets fly right; why they kill more of their own people fiddling with them, than us, Baruch Hashem, bless G-d.
And I don’t have to tell you about the corruption of their leaders. Arafat going about in that stinky Kaffiyeh, I don’t think he changed that do-rag once in thirty five years, I mean that dirty little homunculus never shvitsted, not once. While his wife was running around Paris spending money faster than we can mint Shekels. And their legendary shortsightedness. You know that “they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.” It takes more than a schlemazel to bring such tsures upon themselves.
Listen, you know me, I love everyone. Look I even learned to accept those “Swartzer” Ethiopian Falasha stick figures when that nutcase Peres let them in. I taught them in school; they were even allowed to attend a regular school, though God knows why, they eat with their fingers and use their bread for a tablecloth. When that fursluggeneh Rabbi declared that THEY were Jewish, who knew? Look at me, that was when my hair turned grey.
I even tried to make friends with a Palestinian once, back in grade school. I invited her over after to school to play, and when I turned my back on her, my mother, my very own mother, bless her soul, caught her trying to steal the silverware. You never saw such mishigas in your life as when she caught that little ganif and forced her to confess.
So, what can I do? I pray. I pray that maybe the Holy One, blessed be he, would give them some brains. Then maybe they would be smart enough to realize that they are not wanted here, and go away. Let them play with the stinky Egyptians, or else let them move to Jordan. You know, there’s a lot of money there since the Americans stated bringing Democracy to the neighborhood.
Anyway, we have the pushy Russians to take care of, and now those frum Brooklyners, with their high airs, that they know the Torah better than we do! Hummmm!
At least I know that Hashem is gazing down upon me, and seeing what I have to deal with. You know some days, I just don’t know how I put up with all this mishegas, I just don’t know…”

Besides the pain and the fear, and the uncertain knowlege that one day your own life as an activist might one day be called to account, I must say that watching fascism take root is a very interesting process.
I find myself much more interested in reading accounts of Germany between the wars. And now I find that I understand the German people and what they went through and have much more sympathy for them.
The conditions are ripe in much the same way: The gradual loss of power and economic standing of a people, as their ruling class grasps at increasingly more violent “solutions” to maintain its power.
Simply put, while one cannot excuse the actions of the ’30’s Germans or the present day Israelis or Americans, these are policies consciously implemented from the top down. I’m sure everyone here is familiar with the notorious Goebbels quote about how easy it is to control people, but, he’s right, it is very easy to do so. We live in highly specialized societies, where mastering some abstruse niche of knowledge is considered education. But it isn’t. Very few people understand how societies actually work, how they are run, governed, how decisions and plans are actually made and by whom, how News is carefully manufactured and brightly packaged, and how soft opinions are delicately molded to fit the fashions and constraints of the times.
Maybe this is a good time to quote a piece that made a big impression on my life when I first read it almost 15 years ago.
It’s by the Libertarian, Southern columnist, Charley Reese. I don’t agree with many of his political prescriptions, but he is brutally honest, and has hammered Bush from day one.

HOW TO CONTROL PEOPLE
by Charley Reese
The difference between true education and vocational training has been cleverly blurred. Here are a few tips on how smart people can control other people. If any of this rings a bell – Well, then wake up!
The first principle of people control is not to let them know you are controlling them. If people knew, this knowledge will breed resentment and possibly rebellion, which would then require brute force and terror, and old fashioned, expensive and not 100 % certain method of control.
It is easier than you think to control people indirectly, to manipulate them into thinking what you want them to think and doing what you want them to do.
One basic technique is to keep them ignorant. Educated people are not as easy to manipulate. Abolishing public education or restricting access to education would be the direct approach. That would spill the beans. The indirect approach is to control the education they receive.
It’s possible to be a Ph.D., doctor, lawyer, businessman, journalist, or an accountant, just to name a few examples, and at the same time be an uneducated person. The difference between true education and vocational training has been cleverly blurred in our time so that we have people successfully practicing their vocations while at the same time being totally ignorant of the larger issues of the world in which they live.
The most obvious symptom is their absence of original thought. Ask them a question and they will end up reciting what someone else thinks or thought the answer was. What do they think Well, they never thought about it. Their education consisted of learning how to use the library and cite sources.
That greatly simplifies things for the controller because with lots of money, university endowments, foundations, grants, and ownership of media, it is relatively easy to control who they will think of as authorities to cite in lieu of doing their own thinking.
Another technique is to keep them entertained. Roman emperors did not stage circuses and gladiator contests because they didn’t have television. We have television because we don’t have circuses and gladiator events. Either way, the purpose is to keep the people’s minds focused on entertainment, sports, and peripheral political issues. This way you won’t have to worry that they will ever figure out the real issues that allow you to control them.
Just as a truly educated person is difficult to control, so too is an economically independent person. Therefore, you want to create conditions that will produce people who work for wages, since wage earners have little control over their economic destiny. You’ll also want to control the monetary, credit, and banking systems. This will allow you to inflate the currency and make it next to impossible for wage earners to accumulate capital. You can also cause periodic deflation to collapse the
family businesses, family farms, and entrepreneurs, including independent community banks.
To keep trade unions under control, you just promote a scheme that allows you to shift production jobs out of the country and bring back the products as imports (it is called free trade). This way you will end up with no unions or docile unions.
Another technique is to buy both political parties so that after a while people will feel that no matter whether they vote for Candidate A or Candidate B, they will get the same policies. This will create great apathy and a belief that the political process is useless for effecting real change.
Pretty soon you will have a population that feels completely helpless, and thinks the bad things happening to them are nobody in particular’s fault, just a result of global forces or evolution or some other disembodied abstract concept. If necessary, you can offer scapegoats.
Then you can bleed them dry without having to worry overly much that one of them will sneak into your house one night and cut your throat. If you do it right, they won’t even know whose throat they are cutting.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 22 2006 23:49 utc | 12

In my condo building there are White, East Indian, Chinese and Arab no African origin. We all hate the smell of each others cooking but we all say hello when on the elevator. I think we are a little ‘Tribal’ though. We all seem to have our ‘own’ type of friends, both ethnic and religious. Racist? I don’t know. Tolerant? Yes. Bigoted? No.

Posted by: pb | Mar 22 2006 23:51 utc | 13

Addition:
Kvetch, kvetch, kvetch, that’s all they do, with their false land claims and cacamaimey “memories” of a past that never existed. You know, one day, one of them came up to my own house with a key that he claimed would fit the lock, and before I could stop him, he stuck it in and turned it and the door opened. That little Rasputin claimed he had lived in my very own house once, and that it was really his, the nerve of him. Why, he couldn’t pay this mortgage in his dreams! Then there are the endless schmutzy babies, all crying and drekking all over the place; they all want care. They all want something I tell you, and we don’t even have enough for our own here.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 22 2006 23:59 utc | 14

EGO can audite totus illa ineo in Latin, this shit is so old

Posted by: gmac | Mar 23 2006 0:06 utc | 15

Linguistic Chauvinism
documents an encounter a couple of years or so back, with a fervent zionist who believes that Arabic is inherently an inferior language to Hebrew. this kind of thinking recurs across cultures and epochs…

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 23 2006 1:46 utc | 16

iron dan,
there is a distinction between Islamism and Islam, just as there is a distinction between a Catholic and a Grand Inquisitor. The nuance is lost on many (as with those who want to forbid German schoolteachers from wearing headscarves), and is used by others to spread hatred, but in the end, I do not want to see militant Islam spread in the world.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 23 2006 5:33 utc | 17

askod- i was taking some of those exams earlier this afternoon & was pondering whether to work that link into a comment. you beat me to it 🙂
i don’t see that anyone has brought up the institutional & systemic components of racism yet. racism, hate & fear are all social experiences; they are learned behaviors, reinforced through the structural ordering of one’s reality. heirarchical societies enforce institutional delineations of command and obedience. think about how the breakdown of social ties based on kinship, which had served to decentralize the self, have led to its replacement by either strong class affiliation or – esp when capitalism becomes not only an economic ordering, but a social way of mentalizing life – identity with-and-of commodities. the modern human becomes self-centered – further removed from experience – as communites become atomized. the organization of city-states required this debasing of human experience to function, separating humans not only from their natural settings, but also from each other. class societies. slavery. the institutionalized other. no longer are those populations who are different from the rulers just an enemy to be conquered or driven back; they are objects to be exploited, subhumans to be dominated, scapegoats for easy victimization, lesser valued lives. those people.
the notion of biological inferiority – as if someone whose physical features are different is of a lesser species – build & resonate in organized societies as a method of justifying large-scale crimes & attrocities. one need look no further back than the settlement of the americas, esp the northern half of the continent. the rationale that enabled the genocide of the existing inhabitants was not just the act of racist individuals & professional indian-haters – it was institutionally & culturally implemented and then reinforced across all levels of daily life. we can see the same structures in place in israel. we’re talking about a settler nation whose policies are committed to an ongoing genocide of the long-time, darker-skinned occupants of those very lands. was there any doubt that large contingents of its citizenry understand that they hold deep prejudices & animosity toward arabs? if enough people were opposed to those sentiments, those structural policies would not exist. there would not be a genocide taking place at this moment.
the fact that institutions permeate our era is not irreversible. but it will take a lot more openness than either poll indicates.

Posted by: b real | Mar 23 2006 5:44 utc | 18

clarification — “the fact that these institutions permeate our era is not irreversible”

Posted by: b real | Mar 23 2006 5:49 utc | 19

Can, please, someone explain to me why nearly a majority of the people in Israel are trying to repeat what has been done to their people.

B, firstly thank you for that link to “Raising Yousuf: a diary of a mother under occupation”, most interesting. Secondly, the question you pose is one that I’ve been wondering about myself for a long time. Beats me. Israeli Politicians fly around the world to open ever new Holocaust memorials and museums, and upon returning home they give orders to assassinate Palestinians, build ghettos for them and as in the case of Gaza, nearly starve those people. What goes on in their heads I don’t know. I believe there is some kind of corelation though between what happened to the Jewish people of central Europe 70 years ago and the plight the Palestinians suffer at the hand of the Israelis today. The Jews back then were powerless against the Nazi machine, a feeling the survivors didn’t forget. Thus their determination to be now the ones with power.
On top of that I believe that the hate that the persecution and killings of so many Jews would have caused in the ones who survived the ordeal is being vented at the Palestinians, serving as proxies for the Nazis which they couldn’t get revenge on, along the line of ‘Nazis were against us, Palestinians are against us, ergo Palestinians are Nazis’, and therefore deserve the cruelty that is being dished out to them, you know, an eye for an eye, or in this case a Warsaw for a Gaza. That many Israelis themselves become in parts like the Nazis doesn’t occur to them, as in their minds they are fighting a just war for the promised land. Also, like Malooga pointed out in his comment, many Jews see themselves as superior to pretty much all other races, especially the Palestinians, who in their heads occupy a status closer to animal than human, Undermenschen so to say, another set of believes that shows that they are actually mentally not that far apart from the Nazis. Sad, very sad, but also very true.

Posted by: Feelgood | Mar 23 2006 7:39 utc | 20

Quote:
Ralphieboy is right, everyone is racist. There are those of us who are aware of our racism, and those of us who aren’t.
——
Yep…unfortunately.People who face it can TRY to deal with it!Others are lost…

Posted by: vbo | Mar 23 2006 11:03 utc | 21

I love being quoted, but not misquoted: I proposed that “every nationality is equally racist”.
Growing up in Gary, Indiana, I experienced “blockbusting” in two different neighborhoods. The first black families to move in always seemed to correspond to everybody’s preconceived notion of what was going to happen when they allowed “them” into the neighborhood: kids running wild, bicycles disappearing, noise, trash, etc.
Within months, most the whites had sold out at a loss and moved on. We were too poor to afford to move at first and stayed on as a minority. All the other black families that moved in were nice folks and decent neighbors. Some became my good friends. But the real estate companies had managed to turn over almost all the properties in a big hurry.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 23 2006 14:35 utc | 22

One interesting aspect of the Israeli situation,vs say that of the US or France, is that it is acceptable to be openly racist without paying a political price – in fact it brings dividends.
The Israeli journalist Shavit explains that Ariel Sharon was completely open about his racisim.
I am not denying that many politicians both in the US or Europe would like to be so open – and no doubt it would pay.
But if your prime minister is an open racist, that’s saying something about the quality of your democracy and country.

Posted by: tgs | Mar 23 2006 16:36 utc | 23

tgs,
one can argue that it is better to deal with an open & honest racist than with a concealed & conniving one: remember Willie Horton?

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 23 2006 17:30 utc | 24

Interesting tale, ralphieboy. Banks don’t make money off of people who have paid off their mortgages, hence blockbusting. The book “The Death of an American Jewish Community” tells the tale of blockbusting in Boston.
Good point, tgs. To run a country these days, your quest for power must render you pathological. Qualms about killing people cannot be an issue if you want to hold power.
I have thought about this issue, how the Jews could so perfectly reprise their experience under Nazi Germany upon another people, for a long time. The psychological symmetry of the situation is indeed most remarkable.
I really think more credence should be given to my assertation that these events are primarily elite driven tactics which they find necessary to implement in order to hold power and increase their wealth. Jews in Germany were far more integrated and accepted into society than anywhere else in Europe. Where Warsaw was the capital of Jewish mysticism, the Hassidic movement–where Jews looked very different from their neighbors and functioned outside the prevailing society–Germany was the center of Jewish integration into the mainstream of society. The Haskalah movement of the eighteenth century began and was strongest in Germany. It advocated the complete integration of the Jew into the society around him. Reform Judaism was a child of the Haskalah. Hebrew was eliminated from services and the service was modeled directly upon surrounding Protestant models complete with sermonizing, and organ music even! I won’t go on further, but to assert that “blaming the Jew” was a deliberate outgrowth of government implemented policies of enforced scarcities–of food, education, jobs, etc.–where there wasn’t enough to go around, combined with an extensive and prolonged campaign of government supported propaganda. There is nothing mysterious about this process.
It should also be noted that a far more significant portion of Israeli society (30-40%) than US society, is aghast at their own goverments policies. Ignorance of the true nature of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, because of press propaganda, accounts for the much greater degree of complicity, and identification with the Israeli governmnets policies, here in the US.
One last point, as I humorously referred to in my little skit above (which I’m surprised nobody comented upon, I thought it was one of the funniest things I have written and it includes virtually every rationalization being employed in Israel today) I mentioned that Israelis son’t see themselves as killing Palestinians, they see themselves as punishing them for their bad behavior. When I was younger, I had an unfixed male cat as a pet. I learned just how quickly one can descend into a vicious and hopeless cycle of punishment/retribution, even when one intends the best.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 23 2006 19:29 utc | 25

Malooga,
I for one liked your skit but I certainly don’t have the writing ability to comment on something as profound and provocative as that. we all walk on eggshells when it comes to that argument and you are the only one who can really tear into it.

Posted by: dan of steele | Mar 23 2006 20:59 utc | 26

malooga,
well, if Europeans wonder why Muslims are hesitant to integrate into society, it could be because they saw what happened when the Jews tried it in Germany…oy, veh!!!

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 23 2006 21:00 utc | 27

I don’t find Israeli mirroring of Nazi offences surprising at all. Many paedophiles were molested themselves as children; many batterers were beaten themselves as children. You could say that the survivors of European pogroms and the Nazi horror had a traumatic learning experience from which they took, depending on personality and circs, two different lessons. Some became deeply committed to justice and nonviolence, some concluded that the world is a Hobbesian jungle and the only way to survive is to be the meanest SOB in the valley, as the cheesy old T shirt has it.
Are the Likud in Israel so different from the American daddy or mummy who goes out and buys a 3 tonne SUV so that in a car wreck, his/her kids will be the survivors and the other person’s kids will die? And as with the SUV owner, the notion that the grossly heavy and ruinously costly armoured vehicle (gated community, walled ghetto, fortress nation, bunker mentality) is actually creating more danger not only for others but for the family, is dismissed as counterintuitive and nonsensical.
This is imho a classic case of failing to solve the Prisoner’s Dilemma, and it happens all the time. We’ve had a similar discussion in the past which led me to quote Auden and I will, with apologies for repetition, do so again:
I and the public know
what all schoolchildren learn:
those who whom evil is done
do evil in return.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 23 2006 21:14 utc | 28

DeAnander’s, post above reminded me of Alice Miller’s latest:
The Origins of Torture In Endured Child Abuse

Many people have claimed to be appalled by the acts of perversion committed by American soldiers on ADULT people, Iraqi prisoners. Amazingly, I have never heard of any such reaction in response to the occasional attempts to expose similar practices committed towards CHILDREN as for instance in British and American schools. There, these practices come under the heading of “education.” But the cruelty is the same. The world appears to be surprized that such brutality should rear its head among the American forces. After all, America presents itself to the international public as the guardian of world peace. There is an explanation for all this, but hardly anyone wants to hear it.
It is definitely a good thing that light has been cast on the situation and that the media have exposed this lie for what it is. Basically it runs as follows: We are a civilized, freedom-loving nation and bring democracy and independence to the whole world. Under this motto the Americans forced their way into Iraq with devastating results and still insist that they are exporting cultural values. But now it turns out that alongside their bombs and missiles the well-drilled, smartly dressed soldiers are carrying a huge arsenal of pent-up rage around with them, invisible on the outside, invisible for themselves, lurking deep down within, but unmistakably dangerous.
Where does this suppressed rage come from, this need to torment, humiliate, mock, and abuse helpless human beings (prisoners and children as well)? What are these outwardly tough soldiers avenging themselves for? And where have they learnt such behavior?…

I’ll be posting light the next few days as I seem to have the flu, right now I’m going to go lay down and listen to Dinah Washington’s anthology 1943-1959 and chill out.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Mar 23 2006 23:07 utc | 29

I am White(Caucasian) mixed w/ some Indian, Black Irish & German and I am no where near racist. I respect all people (well those who will respect me back). I wish people would stop dwelling on the past and move on. This world would be so much better (in that case) if people would actually do that.

Posted by: Haley | Sep 10 2006 5:02 utc | 30

Not sure that everyone is a bit racist. From all accounts, the native Americans and Africans who first encountered Europeans were welcoming & friendly towards the Europeans.
Probably the most misguided are those who look down on the less priviledged or less “gentrified” as primitives or inferiors.
the fact is that racism today has been instituitionalized over the last 600 years or so. Actually longer than that. And virtually few or none of the efforts to end racism in the West attempt to confront racism as an entrenched instituition.
The favorite dodge is to shift the blame on Blacks. Works all the time or most of the time i.e Katrina, the massively disproportionate incarceration of Black men, …
Perhaps one of the most disturbing things about racism in the West is how it has created a consciousnness in the minds of both Whites and Blacks of “the highly sexualized Black”. Such consciousnness is virtually non-existent amongst Africans. At least it does not exist in the minds of Africans who have not been significantly exposed to Eurocentrism.
The sad part and I think some on this board know it, is that Western countries are simply not capable of uprooting racism as an instituitionalized disease.

Posted by: jony_b_cool | Sep 10 2006 8:15 utc | 31

I havn’t read all coments, but this is my 2 cents. Everyone is racist to some degree after being exposed to the world and watching news. Racism is the outcome of difference of cultures. I myself am racist, only towards a specific target audience, in my case it’s most African Americans, those who live poorly and don’t seem to want to get out of poverty and cherish education, their slang language and oppressive ways insult me, on the contrary to most African descendants from outside of the U.S who seem very literate and appreciative of different cultures, they are also aware of things other than 50 cents and celebrities, and dont ignore you and push you while standing in line. That’s my opinion since i’ve never lived or been an African American, i’d like to hear a response from the other side. All issues present, and remember the specific target audience I refer to.

Posted by: Leo | Oct 31 2006 1:54 utc | 32

i’m not racist, in fact i just wrote a paper on racisim two hours ago

Posted by: alexis | Feb 11 2007 22:01 utc | 33