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November 26, 2005
Open Thread 05-121
News & views …
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Well, its cold as can be here (ten degrees) with about four inches of snow. But, being the hard working guy I am, I’m going to my cabin and peeling cedar poles with a draw knife. When I’m there all the problems in the world seem so small and out of reach. Posted by: jdp | Nov 26 2005 14:44 utc | 2 I saw Saw I, but I don’t think I’ll see Saw II. How about you? Posted by: Sez who | Nov 26 2005 15:12 utc | 3 i will now stop reading his blog Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 26 2005 15:26 utc | 4 i will now stop reading his blog Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 26 2005 15:27 utc | 5 He sounded a little like Pat yesterday, did’nt he? Posted by: anna missed | Nov 26 2005 18:15 utc | 7 Cole’s reply to monbiot seems to be this: I have discovered the use of WP by US could not be condemned by any court whose adjudication of law satisfies US interests. Posted by: slothrop | Nov 26 2005 18:47 utc | 8 No US charges over Afghan bodies . Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 26 2005 19:09 utc | 10 Speaking at a news conference in Kandahar, the US-led coalition’s operational commander, Maj-Gen Jason Kamiya, said the soldiers involved had not been aware that what they were doing was wrong. Posted by: annie | Nov 26 2005 19:36 utc | 11 uncle Posted by: r’giap | Nov 26 2005 20:32 utc | 12 slothrop Posted by: r’giap | Nov 26 2005 20:57 utc | 14 I haven’t bothered to read Cole for a while. We are getting to that place where a tyre salesman would say ‘the rubber meets the road’ and a lumberjack is about to yell ‘timber’ and most of the rest of us feel the urge to relax and indulge in a little self congratulation, because everything we have said has been vindicated. Posted by: Debs is dead | Nov 26 2005 22:12 utc | 15 sorry ’bout the typos grammar, spelling and punctuation but I just couldn’t get out of pissed off and into objective ‘discussion’ this am. Posted by: Debs is dead | Nov 26 2005 23:13 utc | 16
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 26 2005 23:33 utc | 17
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 26 2005 23:38 utc | 18 ‘We don’t torture’
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 27 2005 0:19 utc | 19 I’ve been busy elsewhere for a while but wanted to make certain the MoA folks know about the new site put up by the staff of Al Jazeera – Don’t Bomb Us. They have updates about their colleague who is being held in Spain, the other in Guantanamo – and about the bombing which killed one of their journalists in Baghdad. They could certainly use some notes of solidarity – particularly since some wingnuts are using the site to applaud the idea of bombing them. Posted by: Siun | Nov 27 2005 0:36 utc | 20
Defending torture is incredible Posted by: Outraged | Nov 27 2005 0:44 utc | 21 “What Cole is recommending is very similar to what the British did in Iraq after the rebellion of 1920. They relied on airpower and “Bomber Harris”, the man in charge of the RAF effort made no effort to conceal that he was going after civilians and their villages. Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 27 2005 2:44 utc | 22 If I were of the Political Elite, I’d keep the Shooting Wars Going. Even beyond the simple fact that they are profitable. The masses are easily distracted so they won’t focus on the fact that we’re busy Stealing Everything Everywhere. After we’ve stolen everything in America, Iraq, etc. then the shooting can stop. The masses will wake up & their lives will be over. In the meantime, anyone who focuses on that can be called an immoral selfish complainer who is worried about their own welfare while others are dying. Posted by: jj | Nov 27 2005 2:54 utc | 23 I don’t know. It’s alex cockburn after all, who, so far as careful veracity goes, should follow his brothers’ lead. Alex’s betrayal of Hitchens was downright creepy. Posted by: slothrop | Nov 27 2005 3:10 utc | 24 For an insight into what the consequences of such ‘bombing’ campaigns are, smart bombs (hah ! Smart enough to magically distinguish combatant from civilian ?!) or not, check out the following article on the bombing of North Korea during the Korean War, oops ‘police action’, and if you find the writers style a little melodramatic or ‘over the top’ consider that it’s all referenced and sourced, with valuable additional commentary from various historians in the comments … (much of the relevant record is STILL classified !) Posted by: Outraged | Nov 27 2005 3:52 utc | 25
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 27 2005 4:07 utc | 26 Not only don’t we torture, but we haven’t been doing it for many years.
Posted by: citizen k | Nov 27 2005 4:24 utc | 27 @R’Giap
Actually it was Winston Churchill that directed the use of chemical warfare (gassing) from the air against the ‘barbarian savages'(others) 60 odd years before Saddam Hussein and Halabjahs Kurds, IIRC, at some point in these glorious interwar years of the RAF … long before the internationally decried actions (chemical bombs from the air) of the Italian Fascists under Mussolini in their late 1930’s campaigns in Ethiopia and Eritrea. But then, of course, Mussolini’s Italy wasn’t a righteous and just democracy, defending Empire, was it ? Posted by: Outraged | Nov 27 2005 4:41 utc | 28 It being not yet dreamtime, and a spell of rainy days passing into sun, Posted by: Elrod MacAffey | Nov 27 2005 4:57 utc | 29 Tired of pointing out that accidental shootings of fellow family members easily outnumbered US citizens killed or injured by terrorists in the last 12 months?
Be sure to point out to your friends that Mohamed Atta al-Sayed the alleged ringleader of the 9/11 attacks was an Egyptian. That he was a highly educated and intelligent person who became overwhelmed with anger because he saw the US’s bribery and pressure to get already out of touch Middle Eastern dictators, to support Israel’s illegal occupation of the West Bank as proof of the pointlessness of trying to makes changes ‘from within’. Posted by: Debs is dead | Nov 27 2005 5:23 utc | 30 Scholorship aside, I wonder if Juan Cole is inclined to pull a punch, and tow to an extent, the exceptionalist line. Its no(or is it) Posted by: anna missed | Nov 27 2005 11:15 utc | 31 still on my first cup of coffee, but is the r’giap here parody of rememberinggiap? it just don’t sound like him, nor is it signed as usual. am I missing something? the recurrance of “seamy soft pornography” and “white skin priviledge” sounded like something stuck in someone’s craw. Posted by: dk | Nov 27 2005 15:06 utc | 32 if indeed, my deepest apologies to rememberinggiap. I remain a huge fan of your writing. Posted by: dk | Nov 27 2005 16:05 utc | 34 dk Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 27 2005 16:10 utc | 35 dk Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 27 2005 16:14 utc | 36 “In 2001, after the September 11 attacks, the Pentagon awarded the Rendon Group, a public affairs firm, a $16.7m contract to monitor media in the Islamic world. It was assigned to track “the location and use of Al-Jazeera news bureaux, reporters and stringers”, and was asked to “identify the biases of specific journalists and potentially obtain an understanding of their allegiances”. Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 27 2005 16:18 utc | 37 one more glorious france post, and rgiap’ll earn his parody. Posted by: slothrop | Nov 27 2005 16:18 utc | 38 First, Do No Harm – Music for the Broken Posted by: tante aime | Nov 27 2005 16:39 utc | 39 Isn’t is so that the U spends half of its budget on ‘defence’? Posted by: Noisette | Nov 27 2005 18:22 utc | 40 slothrop Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 27 2005 19:09 utc | 41 I’m just kidding. I have my parody written, waiting for the right moment! Posted by: slothrop | Nov 27 2005 19:23 utc | 42 well i’ll give you a leg up, my friend slothrop Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 27 2005 19:41 utc | 43 Justin Raimondo’s latest broadside against the neo-con galleon is no mere Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 28 2005 6:21 utc | 45 only because I’ve opened my yap already, and I do read here everyday, so I feel a sense of entitlement to spew… Posted by: dk | Nov 28 2005 6:28 utc | 46 @ RGiap By the way, and FWIW, I find you to be no more anti-american than any decent U.S. citizen ought to be right now, and, alas, probably for a long time to come. Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 28 2005 6:37 utc | 47 Beyond words: ‘Trophy’ video exposes private security contractors shooting up Iraqi drivers
Posted by: Fran | Nov 28 2005 7:22 utc | 48 hkol Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 28 2005 10:48 utc | 49 @ RGiap, Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 28 2005 16:51 utc | 50 CIFA: The Pentagon’s COINTELPRO Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 28 2005 17:45 utc | 51 Scandal could take in at least a dozen in Congress Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 28 2005 19:57 utc | 52 A HREF=”/A>http://icasualties.org/”>Does anyone know what’s going on? Posted by: Havenite | Nov 28 2005 20:10 utc | 53 Randy “Duke” Cunningham is gone. Thanks to Josh Marshall who made this a real public case. @Havenite – found elsewhere: Good Question, Uncle – What kinda Name is “Silla Brush”? Posted by: jj | Nov 28 2005 21:16 utc | 57 Marine ‘bullying’ video condemned
Posted by: b real | Nov 28 2005 21:52 utc | 58 John @americablog, weighs in w/the 25th Amendment which provides for removing pres. from Office when he’s too mad to carry out his job. Glad to see that I’m not the only one who saw that as Hugely Significant Part of Sy Hersh’s current New Yorker Article. It’s obvious that he needs to be removed from office for Emotional Incompetence after Cheney’s “allowed to resign for medical reasons”, so it’s our job to keep focusing on it. link Posted by: jj | Nov 28 2005 21:55 utc | 59 Jewish Newspaper, the Forward, published art. by renowned Israeli (Presumably) Military Historian @Hebrew Univ. calling for Bush’s impeachment.(He is the only non-American author on the U.S. Army’s required reading list for officers.): Posted by: jj | Nov 28 2005 22:16 utc | 60 “Good Question, Uncle – What kinda Name is “Silla Brush”?” Posted by: beq | Nov 28 2005 23:22 utc | 61 National Groups Seek Records on Exclusions of Foreign Scholars Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 28 2005 23:22 utc | 62 GM to raise India workforce by 30% Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 28 2005 23:59 utc | 63
Posted by: Outraged | Nov 29 2005 2:26 utc | 64 the heroic & principled ramsey clark is defending, what no doubt the new attorney general/torturer-in-chied gonzales, would call the quaint notion of law Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 29 2005 2:46 utc | 65 So, are there any democrats left in Congress to tax GM 100% of the salary differential bet. jobs here & India? Posted by: jj | Nov 29 2005 4:41 utc | 67 EU Warns Members On Secret US Camps Posted by: Monolycus | Nov 29 2005 5:20 utc | 68 Am I the only one who’s been curious to hear about the terms of J Miller’s separation from NYT? For those similarly curious, we should all be so “fired”. Golden Parachute is more apt characterization. Posted by: jj | Nov 29 2005 5:25 utc | 69 From Juan Cole today: Posted by: anna missed | Nov 29 2005 10:52 utc | 70 @anna missed
my 0.02 cents is up Posted by: Outraged | Nov 29 2005 11:40 utc | 71 Thanks for link to the Al-Jazeera staff blog, Siun. Posted by: Dismal Science | Nov 29 2005 17:13 utc | 72 @ Dismal Science: Thanks. I hope someone takes him up on it. Posted by: beq | Nov 29 2005 17:52 utc | 73 from znet: a brief chomsky & herman q/a on the iraq war Posted by: b real | Nov 29 2005 19:31 utc | 74 Outraged, Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 29 2005 20:15 utc | 75 b real, Posted by: anna missed | Nov 29 2005 20:31 utc | 77 If anyone’s interested in Bob Woodward, here’s a link to an exc. excerpt from the Great Joan Didion. She’s nails the Stenographer precisely in a ’96 art. in NY Rev. of Bks. Posted by: jj | Nov 29 2005 21:38 utc | 78 @anna missed at 3:15:44 PM Posted by: Outraged | Nov 29 2005 23:58 utc | 79 @anna missed at 3:15:44 PM – “i expect better” Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 30 2005 0:17 utc | 80 short simple & clear Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 30 2005 1:16 utc | 81 you cannot live in this country & not understand that its melancholly is historically determined via pr watch: By God, another awful Bush appointment
Posted by: b real | Nov 30 2005 3:42 utc | 83 Which is special, that georgie appoints a Theocrat rather than a Corporocrat, or that we have to read about it in the Lebanese Press for christ sakes, rather than headlines of Pravda-on-the-Potomac? Posted by: jj | Nov 30 2005 4:36 utc | 85 @jj Posted by: Monolycus | Nov 30 2005 4:59 utc | 86 And for any of those still keeping score at home, the story I linked to above (29 Nov. 12:20:45 AM) about the EU threatening its members with punitive actions if they don’t stand strong against US torture flyovers has already drawn a response from the US. Strange how reasonable the US can get when the dollar is falling and a real “coalition of the willing” has something to say about things. Now, I don’t expect the US to exactly piss themselves and back down (like, say, Belgium would), but this is a good start. Posted by: Monolycus | Nov 30 2005 8:19 utc | 87 |
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