Skirmish Over a Query About Roberts’s Faith

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 30 2005 19:26 utc | 3

Keep em comin tainty aimy. We want more (…more …more)

Posted by: rapt | Jul 30 2005 19:38 utc | 5

Just back to Uncle $cam’s post about the Uzbekistan ‘demand’ for US military to leave an airbase within 6 months.
The BBC has a report on it. Unfortunately if the BBC report assessment is accurate this request is probably an ambit claim by Islam Karimov to create the worst of possible worlds for the people of Uzbekistan.
The Pentagon doesn’t appear to be that phased by it to wit:
A Pentagon spokesman said the US was “evaluating the note to see exactly what it means”.
A clue to it’s true meaning may be found here:
Flights into the K2 base had been reduced at the request of the Uzbek authorities, after the US criticised the government over events in Andijan.
Earlier this month, the US signalled that it may withhold $22m of aid to Uzbekistan, unless it allows a full inquiry.
Rummy has been around looking for fall back positions lately in Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan so the US is obviously trying to bluff, but of course Rummy must deal with this problem:
Earlier this month, Russia, China and four Central Asian states demanded a timetable for US troop withdrawal from the region, saying military operations in Afghanistan were coming to an end.
Now Karimov knows that he will always have a fallback position, the real question is whether he believes that there’s a buck in siding with Russia and China.
Maybe nowadays there is. In the old Cold War days when Nasser (Egypt) and Sukarno (Indonesia) played this game to perfection and with a lot more panache than Karimov. Eventually in any card game if one player has far more money than the others and the stakes are unlimited the richest player will win. The US always had the most money so in the end they would win.
The result in Indonesia was horrific Sukarno was ousted in a US supported coup which resulted in the deaths of many hundreds of thousands of citizens and then left Indonesia under the control of a corrupt despot for more than two decades.
The Egyptian outcome was arguably worse. When Nasser was replaced as president by Anwar Sadat the US had all their ducks in a row. Nasser had relied on Soviet funding to build the Aswan complex on the Nile, primarily because of friction between Egypt on the subject of (guess what?) Israel. The US left nothing to chance this time particularly since Egypt’s humiliation in the Six-Day War of 1967 made it possible for a wily politician to argue that Egypt’s continuing support of the Palestinian cause wasn’t in the best interests of the Egyptian people. So Anwar baby assisted in the stitch up at Camp David and in return got assistance in keeping his conservative and increasingly repressive regime in place. Although Sadat was held to account for his treachery the Egyptian people have not had a leader who regarded them as anything but a pain in the ass or an exploitable resource since Nasser.
So does China have the bucks to sit at the table? Probably. Does China want to play? Hard to say. If it can secure a pipeline without Uzbekistan it will. On the other hand Russia has gone to great lengths to ensure China understands it is the dominant player in the area. Maybe China will decide that letting the US stay will aid it to keep Russia off balance, but whatever happens we can be sure that the long suffering Uzbek citizens will continue to suffer since all three powers seem to consider only Karimov as capable of maintaining stability.

Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 30 2005 22:57 utc | 7

Behan:
Unfortunately, we are about to witness a Viet Nam era replay. If you recall the 1970’s, the US was steaming along mightily on huge defense spending, until the Paris Accords, and transfer of power to ARVN security forces, with gradual pullout up to the panic of a final helicopter retreat.
All those kids came back to a hell-hole economy. If you were old enough in 1973 to remember, you would certainly wanna forget, so I won’t replay.
Suffice it to say that our returning Nam troops got government jobs where they could, or worked for some uncle or family business, or ended up in the Veteran’s Hospital, and then the street.
Fortunately, BushCo has passed enough hog trough in the Energy Bill and Highway Bill to absorb our returning troops again, those who can hack it.
But with the war effectively stymied, unless BushCo can find some conflict-de-jour by next October’s refunding request, our GDP is going to tank, and with it, our stock market, and with it, any hope for jobs for graduating high schoolers and college kids, for at least half a decade.
The entire ‘run-up’ in the US economy and stock market since mid-2003 is due entirely to deficit spending on this made-for-TV war. Subtract GWII from GDP, and we have been trending to flatline ever since BushCo first got elected.
If you’ve climbed the telegraph pole and listened to the voices on the wind, then better damn well secure your assets, and cut your expenses and hold onto your job, because there’s no pensions anymore, no retirement medical, no living wage entry, and no leg-up with this inflation.
In 1973, gasoline sold for 25c a gallon, and a good used car sold for $250, and food, rent and utilities ran around $500, tops.
Today, well, do the math.

Posted by: Terry Zahrn | Jul 31 2005 4:45 utc | 9

Khalid Jarrar’s story – the Iraqi blogger picked up by the C.I.A. controlled secret police in Iraq on life and interrogations in ‘New iraq’

Posted by: Nugget | Jul 31 2005 5:15 utc | 11

Moon of Alabama…what a compelling title…so I read or tried to do so. My comprehension was nil….Ya’ll be mad at everbody and ever thang… brecht clearly could not write the blues….not a teutonic knack….!the blues are soft and languid….even when they are jangly.The blues laughing at themselves, not accusing all others. The blues are too blue to get every last pair of knickers they own in a wad …….yall all beez mad….I must have whiskey to read this ….you know why!

Posted by: Lyn Van Atta | Jul 31 2005 9:54 utc | 13

on the uzbekistan karshi-khanabad (k2/camp stronghold freedom) base, interesting quote from the bbc article that debs is dead linked to:

The Uzbek government requested in its letter that the US terminate all its operations in Uzbekistan, Pentagon spokesman Glenn Flood said.
He said he did not know why the request had been made and the US state department was assessing the note.

wayne madsen writes:

…relations between Washington and Tashkent finally boiled over after evidence that Pentagon special operations teams were involved in the Islamist revolt against President Islam Karimov’s government in the town of Andijan on May 17.
…
The Uzbek media has been abuzz with revelations that Pentagon special operations teams secretly met in Afghanistan with Tohir Yoldashev and members of his Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), a group the U.S. State Department considers a terrorist organization allied to “Al Qaeda.” The meetings were reported to have occurred before and after the Andijan revolt, which was blamed on IMU forces.
…
The Uzbek government obviously believes the Pentagon has been dealing with terrorist groups and decided to deny the Americans a base from which they might be using to foment Islamist terrorist operations in Uzbekistan and in surrounding countries.

this would make the 2002 the us-uzbekistan declaration of strategic partnership meaningless wrt security agreements:

The U.S. affirms that it would regard with
grave concern any external threat to the security and territorial integrity of the Republic of Uzbekistan.

dana priest reported in her book the mission that the cia first got involved in uzbekistan in 1999 when it believed that the founder of the imu, juma namangani, a top lieutenant of ubl’s, was attempting to assasinate karimov. namangani’s sister was/is(?) one of ubl’s wives.

To help the Uzbeks find Namangani, the CIA has given the NSS (Karimov’s National Security Service) satellite radios and listening devices. But the Uzbeks were still having trouble intercepting the IMU’s calls. When they did, the defense forces and the NSS couldn’t coordinate fast enough to catch anyone.

darn the luck. meanwhile,

..Karimov allowed the CIA to launch picture-snapping Predator unmanned aircraft and other elements of a bin Laden surveillance program from his country. The agency also cultivated contacts with close to a dozen anti-Taliban warlords, some living in Uzbekistan, whom they hoped would one day go after the Taliban just across the border.

two years later, these warlords, including the “ferocious” general abdurrashid dostum, would comprise the northern alliance in carrying through with the u.s. regime change directed against the taliban in afghanistan in an invasion launched from k2 & uzbekistan. the setup had been underway for some time. in her book, priest says that the u.s. army special forces had actually arrived in uzbekistan in 1997 setting up training camps focused on “field tactics, airborne assault operations, and counterinsurgency training.”
so now it appears that karimov is worried that his largest ally is now working w/ the imu to exact a little regime change at home. maybe the human rights atrocities are too much of a liability for this softer, gentler struggle against violent extremists. after all, it’s hard to defend someone who reputed to boil their enemies.
or the real reason could be related to disputes about profits from the opium trade now that the wars are finished. (see the real story)
or they could all be related… we’ll lean on karimov by dealing w/ his opposition, blah blah blah

Posted by: b real | Aug 1 2005 3:25 utc | 15

Bravo! Bolton as US-ambassador to the UN!
Spaceship United States has completely lost contact with the world.

Posted by: teuton | Aug 1 2005 15:52 utc | 17

I should add to your list of endtimes indicators Clueless.
Apparently Time published something big on the Plame affair on Sunday and Madsen has picked up on it. Evidence is now coming out that Bushco has been central in a smuggling scheme to supply Iran with means to build nukes. An excuse fr invasion you know. Weapons dealer Khan of Pakistan is intimately involved.
The CIA group to which Plame was attached apparently was becoming too familiar with the details, and so, had to be kneecapped. By the boss.
Shit the guy has never done anything right has he.
This would explain the recent moves to emasculate Fitz, who has the whole story certainly, and all the evidence to indict admin higher-ups for treason.
Go to Wayne Madsen’s site for more. Scroll down to an “updated” July 31 entry.
BTW I can’t help but surmise that hastily stuffing Bolton into the UN is another desperate bit of attempted damage control. Reminds me of “Damn the torpedos – full speed ahead!”

Posted by: rapt | Aug 1 2005 23:09 utc | 19