Naturally, as if all this wasn’t bad enough, many of the "reforms" now being rammed through our Chamber of People’s Deputies would make the law worse.
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July 22, 2005
WB: Kissing the 4th Amendment Goodbye
Comments
Over the years I’ve read hundreds, perhaps more,of books and journals in libraries without checking them out. The library provision is just another “feel good” law without practical consequences.
Posted by: Brian Boru | Jul 22 2005 5:34 utc | 1
In New Security Move, New York Police to Search Commuters’ Bags
Posted by: correlator | Jul 22 2005 5:50 utc | 2
What can anyone say it’s all so goddam predictable. Mind you if I were a Brit I reckon I would get annoyed about the LeopoldCo use of a British tragedy to justify further repression of US citizens.
These guys have no shame and badly need to be called on that.
I’ve always felt that these lowlifes would have a much tougher job convincing the rest of us of the neccessity of these draconian inroads into our freedom if their only reason was to protect themselves.
One could easily come to the conclusion that all sides in modern conflict war by proxy, using the rest of us as their cannon fodder because there is an unwritten gentlemen’s agreement to do so. Lets face it secret service or not Chimpee couldn’t be 100% protected from a determined group of people that had been sufficently resourced to undertake a complex assasination. How long would the war in Iraq or the decimation of Palestine last if the US president knew that failure to address these issues fairly would certainly result in his death? Similarly would it really have been that difficult to take out Bin Laden? I’m sure a message could have been sent via back channels (dad to dad for eg) that Osama’s death would cause Dubya’s demise.
Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 22 2005 6:04 utc | 3
Actually, the library thing is somewhat overstated. Librarians hate this kind of thing, so almost immediately after the PATRIOT Act was put into effect, most small libraries changed their computer systems so that they no longer keep records of previous checkouts. All the FBI (or whoever) can see is what you currently have checked out, not what you’ve checked out in the past.
Note that not all libraries do this: ask your local librarian to find out what they’re doing there. Also ask if they use these nice signs.
Posted by: Blind Misery | Jul 22 2005 7:04 utc | 4
when my child was 12 in order for the state to collect my child support from his dad they were required to collect my sons dna. this really gave me the creeps. why should my sons dna be in some database for futher use? who knows what will be happening in 30 years. his dad and i both protested and had to fill out paperwork and go thru red tape to avoid this. the medical info they(potentially could) collect all goes into some file along w/insurance that can effect whether or not you may or may not get hired for certain jobs based on whether a company will want to take the risk covering your future health costs based on the medical history of not only you but your family.
just one little aspect of big brother that came to mind kissing those rights away. all those children whose parents have turned over their childrens dna to the state, don’t they think of this stuff?
Posted by: annie | Jul 22 2005 7:53 utc | 5
Thanks for pointing out and updating on specifically the provision that meant a person could not even consult with a lawyer.
This part, even for a layman like me, simply AMAZES me and I know from experience that most US citizens don’t know about this provision.
But just a few seconds thought tells you…you have absolutely NO way then to check if the order someone agent is giving you is even LEGAL! It’s not like there has never been abuse of power in law enforcement agencies.
Another Alice-in-wonderland, catch-22 (to the 10th power) is this ridiculous scenario…you are told to comply, you “think” what they are asking for is illegal, you consult your attorney, they bust you for breaking the law by talking with “any persons” about this.
Unless you are to break the same law again, what happens when they bring you up on charges? Are you allowed to have a lawyer THEN? If so, can you talk about your defense with that lawyer? If so, HOW? without breaking the same law again? In fact, it is worded so badly, you wouldn’t be able to talk with the FBI, a lawyer, the JUDGE, about your case without violating it.
Our lawmakers have voted on this without reading it, they have drafted a TERRIBLY ambiguous document that seemingly has the leeway to be turned into anything anyone wants…it is a black-box law. A golden ticket for oppression.
On top of which just yesterday a teen was convicted under “terrorism” articles, for threatening to kill some of his classmates (a crime of course…but terror?) so this is not just to get the “enemies of the US” in the terror war, they already are using terror to convict non-political criminals.
Posted by: Tom Joad | Jul 22 2005 9:13 utc | 6
First things first, if I may. The Patriot Act has NOT yet been reauthorized. Only the House version (3199) has been passed.
The House version does not offer adequate protections against Section 215, the problems of which Billmon did a great job in his article Kissing the 4th Admendment Goodbye. (I also have in PDF (130 kb) a fact sheet–Health, Finance, Guns, Religion and Library).
If you are an American citizen, entirely innocent of any criminal activity or association with terrorism, the Patriot Act still applies to you. Indeed, under Section 215, the FBI
- does NOT have to show probable cause, or even reasonable grounds to believe, that you were involved in criminal activities;
- does NOT even need suspicion that you are an agent of a foriegn power or associate with members of a terrorist organization.
Yet the FBI can obtain not only your “business records” (which legally may include “medical records, psychiatric or psychological therapy records, education records, genetic records, insurance records, travel records” and more), but also “any tangible things” related to you.
No warrant. No probable cause required. Let me say that again: no warrant or probable cause required.
As for token library and bookstore protections offered by House version? The FBI can obtain eveything else–without a warrant or probable cause. Not exactly checks and balances in action.
Hence why many Americans–politically left, right and center–wonder if we’re kissing the 4th Admendment goodbye. I never thought I’d stand back-to-back with Bob Barr, but on this we’re brothers in arms. The Patriot Act as it exists in H.R. 3199 does that by–among other things–hollowing out the Fourth Amendment.
Please don’t give up the fight now. We’re in the final hours and an all-out effort is needed. Just take a few moments to contact your Senators.
I remember clearly all the rallying cries re the former ‘Evil Empire’, the Former Soviet Union … we were free, we had the constitution, the bill of rights … they, the poor oppressed Soviet citizens, lived under an intrusive secret police, the KGB, which was effectively above the courts, above the law, serving the authoritarian state … how gut-renchingly ironic that the ‘peace dividend’ we’ve recieved in winning the Cold War is in part to earn our own version of the domestic police/intelligence state … FBI&Co = KGB … 🙁
Freedom & Liberty, heh ?!
Posted by: Outraged | Jul 22 2005 13:11 utc | 8
Ah, the patriot act. Such a huge document, running into th ehundreds and hundreds of pages, dealing with the sensitive topic of personal liberty in such exquisite detail, passed in a flurry of national fervor, without a second’s thought to “how did they manage to put it all together, in such short time?”
There’s the true mystery of it all,.
It does somehow remind me of the exquisitely detailed Sonderlage für Juden that just happened to be handily available after the Reichstag fire. I agree with the patriotically inclined Republicans, that law abiding citizens have nothing to fear, its only the terrorists that should tremble and quake.
Yet I also remember spokesmen of the GOP wanting to widen the definition of terrorists to include homosexual couples and protesters at anti-G8 gatherings.
Time to duck and weave, I think.
Posted by: SteinL | Jul 22 2005 13:25 utc | 9
You’ve got to duck and weave anyway. Basketball size hailstones, bombs, whatever.
Posted by: jm | Jul 22 2005 13:32 utc | 10
Stein L: I’ve got a bit of that here regarding Rick Santorum.
The Patriot Act as it now stands is just too powerful a tool readily turned to political abuse.
The oversight–the checks and balances–just are not there. Please call or email your Senators, to start. It’s not over yet.
I am calling my senators and asking them to protect us from the real danger and the real terrorist state – Texas.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 22 2005 14:40 utc | 12
“Either we do it, or we will be crushed.” says the freedom fightin’ Congress as they dismantle the American Revolution.
How very 1920s.
Russian, though.
Posted by: citizen | Jul 22 2005 17:11 utc | 13
So, if we’re on the same glide path of citizen disillusionment and concomitantly rising “iron fisting”, the famines should be starting sometime between 2009 and 2013, no?
It’s always the famines that finish off those fading reputations.
Posted by: citizen | Jul 22 2005 17:21 utc | 14
I am not saying that I absolutely think that the London attacks were a little drummer girl, but what I find really amazing is that when the Patriot Act was under consideration initially, Brokaw and Leahy and Daschle (but no right wingers) were subject to the anthrax scare psy ops (in addition to non-political people who were “collateral damage.”)
There is basically no doubt that it was an American-affiliated scientist who did this, and yet, at the time, the neocons tried to blame it on Iraq.
And the patriot act passed w/o a full reading.
Now, there are a series of terrorist attacks in London, one in Eqypt, at the time the Act is up for Renewal. If the Act passes and the terror attacks stop…and you know, once Bush got his second term, terrorism was put on the backburner anyway (or at least he tried to do that) to pass his domestic rape of the economy…but now that his numbers are so low, now that his administration is in trouble, now that the passage of this bill has come about, terrorists are able to strike.
I really try not to wear a tinfoil hat, but the coincidences that have occurred during Bush’s time in office are pretty unsettling.
And the attempts to put overriding power into the hands of the executive branch just makes the above lettre de caché provisions sound absolutely like a divine right of King George.
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 23 2005 3:16 utc | 15