Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 18, 2005
What You Read …

NEW BEDFORD (RBN) – A senior at UMass Dartmouth was visited by federal agents two months ago, after he requested a copy of George Orwell’s tome on totalitarianism called "1984."
Two history professors at UMass Dartmouth, Brian Glyn Williams and Robert Pontbriand, said the student told them he requested the book through the UMass Dartmouth library’s interlibrary loan program.

The student, who was completing a research paper on Communism for Professor Pontbriand’s class on fascism and totalitarianism, filled out a form for the request, leaving his name, address, phone number and Social Security number. He was later visited at his parents’ home in New Bedford by two agents of the Department of Homeland Security, the professors said.

The professors said the student was told by the agents that the book is on a "watch list," and that his background, which included significant time abroad, triggered them to investigate the student further.
"I tell my students to go to the direct source, and so he asked for the official version of the book," Professor Pontbriand said. "Apparently, the Department of Homeland Security is monitoring inter-library loans, because that’s what triggered the visit, as I understand it."

Agents’ visit chills UMass Dartmouth senior

Comments

I’m a bit confused regarding the details here, not that the details are what is important. The stories I have read about this say that it was Mao’s “Little Red Book” that was flagged. I understand the irony (if irony was the intent) to say that it was “1984, but if it is meant satirically, I think we should be clearer on that point. In some cases, changing a detail like the name of the book or substituting “Communism” for “Fascism and Totalitarianism” can be used to make a point… but in this particular case you don’t need to make that point. Nobody is going to be taking over the world because they got a copy of Mao’s book in their hand and to send the feds sniffing around because someone used a library speaks for itself.
I don’t care if it was Dr. Seuss or “Build Your Own Terrorist Splinter Cell for Fun and Profit” that got flagged; we said we weren’t doing this kind of thing (and we don’t torture, either)… and if we were, nobody is allowed to tell you. Not that I am objecting to this story getting leaked, mind you, but it has been leaked deliberately. With Bush’s approval ratings already in the dumper, I can’t seem to suss out why they would want this story in the papers at this time.

Posted by: Monolycus | Dec 18 2005 14:33 utc | 1

Yeah, I saw the same story as Monolycus above that is was ‘The Little Red Book’. Is this the same story? Idiotic in either case, or both. Now, if it was ‘My Pet Goat’….

Posted by: Neil Shakespeare | Dec 18 2005 14:58 utc | 2

Sorry, should have clicked on the link first. My apologies.

Posted by: Neil Shakespeare | Dec 18 2005 15:00 utc | 3

Mono, Bushie doesn’t want the story in the paper. It looks to me like elites have lost faith in Bushie and change is a commin. While some like tweety Mathews will still shill, I think the game is up.
When stories start to be planted like the NSA spying, the failure to get the PAtriot Act through and the student story, elites have lost faith and backing has been pulled. I believe the first place the change will start is in the US house. More money is flowing to dems now and the corruption of Delay is taking its toll in the headlines every day. Yep, elites are fed up and the momentum is for change.
Now, the question is will the change that comes make a difference or will things remain the same with a just a different party name.

Posted by: jdp | Dec 18 2005 15:01 utc | 4

I still say they were recruiting. Lots of the neo-con right have a deep love of Leninist stategery.
Maybe they thought they’d identified a budding David Horowitz.
In other news…
Anyone else waiting for Christopher Hitchens to explain why we should trust Bush with spying in the US w/o judicial oversight?

Posted by: Porco Rosso | Dec 18 2005 15:49 utc | 5

Conundrum Wrapped in a Riddle
Life today is so much a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.
The pond is frozen an inch thick, yet yesterday I found a
blooming pink snapdragon in the garden. The moon is
high and the sun is low, heading towards solstice, and
yet this morning, there was a fat robin in the yard. Spring!
An overwhelming weight of evidence shows George Bush
not only acted on bad intelligence, but gynned that all up,
“sexed up” Downing Street, “yellow caked” Nigeria, and
was warned as early as 1998 by credible sources that
OBL was planning to hijack commercial airliners. Yet we
are still there, thrashing through one pedantic highschool
charade after another, killing and torturing more innocents
than Saddam ever did in his entire thirty years in power,
paving the way for a total domestic lockdown in the US.
“All I want for Christmas is my $100,000,000,000,” George
sings, as though the $80,000,000,000 Congress gifted him
in October wasn’t sufficient. How the hell do you spend an
$80,000,000,000 treasure in only three months? There’s
maybe 150,000 troops at $2000 a month and say $200 a
day per diem expenses, although that’s being generous,
and let’s say we add 60% for their veteran’s benefits and
25% for employer paid benefits, that’s $4,500,000,000.
Add in 100,000 mercenaries, by various estimates, making
$800 a day, by various accounts, and their per diem, but no
other benefits, that’s $9,000,000,000, twice what our troops
are making for making a show of force while mercenaries
are deployed in safer assassination and torture roles.
And there’s the equipment fuel override, at $3 a gallon, and
wear and tear, but remember, the chain of command, and
the equipment capital costs are all carried under the $1/2T
Pentagon budget already. Let’s say three months of flying
helicopter and blowing up $1M missiles costs $10B in
three months. I would have a very hard time believing that
figure could possibly be that high, but let’s use it.
Troops $4.5B in three months.
Mercenaries $9.0B in three months
Equipment, Fuel, Ammo $10.0B in three months
That’s less than $25B. Where the *hell* did the other
$65B go?! Baaksheesh? Civil reconstruction?! We know
the reconstruction contracts are separately funded and
amount to less than $2B accomplished. Where the *hell*
did the other $65B go? With a total *ANNUAL* expense
of only $100B to prosecute the war in Iraq, again, over
and above the $450B the Pentagon sucks down to sit
there along the Potomac and process defense contracts,
where the *hell* is that $100B Christmas present going?!
How the *hell* did FEMA spend $32B in New Orleans
with nothing to show for it? Where in the *hell* is the
$25B FEMA/DHS gets paid *every year* for emergency
preparations? What the*hell* is Congress doing to US?
Where the *hell* ares our hard-earned, blood taxes going?
How are we going to pay down our now $8,000B deficit?!
And how the *hell* is that ‘sustained economic recovery’?!
Is the Executive diverting our Iraq payments into the US
stock and bond markets to keep them afloat in the face
of overwhelming pull-out by ASEAN, Gulf emirates and EU?
Are we bankrupt, and already rolling that bankrupcy over?
Is DHS taking over domestic intelligence in order to suppress that knowledge.
Clik … clik … ‘testing, testing’, my phone went last week, somebody whispering on the line.
Are we being bugged by FBI/DHS, preparatory to rousting and then FEMA internment-camping all US Bush policy dissenters and refusniks?
It’s a conundrum wrapped in a riddle.

Posted by: Loose Shanks | Dec 18 2005 17:31 utc | 6

The most distressing thing about this little tale of life in early 21st century USA is that the protaganists fail to comprehend exactly how cliched, to the point of irony, their actions are.
An amerikan artist needs to describe the conversation between the agents in the car on the way to the hit er book delivery.
Was their discussion purely prosaic a sort of civil servant take on the banality of the hitters in ‘Pulp Fiction’.
Perhaps it was a classic male ego relationship where the agent at G-n level undermined his superior a G-x with tales of his sexual prowess or the number of wins he’d had in the 2nd Homeland Security petanque tournament.
Maybe one was a true believer while his partner a compulsory transferee from the security division of the now defunct department of the environment hadn’t drunk the kool aid since his ‘ships in the night affair’ with a well built radical geologist he had met when working undercover at a climate change conference.
Hopefully the interaction will be more stimulating and less cliched than any of those well used devices so that something useful can come out of this sad chronicle of intolerance.
Speaking of intolerance the Fox take on the NYT story of domestic spying was strictly ‘shoot the messenger stuff’ eg Why did the NYT who have been sitting on this story for a year choose to release it the day the Patriot Act was to be debated. Yeah right the Fox trots didn’t stetch the viewers credulity by suggesting that the story should have been published before the last election, they just insinuated that the NYT was a bunch of knee jerk faggot liberals by running the story at all.
All good stuff really I mean only the fleas are going to buy that anyway. More insidious was the BBC’s interview of Colin Powell by David Frost.
A sycophantic meeting of the mutual appreciation society of a pair of bores.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 18 2005 17:36 utc | 7

Debs: Powell went to David Frost for a Larry King treatment? Powell is on his second step of his rehabilitation tour. First he gets flunky to gossip that Powell and gang never were into the W/Cheney better red than dead plan. Now he’s seeking a safe venue to air his deepest thoughts and views. It’s necessary to get out of the aspens in order to start collecting the consulting fees, board of director payments and speaking fees while the tax rates on the high earners are still low.

Posted by: christofay | Dec 19 2005 4:13 utc | 8

Get on the list,…Read:
“Gangs of America” : the rise of corporate power and the disabling of democracy / Nace, Ted.

Posted by: pb | Dec 19 2005 17:40 utc | 9

gangs of america is free online as a pdf

Posted by: b real | Dec 19 2005 17:46 utc | 10

@christofay
Yep he was obviously angling to get himself ahead of McCain by 08. By having a test flight on the BBC he could float a few balloons in the hope than none would be popped. I couldn’t watch too much of it because it stictly vomit the lunch stuff but Frost wasn’t gonna pop anything but his flybuttons as they congratulated each other.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 19 2005 18:49 utc | 11

Ireally wonder how little the blogsphere cares about this. Sure, many have posted or linked the piece, but where are the questions?
What the article implies:
There is an automated database list comparing the inter-library exchanges requests to an title/authors list AND to a person list, of people who traveled somewhere.
Who is running this? Why is the FBI following up a simple historic book request?
If they do this, do you really thing they will miss you if you
order any book on that list through Amazon or if you get it on Ebay?
I was not joking when I put in 1984 instead of the little red book.
They are connecting travel logs to books and follow up with FBI visits. Billmon is, as usual, right to compare this to the Sowjets.

Posted by: b | Dec 19 2005 22:24 utc | 12

Dear Moonbats in Alabama,
Anyone with a brain could do some research on a story before they post it. Then of course stir up a fire storm afterwards with wonderful comments from fellow lame brains.
The student, who was completing a research paper on Communism for Professor Pontbriand’s class on fascism and totalitarianism, filled out a form for the request, leaving his name, address, phone number and Social Security number. He was later visited at his parents’ home in New Bedford by two agents of the Department of Homeland Security, the professors said.
a). If one were to call the Libary, they would have found out that UMass libary does not ask for SSN numbers.
b). Reporter, or Professor didn’t ask parents or Homeland Security if Student was visited.
c). Reporter didn’t follow up on story, if one were to ask Homeland Security if such “Watch list” of books existed he would have found out that NO it does not.
d). Searching the internet, one can find the “little red book” easily at Ebay, or at Amazon
e). Entire story is a Hoax
f). Progressives are so paranoid

Posted by: grrrrrr | Dec 24 2005 14:00 utc | 13

@mr. grrrrrrr
Can you be so sure, that the hoax
is not a hoax? Ever hear of double or triple agents? Herein lies the problem…of games without end.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 24 2005 14:05 utc | 14

ok – it was hoax – Federal agents’ visit was a hoax – Student admits he lied about Mao book
But what fact, that this was believable at all, tell?

Posted by: b | Dec 24 2005 16:29 utc | 15

Blame hoax on the lowly student “bad Apple”, while the likely Homeland Security agent “professors” Robert A. Pontbriand ’85, psychology, accepted a position with Lockheed Martin, IS Defense in Alexandria, VA, with the Dept of Defense and Homeland Security. Robert is an active member of the US Army Reserve. and Brian Glyn Williams, whose background smells strongly of OGA (other govermental agency) could very well had cooked up and planted this story in an effort to dupe/ridicule critics of Patriot Act and recent NSA and Pentagon secret spying revelations look credulous, and also conflate this alleged incident with real serious domestic spying events

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Dec 24 2005 16:45 utc | 16

Mssr. grrrrrrr’s outline above is working from a conclusion (actually, two; points E and F respectively) to supporting arguments rather than the other way around and therefore only the illusion of deductive reasoning is presented. This does not necessarily mean that his or her conclusions are incorrect; only that they are a priori suppositions and are not logically derived. Points C and D are entirely irrelevant (an obtainable item could be watch listed from multiple sources, and a denial from Homeland Security means precisely nothing), although points A and B are both valid observations.
I remarked in my first comment above that something was fishy about this story. Specifically: section 215 of the USAPATRIOT Act provides an effective gag order upon those who have been investigated. Ergo, in a Catch-22 situation, the fact that we were even made aware of a specific case casts doubt upon the legitimacy of that case.
I then tried to apply the principle of qui bono to determine who would want to promulgate the story at a time when it seemed counter-intuitive for the administration to do so. Unca’s “paranoid” interpretation fits the facts as we know them, and I am content with that explanation. The story does seem to have been generated with the intent to defame critics of domestic spying.

Posted by: Monolycus | Dec 24 2005 17:54 utc | 17

In response to Uncle $cam’s post;
Blame hoax on the lowly student “bad Apple”, while the likely Homeland Security agent “professors” Robert A. Pontbriand ’85, psychology, accepted a position with Lockheed Martin, IS Defense in Alexandria, VA, with the Dept of Defense and Homeland Security. Robert is an active member of the US Army Reserve. and Brian Glyn Williams, whose background smells strongly of OGA (other govermental agency) could very well had cooked up and planted this story in an effort to dupe/ridicule critics of Patriot Act and recent NSA and Pentagon secret spying revelations look credulous, and also conflate this alleged incident with real serious domestic spying events
There you go and prove my point about paranoid progressives, Mr. $cams entire post is full of it…
Now the hoax was made up by the Professor to ward off critics of FICA and the Patriot Act, when it was used by Senator Kennedy in the Boston Globe to critize the Administration, and on Progressive sites such as this for days.

Posted by: grrrrrr | Dec 24 2005 21:54 utc | 18

FISA,…not FICA, tax time on my mind I guess.

Posted by: grrrrrr | Dec 24 2005 22:06 utc | 19

well, grrr, is the “hoax” supposed to vindicate for you the bush admin is not culpable for human rights & civil liberties abuses? what’s the point with your exciting admonishment here?

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 25 2005 0:30 utc | 20

@slothrop the point is exactly what has happened. Who really knows what happened? What is the truth? If all reality is subjective, then, as monolycus pointed out we should look at who benefits from this story. Consider the outcome and not fall into the corporates’ trap of getting caught up in the process.
One of the outcomes has been that it has supplied the secret police with a ‘paper tiger’ as everyone in here apart from the Lincoln employee has correctly suggested.
That is rather than have to deal with actual instances of people whose lives have been ruined by the secret police investigation of their actions on specious grounds, a large amount of the newsworthy life of the domestic spying scandal raised by the NYT has been wasted by discussing something that subsequently turned out to be a furphy.
However this outcome would have been more effective if it had happened about 24-48 hours earlier. Back when it was a hotter topic and when more people would have been paying attention rather than distracted by the xtian festivities.
I don’t wanna get too far into a process that none of us could ever hope to learn the ‘truth’ of. If it had been a set-up then the story would have been refuted earlier. Something that would have also happened if the secret police had been certain right from the start that the story was untrue. Ergo at least some within the secret police felt that the story could be factual. They weren’t able to dismiss the story as a complete set up.
In other words the secret police felt something like this could have happened which in terms of outcomes, has exactly the same effect for people concerned about civil liberties, as if it did happen.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 25 2005 5:36 utc | 21

well, grrr, is the “hoax” supposed to vindicate for you the bush admin is not culpable for human rights & civil liberties abuses? what’s the point with your exciting admonishment here? posted by slothrop…
The basic crux of the “hoax” was to point out that yes virginia civil liberties were abused, a kind of gotcha Bushies. Visiting progressive sites such as this one saw comments like “Oh my God”,
The Secret Police are monitoring us, listening to our phone conversations etc…
Over at Kos, the extreme arm of the Progressive party the comments were anger, swearing, the typical Bush is a nazi post. Now they are calling for the Students head…ha too funny.
Civil Liberties become a calling card to those who disagree with Bush, of which were used during a time of a National crisis i.e. post 9/11. How many more terrorist plans were stopped via FISA act?
In the 90’s it was used after Okl. city bombing by Janet Reno, again in 1998…Carter, Nixon, Reagan, Truman, Kennedy, Roosvelt, et al.
Senator Schumer’s staff gathered private information on Lt. gov. Steele to use against his up coming election, yet I have yet to see anyone call him on invading Steele’s “Civil Liberties”.
How about Newt’s civil liberties when his phone conversation was recorded by a “So called” elderly couple, who handed it over to a opposing democrat congressman? Where was the outrage then?
What about using the Oval office to issue the IRS to go after those that dared to speak up against you and your wife…You know of whom I’m speaking of.
The double standard is blaring, in your face, yet the outrage is silent when your side does it…This is my point, the false outrage of the extreme left, protecting civil liberties.
Human abuses: Lawyer for Saddam is Ramsey Clark, head of ANSWER of who is suppose to be for the little people. Protecting rights.
Who protected the people that Saddam tortured, raped and murdered during his oppressive regime? Where was Ramsey Clark and his people during this time? Demanding that the US government and the UN stop the oil for food program. Not demanding that Saddam step down, go to court for Human rights abuses.
Have you ever read Saddam’s torture methods? Here is one…Depending on the offense, you were either put head first or feet first into a giant shredder.
Vindication will someday come to the Iraqi people…Vindication will soon come to the families, friends and loved ones of the almost 3000 innocent lives that were lost on 9/11.

Posted by: grrrrrr | Dec 25 2005 13:28 utc | 22

whoops, grrrrr, be very careful about running around the Internet spreading unfounded propaganda.
How about:
The horror of one of Saddam’s execution methods made a powerful pro-war rallying cry – but the evidence suggests it never existed
Since you are evidently some kind of gullible type who doesn’t check ALL news reports / propaganda carefully, and since you seem to be trapped in some bubble that has you thinking that everyone you’re posting your comments to is trapped in the same dreary cocoon where tedious bickering about equally tedious American domestic politics is the be all and end all of discussion it’s safe enough to make a reasonably accurate assessment about where you’re coming from. Unfortunately for you, with a mind like yours you’re likely to stay there.

Posted by: Hatchet | Dec 25 2005 14:17 utc | 23

grrr
The U.S. has been a force of terror in the world for most of its existence. The genocide of indigenes and the enslavement of Africans was a good start in the career of a pathological murderer; the firebombing of Germany and then The Bombs; the murder of central americans for bananas; the serial destruction of nascent democracies in Haiti, Brazil, Chile; the murder of millions of SE Asians; now the murder of several hundred thousand Iraqis…
Vindication will someday come to the Iraqi people…Vindication will soon come to the families, friends and loved ones of the almost 3000 innocent lives that were lost on 9/11.
Yes, yes. Well said, grrr.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 25 2005 17:03 utc | 24

I’m about to be visited by families and friends for dinner, and I will endure three hours or so of other grrrs. I love them, but am terrified they believe, against all the grave facts of history and with all the clumsy courage of their mindless hearts, we are all good people who want the Iraqis to be “free.”
Sweet baby jesus.

Posted by: slothrop | Dec 25 2005 17:13 utc | 25

@Mssr. grrrrrrrr
I’ve no desire to be dragged into an unproductive argument nor to prolong any arguments here that you might be having with others, but I do have a few observations about what has been said so far. I hope that you accept them in the spirit of friendly criticism that they are intended.
You have reiterated the thesis that the Left are paranoid and hypocritical. This may very well be so; I have yet to find any group of people that are entirely free from those qualities. But the arguments you have raised to illustrate your thesis have so far been either irrelevant or fallacious.
In the case of civil liberties, you cite the instances of Gingrich and Lt. gov. Steele. Neither of those cases (if the details you present are accurate) are violations of civil liberties. The offenses (if they occurred as you have described them; I’m not familiar with the details) were to Gingrich and Steele qua public officials and not as private citizens. There are instances in which a public official may have their private rights impeded, but neither of those cases contain the necessary criteria. The difference is that we on the Left tend to hold public officials and corporations to a higher standard than we do the largely voiceless private citizens.
As for Mssr. Hussein’s alleged atrocites, I am quite sure you do not want to travel down that particular road if it is the Left you wish to implicate. We have heard of these atrocities since at least the time of Bush the Elder, but it has been the Right who has facilitated them (such as turning the other way in 1988 when Hussein gassed the Kurds with nerve toxins purchased from Bush the Elder and Donald Rumsfeld) or invented them from whole cloth (such as the notorious lie about Kuwaiti babies ripped from incubators). Telling tales of “atrocities” such as these in order to justify invading soveriegn nations, killing innocents and engaging in unprecedented war profiteering are not the sorts of examples you want on the table when you are making a case against the Left unless you really believe that the 17 years and counting of fallout from those hoaxes perpetrated by the Right are in any way comparable to a college student making up a story about being visited from Homeland Security. You’d find yourself in a pretty tiny minority if that were the case.
What is obvious, though, is that you have arrived at your conclusion (viz. the Left are paranoid and hypocritical) and now are in the circuitous process of finding reasons to justify what you already believe. That doesn’t interest me. What interests me is why (as slothrop has already asked), you are so vociferous about making that claim here. If we are as hypocritical and paranoid as you have repeatedly stated, what is your aim in continuing to say that in this particular forum? If we knew what it is that you were looking for, we might better be able to accomodate you. Without that disclosure, many of us are left to assume that you are just looking for a pointless fight and (sadly) will do our best to fulfill that wish.

Posted by: Monolycus | Dec 25 2005 18:30 utc | 26

To me this all seems a lot like the forged document that was given to CBS news concerning the chimperor’s work habits in the Texas Air National Guard. The document was proven to be a forgery and that is what the PTB focused on and were quite successful in discrediting the opposition all the while ignoring that the contents and overall validity of the document were indeed true.
These guys are good, very good at what they do and I reckon we are seeing the same thing with the UMass student and his tales of Big Brother visits.
ps, I especially liked Debs’ characterization of grrrr being a Lincoln employee. ;>)

Posted by: dan of steele | Dec 25 2005 19:33 utc | 27

The difference is that we on the Left tend to hold public officials and corporations to a higher standard than we do the largely voiceless private citizens.
This statement is not a pure Leftist idology; conservatives, democrats both hold public officials and corporations to a higher standard.
Yet in the next breath you stated “Mssr. Hussein’s alleged atrocites”
Yes they are alleged by “Voiceless private citizens”, often with scars to prove it, and no one has spoken for them…
Believe me I’m not one who wants our military to willynilly jump into every fight throughout our world, Kosovo, Somilia, Rwanda, Nigeria…But I am passionate in our fight to free the Iraqi people from the years of oppression, largely ignored by activist who has made statements like “Saddam is better because he had healthcare”.
This is when I departed from the Left, no longer a donor to GreenPeace, after I found out that the administration lived in luxury houses. Save the Dolfins, RainForest, et al…after they started sending me credit card applications.
I understand your point of view, anarchy, rage against the machine, butt the system…been there, done that. Reality based my views have changed, the so called “Secret Police” are not going to visit sites like this and monitor every word typed.
I came upon this site because the word got out about the student that was visited by “men in black” your reaction here was “A” typical of those in other extreme leftist sites…I wondered if I posted something about it being a Hoax, if you would issue a retraction, correction.
Nope…instead majority came out to play in the reindeer games, the typical “Area 51ers'”….

Posted by: grrrrrr | Dec 26 2005 12:33 utc | 28

To LooseShanks:
Please tell me you misspoke when you stated that George Bush was warned as early as 1998 by credible sources that OBL was planning to hijack a commercial airliner. Where was Bush at that time? He certainly was NOT in the White House. Bill Clinton was. I don’t think Bush was being briefed on OBL while he was the Governor of Texas.
To Slothrop:
When you bring up the firebombing of Germany, I think about my German neighbor. She’s about 4’9″ tall, in her 80’s and “was air controller” during W.W.II. She would tell you about the fact that she’s living the American dream and how grateful she is. She’s an amazing lady.
As for the Iraqi people today, I don’t read or listen to any information about Iraq except information provided BY Iraqis. Their perspective is the only one that matters to me. More people should do a little research to find out what THEY think instead of rambling on and on with people they agree with, but can’t learn anything new from. Or wasting time paying attention to the media.
To Monolycus:
You really should do a little research about Gingrich and Steele. I’ll address the Steele issue, since that’s my field. His CREDIT REPORT was obtained without his consent. That is against the law. His opponents ADMITTED doing this. They have yet to apologize to him, much less be held accountable. Will they be held accountable? Probably not, but only because the Lt. Governor has too much class.
His face was also printed on a leftist blog and was distorted to look like little black sambo. People like to throw the word “racist” around every time somebody disagrees with a minority position. I do not use the term lightly, but this was about as racist as I’ve ever seen and has NO place in honest political campaigns.

Posted by: BitchOnWheels | Dec 26 2005 13:52 utc | 29

@BOW
“I’ll address the Steele issue, since that’s my field. His CREDIT REPORT was obtained without his consent. That is against the law. His opponents ADMITTED doing this. They have yet to apologize to him, much less be held accountable. Will they be held accountable? Probably not, but only because the Lt. Governor has too much class.
His face was also printed on a leftist blog and was distorted to look like little black sambo. People like to throw the word “racist” around every time somebody disagrees with a minority position. I do not use the term lightly, but this was about as racist as I’ve ever seen and has NO place in honest political campaigns.”

Obtaining and using an individual’s credit report would be a violation of that person’s civil liberties. It is up to Mr. Steele to pursue that litigation if he has the means or to avail himself to a group like the ACLU to work on his behalf if he does not. The issue of having too much “class” to pursue justice is misleading; if he is interested in justice at all, then he is obligated to pursue it if there has been a violation against himself or anyone else.
The second case, the website caricature, is not a violation of civil liberties; it’s just tastelessness… but the first amendment does not guarantee the right to only tasteful speech. Production of unflattering caricatures of public figures (as well as circulating unflattering, unretouched photos of them) is a manipulative, but legal, practice that generally falls under the umbrella of satire. The only crime there is against our sensibilities.
@Mssr. grrrrrrr
I am not about to fault a genuine passion for helping the Iraqi people, nor do I believe that no torture occured under the Hussein regime. However, US “help” has included burning the entire population of Falujah with white phosphorous and saturating the country with depleted uranium which will ensure future generations of suffering. I doubt that the average Iraqi would have asked for that kind of “help”.
Further, let us never forget that these same individuals who are now screaming with feigned conviction about the pressing need to “liberate” those poor Iraqis had no problem torturing them when Hussein was playing ball with us against the Iranians… they even provided the material support for him to do so. And now, these same people who want to “liberate” the Afghans from the Taliban have no problem supporting President Karimov in order to accomplish that.
In that light, your outrage against the outraged is every bit as hypocritical as that which you are decrying. So yes, I guess I am saying that your righteous anger is disingenuous (or, if you are a card player, I am calling bullshit). No village ever had to be destroyed to be “saved”, and I am saying flatly that if you are truly driven by a need to liberate and vindicate the Iraqi people, you could not have picked a less appropriate pony to bet on than the present US administration to accomplish that mission.

Posted by: Monolycus | Dec 26 2005 16:37 utc | 30

C’mon guys n gals don’t waste yer time. If grr isn’t a Lincoln employee he’s a slut who does it for free and there’s absolutely no point in engaging with him because in typical troll like fashion he fails to address any of the valid points anyone raises and goes off on a tangent usually with soupcon of personal attack like
‘activist who has made statements like “Saddam is better because he had healthcare”.
A statement which none of us have ever seen before unless it was another of grr’s postings. My personal favourite is:
“no longer a donor to GreenPeace, after I found out that the administration lived in luxury houses. Save the Dolfins, RainForest, et al…after they started sending me credit card applications”
That one I like cause over the years I’ve shared houses with what grrr’s employers would consider to be greenpeace bosses or commissars and one thing they don’t have is much in the way of luxury. One of them was a single mum who worked all day at a paying gig to enable her to devote all the rest of her time and resources to greenpeace. At night as well as writing reports, organising conferences, devising actions and generally slogging her ass off to keep her ‘region on the road’ she would have to handwash all her son’s diapers. When someone saw how tired she was getting they tried to make her take a packet of nightime diapers you know the disposable ones. This was just so she could get enough sleep because you don’t have to get up a few times in the night to change the baby. Someone else also went to the trouble of working out how small the difference in environmental impact would be. She wouldn’t wear it though she said something like “Jeez if I worried about the environmental impact of my boy I wouldn’t have had him. The point is that I can’t expect others to make as little mess of this planet as possible if I don’t do it myself.”
I don’t wanna say much more about it lest she become identifiable to grrr’s employers but she’s responsible for greenpeace action on huge swathes of the globe now and she hasn’t changed one iota.
Greenpeace are an easy target for the ‘lets make a dollar now fuck tommorow’ brigade because they are effective. If the energy corporations spent a fraction of the money they have blown on trying to discredit greenpeace on environmental conservation they would find themselves in much less trouble with ordinary people. But they think the way to fix ‘things’ is to hire some whore like one of grrr’s bosses to talk about how he/she may be a geologist raping the planet but he/she went to woodstock and may have smoked pot once. They try to plunder Mr Garcia’s ‘if they don’t smoke don’t trust em’ and make it; ‘Trust them if they say they smoked once’, or belonged to the left once, or were a homosexual until they found jesus.
Then oil companies wonder why their credibility is down there with slimy, combed over, pimply assed politicians.
Maybe I’m wrong and Grrr is doing this for free in which case he’s even sillier. If he was prepared to betray his culture, his future and his planet for money that would put him in the Dubya “what’s history we’ll all be dead brigade?” That would be selfish but almost rational.
On the other hand if he is laboriously tracking down blogs that are expressing concern about the way that the USA has started doing to it’s own citizens what it has been doing to the rest of the world, just to use all the tired tricks of phoney debate, apparently for no purpose other than to see if anything will rise to the bait, he’s being fucked over sans vaseline. Perhaps he enjoys that. Some do I hear.
I really love the way that ‘wingers claim to have been a ‘lefty’ once. Half of BushCo were trots in their day. Well according to their stories anyway. Mostly they were power hungry dolts who couldn’t cope with the sacrifice expected of a leader on the left. They scuttled to the right where leadership without sacrifice is applauded. Get it while you can cause that gig is over and many can expect a future behind bars.
P.s. I know this is already too long but what odds can we get that if the lame growler does respond it will only be in the form of a personal attack mixed with a more general attack on the ‘left’. In other words there will be no response to any of the valid points that other posters raised because he has no response to their logic other than to splash vitriol about. And yes, you pale shadow of a human I’m well aware that I am doing exactly the same myself.
People who come into MoA and make sensible well argued points can expect to be treated with respect but those who use this forum to regurgitate BushCo talking points interspersed with emotive bullshit can expect to be repaid in kind.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Dec 27 2005 7:35 utc | 31

We are planning to Storm the WhiteHouse the week of March 15th to remind the BushCo. that we are sick of their corporate killing machine that uses our budget to make exxon and halliburton richer, not to mention Carlyle Group and the others.
Even though they don’t seem to care that the U.N. called it an illegal war and now wants Abu Ghraib closed, we are also sending an SOS to the U.N., because they should help us kick the Bush Regime Out.
http://www.PoliticalCooperative.Org
http://www.CitySites.com
Peace & Information

Posted by: Darrow Boggiano | Feb 20 2006 5:46 utc | 32