Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
October 25, 2005
One Step Left To Take

So now at least 2000 US soldiers were killed in the war on Iraq. A negligible number in any major armed conflict. Probably 100,000 Iraqis died because of this war. That is a less negligible number. Today GW Bush will hold another "major speech", lauding this war and preparing the next one on Syria – let’s wag the dog.

Meanwhile I find an interesting thought in what Bush 41 is up to. He knows his son screwed up big time in Iraq. He may well assume or know that his son had a say in outing Plame. What to do to save the family honor?

There comes the mouth of Bush 41, Brent Scowcroft, saying in a New Yorker interview "The real anomaly in the Administration is Cheney". Next comes the mouth of Powell,  Lawrence B. Wilkerson, writing about "The White House cabal", "led by Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld" and explaining how Collin Powell "cleaned all the dog poop off the carpet" the cabal dropped in the Oval Office. Why are these guys talking now?

Next we get the NYT piece Cheney Told Aide of C.I.A. Officer, Lawyers Report hanging the Plame case noose around Cheney’s neck. Who leaked this and what is the interest behind the leak? Like usual the NYT does not answer the important questions.

All this piling up on Cheney does miss the responsibility of his boss. Bush 43 had trust in his people and they did trust him. There was not a word about conflict in the White House in 2002/2003. Are we really to believe that he did not know about the Niger documents? Was he calm and undisturbed when his "16 words" had to be retracted? It was his first loss after a long string of success, but it did not bother him a bit? He did not ask any questions about this screw up?

The Bush family reputation is on the line. There is the real possibility, that the Plame affair could get 43 into even deeper dog poop. Bush’s father sends his personal cavalry and suddenly the buck stops at Cheney’s desk? 

Let us hope that Fitzgerald sees through this and takes enough time to build the case for the next step. He already climbed the ladder from Hannah to Libby to Cheney – one step left to take.

Comments

fallin’ like dominoes. maybe poppy is worried that son will flip too, or just flip out. seems to be damage control, otherwise who knows what skeletons & dirty laundry will spill out of the closets.

Posted by: b real | Oct 25 2005 16:08 utc | 1

Nice job b,
it is truly amazing that a guy in Hamburg can see this crap and all the high paid reporters and editors at the NY Times can not.

Posted by: dan of steele | Oct 25 2005 16:14 utc | 2

fallin’ like dominoes. maybe poppy is worried that the apple will flip too, or just flip out. seems to be damage control, otherwise who knows what skeletons & dirty laundry will spill out of the closets. junior was used to maintain control over the crazies & now it’s collection time.

Posted by: b real | Oct 25 2005 16:19 utc | 3

weird things going on… sorry ’bout the multiple posts. getting an error message redirect after posting.

Posted by: b real | Oct 25 2005 16:35 utc | 4

is there an echo in here?

Posted by: beq | Oct 25 2005 17:07 utc | 5

here?

Posted by: beq | Oct 25 2005 17:08 utc | 6

Only 2,000? Quit your bellyachin’ – you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!
Words of comfort from the commander-in-chief:
Bush warns on higher Iraq casualties

Posted by: clip | Oct 25 2005 17:28 utc | 7

(deleted some double posted comments – typepad screwed up again)

Posted by: b | Oct 25 2005 18:31 utc | 8

How the yellowcake story was launched from Berlusconi’s Italy into the DC realm: La Repubblica’s Scoop, Confirmed
“Italy’s intelligence chief met with Deputy National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley just a month before the Niger forgeries first surfaced.”

Posted by: b | Oct 25 2005 19:04 utc | 9

Billmon properly mentions the Iraqi dead.
But what about all those soldiers who are maimed, handicapped (their lives are saved at great cost and more efficiently than in Vietnam); the Iraqis, maimed but not saved in case of serious injury; and finally, all those poisoned for life by pollutants, heavy metals, radiocativity, not to mention a few exotic diseases and depression, poverty, loss of hope, a normal life, and the possbility of having normal children …gone.
Smashed waterworks equals death at five, Halliburton or whoever does not give out 5 dollar bottles of water to Iraqis, except for photo ops, and those are so yesterday.
Billmon wrote:
Why are these guys talking now?
Because it is done. Iraq is smashed. (And coincidentally! opinion has turned, the oil industry ain’t doing it, Katrina was kinda ugly, the army is limping, etc.) Now it is time to move forward – that is, recoup; pause; think; implement change — and BushCo aren’t really capable.
The Amercians did not ‘win’ in Vietnam; but Vietnam today is a poor place with sweat shops and no international influence.
I think the ‘protect Bush’ scenario outlined by B has a lot going for it. However the ‘get Cheney’ meme also reflects the fact that Bush is both a puppet and a figurehead.

Posted by: Noisette | Oct 25 2005 19:11 utc | 10

Bush family honor? No such thing. But surely Poppy and his men really hated how Cheney used Shrub’s need to surpass Daddy to enlist Jr. in Cheney’s bizarre plans for Halliburton. Poppy and his guys always knew going into Iraq was a big mistake.

Posted by: Sagacity | Oct 25 2005 19:11 utc | 11

I can only hope that Fitzgerald does prolonge the Grand Jury session. There is so much coming with the pressure of possible indictments that it would be a waste to lift this pressure now.
Please Fitzie, December 24 would be a fine date for Fitzmas. Just keep following the leaks for now.

Posted by: b | Oct 25 2005 19:15 utc | 12

Sagacity, may I respectfully disagree, from my mountain in Switzerland. The rains are coming down, autumn leaves are falling. I’m listening to the radio –
Honor is tied to power. And without going into the details, for that simple reason the Bush family honor (defending it now reduced to stopping the public acceptance of horrors) is an important matter. I understand though (?) that perhaps you meant they ‘have no honor’ in the old fashioned sense of a noble attitude accompanied by ‘proper’ behavior, projected from a position that is socially sanctioned, accepted, according to instituted codes, which is certainly true.
Second, Poppy and his guys may have disaproved; I judge they did; there are many traces of that. But they did nothing, and they could have acted, no? They let the whole story move forward, adopting a wait and see attitude. Sitting on the fence. They probably reckoned, if it turns bad, so be it, we can implement repair. That is an ultimate power trip, letting others run off cock-eyed, and steppin’ in after.

Posted by: Noisette | Oct 25 2005 19:35 utc | 13

In theory I agree w/prolonging, B-, but by that gives them more time to Attack Syria.
Anyone else Enraged w/all this yak about Foreign Policy & Iraq, no one is going after him for Bankrupting America. Get all The Damn Pirates Out Now.

Posted by: jj | Oct 25 2005 19:36 utc | 14

@Noisette – “Billmon wrote: Why are these guys talking now? ”
“Bernhard” or “b” is NOT Billmon. Billmon is an ex-journalist somewhere in the US. Bernhard is an IT-manager in Hamburg, Germany. Thats all we know about each other. I keep this site for comments on Billmon’s pieces which are very superior to what I will ever be able to write. Plus most of the comments written here are much above my level too.
(To smooth my ego: I am sure to have advantages in other fields. But this not a competition. It’s a common concern about a very dangerous development of the US of A.)

Posted by: b | Oct 25 2005 20:03 utc | 15

don’t seel yourself short b. you are super
i think the reason these leaks are coming out now is to soften the blow. fitz probably knows this stuff already. especially the hadly/sismi connection since we know he ask the italians what they knew a while ago. my sense is that people are speaking out because the msm is finally playing catch up. i seriously doubt fitz doesn’t have the goods. let the indictments begin, i agree w/the race for exposure before they pace up the syria plans

Posted by: annie | Oct 25 2005 20:44 utc | 16

jeez, that was supposed to say ‘sell yourself short’

Posted by: annie | Oct 25 2005 20:45 utc | 17


bring it on

Posted by: r’giap | Oct 25 2005 20:57 utc | 18

I just stopped by to post that R’Giap.
No more than 5 Indictments…Press Conference Thurs. …2 more nights of pins & needles…

Posted by: jj | Oct 25 2005 21:46 utc | 19

I still think the Fitzgerald vs Cheney show is being produced by HW in order to get Dick out of the picture in 08 for the benefit of Jeb.

Posted by: gylangirl | Oct 25 2005 22:39 utc | 20

bring it on

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 25 2005 22:46 utc | 21

How many more sleeps is that?..
I reckon the biggest problem with getting anything on Chimpee is contained in b’s

“Are we really to believe that he did not know about the Niger documents? Was he calm and undisturbed when his “16 words” had to be retracted? It was his first loss after a long string of success, but it did not bother him a bit? He did not ask any questions about this screw up?”

Chimpee may know believe guess or whatever but as a leader he DOES…..nothing!
If there are five good indictments (simple arithmetic says Wurmser and Hannah, Rove and Libby, and lastly Richard(Leopold 2)Cheney) then the sad little drunk is dead meat anyhow. He will have to resign.
The US probably doesn’t have the stomach for jailing a president and I honestly feel that is a task best left to some international tribunal.
We all live in hope.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 25 2005 22:49 utc | 22

If Rove goes, what comes apres Rove?

The Bush persona is mainly the invention of its author Rove; a careful stitching together of religious and western imagery, of pious moralizing and cowboy “straight-talk”.

Rove is the stardust that animates the vacuous executive; the transformer that pumps a steady stream of electricity into the severed presidential-cortex….Without the wily-professor Rove behind the curtain, the Bush façade would quickly dissipate and vaporize into thin air.
The system simply doesn’t work without Rove.

The greatest tribute to Rove is the fact that 38% of the American people still believe that Bush is running the country.

But, now, the system is teetering from the threat of indictments. If Rove goes down, the cracks and fissures in the White House parapets will appear fairly quickly. Bush depends on his podgy confidante more than people realize. He’s the anchor that keeps the petulant president from drifting off into a post-alcoholic miasma. Without Rove, the country faces the prospect of an embattled executive left to his own devices, his jittery hands inching ever-closer to the Big Red Switch.
Not a pretty picture.
The Bush administration really isn’t built on its high-minded ideology as many seem to believe. That stuff is pure mumbo jumbo. The regime rests entirely on the strengths and talents of a few key people, without whom the whole mechanism would grind to an abrupt standstill. Rove, Rumsfeld and Cheney are the indispensable cogs in the imperial jalopy. If any one of them is carted off to prison, the entire operation will unravel like a ball of yarn.

This should have been obvious after the staged “visit” with Our Troops a couple weeks ago. Rove couldn’t have been responsible for that debacle.
My own guess is that Bush will be allowed to stay on even if Rove – and later Cheney – go down. I see what is happening now as a power struggle between the neocons and the old guard Republican realists aided by the CIA. The timing of Wilkerson’s and Skowcroft’s articles and the series in La Repubblica on
the origin of the yellowcake forgeries to coincide with the indictments cannot be a coincidence. I think Fitz is their instrument to take control of this administration away from the neocons – now referred to in some quarters as liberals with guns to help the faithful distinguish them from real conservatives.
Bush himself still has a fervent, pathological following in The Party and will stay on for that reason – too dangerous to take away their Object of Worship. However, the Old Guard will surround him with their own and remove all sharp objects from his reach – if they can win this fight. I hope they do win since it is the best chance to end the messianic, militarized March of Democracy now being inflicted on the ME, but we will still be in bad shape both domestically and in our relations with the rest of the world.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Oct 25 2005 23:47 utc | 23

bring it on

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 26 2005 0:11 utc | 24

Whoa, r’giap. We’ll have to call you “scoop” now, comrade.

Posted by: beq | Oct 26 2005 0:32 utc | 25

ma bewitching beq
don’t know how i’m functioning – i work & keep these hours all night like some kind of mission
& i am of the opinion as the bush cheney junta would say – that this courription is both systemic & systematic – & has as its roots – the innately corrupting nature of capital
& i had given up gope that there was any jurisprudential activity left of merit
but…but…my desire to at least see these most obvious & vulgar criminals – face some sort of justice – is too strong – they are evil in a way that i find physically repellling & not since the chicken farmer heinrich himmler – has someone physically represented evil as well as karl rove – perhaps he will end up the same way – running away to some farmhouse – under the name of some dead national guardsman & finally caught – takes a lethal dose of tylenol

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 26 2005 0:47 utc | 26

Frankly, if my son did this to a country, I wouldn’t ponce around with editorials by some sidekick (Scowcroft). I’d take him out for a walk, and tell him what a complete and utter wanker he was………. and then tell him to cut brush for a long time……… or else.

Posted by: Bolllox Ref | Oct 26 2005 3:13 utc | 27

Is anybody else having trouble getting on when you just enter the standard M..o…A….org? I had to pull this url from my history file to get back here. Wonder if the comment will post?
Bar Closed…Hurricane…Avian Flu…???

Posted by: jj | Oct 26 2005 3:22 utc | 28

Not much underscores the double dealing that is Western involvement in the Middle East than the West’s attitude to Al Jazeera.
As far as I can see Al-Jazeera are only guilty of telling the truth in an environment where both the domestic and foreign news service up until then had been lying to their audience.
For that sin Al Jazeera journalists have been shot see todays Counterpunch story on Palestine hotel and imprisoned .
The western agenda defies logic they tell us that their chief interest is to encourage democracy in the Middle East, yet the only media source that consistently tells all sides of the Middle East’s internecine disputes is continually harassed for doing so.
Once the English language version of Al Jazeera is available, the BBC wil be looking to its laurels. I swear BBC World is becoming more of an instrument of the Bliar government as each day passes. Last night it was damn near unwatchable as it sought to beat up the Syria/Harriri story.
But we shouldn’t be surprised since the British Foreign Office funds BBC World to the tune of approx 270 million pounds a year.
If Al-Jazeera can inform it’s audience of what is actually happening rather than what management thinks the audience needs to hear, it will rip through the others station’s audience share like the proverbial.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Oct 26 2005 3:43 utc | 29

@b I can’t find sufficiently laudatory superlatives
to describe your efforts here.
@ Lonesome George

My own guess is that Bush will be allowed to stay on even if Rove – and later Cheney – go down. I see what is happening now as a power struggle between the neocons and the old guard Republican realists aided by the CIA. The timing of Wilkerson’s and Skowcroft’s articles and the series in La Repubblica on the origin of the yellowcake forgeries to coincide with the indictments cannot be a coincidence. I think Fitz is their instrument to take control of this administration away from the neocons – now referred to in some quarters as liberals with guns to help the faithful distinguish them from real conservatives.

Unfortunately, I think this is right on the money. Indeed, it fits perfectly with what was observed here a year ago, namely that important elites would bring Bush to heel. I would prefer a more populist process for bringing him to justice, but the mass media in the U.S. have not yet turned on W, and absent their power to sensationalize and banalize the case, high treason in the White House will probably go largely unnoticed and unpunished. As usual, there will be no dearth of excellent cadavers served up for public opprobrium, but the corrupt heart of the conspiracy will continue to pump its oily blood.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Oct 26 2005 5:19 utc | 30

i am in some sort of shock. my system started slowing down a few days ago. the last time i had this feeling of hope was the election and i was so positive and hopeful the disappointment was devastating. i can’t help but be afraid it won’t be enough.i must admit i am sharing r’giap’s sentiments. if cheney comes out of this unscathed i may grind my teeth thru my sleep for nights to come. and we wouldn’t want that.
perhaps we will have to wait till thursday. ahh the anticipation. breath slow and deep. for all the dead and tortured may there be some redemption. for the soul of america, if she still has one, i pray. for the soul of the middle east i pray.

Posted by: annie | Oct 26 2005 6:37 utc | 31

drip , drip drip
According to Roll Call, Fitzgerald was spotted Tuesday at the law offices of Patton Boggs, the firm that employs Rove’s lawyer Robert Luskin
ya think maybe he just dropped by for a cuppa tea?

Posted by: annie | Oct 26 2005 6:51 utc | 32

ok, i am trying this again, so bare w/me if it shows up twice. and yes, i had trouble earlier w/this site also.
drip drip drip
Fitzgerald was spotted Tuesday at the law offices of Patton Boggs, the firm that employs Rove’s lawyer Robert Luskin.
something tells me he wasn’t dropping by for a cuppa tea.

Posted by: annie | Oct 26 2005 6:56 utc | 33

b-
just yesterday (or is it now two days ago…what time is it, anyway?) when I was reading those same articles (Wilkerson, the new “leak” about Cheney, and, yes, Scowcroft…I said…okay, this is the strategy.
Jr. was “out of the loop” — it’s better to portray him as someone who was kept in the dark…because he’s so..what..dumb? religious? so focused like a laser beam on terrorism, so loyal…take your pick, according to how you see him…And it is true that Cheney spent an unprecedented amt of time at the CIA stovepiping intel.
So let Cheney (and Rumsfeld, b/c the torture issue is not over yet)…take the hit thru what they now call the Whigs (but what was earlier called the OSP? ) –or are the Whigs the “public face” of the OSP? That’s the one Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatkowski outed in the American Conservative and subsequently in Salon.
and, btw, fwiw, fyi, blah blah…Sharon put together a similar group to bypass Mossad at the same time. how coincidental.
The OSP was an open and largely unfiltered conduit to the White House not only for the Iraqi opposition. It also forged close ties to a parallel, ad hoc intelligence operation inside Ariel Sharon’s office in Israel specifically to bypass Mossad and provide the Bush administration with more alarmist reports on Saddam’s Iraq than Mossad was prepared to authorise.
Here’s a preface to the La Republicca articles referenced in the post above, which are ESSENTIAL reading right now, imo.
Here’s a translation of the first day’s article from Nur-al-Cubicle. Here’s the second article translated by the same.
here’s an interesting bit-
Thielmann recounts the events of autumn 2001 in generalities. But the precise date may prove revealing: it is October 15, 2001. On that day three events are woven together to produce an astounding coincidence: Nicolò Pollari is appointed to head SISMI by the Italian government on September 27, after serving as Number Two at CESIS (a coordinating intelligence agency at Palazzo Chigi). Silvio Berlusconi is finally invited to the White House by George W. Bush. October 15 marks the date of the first CIA report on the evidence assembled by the Italians.
And from the earlier WMo. article:
The first meeting occurred in Rome in December, 2001. It included Franklin, Rhode, and another American, the neoconservative writer and operative Michael Ledeen, who organized the meeting. (According to UPI, Ledeen was then working for Feith as a consultant.) Also in attendance was Ghorbanifar and a number of other Iranians. One of the Iranians, according to two sources familiar with the meeting, was a former senior member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard who claimed to have information about dissident ranks within the Iranian security services. The Washington Monthly has also learned from U.S. government sources that Nicolo Pollari, the head of Italy’s military intelligence agency, SISMI, attended the meetings, as did the Italian Minister of Defense Antonio Martino, who is well-known in neoconservative circles in Washington.
Alarm bells about the December 2001 meeting began going off in U.S. government channels only days after it occurred. On Dec. 12, 2001, at the U.S. embassy in Rome, America’s newly-installed ambassador, Mel Sembler, sat down for a private dinner with Ledeen, an old friend of his from Republican Party politics, and Martino, the Italian defense minister. The conversation quickly turned to the meeting. The problem was that this was the first that Amb. Sembler had heard about it.

BooMan makes a further connection on the front page of the Tribune (The Conspiracy the MSM Won’t Touch). He notes the Sept. 12, 2002 article in Berlusconi’s rag about the yellow cake…published 3 days after Pollari’s meeting with Hadley.
booman sez- September 12, 2002, perhaps not so coincidently, was also the day Bush gave his speech at the United Nations, where he famously said:
“With every step the Iraqi regime takes toward gaining and deploying the most terrible weapons, our own options to confront that regime will narrow. And if an emboldened regime were to supply these weapons to terrorist allies, then the attacks of September the 11th would be a prelude to far greater horrors.”

From Laura Rozen’s report on the new articles-
In an explosive series of articles appearing this week in the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, investigative reporters Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe d’Avanzo report that Nicolo Pollari, chief of Italy’s military intelligence service, known as Sismi, brought the Niger yellowcake story directly to the White House after his insistent overtures had been rejected by the Central Intelligence Agency in 2001 and 2002. Sismi had reported to the CIA on October 15, 2001, that Iraq had sought yellowcake in Niger, a report it also plied on British intelligence, creating an echo that the Niger forgeries themselves purported to amplify before they were exposed as a hoax.
…so, they tried in 2001 and 2002. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz began, days after 9-11, to try to blame that event on Iraq…and apparently Ledeen and Ghorbanifar and Pollari were only trying to help…
(and Annie…this goes back to the issue of the two break-ins at the Niger Embassy around Christmas?)
BooMan also notes that even back then, the Scowcroft Republicans (real politickers?) went against the Bush administration’s push to invade Iraq, later in his post.
And there’s the bit back in March about the head of MI6 stating on a BBC doc that-
Sir Richard briefed Mr Blair that the quality of intelligence sourcing for some claims made in the run-up to the publication of the intelligence dossier was developmental, adding: “The source remains unproven.” Nevertheless, Mr Blair told MPs two weeks later: “The intelligence picture they paint is one accumulated over the past four years. It is extensive, detailed and authoritative.”
..and also based on lies…oh, Blair forgot to include that part.
Makes me wanna watch The Grifters…what a perfect set up and the marks were the American people.

Posted by: fauxreal | Oct 26 2005 7:39 utc | 34

fauxreal, as I understand it the Office Of Special Plans (OSP) was in the Pentagon. Guardian: “Wurmser, backed by Feith and Rhode, set out to prove what didn’t exist.” Wolfowitz was Deputy Defence Secretary. They had access to raw intelligence and selected items that were inflammatory.
The White House Iraq Group (WHIG) was the executive branch taking care of the politics using the selected intelligence. Members per Wikipedia: Karl Rove (chair), Karen Hughes Mary Matalin, Andrew Card James R. Wilkinson, Nicholas E. Calio, Condoleezza Rice, Stephen Hadley, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby.
The missing link is who is responsible for feeding the press, including Judith Miller.
Probably the WHIGs I guess.
NY Daily News: “Besides Rove and Libby, the group included senior White House aides Karen Hughes, Mary Matalin, James Wilkinson, Nicholas Calio, Condoleezza Rice and Stephen Hadley … ‘They were funneling information to [New York Times reporter] Judy Miller. Judy was a charter member,” the source said.'”
To add another detail to your summary above, how does Nicolo Pollari, chief of Italy’s military intelligence service, relate to the Nicola Calipari who was killed in Iraq’s Green Mile or whatever they call the airport road, while overseeing the release of a woman journalist?
He is eulogized as “Mr Calipari worked out of Mr Berlusconi’s office and was a highly experienced hostage negotiator who had secured the release of two Italian aid workers taken captive in Iraq last year.”
I remembered coverage stating that he was the head of Italy’s intelligence service, but either I am mistaken or the stories I read got it wrong.

Posted by: jonku | Oct 26 2005 8:22 utc | 35

@ HKO — “I would prefer a more populist process for bringing him to justice, ”
Such as ??? By what means ???

Posted by: eftsoons | Oct 26 2005 8:25 utc | 36

fantastic post fauxreal. i read the first Nur-al-Cubicle translations a few times earlier today and will follow w/the next tomorrow, must get some sleep, but thank you, for spelling it all out so well. you are a jewell

Posted by: annie | Oct 26 2005 8:26 utc | 37

Frankly, if my son did this to a country …

… there wouldn’t be enough SS agents and military grunts to stop me from making a kite out of his hide and flying it up one side of Pennsylvania avenue and down the other. Personally, I think that’s exactly what Poppy would love to do but simply can’t because The Ol’ Battleaxe made sure that her dear Georgie remained very “underprivleged” when it came to visits to the ol’ woodshed.
“What?!? *gasp* GEORGE! My beautiful mind will not fathom a belt ever striking Junior’s beautiful ass unless you really want me to drop divorce papers faster that you can book a flight to Kennebunkport, hmmmm?!?”

Posted by: Sizemore | Oct 26 2005 8:44 utc | 38

I’m sure that Patrick Fitzgerald is being used by certain elite factions to delete these people who have become a liability. Didn’t Father Bush fire Rove once? The infighting always does it in the end.
People always say that Rove is so brilliant and I never could see it. He overshoots the mark in his excessive use of personal attack. I think the biggest mistake he made in the last election was attacking John Kerry’s military service. It struck a nerve that they didn’t realize. The purple band aids were obscene beyond measure. Then came the flip flops. I was torn between weeping and vomiting at witnessing this human depravity during the Republican Convention. I realize we are stuck with the lowest common demoninator culturally, but I think Rove misgauges it. It’s too humiliating. Too tacky, even for this society. And the lies and coverups are so thin and obvious.
I think Rove in particular is a problem because he has more control by nature than many of the others. Cheney, I think, is very sick and not acting rationally. They spent years and years building the base and preparing for this moment, but now it seems that all their efforts have come to naught as far as permanent one party control goes. A stupid idea to begin with. I think you can have more power by letting others believe they have some. So I think there is despair in the cabal and a shattering of illusions. There are too many players and too much conflict. And the more the rifts widen, the weaker they will become. Their divide and conquer strategy has turned in on them. Dictatorial control requires great organization and administration, which I always though they lacked. In fact chaos seems to be their area of expertise, and the puppeteers probably figure they need better. But money is invested and personal contracts have to be dealt with. Time will tell who will emerge in positions of power.
The web is vast and complicated and I think it’s likely that they are trying to keep Bush from going down. But somehow, I think deep down, he is determined to fall too. I’ve often thought that he hates his family, has been overpowered by them, and subconsciously wants to destroy any of their remaining power. I think he is developmentally disabled and has other serious psychological illnesses. I know he is learning disabled. But he isn’t far gone enough to realize his inferior position. And I think he is enraged at the powerlessness he has always experienced. He’s been the buffoon, the joker and the butt of the jokes. So his greatest revenge, since he has failed so miserably as a man and warrior, is to destroy all that the big guys in his family built. That would finally be his success. And ours too. Not that he could do it, but I’ll bet he’ll try.
The main factor would be the timing. It could be the moment for this syndicate to move over, and a new one to come in. The decay could be too advanced.

Posted by: jm | Oct 26 2005 9:53 utc | 39

@ eftsoons
I suppose it’s absurd to hope that our elected representatives will act like they serve the people,
but I would like to see popular participation in ousting the traitors, not what seems increasingly to be an
elite orchestrated defenestration via judicial water torture. I can’t fathom why only wonks like us (and I include the traditional conservative critics here) seem
to be driven to distraction by this scale of criminality and treason.
Naturally, I should also mention people like Cindy Sheehan and the Gold Star Mothers Against the War. That’s the kind of “populist” movement I would like to see “get traction”, but there are many legitimate (and non-violent) channels through which “ordinary” citizens could express their dismay. My impression is that most people still don’t give a damn enough to do anything more
symbolic than changing a choice of TV channel.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Oct 26 2005 9:54 utc | 40

Meant to say…”he isn’t far gone enough not to realize his inferior position.”

Posted by: jm | Oct 26 2005 9:57 utc | 41

Hannah,
I know how you feel. But I go by what I get on the streets, and more people than you can imagine are involved in this. There is much more political talk now and an engagement and enthusiasm that surprises me.
It’s really quite amazing. Even when I don’t want to talk about it, the subject comes up anyway. And quickly.
In the places I frequent, they are watching less television than they used to, and they are actively expressing their dismay.
It will all take time. People were so used to prosperity, ease, and an uninvolved life. I think this is changing, but the pace can be frustratingly slow. It has to go in increments so they don’t get the bends. Still, I think we should look at all progress and encourage it as much as possible, while remaining aware of the horrible problems our society faces.
I think we have to suffer through the systematic, slow judicial process at this point, but we can still build the populist effort is many small ways as we go. In fact, I think this is happening automatically.

Posted by: jm | Oct 26 2005 10:16 utc | 42

annie- I’m just trying to get an idea of what might have happened when. If the first Niger forgeries appeared in Oct. 2001, what was the meeting in Dec. 2001 about? my questions based upon the La Rep. info-
The forgery Pollari brought to the White House was supposedly from an African diplomat “who was selling forged documents.” La Rep. then says, between Oct. and November 2001.
But the break-in at the Embassy was in late Dec.2000/early Jan. (discovered on the 2nd) of 2001. Niger claims the break-in is a red herring to provide an explanation for the letterhead that appeared in Oct/Nov 2001. …which everyone claims is a forgery. So, Pollari found it useful to have the Niger break-in to explain the forgeries?
this is also interesting, of course, because 9-11 didn’t happen until Sept., later in the year. So, was Pollari’s Oct. visit with the forgeries part of the reason Rummy and Wolfie were so sure (along with the bogus thesis Wolfie bought into based upon..(.what’s that woman’s name…who knew Saddam was, in fact, Satan’s lover?) that Iraq was behind 9-11?
The Niger Embassy has long been a listening post for Italian intel. So, did they hear the break-in? if there was one…couldn’t they confirm if a break-in actually occurred? Maybe they heard someone speak? why does this break-in remind me of another break-in…whose goal, some believe, was to REMOVE listening devices from Dem Watergate Hdgtrs b/c they were trying to nail dems for nailing prostitutes…too many republicans had been involved in their other such attempts.
apparently Italian intel used their listening post activity to verify the “accuracy” of the African diplomat’s info b/c the diplomat used the Niger telex service to plant fake info on the sale?
Blair got the same info, but didn’t get the note on Wilson’s trip? So the first time GB heard of Wilson was the op-ed…and Cheney denied even knowing Wilson in any way…discrediting him with GB? British Intel was working with Italian intel in Niger, and their information didn’t match the forgeries either.
So, where did the African diplomat get those forgeries? Sounds like an obvious cut-out for someone.
Since we know Cheney was dividing up the oil fields in Iraq during his Energy Policy Task Force meetings, maybe this earlier activity was tied to the neo-con plan to take out Saddam even before 9-11. so maybe they had someone helping them plant these documents?
jonku- Cheney is the link between the OSP and the WHIG group, via Libby and Hadley and Rhodes, among others. Luti ran the OSP –he now works for Hadley, who used to work for Bolton, who had an acting chief of staff named Fleitz who was also working at the CIA, who according to this, sounds like a more plausible CIA source for Plame than Tenet…which is what Cheney claims.
I don’t see how Fitzgerald can really investigate the Plame outing without going into the whole issue of the forged docs…the incident has no context without them.

Posted by: fauxreal | Oct 26 2005 10:33 utc | 43

Thanks for all this, fauxreal.

Posted by: beq | Oct 26 2005 13:08 utc | 44

today
feeling a little doubtfull
with fitgeralds investigators doing a last minute check of plame’s neeighbourhood – of course it could be the wrk of precision – dotting i’s & crossing t’s but what i’m sensing – is the habitual légérété of justice towards the poweful
hope i’m wrong
these scoundrel need the hardest form of pinishment ‘justice’ can offer

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 26 2005 14:39 utc | 45

Fauxreal,
Hadley was also #2 to Rice; let’s not leave her out. It was Hadley who took responsibility for Bush’s “16 words” in the 2003 SotU speach. And then there is Franklin, who was also at OSP and with Rhode and Ledeen at the Italian meeting in 2001. I wonder what Rosen and Weissman know about that meeting. This stuff is so explosive that my guess is the elites will want to defuse the issue quickly by forcing resignations to make it go away. Wilkerson blasted the cabal, which Cheney headed. Then Scowcroft blasted the cabal, naming Cheney. The Italian reports are also a shot a Cheney since they talk about getting forged documents around the CIA to the White House – meaning the WHIG that Cheney headed. These reports also signal that the Italians are on board and can supply all the damaging info required to get to him. Cheney cannot survive this even if he is not indicted. My guess is senior Republicans will meet with him and give him a choice: resign or we’ll make it really nasty for you.
One other semi-related observation: business leaders in recent months have been giving speeches and interviews in business publications that Brand America is taking a big hit overseas and it hurts. (Sorry, no time to get links, but I’ve been reading the stories and B has posted some here.) Corporate America and the CIA are tight, with the CIA often interceding (i.e., threatening or bribing) foreign govts on their behalf – see Frontline Peru story last night – and Corporate America fronting CIA activities. These articles and speeches were signals to this administration that many in the Big Business wing of the Republican party were not happy and were OK with the CIA vendetta.
Bottom line: the neocons are surrounded in their little aspen grove. CIA, military, Corporate America, foreign policy realists and Republican old guard with a big assist from the Italian govt have them cornered. Leave quietly (a few indictments followed by pardons, some resignations) or we’ll blast you out. In other words, a coup.
What of Rice, Rummy and Bolten? Predictions: Rummy decides to spend more time with his family early next year after the new Iraqi govt is established @12/15; “my work is done.” No Medal of Freedom, though. Rice is allowed to stay for a decent interval before resigning to “pursue other ventures” as long as she tows the line. Bolton leaves before his recess appt is up.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Oct 26 2005 14:57 utc | 46

If the first Niger forgeries appeared in Oct. 2001, what was the meeting in Dec. 2001 about?

It’s impossible to say if all this is coincidence, but one cannot ignore the context: The Italians possess a burning desire score a win. After his bungling remarks on the Clash of Civilizations , Berlusconi is encountering problems in getting an invitation from the White House, under fire from moderate Arab regimes. Pollari is eager to quickly get in step with Premier and the new course of action. The new chief at the SISMI section in charge of WMD, Colonel Alberto Manenti (direct superior of Antonio Nucera), wants to put himself on the same page as the new SISMI director. It is a known fact that Bush shows the West Wing’s Rose Garden to Berlusconi and the CIA acknowledges, as reported by Russ Hoyle (who has been analyzing the conclusions of the US Congressional Investigation Committee) that Italian intelligence has some neatly prepackaged information with a pretty bow on the box: Negotiations (between Niamey and Baghdad) on the purchase of uranium have been ongoing since the start of 1999; the sale [of uranium to Baghdad] was approved by the Niger Supreme Council in 2000. No documentary evidence is offered to show that any shipment of uranium has occured. CIA analysts consider the report to be “somewhat limited” and “lacking in necessary detail”. Intelligence and Research analysts at the US Department of State qualify the intelligence as “highly suspect.”
The first contact with the American intelligence community is not particularly gratifying for Pollari but still highly useful. The SISMI director, who is no fool, surveys the landscape and the players of the ongoing behind-the-scenes battle in the American Administration between those who stress caution and pragmatism (the US Department of State and the CIA) and those who are looking for an excuse to start a war (Cheney and the Pentagon), which is already on the drawing board. However, when the SISMI director returns to Italy, he perceives a similar battle underway in Rome. Gianni Castellaneta advises Pollari to look in other directions , while Defense Minister Antonio Martino tell Pollari to expect a visit from an old friend of Italy .
This old friend is Michael A. Ledeen BLOCKQUOTE>
i think the 12/01 meeting was the regurgitation of the ‘evidence’.

No one knows what prompts Ledeen to return to Washington. But at the beginning of 2002,
Paul Wolfowitz convinces Dick Cheney that the uranium trail picked up by Italian intelligence should be explored in closer detail.As the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence relates, a determined Vice President makes request to the CIA to take another look into “the possible acquisition of Niger uranium.” During a meeting, Dick Cheney explicitly states that a crucial piece of intelligence is held by “a foreign intelligence agency”.

it appears to me by some stroke of fortune polari, the person willing to let SISMI purport the truth of documents it knew to be false to the CIA , becomes head of sismi (probably w/some help from a ‘friend’) and Silvio Berlusconi is finally invited to the White House by Bush. after the entrance of leeden on the scene , then the meeting in rome w/sismi, and the chabali connection, enter the arms dealer, and all of the sudden there is more hypothetical ‘evidence’ to investigate. this is where it does fget a little mushy. madsen has some theory regarding russia/wimpac/aipac/ i was reminder of because of the mention of russia in the nur piece ……also i noticed at the franklin trial this biggest outburst was him blurting out to the judge the secret doc was just a list of murders. … i have to get ready to leave.

Posted by: annie | Oct 26 2005 18:25 utc | 47