Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 5, 2005
Poland Did Attack Us

Sick, I really am getting sick of these moderate liberals who exculpate themselves form any warmongering now. Just one example: Kevin Drum:

Liberals, for their part, need to accept the obvious: in 2002, virtually everybody believed Iraq had an active WMD program. The CIA believed it, … [t]he British believed the same thing. The Germans and French believed it. Former Clinton administration officials believed it. Lots of Democratic members of congress believed it. They were all wrong, it turned out, but they weren’t lying. The simple fact is that virtually everyone who had access to the full range of classified intelligence at that point in time thought Iraq had an active WMD program. Scott Ritter is about the only exception.

This is factual wrong, very wrong and it is irrelevant, but I have seen it in creeping up in variants all over the net. Check the comments to that piece if you want some serious debunking, or ask this man.

Kevin and others are rewriting history to save face – their face.

The scrutinized history is this:

  • There was no possibility that Iraq could have WMDs, except maybe a forgotten cookie jar of old unusable mustard gas.
  • There was a bunch of proven liars with documented nefarious aims, claiming without any proof that Iraq had WMDs.
  • There were hundreds of millions of stupid folks who out of stupidness, or just to keep their head low, made themselves believe the proven liars lies.
  • There were billions who didn´t believe this bullshit
  • The hope is that maybe some of the stupids will at learn something from this.

The new history tale goes like this:

  • Everybody believed there were WMDs.
  • Everybody came to believe this, because Cheney has deceived them.
  • Impeach Cheney.

My condolence to everybody who did believe in the old history. Sorry folks, but it is dead. The new history is now the reality. No learning or insight required here.

Another variant of this is the attribute inevitable. You know, after that guy DUIed my spouse, I just had to kill his neighbors children – and his brother-in-law’s grandparents and siblings  – and I had to burn down that village. It was inevitable, just like the war on Afghanistan was inevitable.

I have heard the word inevitable often, in my teens, when I tried to discussed WWII and death camps with some older folks in Germany: "You know Poland did attack us, right? It was all inevitable."

Comments

Excellent post B … just another example of revisionist forgetting and ‘them’ creating a new ‘reality’ to suit thier current aims/objectives …

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 5 2005 21:41 utc | 1

Well said B.
It is these Dems that when they get back in power will perpetuate the war.
Tell Drumhead to call Scott Ritter.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 5 2005 21:48 utc | 2

thanks, b.

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 5 2005 21:49 utc | 3

The MKI version of thw WMD ‘lies’ propaganda memes to create the ‘Tonkin Gulf’ pretext to ‘justify’ the Iraq invasion. An international war crime of Aggressive War and the subsequent justification of Regime Change is an even greater war crime under international Law …

Attack on Gleiwitz radio station
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The Gleiwitz incident was a staged attack against the German radio station “Sender Gleiwitz” (Polish: Radiostacja Gliwicka) in Gliwice on the night of August 31, 1939. There were other staged Polish-German border incidents (such as house torching in the Polish Corridor) and spurious propaganda output. Together the Nazis claimed these 21 incidents as the pretext for operation Fall Weiss, the invasion of Poland the following day.
The border incidents were collectively dubbed ‘Operation Himmler’.
The Gleiwitz incident was organised by Alfred Naujocks under orders from Reinhard Heydrich and accompanied by Heinrich Müller, the chief of the Gestapo (according to the sworn affidavit of Naujocks at Nuremberg Trials). Naujocks stated that a small group seized the station and a message was broadcast that urged the Poles resident in Silesia to strike against Germans. After receiving a lethal injection Franciszek Honiok, a German Silesian known for sympathizing with the Poles and arrested the previous day by the Gestapo, was given gunshot wounds and left dead at the scene of the incident as evidence that he had been killed while attacking. This was presented as proof of the attack to the invited press and police officials.
Other convicts were available for use but ultimately only Honiok was used. The Germans referred to them by a code phrase “Canned Goods”. Therefore some sources (incorrectly) refer to this incident as “Operation ‘Canned Goods'”.
The facts relating to the Gleiwitz radio station attack are often confused with other actions performed on 31 August. As the attack was supposed to represent an attack by Polish insurgents, the “attackers” (including Honiok) did not wear Polish military uniforms.
On 1 September, Adolf Hitler announced in the Reichstag that there were 21 border incidents in total, including three very serious ones. These were used as the excuse for the “defensive” attack that had been launched earlier that morning against Poland, thus starting the Second World War.

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 5 2005 21:52 utc | 4

Outraged, FWIW, at least the Germans could stage a successful invasion.
Expect the new powers that be in Washington in the coming years to be NeoLiberals.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 5 2005 21:56 utc | 5

@Cloned Poster
NeoCons or NeoLiberals … simply two slightly different factions of the single party system that ‘fronts’ for corporate capitalism and AIPAC/PNAC …

Posted by: Outraged | Nov 5 2005 22:01 utc | 6

@CP – at least the Germans could stage a successful invasion.
Hey – just looking from the windows of my flat here, about 60% of the houses I see were build after and because the old ones were bombed during WW-II. Successful invasion?

Posted by: b | Nov 5 2005 22:05 utc | 7

I was a faithful reader, for many months, of the WaPo’s page 18 leaks from desperate CIA and State people who were trying, trying to get us to use our heads. The barkeep quoted them many, many times himself. Add to this the innumerable speeches and papers in academic forums and journals attacking the insanity of the thing, and you have enough reading-material for a long lifetime. Keven Drum and Marshall–those were the ones I stopped reading almost as soon as I started. Unfair? Unjust? No, not at all–because, as the barkeep says, there was no doubt whatsoever that this war was exactly what it was–a preposterous and gratuitously stupid act of world-destroying ferocity, America’s Death Wish run wild.

Posted by: alabama | Nov 5 2005 22:05 utc | 8

in a ahistoric environment it is not surprising that people have to be reminded of the facts, as you are doing here, b – but that is the saddest legacy of rupert murdoch that the disinformation – sometimes very basic disinformation becomes the truth
the sleight of hand of those who rule from the roll of dollard is cruel & contemptuous

Posted by: r’giap | Nov 5 2005 22:17 utc | 9

@B, I just meant the first part of WWII, Shinsenski would not have been fired by Hitler,

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 5 2005 22:26 utc | 10

hmmm. when george III claimed ‘no-one could have predicted that the levies would fail’ he was publicly contradicted by many.
need more public contradictions. or alternatively, take the drum and beat it incessantly ie ‘those who thought that Saddam had WMD’s were holding the receipts!’

Posted by: gylangirl | Nov 5 2005 23:06 utc | 11

I read Drum’s piece and it seems fair to say that many Democrats did believe Iraq had chemical and biological weapons in 2002…didn’t we sell them to SH? There were so many people who insisted that Iraq had nuclear weapons that no lay person could assert that he believed Iraq did not have them.
I had no idea one way or the other. I found it odd that UNSCOM could not find any and I wondered why we were not offered satellite pictures like there were during the Cuban missile crisis. I do know we have greatly enhanced capability for imagery that makes that 1960’s stuff look very crude. In addition to satellites we also flew tens of thousands of sorties all over Iraq. Still no one bothered to offer any proof.
the question that was not asked and never answered except by scared and hysterical people was, why was it suddenly illegal for one country in the entire world to possess missiles, toxic weapons, and even those ridiculous model airplanes that were going to be used to attack on the continental US? Everyone else has them and quite rightly so.
So we got thrown into an awkward situation, you couldn’t argue against the invasion by saying Iraq didn’t have this so-called WMD because no one could be sure that they didn’t. Making an argument on moral and legal grounds fell on deaf ears all around. Even our esteemed barkeep at the Whiskey Bar seems to have bought off on the legitimacy of the invasion of Afghanistan. All any of us could do was wring our hands and hope for the best. Not much has changed since then, we now have proof of the lies that led us into the invasion but it doesn’t matter. No one will be punished for lying. Wolfowitz got a cushy bank job out of the deal. All the other perps will die peacefully in their sleep. We should worry about Democrats now saying they were against the war? why? Let them finally get started with some antiwar events.

Posted by: dan of steele | Nov 5 2005 23:25 utc | 12

Exc. post B-. Right it had nothing to do w/PNAC, which called for a new Pearl Harbor (Mission Accomplished), and invasion of Iraq, or georgie insisting at his first cabinet meeting that everyone did up dirt on Iraq ‘cuz he wanted to invade goddamnit.
If “Everyone” believed what Revisionists are asserting, then, of course the proper course of action to follow was to allow the Inspectors to do their work & sort out the confusion.
And that overlooks 2 Crucial Details:
1) SH’s son-in-law, who was in charge of their programs, came over & said they had destroyed everything. (Am I wrong on this – was Kamel(?) only responsible for chem. warfare, not nuke?)
2) It’s all irrelevant, because what everyone doesn’t mention & I fear went down the ole memory hole, is that SH said, at two mins. to midnight, that He Would Do Whatever Bu$hCo Wanted Him To Do, if he only could be allowed to stay in power nominally. That was it. xUS won. They then completely ruled Iraq, w/out a shot being fired. Obviously the first step would be working w/inspectors to getting whatever residual shit was around, cleaned out.
3) Insofar as Bu$h wasn’t informed, it was because:
a) He informed Everyone he wanted to go to war & it was everyone’s job to make this possible.
b) As Everyone has noted, he knows nothing about Foreign Affairs & Has No Interest in it, so why tell him.
c) It’s set up so that this cannot be proven, ‘cuz the main communication between cheney & bu$h was their weekly lunches, from which All Aides Were Specifically Excluded. So, it’s set up for cheney to take the fall. (georgie learned this from his daddy, a lifetime cia agent.)

Posted by: jj | Nov 5 2005 23:56 utc | 13

The other part of this bogus argument is that the people who didn’t believe the WMD comic-book scenario were right for the wrong reasons. We are apparently mindless pacifists who got this right because a stopped clock is right twice a day, or something along those lines. Those duped by WMD arguments have to justify why they were blind to all logic, why their Democratic leadership sold them down the river and why people should listen to a single word they write, when they were so wrong this time.

Posted by: steve expat | Nov 6 2005 0:09 utc | 14

excellent post, b. so many good points.
alabama, I too dumped most of the blogs and political magazines I was reading at the time. Liberalism was laid bare in all its complicit brutality.
dan, yes, who are we to decide which nations can or cannot defend themselves.
JJ, Saddam’s last minute capitualation: Great point I hadn’t thought of in a while. I imagine the hawks are kicking themselves that they didn’t take him up on his offer these days.
b, Let’s not forget the other times we were lied into war: The sinking of the Maine, the Gulf of Tonkin, and Pearl Harbor. In essence the US is just as guilty as the Nazis in a legalistic sense, and have killed more than the Nazis through their lies. The only area where the Nazis have the Americans beat is in sheer intensity of death, that is the rate of killing.
But history and justice are always from the view of the victors.

Posted by: Malooga | Nov 6 2005 4:43 utc | 15

The bit that I for the life of me just don’t get is how this same old shit comes about.
Blind Freddy could see their were no WMD in Iraq. C’mon people did you wonder how anyone was keeping a straight face when about 5 days before the murdering begun they dragged out that rickety old home made glider and called it an “Iraqi secret weapon” .
No one who saw that piece of ‘evidence’ could have been in any doubt whatsoever that Saddam wasn’t even a threat to Heath Robinson
But as has been pointed out even if he did have these WMD which he so plainly didn’t, so what!
Yet just like the Gulf of Tonkin, Gleiwitz Radio Station there was absolutely no problem in convincing the sheeple that war was the go.
How many more times?
I would suspect we could go back to the Trojan Wars and find this same old same old. In fact I grabbed a copy of Kingdom of Heaven a while ago (Incidentally a reasonable movie hence it bombed at the box office. Can’t have people thinking the Muslims are human).
It showed factions within the crusaders were desperate to get the King of Jerusalem out against the ragheads.
They staged an attack on Xtians to make it look like Muslims did it but the king didn’t buy it which left them in their minds no alternative to be be so cruel, foul and heinous to the ragheads that Saladin would have to go to war against the Xtians.
And here we are still doing it. Where do these thugs learn the dancesteps? You see I don’t believe that even the Ivy League Colleges offer a major in Applied Warmongering yet Reynald of Châtillon , Himmler, and Rumsfield all knew exactly how to do this.
So is it that we are so stupid we can be told the same lie ad infinitum and buy it or even worse are our leaders so unimaginative they can’t think up a new wrinkle and we could care less?
We talk about genetic memories about dreaming of falling being encoded into us from before we came down outta the trees yet here we lapping up the same old BS.
I suppose those who didn’t believe in intelligent design could argue that since once the shit hits the fan everyone dies whether or not they ‘believed’ the BS or not there is no chance of natural selection coming into play.
Therefore it is the duty of we unbelievers to stay alive and procreate as much as possible for the good of our species.
Hmmm! see anyone can do this lead the sheeple up the garden path bizzo.
“Psst Hey kid wanna by a perfectly good pre-owned war?” rolls up coat sleeves to display wares “No? Hows about a great little religion I just invented. If you get in now at the ground floor I’ll give the whole of the Mid West for 40% of the tithes. There’s big money in them thar sheeple!”

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 6 2005 8:54 utc | 16

Oops that was me

Posted by: Debs is dead | Nov 6 2005 8:58 utc | 17

Debs said:
The bit that I for the life of me just don’t get is how this same old shit comes about.
………………….
No kidding, I remember before the war I wrote all my representatives asking how the US could, after so much history, once again throw the country off the cliff and into a war of choice, based upon what seemed to me the same old conjecture and lies. My opinions were informed by extensive interviews (C Rose show) with the former British, French, and American (J. Wilson) ambassadors to Iraq — who all advised strongly against a war, who all also were sceptical about any real threat to the mainland USA. And also there was Scott Ritter who, before he was shredded, made many appearences in the MSM doing the same. All these people had real time on the ground experience in Iraq — which in comparison to the simultanious inflated rhetoric coming out of the administration, that so exceeded (mushroom clouds) these peoples opinion that to me , surely a skunk was at work. And in spite of this awful smell (of rationality grounded in experience) it was amazing how many refused to acknowledge how shaky the “evidence” really was, and perhaps more importantly, what was to happen in the aftermath, especially if there were no WMD — and if the war “went badly”. Across the MSM board the answer to these questions were a collective shrugg of the shoulders –” it would be bad for the president”, who knows? I never for a minute believed, after years of sanctions and inspections that there was any remote possibility of Iraq reconstituting a nuclear program or a significant chem/bio program, and now with real hindsight, the administration did’nt either, in that their hype was equivalent in proportion to the missing evidence. Because (I could figure this out) this is not rocket science, too many on the left are left holding the (stinking) bag of gullibility if not complicity, and are tainted with the wiff of exceptionalism themselves, and feel stigmitised with the shit on their shoe also. So as it must be, all those paying tribute to their own stations of the cross (as if it the were indeed christian) should truely fess up, before the clean up.

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 6 2005 10:59 utc | 18

Kevin Drum’s writing:
wrong = morally objectionable, not: incorrect (or only sometimes)
story = truth published in a newspaper, not narrative (or only sometimes)
false = incorrect
reliable = believable, to be believed
decent human being = reader of his blog
On balance = my opinion, which is balanced
significant = important, not : meaningful, etc.
evidence = factoids
truth = reality
reality = my view
negligent = criminal
justice = what is only fair!
.. and so on.
Were he to write about himself:
My discourse (meaning vocabulary) is equivalent to (meaning is the same as) that of the Republicans (meaning mainstream US opinion, left and right.)
🙂 😉

Posted by: Noisette | Nov 6 2005 14:15 utc | 19

Debs wrote: The bit that I for the life of me just don’t get is how this same old shit comes about.
On to Syria!
Invented voices:
Remember, Saddam moved his WMD to Syria before the invasion! Syria exported, what was it? – nerve gas? to Jordan! And sent missiles to Sudan! The Russians helped them! The CIA doubts their WMD capability? What do they know. The US needs to be able to destroy those bunkers!
Syria supports terrorism. They are fuelling the Iraq insurgency! To pacify Iraq, one has to cut off the support of the terrorists but Syria won’t close its borders! There are Baathists in Syria!
Syria has WMD pointed at Israel. It could destroy Israel. Total it, really.
Syria “killed” Hariri. A UN report says so. The UN resolution against Syria was voted in unanimously….

Real Ones:
Our patience has limits. (Jack Straw)
The Syrian Government has actively and consistently worked to break the will of the Lebanese people. (Condi Rice)

Posted by: Noisette | Nov 6 2005 14:24 utc | 20

C’mon, you had to be a fool not to know that the ONLY reason we actually invaded Iraq is because we were reasonably sure that they had NO WMD.
If Saddam had had the potential of killing US soldiers en masse, Karl Rove would never have greenlighted the attack.
It was a Granada or Noriega thing redux.

Posted by: Lupin | Nov 6 2005 16:58 utc | 21

I don’t know who the hell K.Drum is (should I?), but thght. B-‘s narrative was worth it’s own thread.
Alternatively, does anyone really expect any Pres. to Announce that since Wall Street has shipped all of our factories to china to vastly enrich themselves, Ma Dear Americans, now that there are no jobs left for yr. children, they must go Get Maimed And Die to control chinese oil spigot (etc.)? Ever so much easier to turn opposing head of state into a cartoon of evil w/Ohmygod mushroom clouds…
Similarly, does anyone expect Pres. to explain about threat of Iranian Oil Bourse to the dollar, gutted deliberately by wall street, and his frenzy to fulfill grandpa’s wetdream of destroying Soc. Sec.?

Posted by: jj | Nov 6 2005 19:24 utc | 22

Change your mind yet?You think Saddam had WMD? Well he didn’t.Downing street memo’s proved that.Don’t ya think it’s about time to give up on the tunnel vision(take your blinders off!Geee And the rest of you clowns Just who do you think runs the country?Since the real federal(republic) government was dissolved in 1933.and the criminal democracy was now in full force.Bet ya didn’t know FDR bankrupt america and signed everything over to the federal Reserve bankers. including you all.did you know FDR had to declare you all the emeny of the UNITED STATES to dissolve the gold standred.act used was (trading whit the emeny act)OH BUT THERES MORE!HOW MANY OF YOU THINK YOU HAVE ANY CONSTUTITION RIGHTS?WELL TO BAD YOU DON’T.WANT PROOF? LOOK INTO TEDDY R’S DECLARING THE WARS POWERS ACT1917.IT’S STILL ENFORCED TO DAY.MORE PROOF THE GOLD FRINGE ON THE AMERICAN FLAG FOUND IN ALL COURT ROOMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.WE HAVE BEEN IN A STATE OF WAR SINCE 1917.THE CONSTUTITION WAS SUSPENDED. COURTS ARE UNDER MILITARY RULE. IF YOU HAVE ANY GUTS CHECK OUT Congressmen McFaddens report to congress 1934..IT’s also found in the congressional records of the 73rd Congress. if this don’t pop your bubble (your already dead.democracy is for criminals and idiots without a clue. Republic of america is for the true free giving to us by our founding fathers.

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 23 2005 5:02 utc | 23