Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 23, 2006
Good And Bad Elections

Georgia’s election was jubilated in the "Western" press, Belarus’ election is damned. But are both of these results realistic at all?

Good elections:
Georgia, 4 January 2004
Mikheil Saakashvili 96.0%
Total turnout 82.8%

Bad elections:
Belarus, 19 March 2006
Alexander Lukashenko 82.6%
Total turnout 92.6%
Comments

Quote:
But are both of these results realistic at all?
***
Of course NOT!

Posted by: vbo | Mar 23 2006 10:25 utc | 1

The city is ours!
Город наш! The city is ours! Belarussians are using weblogs, online communities, and text messaging to organize, share news and numerous photos, and oppose their corrupt government’s fraudulent election. Patriotism, flags, and dark blue is in fashion, whether the government likes it or not.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Mar 23 2006 10:55 utc | 2

Uncle, people are just marionettes in this game. I wish I could be naive as I used to be…sorry …

Posted by: vbo | Mar 23 2006 11:07 utc | 3

Live translation of live blogging

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Mar 23 2006 11:10 utc | 4

What I find amusing about the the elections in Belarus is that the state run TV station showed apparently russian observers who attested the election role model democratic standards, and this despite the fact that a lot of the opposition leader Milinkewitschs’s staffers were arrested shortly before the election. The CIA must have a field day over there. I am just waiting for the colour to be announced under which the ‘revolution’ is supposed to be known.
Are the results realistic? Hardly, but then again, they didn’t have Diebold machines to make sure they are unbelievable. I guess, if it came down to it, you could at least still sight the actual vote cards. What gets me is, if you wanted to rig the elections, would you come up with a result like 82.6%? I mean thats pretty hard to believe, and they surely must know that. Why not declare a slightly more modest result, say 65%? You still win the election, got absolute power, and probably a few less raised eyebrows in the West.

Posted by: Feelgood | Mar 23 2006 11:51 utc | 5

Umm–so Saakashvili got more votes than the total cast? Maybe they ARE getting the knack of Diebold elections!

Posted by: Gaianne | Mar 23 2006 13:36 utc | 6

Let us not forget our other democratic foster child, Afghanistan, which is now being naughty and threatening to execute a Muslim who violated their laws by converting to Christianity.
On one hand, we must look at it on the relative scale of things: under the Taliban the fellow would’ve just been beheaded on the spot, at least he can now look forward to a trial.
One the other hand, we have to look at what is happening in Palestine, Iraq & Afghanistan and realize that spreading democracy is a noble cause, but also a long, tedious and sometimes confounding process. We certainly cannot expect to impose it by force of arms.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 23 2006 15:16 utc | 7

spreading democracy is a noble cause
If you have enough to spare to “spread” it around…

Posted by: b | Mar 23 2006 15:28 utc | 8

Figures are percentage of votes cast, not eligible voters.

Posted by: biklett | Mar 23 2006 17:06 utc | 9

It just goes to prove that the Russians CAN learn from the West.
On a more serious note, it is clear that these elections are not about “Democracy”, or the will of the people, in any meaningful sense. What we have going on is a replay of the cold war shrunk into a bottle. Instead of the old SU and the US manipulating client states for control of the world, we now have a vastly engorged US, and a regional power, Russia, struggling for control of Northwest Asia.
Again, when we talk about the “US” or “Russia,” we are employing a shorthand symbolizing the elite that control the vast wealth of those countries. I, as a USA’an, unfortunately, do not get ANYTHING from who wins or who loses.
The stakes are much higher for a cornered Russia. The West had a measure of control of Russia under Yeltsin, put Putin has proved far wilier and wrested that control away. (On a side note, the practice of elevating the moribund to leadership has worked far better for the US than the USSR, and its successor, Russia. cf: Reagan, Yeltsin, Andropov, etc.)
The important question here, as asked by Feelgood, is why are the results being so unbelievably skewed? I believe there are two reasons for this.
First, the stakes are so high in this conflict, neither side can afford to lose. The capitalist US, bloodied and weakened by Iraq, like a shark, needs to be continually moving into new markets to soak up excess capital and spur business growth. Unregulated markets, the wild west of capitalism, which we see in the Russian satellites, are particularly attractive. The US also feels that if it can continually chip away at the old Soviet sphere, it can eventually regain control over Russia, the Grand Prize. This is essential leverage needed for the coming conflict with China.
How does the West plan to engineer this? I believe that they need to regain control of Iraq, Iran and Nigeria, in order to create one last oil glut, driving prices back down into the $20/bl range, and thus toppling the remaining oil fiefdoms of Russia and Venezuela. (This will also weaken Canada, and bring it further under American domination.)
For a while, I have become increasingly suspicious of the absolute plethora of beautifully designed “Peak Oil” sites popping up all over the web, the story making its way to PBS, with its “faux” greenwashing commercials for BP and others, the cover of National Geographic, and elsewhere.
Having worked in the oil industry, I know the level of knowledge, competance, and long-range planning, in a very capital-intensive industry, to be high. I just can’t believe the party line that virtually no one saw this coming.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that the very concept of Peak Oil is a myth; or that it will not come eventually, probably sometime within the next 20-30 years. What I am saying is that all those Chicken Little’s who say that Peak Oil has already arrived, probably in 2004, or whatever, are either incredibly wrong in their analysis, or CIA plants.
Clearly, the current rise in oil prices has been engineered by the US. Iraq could be pumping an additional 6 MBPD, equivalent to 8% of world-wide consumption, if it weren’t for sanctions and the invasion. Nigeria could be far more productive too, if it weren’t for the strife caused by the absolutely brutal treatment of the population and despoilation of the environment by the ruling junta/oil company consortium. We already have seen evidence here at “Moon” that some of the “strikes” against Saudi facilities were less than credible. Additionally, the US has recently quietly engaged in an almost unprecedented expansion of its strategic petroleum reserves, something that would be impossible is a severe world oil shortage.
Alright, getting back to the original topic of this post, how does Russia see the situation? Their interest has to lie in setting up a valid countervailing global union to the US. They need time to do this, and to do this in such a way that they do not end up as a mere appendage to someone else’s empire. They need the US preoccupied, harrassed, and weakened, with other regional conflicts. It appears that they have learned what they need to know to combat US “Democracy,” and I’ll come back to that later.
They need to increase their economic integration with Europe, principally through increasing European reliance on Russian energy and resources. We see that already in the deal inked with Gerhard Schroeder for an undersea pipeline connecting the two regions.
Next, they have to increase their cooperation and integration with China, who is really the far stronger of the two. We see that in the regional security pact (SCO) inked several years ago.
Finally, they cannot completely relinquish their influence in the subcontinent. Little more than a year ago, Putin and a high powered delegation visited India with just that goal in mind. Russia desires energy integration, the US counters with weapons integration. The situation in India currently is immensely complex, far beyond the simplicity of a simple slogan, and beyond the range of what I would like to cover here.
I do not believe that Russia can really hope to regain its former empire status, but I believe that, if it plays its cards right, it can achieve far more than the poodle role which the UK now plays to the US.
Its hope lies in the establishment of a multi-polar alliance between Europe, Russia, China, and ideally, the Subcontinent, with control over the former Soviet satelites. Russia might not be the senior partner in such an alliance, but its geographical location as the hub, combined with its vast wealth of mineral resouces, make its role essential in what might be termed a partnerhip of necessity.
The achievement of the above scenario requires extraordinary adroitness, intelligence, and flexibility, but if we have seen anything from Putin, we see that he exemplifies these qualities. He is inadvertently aided by the US inexplicably assuming the former Soviet role of “lumbering bear.”
Let’s return to the current issue, regional elections, and the product that both sides are marketing.
The US, under the direction of George Soros, and his fiefdom of various “Democracy” organizations, initiated the first parry. They created an out of the box solution that could be readily and speedily employed in a cookie-cutter fashion. This consisted of a virtual army of sly western marketing consultants, politicos, and propaganda and media experts, all armed with bottomless barrels of cash. It featured simple (actually simplistic, but who cares?) slogans, bright symbolic colors, the ability to marshall public constituencies, and the western flair for using media to project consensus. (I wouldn’t be surprised if this wasn’t also a laboratory for future western elections. If confidence in the two-party system erodes sufficiently, don’t be surprised to see a cowboy in a white hat riding on to the scene, with a white daisy–symbolizing the ordinary man–braided into his horse’s hair.) Also evident is the Western mastery for deflecting all attention away from substantive issues, like privatisation, to meaningless slogans like cries for democracy.
How is the Russian led team countering this? First, they now have ample historical documentation to convince people that appeals for democracy may sound nice, but offer little good, and possibly much bad.
Putin has spent years refining his own product, and knock-offs of it, little Putins, Putinettes, is what we should expect to see. What are the hallmarks of his product? It is essentially a conservative message. In Russia, he has managed to blend many strands together. First, there is the appeal to nationalism, and former national greatness. This will also be used in the satellites as their position deteriorates. Second, there is the appeal to stability. This is essential in a region that has seen much turmoil. Next, there is the appeal to religion. In Russia, it is not the apocalyptic evangelical extremism that Bush represents, but an old-time conservative appeal to faith to see one through hard times, that is very closely allied with the sense of nationalism. Then, there is the appeal of a strong ruler. Soviets have lived for years under strongmen, and they are not as afraid of them as we are. There are substantial constituencies in all these countries that remember when times were better, and in their analysis, a strong leader is the reason. There is still great sympathy for a return to “communism,” or shall we say, state capitalism in the region. Finally, there is the appeal of competance. Putin has not done so badly in Russia, after the Karsk incident. Everything Bush touches turns to shit.
The Russian product appeals to an older constituency, the Western product appeals to a younger constituency. If the Russian product does not prevail, I believe we will see the intentional incitement of the youth to fascism to counteract, and destabilize Western successes. This will not be to anyone’s advantage. On the brighter side, there is some hope that Russian-influenced governments will be forced to increase pensions and benefits for the elderly, poor, and underprivileged, to counteract the appeal of Western “freedom,” and free market solutions. In these days of rising economic insecurity in the West, it is worth recalling that the former Soviet Union did ensure employment, housing, health care, and pensions, for all– however meager these benefits were, they most assuredly are better than nothing.
All great leaders have more than one strategy, and must remain flexible in light of changing events. This brings us to the second reason for the skewed results. There is an argument to be made that it is in Russia’s interest to discredit “Democracy” and elections altogether. It is also in the US interest to discredit elections when they lose. That certainly indicates more momentum towards discreditation, than accreditation.
Sorry for the length of this post folks. As usual, I sit down to type with two simple resons in my mind, thinking that it might take three paragraphs to explain things. Then I start to think it all out as I type. And this is what results. Ohhhhh…

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 23 2006 18:38 utc | 10

One the other hand, we have to look at what is happening in Palestine, Iraq & Afghanistan and realize that spreading democracy is a noble cause, but also a long, tedious and sometimes confounding process. We certainly cannot expect to impose it by force of arms.

The United States has never promoted any process, anywhere, wherby the true will of the people might prevail. There is nothing confounding about it. First you educate people, then you empower them. The confounding part is to make it look like you are spreading Democracy, while you are engaging in nothing of the sort.
In any event, when so-called “Democracy” does not work, the US, and its so-called “realist” planners have never had any qualms about resorting to dictatorships or theocracies that are able to “support our interests.”
What is “long and tedious” is the eternal struggle between the pathological elite, for whom no amount of wealth and power is ever sufficient, and the excluded masses struggling for what they so naively believe to be their birthright: a humane existence.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 23 2006 18:49 utc | 11

@Malooga – great piece!
Then, there is the appeal of a strong ruler. Soviets have lived for years under strongmen, and they are not as afraid of them as we are.
Make that a thousand years and add Emmanuel Todd’s observation that traditional Russian family structure favors such a construct. Not all (maybe only a few societies) are trending to the equality that is the hallmark of real democracy.

Posted by: b | Mar 23 2006 19:25 utc | 12

“Everything Bush touches turns to shit.”
‘Wily Coyote’, comes to mind.

Posted by: pb | Mar 23 2006 20:37 utc | 13

Cool Hand Lukaschenko remains in power due to Putin’s good graces. He gets his oil and gas at one-third the price that the Ukraine has to pay for it.
I can only assume it is part of the strategy: to set him up as a petty dictator so that Russia can come along some day and “liberate” Byelorussia from his tyranny.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 23 2006 21:39 utc | 14

Malooga:

Sorry for the length of this post folks. As usual, I sit down to type with two simple resons in my mind, thinking that it might take three paragraphs to explain things. Then I start to think it all out as I type. And this is what results.

A fantastic thought provoker IMHO, Malooga. And thanks to b, etc. etc. etc. NOBODY else is doing it like the “Moon”.
Still lurking, after all these years…

Posted by: PeeDee | Mar 23 2006 22:08 utc | 15

we in the west have little to criticise the east with in terms of leaders ; after all what is bush & his crime family, the petty hood berlusconi, the little puppets blair & howard with ther compliant parliaments, press & public
even we in france & germany are enduring movementsto to a form of soft pornographic tyranny – with a class of leaders who are either corrupt, incompetent or whose love of power itself drowns out any sense, planning or vision
in the scheme of things the belarussian bad guy or zimbabwe’ mugabe – are the well trained students of the systems who criticise them

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Mar 23 2006 22:37 utc | 16

great piece, malooga. just one thing i wonder about – your statement about peak oil being 20-30 years off. you have boatloads more experience in oil than i could dream of, but with the reading i have done over the past couple of years or so, i feel that it is upon us much sooner than 20-30 years. my gut tells me it may have already hit. i cannot buy 100% the extremism of michael ruppert, but when it comes to peak oil he does seem to have his shit together. i am ready to be proven wrong, but did stop a moment on your remarks about peak oil. wish i had the time to do a better treatment of this – i.e., the kind of research and analysis you put into your post – but unfortunately, i just don’t have time these days.

Posted by: conchita | Mar 23 2006 22:45 utc | 17

Maybe I should do a primer on Peak Oil some day.
conchita, your gut is wrong.
Ask yourself, is it your gut that is telling you that, or all the scare stories you’ve been reading from Michael Ruppert, et al.? I turn up my thermostat, and I get heat.
Do you really believe that a country as large as China, with that much brainpower, would design a development program based upon a resource that doesn’t exist?
Again I state, 8% of world capacity is being kept off the world market because of the war in Iraq. Think of the implications of this.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 23 2006 23:28 utc | 18

malooga –
implications of 8% = serious profits for exxon mobil, etc. at our and iraqi’s expense.
peak oil primer would be good. jerome has written extensively, but it would be helpful to hear your perspective too.

Posted by: conchita | Mar 23 2006 23:33 utc | 19

The largest profits in the history of the world.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 23 2006 23:37 utc | 20

and it will continue until it is all gone and/or we wise up and look seriously at alternative lifestyles. and that is where i think michael ruppert often has good ideas.

Posted by: conchita | Mar 23 2006 23:42 utc | 21

malooga, i reference
jeremy leggett’s
piece on oil in the independent from january 20th.

Posted by: conchita | Mar 23 2006 23:48 utc | 22

I too could read the Peak Oil sites and parrot them back to you like Jerome does if you’d like. There is a difference betweeen a parrot and a thinker.
Why do people trust Michael Ruppert more than life-long activists who don’t charge for their website or hold est-like seminars about the “coming changes?” Hint: Gary Null, in NYC, was holding the same seminars twenty plus years ago, trying to scare every single New Yorker into fleeing the city to buy marginal farmland in the Catskills.
I’m not arguing that there won’t be shortages and disruptions. It is very politically convenient. I trust you fully understand the magnitude of the crime that was engineered upon California.
Yeah, they finished washing their dishes and they looked at their sponge and saw exactly how much water was left in it. And they are going to make every last drop count as much as possible.
I suggest that people look at energy the same way they look at political activism: a struggle between centralization and decentralization. Especially those who don’t know the story about how Howard Dean sold out Vermont’s energy industry. They won’t let oil run out until they have nuclear firmly back in place, I can guarantee that. As well as coal gasification and the Alberta tarfields, and Venezuela too, if they can get their greasy hands around its neck.
Centralization and decentralization, think about it. That’s where all the money is.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 24 2006 0:34 utc | 23

Very good posts, Malooga!
With respect to Peak Oil, thirty-five years ago, it was part of my high-school curriculum that there were 70 years of oil left. That was approximate, of course. Well, some new fields were found, but also usage increased faster than the models predicted: It about cancels out. So Peak Oil is in no way a new thing, and I can believe Mathew Simmons when he looks at the geological data from Saudi Arabia and concludes we are in Peak Oil now. There are no true surprises here, only the surprise that comes when you choose to forget about something and then years later it comes back and bites you.
Peak Oil does not mean oil has run out–on the contrary, half of it is left! But it does mean that PRODUCTION has peaked, and cannot be much INCREASED. If our civilization were stable, this problem would be well in hand, but since we increase our demand for energy every year, geometrically, we are sure to hit a deep, insoluable crisis sooner or later. We seem to be hitting it sooner–that is, now. US policy certainly seems consistent with this understanding, as every bit of it appears directed at military control of oil producing regions. The US wishes to grab control of all the oil for itself, thereby buying time as well as holding the edge over others as industrial civilization goes into decline. The political conflict between the US and Russia which you have described so clearly here is an inevitable part of this scenerio.
Are the oil companies planning to wring huge profits out of this? For sure. For them, Peak Oil just means a change in market strategy. As long as they can keep us hooked on oil, they can name their price–any drug dealer in the world understands how this works, and any business man in the world envies it.
So this brings me to a point of agreement with you: The key fight is indeed between centralization and decentralization. The oil companies may not know what the energy of the future will be, but they do expect to be controlling it, and to do this it must be centralized, just as oil distribution is centralized. It is no accident that the decentralized passive solar alternatives of the late Carter era were the first things the Reagan administration squelched.
But there is a deeper point, that has everything to do with politics but is not yet politically addressed: Addiction is not a metaphor but a description of the way our civilization requires more energy each year simply to function. You do not need much geology, just mathematics, to understand that this cannot continue and that our civilization will come to an end.
This end will be nothing less than catastrophic, if we cannot give up addiction to energy. Yet this will not be easy.
And where is the drug dealer who wants his junkies to kick their habits? Our governments and our oil companies need for us to cling to our addictions, for our ever-more-wasteful “way of life” to be “non-negotiable.”
Is it?

Posted by: Gaianne | Mar 24 2006 5:43 utc | 24

“Peak Oil does not mean oil has run out–on the contrary, half of it is left! But it does mean that PRODUCTION has peaked, and cannot be much INCREASED.”
Peak Oil primer #1
Originally, Peak Oil meant the point at which half the planet’s supply of oil was consumed. These days it is often confused with “Maximum Sustainable Output,” or how much you can get out of the ground in any given period.
These are really two different concepts with different implications. Imagine a honey jar. When you turn it over, the first half pours out very fast, but it takes a lot of time and scrapeing to get the second half out. Now imagine a plastic gallon jug of milk. The first half pours out slowly, because there is no way for air to enter the bottle, but the second half pours out very quickly.
Read all the PO literature. Even the most ardent proponents trip up on this and use the term interchangeably depending on the argument they chose to make. I find the lack of intellectual rigour troubling.
In any event, it is Maximum Sustainable Output that is really the immediate bottleneck.
Next, one has to distinguish between physical limitations, technical limitations, and geopolitical limitations.
Iraq being essentially off-line now, is a geo-political limitation.
That is a simplified view of the supply side.
Now even with just these three variables it is very hard to predict when Peak Oil will arrive. It might even arrive, and then be overcome for a period, and then arrive again.
There is also the demand side to be taken into account.
Further, as the price of oil rises, more oil becomes economical to extract, and comes on line.
There is no more $20/bl oil left in Texas, but there is $30. At $60-80, tar sand extraction becomes cost-effective. Also, in that range is the huge Falkland Island reserves, which are only just now being assayed.
Hint #2: If you come across a website that says something to the effect of, “The first oil that comes out of a field is sweet, later it turns sour and is very hard to refine.”, which they all seem to, run the other way because you know they are just reprinting boilerplate and have no idea what they are saying.
Oil can get a little more sour as a field gets older, but essentially oil is either sweet or sour on its own; it has nothing to do with the age of the field. Oil, being something that comes out of the earth, varies quite a bit in its composition. I recall from my refining days, that we had a manual which listed somewhere around 250 different major types of oil, along with its constituent components and the essential “recipe” for refining each type.
Oil is not “hard” to refine, because it is not physical labor. Certainly, sour oil is more complex to refine than sweet, and a little more expensive, but refining is a very mature technology. We were refining sour Pennsylvania crude in the 1870’s. There are two slightly different “tracks” you would take, depending whether you were refining sweet or sour crude. The refinery I worked at had the ability to process the sourest crude around–it specialized in the crap no one else wanted. It is no big deal to convert a refinery from sweet to sour crude. To refine most efficiently you might need to build several new process units, but that is all. It could take anywhere from 6 months-2 years to make the conversion.
Anyway, without getting into a whole epistemological discussion about how we “know” something, the point I am trying to make is that if you don’t know it yourself, and it isn’t referenced to a source you trust, then don’t trust what you read on peak oil websites anymore than you would trust what you read on whitehouse.gov. For some reason, the fear these sites arouse tranfixes people and they become very accepting.
I also would not trust anyone who claims to know with absolute certainty when PO will arrive, especially if you don’t see his assumptions and calculations.
I’m not saying that PO won’t arrive, of course it will. And it might arrive sooner rather than later, but it also might not.
Certainly we should be doing everything possible to support the development of cleaner, more decentralized, renewable energy, and even more importantly, conservation.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 24 2006 7:46 utc | 25

Two more minor cavils:
Our demand increases incrementally each year, not geometrically and certainly not exponentially.
It has been US policy to control the world’s petroleum resources since WWII; nothing new here. Strategies have changed, stakes are higher, and we have different opponents.
I agree with your conclusions, but I would put running out of oil #3 on my list of things to worry about:
1) Nuclear annihilation
2) Ecosystem collapse
3) Peak Oil
4) Environmental despoilation
5) Plague or disease, especially within our increasingly limited food-chain, leading to mass famine, or deaths.
6) Nothing to do on Saturday night (Thank god I’m not 20 anymore.)
7) The universe is expanding (Remember the Woody Allen film with the little kid?)

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 24 2006 7:58 utc | 26

Quote:
What we have going on is a replay of the cold war shrunk into a bottle. Instead of the old SU and the US manipulating client states for control of the world, we now have a vastly engorged US, and a regional power, Russia, struggling for control of Northwest Asia.
***
Right! Perfectly said. I have saved your post. It’s really something.
Quote:
we in the west have little to criticise the east with in terms of leaders ; after all what is bush & his crime family, the petty hood berlusconi, the little puppets blair & howard with ther compliant parliaments, press & public
***
So right! I am so disappointed with what I found western “democracy” to look like …so disappointed…

Posted by: vbo | Mar 24 2006 8:17 utc | 27

some great points about peak oil, malooga, gaianne, and all.

Posted by: anna missed | Mar 24 2006 9:30 utc | 28

My primary source on Peak Oil is the Uppsala Hydrocarbon Depletion Study Group headed by Kjell Aleklett. Their research points to a peak (in the maximum output sense) around 2012.
I agree that ecosystem collapse is a greater worry. I read somewhere (in a source I can not remember but at the time found credible) that ‘Peak fish’, the maximum amount of fished fish per year was reached globally in 2004.

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Mar 24 2006 11:32 utc | 29

skod,
Fish are a renewable resource, they just have to be left undisturbed to recover.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 24 2006 16:12 utc | 30

Of course, but that is not very likely to happen soon now is it?
Whales are also a renewable resource but I believe they are far from reaching the population they were before the hunting leading up to peak whale oil in the 19th century.

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Mar 24 2006 17:28 utc | 31

skod,
agreed, but allowing fish stocks to replensish is a lot quicker and easier than growing dense jungles, allowing them to rot and be buried under layers of sediment for millions of years to turn into oil…

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 24 2006 18:51 utc | 32

Agreed to that.
The party seems to have moved on, maybe we should too 🙂

Posted by: a swedish kind of death | Mar 24 2006 20:12 utc | 33

“If the Organization of Herring Exporting Countries(OHEC) were to institute a herring embargo, as has been suggested by recent intelligece assessments, the United States would regard such an action as deliberatively provocative.”
I’m Back.
Posted by: Colin Powell | Sep 3, 2004 2:28:10 PM | #

Posted by: Colin Powell (again) | Mar 24 2006 20:24 utc | 34

@ ralphieboy,
I am very concerned about fish. Our Maryland rivers are producing diseased and cancerous fish, [and they don’t have major industry on those rivers?]; our estuary [Chesapeake Bay] is dying to the point where local oysters are becoming endangered/extinct; farmed fish are fed chemical foods; and Maryland has the highest human cancer rates in the nation. The ocean’s acidity levels are rising; the coral reefs ae dying off; the sea’s basic food chain is threatened.
I can see alternatives to oil-based energy but not to fish. Fish is more important to the earth than oil.

Posted by: gylangirl | Mar 24 2006 21:09 utc | 35

gylan,
We never used to worry too much about forests or fields, once we had used them up, we just moved on to new ones. It wasn’t until the XXth century that we started bucking up against the limits of exploitation and started to give some thought to conservation.
As for the seas, we have given them very little thought or consideration at all. They are about to pay us back for that: the North Sea and the Mediterranean, Europe’s two major fishing grounds, are at the edge of depletion.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 24 2006 21:19 utc | 36

skod-
I know you are not Norwegian, but I most confess that I am seriously worried that we might soon be hitting “peak lutefisk.” Please keep me informed if you hear anything about this matter in your neck of the woods.
🙂 (-: 🙂 (-: 🙂 (-: 🙂 (-: 🙂 (-: 🙂 (-:
On a more serious note, “peak sustainable fish harvest” is a very serious matter with massive humanitarian implications. It alone could trigger the collapse of the capitalist system and the possible imposition of a worldwide police state.

Posted by: Malooga | Mar 24 2006 22:14 utc | 37

first, malooga and gaianne, thank you for writing about peak oil. i have read much of it before and do not disagree, except to say that malooga is more of an optimist about the time frame than i. i do recommend jeremy leggett’s piece on oil in the independent (link in comment above) – he is far from a michael ruppert.
there was a very good diary on kos a few weeks ago about our oil addiction which included some easily accomplishable lifestyle changes. worth reading.
about diversity – good piece here from the bbc – Life’s diversity ‘being depleted’ by Tim Hirsch. nothing in it to make you feel better except that it is in the traditional media finally and maybe people will read it, think about it, and even act. maybe.
sorry i haven’t summarized any of these links. just no time.

Posted by: conchita | Mar 24 2006 22:30 utc | 38

p.s. malooga, jill richardson on kos titled her diary “No Jerome – THIS is What Oil Addiction Looks Like”.

Posted by: conchita | Mar 24 2006 22:32 utc | 39

The other question is when do we hit peak oil demand? The third world is becoming our chief competitor for a limited resource, much to the delight of Saudi Arabia and Venezuela.

Posted by: ralphieboy | Mar 25 2006 6:46 utc | 40