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July 2, 2005
Open Thread
Your news, views, visions …
Comments
b Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 2 2005 17:45 utc | 1 I thought I would move this up to the new open thread as it might interest many… Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 2 2005 18:46 utc | 2 It was Rove! : Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 2 2005 18:58 utc | 3 ô uncle Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 2 2005 19:03 utc | 4 “Just funning, he says. Karl, how could you? Didn’t you think about me and the kids? And just how am I supposed to support myself until you get out? No, he’s not going to help. He’s nothing but a lying bum, said so yourself. So don’t expect me to be here when you get out, mister, and believe me, it’s gonna hurt…” Posted by: The Mrs. | Jul 2 2005 19:15 utc | 5 I guess it’s not a big thing over there, but Mr. Bush will be visiting Denmark on Tuesday and Wednesday this coming week — this is before going to Great Britain to meet with other big hats at a G8 confereance. Posted by: BarfHead | Jul 2 2005 20:01 utc | 6 O’Donnell on Huffington Post: Rove Blew CIA Agent’s Cover
Posted by: Fran | Jul 2 2005 20:03 utc | 7 @Uncle $cam, Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2005 20:13 utc | 8 @Uncle $cam, Posted by: Fran | Jul 2 2005 20:14 utc | 9 I don’t know if I hold you same enthusiasm about Rovers rggiap, these people are vicious and dangerous and if this thing lead from rove -> cheney -> bolton, the niger docs etc… it could get very very ugly; as Scott Ritter said, if it getS so bad where we have to call for impeachment and war crimes tribunals it could tear this whole country apart. Which would be devastating for everyone, Also, don’t forget the valued tradition of Presidential pardons… it’s not like it would be new and who better than the lame duck Bush. tHE MOTHER FUCKERS COULD GET AWAY W/IT. Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 2 2005 20:50 utc | 10 The lies behind the lies Posted by: John | Jul 2 2005 21:28 utc | 11 I wasn’t going to post the rest of the weekend, buuuutttt, the above post about Rove’s anal retentive bullshit tearing the country apart changed my mind. Jefferson said a little revolution every twenty years or so is good for the country. 24 years ago we had the Ragass revolution, it is time to sweep the remnents of it out the f—ing door. Posted by: jdp | Jul 2 2005 21:58 utc | 12 does anybody else have more information. on publisher & editor – they have a little more saying a journalist from newsweek isikoff has also confirmed it was rove – but the article is also surrounded by a bit of legalese Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 2 2005 22:17 utc | 13 There is a fabulous article on the fraud at Lloyds of London, available for the first time on-line. I have been pushing this for five years. Posted by: John | Jul 2 2005 22:22 utc | 15 uncle: …it could tear this whole country apart. Which would be devastating for everyone…” Posted by: rapt | Jul 2 2005 22:40 utc | 16 uncle: …it could tear this whole country apart. Which would be devastating for everyone…” Posted by: rapt | Jul 2 2005 22:43 utc | 17 @John, Posted by: Juannie | Jul 2 2005 22:50 utc | 18 @rapt Posted by: Juannie | Jul 2 2005 22:59 utc | 19 Thanks for bringing that up again Juannie – I was afraid it had dropped down the memory hole… Posted by: rapt | Jul 2 2005 23:06 utc | 20 ô if missus piggy is going down. am realistic these gangsters share so many crimes like the hoods they are they will protect him. they are so craven they would make carlo gambino & frank sinatra blush Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 2 2005 23:08 utc | 21 Yasser Salihee, Iraqi physician, correspondent for NPR, Knight Ridder
James Cogan at WSWS suggests that Salihee’s reporting may point to the dark explanation for why he was targetted.
Salihee’s wife is also a physician. In Iraq, Lyden reports, one can support one’s family better as a translator and stringer for western news services than as a physician. Posted by: small coke | Jul 2 2005 23:13 utc | 22 Ollie North. Still at large. Poindexter. Still at large. Nixon. Posthumous honours. Summers, president of Harvard. Kissinger. Still at large. Negroponte. Still at large… These guys die “with honours” in their beds, at a ripe old age with all the comforts of money. They are not of the class that does jail time. Even the Church Commission didn’t result in jail sentences and it was a far more courageous and vigorous investigative panel than anything the current regime would permit. I find it hard to believe that our generation of evildoers will suddenly face justice, when no previous generation of their ilk (in the US) ever did. & their partners in crime the press prove their complicity – not a blip on their screens – fuck them Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 2 2005 23:13 utc | 24 A character such as Rove requires that I dredge up a word I never thought I’d use -Wicked. Non-fiction doesn’t do him justice. Perhaps RGiap will step into the breach. Posted by: jj | Jul 2 2005 23:15 utc | 25 i don’t think so r’giap, i think carlo & frank would be proud of them. Posted by: Juannie | Jul 2 2005 23:16 utc | 26 i am between the devil & hard place Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 2 2005 23:36 utc | 27 it could tear this country apart… You sound like an outsider looking in De. We really need to concentrate on what might work here vs negativism, as justified as your pessimism might be. Posted by: rapt | Jul 3 2005 0:13 utc | 29 Two concepts: sacrificial lamb and presidential pardon. Posted by: gylangirl | Jul 3 2005 0:43 utc | 30 deanader Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 3 2005 0:43 utc | 31 deanander Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 3 2005 0:44 utc | 32 Damn De, you are pissed and I don’t blame you. I rejoice in your flames for the current regime and I hope the Rovians bite the turf. Posted by: jdp | Jul 3 2005 3:11 utc | 34 COME ON!!! Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 3 2005 3:20 utc | 35 So, where’s the Right Whinge Machine on this one? OK– Is this a silver lining on the horizon? Seems Bush becoming more and more isolated even in his own party.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 3 2005 5:07 utc | 38 @Fauxreal, yes, I posted that a day or so ago. I’d heard on the radio that he was rumored to be dead – think he’s been in a coma for a number of yrs – but they said that it wouldn’t be made public until his successor had been chosen officially. Then the other day there was art. in IHT saying that according to several sources incl. the Financial Times, Bandar Bush, the Crown Prince’s chosen successor had moved out of DC w/all his stuff & staff. They noted it was prob. ‘cuz Fahd was gone & the succession struggle was on. Posted by: jj | Jul 3 2005 5:25 utc | 39 One other thing to throw out appropos of the above comments – just wanted to remind everyone that we still don’t know who threw out Nixon or why. The country was torn apart, lost in a war that was ripping apart the Nation… Posted by: jj | Jul 3 2005 5:32 utc | 40 geez, if the media in gb are so far behind that the observer is only now reviewing a dilip hiro book that came out a year and a half ago (while his latest, on iran, came out a month or so ago), most of us probably won’t be around by the time the u.s. media gets to it.
well that was longer than i had planned, but i wanted to preserve the parts re chile, for there was a nice little program on our community radio station today of songs of resistance against imperialism and, while the show is normally centered on eastern european folk & traditional songs, the first song in the program was El Pueblo Unido Jamas Sera Vencido. and the third song was Mikos Theodorakis’ treatment of Neruda’s La United Fruit Co, the notorious cia front in central america, which just happened to be purchased in 1969 by another cia front, zapata-offshore, whose previous owner was none other than george h.w. bush. (it’s a small world after all…) Posted by: b real | Jul 3 2005 5:36 utc | 41 What I meant by the ‘torn apart’ comment is actually that there is nothing much to lose, so get out the pitchforks and torches, tar and feathers. DeA– Newsweeks Isikoff: The Rove Factor? – Time magazine talked to Bush’s guru for Plame story.
Here’s that link to Ruppert via Wolcott, RossK. Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 3 2005 7:01 utc | 45 Interesting – WaPo Help From France Key In Covert Operations
@ jj Posted by: small coke | Jul 3 2005 7:34 utc | 47 Rove to liberals. Posted by: Lupin | Jul 3 2005 8:30 utc | 48 Let;s Celebrate the 4th of July the Haliburton-way. Posted by: Lupin | Jul 3 2005 8:40 utc | 49 Yes, Hersh saying he heard the CIA manufactured the fake Niger yellow cake docs was exceedingly strange. Posted by: Noisette | Jul 3 2005 9:25 utc | 50 John Dean.at FindLaw’s Legal Commentary (October 10, 2003): Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 3 2005 9:40 utc | 51 just catching up — thanks deA for kind words re: Canada. Awkward country of my birth. Posted by: jonku | Jul 3 2005 9:45 utc | 52 ok, so you are asleep. hi also to monolycus, DoDo, A Swedish Kind of Death — how is it there in the land of the evening sun? Gylangirl. Shout outs to 4 legs good. Bernhard with your clear facts. Jerome, how I miss your charts! If I am to inscribe, how can I forget Meteor Blades? Posted by: jonku | Jul 3 2005 10:22 utc | 54 I’ll doubtless be derided for this – part of growing a thick skin, I suppose. Ive been doing my best to complicate matters for the British for some years. On the matter of the forged Niger documents I wrote to Falconer on 18 June 2003. And believe it or not, because of something else I did, I have an acknowledgement for this. Posted by: John | Jul 3 2005 10:39 utc | 55 I never understood how Wilson, notoriously anti-Iraq-war, and advisor to Billy C and with his fingers in several African, ME, pies, including, according to some, tangential involvement in oil-for-food profiteering, as well as all his French contacts, was sent to check out the Sponge Cake matter. That he would de-bunk it was a given. Posted by: Noisette | Jul 3 2005 16:07 utc | 57 Funny, funny thing about the coming attraction of Mr. Rove’s Yellocake-assisted Frog March…. Why is Gonzales, Attorney General of the United States with NO foreign policy task, going to Iraq? I hope we can muster up some support for Crisis Pictures. I’m contacting other blogs that know how important this work is. Guys, Posted by: John | Jul 3 2005 22:21 utc | 63 Holy Shit Kids, look what Scoop just delivered – looks like the Elite is SERIOUSLY considering bringing them down – for real reasons even…Could it really be…. This has the Imprimateur of those who run the National Press club. Posted by: jj | Jul 3 2005 22:37 utc | 64 We’re not all Guys here John, heh heh heh… ;-p Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 3 2005 23:02 utc | 65 @jj Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 3 2005 23:18 utc | 66 US, Posted by: John | Jul 3 2005 23:45 utc | 67 @DeAnander, LonsomeG, Gylangirl, remembereringgiap, nuttymango, Jonku … thankyou … though … Posted by: Outraged | Jul 4 2005 0:58 utc | 69 O John, don’t take Uncle seriously – he is clueless as we all know. Guys is a perfectly good call for folks of either gender. Posted by: rapt | Jul 4 2005 1:26 utc | 70 Rapt is right john, I wasn’t serious, just teasing etc.. Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 4 2005 1:51 utc | 71 thank you spills from lips Posted by: annie | Jul 4 2005 3:28 utc | 72 Am I blocked from posting comments now…? I’ll try this a third time… Posted by: Monolycus | Jul 4 2005 5:17 utc | 73 how is it there in the land of the evening sun? Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Jul 4 2005 7:25 utc | 74 NYT Editorial Hearing the Declaration Anew
Looks like Canadian workers are more skilled than US workers.Toyota to build 100,000 vehicles per year in Woodstock, Ont., starting 2008
How was that? No child left behind, or maybe all of them? Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2005 9:45 utc | 76 Lev Navrozov gives us…A Glimpse Into China’s Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jul 4 2005 15:17 utc | 78 “There are some who, uh, feel like that, you know, the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is: Bring ’em on. We got the force necessary to deal with the security situation. “ – George W. Bush, July 2, 2003. b- Posted by: correlator | Jul 4 2005 18:08 utc | 81 I believe there was an opportunity for Sadaam to avoid war but he waited too long. So there still is some mystery in all of this, and perhaps the USA’s guilt is not so absolute. sorry if this comes up twice – Posted by: correlator | Jul 4 2005 19:14 utc | 83 clearly coming down from my earlier exaltation that rove would go down – clear today – it will not go anywhere – like every other scandal that plagues this criminal administration Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 4 2005 23:38 utc | 85 @correlator Posted by: Monolycus | Jul 5 2005 2:46 utc | 86 I have a somewhat contrarian view on the role of Hans Blix. His measured, bureaucratic-speak delivery to the UN on February 2003 did nothing to stave off the invasion of Iraq. Posted by: DM | Jul 5 2005 3:38 utc | 87 @DM Posted by: Monolycus | Jul 5 2005 7:05 utc | 88 b thanks for the link to that brilliant critique of Kunstler. I agree with the commenter 100 percent and it was great reading. Guardian comment: A fiction as powerful as WMDIt is not withdrawal that threatens Iraq with civil war, but occupation
Author: Sami Ramadani, a political refugee from Saddam Hussein’s regime, is a senior lecturer at London Metropolitan University. Monbiot on Africa aid:
Interesting take on your SCOTUS versus the Judicial Reich: Posted by: John | Jul 5 2005 13:00 utc | 93 Sorry. Doesn’t seem to like my link. Martin Kettle in today’s Guardian. These are the people who make decisions for everyone in a Globalised system. Posted by: John | Jul 5 2005 13:09 utc | 95 over the w/e, spent some time w/ an out-of-town friend who is army, now working retention. first met him in a death-defying episode on a class IV spill on a rain-charged costa rica river. our raft flipped a few minutes into the hours long trip, casting all six of us into the bolder-strewn, churning water, being held underwater by the current for what seemed an eternity. he had just returned from qatar, guarding med facilities. we were the first back into the raft, working desperately to steer the large raft away from the large rocks while locating & retrieving our companions. in an adrenaline surge, he grabbed someone by the life jacket & yanked him straight out of the water right into his face, knocking himself back into the raft, nearly unconscious, broken front tooth. we all survived, a bit beat up & worn down. but that experience created a bond among us & one i don’t take lightly. over the past two years we have met on several occasions & i have witnessed just one example of the affect of this war on those who wage it. at the time in costa rica, there were long conversations about the events transpiring in iraq. a large number of the soldiers, i was told, were aware of the bullshit reasons that sent them there. morale was not high, but they had a job to do. my friend talked of getting out, of fighting against being sent back, of giving up on his goal of completing 20 years service. he & his wife had another child. on two occassions when we met later, it was easy to see how much of a toll this was taking on him. you would be talking to him & suddenly he was somewhere else, staring blankly off into space. nervously chain-smoking. forgetting he had ever been introduced to my girlfriend in previous encounters. i worried for him. later, word came a few months ago that he found a way to stay home by moving into recruiting. actually, it turns out, he’s in retention, which is even tougher, getting soldiers to reup. recruiters, he told me, can get away w/ lying b/c new recruits usually don’t know any better. but those who have been there, well, they have firsthand knowledge of what’s going on, and you can’t bullshit them. the goal for first-timer retention is 65%, 85% for two-termers. recruiters are getting into fist-fights over recruits, he said. the draft is coming, he said w/ certainty. if it was up to the military, they’d prefer an all-volunteer force, but this is impossible now. gone this time were the vacant stares, the nervous chain-smoking, the short attention span. instead of expressing a contempt for the mission, this time it was “i’m totally behind this mission. the reason we got in there was complete bullshit, but we’re there now.” and iran, unlike saddam, really is a threat. and talk of super-soldiers. exoskeletons to enable a man to lift 3x his own weight. optical implants. the navy’s nearly perfected synthetic blood. justifications for the ’91 invasion, the turkey shoot on the highway of death (it’s unfortunate that cnn had to show that), the sanctions, the war on terra. although this was only one individual encounter, i personally felt a setback this w/e at a time when other signs point to increased resistance to the war machine, to the mendacious imperialist idiot-logues. we talked at length about the counter-recruiting movement, u.s. hegemony & militarism, and the more plausible reasons why we are in iraq, but this wasn’t the person i met in costa rica. then, i was told, i would have fit right in in the bull sessions around the barracks. now, removed for two years from the frontlines, i am being told that the mission is rational. i will be sending him two books soon – walden bello’s dilemmas of domination & smedley butler’s war is a racket. counter-brainwashing, if you will. Posted by: b real | Jul 5 2005 15:52 utc | 96 Journalist killed after investigating US-backed death squads in Iraq
The Salvdor Option in progress… @b real Posted by: Outraged | Jul 5 2005 16:44 utc | 98 London Review of Books: Where has all the money gone?Ed Harriman follows the auditors into Iraq
b real Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 5 2005 19:03 utc | 100 |
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