Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 12, 2005
Plame Thread I +

II. Billmon: Riding the Waiver

I. We never had this, but I will give it a try.

The honorable barfly r´giap suggests to keep a thread open on the Plame affair and its consequences.

The story will split into various directions and many of Billmon’s post and a few of mine will touch on this. But for now I think r’giap is right and there is need to keep the details straight and to have the links to the various subs collected in one place.

The outcome of this may vary form Fitzgerald just shutting down without submitting a report up to a full impeachment procedure and its not a US only issue.

The best background so far is in the Gellman/Pincus piece Depiction of Threat Outgrew Supporting Evidence and in Josh Marshall’s inaugurating Practice to Deceive. Both were written 2003.

Freelance investigative Murray Waas seams to be the only one to have a source within Fitzgerad’s investigation. His blog is whatever already!,
firedoglade keeps both eyes on the issue and E&P is a good source for the media relevance.

Please add your links, ideas and analysis in the comments.
 

Comments

Times Reporter Completes Testimony Before Grand Jury

Judith Miller, the reporter for The New York Times who spent 85 days in jail before cooperating with a federal grand jury investigating a C.I.A. leak case, completed her testimony before the grand jury today, her lawyer said.
Neither Ms. Miller nor her lawyer, Robert S. Bennett, would comment on her testimony as they left the courthouse. Ms. Miller was before the panel for more than an hour. Her testimony came a day after discussions with the prosecutor about a conversation she had in June 2003 with a senior White House official.
“Judy met this afternoon with the special counsel to hand over additional notes and answer questions,” Bill Keller, The Times’s executive editor, said in a message to the staff on Tuesday afternoon. Mr. Keller said Ms. Miller was appearing before the grand jury today “to supplement her earlier testimony.”

What are these additional notes??? Why haven´t they been handed over earlier?

Posted by: b | Oct 12 2005 20:36 utc | 1

I ran across an interesting analysis a few days ago:
The Plame Case: How about Focusing on the Real Issues?
A truthout | Perspective
Something to chew on while we wait with bated breath…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 12 2005 20:47 utc | 2

Great idea r’giap & b. This could be a big one. Galloway said something like “Impeachment no. Jail yes”. Whatever, it could be a huge step out of the quagmire.
The more fires of passion around thier criminal malfeasanse, the higher the likleyhood we human members of our species may soon pull this one out and continue on with our truly human evolutionary destiny.
I’ll be reading y’all with gusto.

Posted by: Juannie | Oct 12 2005 20:48 utc | 3

dKosopedia has an excellent timeline –
Article here and timeline here

Posted by: crone | Oct 12 2005 21:11 utc | 4

Billmon’s post Mani Pulite should be kept in the forefront of everyone’s mind. I hadn’t made the connection, so was struck.
As for the details, I have a personal bee in my bonnet.
I still cannot believe that the PTB (the white house, or whatever) would out a CIA agent – high treason after all – a woman, to get revenge on her husband.
No.
The point or thrust of outing Valerie Plame, was to harm or get rid of Valerie Plame, a CIA agent, or someone who had done that and that.
Not honour, but tactics.
Joe Wilson is probably protecting his wife, by saying she was outed because of him.
And so what happened? She was on the cover of some mag wearing dark glasses, blond hair and perfect nose to the wind.
(And what about that, heh? How does a mag. publish such a recognisable photo and no word is said?)
The stuff of bad TV and unpublishable spy books.
Fakery for a gullible public.
How was Joe Wilson discredited or hurt because Val was publically named as a CIA agent?
Not ! It served his cause. Splendidly. He could play protector, defender, and indirect victim all at once! Both Rove and Cheney would have perceived that outcome instantly.
Either Val was never an undercover agent, or she is the bad girl of the plot, or the klutzes in the White House were tricked!
bit of a ramble…late here for me… let’s keep an open mind, there is more to this story.

Posted by: Noisette | Oct 12 2005 21:11 utc | 5

Also, in addition to b’s fine resources listed, I would add emptywheel’s articles, esp. her series of ‘what Judy did’ – found at – The Next Hurrah

Posted by: crone | Oct 12 2005 21:14 utc | 6

Noisette, careful not to lose the forest for the trees. Yes, Joe is cleaning up playing protector – funny, since she’s the one w/the most dangerous job in the world, not him!! – & they could even get a movie deal out of it, but this is the full frontal assault of the CIA upon Bu$hCo. The really ugly undemocratic part of it is that it’s virtually impossible to stay in office if you seriously displease the CIA – see Frank Church & Sen. Robt. Toricelli. Church was thrown out after holding his fantastic hearings on CIA; Torricelli after he forced CIA to fess up to their savagery in Central America. Even the idiot bloggers supported them throwing him out. They did it in name of corruption – they’re all corrupt, but it’s okay as long as you don’t step on powerful toes; If you do, they’ll out you. I think the guy from Illinois, whose name escapes me stepped on someone, possibly CIA, but I forget the details. He also did jail time for his transgressions.
Interesting to see if they can overthrow a sitting Pres. by the front door…In short, this is A Very Mixed Blessing.

Posted by: jj | Oct 12 2005 21:27 utc | 7

The news Tuesday evening that Fitz is now perhaps onto the whole Iraq Working Group, if true is the ultimate expression of the criminalization of politics. Kristol et. al might bemoan the criminalization of politics but the problem with the WHIG was it’s politization of policy. Sure politics and policy always collide but rarely on such a level and never before when it’s about war.
Now that the war is lost scapegoats are in order. While citizens and the media and the erswhile political opposition were to blame for allowing the whole sad mess to get so out of hand and then looked the other way as it devolved during an election year. They certainly don’t want to take any blame themselves. How much better to blame the evil cabal in the White House. Enter stage left the insidious WHIG.
The massive shift against the Iraq adventure in public opinion has found little voice in the MSM and even less in the political sphere. I posit this is because those actors know that they can’t go there and arrive unstained. Any story of what has come to pass must include their culpability.
That is why the evil cabal is a godsend to them. It will be the story that provides them absolution or at least a shiny thing to deflect attention away from them.
The papers have now been served in the divoce proceedings between the administration the MSM and assorted political actors. The have now seen the pictures, their partner was cheating on them in back rooms. Shocking.

Posted by: rapier | Oct 12 2005 21:54 utc | 8

b
thank you – i hope it is not just for my own concentration – but yes i have been reading emptywheels work, that suggested to me by conchita & annie – firedoglake – & americablog & huffington post in emergencies – i have read – not posted because for me this is my home & i remember something about the fact that trying to live in two houses will drive y around the twist – think he was quoting something sacred
there seems to be so many competing & often contradictory narratives
a) crimnals & thugs going one step too many
b) incompetence crashing into incompetence creating crime
c) cold & premeditated crime
d) a clever revenge by the cia in orchestrating an attack on the bush administration
e) an honest man (fitz) getting rid of a dirty crew – tho the dependance on the elliot ness untouchable mythology a litle bankrupt since elliot was as crooked as they come
f) a piece of jurisprudential burlesque in which everything is said but nothing happens
g) a very real attempt (in the mode of judges falcone/borselinno) to be the state in the absence of one
i am torn between a naked desire to see these crooks taken down in the most sordid way – in fact the way they have conducted business – as learned from atwater transmigrated into the monster robe
in the us how much coverage is it receiving – from here it does not seem a great deal & the european press has also not apeared to have written either
but i have an awful feeling that it is just a theatre of cruelty – much like the anticipated kerry victory & they will not only walk but profit from it – in the same way their slaughter of the people of iraq – is only in a real sense being confronted on the field of battle
as you know, b, thanks
in reading the other blogs it is chilling to feel the very real fear, getting caught up in the very real excitement

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 12 2005 23:31 utc | 9

I want to be wrong but I have to agree with giap. There is something not quite right about this whole Fitz charade. The NYT aticle which b has linked to certainly gives pause eg:
“In another development, four senior House Democrats wrote to Mr. Fitzgerald in a letter dated Oct. 12, urging him to issue a final report to Congress when he concludes his inquiry. Such a report, they said, should address “all indictments, convictions and any decisions not to prosecute.”
The letter was signed by the top Democrats on their respective committees: John Conyers Jr. of Michigan, Judiciary Committee; Jane Harman of California, Intelligence Committee; and Tom Lantos of California, International Relations Committee. The letter was also signed by Rush D. Holt of New Jersey, the senior Democrat on the intelligence panel’s policy subcommittee. “

Decisions not to prosecute? Whaaa! If these allegedly powerful Dems (yeah it is an oxymoron military intelligence blah blah) are really concerned that prosecutions aren’t going to follow from this process what is the real story? Pessimism abounds esp when the creep comes up with lines like:
“The special prosecutor is conducting a very serious investigation – he’s doing it in a very dignified way, by the way – and we’ll see what he says,” Mr. Bush said.
If the story is as outlined in the NYT today ie that Miller met with Scooter well before the Wilson opinion was published then Miller must have committed career suicide and has possibly taken the Times with her.
Miller was a happy shill for BushCo in the run up to the Iraqi invasion, so if she was in contact with BushCo apparatchiks like Libby before Wilson published, the most rational explanation I can come up with is that she alerted them to Wilson’s impending article.
All newsrooms have had to deal with moles from time to time it goes with the territory.
The most frequent manifestation of this is the low lifes who alert the police to potential whistleblowers and the like.
They do it because law enforcement is a major news source and giving up another reporters source will win them great access. Of course they rationalise this treachery to themself as ‘acting in the public interest to protect the good name of 99% of hard working honest cops out there’.
So Miller went to jail because she outed a source not because she was trying to protect one.
If that is true then NYT must have known this from very early in the proceedings in which case their acquiescence can only be a lame attempt to cover up a scandal. Particularly when Miller is involved since her PR work for the Iraqi slaughter destroyed what was left of NYT’s shredded credibility.
What a mess! As we have seen with both Delay and Frist these assholes hang on well past any normal person’s use by date, trying to keep power by any means not matter how unseemly that may be.
I appreciate that many people will be uncomfortable bringing down these assholes by denying them that much vaunted right (by lefties anyway) of outing CIA operatives.
Don’t worry about it! Bushco is bad and just because Plame and Wilson are fighting BushCo that doesn’t mean we are saying Plame/Wilson are ‘good’. We need to applaud this ugly group of mainchancers while they try and disembowel each other. But not because we like them or even respect their ‘work’.
We applaud because while they are tearing each other apart they are just too busy to be ruining our lives.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 13 2005 0:55 utc | 10

just reading the polls where only 2% of afroamericans support bush & within that scoe of error – that would amount to those who are employed directly by this criminal administration
from these shores it looks like it is all falling apart
but i am so sceptical
don’t know if it is just wish fulfillment & projection at work – but if fitzgerald really is focusin on the iraqi research group – he would be hitting the bullseye directly
too much to hope for
in any case they should take them out into the rose garden & shoot the lot of them – as fertilser – they may be more useful

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 13 2005 1:11 utc | 11

a part of the letterby democrat senators the dod refers to ;
When then-Deputy Attorney General James B. Comey announced your appointment on December 30, 2003, he stated that you would be a special counsel outside the Department’s normal chain of command. In fact, the letter indicating your appointment stated you would “exercise [the authority of Special Counsel] independent of the supervision or control of any officer of the Department.” Comey later clarified that not only did you have jurisdiction over the leak and any related offenses, such as conspiracy and perjury and obstruction of justice, but also that “[his] conferral on you of the title of ‘Special Counsel’ in this matter should not be misunderstood to suggest that your position and authorities are defined and limited by [the Department’s special counsel regulations].”
As a result, you have plenary authority to direct the investigation and notify the American public of your progress.”

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 13 2005 1:18 utc | 12

Debs, your worries are my worries. Why send a letter like that unless their noses to the wind say nothing much will happen. After all, they have been members of the peoples chamber of deputies for a long time, especially Conyers and they have full knowledge of the ass covering that takes place. I believe there will be some sacrificial lambs that may give some political capital to the dems. But they are all good ole boys and cover each others asses. Call me cynical. On the other hand, the dems are out of power and the case for abuse of power is what their pushing to the country. If someone gets off they can claim power abuse and have a campaign issue.
I talked to our congressman last night at a meeting. He talked about the rethugs and the heavy hand they use in DC. The latest energy bill that was passed by holding the vote open for 55 minutes was nothing but give aways to the energy industry. There were no consumer protections and any that are in it likely will be taken out in conference. He also said the MSM is afraid of the Bushies. He believes their scared to out the true nature of the admin. He was somewhat open, but didn’t want to be too political.
Over at Counterpunch Mike Vidal has a great article on class in the US. MOA readers should take a look. Maybe someone can link it since I’m not that swift.
I do think the public is starting to catch on and realize the admin is incompetant. That seems to be a theme the dems are pushing. I watched Kudlow and he had Stephen Moore (now writing for the WSJ and formerly with Club for Growth. sycophants always get rewarded) and Robert Riech who now teaches at a college on. Riech pushed the bad administrator line several times and incompetenace of the Bushies. It was great and Moore and Kudlow couldn’t argue the point.

Posted by: jdp | Oct 13 2005 1:22 utc | 13

here’s the link to the article jdp suggested

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 13 2005 1:32 utc | 14

Noisette, jj :
I think that the truly monstrous thing called the CIA may well be so affronted by the White House’s cavalier disrespect shown to it that it did put the wheels in motion to teach everyone involved a lesson : don’t you dare mess with the CIA.
Amy Goodman has an interview with Diana Ortiz, an American nun dealt with by the CIA in Guatamala. The crimes commited against her person are bad enough, the thousands of others who are not Americans, the Guatamalans, Salvadorans, Nicaraguans that we’ll never hear about, are just one more example of the war crimes the CIA has been committing for decades. You won’t find this sort of thing in the main stream media.
If anyone other than ourselves, the same old dismissable peanut gallery, were to pay any attention to Amy Goodman the CIA would take her out too. Less dramatically than Diana Ortiz, less subtly than Valerie Plame.

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Oct 13 2005 3:07 utc | 15

For a movie-based take on l’affaire Plame…try my Lady from Shanghai…it’s me putting on a trenchcoat and fedora, lighting a cigarette and walking into the fog of the investigation…
or something like that.

Posted by: kid oakland | Oct 13 2005 4:08 utc | 16

I’m not sure that the CIA is monolithic: there is the intel wing and there is the covert ops wing–and the two often make strange bedfellows. To my knowledge, the recent Porter Goss purging has been in the intel wing. They are the ones who are pissed; this is also where I believe Plame fits in. Their mission is far more defensible than their clubmates. They would seem to have a different–and far less lethal–set of tools with which to retaliate. Someone correct me if I am reading this wrong.
On a separate line of thought, I have this, perhaps stupid or ignorant, question. How come everyone is saying that Fitzgerald is running a tight, leakless operation, and yet everyday, seemingly, we are treated to one developing story after another from “sources close to the investigation.” Aren’t those leaks?

Posted by: Malooga | Oct 13 2005 4:22 utc | 17

@Malooga, those leaks may not be coming from Fitzy’s operation; they may be coming from lawyers for the NeoNuts trying to alert others what’s up so they can quickly cover their ass to whatever extent possible.
Debs wrote:
Miller was a happy shill for BushCo in the run up to the Iraqi invasion,
That’s really demeaning. She wasn’t a shill. She’s a PhD who has published books on ME. She’s a NeoNut Fellow Traveler. She’s in the same position/tradition as the Science Correspondent for NYT during WWII who was simultaneously on War Dept. PR payroll to convince Americans that Atomic Bombs were cool. This arrangement was struck in meeting bet. journo, Sulzberger himself I believe – else people just below him – & Pentagon Brass; a meeting that took place in offices of NYT. She should be regarded w/the same distaste. But this notion that she impugned the credibility of the Times, brought it down…No more than he did. Further, she has a longstanding association w/Danny Pipes, which must have been on her CV. They had to know what they were hiring. She was hired to advance the AIPAC policies. It’s a whole complex, for which she is being unduly singled out, I think. Maybe the real issue is that the Curtain is being pulled back on NYT & people are seeing it at its most naked that NYT is not neutral. It advances the Elite Agenda. That is its raison d’etre.
Ed Said calls her a member of the “Islamic Threat Industry. Here’s a review of a book she pub. in ’96 that gives a flavor of her & that industry. link
Also, it’s not clear what/who she was protecting. Recall the deal she made w/Fitzy when she got out was that she would only have to testify to discussions on one particular day. I suspect she’s protecting Cheney, perhaps Idiot-in-Chief & possibly info. about Ledeen & the forged documents as well.

Posted by: jj | Oct 13 2005 5:06 utc | 18

Bad syntax – the link above is to review written by Said.

Posted by: jj | Oct 13 2005 5:07 utc | 19

@jj
“That’s really demeaning. She wasn’t a shill. She’s a PhD who has published books on ME. She’s a NeoNut Fellow Traveler.”
Not to die in a ditch on this but I intended to be as demeaning as possible. Having a PhD simply means she’s an over achieving shill.
As far as I’m concerned any wingnut that claims a ‘good’ education is worse than a semi educated buffoon, because they have had access to the facts and to the tools to analyse facts, yet they have either chosen to ignore the obvious or are studies in the old “there’s nothing as silly as an educated fool” stereotype.
The rest of us didn’t need to go to Iraq to know there were no weapons of mass destruction there. Apart from the compelling idea that having WMD would not be in the interests of an ultimate pragmatist like Saddam Hussein any reasonable person could see that the so called eyewitnesses couldn’t lie straight in bed.
So Miller is a greedy shill or a stupid shill but just like the MD’s who claimed tobacco smoke was good for the lungs, whatever her motives, she is still a shill.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 13 2005 6:01 utc | 20

I don’t like Judith Miller, but I think Scooter pulled the fast one here. I imagine that he signed a waiver for July, but not June in that tricky way that liars fence off the lie. Miller was stuck saying that she couldn’t reveal her source for June notes and Scooter played dumb.

Posted by: steve expat | Oct 13 2005 6:03 utc | 21

Funny, jj. She was known in Iraq in the military circles in which she traveled – ah, was embedded with – as a ‘busy’ gal – that is, that she slept with her sources, perhaps to include the true buffoon she originally lassoed at DIA/Defense Humint Services.
Alabama was right about that, after all.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 13 2005 6:18 utc | 22

@pat
Bingo! pat, alabama pinged that one…
@debs
you and r’giap are on to something and you scare me w/that kinda talk…
@kid O
very appetizing prose on your ‘Lady from Shanghai’ post, to think I read that while listening to John Zorn’s Spillane with the lights out and half drunk on scotch…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 13 2005 6:41 utc | 23

when they stated they were just setting the record straight, that cheney wasn’t the one who sent wilson to niger, that set off my radar. hmm. doesn’t that strike you as a little strange? why wouldn’t cheney send him to niger, or instigate it? why wouldn’t cheney know who wilsom was? and why was their instinct was to protect him and steer the attention away from him. since lying is their forte i can only assume all roads lead to cheney. i’ll admit it may be a stretch to think wilson was sent to nigerbecause he had a wife who worked for the cia and could be the fall girl down the road, someone to blame, but not that much of a stretch. especially if you knew the document was a sham. remember, it didn’t matter if it was a shame, it just had to be an elaborate enough sham for there to be a question of its authenticity. so there is an ongoing debate, that just goes to prove there are different ideas, kind of like intellegent design, we should explore all options, right??? who was the person that touted the document around in speeches like a trophy, cheney.
fitzgerald is not going for the who outed valerie indictment. he’s on to the big stuff. conspiracy.
conyers is one of the signatories of the letter requesting the results of the investigation. no way conyers is not out to get cheney/bush. what the letter says to me is i want to know everything, including any reason you may have for not prosecuting. i wouldn’t read anything into it other than what it states.
so, imagine for a minute they knew who wilson was way back when. there was lots of hullabaloo about the 16 words before he even stated them in the state of the union. lots of putting them in and taking them out. whig was formed for the specific purpose of propaganda. these things were their babies, the centrefuges, the niger doc, the labs, the list goes on and on. all of it was bullshit and we know that so where is all the doubt now? how could they not know who wilson was? they are going to get outed. this is not about valerie. if you lie you are eventually going to get caught, and these guys believed they were invincible. it’s not about joe. they screwed the cia and maybe this was the cia screwing them back, lots of professionals got shoved around, people were angry. but their little payback backfired. i’m sure they never anticipated fitzgerald getting to the bottom of this. and the bottom leads all the way to the top.

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 6:51 utc | 24

Cheney’s role under scrutiny
Two officials close to Fitzgerald told RAW STORY they have seen documents obtained from the White House Iraq Group which state that Cheney was present at several of the group’s meetings. They say Cheney personally discussed with individuals in attendance at least two interviews in May and June of 2003 Wilson gave to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof and Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus, in which he claimed the administration “twisted” prewar intelligence and what the response from the administration should be.

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 7:03 utc | 25

Contempt Finding Is Lifted in Case of Times Reporter

A federal district judge here lifted a contempt order Wednesday against Judith Miller, a reporter for The New York Times, after she testified before a grand jury investigating the C.I.A. leak case about recently discovered notes relating to a conversation she had with a senior White House official.
The judge, Thomas F. Hogan, lifted the contempt finding several hours after Ms. Miller testified about the notes, which she took during a discussion on June 23, 2003, with I. Lewis Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff.

Okay Judy, now tell your story. Be assured that we will check it.

Posted by: b | Oct 13 2005 7:47 utc | 26

jj, yes, ok – my problem is that I can’t coordinate the trees and the forest!
I like RGiap’s list of narratives. I was just trying to get my mind around something like that list, and Poof! there it was on the board.
I’m still quite optimistic though, as annie says, Fitz. IS onto the ‘big stuff’.

Posted by: Noisette | Oct 13 2005 8:14 utc | 27

Digby with conservative journalist Robert George ahs an interesting post on how Miller may be the missing link between the British outing of David Kelly (who she was communicating with) and the Plame outing, which, as a reporter, she failed to report. Seems both Allastir Campbell (Blairs communication guru) and the White House Office of Global Communications (Iraqi propaganda central in the WH) were working in tandem to hoodwink their respective populations — Miller had to be in on these communications — Kelly was outed the same day Novak talked to Rove.

Posted by: anna missed | Oct 13 2005 8:23 utc | 28

@annie
OK that works too ie Conyers is concerned that Fitz may crack under the pressure and he’s trying to put Fitz between the proverbial rock and the other place. If Fitzgerald doesn’t push the prosecution as far as he can then he’ll have to answer to congress.
The third option is that Conyers and Fitz are playing good cop/bad cop with Cheney. They don’t really have any hard evidence against the heartless one but are trying to put him under pressure so that he either cracks and confesses (unlikely) or he throws a couple of vassals (Rove and Libby) to the wolves.
I hope you’re right but the reluctance of MSM to get onto this is astounding. Thirty years ago WaPo and NYT would have been beating the blogs every time.
Murdoch is playing both ends against the middle. Fox is delivering the usual wingnut spin on everything that they are forced to report on this but at the same time Reuters which is a wholly owned subsidiary of NewsCorp is leading the way with breaking a lot of this stuff on the wire services. That means that every nuance of Miller/Rove/Cheney/Fitz is making it out to the local print media everywhere as well as what’s left of regional news services.
So Murdoch himself isn’t certain which way this tree will fall but he must suspect that the BushCo days are coming to an end.
Murdoch has played this double game in Britain and Australia and once he gets Fox to make the news (ie turn on BushCo and start talking impeachment or more likely resignation) rather than just break the news, we will know it is all over.
The Dirty Digger may prefer a lunatic repug administration but he won’t let his personal feelings get in the way of making a dollar. If BushCo are definitely on the slippery slope Fox will need to maintain their credibility with the looney toons without getting ahead of them.
They will reluctantly explain to their moronic sheeple that there is something rotten in the State of Denmark and much as they still love Dubya, his open honesty has allowed him to be sucked in by the grifter Rove just the way we all have so that in the interests of the USA and much as it pains Bill O’Reilly to say this W had better do the right thing and get the pistol from the top drawer.
Even tho the rest of the world will be cursing and spewing up bile it’s probably the best way out. We’ve already seen in the blogs lately how these luzers just won’t accept reality if it means they have to admit they were played like an old tin whistle.
Therefore if we really want to stop the slaughter of any more Iraqi citizens without crazed redneck wingnuts taking to the street with assault rifles and missile launchers I suppose the sleazy Murdoch method will deliver that.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 13 2005 8:49 utc | 29

Debs,
………….we all have so that in the interests of the USA and much as it pains Bill O’Reilly to say this W had better do the right thing and get the pistol from the top drawer.
And that gun in the drawer, could it be Saddam’s personal sidearm, yes that would be perfect.

Posted by: anna missed | Oct 13 2005 9:32 utc | 30

“She was known in Iraq in the military circles in which she traveled – ah, was embedded with – as a ‘busy’ gal – that is, that she slept with her sources, perhaps to include the true buffoon she originally lassoed at DIA/Defense Humint Services.”
There is an urban legend type story about Miller borrowing somebody’s apartment in Beruit for the weekend. Owner comes home, finds Miller’s notes written on the bedsheets.

Posted by: Billmon | Oct 13 2005 13:47 utc | 31

Burried in this piece is a gem

New York Times reporter Judith Miller testified for a second time in the CIA leak case yesterday, providing new details about a previously undisclosed conversation she had with Vice President Cheney’s chief of staff about the diplomat at the center of the 22-month investigation.

The June 23 conversation would be significant if Miller and Libby discussed Plame, the lawyers in the case said. If they did, it could help Fitzgerald establish that Libby was involved in an administration effort to unmask Plame weeks before she was publicly outed by conservative columnist Robert D. Novak in the middle of July.
As early as May of that year, Cheney’s office was actively seeking information about Wilson from the CIA, according to former senior administration officials. Libby was aware of the diplomat and his mission by the time he talked with a Washington Post reporter in early June. By then — one month before Plame was unmasked — the State Department had prepared a memo on the Niger mission that contained information in a section marked “(S)” for secret. Colin L. Powell, then secretary of state, brought the memo on a trip to Africa by President Bush in the days before Novak’s column was published.

The reporter is Jim VandeHei and I bet he does have his sources straight (Powell and who?).

Posted by: b | Oct 13 2005 15:49 utc | 32

about those niger docs
the link provides access to the live interview. worth the ride

In an interview on July 26, 2005, Cannistraro’s business partner and columnist for the “American Conservative” magazine, former CIA counter terrorism officer Philip Giraldi, confirmed to Scott Horton that the forgeries were produced by “a couple of former CIA officers who are familiar with that part of the world who are associated with a certain well-known neoconservative who has close connections with Italy.” When Horton said that must be Ledeen, he confirmed it, and added that the ex-CIA officers, “also had some equity interests, shall we say, with the operation. A lot of these people are in consulting positions, and they get various, shall we say, emoluments in overseas accounts, and that kind of thing.”
In a second interview with Horton, Giraldi elaborated to say that Ledeen and his former CIA friends worked with Ahmad Chalabi and the Iraqi National Congress. “These people did it probably for a couple of reasons, but one of the reasons was that these people were involved, through the neoconservatives, with the Iraqi National Congress and Chalabi and had a financial interest in cranking up the pressure against Saddam Hussein and potentially going to war with him.”

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 16:00 utc | 33

We are still replaying in our minds those old movies of the CIA from way back when, like “The Quiet American”. The CIA and Porter Goss have been cut down to a second string support Agency. John Negroponte, the intelligence czar, and his staff alone has the President’s ear.
Like CIA Analysts we all are nearing the truth but since our intelligence is faulty we are missing some of the scheming at the White House.
The White House and 10 Downing Street sold the Iraq Invasion on hyped intelligence. Some of the lower level players were leaking the truth about the intelligence. Without regard to the law or consequences, the White House Iraq Working Group decided to nip the leaks at the bud by discrediting one source and his wife. An ever pliant corporate media went along. Except, Robert Novak went too far and named Valerie Plame which, after the fact, was pointed out to be against the law.
What is unknown right now is, if corporate American and the GOP have so corrupted politics and the legal system, that members of the Iraq Working Group will free walk.

Posted by: Jim S | Oct 13 2005 16:08 utc | 34

Those fake docs. were old news. No one who might have wanted to boost their authenticity or have them taken seriously would have sent anyone, much less Joe Wilson, to Niger to check things out.
Sending Wilson could only have the aim of showing the matter WAS taken seriously, it WAS looked into, and the story was shown to be absurd. How could Saddam buy 25% of Niger’s yearly yellowcake production? Impossible.
Once Joe went, and returned, how could anyone be surprised at the result?
Subsequently why take ‘revenge’ on Wilson?
It is true that his various communications were a bit bothersome, but so what? Those Bushies are very good at ignoring people who contradict them, or spinning…One says: So, those documents were of doubtful authenticity, and El Baradei, the expert has finally said they are fakes, but there have been rumors about Saddam etc. etc. You backpedal, softly, and maintain the threat still exists…
Revenge for actions that he was surely expected to carry out and weren’t, after all, very extraordinary?
I mean, Rove, Cheney, are supposed to be a master strategists ?  
Revenge on Wilson is carried out by outing his wife?  
Not credible.  
It didn’t harm him, so where is the revenge?  One might imagine the aim was to threaten him to shut him up (“worse to come”), but even a 10-year-old could figure out that that wouldn’t work; and it didn’t.
Because it vindicated his position – he and his opinions suddenly became terribly important:
as someone somewhere in the power stratosphere was ready to commit high treason to have revenge on him
No.  No!  
Fellow board members, this is fantasy for the public. I knew that for sure when I saw the photo of the happy couple on the mag. cover. I don’t know everything Wilson has said about this matter, but he and his wife, it seems to me, have done everything they can to normalise, downplay, rationalise and explain the astonishing event of a Gvmt. outing its own spy!
The Plame outing is related to something else – some larger plot – some other matters underground. That act of high treason was an emergency measure, maybe clumsy, prompted by panic due to time pressure. If it was related to Wilson, it was so only tangentially.
David Kelly was also outed at the same time. The first 2 weeks of July 2003 will be picked over by historians for decades.
Slate (July 25, 2003) lists Miller’s dodgy reporting to that point:
Link
I must be boring people… I admit that on this matter I am not superbly informed and quite pig-headed. I was busy figuring out what happened to David Kelly and how the whitewash would proceed. Kelly was also outed for completely trivial reasons.

Posted by: Noisette | Oct 13 2005 16:16 utc | 35

@ Noisette
Yes, kelly is important to keep in mind here, thanks for being pig headed…
Of all the atrocities that have taken place, the kelly situation haughts me the most.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 13 2005 17:07 utc | 36

@Noisette –
Sorry, I can’t buy that the Wilson hit was what you claim. It seems far more credible to me that the Bushies are small-minded, petty, and plan only for the next cycle of polls. They’re really good at planning for the next cycle of polls, but they have no long-term planning beyond that. That’s why they outed Plame – it doesn’t make sense in hindsight, but then, neither does invading Iraq.
The same lack of foresight is part of the sending-Wilson-to-Niger. They probably thought he was a team player, and if things didn’t work out, they had plenty of other flimsy evidence that they BELIEVED. I think the Bushies, most of them at least, actually believed most of the lies they spewed. There is plenty of historical precedent for a group of idealogues blinded by groupthink believing falsehoods in the face of all evidence. So they sent Wilson with full confidence he’d succeed.

Posted by: Rowan | Oct 13 2005 17:09 utc | 37

It’s so much sexier to focus on sexual hostility to JMiller, than to tackle the Institutional problem of NYT. Pat & Billmon’s post show that – nahhh…we wanna talk about sex…who’d she sleep w/….
Let’s Make a Deal. After the NYT become an institution devoted to journalism, we’ll get to that.
Jim S:
We are still replaying in our minds those old movies of the CIA from way back when, like “The Quiet American”. The CIA and Porter Goss have been cut down to a second string support Agency. John Negroponte, the intelligence czar, and his staff alone has the President’s ear.
I couldn’t agree more. This was intended to restore their luster, but it’s moved so much more slowly than this Extremist Administration. This becomes CIA’s last hurrah – shootout at the empty saloon. And Negroponte is the Most Dangerous Man in America. Would have been far better served by Charlie Chaplin Kerik who would merely have strutted about for the cameras. Welcome to El Salvador …and thanks to the JackAss Party for this.

Posted by: jj | Oct 13 2005 17:09 utc | 38

Re: Noisette 12:16
…and further to that if it has not so far been mentioned here, Brewster Jennings was getting real close to popping open a hornets nest.
Cheney is closely involved with the Pakistani Khan and his blackmarketing nukes worldwide. It is BIG and it goes back for many years, including BCCI and a lot of players.
It was urgent that Brewster Jennings be imploded before the damage was done, regardless of the consequences, because the alternative was worse than risking treason charges. And of course I suppose Cheney thought he had himself well covered, since it is very likely isn’t it that his lieutenants are fellow perps.
Rove has a different agenda though, and so does Rummy; not really on Cheney’s team. Poor Dick – he’s finally bit off more than he can chew. One could call it greed but I’m still convinced that it is a very nasty and well developed agenda, focused on global domination, population reduction, stuff like that.
Cheney is not the top guy; he is working for still undisclosed bosses. I’d assume that Fitz is aware of all of this and much more; he’ll have a helluva time bringing down the whole shebang, but at least he can do some serious damage.
Perhaps the better side of the Company has enough power to neutralise somewhat those evil forces that shoved the dagger in their gut. What an interesting game huh.

Posted by: rapt | Oct 13 2005 17:24 utc | 39

@Noisette –
I don´t think there is, as you suggest, more behind this than what Digby summarizes and all of us for the last three years have witnessed:

There was a concerted, organized propaganda campaign out of Downing Street and the White House to sell the Iraq war. It wasn’t bad intelligence. It wasn’t even “sexed-up” intelligence. It was lies and propaganda, pure and simple. When Dr Kelly and Joseph Wilson pulled back the curtain in the spring of 2003, the powers that be on both sides of the atlantic played the hardest of hardball.

They didn´t expect the hardball to come back in their direction, but that is what is happening now.
I wonder how and when this will restart the process in Britain where Blair did exactly the same and coordinated with Bush what Bush did to the US. Who killed Kelly?

Posted by: b | Oct 13 2005 17:25 utc | 40

@rapt and noisette
For both of your theories to work, Cheney must have specifically demanded that Wilson would be send to Niger. Only that way he could have made sure for “shuting down Brewster Jennings” or such.
All sources so far, even those against Cheney, have said that Cheney requested more information on the issue and was not aware of Wilson to be send. Unless something pops up that suggests otherwise your theories are unfounded.

Posted by: b | Oct 13 2005 17:39 utc | 41

Bernhard: “…your theories are unfounded.”
Strong statement b, in view of the fact that:
1) Cheney had plenty of help, and no reason to go on (even hidden) record to send Wilson to Niger. It has been plausibly suggested that Wilson and probably wife Plame were in on the deal, given their behaviour after the “outing.”
and 2) That Cheney had a lot to lose if Brewster Jennings was indeed close to blowing his cover.
3) It has been pointed out that the theory of revenge against Wilson holds no water: the docs in question were already known to be forgeries. It makes a lot more sense that the script was written to provide an excuse to shut down Brewster Jennings.
4) After all these years of being lied to, led into unnecessary wars and all, the whole scenario reeks of duplicity. We’ve watched em work before and this fits their game to a T.

Posted by: rapt | Oct 13 2005 18:09 utc | 42

It has been plausibly suggested that Wilson and probably wife Plame were in on the deal
Wilson is doing whatever he can to get them frog-marched – with some success one might say. Why should he do so in your scenario? A coverup of the coverup of the coverup …?

Posted by: b | Oct 13 2005 18:56 utc | 43

OK I’ll retract that part if you will modify the “unfounded.” Deal?

Posted by: rapt | Oct 13 2005 19:18 utc | 44

I think the Bushies, most of them at least, actually believed most of the lies they spewed.
i think this is nothing short of delusional. if they believed it they wouldn’t have to play the spin game, they could have just gone w/truth. the first niger doc didn’t cause any traction. they needed those letter heads.
Those fake docs. were old news. No one who might have wanted to boost their authenticity or have them taken seriously would have sent anyone, much less Joe Wilson, to Niger to check things out. Sending Wilson could only have the aim of showing the matter WAS taken seriously, it WAS looked into, and the story was shown to be absurd. How could Saddam buy 25% of Niger’s yearly yellowcake production? Impossible.
i can agree to disagree

“They always had information to back up their public claims, but it was often very bad information,” Pollack continued. “They were forcing the intelligence community to defend its good information and good analysis so aggressively that the intelligence analysts didn’t have the time or the energy to go after the bad information.”
The Administration eventually got its way, a former C.I.A. official said. “The analysts at the C.I.A. were beaten down defending their assessments. And they blame George Tenet”—the C.I.A. director—“for not protecting them. I’ve never seen a government like this.”

tenet made a point of stating the cia sent wilson ‘on their own initiative’ . yet to this day know one can quite remember who’s idea it was. there were some people at the meeting but know one person thought of wilson. again, would someone tell me what would be the point of making an issue of claiming cheney had nothing to do w/sending him? makes no sense.( unless they are protecting him) it’s established cheney initiated sending someone . and yet there is some great significance w/everyone distancing him from knowing who wilson is. the lie started early . why would cheney push push push and then just not even know about the trip. absurd.

“The Vice-President also defended the way in which he had involved himself in intelligence matters: “This is a very important area. It’s one that the President has asked me to work on. . . . In terms of asking questions, I plead guilty. I ask a hell of a lot of questions. That’s my job.”

HERSH

Cheney’s office claimed to have no knowledge of Wilson or his report: “The vice president doesn’t know Joe Wilson and did not know about his trip until he read about it in the press,” said the vice president’s spokeswoman, Catherine Martin. Cheney’s position was supported by Tenet, who said Wilson’s trip was made on “the CIA’s own initiative.”

this is from ’03. and we know now this is a lie because cheney met w/whig prior to wilson’s editorial.

“They always had information to back up their public claims, but it was often very bad information,” Pollack continued. “They were forcing the intelligence community to defend its good information and good analysis so aggressively that the intelligence analysts didn’t have the time or the energy to go after the bad information.” The Administration eventually got its way, a former C.I.A. official said. “The analysts at the C.I.A. were beaten down defending their assessments. And they blame George Tenet”—the C.I.A. director—“for not protecting them. I’ve never seen a government like this.”

cheney’s motive for distancing himself from the niger trip was because he wanted to use the docs to push his war. acknowledging awareness of the debunking meant he couldn’t

The intelligence report was quickly stovepiped to those officials who had an intense interest in building the case against Iraq, including Vice-President Dick Cheney. “The Vice-President saw a piece of intelligence reporting that Niger was attempting to buy uranium,” Cathie Martin, the spokeswoman for Cheney, told me. Sometime after he first saw it, Cheney brought it up at his regularly scheduled daily briefing from the C.I.A., Martin said. “He asked the briefer a question. The briefer came back a day or two later and said, ‘We do have a report, but there’s a lack of details.’ ” The Vice-President was further told that it was known that Iraq had acquired uranium ore from Niger in the early nineteen-eighties but that that material had been placed in secure storage by the I.A.E.A., which was monitoring it. “End of story,” Martin added. “That’s all we know.” According to a former high-level C.I.A. official, however, Cheney was dissatisfied with the initial response, and asked the agency to review the matter once again. It was the beginning of what turned out to be a year-long tug-of-war between the C.I.A. and the Vice-President’s office

one in which cheney was unaware of the wilson trip? no way

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 19:52 utc | 45

@rapt – as I see it your theory is depending on a long line of logic steps based on “facts”. I ripped a part of that line as you concede and unless you somehow resupply that part your “chain of evidence” is no chain and there is not reason for me to modify “unfounded”.
This is nothing to “deal” about. I want to know what has happend and how, and what is happening today and why.
The “case” we all have know to one extend or another is rapidly closing now. All the links, facts, reports we have collected and digested since the USG started to use the, in contrast, minor incident of 9/11, for their agenda are coming to light.
Many items will still be kept away but I think the press, thanks to Fitzgerald, is now about to start this over. Unfounded theories don´t help that process.

Posted by: b | Oct 13 2005 19:54 utc | 46

Rowan, yes, I have also thought of exactly that – a sort Keystone cops scenario, where the powerful hold the strings, act serious, shuffle papers, and don’t think things out properly. Mental winks and nudges and passing on to cocktails or golf does the trick!
At one point, I even thought that the outing of Plame was just a silly mistake, like gossip getting about in a big Corp (Melanie is sleeping with Big Boss, and no one even knows who mentioned that first or doped it out..but is is TRUE..!) but that idea doesn’t fly…high treason: and there you are, Fitz is on the trail. Those consequences would have been understood.
That they “sent” Wilson to Niger, without thinking it out or bothering about potential consequences – not serious in any case – at all, yes, that is possible. Quite likely.
My idea is that the two matters (Wilson sounding off, Plame outed) are not direclty linked (or right now shouldn’t be seen as such) and have been linked artificially.
Yes, b, others, I am not clear on exactly how Wilson came to go to Niger, and if Cheney actually agreed, etc.

Posted by: Noisette | Oct 13 2005 19:56 utc | 47

sorry, i just realized i used that quote twice

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 19:56 utc | 48

“The same lack of foresight is part of the sending-Wilson-to-Niger. They probably thought he was a team player, and if things didn’t work out, they had plenty of other flimsy evidence that they BELIEVED. I think the Bushies, most of them at least, actually believed most of the lies they spewed.”
Oh, they absolutely believed it, Rowan – as did those of the Iraq Survey Group who went in search of the nonexistent weapons. It was the number one White House priority upon the ‘fall’ of Baghdad. One of the things they most ardently hoped to find was weapons components they could positively connect to certain despised European countries.
They believed it all right. And I don’t think anyone was more surprised than they when the ISG turned up empty-handed. The sell was that good.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 13 2005 20:00 utc | 49

Don’t knock the gossip, jj. It lets us know a little more about our friend Judy, for whose ‘expert’ analysis and opinions so many, many Americans and Iraqis have gone to their graves.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 13 2005 20:09 utc | 50

Mmmmft…I’m struggling behind the gag b.
I’ve always hated having or reading these person-to-person arguments, so I will stop now.
One last thing though; the role of the Wilson couple in my chain of speculation has little or no bearing on whether or why Cheney (may have) ordered the trashing of Brewster Jennings. The fact is it was done. And the Company is hitting back. And the Company will win.

Posted by: rapt | Oct 13 2005 20:37 utc | 51

I know this is good fun and I hate to spoil it but we all have a tendency to see life imitating art.
Some are choosing to see this ‘Plamegate’ mess as a Len Deighton novel (Crook, Whine and Blinkered?). Incredibly smart people doing incredibly devious things to each other for flimsy motives.
Me, I found life to be more like LeCarre. People who think they are smart, actually revealing how petty they are by using their access to power to try and chase out their personal dijins. The end result is inevitable self destruction.
Hubris is one of my favourite words when it comes to these sort of power players. Let’s face it ‘normal’ people don’t devote every waking moment to accumulating power. Washington and BushCo in particular is awash with these types.
The reason ‘normal’ people don’t do it is because we realise how fleeting those moments of feeling the world at your feet are. In addition we’re not sociopaths so we have our parade pissed on when the regret over those who have been hurt or disadvantaged by our actions sticks its ugly visage over the parapet.
These mainchancers don’t feel that. Some really powerful urge (I always tend to go with deep self hatred) motivates them to push push push to control their environment they way they want it.
The thing is though all of this pushing is just as tiresome for them as it would be for anyone so once a certain amount of success has been achieved they can assume that this success is theirs by right and they no longer need to take care of the minor details. Hubris.
The fall becomes inevitable because even those that do recognise that the i’s still need to be dotted often get someone else to do it for them and that is when they can become really unstuck.
Although somone just like oneself is needed for the task it is rare for a power junkie to put a clone below themselves.
Maybe it is because they worry about being backstabbed or maybe because they have this deep self hatred they believe that anyone too much like themselves is as contemptible as they are. Whatever it is even if it’s merely that no one can take care of business as well as someone doing it for themselves, ‘powers behind the throne’ like Rove, Libby even Cheney have always come unstuck.
Thomas Becket is one of my favorites of the genre. He became so deluded by power he imagined that his machinations were actually God’s work.
Rather like some of the rethugs have tried to justify their deceits by claiming to serve the Judeo Xtian god. The link I have provided is to a Catholic site which bestowed sainthood upon this unabashed English Machiavelli so they are more sympathetic to Beckett than I reckon he deserves.
Anyway the point I am making so laboriously this morning is that we shouldn’t fall for these guy’s claims of omnipotence or invincibility. What goes up does come down and these creeps are just that.
Deeply flawed characters behaving as creeps have always behaved and getting their comeuppance as creeps usually do.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 13 2005 20:42 utc | 52

Debs, one source of the self-hatred among the elite comes from how they are raised. Grow up in an environment that tells them they’re superior to others; however, raised by Employees – governesses/au pairs etc…. There’s a very deep self-hatred that comes from feeling that you’re so unimportant, worthless perhaps worse, that someone has to be paid to be with you.

Posted by: jj | Oct 13 2005 21:06 utc | 53

A Strategy of Lies: How the White House Fed the Public a Steady Diet of Falsehoods

The 56-page investigation was assembled by USAF Colonel (Ret.) Sam Gardiner. “Truth from These Podia: Summary of a Study of Strategic Influence, Perception Management, Strategic Information Warfare and Strategic Psychological Operations in Gulf II” identifies more than 50 stories about the Iraq war that were faked by government propaganda artists in a covert campaign to “market” the military invasion of Iraq.
Gardiner has credentials. He has taught at the National War College, the Air War College and the Naval Warfare College and was a visiting scholar at the Swedish Defense College.
According to Gardiner, “It was not bad intelligence” that lead to the quagmire in Iraq, “It was an orchestrated effort [that] began before the war” that was designed to mislead the public and the world. Gardiner’s research lead him to conclude that the US and Britain had conspired at the highest levels to plant “stories of strategic influence” that were known to be false.
The Times of London described the $200-million-plus US operation as a “meticulously planned strategy to persuade the public, the Congress, and the allies of the need to confront the threat from Saddam Hussein.”

In Strauss’ view, liberal democracies such as the Weimar Republic are not viable in the long term, since they do not offer their citizens any religious and moral footings. The practical consequence of this philosophy is fatal. According to its tenets, the elites have the right and even the obligation to manipulate the truth. Just as Plato recommends, they can take refuge in “pious lies” and in selective use of the truth.
Der Spiegel 
whig knew exactly what they were doing IMHO

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 21:08 utc | 54

Maybe I should clarify – I don’t believe simply that the Bushies are delusional idiots, and I doubt you believe they’re simply a powerhungry conspiracy. I don’t think we’re too far apart, just a focus on the motivations is slightly different – seven on one side, a hand on the other.
A better description of what I think of them is that they’re intelligent idealogues who had the a priori conviction that Iraq was a problem for a variety of reasons, and needed to be dealt with, and they could do it and do it well. They devoted their time to finding evidence of this (the OSP) and attempted to incorporate other events into this conviction (“go big…I want it all swept up, Iraq and Saddam”). Any possible evidence which could be found to support this theory, like the yellowcake, was good. And even if it wasn’t precisely true in fact, it was true that Saddam probably would have wanted to build nuclear weapons. So the actual physical fact that the yellowcake line was irrelevant compared to the fact they’d already decided upon.
In the face of the a priori convictions, the evidence becomes irrelevant.

Posted by: Rowan | Oct 13 2005 22:25 utc | 55

I doubt you believe they’re simply a powerhungry conspiracy
i wouldn’t say they are simply a powerhungry conspiracy.
do i believe they are powerhungry? oh yeah
do i think they have acted w/conspiracy towards the american public? damn straight i do.
but the ‘simply’ part i will agree with.

Posted by: annie | Oct 13 2005 22:51 utc | 56

The “simply” is the important part, I think. Powerhungry of course. Conspiracy? Well, PNAC is still there, still with its list of the major players on its Statement of Principles. In my mind, “conspiracy” involves secrecy, but the Whigs have by and large left too easy a paper trail to follow for it to be secret.

Posted by: Rowan | Oct 13 2005 23:03 utc | 57

WHIG

The White House Iraq Group operated virtually unknown until January 2004, when Fitzgerald subpoenaed for notes, email and attendance records. Bush Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. created the group in August of 2002.

if you have any access to a paper trail i’m sure we would all like to see it. i’d say they operated in secret. perhaps not as secret as cheney’s energy meetings which they fought tooth and nail to keep private(all those maps of iraqi oil fields) along with the list of attendees.
a priori conviction that Iraq was a problem for a variety of reasons, and needed to be dealt with,
perhaps they were also considering the assets iraq had to offer, not to mention the financial opportunities for all their friends. would one of those problems you mentioned be the eventual lifting of the sanctions, OPEC and sadams choice to deal in euro’s? face it , they have never operated w/transparency.

Posted by: annie | Oct 14 2005 0:34 utc | 58

b
this particular issue of the ‘suicide’ of dr kelly – which has always seemed to me to be a murder – pure & simple – he held the goods & tthe ‘suicide’ beggars belief & is not consistent with other know facts & all the prehistory of kelly. having worked throughout that sphere most people who live meticulously, suicide meticulously
the murdering of kelly is absolutely consistent with assasinations carrued out in the cold war – under the name of suicides, car accidents, heart attack & assorted masks of essentially criminal acts
this murder – is to me somehow essential & why digby’s anaysis for me has some weight. one aspect of leading up to this criminal & immoral war was an accumulation of ‘small’ criminal acts that went the whole gamut from assasination to slander & defamation
the not incidental murders of journalists & scholars within iraq itself in the first six months is also consistent with that
i know i’m being absolutely speculative – but the members of this administration that were taught through the barbarity of their acts & interventions in afghanistan & in latin america – are people accustomd to murder as a continuation of policy
from the fake elections of 2000 to now there is no such thing as politics as usual
what is clear through the mist that there are contending factions within the elites of america who are fighting it out amongst themselves & somehow this case is a kind of crucible

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 14 2005 0:36 utc | 59

strange, my last post got ‘lost’
WHIG

The White House Iraq Group operated virtually unknown until January 2004, when Fitzgerald subpoenaed for notes, email and attendance records. Bush Chief of Staff Andrew H. Card Jr. created the group in August of 2002.

i’d say they operated in secrecy. if you have access to any paper trail i’m sure we would all like to see it. maybe they haven’t guarded their meeting w/as much secrecy as cheney’s energy meetings but this administration is known for its lack of transparency
a prior conviction that Iraq was a problem for a variety of reasons, and needed to be dealt with
what about iraq’s many assets? what about the opportunities for financial gain thru all those no bid contracts? what about the lifting of the sanctions,OPEC and sadams future use of the euro. iraq may have been a problem but not the one the american public was focused on after 9/11.

Posted by: annie | Oct 14 2005 0:43 utc | 60

@r’giap speaking of MURDER
let’s not forget our director of national intellegence

Posted by: annie | Oct 14 2005 0:52 utc | 61

Hey, Patrick Fitzgerald!
You’re going to indict Michael Ledeen and his CIA buddies for forging those Niger uranium documents, right?
The part that’s missing from this tale is that Michael Ledeen’s trip to Italy included Larry Franklin, now known to have been spying for Israel when he worked in the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 14 2005 1:00 utc | 62

@Annie
A very telling point about the fact that Iraq was ready to go to the
Euro for oil trading. It’s all about the money.”Show me the money!”
Not too much in the MSM about the fact that Iran is about to open their own oil bourse based on the Euro.”OMG!Iran has weapons of mass destruction”

Posted by: possum | Oct 14 2005 1:05 utc | 63

A year ago the head of the NRO (name escapes me) was still saying that he believed the illicit weapons had been moved over the Iraq/Syria border just before the war and that this accounts for ISG’s failure to uncover them. That is – maybe still is – his honest-to-God opinion. Those in the national security/defense establishment who believed are many. And they didn’t begin believing upon reading that last, crucial NIE. They believed for years and there was no shaking that belief. Anything that contradicted it, that called it into question, was duly noted and promptly ignored. This is not an uncommon problem among professional intel analysts – it certainly cannot be less uncommon among those who aren’t.
How long will Michael Ledeen genuinely believe that Iran is the center of gravity of Islamist terrorism? Til the day he dies. There’s no convincing him otherwise. And Ledeen’s not alone. Never underestimate the power of conviction. People believe all kinds of goofy things, and can be quite elaborate – not to mention dryly academic and fully sober – in the defense of those things.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 14 2005 1:13 utc | 64

Pentagon Plans to Beef Up Domestic Rapid-Response Forces
Translation: The US Government knows they have pushed the population to the edge of rebellion. On the eve of complete US economic banruptcy, the growing awareness that the government lied us all into a war of conquest and they know the flashpoint is upon them.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 14 2005 1:26 utc | 65

Uncle $cam,
Ledeen didn’t approve of OIF – thought it was the wrong war, the wrong place, the wrong time. He’s always been very clear about his choice for regime change, and it was never a change of regime in Baghdad that he sought – nor did he hopefully evision us tackling Teheran once Saddam was in the bag. To Ledeen, Iraq is simply the most unfortunate distraction from the war against The Terror Masters in Iran. Not to say he’s without involvement, but I’d be very surprised if it were significant. He’s been burned once anyhow and is damaged goods. Poor choice of a freelancer if indeed he was picked up for that, which I doubt.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 14 2005 1:41 utc | 66

Correction: This is not an uncommon problem among professional intel analysts – it certainly cannot be *more* uncommon among those who aren’t.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 14 2005 1:56 utc | 67

To combine possum and r-giap’s musings: Maybe the conflict among the elites concerns attacking Iran. Sy Hersh says Bush is ready to do it. Maybe this Hullabaloo is meant tie the Bush Junta’s hands and thwart the attack from taking place, by the more reality based elites like Scowcroft, Brzezinski, and Kissinger (It’s frightening to think of these crooks as “The Good Guys”) who rightly fear global conflagration. Remember, there are reports of mutiny among the Mossad: What bigger issue can they have to argue over? They’re certainly not arguing about being nice to the Palestinians! On the other hand, Condosleezy is currently making the rounds in Central Asia, shoring up our bases in the ‘Stans, and perhaps securing permission for the attack? I don’t know, but these are scary times. A cornered junta like this will wag the whole pack-a-dog’s tails.

Posted by: Malooga | Oct 14 2005 2:07 utc | 68

I don’t know, but these are scary times.
i second that, but there’s hope. we are here.
Democracy: The God That Failed

Chalmers Johnson, the trenchant critic of American militarism, has characterized the U.S. as an “empire of bases,” and what we are witnessing is the extension of this global system of linked launching pads for American military intervention from Kyrgyzstan to Ukraine to Iraq. This, and not the creation of genuine liberal democratic societies, is our real foreign policy objective. Ukraine is preparing to enter NATO, so that Western troops and weaponry will soon be poised 15 minutes from Moscow. Iraq, too, is the future site of permanent U.S. military bases, and there are ample signs that we are already digging in for the long haul.

Posted by: annie | Oct 14 2005 2:19 utc | 69

@ pat This is not an uncommon problem among professional intel analysts – it certainly cannot be *more* uncommon among those who aren’t.
i’m not following you. what is not an uncommon problem? could you elaborate. w/ regards to leeden?

Posted by: annie | Oct 14 2005 2:23 utc | 71

pat,yikes, sorry, i see which post you were referring to
malooga, rad article, thanks
hi possum, long time

Posted by: annie | Oct 14 2005 2:40 utc | 72

annie
negroponte was precisely my point
there is a whole cadre of these murderers who got their training from the elders who happily slaughtered & imprisoned vietnamese indonesians filipinos, greeks & latin americans & who went into the slaughterhouses of el salvador, guatemala & nicaragua with an intent so evil – so psychopathic that it would have shamed even the brothers dulles
lancet has placed the deaths in iraq as approachin 200,000 – but the ‘incidental’ murders & attempted assasinations of italian journalists for example are behind the crimes of the quite clearly insane rove
i will not forget that behind whatever jurisprudential activity fitzgerald is attempting is the kind of crimes that would more suitably take place at the international crime tribunal
this crew might be abl to buy, suborn or pervert the cause of justice but i deeply believe that one day justice will be visited upon them in ways they have never imagined
i hope one day the murder of david kelly will be revealed for what & while people here know i have no truck with conspiracy theorists – it also seemed to me the death of robin cook was extremely convenenient – too convenient
the british have always been the servant in the special relationship with the us & what has happened with efficace critics of policies in iraq – also have their roots in the campaign by colby, james jesus angleton & others to demonise harold wilson their effective silencing of the ‘left’ within the labour party
this to say – that their crimes are endlessly sordid & appear to be endless – i deeply wish that fitzgerald can place a pause in their activity

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 14 2005 2:51 utc | 73

I concur, please do elaborate on ledeen, Malooga.
Ledeen suggests we should support “democratic revolution” throughout the Middle East, isn’t Iraq, just a means to the real goal for ledeen? Which is to say, Iran. Or are you saying Bush has screwed the pooch on Iraq, thereby frustrating and cockblocking ledeen’s salivating megolomaniac dreams of conquest.
This from American Conservative:
Flirting with Fascism
Neocon theorist Michael Ledeen draws more from Italian fascism than from the American Right.
@annie
Chalmers Johnson, kicks ass, I hear him talk on campus last year.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 14 2005 2:55 utc | 74

a little history – of wars & journalistc hores & tyrants & common murder by john pilger :
Remembering Suharto, the West’s Fallen Hero. Nothing Has Changed.
    By John Pilger
    t r u t h o u t | Perspective
    Thursday 13 October 2005
    “The propagandist’s purpose,” wrote Aldous Huxley, “is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human.” The British, who invented modern war propaganda and inspired Joseph Goebbels, were specialists in the field. At the height of the slaughter known as the First World War, the prime minister, David Lloyd George, confided to C P Scott, editor of the Manchester Guardian: “If people really knew [the truth], the war would be stopped tomorrow. But of course they don’t know, and can’t know.”
    What has changed?
    “If we had all known then what we know now,” said the New York Times on 24 August, “the invasion [of Iraq] would have been stopped by a popular outcry.” The admission was saying, in effect, that powerful newspapers, like powerful broadcasting organisations, had betrayed their readers and viewers and listeners by not finding out – by amplifying the lies of Bush and Blair instead of challenging and exposing them. The direct consequences were a criminal invasion called “Shock and Awe” and the dehumanising of a whole nation.
    This remains largely an unspoken shame in Britain, especially at the BBC, which continues to boast about its rigour and objectivity while echoing a corrupt and lying government, as it did before the invasion. For evidence of this, there are two academic studies available – though the capitulation of broadcast journalism ought to be obvious to any discerning viewer, night after night, as “embedded” reporting justifies murderous attacks on Iraqi towns and villages as “rooting out insurgents” and swallows British army propaganda designed to distract from its disaster, while preparing us for attacks on Iran and Syria. Like the New York Times and most of the American media, had the BBC done its job, many thousands of innocent people almost certainly would be alive today.
    When will important journalists cease to be establishment managers and analyse and confront the critical part they play in the violence of rapacious governments? An anniversary provides an opportunity. Forty years ago this month, Major General Suharto began a seizure of power in Indonesia by unleashing a wave of killings that the CIA described as “the worst mass murders of the second half of the 20th century”. Much of this episode was never reported and remains secret. None of the reports of recent terror attacks against tourists in Bali mentioned the fact that near the major hotels were the mass graves of some of an estimated 80,000 people killed by mobs orchestrated by Suharto and backed by the American and British governments.
    Indeed, the collaboration of western governments, together with the role of western business, laid the pattern for subsequent Anglo-American violence across the world: such as Chile in 1973, when Augusto Pinochet’s bloody coup was backed in Washington and London; the arming of the shah of Iran and the creation of his secret police; and the lavish and meticulous backing of Saddam Hussein in Iraq, including black propaganda by the Foreign Office which sought to discredit press reports that he had used nerve gas against the Kurdish village of Halabja.
    In 1965, in Indonesia, the American embassy furnished General Suharto with roughly 5,000 names. These were people for assassination, and a senior American diplomat checked off the names as they were killed or captured. Most were members of the PKI, the Indonesian Communist Party. Having already armed and equipped Suharto’s army, Washington secretly flew in state-of-the-art communication equipment whose high frequencies were known to the CIA and the National Security Council advising the president, Lyndon B Johnson. Not only did this allow Suharto’s generals to co-ordinate the massacres, it meant that the highest echelons of the US administration were listening in.
    The Americans worked closely with the British. The British ambassador in Jakarta, Sir Andrew Gilchrist, cabled the Foreign Office: “I have never concealed from you my belief that a little shooting in Indonesia would be an essential preliminary to effective change.” The “little shooting” saw off between half a million and a million people.However, it was in the field of propaganda, of “managing” the media and eradicating the victims from people’s memory in the west, that the British shone. British intelligence officers outlined how the British press and the BBC could be manipulated. “Treatment will need to be subtle,” they wrote, “eg, a) all activities should be strictly unattributable, b) British [government] participation or co-operation should be carefully concealed.” To achieve this, the Foreign Office opened a branch of its Information Research Department (IRD) in Singapore.
    The IRD was a top-secret, cold war propaganda unit headed by Norman Reddaway, one of Her Majesty’s most experienced liars. Reddaway and his colleagues manipulated the “embedded” press and the BBC so expertly that he boasted to Gilchrist in a secret message that the fake story he had promoted – that a communist takeover was imminent in Indonesia – “went all over the world and back again”. He described how an experienced Sunday newspaper journalist agreed “to give exactly your angle on events in his article . . . ie, that this was a kid-glove coup without butchery”.
    These lies, bragged Reddaway, could be “put almost instantly back to Indonesia via the BBC”. Prevented from entering Indonesia, Roland Challis, the BBC’s south-east Asia corres-pondent, was unaware of the slaughter. “My British sources purported not to know what was going on,” Challis told me, “but they knew what the American plan was. There were bodies being washed up on the lawns of the British consulate in Surabaya, and British warships escorted a ship full of Indonesian troops down the Malacca Straits so that they could take part in this terrible holocaust. It was only later that we learned that the American embassy was supplying names and ticking them off as they were killed. There was a deal, you see. In establishing the Suharto regime, the involvement of the IMF and the World Bank was part of it . . . Suharto would bring them back. That was the deal.”
    The bloodbath was ignored almost entirely by the BBC and the rest of the western media. The headline news was that “communism” had been overthrown in Indonesia, which, Time reported, “is the west’s best news in Asia”. In November 1967, at a conference in Geneva overseen by the billionaire banker David Rockefeller, the booty was handed out. All the corporate giants were represented, from General Motors, Chase Manhattan Bank and US Steel to ICI and British American Tobacco. With Suharto’s connivance, the natural riches of his country were carved up.Suharto’s cut was considerable. When he was finally overthrown in 1998, it was estimated that he had up to $10bn in foreign banks, or more than 10 per cent of Indonesia’s foreign debt. When I was last in Jakarta, I walked to the end of his leafy street and caught sight of the mansion where the mass murderer now lives in luxury. As Saddam Hussein heads for his own show trial on 19 October, he must ask himself where he went wrong. Compared with Suharto’s crimes, Saddm seem second-division.
    With British-supplied Hawk jets and machine-guns, Suharto’s army went on to crush the life out of a quarter of the population of East Timor: 200,000 people. Using the same Hawk jets and machine-guns, the same genocidal army is now attempting to crush the life out of the resistance movement in West Papua and protect the Freeport company, which is mining a mountain of copper in the province. (Henry Kissinger is “director emeritus”.) Some 100,000 Papuans, 18 per cent of the population, have been killed; yet this British-backed “project”, as new Labour likes to say, is almost never reported.
    What happened in Indonesia, and continues to happen, is almost a mirror image of the attack on Iraq. Both countries have riches coveted by the west; both had dictators installed by the west to facilitate the passage of their resources; and in both countries, blood-drenched Anglo-American actions have been disguised by propaganda willingly provided by journalists prepared to draw the necessary distinctions between Saddam’s regime (“monstrous”) and Suharto’s (“moderate” and “stable”). Since the invasion of Iraq, I have spoken to a number of principled journalists working in the pro-war media, including the BBC, who say that they and many others “lie awake at night” and want to speak out and resume being real journalists. I suggest now is the time.

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 14 2005 3:10 utc | 75

grrr, maybe it’s just me, but damn Malooga, whats w/ all the crypto innuendoes? e.g.,”IHT, often a trial balloon for the liberal elite[…]” say what you mean sir…
see my last request too, please.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Oct 14 2005 3:16 utc | 76

I don’t see any real groundwork laid yet for Iran. We don’t even have one good UNSC finding in hand. For Iraq we had – what? – thirty of them? Not to mention a nice authorization for the use of the armed forces from Congress. These things take time. It’ll be the next administration’s call, I do believe. There’s an awful lot of selling, demonizing, and fear-mongering to do, considering the operation’s likely and immediate cost to be borne by everyone. Americans do actually need to be able to afford to fill up their tanks to go to work and the strategic reserve (which the admin is quickly doubling at sky-high prices) only buys a breather.
Then again, when you don’t have to run for reelection, you don’t have to fret so much about the high opinion and warm feeling of John Q. Public. Go ahead and serve up a big shit sandwich. What are they gonna do? Impeach you?
The Army’s tired and all tied up. The Air Force isn’t.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 14 2005 3:22 utc | 77

Pat, you optimist. There’s no way they can talk people into it las they did for Iraq. They’ll have to terrorize the masses into it. Either they’ll give Israel go ahead to initiate attacks, creating such a mess to force xUs hand. Or they/Mossad will release toxins of whatever description in am. city/subway system, kill piles, panic everyone ignorant enough to be susceptible to such nonsense & blame it on Iranians. Attack w/in days. They have wet dreams of pulling another Kermit Roosevelt, but that just shows they do have a sense of humor after all!
I would imagine there’s enormous debate between elites about it. Can’t afford it; but what happens if Iranian bourse opens as planned in spring – what would be consequences of that for the dollar?

Posted by: jj | Oct 14 2005 3:52 utc | 78

Israel’s not gonna do it, jj. The defense establishment decided that even the best outcome, which is not the most likely, would simply set Iran back a few years. They’re rather in a pickle considering their own doctrine (which is not, just to be clear, our doctrine) that states that no other ME nation shall be allowed nuclear weapons.
If you can’t really put a definitive stop to the nuclear development, you can put that development into the hands of a regime you like more. And that’s what I think will be shopped around and finally sold. Like I said, these things take time. And time is what neoconservatives and neoliberals have. Time and patience. Even “Faster, please” Ledeen.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 14 2005 4:22 utc | 79

Pat, I hope you’re right. Hard to believe that someone w/a shred of common sense is anywhere near power anymore. Certainly not much in evidence in DC.

Posted by: jj | Oct 14 2005 4:53 utc | 80

Time and patience and a wide open road.

Posted by: Pat | Oct 14 2005 4:54 utc | 81

Will the “Saturday Night Massacre” become the Sat. Night Car Crash, or Sat. Night Suicide?
This from Wayne Madsen today:
Political insiders tracking this scandal are reporting that the GOP and neo-con political machines, which have also targeted Travis County, Texas District Attorney Ronnie Earle in retaliation for his indictments of Tom DeLay and other Texas GOP operatives, are also setting their sights on CIA Leakgate special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald.
The word inside the Beltway is that if Fitzgerald delivers indictments against senior White House officials he will face unspecified “consequences.”
“It’s a sign of desperation on the part of the White House and Karl Rove’s machine,” said one individual familiar with the case. Another informed observer pointed out that Fitzgerald “is the last guy the White House would want to threaten with retaliation.”

Anyone else recall Cheney informing Sen. Wellstone that there would be “serious consequences” if he voted against Iraq War Resolution? Shortly thereafter, his ratings soared, followed by his plane crashing. “Consequences” is a Menacing word used by utterly corrupt fascists. That said I hope Fitzy & Earle have security armed w/video cameras.

Posted by: jj | Oct 14 2005 5:04 utc | 82

For Iran, I think the scenario is domestic terror attack (possibly reusing the 7 Al-Quaida operatives from 9-11 who have since turned up alive–Ha!), followed by swift “retribution”, while at the same time feeling that they have a reasonable chance at “pulling a Kermit”, that is, an inside coup. LOL, given the quality of intelligence we had in invading Iraq! This is very risky. Still, the elite must be terrified about the Iranian bourse. No good options here for them–this is Bush’s and Cheney’s screwup. By next year we may be looking at Exxon and Halliburton (which, to dredge the Memory Hole, was on the verge of bankrupcy at the onset of the invasion) doubling in size, while the Big Three Auto Mfrs. and numerous airlines go broke. Perhaps a bit more economic restructuring than the Chamber of Commerce had in mind.
Or maybe invade Syria, so that the region is in such an uproar that Iran can’t get its Bourse off the ground. Nevertheless, it should be stated that, with Iran, what we are essentially talking about is Europe’s oil supply. Europe is the largest regional net importer of oil at 15MBPD, surpassing US and China, and they are doing everything under the sun, literally, to mitigate this.
So, yes Uncle$, I am saying that, in all probability “Bush has screwed Ledeen’s pooch”, but I’m not sure if they completely accept this yet. But the window is closing fast.
I believe that the basic methodology as described in John Perkins book “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” governs America’s actions, namely: To enact the neoliberal agenda of the corporate elite that are Bush’s true constituency, start with “diplomacy”–trade agreements,UN resolutions etc.; when that fails send in the Economic Hitmen–the IMF and World Bank grabs their balls by forcing loans for infrastructure needed by the multinationals which they will not be able to repay; when that fails send in the CIA, Seals and Rangers to “pull a Kermit”; when that fails send in the Marines and Smedly Butler; when that fails send in the diplomats… The mistake people make is in believing that they stop when they screw up. Wrong. They never stop, ever, when one strategy fails, it paves the way for the next, like the endless song “Show me the way to go home…” War paves the way for diplomacy, each screw-up just makes the next step easier, more inevitable. And every area of the globe is considered, no place, no resource is forgotten by the elite planners.
Take the case of a war we “lost”, (and here I owe a great deal to Chomsky in my thinking) Vietnam. After thirty years of French and American destruction, which Arthur Westling compared to the “less efficient” destuction of Carthage during the Punic Wars, Vietnam was left a “vast and empty landscape, which will take several generations to recover, if possible at all.” Despite the fact that the US did not achieve its maximal goals in Indochina, those countries “will not endanger global order by social and economic success in a framework that denies the West the freedom to exploit, infecting regions beyond.” And where are we now, thirty years later? We are welcomed back (“I was treated better there than I was by my own country.”); the hitmen are back setting up sweatshops as fast as possible where desparate labor, forced off the land, is so cheap they can undercut even the Chinese in this neo-liberal race to the bottom, placing them again within our economic sphere of influence. Furthermore, Vietnam and China may not shy away from a confrontation in order to safeguard access to much-needed natural resources, and both will attempt to maintain their own spheres of influence for that purpose. Vietnam already acts as a regional powerbroker when it comes to the domestic and foreign affairs of Cambodia and Laos, which are states with much less geopolitical clout. It is not at all unlikely that Vietnam will attempt to rebuff growing Chinese ambitions across East Asia in order to ensure that its own population can survive the coming economic and social pressures. So, in many ways America’s goals have been achieved over time.
The same relentless pressure will be brought to bear upon Iraq. If we are forced by domestic and international pressure to withdraw our forces, then puppets will be installed. If the puppets are overthrown, then the spooks go in. If that doesn’t work, well we may have to bomb again in a few years. I’m not trying to depress everyone here, but we should be cognizant that not even the ghost of Paul Wellstone is calling for an end to American imperialism, is calling for an end to American influence over the area, or is stating that those countries should be able to determine their own fates.
Anyway, this rant is getting off the topic of the tread, so I had better end here.
P.S. I cry Uncle$–sorry to appear cryptic with my last post–I was just trying to type quickly. What I mean’t to say more clearly is that the IHT is owned by the NYTimes, so sometimes they will send up trial balloons there to see how Europe reacts, before launching the concept on the domestic audience.

Posted by: Malooga | Oct 14 2005 7:05 utc | 83

The USA has been successful in defeating rebellions conducted by minorities; the Chinese in Indonesia or the Mayans in Central America. The USA was less successful in invading and conquering another culture in Vietnam and eventually was thrown out of the Philippines. But, American troops are still stationed in South Korea, Germany and Japan.
Saddam Hussein was a thorn in the side of USA. A major factor in Bush I’s defeat by Bill Clinton was that the American citizens saw through the claim that Gulf War I was a great victory. What victory? Saddam Hussein was still in power. Thus, the son’s obsession with Hussein’s overthrow.
Below the obsessed leader is a toxic stew of born again true believers, small businessmen on the make, and Troskyites who profess sole possession of special knowledge to guide the American empire. A combination of sociopaths and cult members they became consumed with invading Iraq and taking control of the Middle East. Kool-Aid was stove-piped throughout the chain of command. Realists and concerned federal employees were sidelined or silenced. In their confusion the Bush Administration mixed up the Iraq Invasion with World War II and Honduras.
So the USA invaded Iraq with the forces necessary to subdue Honduras with the goals of remaking all of the Middle East into a Christian democracy; A Grand Debacle.

Posted by: Jim S | Oct 14 2005 16:22 utc | 84