I’d still like to hear a plausible explanation for why Fitzgerald was talking to Bush’s lawyer last week.
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November 1, 2005
WB: Rove’s Other Lie
Comments
I agree that it seems unlikely that Fitzgerald is taking this all the way to the President. There have been no signs of that at all.
The only reason I can think of for Fitzgerald meeting with George’s criminal lawyer was as a curtesy to the President to let him know what further indictments are likely. This would only seem necessary or called for if Rove or Cheney (or both) is likely to be nailed. I doubt such a conversation would be called for if it was Fleischer or Hannah or some even Hadley… well… maybe Hadley. He is the NSA after all.
The only other possible exlanation given what we know is that it was a request for some additional piece of information but that seems unlikely at this point.
Peace,
Andrew
Posted by: Andrew C. White | Nov 1 2005 17:33 utc | 1
So why did he go?
The most obvious reason is to request another interview with Bush. He needs more information.
It may be that there are some discrepencies in Bush’s testimony.
Or he may want to ask for Bush’s cooperation regarding Libby.
Since Libby has refused to negotiate for lesser charges, Fitzgerald might wonder if Libby has a get out of jail free card. He might have gone to Bush’s lawyer to request an interview with Bush to find out if he has made any sort of promise to Libby regarding a pardon or executive clemency. Alternatively, he could request a meeting with Bush to ask him to cooperate with the investigation by making a public statement that he will never pardon Libby.
Posted by: Alan S | Nov 1 2005 17:52 utc | 3
The most obvious reason is to request another interview with Bush. He needs more information.
This seems a lot more likely than any kind of “courtesy call” — either to tell Bush’s mouthpiece that no further indictments are coming or that they are. That would be unethical and probably a serious violation of DOJ procedural rules.
Another interview with Bush would be a very good sign. It would mean the investigation isn’t over and isn’t limited to the vice president’s office.
Posted by: Billmon | Nov 1 2005 18:05 utc | 4
seymour hersh made some remarks in canada that (considering his sources) restore some hope that fitzgerald’s investigation is only the beginning:
Seymour Hersh, one of journalism’s crankier bulldogs, was in an upbeat mood. At least for him. A confidential, well-placed source had told him that U.S. special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s 22-month inquiry into the outing of former CIA agent Valerie Plame, wife of ex-diplomat Joseph Wilson IV, would go further than anyone had heretofore thought.
“He’s going to save America,” Hersh predicted, on the phone from his home in Washington, just days before Fitzgerald announced indictments against I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, U.S. Vice-President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, on Friday.
“Because it’s not just about Wilson,” maintained Hersh, who, as a New York Times reporter in the late 1960s, first blew the lid off the My Lai massacre in Vietnam and, more recently, exposed abuses at Abu Ghraib, the prison west of Baghdad where U.S. forces engaged in torture and humiliation of prisoners. He appears in Toronto tomorrow to speak to the group Canadian Journalists for Free Expression.
“Fitzgerald’s going deep. He may just unravel the whole conspiracy,” continues Hersh, who might be proven right. While Libby resigned after being indicted for perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements, Fitzgerald continues to investigate Karl Rove, President George W. Bush’s influential deputy chief of staff.
link
Posted by: linda | Nov 1 2005 18:14 utc | 5
Bottom line. Libby is going to trial unless the charges get dismissed on a technicality, and don’t take that off the table. And as you yourself have pointed out, Libby plans a vigourous defense. So that means that a bunch of reporters, Wilson’s neighbors, other Washington socialites are going to be put on the stand to defend Libby. Who are your friends Scooter. In other words, Libby has to put someone on the stand to defend his side of the story. Rove, Cheney, Miller? We’d be happy to put our hand on the bible, we have nothing to hide, we’ll help keep our good buddy Scooter out of the pokey? Who are your friends Scooter?
Rove’s nuts are definately in the vice, and Rove is tossing in whatever kitchen sink he can think of to avoid a trial where God knows what kinds of questions will come up. And reporters may have enjoyed sucking on Rove’s tit to this point to keep their cozy jobs and “inside” connections but are they willing to go to jail? For far longer than 85days? What kind of defense will these nutjobs come up with? that’s the terrifying $64,000 question.
Posted by: GasperC | Nov 1 2005 18:17 utc | 6
Rove told Cooper; Libby knew VWP was covert
This ABC story is full of dynamite. (No wonder Bush rushed the Alito nomination forward.) Matt Cooper says that:
1. He first learned about Valerie Plame Wilson from Karl Rove. [Old news: see below.]
2. Scooter Libby confirmed, not only that she worked at the CIA, but that she was covert. [Dynamite if true, but inconsistent with Cooper’s account in Time.]
Just in case, here’s the full text:
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 1 2005 18:24 utc | 8
I agree that the parallels between Rove and Libby’s stories are striking. And if Fitz think’s Libby’s story is complete bullshit, he likely thinks the same thing about Rove’s. It’s just a question of whether he can prove it. I wrote about this last week at my own site.
Posted by: Anonymous Liberal | Nov 1 2005 18:27 utc | 9
It seems like Fitzgerald should be able to unravel the lies that took us to war, but if he did that, he would be doing the job of the United States Congress. God knows, we wish somebody would do their job, cause it’s for damn sure they aren’t doing what they are Constitutionally required to do.
This may have to be a two step process – Fitzgerald loads the ammo into the gun, and in January 2007, a Democratic Majority in Congress pulls the trigger.
Posted by: bcinaz | Nov 1 2005 18:32 utc | 10
It’s Catherine Martin, not Elizabeth, Mr. Billmon.
Defending the war became the animating priority aboard Air Force Two that day. According to his indictment on Friday, Libby “discussed with other officials aboard the plane” how he should respond to “pending media inquiries” about the critic, former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV. Apart from Libby, only press aide Catherine Martin is known to have accompanied Cheney on that flight.
But a Rove by another other name will still smell like turds.
Posted by: joejoejoe | Nov 1 2005 18:43 utc | 11
Cheney’s new security adviser linked to bogus information on Iraq
By Jonathan S. Landay and Warren P. Strobel
Knight Ridder Newspapers
WASHINGTON – Vice President Dick Cheney replaced I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby as his national security adviser on Monday with an aide identified by a former Iraqi exile group as the White House official to whom it fed information on Iraq that turned out to be erroneous.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 1 2005 18:44 utc | 12
what did you expect Uncle $cam? Cheney has to staff this from within, no one in their right mind would knowingly get involved with this bunch at this time.
I can only hope that their sleep is tormented, they will all die comfortably in their beds in the end but for now I hope that they are all sick with worry.
Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 1 2005 18:52 utc | 13
I heard a rumor on the internets that Fitzgerald was talking to Sharp to tell his client not to discuss pardons before the investigation was completed because it may be considered obstruction of justice.
OT: I actually found an example of Bush using “internets” in the St. Louis debate from 2000:
We can have filters on Internets where public money is spent. There ought to be filters in public libraries, and filters in public schools, so that if kids get on the Internet, there’s not going to be pornography or violence coming in….
Internets, the internet, the internets,… you know what they say, the President is a hobgoblin fool with a little mind.
Posted by: joejoejoe | Nov 1 2005 18:52 utc | 14
Absent any plausible explanation, Fitzgerald’s visit with Sharp, like every other tick-tock in this great affair, becomes a kind of Rorschach blot, and all our speculations testimonies of our political psychology.
Why not just get on the phone, out of public view? Why, instead, with the paparazzi in tow, make a public visit to the attorney for the President of the United States?
Fitzgerald picked up the shoe he dropped on Friday, marched into the office of the President’s lawyer, and, rolled the shoe over in his hands while the two of them chatted — maybe tapped in on Sharp’s desk a little bit — maybe pounded it on his desk!
“It is from numberless diverse acts of courage and belief that human history is shaped. Each time a man stands up for an ideal or acts to improve the lot of others or strikes out against injustice he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring those ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest wall of oppression and resistance.”
~ Robert F. Kennedy, South Africa, 1966
Posted by: manonfyre | Nov 1 2005 18:59 utc | 15
Why did Scooter provide “false statements” in his first interview with the FBI in October 2003, only three months after Novak’s “outing” story appeared?
Hmmm?
Could it had something to do with the fact that political appointee, pal Johnny “When the Eagle Soars” Ashcroft was still in charge of the investigation?
What might phone logs between the White House and DOJ during this period suggest or reveal?
“John, it’s Karl. You gotta bury this one.”
“Karl, it’s John. I’m getting some heat about the $750,000 I paid you to run my Senate campaigns. I’m gonna hafta cut you guys loose on this one.”
Ashcroft didn’t recuse himself from the investigation, and Fitz wasn’t appointed, until December ’03.
Posted by: manonfrye | Nov 1 2005 19:46 utc | 16
Dan said,
pretty cool of MSNBC to link back to the Whiskey Bar. I guess Billmon is getting known everywhere.
After last weekends round-ups which had the MSM pundents singing in full part harmony “he dodged the bullet, he dodged the bullet”, its any wonder why they defer (more and more) to the blogs to fill out the picture of whats really going down. Since they are unwilling to take ANY risk in assessing ANY of the current events that might elucidate the pathetic and crumbling excuse for governance we have (had) to endure, and seeing that they ALWAYS seem to come out WRONG in what they do say, it makes sense they would indulge in a little vicarious thinking by turning to the blogs — seeing that their track record in asessments have been mostly RIGHT. Maybe they’re as starved for the truth as anybody, but are unwilling to sacrifice the blow-dried celebrity status, so look forward to them feasting upon the independent mind, like YOU Billmon, Digby, Jane, Josh etc.
Posted by: anna missed | Nov 1 2005 20:03 utc | 17
I’m sticking to my idea that Fitz is done until the trial. The trial might never happen, it’s a year minimum before it starts, and maybe three.
When Fitz convenes another grand jury get excited. Till then it’s over. As some administration wag commented about a year ago, “we let the earthmovers cover this over”, and now they have again.
Posted by: rapier | Nov 1 2005 20:15 utc | 18
Save that anthem obligation for another time (we’ve got our own problems today), but it does appear to be interesting that Hersh’s opinions would be sought by a major MSM North, not South, of the 49th (figuratively in terms of Toronto of course, given its true latitude).
____
A little off topic, but….why is it that there is all this “can’t recollect” stuff going on all of a sudden around the Italian issue? Is it possible that the Roving Cheneyburtonians have decided it’s time to start taking the 5th at every possible opportunity including at cocktail parties, evils of access meetings and WH Press Waggles?
.
.
“Sy seems persuaded by his sources…”
Whenever the word ‘source’ or ‘sources’ comes out of Sy’s mouth, I cringe. They’re either ficticious or full of it – and useless either way.
One can perhaps admire the spirit, but not the substance, of his more recent work.
Posted by: Pat | Nov 1 2005 20:39 utc | 20
When Fitz convenes another grand jury get excited
i read in wapo the other day he had already inpaneled another grand jury. not sure where the link is.
Posted by: annie | Nov 1 2005 21:22 utc | 21
Fitzgerald’s office in N. Illinois has been going after the Governor and for a while now. The same m.o. Drip, drip, drip. From the Sun-Times:
At least one official hired by Gov. Blagojevich’s administration wore a hidden recording device as part of the federal government’s ongoing investigation of the governor’s hiring practices, the Chicago Sun-Times has learned.
I hadn’t considered wiretaping in the Plame case.
Posted by: ~ | Nov 1 2005 22:11 utc | 22
wiretapping works best if the wiretap target thinks the coast is clear….the coast is clear, the coast is clear!
Posted by: gylangirl | Nov 1 2005 22:45 utc | 23
Pat wrote, Whenever the word ‘source’ or ‘sources’ comes out of Sy’s mouth, I cringe.
It’s important to note that Hersh gave his impression days before Libby’s indictment, at a time when most reporters were getting wildly incorrect information. Hersh got taken with the rest of them. Really, at this point I doubt that Fitzgerald actually went to Bush’s lawyer’s office.
As I’m concerned, Fitzgerald has stopped with Libby (unless he explicitly says otherwise) and if we want the truth about Niger and Iraq and the conspiracy against the Wilsons, we’ll have to pursue other avenues.
Which is another way of applauding the Democratic shutdown of the Senate today to force the Roberts inquiry. Man, Reid and Durbin sure managed to rattle Mr. Eugenics. Ha!
It will be a combination of forces coming at them from all sides…the awareness of the people, the potential Congressional investigation, the law, the Wilson’s civil suit, and Karma. And most of all, the evidence is there and can’t be snatched back.
So if a person wants to ride the emotional roller coaster and follow the National Enquirer type gossip about the individual players, that’s OK, but the big picture is pointing to revelation. No reporter, no politician, no wannabe psychic, no EXPERT, can figure the whole thing out. Maybe some half aware interested asshole on the street can, though.
It’s a detailed picture coming into focus in the Cosmic Darkroom.
I feel that their biggest mistake was not taking the money and running after their narrow escape with Iran Contra. They insisted on tempting fate.
Posted by: jm | Nov 2 2005 0:08 utc | 25
Fitzgerald IS going all the way.
Libby will claim he is running a vigorous defense right up until the moment his plea bargain is announced. The whol point of his firve indictments are that they are utterly indefensible.
And that they are not the end of his charges, if he doesn’t start telling Fitzgerald about the motives and intent of the White House players.
Libby’s trial, if it comes to that, can go on completely on auto-pilot — if Libby goes that route, it won’t slow Fitzgerald down a bit.
He’ll just call out, “NEXT!” and bring in Rove.
“NEXT!” and bring in Cheney.
“NEXT!” and bring in Condi.
“NEXT!” and bring in Hadley.
“NEXT!”
“NEXT!”
Posted by: Antifa | Nov 2 2005 2:04 utc | 26
wiretapping works best if the wiretap target thinks the coast is clear….the coast is clear, the coast is clear!
No doubt!
Unfortunately, I think the more draconian parts of the PATRIOT Act that gave Feds even more sweeping powers when it comes to wiretapping have expired. Wouldn’t that be poetic justice — Fitzgerald acting in the interest of national security has the Feds excercise sections of that infamous peice of Republican legislation gone mad to record incriminating telephone conversatations between the Republican “domestic terrorists” within the White House? It would make the Nixon tapes look like a paltry “Crime Stoppers” segment on the local news.
Not Condi! The White House has just started trying to add a Martin L King veneer to the George C Marshall pastiche that they have tried to dress her up in. The glue isn’t dry yet. Veneer will warp and crack if it is rained on. She just visited Rosa Park’s home town or something with the Guv of Mississippi or Alabama, does it matter which?, It’s part of showing the Cheney’s administration respect for and concern with black folk. She even has new shoes to wear. It’s like going to China. The Sec of State is in charge of this reaching across the water effort. You don’t think our man at the DoD can muster it, do you? I don’t know how she can have time to appear. She already did an excellent job of defending the 100,000 Iraqi tropps that she put on the pay roll in testimony.
Posted by: christofay | Nov 2 2005 8:57 utc | 28
Cheney Circles the Wagons
by Jim Lobe
With his closest aide for the past five years facing arraignment in federal court Thursday on five counts of perjury and obstruction of justice, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney appears to be hunkering down with a familiar cast of faces.
His choices to replace his now-indicted former chief of staff and national security adviser, I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, suggest a determination to stay the course despite calls from various quarters that his office, as well as the White House itself, look for new blood, if not a complete overhaul.
Libby’s two positions will now be shared by different people, both attorneys…
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 2 2005 15:59 utc | 29
Asking Cheney’s office and the White House to look for new blood would not seem to be the most prudent request to make.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 2 2005 16:03 utc | 30