Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 29, 2005
Open Thread 05-98

Just another …

Comments

If they stole elections in 2000,2002 and 2004(they did), how can anyone think things will be different in 2006 and 2008.I think that they might even start taunting us by playing around and having some people winning by 1 vote and others getting 100%.

Posted by: R.L. | Sep 29 2005 6:42 utc | 1

I just wrote this diary on Kos: America at a crossroad.
What will happen when the folks with a 3,000 square feet house, 30 miles outside Chicago, an interest-only adjustable rate mortgage, natural gas for home heating at $15 a unit, gasoline at $5 a gallon, five maxed-up credit cards, a pension gone into smoke, owing the FuckYou Medical Corp. $50,000 for minor surgery because of $500 catheters, finally wake up?
Maréchal nous voila…

Posted by: Lupin | Sep 29 2005 8:19 utc | 2

How many moonbats knew that the White House Ordered the CIA to Organize a Coup (1996) , I sure didn’t.
For this covert action program, the CIA recruited officers within Saddam’s tight inner circle to help in a military coup d’etat. The plotters were told that the U.S. would recognize them as Iraq’s new leaders. They were given special mobile phones with direct lines to the CIA.
But Saddam was ready. A special unit of Iraqi intelligence had studied every coup of the 20th century and they penetrated this one. Saddam’s agents burst into homes across Baghdad and tortured and executed hundreds of officers.
Then Saddam’s agents found the CIA’s phones. An Iraqi intelligence officer placed a call. A U.S. agent answered. He was told, “Your men are dead. Pack up and go home.”

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 29 2005 9:11 utc | 3

The Balkanization of America continues…
On his syndicated radio show, former drug czar Bill Bennett speculated on how roe v. wade could actually fight crime, “if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down.”
Bennett goes on to say “That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.”
Could be that The Republicans have realized – post New-Orleans – that it is hopeless to court the Black vote and instead they have taken the Lee Atwater route of alienating it in an active effort to court the white racist vote.
Man, when this gets around it is going to be ugly.
The more I think about it, it is their M.O. ( modus operandi ), crisis, calamity, grief, tension, fear these people are ‘professional crisis mongers’.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 29 2005 11:26 utc | 4

I remember a day only a month or so ago when a sharp mind such as Steve Gillard (brilliant Iraq commentary from the start) was worried about allegedly racist cartoon characters on Mexican postage stamps.
Ha! The blissful cluelesness of Americans when it comes to their own country (says he, having been there, done that).

Posted by: Lupin | Sep 29 2005 11:43 utc | 5

Link to a song I dedicate to the Bugman himself, Tom DeLay

Posted by: Diogenes | Sep 29 2005 12:45 utc | 6

Meanwhile the journalistic Rats Are Digging in For The Last Stand:
LINK

Posted by: Groucho | Sep 29 2005 13:01 utc | 7

btw, while I’m not doing what I’m supposed to be doing now, (and instead reading blogs…and listening to the weather reports over and over…)
I just heard on The Early Show that the woman whose “faith” and use of Rick Warren’s “The Purpose Driven Life,” as the news touted over and over, to help her overcome a murderer who had abducted her…I forget her name…anyway, this woman actually offered her abuductor methamphetamine.
They were both addicted, and she gave him her stash. No wonder he thought she was, uh, inspiring.
okay, here’s a link. Her name is Ashley Smith. I kept thinking Ashley Simpson, but that’s the little sister of the new no talent white trash pop star du jour, isn’t it?

Posted by: fauxreal | Sep 29 2005 13:19 utc | 8

wait, there’s more…
from the link above:
She writes that she asked Nichols if he wanted to see the danger of drugs and lifted up her tank top several inches to reveal a five-inch scar down the center of her torso — the aftermath of a car wreck caused by drug-induced psychosis. She says she let go of the steering wheel when she heard a voice saying, “Let go and let God.”
soooo, what’s the difference between then and now?
btw, she’s hawking her book.
I should have posted this with my other links about the U.S. being the most dysfunctional of “emerging” democracies, and the link b/t religion and higher rates of all sorts of crimes.

Posted by: fauxreal | Sep 29 2005 13:24 utc | 9

@fauxreal
Yes.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 29 2005 13:33 utc | 10

Pandemic Flu Awareness Week is Oct 3-9. I hope Moon of Alabama will participate.
——————
here’s something I wrote myself:
GOOD NEWS about the BIRD FLU: things YOU can DO
On a personal and family level:
educate yourself about the terror of the situation, spend some time
crying and/or yelling, and then determine to do your best until the
pandemic is over or for the rest of your life, whichever comes first
accumulate a stockpile of food, water, and other supplies in case a
pandemic interrupts commerce or just makes you nervous about going out
in public to the store
maybe get antiviral drugs, if you can (Tamiflu and/or Relenza)
prepare yourself to take care of your loved ones if they become ill
on a social level:
help the people you know and care about (who will listen to you about
this) move through the steps above
on a local, state and national level:
communicate with elected officials re the urgent need for preparedness (contigency planning, funding for vaccine and antiviral research/production/stockpiling)
=======================================================
suggested readings:
On the tendency to minimize the threat posed by H5N1:
Sandman & Lanard, Bird Flu: Communicating the Risk
http://www.paho.org/English/DD/PIN/Number22_article1.htm
A broad range of information at Nature’s avian flu web focus site:
http://www.nature.com/nature/focus/avianflu/index.html
A symposium at the Wilson Center in D.C. on Sept. 19:
http://tinyurl.com/e2pen
get ready for the flu pandemic –
2 page handout at http://home.san.rr.com/earlybird/BF_PSA.pdf
a lot more info: http://tinyurl.com/cgvg3
======================================================

Basic Flu Personal Hygiene From The CDC
Cover your nose and mouth with a tissue when you cough or sneeze—throw
the tissue away after you use it.
Wash your hands often with soap and water, especially after you cough or sneeze. If you are not near water, use an alcohol-based hand cleaner.
Stay away as much as you can from people who are sick.
If you get the flu, stay home from work or school. If you are sick, do not go near other people so that you don’t make them sick too.
Try not to touch your eyes, nose, or mouth. Germs often spread this way.

Posted by: mistah charley | Sep 29 2005 14:09 utc | 11

Scam, I heard or read the line was “Your men are dead. You can come and get them.”
The more I think about it, it is their M.O. ( modus operandi ), crisis, calamity, grief, tension, fear these people are ‘professional crisis mongers’.
They want as much hate and chaos as possible. Any kind, any time. Deluded, befuddled, frightened, terrified and viciously angry citizens suits them just dandy – they become incapable of rational thought and are easy to manipulate.

Posted by: Noisette | Sep 29 2005 14:49 utc | 12

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000080&sid=aaHiMETSBWx8&refer=asia
1,000 points of light … winking out.
Do the math. Democracias Estan ‘DOA’.

Posted by: Lash Marks | Sep 29 2005 14:57 utc | 13

mistah charley:
thank you. I’ve been waiting for someone to tell me, succinctly, what to do. but what about my pet chickens? my local feed store tells me nothing.

Posted by: dk | Sep 29 2005 14:59 utc | 14

Could someone ask Billmon to provide the source for his quote on the Teamster post talking about Dreier as a time server? Thanks.

Posted by: hrc | Sep 29 2005 16:46 utc | 15

it’s happened – Senate Confirms Roberts As Chief Justice

Posted by: b real | Sep 29 2005 17:28 utc | 16

Learn to kiss the ring!

Posted by: Terrence Michaels | Sep 29 2005 18:24 utc | 17

God help us all. The whole world sees what can happen when you allow a welfare state such as exists in Louisiana to languish as is has. I do blame the Feds for not going in there prior and cleaning up that sh*t that they call local government. This is what happens when you allow tokenism. The government of NO (particularly the mayor) is filled with token blacks- period! The mayor has shown his incompetence in the past, and once again, he rises to the occasion. The Dem governor, much the same. All in all, this is yet another left-wing social engineering experiment gone horribly wrong.
Everyone in the world knows that Louisiana, and New Orleans in particular has a culture of corruption and crime that emanates from the highest levels of government right down to the police force. They are the poorest state in the union because of that corruption. The poverty and corruption combine, which is then translated into anarchy on the streets, as was shown to the whole world during the disaster relief effort. It did resemble Sadr City, Iraq, didn’t it?
Hard to blame the legitimate business owners and residents; yes, most are white because they are the few with initiative enough to actually work for a living, but there are lots of legit black residents as well. They were appalled at the conduct of their government, just as we were. So why don’t they as a population, stand up and demand better government? They share some of the blame for being apathetic, but I believe that they fear for their lives if they speak out.
And, yes, the Federal Government should have done more…but not from a disaster relief effort; more from a disaster prevention effort. They should have gone in there long ago and taken back the city of New Orleans and made those people clean up the sh*t hole that they created.
Thanks for listening.

Posted by: White Dick | Sep 29 2005 19:27 utc | 18

Things I have noticed while watching media coverage of the recent hurricanes.
1. Texas: Productive industrious state run by Republicans.
Louisiana: Government dependent welfare state run by Democrats.
2. Texas: Residents take responsibility to protect and evacuate themselves.
Louisiana: Residents wait for government to protect and evacuate them.
3. Texas: Local and state officials take responsibility for protecting their citizens and property.
Louisiana: Local and state officials blame federal government for not protecting their citizens and property.
4. Texas: Command and control remains in place to preserve order.
Louisiana: Command and control collapses allowing lawlessness.
5. Texas: Law enforcement officers remain on duty to protect city.
Louisiana: Law enforcement officers desert their posts to protect themselves.
6. Texas: Local police watch for looting.
Louisiana: Local police participate in looting.
7. Texas: Law and order remains in control, 8 looters tried it, 8 looters arrested.
Louisiana: Anarchy and lawlessness breaks out, looters take over city, no arrests, criminals with guns have to be shot by federal troops.
8. Texas: Considerable damage caused by hurricane.
Louisiana: Considerable damage caused by looters.
9. Texas: Flood barriers hold preventing cities from flooding.
Louisiana: Flood barriers fail due to lack of maintenance allowing city to flood.
10. Texas: Orderly evacuation away from threatened areas, few remain.
Louisiana: 25,000 fail to evacuate, are relocated to another flooded area.
11. Texas: Citizens evacuate with personal 3 day supply of food and water.
Louisiana: Citizens fail to evacuate with 3 day supply of food and water, do without it for the next 4 days.
12. Texas: FEMA brings in tons of food and water for evacuees. State officials provide accessible distribution points.
Louisiana: FEMA brings in tons of food and water for evacuees. State officials prevent citizens from reaching distribution points and vice versa.
13. Louisiana: Media focuses on poor blacks in need of assistance, blames Bush.
Texas: Media can’t find poor blacks in need of assistance, looking for something else to blame on Bush.
14. Texas: Coastal cities suffer some infrastructure damage, Mayors tell residents to stay away until ready for repopulation, no interference from federal officials.
Louisiana: New Orleans is destroyed, Mayor asks residents to return home as another hurricane approaches, has to be overruled by federal officials.
15. Louisiana: Over 400 killed by storm, flooding and crime.
Texas: 24 killed in bus accident on highway during evacuation, no storm related deaths.
16. Texas: Jailed prisoners are relocated to other detention facilities outside the storm area.
Louisiana: Jailed prisoners are set free to prey on city shops, residents, and homes.
17. Texas: Local and state officials work with FEMA and Red Cross in recovery operations.
Louisiana: Local and state officials obstruct FEMA and Red Cross from aiding in recovery operations.
18. Texas: Local and state officials demonstrate leadership in managing disaster areas.
Louisiana: Local and state officials fail to demonstrate leadership, require federal government to manage disaster areas.
19. Texas: Fuel deliveries can’t keep up with demand, some run out of gas on highway, need help from fuel tankers before storm arrives.
Louisiana: Motorists wait till storm hits and electrical power fails. Cars run out of gas at gas stations that can’t pump gas. Gas in underground tanks mixes with flood waters.
20. Texas: Mayors move citizens out of danger.
Louisiana: Mayor moves himself and family to Dallas.
21. Texas: Mayors continue public service announcements and updates on television with Governor’s backing and support.
Louisiana: Mayor cusses, governor cries, senator threatens president with violence on television, none of them have a clue what went wrong or who’s responsible.
22. Louisiana: Democratic Senator says FEMA was slow in responding to 911 calls from Louisiana citizens.
Texas: Republican Senator says “when you call 911, the phone doesn’t ring in Washington, it rings here at the local responders”.
What if state and local elected officials were forced to depend on themselves and their own resources instead of calling for help from the federal government? Texas cities would be back up and running in a few days. Louisiana cities would still be under water next month. Republicans call for action, Democrats call for help. What party will you be voting for in the next election?

Posted by: Peg Leg | Sep 29 2005 19:29 utc | 19

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out
how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can’t blame them, because it
has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The
reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are
confronting a natural disaster.
If this is just a natural disaster, the response! for public officials is
obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to
evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the
flooding and rebuild the city’s infrastructure. For journalists, natural
disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people
pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors,
nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do
is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are
suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists–myself included–did not
expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about
rape, murder, annd looting.
But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
federal relief a! gencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has
gotten the story wrong.
The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen
over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane
Katrina merely exposed it to public view.
The man-made disaster is the welfare state.
For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an
emergency–indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other
emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they hhave been saying
that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what
we expect from a Third World country.
When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They
work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously ! organize to
keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an
enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than
waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a
hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had
gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as
impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large
ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).
So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:
“Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives
and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and
rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
“The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guards! men poured in
to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire….
“Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas
National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.
” ‘These troops are…under my orders to restore order in the streets,’ she
said. ‘They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know
how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary
and I expect they will.’ ”
The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article
shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an
armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid,
listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly
like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an
orgy of looting, armed robbery, and ! rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm
the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to
drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the
doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?
Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?
My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News
Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied
architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the
South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of
the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. “The projects,” as
they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable
squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demol! ished.)
What Sherri was getting from last night’s television coverage was a whiff of
the sense of life of “the projects.” Then the “crawl”–the informational
phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels–gave some
vital statistics to connfirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans
had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who
remained, a large number were from the city’s public housing projects. Jack
Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN
and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the
prisoners in the city’s jails–so they just let many of them loose. There is
no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations–that is, a
large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects,
and vice versa.
There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
deluge hit–but they were tr! apped alongside large numbers of people from two
groups: criminals–and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over
decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessnesss. The
welfare wards were a mass of sheep–on whom the incompetent administration
of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the
city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city,
despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted
by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of
handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters–not to
ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.
No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some
are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for
failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of N! ew Orleans had drafted an
adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the
Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on
American “individualism.” But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos
was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.
What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the
welfare state. What we consider “normal” behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a
disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the
difficulties they face. They don’t sit around and complain that the
government hasn’t taken care of them. They don’t use the chaos of a disaster
as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving
their houses and property? They don’t, because they don’t own anything. Do
they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are
going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do
they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way
of life for them.
The welfare state–and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and
encourages–is the man-made disaster that explains the moral uglinness that
has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Posted by: Robert Tracinski | Sep 29 2005 19:30 utc | 20

Who let that racist fashist idiot in?
Ahh – don´t feed the trolls please.

Posted by: b | Sep 29 2005 19:31 utc | 21

John “Barleycorn” Birch -meets- Dred Scott.
How beautiful, on the anniversary date when
SCOTUS has gone retrograde back to Jim Crow.

Posted by: Lash Marks | Sep 29 2005 19:33 utc | 22

Three troll post, all from the same IP address 198.238.178.80. Whois says that IP is:
“State of Washington – Department of Fish and Wildlife DFW1-WA-NET”
Abuse of government resources I´d say.
Could someone in the states give those numbers below a call? I don´t want to pay transatlantic cost just to out a bigot.
NetRange: 198.238.0.0 – 198.238.255.255
CIDR: 198.238.0.0/16
NetName: NETBLK-WDIS-1
NetHandle: NET-198-238-0-0-1
Parent: NET-198-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: DISDNS1.WA.GOV
NameServer: DISDNS2.WA.GOV
Comment:
RegDate: 1993-09-13
Updated: 2002-10-30
TechHandle: LR421-ARIN
TechName: Ramirez, Loretta
TechPhone: +1-360-902-3396
TechEmail: LORETTAR@dis.wa.gov
OrgTechHandle: DPC18-ARIN
OrgTechName: DIS IP Management and Planning
OrgTechPhone: +1-360-902-3396
OrgTechEmail: ipmgmt@dis.wa.gov
OrgName: State of Washington – Department of Fish and Wildlife
OrgID: SWDFW
Address: P. O. Box 43135
City: Olympia
StateProv: WA
PostalCode: 98504-3135
Country: US

Posted by: b | Sep 29 2005 19:41 utc | 23

Good:
Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Photos

A federal judge ruled today that graphic pictures of detainee abuse at Iraq’s Abu Ghraib prison must be released over government claims that they could damage America’s image. Last year a Republican senator conceded that they contained scenes of “rape and murder” and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said they included acts that were “blatantly sadistic.”

Posted by: b | Sep 29 2005 19:55 utc | 24

Joseph L. Galloway author of “”We Were Soldiers Once … and Young” writes:

There have been 17 separate investigations of Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo and other prisoner abuse scandals. All have gone straight to the bottom of every case. All have consistently claimed that no one higher up the chain of command, including the civilian leadership in the Pentagon, bears any responsibility for any of this.
Hogwash. BS. Nonsense.
If the lowest private fails, then others have failed in training, leading and directing that private. The chain runs from sergeant to lieutenant to captain to lieutenant colonel to colonel to one, two, three and four stars, on to the longest serving, most arrogant secretary of defense in our history, Donald H. Rumsfeld, and beyond him to the commander in chief, President Bush.
It’s long past time for responsibility to begin flowing uphill in this administration. It’s time for our leaders to take responsibility for what’s being done in all our names and under our proud flag. It’s time for Congress to do its job if the administration won’t do its job.

Ack

Posted by: b | Sep 29 2005 19:58 utc | 25

Top U.S. General Says Number of Capable Iraqi Battalions Drops to One

The number of Iraqi battalions capable of combat without U.S. support has dropped from three to one, the top American commander in Iraq told Congress Thursday, prompting Republicans to question whether U.S. troops will be able to withdraw next year.
Gen. George Casey, softening his previous comments that a “fairly substantial” pull out could begin next spring and summer, told lawmakers that troops could begin coming home from Iraq next year depending on conditions during and after the upcoming elections there.

Posted by: b | Sep 29 2005 20:19 utc | 26

What a delightful pack of lies from the right! Texas ain’t all that good right now bozo and only got a light hit compared to New Orleans. And reports of crime in New Orleans have been proven to be exaggerated! And you lost all credibility when you quoted from the right wing Moonie rag, the Washington Times! Sorry. Intelligent people don’t get their news from the Moonies and their sex cult friends! Good to know that the government is paying for the time some Neocon wanna be spends on posting right wing spam! For all we know it may be part of his/her/its job description!

Posted by: Diogenes | Sep 29 2005 20:25 utc | 27

@Diogenes
We’ve had trolls before, we’ll have trolls again. The point of the troll is not to illuminate but rather to outrage and derail (I’m not going to post the troll FAQ for a third time). Refuting a troll, or even responding to it at all, is counterproductive. Bernhard has asked us kindly not to feed them and I agree that this is the best course.

Posted by: Monolycus | Sep 29 2005 20:41 utc | 28

@Bernhard
RE: Judge Orders Release of Abu Ghraib Photos
I have very mixed feelings about this. I agree that the federal government has no legal grounds to prevent the release of these pieces of evidence(Tarnishing America’s image? Cut me some slack… if the Downing Street Minutes or the complete failure to discover stockpiles of WMD in Iraq hadn’t already destroyed any international credibility the US had, this argument might have some merit). If I truly believed that incontrovertible proof of American-led atrocities would drastically impact the national Weltbild and expedite the demise of CheneyCo and their policies, then my support of this decision would be unreserved.
But I am not convinced of that.
As Billmon described in his post about the “war as porn” contingent of the US, many people (for lack of a better term… can you be human if you are inhumane?) would see these atrocities as a good thing (“Look what we’re doing to them thar terrorists! That’ll learn ’em not to stand in the way of democracy!”). For the true believer, nothing so trivial as genocide, torture, rape or murder will shake their belief that they are the good guys. And America, at this time, can boast a sizable fraction of its population as belonging to the camp of “true believers”.
The release of these photos is certain to bolster those of us who already believe that America has become monstrously harmful to itself and the rest of the world, but this is merely preaching to the choir. The photos and videos have an equally good chance of being used by the bloodthirsty to satisfy their war-porn fix… and in doing so will raise the bar for what will be sufficiently atrocious the next time these warmongers (and the next generation of warmongers) find themselves at odds with any deme of people (or even simply bored).

Posted by: Monolycus | Sep 29 2005 21:13 utc | 29

@Monolycus – those pictures
Are the folks who would see real war pictures as a satisfaction the majority in the US? I really hope they are not and I don´t think they are.
This war has been sanitized like none before and it is really really time for pictures to become public, to be on the front pages, to show the people what they did vote for.
Rove knows this and the order is out to prevent such pictures (“waste” a few photographers if needed – who cares). I want these pictures in prime time on every news channel that is out there.
I´ll post more on the why tomorrow.

Posted by: b | Sep 29 2005 21:23 utc | 30

So, compromise perhaps, and merely turn them over to West Point Faculty for teaching Sr. Seminar: Most Effective Methods of Torture.

Posted by: jj | Sep 29 2005 21:27 utc | 31

@Bernhard
I’d like to believe that the kinds of folks I described weren’t a clear majority, but public executions have sporadically been fun viewing for the whole family during certain periods in history and you’ve already heard from Billmon about the popularity of such sites as NowThatsFuckedUp.com. I don’t want to get off on a tangent about how ubiquitous violence in our society is (movies, television, video games, et cetera), but the fact of the matter is that these people do really exist and their numbers are not negligible.
One of the most deeply ingrained problems that the Left faces, in my opinion, is that they frequently found their ideas on the axiom that people are basically good. I hate to be more and more jaded, but the evidence to me has been pointing to the contrary. We have more than our share of bloodthirsty sociopaths here who would positively revel in the suffering of others. In the times I have travelled abroad, I have not seen such a degree of callousness or Puritan ethics as I have at home; although I have read about these attitudes in earlier societies, so I don’t think it’s peculiar to having been born and raised on American soil.
I am not against the release of these pictures. And I am expecting a well-warranted reaction of disgust and outrage; I am just not expecting it to come from many of my fellow Americans. And, yes, the Iraqi War, the Afghanistan War, the War on Terra… these have all been artificially sanitised in that Potemkin fashion that has become the hallmark of CheneyCo. If nothing else, exposure to these images might lead to a more balanced version of what is transpiring in future history books.

Posted by: Monolycus | Sep 29 2005 22:01 utc | 32

b, re Org Name Fascist Posts: Merely working through my
lunchhour posting you copies of what is going around the
Net from the dark side…don’t kill the messenger, study
the messages, before it becomes Repug dialogue de jeur.
If you called and busted me, I can always work at FEMA!

Posted by: DoFW | Sep 29 2005 22:17 utc | 33

@b,

I don´t want to pay transatlantic cost just to out a bigot.

Not saying you should bother with a troll, but if you do want to go audio I have really good results with Skype (on OSX). It costs me only .02 euro per minute to call virtually anywhere from anywhere. No affiliation etc.

Posted by: PeeDee | Sep 29 2005 22:24 utc | 34

The number of Iraqi battalions capable of combat without U.S. support has dropped from three to one, the top American commander in Iraq told Congress Thursday, prompting Republicans to question whether U.S. troops will be able to withdraw next year.
Farking surreal. In a thousand years they’ll perhaps have a brigade.

Posted by: Groucho | Sep 29 2005 23:51 utc | 35

bernard, i just called and spoke to loretta. i sent her the info . she thanked me and said she would deal w/it and thanked me.

Posted by: annie | Sep 30 2005 0:14 utc | 36

Canary Girl Miller to sing in Plame leak case

Posted by: Squealer News | Sep 30 2005 1:05 utc | 37

Busy & Tired, but just wanted to thank Bernhard for keeping things going. Still the most fun & interesting place on the web. And a special welcome to tante aime & jm for their contributions.
I particularly enjoyed the last few days were there were parallel discussions on separate threads – one on manufacturing/ec. decay on General Morons while Open thread featured discussion of political & social decay.
Thanks Everyone for making this place so enjoyable.

Posted by: jj | Sep 30 2005 2:14 utc | 38

The ‘Second’ Man
The slain Abu Azzam may not have been Zarqawi’s top deputy after all. Now there’s a truly shocking surprise.

Posted by: Template News | Sep 30 2005 2:40 utc | 39

Ex-Security Chief Blows Whistle on UN’s Kosovo Mission
Following five years of United Nations control and billions of dollars of international aid, Kosovo is a lawless region “owned” by the Albanian mafia, characterized by continuing ethnic cleansing and subject to increasing infiltration by al Qaeda-linked Muslim jihadists, according to a whistleblower interviewed by Cybercast News Service.
The U.N.’s repeated failure to act on received intelligence has allowed illegal paramilitary groups to flourish and engage in terrorist attacks aimed at destabilizing regional governments in the Balkans, said Thomas Gambill, a former security chief with the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), self-described as the world’s largest regional security agency.
Gambill was responsible for overseeing the eastern region of Gjilane in Kosovo from 1999 until 2004 under the authority of the U.N. His criticism comes as the United Nations prepares to launch final status talks on the troubled province of Kosovo, which has been a U.N. protectorate since North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) forces bombed Yugoslavia between March and May of 1999 to compel the Serb-dominated government of Slobodan Milosovic to withdraw its forces from Kosovo.

Gambill shared hundreds of pages of U.N. and OSCE documents with Cybercast News Service, showing how the Serbs and other minorities were systematically and successfully targeted for removal from Kosovo.

Posted by: b real | Sep 30 2005 3:20 utc | 40

Judith Miller Out of Jail, Will Testify Friday

‘ One lawyer involved in the case told the Washington Post today that Miller’s attorneys reached an agreement with Fitzgerald that may confine prosecutors’ questions to her chats with Libby. Under one scenario, Miller won the right to not implicate others she may have talked to about Plame. ‘

Perhaps Fitzgerald, deadline looming, is settling for who or what he can get?

Posted by: John Francis Lee | Sep 30 2005 4:34 utc | 41

“Perhaps Fitzgerald, deadline looming, is settling for who or what he can get?”
For some reason I can’t tell whether it’s shit or roses I’m smelling here.

Posted by: pb | Sep 30 2005 6:00 utc | 42

@annie – thanks 🙂

Posted by: b | Sep 30 2005 6:26 utc | 43

b wrote: (“waste” a few photographers if needed – who cares).
Just as b wrote his post at Sep 29, 2005 5:23:06 PM, I couldn’t help but laugh at the irony of the following:
US forces ‘out of control’, says Reuters chief .
Reuters has told the US government that American forces’ conduct towards journalists in Iraq is “spiralling out of control” and preventing full coverage of the war reaching the public.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 30 2005 8:04 utc | 44

@ Monolycus
Don’t forget in Bob Woodward’s cbs interview w/regards Bush and the Iraq war Woodward asks:
How does the president think history will judge him for going to war in Iraq?
“After the second interview with him on Dec. 11, we got up and walked over to one of the doors. There are all of these doors in the Oval Office that lead outside. And he had his hands in his pocket, and I just asked, ‘Well, how is history likely to judge your Iraq war,’” says Woodward.
“And he said, ‘History,’ and then he took his hands out of his pocket and kind of shrugged and extended his hands as if this is a way off. And then he said, ‘History, we don’t know. We’ll all be dead.’”

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 30 2005 8:17 utc | 45

Curious piece by Sydney Blumenthal on Karn Hughes’ whirlwind redemption in the Middle East tour. Seems her approach is working wonders for Osama;
With these well-meaning arguments, Hughes has provided the exact proof for what Osama bin Laden has claimed about American motives. “It is stunning … the extent [to which] Hughes is helping bin Laden,” Robert Pape told me. Pape, a University of Chicago political scientist who has conducted the most extensive research into the backgrounds and motives of suicide terrorists, is the author of “Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,” and recently briefed the Pentagon and the National Counterterrorism Center. “If you set out to help bin Laden,” he said, “you could not have done it better than Hughes.”
……………………………
Here we go again with the “is it incompetence or is it a plan” thing.

Posted by: anna missed | Sep 30 2005 8:56 utc | 46

@anna missed
Here we go again with the “is it incompetence or is it a plan” thing.
Qui Bono? I mean really, what difference does it make?
W/these people, they benefit either way. The are masters in the art of intellectual jujitsu, they promote their beliefs in absolute knowledge by invoking the relativistic in every argument. You can’t win w/these fuckers, their like abusive domestic partners.
Warning Signs in Abusive Person’s Behavior With You or Other Adults:
•Has an excessive and early attachment, with a quick push for commitment. [Check.]
•Is possessive. Calls and visits unexpectedly, checks up on you, reads your mail, monitors and/or interferes with other relationships. [Check.]
•Is excessively controlling — of money, investments, entertainment. Interrogates you about your activities. Tries to keep you from making decisions for yourself. Expects you to stay in a stereotypical or servant role. Enjoys trapping you. [Check.]
•Expects you to meet every need and “be there.” Will have impossible expectations, and when you fail to meet them, will make you responsible, saying, “this is all your fault,” “I wouldn’t get so angry if you’d just do things right,” or “if only you’d be nice to me, I could be nice to you.” [Check.]
•Tries to isolate you from family and friends (saying they only “cause trouble”). [Check.]
•Consistently blames others – friends, family, the children, government, employer, police, teachers – for problems or things that go wrong. [Check.]
•Has low self-esteem. Is hypersensitive to criticism and easy to insult. Will rant and rave about things that can’t be helped, and will claim to be hurt when actually angry. [Check.]
•Flaunts power symbols — such as weapons or brute force. [Check.]
•Withholds support, love, or affection out of anger, hurt, or need for power. [Check.]
•Enjoys hurtful, degrading, or violent sex. Finds the idea of rape thrilling. Will ignore your protests by telling you “it’s all in fun.” [Check.]
•Has poor control over emotions. Has erratic and severe mood swings — going from sweet and tender one minute to angry or violent the next. [Check.]
•Might admit to hitting a partner in the past, but says the partner “made” him/her do it. [Check.]
•Is critical of you and others. Will say hurtful, even cruel things, and might enjoy waking you up just to criticize you. Might threaten you with violence, saying “I’ll break your neck,” or “I’ll kill you,” and will dismiss your fears with “You’re crazy,” “You’re no fun,” “I was just talking,” or “Everybody says that.” Might even seem honestly remorseful…but the remorse doesn’t last. [Check.]
•Uses the children against you; threatens you with loss of your children or with harm to your children if you don’t do what you’re told. [Check.]
•Threatens you with suicide or with reporting you to authorities; makes you participate in illegal activity in order to hold you. [Check.]

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Sep 30 2005 10:10 utc | 47

Merely working through my lunchhour posting you copies of what is going around the Net…
Posted by: DoFW | Sep 29, 2005 6:17:00 PM
DoFW – Lash Marks – Robert Tracinski – Peg Leg – White Dick – Terrence Michaels – Trini Lopez – Clint Calder – Alice Walters – Larry Ellison – Telly Longerford – Frangi Pan – tante aime – … – all posting from 1 IP-address
tante aime, that are some long lunchhours you have there sitting in front of your taxpayer sponsered PC.
If I want to read the bullshit that´s out there, I can always go the freepers sites. I really don´t need it here.

Posted by: b | Sep 30 2005 11:24 utc | 48

Why is it that people can see through the BS that the media tout about Iraq, SCOTUS, POTUS, FEMA blah blah yet they are so prepared to accept the ‘pandemic’ talk being promoted by WHO in an attempt to boost sales for drug companies hurting badly after some of their ‘best sellers’ aimed at the aging baby boomers ie Vioxx and other anti athritic painkillers have been pulled from the market tanking their stock prices?
Yes there probably will be another pandemic but whatever it is will come out of left field and apart from teaching people to practise basic hygene (handwashing etc) there is not much that can be done in advance without knowing the precise virus that will feature in the pandemic.
THe WHO and drug companies caused worldwide panic a couple of years ago with SARS rumors. These killed tourism travel around the world but didn’t eventuate a situation which we now get all sorts of fanciful excuses for before being told that avian flu is different and what saved the world from SARS won’t work for it.
The current situation of half the world queing up for Tamiflu while the other half bemoan their lack of access to it is incredibly destructive.
It means that Tamiflu is being sought after by public health agencies the world over and demand is exceeding supply so that Tamiflu is getting a premium price.
Maybe in the US it doesn’t matter so much but I thought this whole HMO thing meant severely limited budgets and access to treatment. The rest of the world who have publically funded health agencies that are coming under pressure from politicians who are being pressured by worried constituents is seeing limited resources spent on a product that may never be needed and if it is all of these ‘stockpiles’ could well be out of date before they are called upon.
The pandemic may come from avian influenza but it is far more likely that it will not.
65 people have died from Avian flu in the last couple of years across the whole world. There must be thousands of infectious diseases with a higher death rate.
Despite the numbers of people who have become infected, a situation that is a direct result of developing countries adopting intensive bird farming methods without having access to the best technology to manage these methods, at no time has anyone caught the disease from another person.
In every case the flu has been caught from a bird and as long as that continues there is no chance of avian flu spreading amongst the general population.
Don’t fall for it. Yes a pandemic may occur soon but this is something that people will have little control over until they KNOW what the infectious agent is, so no amount of panic and fear in the community will achieve anything positive.
It will mean that if the pandemic hits and isn’t avian flu, something that is highly probable, people will be much worse off because agencies won’t have the resources to pay for whatever the drug is that is deemed the ‘cure’.
At that time we can be sure that whatever ‘the cure’ is it will be getting top dollar as demand outstrips supply.
This is a bad time in the life of an open thread to introduce a new angle especially without links but if this post does strike a chord with anyone google away and let us know how you went.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 30 2005 12:02 utc | 49

My apologies for the troll reaction earlier. I just hate to see our bar violated by this kind of trash. In fact, the piece, despite it homespun appearance is part of a highly organized spam operation, probably aimed at blogs that lean to the left. Note the Google search of one sentence and what it yields:

Link to Spam Google Search

Usually I ignore cut and paste propaganda. But I don’t often see this type of thing here. My apologies.

Posted by: Diogenes | Sep 30 2005 12:04 utc | 50

“If I want to read the bullshit that´s out there, I can always go the freepers sites. I really don´t need it here.” sure doesn’t seem like the usual syntax we know and love.
Perhaps someone is upset at being caught out trolling.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 30 2005 12:06 utc | 51

Thank you, too, jj. Pleasures are few sometimes and should be enjoyed thoroughly in my opinion.
The problem is, is that the pictures won’t do anything to solve the problem. So it becomes an empty ritual that probably only serves a perverse desire for gratification, especially since the people know what happened. These are just details that won’t motivate the public to an uprising. Only a tsk tsk.
I’m not against the release of the photos. I am just disgusted with the continuing charade that occurs around human low-down bullshit. How people say they are outraged and then wait in high expectation for the next even more disgusting round. It’s a continuing contract between the perpetrators and the witnesses that is a never-ending cycle. And the justification around it saying this is important, that it insures freedom of the press, and that the people need to see the realities…is even more bullshit to me.
Why isn’t some of this titillating energy going into stopping it? Or at least asking some questions in that direction. I sense denial about what is really happening with this torture palace. It seems that everybody looks in shocked, but feigned horror. Now that we are so jaded. In some infinitessimal way, every repeated witnessing contributes to its continuation when nothing is done.
It might even slow progress in that people can rest in the comfort that it is not happening to them or in their vicinity. It falsely reassures them of their safety at the moment.

Posted by: jm | Sep 30 2005 15:47 utc | 52

Bush wants to federate the desaster efforts of the states and let the military lead and now he is getting amBushed by his brother in a WaPo editorial. Think Locally On Relief
Can you spell L.A.M.E. D.U.C.K?

Posted by: b | Sep 30 2005 16:51 utc | 53

debs is dead –
there are quite a number of factual errors in your argument – i will only address one now – namely “at no time has anyone caught the disease from another person”
i append here –
1)an abstract from the New England Journal of Medicine about a case last year (2004)
2)a report from Recombinomics about family clusters in the current outbreak in indonesia

New England Journal of Medicine
Volume 352:333-340 January 27, 2005 Number 4
Probable Person-to-Person Transmission of Avian Influenza A (H5N1)
Kumnuan Ungchusak, M.D., M.P.H., Prasert Auewarakul, M.D., Scott F.
Dowell, M.D., M.P.H., Rungrueng Kitphati, M.D., Wattana Auwanit,
Ph.D., Pilaipan Puthavathana, Ph.D., Mongkol Uiprasertkul, M.D.,
Kobporn Boonnak, M.Sc., Chakrarat Pittayawonganon, M.D., Nancy J. Cox,
Ph.D., Sherif R. Zaki, M.D., Ph.D., Pranee Thawatsupha, M.S., Malinee
Chittaganpitch, B.Sc., Rotjana Khontong, M.D., James M. Simmerman,
R.N., M.S., and Supamit Chunsutthiwat, M.D., M.P.H.
ABSTRACT
Background
During 2004, a highly pathogenic avian influenza A (H5N1) virus caused
poultry disease in eight Asian countries and infected at least 44
persons, killing 32; most of these persons had had close contact with
poultry. No evidence of efficient person-to-person transmission has
yet been reported. We investigated possible person-to-person
transmission in a family cluster of the disease in Thailand.
Methods
For each of the three involved patients, we reviewed the circumstances
and timing of exposures to poultry and to other ill persons. Field
teams isolated and treated the surviving patient, instituted active
surveillance for disease and prophylaxis among exposed contacts, and
culled the remaining poultry surrounding the affected village.
Specimens from family members were tested by viral culture,
microneutralization serologic analysis, immunohistochemical assay,
reverse-transcriptase–polymerase-chain-reaction (RT-PCR) analysis, and
genetic sequencing.
Results
The index patient became ill three to four days after her last
exposure to dying household chickens. Her mother came from a distant
city to care for her in the hospital, had no recognized exposure to
poultry, and died from pneumonia after providing 16 to 18 hours of
unprotected nursing care. The aunt also provided unprotected nursing
care; she had fever five days after the mother first had fever,
followed by pneumonia seven days later. Autopsy tissue from the mother
and nasopharyngeal and throat swabs from the aunt were positive for
influenza A (H5N1) by RT-PCR. No additional chains of transmission
were identified, and sequencing of the viral genes identified no
change in the receptor-binding site of hemagglutinin or other key
features of the virus. The sequences of all eight viral gene segments
clustered closely with other H5N1 sequences from recent avian isolates
in Thailand.
Conclusions
Disease in the mother and aunt probably resulted from person-to-person
transmission of this lethal avian influenzavirus during unprotected
exposure to the critically ill index patient.
======================================
H5N1 Cluster in South Sulawesi Increases Pandemic Concerns
Recombinomics Commentary
September 29, 2005

the two citizens of the Soreang District, Parepare, that was brought to the Public Hospital of Andi Makassau underwent the maintenance.
Both of them were put into isolation space.
Sania and Sanawira suffered the high fever and had difficulty breathing….
The citizen of the Soreang District, Parepare was it was suspected strong tertular his mother that died.
The mother had the sign similar to birds flu namely the high fever and had difficulty breathing.

The above machine translation describes a familial cluster in the Soreang District of South Sulawesi. The mother has already died with bird flu symptoms and now two of her children have symptoms. The map of H5N1 bird flu cases in Indonesia shows that the cases are spread throughout the country and are appearing as clusters. In Jakarta (see map) there are clusters of clusters.
These larger growing clusters define phase 5 of a pandemic and as the reports accumulate daily, it seems that Indonesia is very close to the final phase 6, which is defined by sustained transmission in humans.
Some of the members of the familial clusters may have become infected by a common source, but the vast majority have a 5-10 day gap between the onset of symptoms in the index case and family members. This time gap is characteristic of human-to-human transmission.
The first two confirmed cases in Indonesia were both members of familial clusters with such a gap, and the frequency of these reported clusters is increasing.
A baby of an admitted patient was admitted yesterday in Jakarta, a sibling of two fatal cases in Demak, near Samerang in Central Java was just admitted, and now there is the above cluster in South Sulawesi involving a new admission.
Although the WHO is discounting these new cases, in part because samples are collected after the H5N1 has moved out of the nose and throat, the positive antibody levels in some patients coupled with PCR data and symptoms in others, paints a clear picture that WHO refuses to acknowledge.
The program of interventions with Tamiflu was based on a single outbreak in a remote village in Thailand. The widespread clusters and clusters of clusters in Indonesia indicate that the pace of H5N1 spread in Indonesia far outdistances WHO’s ability to even write press releases that are current. Their count of just 4 confirmed H5N1 cases throughout all of Indonesia compliments their scandalous monitoring of H5N1 worldwide.
H5N1 has clearly evolved and has become markedly more efficient at transmitting among humans, and has done so via recombination. WHO continues to monitor reassortment with human genes, which has never been reported for H5N1 and is conceptually flawed, since the human receptor binding domain resides on the HA protein and swapping away the H gene would eliminate the H5 serotype.
H5 will clearly be resident in humans worldwide.
The resulting major pandemic appears to be accelerating in Indonesia at this time.
from http://www.recombinomics.com

Posted by: mistah charley | Sep 30 2005 18:25 utc | 54

FDNY Chaplain Resigns After Remarks About 9/11 Conspiracy Theory
NEW YORK (AP) — The fire department’s Muslim chaplain abruptly resigned Friday after saying in a published interview that a conspiracy, not 19 al-Qaida hijackers, may have been responsible for the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
“It became clear to him that he would have difficulty functioning as an FDNY chaplain,” Fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta told reporters an hour before Imam Intikab Habib was to be officially sworn in. “There has been no prior indication that he held those views.”
Habib told Newsday that he was skeptical of the official version of the attack on the World Trade Center, which killed 343 members of the Fire Department of New York. The newspaper published the interview hours before the swearing-in ceremony Friday.

newsday article

Incoming FDNY chaplain questions 9/11 story
An imam slated to be sworn in Friday as the second Muslim chaplain in Fire Department history said he questioned whether 19 hijackers were responsible for the Sept. 11 terror attacks, and suggested a broader conspiracy may have brought down the Twin Towers and killed more than 2,700 people.
In a telephone interview Thursday, Imam Intikab Habib, 30, a native of Guyana who studied Islam in Saudi Arabia, said he doubted the United States government’s official story blaming 19 hijackers associated with al-Quaida and Osama bin Laden.

Habib’s remarks about the attacks came in response to questions about whether he thought firefighters would accept a chaplain who had been educated in Saudi Arabia.
He said he did not expect that to be an issue because “I come from a country where you’re accustomed to living with people of different ethnic, religious and racial backgrounds.”
When pressed further about whether the hijackers’ backgrounds — 15 of whom were Saudi — might make his training an issue for still-grieving firefighters, he went on to express his own doubts about the hijacker story.

Posted by: b real | Sep 30 2005 18:54 utc | 55

meant to add a comment on that story. so why doesn’t the official story – that 19 hijackers in the service of AQ planned & executed the events of that day – qualify as a conspiracy? more than one person conspired to make it happen? as another thread here makes mention of, it might be a very good idea to abandon english u.s.-style.

Posted by: b real | Sep 30 2005 18:57 utc | 56

@Mistah Charley
As your two extracts show there is no definitive evidence of human to human transmission of avian flu.
The examples you quote merely point to a possibility of transmission being person to person but there are many other possibilities particularly when you consider the high usage of Ayam (poultry) in the Indonesian and Thai diet.
The unethical relationship between senior bureaucrats in the World Health Organisation and the pharmaceutical industry has led to these panics before notably SARS. The costs to medical services in developing countries by these scare tactics has been huge.
If WHO really is concerned about a looming pandemic why is the bulk of the resourcing being directed at Tamiflu stocks rather than modifying the conditions that has led to this limited outbreak?
I notice from the second article you included that WHO isn’t moving fast enough for some of the fear mongerers out there. That Recombinomics mob have provided an article based more on gossip than peer reviewed study.
Of course many agencies are going to be slow on the uptake about this but that doesn’t mean they are wrong about this disease it means that they are being typically fiscally conservative bureaucrats.
The parallels with SARS are legion. The allegations of under reporting when really a lot of that can be put down to a mixture of poor communications and social education combined with health professionals’ requirement for substantive proof.
The Asian origins are worth commenting on too since these panics appear to have an element of the “Yellow Peril” about them and like SARS this will cause all sorts of problems for Asian people living in non Asian communities.
Tamiflu is really more of a gamble than anything because it’s efficacy is largely untested on Avian Flu. Further no one knows what the infectious agent will be in the next pandemic so the whole idea of preparing stocks of a specific remedy is insanity.
Every year people go and innoculate themselves against the most prevalent flus. Those infuenza viruses are selected from the ones most abundant in the world community. Avian flu would never be included in that innoculation because it hasn’t spread into the community anything like enough and person to person contact is yet to be documented.
Yes Avian Flu could be the agent in the next pandemic but it is more likely that it won’t be since there are literally thousands of infectious diseases out there and pandemics occur very infrequently.
We are being conned you can jump on the bandwagon if you want but I shan’t.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Sep 30 2005 21:52 utc | 57

a thousand words

Posted by: DM | Oct 1 2005 0:54 utc | 58

@DiD We are being conned
I’ve had the whiff of horseshit on this one for a while – but no time to ponder. I does seem like orchestrated fear-mongering. Is it all about money after all?

Posted by: DM | Oct 1 2005 1:16 utc | 59

WHO warns against bird flu ‘scaremongering’


The WHO is stockpiling supplies of Tamiflu to help cash-strapped developing countries deal with an outbreak and stop further spread, after a donation from its Swiss manufacturer, Roche.
More than 30 governments have also ordered millions of doses from the pharmaceutical giant.

How much is the donation/promo costing Roche? How much do Roche make out of this deal?

Posted by: DM | Oct 1 2005 1:41 utc | 60

Just a thought that occurred to me, re the use of “conspiracy”: there is a subtle difference between Al Queda planning September 11 and, say, the CIA planning September 11. If Al Queda was planning this, it is no surprise to anyone—their supporters can’t claim that they would never do such a thing, their enemies can’t claim that it is unexpected. Strikes against “the west” are a part of their stated goal. But if the CIA (or any other federal agency) did it, then it would be a secret from anyone who believes that the CIA exists for the good of the country, assuming any such could be found in this day and age.

Granted, that doesn’t mean that if Al Queda did it, it wasn’t a conspiracy, but words have connotations as well as denotations, and a good writer will avoid situations where the technical differences between the two would disagree. (When Cheney has his coronary, we won’t see headlines saying “Veep Pops His Clogs—Dead As Doornail” no matter how accurate that might technically be.)

Posted by: The Truth Gets Vicious When You Corner It | Oct 2 2005 0:23 utc | 61