So what legalistic defense is Luskin going to hide behind?
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July 13, 2005
WB: A Liar By Any Other Name (+)
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Jay Inslee on C-Span today said it’s not an excuse to say Rove didn’t know she was an undercover operative. Anyone in his position who is going around throwing the identities of CIA agents around has a responsibility to the national security of this country to make damn sure they are not outing covert agents. It’s his job to find out if she was a covert agent, or not!
Posted by: Gabby | Jul 13 2005 21:11 utc | 1
Bush’s entire political career has been built on the persona that he’s a cowboy.
Cowboys are about truth and justice. No nonsense. They get the bad guys and they string em up. Even if the bad guy happens to be their friend.
This lying and parsing by Rove and his lawyer (not to mention the rightwing blog/tv/radio/WSJ editorial page gaggle) is completely undermining that cowboy image.
I am watching the press briefing with beam me up Scotty Mc and David Gregory hammered the hell out of him again and basically said this is not going away in a very threatening way as in ‘I’m going to dog your sorry fucking ass every fucking day no matter what you say asshole.’ I think the press is ready to dog these guys bad.
As said above, a reporter said it was no excuse not knowing someone was an undercover agent. Scotty had the wind taken out of his sails right away and he’s had his tail between his legs the whole way. He even made the statement that he’s had some of hiney taken off in the last couple days. He’s feeling sorry for himself.
I say tie him to the yard iron, whip him, and then make him walk the plank.
Posted by: jdp | Jul 13 2005 21:48 utc | 3
A lobotomized cowboy riding a stick pony round the oval office. HeeHaa
Posted by: folgers | Jul 13 2005 21:49 utc | 4
These guys must lack the requisite DNA that codes for mea culpas. Bush can’t admit he’s wrong. Same with Cheney and we should not forget Judity “I was proved fucking right” Miller. It looks like Rove is a product of that mitochondrial DNA.
As I am sure Sun Tzu says some where that ones greatest attacking strength is also their greatest weakness. Maybe not. In any event, can we call this the “last throes” of the Cheney Administration?
Posted by: Bubb Rubb | Jul 13 2005 22:15 utc | 5
Here’s a Bush cowboy pic I’d like to see or how about Supporting the Troops, but not so Behind the mask of betrayal, Iraq veterans coming home from war, Oregon 2005, all from GI Special
Posted by: Outraged | Jul 13 2005 22:20 utc | 6
For God’s sake, don’t call this the last throes of the Cheney administration! By Rumsfeld’s reckoning, that would mean we’re stuck with them for another 12 years.
Posted by: ralphbon | Jul 13 2005 22:29 utc | 7
alabama has been very consistent here in relation to this affair & nothing would please me more to watch this hideous excuse for a man – karl rove – walk the plank – i am naïve enough to want to believe that it is still possible at this late stage
then you take account of the depth o their criminality. the expansiveness of their depravity. the considerable & it would appear from here permanant damage to both the legislative & judicial appareil; even the repressive state apparatus has taken considerable blows to both their authenticity & authority. to the rest of the world the armed force of the united states is a sad joke with people’s lives as the sad evidence of its incredible ineptness. & it is nothing if not inept. at a tactical level, certainly at the strategic level & its global positioning outside of the use of weapons of mass destruction – a sad excuse of an empire – & all this done in not much more than 4 years
saying this is saying that the stakes are too high far too high to permit even the castigation of rove – unfortunately like every other scandal – ones that are reproduced day in & day out – it will pass – & the crimianls will remain
the real force or the real complicity lies with the people as it always has. if the american people do not make firm & just & courageous decisions they will defending nothing but ash & shadows
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 13 2005 23:14 utc | 8
The moneyed elites are getting nervous about the Cheney-Rove Administration.
Those fuckbrains will get the public so outraged that simply running the bastards out won’t be enough.
The peasants will want their country back, too.
Can’t have that.
Is that Kerry feller still above ground? Is he stil hungry?
Posted by: Antifa | Jul 13 2005 23:44 utc | 9
Is the facade really beginning to crack? I’m still not holding my breath. As the previous post suggests, maybe the monied elites are getting fed up. That could turn the tide, cause the bovine american masses can’t.
Posted by: Ben | Jul 14 2005 0:00 utc | 10
fauxreal, I think we’ve never agreed about the “shoot-out” as I’ve tried to describe it to Malooga, and I think the differences between us are “categorical,” by which I only mean that we disagree on the category awkwardly called an “intra-administration shootout,” with all the conflict and symmetry that this implies. Unless I’m mistaken, you see the administration as a monolith, and you may be absolutely right about this. But I’m going to let the indictments themselves “referee” our different perspectives, and I’ll do so by looking out for the following: (1.) whether any indictments come down in the first place, (2.) whether such as come down have any gravity or scope beyond the level of a misdemeanor, (3.) whether such indictments have a chance of succeeding when brought to trial, and (4.) whether the defendants indicted line up on one side or the other as I’ve tried to describe them. I regard this as a fairly strict set of standards by which to test the hypothesis, and if it’s met, I think I wouldn’t be wrong to invoke it in support of the hypothesis itself.
Posted by: alabama | Jul 14 2005 0:59 utc | 11
That should have gone on the earlier thread called “slime and defend”.
Posted by: alabama | Jul 14 2005 1:00 utc | 12
The peasants will want their country back, too
And what brave democrat will boldly step forward for his proles?
Barack’s blog…oh my. no help there, unless you wind up in Walter Reed, the honest senator will stop by to say thanks.
Hillary supports our troops. Right on on. Good for all proles.
Maybe, after Antique Road Show ends, PBS will tell me WTF is up in Iraq.
Hope is the refuge of the defeated.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 1:07 utc | 13
The peasants will want their country back, too
And what brave democrat will boldly step forward for his proles?
Barack’s blog…oh my. no help there, unless you wind up in Walter Reed, the honest senator will stop by to say thanks.
Hillary supports our troops. Right on on. Good for all proles.
Maybe, after Antique Road Show ends, PBS will tell me WTF is up in Iraq.
Hope is the refuge of the defeated.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 1:08 utc | 14
Wait, it’s coming to me…
The ONLY action consistent with this Administration’s MO to date is –
Rove for SCOTUS!
Alice thought the whole thing very absurd, but they all looked so grave that she did not dare to laugh.
Posted by: PeeDee | Jul 14 2005 1:15 utc | 15
Did you know a small cracked bowl from 17th century poland is worth $80,000? Did you? price=beauty.
you don’t have to watch Antiques Road Show all the way through to understand the idea of America is no longer worth defending.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 1:15 utc | 16
Jay Insleea popular congessperson here in wash state is circulating this petition.
President Bush has repeatedly promised to hold accountable those who leaked the identity of CIA operative, Valerie Plame. Join us in letting President Bush know that leaking this information is serious and that he should keep his promise to hold his staff accountable for their actions. Please sign the letter
Posted by: annie | Jul 14 2005 1:42 utc | 17
@Slothrop:
Maybe that was Wencheslas IV’s own true cup when he really got into his cups.
Or maybe the only Polish pope blessed it, saw a sign in the tea leaves in it, whatever.
Antiques are now the overriding evidence of capitalism’s failure.
I was sure you would find something, if you looked hard enough.
Posted by: Groucho | Jul 14 2005 1:46 utc | 18
yeah, alabama, it will be interesting to see how (if) this plays out. from what I remember, you think that Negroponte and Powell are part of a team…does that still hold? You know my take on Negroponte.
My post on the slime thread altered my take a bit to say that I think Powell was a patsy…and he’s as pure as the driven snow at a truck stop. But otherwise, I think they’re all selfishly in pursuit of their own aggrandizement and enrichment…so if that mean they’re a totality, then, uh, yeah. And did they all have the goal to remove Saddam? Apparently yes.
And now, here’s one of the funniest things I’ve read all week–
From Greg Palast:
And thus we have Miller sucking on the steaming sewage pipe of White House lies about Iraq and spitting it out in the pages of The Times as “investigative reporting,” for which The Times has apologized. Likewise, we had the embarrassment of Bob Woodward’s special access to the Oval Office after the September 11 attacks when Woodward reported the exclusive news that the President was a flawless commander in chief in the war on terror — for which Woodward has yet to apologize.
While reporting from the Potemkin village of decision-making set up for him at the White House, Woodward missed the real story that, in the words of the Downing Street memo, our leaders were losing track of Osama while they spent their time “fixing the intelligence” on Iraq. Even if Woodward learned of it, would he have reported it at the risk of losing his access to evil?
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 14 2005 1:49 utc | 19
While we’re all studying the entrails of this loasthesome beast the only thing we can be sure about is that whatever happens a/ won’t be predictable by anyone and b/ will leave most of us dissatisfied.
On that cheerful note here’s my take on it. Whatever happens from now is irrelevant. Maybe Rove will get indicted maybe he won’t whichever happens that won’t change the attitude of the phoney tough chickenhawks at LGF et al. We need to accept that right up front. The thinking of the gung-ho lets get your son/daughter to kill the ragheads wont change a bit.
There is however another support base that this mob of chicken necked, zit squeezing parasites on the ass of humanity need even more than the phoney tough blowhards. As BM points out ‘W’ has faced his last election so public opinion isn’t his greatest concern. Stuff still needs to be done though and that requires the other mob.
That is the small minority of crazy braves amongst the repug supporters. Although most of the cheerleaders for murder and mayhem definitely belong in the phoney tough camp, BushCo needs some crazy braves to actually do stuff instead of just talking about it.
How do you reckon outing a covert operative sits with them? Not well I’d say and if I were a halfway decent blogger I would include at least one link to a disappointed crazy brave. The thing is, whenever I go repug hunting I always get waylaid by some over the top off the cuff piece of inhumanity and before I know it I’m in the depths of discourse with a contemptible character, with yet another email addy burned and completely off at a tangent.
Nevertheless these last gasping mainchancers occupying the WH will be out on the bones of their asses very soon, no matter what any of us do or say cause they’ve blown it with the crowd they need the most.
Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 14 2005 2:34 utc | 21
The troll, Ed Rogers:
I don’t think this is a gathering storm. I think this is a dissipating storm.
I don’t think Karl Rove is at the center of this investigation so much as he is at the center of a Washington political frenzy that tends to happen in the summer. This is a summer storm that I think will dissipate over a number of days, not weeks.
…
And like I said, this will dissipate the in days, not weeks.
Now, that’s “on-message.”
It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grammes a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grammes a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it. Parsons swallowed it easily, with the stupidity of an animal.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 2:38 utc | 22
fauxreal, if we sought to trace the conflict of the two parties through the play of allegiances, then we’d notice that Powell placed Negroponte in Baghdad in order to displace Bremer–Bremer being one of the neo-cons that Powell bitterly opposed. And Negroponte did exactly as Powell intended, closing out the neo-cons from American operations in Baghdad. Does this pertain to the “Plame affair” in any way? Indeed i think it does, insofar as the Plame affair can be read as a by-blow of conflicts between neo-cons and their opponents (Powell foremost among these).
Posted by: alabama | Jul 14 2005 2:53 utc | 23
And no, not all members of the administration shared the goal of removing Saddam from office. Many in State and the CIA fought that goal from the outset, and fight against it still, tooth and nail. Powell, by most accounts, lost his job at State for opposing, and continuing to oppose, the removal of Saddam Hussein. The fact that he argued for WMD before the UN doesn’t say, a fortiori, that he favored Saddam’s removal; it may tell us, rather, that he was willing to carry water for his boss (against, as he likes to say, his better judgment). But why would he carry water for his boss? As a way of supporting the goals of the neo-cons? Or as a way of staying in office so as to sabotage those very goals whenever an opportunity to do so presented itself (as happened, for example, with the outing of Valerie Plame)? Now it’s true that, in order to entertain this latter hypothesis, as indeed I currently do, I have to suppose that Powell had the will and means to conduct a fight of this kind; you, who dismiss Powell as a “patsy,” categorically refuse to entertain such an hypothesis, defending, as you do, a monolithic view of the administration in which all are either agreed, or one side alone has the power.
Posted by: alabama | Jul 14 2005 2:54 utc | 24
that he was willing to carry water for his boss (against, as he likes to say, his better judgment).
Powell deserves zero respect in any case.
The orwell thing…I’ts been used in that benjeminian constellation way before. apologies. just rereading the book and was momentarily inspired.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 2:57 utc | 25
Some things done in the course of a career should permanently erase the person’s credibility. Mike Wallace & big tobacco, Billy Graham and his Jew-hating. Powell’s UN lies make everything he’s done in public life a pile of shit.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 3:02 utc | 26
slothrop, I think you’re as wrong as acid rain about that one, but since it doesn’t pertain to the point I’m trying to make, I won’t pursue it further.
Posted by: alabama | Jul 14 2005 3:07 utc | 27
But, let’s face it, Powell has a habit putting himself on the wrong side of history for personal gain.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 3:17 utc | 29
you don’t have to watch Antiques Road Show all the way through to understand the idea of America is no longer worth defending.
I know. But despair gets boring after awhile.
You’ve also given me a great idea for a comedy sketch.
FOUNDING DOCUMENTS ROAD SHOW
Appraiser: And what do have for us today, Uncle Sam?
Uncle Sam: It’s this Constitution I picked up at a colonial garage sale a couple of centuries ago. (He holds it up. Zoom in for a tight shot of “We the People”) It has a lot of sentimental value . . .
Appraiser: Yes, and it’s quite rare, too. But as you can see (points to various rips, tears and smudge marks, particularly on the Bill of Rights) it’s hardly in mint condition.
Uncle Sam: Yes, I know. It’s been through a few wars . . .
Appraiser: (chuckles) We all know how that goes. But you can tell that some pretty important parts don’t work any more. (points to the congressional war powers clause)
Uncle Sam: Gee, I didn’t know that was worth anything.
Appraiser: (laughs) It’s easy to forget. But tell me: What are those crayon marks at the bottom?
Uncle Sam: Well, um, that’s is, I, uh, was fooling around with the thing, and, uh . . .
Appraiser: And?
Uncle Sam: I thought it would look nice with a couple of fresh amendments — you know, to stop the goddamn flag burners and keep the gays from violatin’ the sanctity of holy matrimony.
Appraiser (sighs and shakes his head) We see this all the time. Owners often don’t understand that trying to repair a fragile antique can do more harm than good. So do you have any idea what your Constitution is worth?
Uncle Sam: (nervously) I, um, like to think it’s priceless. (quickly) But I’ll consider any offers!
Appraiser: (laughs good naturedly) Well, in today’s market I’m sure it would fetch a good price at auction . . .
Uncle Sam: Oh boy!
Appraiser: . . . if it were still in good condition. In fact, I bet there are plenty of people who would gladly die for it. But as it is, well, I’m afraid sentimental value is about all it has left.
Uncle Sam: (long face) Oh, I see . . .
(We hear the tinkly Antiques Roadshow theme, then the appraisal flashes up on the screen: U.S. Constitution, badly damaged: $0)
fade to black.
Posted by: Billmon | Jul 14 2005 3:22 utc | 30
Forget the appearance before the UN re WMD … Colin Powell was scum when he made his choice re honor and integrity when he decided to sell-out in 1968 with My Lai … and nothing has changed since:
Colin Powell: Failed Opportunist
The U.S. news media is having trouble understanding how longtime hero, Secretary of State Colin Powell, let himself be used and now dumped by George W. Bush and his neoconservative administration. But the answer lies in a clear-eyed examination of Powell’s career history: he’s always been an opportunist, only this time he outsmarted himself. A Special Report. November 26, 2004
Trust Colin Powell?
The U.S. news media couldn’t heap enough praise on Colin Powell’s Iraq war presentation to the United Nations. But there are two historical precedents that should give pause about Powell’s trustworthiness. A retrospective. February 6, 2003
Behind Colin Powell’s Legend: Part One
Retired Gen. Colin Powell has given some legitimacy to George W. Bush’s dubious election. But what’s the real story behind the Powell legend, from My Lai to Iran-contra to the Persian Gulf War? By Robert Parry & Norman Solomon. December 17, 2000.
Behind Colin Powell’s Legend: Part Two
Colin Powell emerged from the Iran-contra scandal with his reputation intact, but a review of the secret evidence shows that the scandal might never have happened but for Powell’s circumventing Pentagon rules — and flouting the law. December 19, 2000
Behind Colin Powell’s Legend: Part Three
In late 1986, the desperate call went out to Gen. Colin Powell at his command in West Germany. He was needed back in Washington to save Ronald Reagan. December 22, 2000
Behind Colin Powell’s Legend: Part Four
Colin Powell achieved his icon status through his command of U.S. forces in the Panama invasion and the Persian Gulf War. But his acclaim came at a price. December 26, 2000
Behind Colin Powell’s Legend: Part Five
Gen. Powell’s reputation for integrity dodged a bullet when President George H.W. Bush halted the Iran-contra investigation in late 1992. This last segment of the series shows how Powell went on to near-universal acclaim with the Washington press corps. December 27, 2000
Posted by: Outraged | Jul 14 2005 3:29 utc | 31
Doom. Despair. And agony on me
Deep dark depression
excessive misery
if it weren’t for bad luck
I’d have no luck at all
Doom. Despair. And agony on me.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 3:31 utc | 32
thanx for the My lai connection. I wasn’t so brave to point that out.
Posted by: slothrop | Jul 14 2005 3:32 utc | 33
But, let’s face it, Powell has a habit putting himself on the wrong side of history for personal gain.
Wrong again slothrop. That shit would put himself on any side of history or anything else to advance himself.
Posted by: FlashHarry | Jul 14 2005 3:34 utc | 34
Thak you for further elucidation, Alabama. I tend to side more with fauxreal structurally, but I’m sure that future events will bear you out.
So, does Powell rehabilitate himself after this. Does Condisleeze get off scott free and run for Pres. against Hilary in ’08? Or is she MCcain or Jeb’s vice. And what about Armitage?
If Negroponte is Powell’s choice, what can one say about the results? More violent perhaps, less democratic, but any more efficacious? If not, then what does Powell have to stand on?
If Powell for some own agenda purpose is part of a cabal plotting to cowtip BushCo, there’s no need to imagine that integrity has any part to play. Remember during the last doomed Nixon days the considered opinion of the ‘good germans’ (ie Erlichman & Haldeman) was that Deep Throat was in fact the sleaziest immoral mainchancer of the lot, Henry ‘the gook killer’ Kissinger
Posted by: Debs is dead | Jul 14 2005 3:46 utc | 36
Er….. It worked in preview…
Rove with a Beard: <http://www.xanga.com/item.aspx?user=HomerTheBrave&tab=weblogs&uid=304449467>
Posted by: Homer | Jul 14 2005 4:23 utc | 38
Who is John Negroponte ? A career diplomat or career CIA officer specializing in co-ordinating large scale covert, black and ‘wet’ Ops ? … A station chief who has on more than one posting demonstrated his excellent skills re organized, US sanctioned/directed purges and ‘Death squads’, in Indonesia, Honduras, El Salvador and most recently in Iraq with re-habilitated Ba’athists … a white knight coming to our rescue or a bastard with a dead black heart ? :
Negroponte’s Dark Past: The case against Bush’s new intelligence Czar
George W. Bush’s choice of John Negroponte to be the first US intelligence czar … In 1965, there was a civil war instigated by the CIA in Indonesia, …
Bush appoints a Terrorist as US Ambassador to Iraq
John Negroponte served as US ambassador to Honduras from 1981 to 1985. As Ambassador in Tegucigalpa, he played a key role in supporting and supervising the Nicaraguan Contra mercenaries who were based in Honduras …
National Security Archives: The Negroponte File
John Negroponte speaks at his swearing in ceremony as new US Ambassador to Iraq
… In a back channel communication to CIA director William Casey, …
Negroponte’s ‘Friendly Eye’
Negroponte’s tolerance of “politicization” was reflected in a backchannel cable that he sent to Washington while serving as U.S. ambassador to Honduras in 1983. In pressing complaints from Honduran leaders who were upset with American criticism, Negroponte cited dialogue from William Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar.”
Cassius tells Brutus, “You love me not.” Brutus replies, “I do not like your faults.” Cassius then says, “A friendly eye could never see such faults.”
Posted by: Outraged | Jul 14 2005 4:54 utc | 39
From Alabama on the previous thread, about (Ambassador) Joe Wilson:
It’s my guess that he must have felt really awful about the famous “sixteen words”–a little responsible, even–and decided it was time to lodge his protest. Since I suspect that he’s also rather timid, just as most of us are, he must have needed (and received) lots of encouragement from lots of people to take a step forward…
You know, Alabama, I think you and I must live in a little bit of one of those alternate universes too…ours, however, would seem to revolve around different kinds of naiviete, or something like that…
anyway, I would NEVER characterize Wilson, from what I’ve seen and heard of him, as a timid person…and I would imagine he was pissed, not feeling really awful, about those 16 words (esp. considering things like Shinseki, Zinni, etc. in this whole fiasco.)
It’s been my experience that people who drive Jaguars are not usually “timid,” though I hate to stereotype…but of those I can remember that I’ve been vaguely acquainted with, one was an Olympic skater and the other was the owner of a club in Miami…he’s dead now, btw…killed by the police he was paying off…
I don’t think you become an ambassador if you need encouragement to put yourself forward. And not only that, he’s, um, imho, a very sexy man…and that’s a sort of confidence, too.
(and you can puke now because I said this, slothrop… 🙂
What’s really interesting, though, is to see the various narratives people create to explain this bizarro world we are living in at this time.
apropo of this or nothing, this review was really interesting in that respect. (thanks to DeA for the three-toed sloth)
or here’s a link to Wilson and Sperber’s paper on Relevance if you can stand to have to remember Grice’s maxims.
I picture you sitting among the magnolias, sipping a bourbon, listening to YoYo Ma, thinking about Lear and MacBeth, and I’m here listening to Tom Waits, wishing I was where it’s legal, finding solace when I can sit in my glider curled up with my calico. The same world, but different.
Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 14 2005 5:52 utc | 40
FOUNDING DOCUMENTS ROAD SHOW
Best. Post. Ever.
OK, maybe not the absolute best, but still, *very* funny. Thanks, Billmon.
Posted by: Irony Man | Jul 14 2005 6:21 utc | 41
This whole argument that Rove did the right thing falls quickly enough by the simple fact that we had to have an investigation to get to the bottom of it even after Bush stated that he requested the truth from his staff. Is keeping the truth from the President part of the great thing Rove did for the country? Couldn’t he have saved everyone a lot of time and just admitted it?
Posted by: steve expat | Jul 14 2005 6:31 utc | 42
there is much mockery of despair – here – i simply do not understand how any other reaction is possible confronted with the catastrophe we are living
& it is so sordid – – a situations so degraded – i feel filthy even following it
despair is a dignified response to this tide of murder & lies
one of the only other options is armed. in this life of mine of i have engaged in aremed resistance. i know what it means. as a man. as an element in history & while it is just & correct in certain circumstances – there is also a price to pay & i pay it still
even at this point where there is an enormous richness in my daily life – it is ultimately contingent – on the events of our time – as it is for you. what is love for example in a state of barbarie & a barbarie that does not appear like it will stop
& as leadbelly sd – well well well well well welll welll well well i ain’t going down that well no more well well well welll welll well well
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 14 2005 14:19 utc | 43
& perhaps in this time of times – there is not much left of my humour
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 14 2005 14:25 utc | 44
fauxreal, you’re absolutely right about “timid”; le mot juste would be “risk-aversive,” if not merely “prudent”. It’s my sense that Wilson, for all his color and style, doesn’t go out on a limbs all alone. He lines up lots of support before making his moves….And as for our parallel universes, survival in these parts is a function of air-conditioning. No air-conditioning, no Yo-Yo Ma…..
Posted by: alabama | Jul 14 2005 17:56 utc | 45