If there are strands of evidence that tend to walk the responsibility for the production and/or disseminaton of those forged documents back to this side of the Atlantic, and if any of those strands lead towards the U.S. government, or “an internal working group dealing with Iraq” . . . well, Rove (and others) might find that perjury charges are the least of their worries.
Back to Main
July 3, 2005
WB: Have Another Slice of Yellowcake, Karl
Comments
Everyone always says that the big fish never fry. This may be true in our country’s short history, but we’ve never had an Administration as damaging to the country’s survival as we’ve had in BushCo. Perhaps it’s time for the U.S. to undergo a true cleansing, from the top down.
Or, perhaps I’m a hopeless dreamer and this is just another diversion from impending $100-a-barrel oil and the resulting economic meltdown — not to mention a SCOTUS soon to be stacked with neo-fascists for the foreseeable future.
In terms of Fitzgerald’s investigation, all we can do is wait and see.
Posted by: Michael Hawkins | Jul 3 2005 17:09 utc | 1
So bloody labyrinthine, comparable to Iran-Contra with the pullulating subplots of conspiracy. A mole in every cupboard. I suppose it’s possible, as Marshall diligently reports, some ur-event of wrongdoing which pushed the chain of conspiracies into ad seriatim nuttiness.
Will Soccer Mom follow the complicated perambulations of Fitzgerald et al. through this weird narrative?
Only political class dissatisfaction w/ the War
will bring Bush down, as was the case for Nixon btw. And look where the Dem leadership is with all that.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 3 2005 17:14 utc | 2
Michael says time will tell and slothrop asks if Soccer Mom will get it….
This is why it is important, now, not to go for the big bang.
It’s time to dole it out, bit by bit, day after day, week after week, such that a plotline develops and all that fertilizer that is going to be released can be spread around such that it is kept to a thin film that doesn’t obscure the bigger truth.
And I’m not talking about the MSM here. I’m talking about the big players in the Bloggodome.
Day by day, bit by bit. Forget about us. We’re already on side.
Get the Soccer Moms.
And there’s such unlikelihood of Dem success in next year’s generals. I don’t know. I share my comrades’ pessimism this goes anywhere. But, hey, a little guarded fantasies about the Fall of the House of Bush is good thing on a beautiful Sunday.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 3 2005 17:22 utc | 5
And there’s such unlikelihood of Dem success in next year’s generals. I don’t know. I share my comrades’ pessimism this goes anywhere. But, hey, a few little guarded fantasies about the Fall of the House of Bush is good thing on a beautiful Sunday.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 3 2005 17:22 utc | 6
slothrop–
Not sure I am entirely as pessimistic.
After all, don’t forget that Mr. Zogby’s 42% is already out there.
“In a sign of the continuing partisan division of the nation, more than two-in-five (42%) voters say that, if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should hold him accountable through impeachment.”
And that’s 42% of everybody, before the Soccer Moms.
Off my blog this morning:
It’s not like I’m sounding the alarm or anything, given that roughly five people read this blog. But at least for the sake of future “I told you so”s, let me tell you so right now:
We’re being handled again.
The Republicans, apparently, are just smarter than we are.
Since yesterday I’ve been wondering what the conservative response to the new implication of Rove in the Valerie Plame non-scandal is going to be. Now it’s starting to take shape , and just like that, I realize what’s going on: this is all misdirection.
As we saw before with Bush’s National Guard transcript, the White House and Rove are insulating themselves from a potentially damaging truth by leaking it in what will turn out to be an inaccurate, unverifiable, and ultimately, sufficiently disprovable manner to keep their base happy and make the mainstream media, once more, look bad and lapse back into fearful silence.
Right now, it’s just a minor White House flack denying Rove’s involvement. The next step is for the mainstream media to jump at the bait. Deep cover conservative sources will leak enough information to get the high profile journalists excited, and when the story builds to a frenzy, the ‘truth’ will come out… and it will be something like, the emails to the New York Times turn out to have forged ISP numbers on them, and they could not possibly have originated from Karl Rove, and…
That will be that.
The story will instantly die, just like Shrub’s desertion from the National Guard went away. Despite the fact that Shrub did dodge service in Vietnam by being a spoiled brat and having his family pull strings to jump the wait list and get him into the Texas National Guard, and he was SO spoiled he couldn’t even be bothered to serve his last 18 months there, when it turned out that a document stating all those truths had been carefully forged, the story was utterly defenestrated, and the mainstream media lapsed into a coma. Now that the mainstream media is starting to grow a few teeth back, well, we have this… a brand new conservative sting operation, which I’m sure is going to turn out exactly the same way. In the end, despite the fact that of course the Plame leak originated with Rove, some no doubt deliberately embedded flaw in the document trail will prove irrefutably that the whole thing is a ‘a fraud’… which will not only provide Rove’s White House with all the credibility insulation they’ll ever need on the subject, but it will also bitch slap the mainstream media back into their holes for the remainder of this Shrub Administration.
Mission accomplished, indeed.
We’re just too eager. We know the fuckers are corrupt, evil scofflaws, of course, and we can’t believe that idiots like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh willfully refuse to see it. So we jump all over this crap. Whenever there is the slightest hint of a crack in the wall, whenever it looks like we might get the opportunity to gear up on Shrub and Cheney with our very own Watergate bat, we drop to all fours and sprint panting up to the plate.
And Rove knows that. He’s like Lucy with that football, and we’re Charlie Brown, and we fall for it every time.
Again, me typing this all out and posting it here won’t do any good, since hardly anyone reads this. But at least I’ll be able to smile cynically as I witness the final death of the free press a few weeks or so in the future.
Posted by: Highlander | Jul 3 2005 18:26 utc | 8
But the real question has to be: “Who leaked the name to Karl Rove?” If that person was John Bolton, as Digby suggested, that needs investigation too.
Posted by: Texas Hoss | Jul 3 2005 18:27 utc | 9
It’s not so much the Soccer Moms I worry about as the Nascar watchin’-Toby Keith listenin’- Bud drinkin’ dads.
Posted by: blue | Jul 3 2005 18:29 utc | 10
That’s why we need the “Toby Keith Freedom Act”.
“Duly authorized recruiting agents of the US Military are hereby required to and authorized to stop vehicles that have a “Support the Troops” bumpersticker and enroll all non-paraplegic occupants in the US Army as front line infantry soldiers for a period ending when the US occupation of Iraq terminates. Furthermore, any strong expressions of support for the war in Iraq will be considered legally binding agreement to enter the US Armed Forces and recruiting agencies are permitted to enter letter to the editor, emails, or any other verified expression of such support as proof that the author has enlisted.
Posted by: citizen k | Jul 3 2005 18:56 utc | 11
people in wheelchairs can at least have the decency to offer themselves as IED sweepers. sacrifices are needed from everyone.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 3 2005 18:58 utc | 12
The rush by our daring media to publish something/anything regarding Rove is impressive.
Since most of the public record big journos already knew about the story, surely, preparing a breaking news commodity would have been already accomplished by a heads-up editor?
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 3 2005 19:07 utc | 13
I don’t think the real question is who leaked Plame to Karl Rove. The point we should be pushing is — isn’t it corrupt that Rove pushing this story at all? Why wasn’t the White House brain trust working on trying to make our country safer? Why should we have any respect for someone who did the dishonorable thing of spending time–taxpayers’ dollars–calling up journalists to push the outing of Valerie Plame, just because her husband risked his life and told turht the happened to prove the President lied in his State of the Union address?
The point is, like Nixon’s, Bush’s White House is working to smear whomever gets in their way. They feel no need to respect laws or decency, and clearly they will mis-direct and prevaricate to achieve thier ends.
Posted by: Beth C. | Jul 3 2005 20:19 utc | 14
sorry for the typos, must remember, preview…preview…preview…
Posted by: Beth C. | Jul 3 2005 20:21 utc | 15
We’re just too eager. We know the fuckers are corrupt, evil scofflaws, of course, and we can’t believe that idiots like Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh willfully refuse to see it. So we jump all over this crap. Whenever there is the slightest hint of a crack in the wall, whenever it looks like we might get the opportunity to gear up on Shrub and Cheney with our very own Watergate bat, we drop to all fours and sprint panting up to the plate.
And Rove knows that. He’s like Lucy with that football, and we’re Charlie Brown, and we fall for it every time.
Yes, but being Eeyore doesn’t help either. I saw the look in Lawrence O’Donell’s eyes when he fingered Rove. He had the “fuck it, I’m tired of this shit and I’m stepping on the gas” look.
We owe it to him to twhack this one around for awhile.
Sloth-man: Good point. I originally was going to put “able bodied”, but no reason a 300lb wheezer can’t do sentry duty or drive a truck. Freedom ain’t free and consiering the bad effects of all them liberal doubters out there, it’s time for ALL patriots to pitch in.
Posted by: citizen k | Jul 3 2005 21:00 utc | 18
Hey, nobody hopes to be wrong more about this than me.
On the other hand, suppose it really IS Rove, and it can be pinned on him. At this point, the White House could credibly say, “Yeah, Karl leaked it, and yeah, I suppose it’s illegal, technically, but honestly, why do you people hate America so much? Karl is a red blooded Republican patriot and indispensable to the war on terror.” After all, Republicans control everything… Congress, the White House, the courts… so Rove did it. So what. Big deal. The Shrub hangs a medal on him in the Rose Garden under another MISSION ACCOMPLISHED sign and we move on.
Conservatives were utterly baffled when Clinton’s Presidency survived Blowjobgate. They were absolutely outraged that no one but them was outraged, and they simply could not understand why Bill wasn’t hounded out of the office by a bi-partisan lynch mob.
Similarly, we’re all gearing up because it looks like we finally got the goods on someone high up in the Shrub Administration. But here’s the thing: Administrations can get away with any sort of scandal as long as it’s the RIGHT KIND of scandal. If Clinton’s Chief of Staff had outed a CIA agent, or if Clinton had led the country into war under false pretenses, or if Clinton had been connected to a lot of fairly provable stock market manipulation on the behalf of his major political contributors, he would have been impeached or at least defeated in the next election, because his base — Democrats and liberals — care about policy stuff like that.
Conservatives, on the other hand, don’t have the attention span for high crimes. They are only concerned with misdemeanors, and when I say misdemeanors, I mean, sex. The Bush Administration is going to have to get caught putting the wood to someone or something they ain’t supposed to. Until then, they’re fine; the only people who hate them have been hating them all along, and they’ve been riding that out for five years now.
Worse, anyone who can imagine anyone in the Bush Administration sticking their misters anywhere they aren’t supposed to is more creative than I am. These guys simply aren’t going to unzip it for us. And until they do, we’re stuck with them, because their base won’t bolt for anything else.
Posted by: Highlander | Jul 3 2005 22:28 utc | 19
I may be one of the five that go your way Higlander, I’ll see your bet and raise you one, see Beth C’s comment in that:The point is, like Nixon’s, Bush’s White House is working to smear whomever gets in their way. They feel no need to respect laws or decency, and clearly they will mis-direct and prevaricate to achieve thier ends.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 3 2005 23:37 utc | 20
Starr is a panty sniffing dilletante. Fitzgerald is a real and effective prosecutor. Rove and Co. can play all the media games they want. Fitzgerald doesn’t give a shit. He will methodically put together his cases. If they indict you can be sure they will get convictions. His office has been hammering away and convicting the crooks on both sides of the aisle in Illinois. He isn’t in it to run for higher office or for future considerations. He is a true believer. Someone will need to jump under the bus to staunch the flow. It will be interesting to see if Rove has the stones to take one for the boss.
Posted by: Grin | Jul 4 2005 0:14 utc | 21
Highlander- my contention is that people like GHW Bush’s doc is writing about how Bush Jr. has changed America into something most Americans wouldn’t recognize as their nation with torture and with doctors assisting in that torture.
Paul Craig Roberts, rgiap’s favorite Reagan conservative, has regularly written about how awful this administration is.
The Iraq war did not get the oil flowing, and it won’t because a guerilla campaign can go on and on and on…interrupting an oil pipeline is easier than taking a city.
Traditional conservatives are not happy with the deficit, which is definitely fueled by the Mess-o-potomac-potamia. Traditional conservatives did not want to stop paving roads, for instance, (Eisenhower started the interstate construction project), in order to make govt small enough to drown in a bathtub. You know, that remark in itself sounds like the words of a truly disturbed person…when you think of someone small enough to drown in a bathtub, Norquist seems to be advocating killing a child…and in truth, if he has his way, no doubt many children will suffer horribly.
Traditional conservatives do not want televangelists telling them how many martinis they can drink, or passing laws to punish them with death if they sleep with their secretaries.
If I were the military, I would be so pissed at the executive branch, I would seriously wander if that branch of govt itself was not a threat to the constitution.
As far as Wilson, which Noisette mentioned on another thread…remember, he also worked in Iraq during GHWB’s term and was lauded by Bush as a hero during that time. He wasn’t Clinton’s appointee.
But, yes, it’s also possible that he was working with intel. officers that resigned or were let go who did not toe the Bush line…the guy who worked for Kerry…what’s his name…he’s not exactly pure as the driven snow, but the Bush administration has basically declared war on every part of this country, imo.
The fact of life right now is that the U.S. can choose to bankrupt itself trying to coerce oil from other nations, or we can use our own resources (our own citizens) to move into the future and deal with real problems like oil depletion and global warming and overconsumption.
This is where I think Bush so drastically missed the boat, hell, the whole shoreline, after 9-11. He could have led the country into another way of doing things, in the same way that people grew victory gardens and worked to create a nation as an organism to fight fascism…not simply with war, but also with the natural resource of people willing to help one another in a crisis.
That would have been real leadership for this nation. Instead we have the oil-i-garchy, so reminiscent of the gilded age, who have suffer from consumption…and, truth to tell, I think they were scared shitless…remember what a joke Bush was before 9-11? well, everything did not change on that day…Bush was still a joke, although a sicker one.
btw, when I read Billmon’s post, and the entry above, I can hear Bush’s voice in my head with the line, “seeking to buy uranium….(pause for effect)…from Africa.” (dun, dun, dun…three notes down the scale…this is the part where you get scared…)
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 4 2005 0:30 utc | 22
Bush didn’t drastically miss the boat. Remember, he does what they tell him to do. You say he missed the boat as if he is too stupid to know how to catch it; maybe he is, but the point is that somebody else is calling the shots here. Whatever boat it was, that entity intended to miss it.
Fauxreal, do you believe that 9/11 was a surprise to these people? It was part of the plan, so whatever bush did after the WTC attacks was part of the plan too. He didn’t miss anything.
Posted by: rapt | Jul 4 2005 1:04 utc | 23
“After all, Republicans control everything… Congress, the White House, the courts… so Rove did it.”
They don’t control all the prosecutors or the grand juries — yet.
Posted by: Billmon | Jul 4 2005 2:37 utc | 24
rapt- I don’t know if 9-11 was known or not…I have my thoughts about it, but I’m really old-fashioned, I guess, or naive and I tend to like to something beyond theory…although I recognize that circumstantial evidence is also considered sufficient in some cases.
however, there are so many unknowns that I cannot say that, yes, they absolutely knew it was going to happen and let it happen, or yes, they conspired to bring this about starting in 1999…although I can believe both of those based upon things that I am aware of.
If they were directly involved, they have also, no doubt, been involved in disinformation to cause people like me to hold back, and to cause people who don’t follow these things at all to think such an idea is absurd.
Whether they let it happen, made it happen, or were incompetent…that question is important, but there are other, proven reasons to bring them to impeach and try them for crimes…starting with the 2000 election. I tend to believe the 02 and 04 elections were also rigged, but I’m not sure…however, I do know they violated people’s right to vote, and that’s enough to bitch slap them back to Texas.
I know they intended to invade Iraq before 9-11, and were divving up the oilfields via Cheney’s energy policy task force. I know they lied to bring about the invasion, again, that’s enough to run them out of Washington in tar and feathers.
I know they approved torture of people who were innocent…violating innocent until proven guilty, due process, illegal search and seizure…they violated the Geneva Conventions, the Nuremberg Conventions…those things are enough for them to spend the rest of their lives in jail.
They serve as in loco parentis for America’s soldiers. They serve as the representatives of this country to the whole world. How can they not be held accountable for these things? How can they not be removed from office for incompetence?
I also think that the murders of the three Ks, in the 60s, were not random incidents…but I also know that as humans we evolved to find the patterns in our world…even if they don’t exist.
My “problem” is that I always find a question more readily than I ever find an answer.
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 4 2005 2:52 utc | 25
…my other problem is that I am typing like I’m drunk, but I’m not. however, I did spend the day at a lake and swam with the fishes in a good way, and watched for the deer that are everywhere around here now (overpopulation combined with the loss of habitate to McMansions)
So, hopefully people here can understand why I wrote even when I shifted from one tense to another or didn’t agree in verb/subject or left out words or added ones and then, when I saw what I wrote said, “Where the hell did that come from?”
Okay, continue with your regularly scheduled discussion.
If anyone wants to join me in a campfire sing along of “It’s the End of the World As We Know It,” I’ll break out the somemores.
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 4 2005 3:01 utc | 26
i’ll sing w/you fauxreal. speaking of singing, and drinking, last night while attending a kareoke session at a divebar in twisp(yes there is a town) i had the pleasure of witnessing ,a cowboy sing bohemian rapsody. i really have to get out more often. not telling what i sang…i was pretty far gone.
Posted by: annie | Jul 4 2005 4:49 utc | 27
@ Fauxreal
Thanks for a nice summing up of the epistemological aspects of the situation. I agree that we are mostly
in the realm of circumstantial evidence, and that one
has to avoid the tendency to find patterns “a posteriori”.
Yet I have long since ceased to believe official explanations (coincidence theories), which seem less plausible than alternative conspiracy theories. In the
recent past the U.S. government has frequently promulgated monstrous lies, and it’s difficult to believe the same isn’t happening right now.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jul 4 2005 7:46 utc | 28
HKO’L- I don’t believe official explanations either, I just don’t know which suppressed explanation comes closer to some idea of truth. However, I have no doubt that my govt and the history that we learn and then have to unlearn is based upon many, many lies.
annie- would have really liked to have seen that cowboy singing bohemian rhapsody. 🙂
I have a three drink minimum before any karaoke is possible from me. I usually pick something easy, like The Tide Is High, but have seen a majestic version of Rock Lobster from two actresses and a guy who wears a fur-trimmed coat and rhinestone-studded Joan Crawford glasses.
for anyone interested, Democracy Now! has Howard Zinn leading a series of readings from American history. Just saw Kurt Vonnegut reading as Mark Twain. Now Alfre Woodard is reading from a woman trying to register to vote for the first time in Mississippi.
I’ve avoided public 4ths since 2000 when I carried a copy of Greg Palast’s The Best Democracy Money Can Buy to hold up whenever a group of Republicans passed by. The crowd wanted me to disappear so they could enjoy their parade…that’s when I knew that, for Americans, democracy officially a simulacrum.
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 4 2005 16:59 utc | 29