.. if the pink tutu Democrats see that the hearings are not a bad way to get their preening mugs on the tube, they might be more inclined to show up, giving the hearings a little more heft, if only through weight of numbers. Which might draw more media coverage.
Back to Main
June 17, 2005
Getting Traction
Comments
…the Kool Kids would make catty remarks — until their 30-second attention span was captured by something else bright and shiny.
Bravo. That’s distilled down like Old Grandad 112.
Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 17 2005 6:16 utc | 1
Billmon really should know about this service. It is far more comprehensive than google’s cache. For example, look what it dug up on lincolncorp
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://lincolncorp.com
Posted by: brew | Jun 17 2005 6:16 utc | 2
It will be interesting to see if the White House and the Republicans continue their “deaf, dumb and blind” PR response — or rather, lack of response — or whether they will shift to “slime and defend” mode.”
It probably would take about 8 or maybe even 12 straight news cycles of trouble but there is, of course, a third way – the limited hangout.
Question is – if they were to go that route who would they offer up?
I fervently hope that “something really is moving” now.
Another “old” document worthy of renewed attention
is Colonel Sam Gardiner’s paper “Truth from These Podia”,
mentioned on Rivero’s WRH site this morning, and available in full at
the Cognitive Dissidence site. (scroll down toward
the end of the page). As far as the pink-tutu Democrats (Bartcop copyright?) are concerned, I really don’t think that this growing movement of constitutional and institutional opposition should be framed
along traditional party lines. It’s an undeniable and
disgraceful fact that much of the most trenchant and principled criticism of Bush administration duplicity,
criminality, and treason has come from the traditional
Burkean-libertarian right. Scott Ritter, Ron Paul, Mike Rivero, Justin Raimondo, and Joe Wilson are not Democrats, but all have been point men in opposing the war and the lies that made it possible. There are many, many other constitutional conservatives who share their
views. If we are really interested in forging an effective counterweight to the AIPAC-neocon cabal we should be conspicuously embracing them as we prepare to
either man the civil libertarian barricades or launch the constitutional counterattack.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jun 17 2005 7:40 utc | 5
WaPo Dana Milbank’s take of the ‘hearing: Democrats Play House To Rally Against the War – quite satirical, not linked on the frontpage
NYT: Antiwar Group Says Leaked British Memo Shows Bush Misled Public on His War Plans
Knight Ridder: Bush pressed to answer `Downing Street Memo’ questions
USA Today (an AP piece): Democrats want more ‘Downing Street memo’ data
LA Times hides it deep down here: War Criticism and Concerns Both Growing
Missed this ABCnews piece – might get relevant: Memo: Pentagon Concerned About Legality of Interrogation Techniques
The interrogation techniques used at Guantanamo Bay Detention Center in 2002 triggered concerns among senior Pentagon officials that they could face criminal prosecution under U.S. anti-torture laws, ABC News has learned.
Notes from a series of meetings at the Pentagon in early 2003 — obtained by ABC News — show that Alberto Mora, general counsel of the Navy, warned his superiors that they might be breaking the law.
During a January 2003 meeting involving top Pentagon lawyer William Haynes and other officials, the memo shows that Mora warned that “use of coercive techniques … has military, legal, and political implication … has international implication … and exposes us to liability and criminal prosecution.”
Mora’s deep concerns about interrogations at Guantanamo have been known, but not his warning that top officials could go to prison.
In another meeting held March 8, 2003, the group of top Pentagon lawyers concluded — according to the memo — “we need a presidential letter approving the use of the controversial interrogation to cover those who may be called upon to use them.”
No such letter was issued.
Well, without such letter, The Hague will need to make some rooms available for some DoD folks.
“But of course, the Democrats don’t have access to an official hearing room. I don’t see any reason, though, why the party couldn’t build its own, one that closely resembles, say, the House or Senate Judiciary Committee’s hearing room — same walnut paneling, high ceiling and crystal chandeliers, same sold oak table for the witness, massive dais for the members, plush blue carpet, etc. etc. They could put it in an office building somewhere close to the Capitol complex and let Democratic House and Senate members hold their unofficial hearings there.”
Look, I’m as happy as the proverbial pig-in-press-releases about the DSM memoranda gaining some media legs… but fighting deception with deception is not the way to keep the high ground… and right now our only advantage is that we aren’t the ones who have imbellished the case. Yeah, it’s shameful that this meeting was relegated to a broom closet, but as long as this story doesn’t get buried I’m not going to complain that there isn’t enough pomp to go with my circumstance. Truth can be told as easily over folding tables… and lies can be told as easily over polished mahoganey.
So the atmosphere lacked the historical gravitas you want; I’m actually a little bit happy about that. Maybe people will start realising that when they hear a suit with a $300 haircut speak from behind a podium emblazoned with an impressive-looking seal of office, it doesn’t necessarily make what they’re hearing is any more credible. And it’s actually good press… photos of Bush the Younger driving a pickup truck garnered more support from the masses than photos of Kerry being chauffered around. Don’t sell this story as something occult and inaccesible; it’s not. The only reason people swallowed the shallow lies leading to this war in the first place is that they were surrounded by that esoteric aura of “authority”. PTA meetings are something everyone can understand… and the DSM story is something everyone can understand.
Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 17 2005 8:47 utc | 8
@B
No such letter was issued.
Well, without such letter, The Hague will need to make some rooms available for some DoD folks.
Do we really believe no such letter was issued, given
the track record of the media and the administration?
If it indeed was issued, I’m sure the International War Crimes Tribunal can
find suitable quarters for W too.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jun 17 2005 8:55 utc | 9
Hannah K. O’Luthon :
‘ Scott Ritter, Ron Paul, Mike Rivero, Justin Raimondo, and Joe Wilson are not Democrats, but all have been point men in opposing the war and the lies that made it possible. There are many, many other constitutional conservatives who share their views. ‘
Amen! Joe Biden was chair of the committee “investigating” WMDs before the war began… and he refused to call Scott Ritter before his committee.
Monlycus:
‘ … but fighting deception with deception is not the way to keep the high ground… ‘
That seems right to me. And is the reason that I am unconcerned at Howard Dean’s remarks.
Of course both of these remarks bear witness to the fact that to the Demoplicans “keeping the high ground” is an uphill battle.
Posted by: John Francis Lee | Jun 17 2005 10:31 utc | 10
And I thought I was mad!
From the always valuable Today in Iraq:
The story, by the Herald-Leader’s Frank E. Lockwood, covers a local appearance by Cindy Sheehan, president of Gold Star Families for Peace, an organization whose membership includes relatives of more than 50 soldiers who died in Iraq.
Here are the 225 words:
“Cindy Sheehan of Vacaville, Calif., accused President Bush of lying to the nation about a war which has consumed tens of billions of dollars and claimed more than 1,700 American lives — including the life of (her son) Army Specialist Casey Austin Sheehan.
“Sheehan ridiculed Bush for saying that it’s ‘hard work’ comforting the widow of a soldier who’s been killed in Iraq: ‘Hard work is seeing your son’s murder on CNN one Sunday evening while you’re enjoying the last supper you’ll ever truly enjoy again. Hard work is having three military officers come to your house a few hours later to confirm the aforementioned murder of your son, your first-born, your kind and gentle sweet baby. Hard work is burying your child 46 days before his 25th birthday. Hard work is holding your other three children as they lower the body of their big (brother) into the ground. Hard work is not jumping in the grave with him and having the earth cover you both,’ she said …
“’We’re watching you very carefully and we’re going to do everything in our power to have you impeached for misleading the American people,’ she said, quoting a letter she sent to the White House. ‘Beating a political stake in your black heart will be the fulfillment of my life … ,’ she said, as the audience of 200 people cheered.”
Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 17 2005 10:49 utc | 11
The “stake in your black heart” quote was posted by me.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jun 17 2005 10:52 utc | 12
“But of course, the Democrats don’t have access to an official hearing room. I don’t see any reason, though, why the party couldn’t build its own, one that closely resembles, say, the House or Senate Judiciary Committee’s hearing room … “
Bit strange the way this particular train of thought goes. There’s already a thoroughly phony government with all the theatrical trappings in power. No need for an alternative fake government.
The basement room is indicative of powerlessness of the efforts of those trying to salvage democracy in America. Yeah it is both pathetic and incredibly optimistic.
Posted by: YY | Jun 17 2005 11:20 utc | 13
@HKOL
Need a wooden stake for Bush I think.
If we a going to start spreading democracy and freedom, we will have to start with America. It is not, and has never been, a democracy.
As Bollox Ref said on another thread .. the American Republic should do away with the office of President. A very nasty piece of work.
The American Way needs a political stake driven through its black heart.
A few more like Cindy Sheehan could topple the empire.
Posted by: DM | Jun 17 2005 11:40 utc | 14
The meeting of yesterday was perfect and needed no dresing up. The truth never does. Only those familiar with the trappings of power would look for such things, hence Billmon and Dana Millbank taking the same cynical perspective. The truth is just as beautiful in Homespun as Versace. In fact it’s a naked jealousy of Truth’s inherent quailities that forces Washington’s lesser products to overspend at the fashion counter in an envious attempt at mimicry. Was it not a series of TV production quaility staged events that cattily ushserd this nation into this terrible predicament. Up to this point Good People have died for merely pointing out the whores that lay under the cashemere. Yet, all the finest sexing up money could buy for the ugliest of lies, which was presented to the nation by this administration and its flacks as the belle of Team Bush’s policy ball, has proven completely insufficient. For the mere prescense of the unvarnished truth spoken in earnest tones in a basement room of the Capital building over folding tables covered in plain white table cloths, has caught the imagination and attention of the nation, and left us all breathless, from drinking in its natural poise, its grace and its possibility.
What we witnessed is greatness writ large. Men and women sitting in a room discussing the truth, plain and simple. Gift wrapping would only cheapen this most important event.
Posted by: patience | Jun 17 2005 12:13 utc | 15
I agree with Patience, Monolycus and others that we don’t need a fake official-looking hearing room to get the message across. If people see something that looks like just another Capitol Hill hearing they will probably be less likely to tune in and listen to the message. Having the hearings in a simple setting is different and perhaps metaphorical in a way. The plain truth can be put forward in plain surroundings.
Posted by: maxcrat | Jun 17 2005 12:29 utc | 16
I really hope this article will get some attention too. We’ve been hearing the rumours for quite a while; now it’s official. The U.S. has been using napalm-type firebombs, presumably at least in Fallujah, which is where the rumours first arose.
What would Tom Paine say?
Maybe: “Of more worth is one honest man to society and in the sight of God, than all the crowned ruffians that ever lived.”
And maybe: ” the plain truth is, that it is wholly owing to the constitution of the people, and not to the constitution of the government that the crown is not as oppressive in England as in Turkey.”
We can think of this whole horrible WoT/Iraq war episode as a test of “the constitution of the American people.”
Posted by: sm | Jun 17 2005 13:44 utc | 18
And while we’re on the topic of lubed and frictionless media – the New York Times is democratically insane. Clearly, it is showing massive cognitive dissonance as it tries to process stories that demand criticism of our aristocracy (and their clerks).
A few examples:
An article on a retired state trooper who killed his wife and tried to kill her lawyer, then committed suicide?
Divorce Case Shooting Kills Couple and Wounds Lawyer
yes, it was the shooting that did it, not the policeman…
Two editorial titles that were not in reference to “Dr.” Frist:
Dr. Gingrich and Mr. Hyde
Dangerous Quackery
Seems like that poor NYT is trying to mouth something intelligible… Or am I pulling a Frist, and trying to analyze the persistent vegetative state of the NYT as if it were actually responsive to its surroundings?
Posted by: citizen | Jun 17 2005 14:04 utc | 19
I have to say I agree with some of the above posters – people do tend to tune out those official hearing room scenes. Having the hearing in a plain space works both as metaphor and as image. I’d be interested in what the guy from “BAGnotes” thinks.
Posted by: NickM | Jun 17 2005 14:16 utc | 21
Frist (frist)
From the new American English
v.tr.
1. To search (a body politic) for something concealed, especially something intimate or otherwise deserving of privacy, by passing the hands quickly over clothes or through pockets.
2. To be the first in a media forum to symbolically or actually abuse a corpse or near corpse for the shear shameless joy and political gain of it.
Posted by: citizen | Jun 17 2005 14:17 utc | 22
We Didn’t Know
I’m feeling more and more like those good German burghermeisters, who were led through Buchenwald by US troops after the war and forced to look at the piles of starved corpses, unceremoniously stacked like cordwood in open mass graves.
Rather like the mass graves of the 600,000 Iraqi civilians that the US has bombed, shot, burned or starved to death, many of them buried in their own back yards because it was unsafe to go out.
I did not know we have spent $325,000M’s in Iraq,
or rather, since our 150,000 US troops there, at the standard troop salary of $2,000 a month, only
costs US $2,000M a year, that we have been LOOTED of $300,000M’s by Pentagon civilian contractors.
I did not know that after our US Senators voted 100-0 to grift the Pentagon *another* $82,000M to “tide them over until October in Iraq”, that now this week Pentagon is demanding $42,000M’s more!
I did not know that as US reporters yelled their questions from behind police barriers, President Bush flipped off the TV cameras as he walked into the White House with Reichsmarschall Rove in tow.
I did not know that when some few brave Democrats demanded US withdrawal from Iraq by October, they meant October, 2006, over a year away, and that Der Busch’s spokesman insisted “no way”, meaning *at least* another $300,000M down the toilet of Federal-Corporate graft and corruption.
I did not know that US military forces napalmed Fallujah, a civilian city of a half million poor souls, now just a pile of rubbleized death, and that despite the inflated US civilian contractor claims, there is still no running water, sewer or reliable electricity anywhere in Iraq.
I did not know that Der Busch handed over the CIA’s Black Op’s budget and mercenary assassins to Rumsfeld to use as he pleased, without any Congressional oversight, and that those bodies discovered in the desert killed by “gunmen” were killed by OUR gunman, our un-uniformed illegal- combatant mercenaries, un-hampered by any laws.
I did not know that.
But I did know that when your kid gets kidnapped by Marine recruiters, and forced to enlist, and then is killed in Iraq, that you get his last paycheck, (a little under $1000), you get his gear, all pressed and neatly folded, and you get a nice flag, also pressed and neatly folded.
About the same thing you’d get if your son died in prison, except for the pretty American flag.
Something to fly on your porch on 4th of July, while you struggle to recall the sound of your son’s voice, coming up the path after school.
“Hey, Mom, I’m home!”
Home alright. Home in a little box on the mantel.
Posted by: tante aime | Jun 17 2005 17:33 utc | 23
@HKOL6:49am. I lost a child in a car crash 20 years ago. My bereavement did not and does not have the obscene political trappings, the abuse, that Cindy Sheehan has to contend with, but I thoroughly and utterly understand her rage and plain speaking. Thank you HKOL for the ‘stake through your black heart’ link, which leads to a Lexington KY paper, and it seems that Cindy Sheehan, a California resident, is doing a ‘Freedom and Faith Bus Tour’ and made that speech in Lexington. The tour has a website, DriveDemocracy.org, whose contribution page says “The national mainstream media has asked to ride along with us, so this is an opportunity to organize and show Americans that there is an alternative to the religious fanatics on the right. Traditional American values of freedom, responsibility and social and economic justice are being championed by responsible, engaged religious leaders who also respect the constitutional separation of church and state.” This website describes a truly sound effort. Religion is not a part of my life, but my financial support will be going there.
Posted by: emereton | Jun 17 2005 18:14 utc | 24
The flip side of course is that if you’re making a populist statement a PTA meeting atmosphere is exactly what you want. I’m more inclined to take that view. Crowded basement room was just right.
1) People are so used to seeing government as alien, glamorous and far removed from their everyday lives that somebody’s toes wiggling under the table is a jarring reminder that even expensive gourmet political sausage is made out of people. (and was Joe Wilson really wearing open toe sandals and no socks? that’s what it looked like to me!)
2) Item #1 makes the “movement” more accessible. Soccer moms and dads who have doubts may be less intimidated because it’s now big enough to be exciting but without the regular pomp and circumstance of a formal hearing.
3) The fact that congresscritters were willing to meet in a PTA environment subtly but very strongly reinforces the idea that this it’s important to the participants aside from and independent of the fancy-ass trappings of power. And the newspaper shots of Conyers in front of the WH are, IMHO, absolutely priceless.
4) The PTA atmosphere serves as an in-your-face reminder of the difference in accessibility between Dems and Pubs. If anything 3 seconds of PTA on national TV grossly exaggerates the real difference.
Or maybe I’m just kidding myself…
Posted by: radish | Jun 17 2005 18:22 utc | 25
All I can say is: somebody pin another medal on Billmon. The medium is the message, and the message is looking a lot shabbier than it should for lack of an appropriately decorated hearing room. Billmon is absolutely right about this.
Posted by: s9 | Jun 17 2005 19:04 utc | 26
“The medium is the message, and the message is looking a lot shabbier than it should for lack of an appropriately decorated hearing room.”
I’m sorry,s9… I’m not trying to be inflammatory, but I don’t even know what that means. “The medium is the message”…? It sounds like you are saying that nihilistic brouhaha for nihilistic brouhaha’s sake is everything and that there is no underlying truth. If it has to be either/or, I’ll take substance over style and dispense with the window dressing that has elevated C-students from privileged backgrounds to the ridiculous and artificial heights they have achieved. Expensive clothes and surroundings does not make one exempt from the rule of law and the rules of nature. The message is the message, and it’s long past time that the truth got a little naked.
“You are not your job! You are not the contents of your wallet! You are not how much money you have in the bank! You are not your fucking khakis!” ~ Chuck Palahniuk
Posted by: Monolycus | Jun 17 2005 19:25 utc | 27
i’m reminded of the saying, “what really counts in life is sincerity – once you can fake that, you’ve got it made”
or as the prophet muhammad, upon whom be peace, is stated to have said, “speak to people in accordance with their understanding”
the visual aspects of the meeting are a part of the “speech” – but what is the understanding of the people about it? can they dig it that it’s just folks who are trying to hold the government accountable – or do they need the walnut paneling and the crystal chandeliers to clue them in to realizing that this is serious business?
in asking these questions, i don’t presume i know the answer – and it might even be true that some folks like folksiness, and others are more impressed with fine furniture –
as for me, when i go into a bank or a law office or a corporate headquarters, the luxuriousness of it all sets my teeth on edge – but maybe that’s just me
Posted by: mistah charley | Jun 17 2005 19:40 utc | 28
NickM @ June 17, 2005 10:16 AM |
Having the hearing in a plain space works both as metaphor and as image.
fully agree!!!
The same metaphor was evident in Sensenbrenner incident last week. And the metaphor is: GOP determination to control the dissemination of information.
The irony… this recurring metaphor cast on a hearing presenting evidence that the white house lied about justification for war. It’s self-confirming.
YY @ June 17, 2005 11:20 AM;
yeah it is both pathetic and incredibly optimistic.
exactly my impression… well said.
Posted by: JDMcKay | Jun 17 2005 19:50 utc | 29
Conyers letter to the Washington Post about the article Dana Milbank wrote about the hearing yesterday.
The go-it-alone neocons are now shouting for help.
The United States plans to use the upcoming international Iraq conference in Brussels, Belgium, to encourage countries to consider how their national interests might best be served by participating in the stabilization and reconstruction of Iraq, according to the State Department’s Senior Iraq Coordinator Richard Jones.
“It’s hard for me to believe that there isn’t some interest that all countries have in Iraq, and in pursuing those interests, I think they will help stabilize the situation and help to improve life for the Iraqi people,” Jones said at a June 17 press conference. In particular, he urged countries to establish full diplomatic ties with Iraq and look for ways they can engage Iraq in trade and commerce.
The Iraqi government is expected to use the June 21-22 conference in Brussels to lay out its priorities in political, economic and security matters. Jones said this would provide the international community with an opportunity to show its united support for the newly elected government.
Jones said he expects the political discussions to be focused on progress in the constitutional process. According to the schedule established in Iraq’s transitional administrative law and endorsed in U.N. Security Council Resolution 1546, the Transitional National Assembly is to draft a constitution by August 15 and submit it to the voters for approval in a national referendum by October 15. If approved, the constitution will serve as the basis for a new round of elections in December.
Posted by: Friendly Fire | Jun 17 2005 20:24 utc | 31
b and capital B–
Does the Millbank piece signal the WaPo’s desire to now end the Pincus-assisted limited hangout on the matter?
Dear Billmon et al.,
Some of you may know this, but in case you don’t I will post the information about why the Conyers hearing happened to take place int he basement of the Capitol, in a room far, far, far too small.
I had this story up as part of the live blogging we did on the hearing at my place, The Democracy Cell Project.
Here is the excerpt pertaining to the lack of “room” and “decor”. The bottom line is that the Republican Leadership conspired to make sure that thesse hearing looked as unofficial as possible.
From the DCP Blog:
HC-5, The Big Room for hearings that are held in Congress, is open, and has been open during this entire time.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi’s office called this morning and requested it, even offering to change the time of the hearing, as the room was open for two hours this morning, but were denied the use of the much larger room by the House Leadership.
The evidence is clear–the House Leadership deliberately prevented this hearing from taking place in a room that would accomodate the large number of people slated to attend.
Now, having said the above, and fully acknowledging Billmon was on top of the fact that access for Dems is an issue (I just was trying to fill out the rest of the story), I think Billmon has a DAMN good idea. I say be in FULL control of all stagecraft possible.
You could use the place to shoot commercial for up and coming member of Congress that you want to move from the minors to the majors. Or you could use it to train members on speaking on camera, use it as a coaching space. There are a lot of uses for it beside the one for which it needs to be built–that being that the Democrats need to be in full controll of how they appear on TeeVee at all times.