Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
June 16, 2005
A Very British Coup

by John

Everyone knows that Thatcher fell in 1990. Some know that this fall was pre-ordained at Bilderberg. But how many know that a constitutional coup took place?

When Thatcher fell she was replaced by Major. But the mechanism was not a popular vote. Rather a poll of Conservative Party MPs gave the leadership of the Party to Major, along with a working majority. That makes Major the Prime Minister, right? Wrong!

The Prime Minister is appointed by the Sovereign. While it makes sense to appoint one with a guaranteed majority in the Commons, it need not happen that way, and several premiers have carried out their duties from the Lords. (I know of one man who hoped to do just that in the 1990s.)

But the point is that from a LEGAL standpoint, the person who speaks for Britain and can contractually bind the UK is the person who has been given the seal of office by the Sovereign.

And that NEVER HAPPENED in the case of John Major. When he lost the 1997 election he left Parliament completely. He was the first ever “Prime Minister” who did not take up his place in the Lords.  place in the Lords that should be his by right. And the reason is that he was acting ultra vires (beyond his powers) throughout his time in Downing Street.

Why?

The great controversy of the time was the Treaty of Maastricht. We did not know this at the time, but the reason for all the infighting in the UK was the way the treaty would impact on the status of the Sovereign. It would be completely incompatible with the Treason Felony
Act
.

The British royal family did not want to repeat all the backbiting that had taken place over the Single European Act. Then the Foreign Secretary (Howe) and the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Lawson) resigned, and Thatcher was mortally wounded. Some bright spark came up with the idea of an impostor as prime minister and the rest, as they say, is history.

What does this mean? It means that the Treaty of Maastricht is not binding on the British. It means that no treaty signed between 1990 and June 2000 is binding on the British. It means that the Treaty of
Maastricht is defective in law, and hence invalid.

It is at this point that the European elite betrayed their people. Instead of putting the problems right, they would cover them up. Thus was born the European “constitution”.

Anybody that reads the document knows it is not a constitution. For some unknown reason it included large chunks of treaties already ratified, including Maastricht. Peter Hain even went so far as to
describe the document as a “tidying up exercise”.

None of it makes any sense. Unless you understand what the British were up to in the 1990s.

Comments

Thanks John. It sounds a bit like conspiration theory, but it explains a lot of British attitude against the EU.
The Guardian tried to get the tried to get a court ruling against the Treson Fellony Act.

The claim alleges that the 1848 Treason Felony Act violates article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which guarantees the right to free speech.

What happened to this?
Also Major was elected for his second term. Why then would things he signed after that election be formally illegeal?

Posted by: b | Jun 16 2005 6:41 utc | 1

British royal family … want .. to be left alone with their property and their privileges.
“Sovereign”, “seal of office”, “John Major” ?
What is all this? Sorry, but it sounds like stuff and nonesence to me.
I think most people here have a pretty good idea how the British political system works, and that there is no constitution, only convention.
So you are right. None of it makes any sense (to me). And unless you can explain what the British were up to in the 1990’s – in a clear and cogent fashion – with references that can verified – then I’ll have to remain totally perplexed about what it is that you are actually trying to say.

Posted by: DM | Jun 16 2005 7:30 utc | 2

but it explains a lot of British attitude against the EU
Bernhard – the explanation is actually much simpler. The British haven’t quite gotten over their superiority complex. You might not see it written down anywhere, but they still believe that “the wogs begin at Calais”.

Posted by: DM | Jun 16 2005 7:35 utc | 3

Ok old chap, let me see if I understand correctly …
The British Sovereign, Queen Elizabeth II is the equivalent of Chancellor Palpatine (really Darth Sidious, the evil Emperor in disguise) … John Major was Darth Maul and Tony Blair is now the equivalent of Darth Vader …
Righty’O, moving along then …
None of it makes any sense. Unless you understand what the British were up to in the 1990s.
Hmmm, well, we can agree that none of it makes sense 😉
However, you have me at a loss sir, I have no idea what you could possibly mean by ‘..what the British were up to in the 1990’s‘ ???
Damnit ! Where’s Biggles when you need him to explain things or at least provide a satisfying conclusion to another serialized episodes’ plot mystery …

Posted by: Outraged | Jun 16 2005 8:22 utc | 4

Sorry, John, but that I’m from the UK, and that post was complete bollocks from start to end!
For a start, there’s precedents for Thatch being replaced without a popular vote (See Anthony Eden -> Harold MacMillan, Harold Wilson -> Jim Callaghan amongst others), and as for Major not being “appointed by the sovereign”- well, he was! You know that bit after the general election where the winner goes and has a chat over tea and biccies with the Queen? That’s when the PM gets formally appointed. It happens after a change of leader in the ruling party too. Major was appointed in the morning of the day after he won the leadership:

John Major is to be Britain’s new prime minister after winning the Conservatives’ leadership election.
Mr Major, 47, will visit the Queen at 1030 BST tomorrow to be formally appointed and will return to Downing Street as the youngest British leader this century.

And remember was also appointed again after winning the 1992 general election.
And regarding why he isn’t a Lord, well I think being enobled by the Queen as a Knight of the Garter, Britain’s highest honour, might have something to do with it.
I’m not exactly a fan of Major, but John’s post uses a patently incorrect premise in order to construct a ludicrous conspiracy theory about a constitution that’s already dead in the water anyway!

Posted by: Old Fart! | Jun 16 2005 9:43 utc | 5

… end tag

Posted by: Anonymous | Jun 16 2005 9:45 utc | 6

Thanks for that, oh ancient smelly one. I didn’t have time to wrestle the BBC site into submission. Maybe Major didn’t want to be a Lord?
This post is a nonsense. Let the calls for rational debate begin.

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 9:56 utc | 7

Hey Colman, glad to catch you on line.
+Except for the reptile Queen, of course
Tell you what.
I’ve laid it all out for you. Must be a few thousand words over on Billmon’s “Sentence First, Verdict Afterwards” thread. Pure hostage to fortune.
Link
Why don’t you take a look and knock me down.
Billmon tried, kinda.
I’m sure a man of letters like yourself could do better.

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 10:17 utc | 8

John, I don’t need to go over to the other thread: this one will do fine.
Now, how about addressing Old Fart’s post above?
To assist you: you contend that:

But the point is that from a LEGAL standpoint, the person who speaks for Britain and can contractually bind the UK is the person who has been given the seal of office by the Sovereign.
And that NEVER HAPPENED in the case of John Major.

He posted

Mr Major, 47, will visit the Queen at 1030 BST tomorrow to be formally appointed and will return to Downing Street as the youngest British leader this century.

Perhaps you could address the apparent problem with your statement in the light of the facts.

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 10:34 utc | 9

Colman,
Wouldn’t have thought a man of letters would duck a challenge like that.
Answer a question with a question, eh? Since it’s you I’ll oblige.
Old Fart, I know what is supposed to happen. The BBC story simply tells us what is expected to happen. And it is talking about tomorrow. The BBC does not know what happens at the weekly audience between the prime minister and the Sovereign he is sworn to obey. FWIW, and I’m sure you know this, whenever Major was questioned about this meeting he always said “I never talk about my meetings with Her Majesty.”
Major was made a KG about a month ago. Effectively he replaced Jim Callaghan. But this is 2005: Major left office in 1997. There is no incompatibility between the two honours – Thatcher has both a KG and a baronetcy.
The difference is that the KG is purely at the discretion of the Sovereign, while elevation to the Lords is the RIGHT of a former prime minister. And before you say he might not have wanted it, can you remember the amount of flak he took for ennobling that well known criminal Lord Jeffrey Archer?
Knock me down, Colman.

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 11:37 utc | 10

The BBC does not know what happens at the weekly audience between the prime minister and the Sovereign he is sworn to obey.
So how the fuck do you know? This is getting pretty bloody tiresome.
What’s your point, what do you know, and how do you know it?

Posted by: DM | Jun 16 2005 11:43 utc | 11

So you have no evidence to offer of your contention? What is your evidence that Major didn’t get properly appointed?
As for ducking issues, it appears that the allegation that John Major was not duly appointed is key to your theory. If that can’t be substantiated, then there is nothing else to reply to.
Your last point is nonsense: Jeffrey Archer wanted a seat in the Lords, therefore John Major did.

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 11:55 utc | 12

DM,
Imagine you are negotiating with a corporation, specifically a director. You strike a deal, commit same to paper, and both sign a contract. You carry out your side of the deal. A period of time later you invoke the contract against the corporation. But you find out that the man with whom you have been negotiating is an impostor. He was never properly appointed. You are fucked. The corporation walks away.
The mechanism for choosing a prime minister is NOT the popular vote, as it is in normal countries. The mechanism is appointment by the Sovereign.
For more background please see the link placed above for Colman’s convenience.

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 12:01 utc | 13

Colman,
Hiding behind another question? I’m disappointed. What are you so afraid of?

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 12:03 utc | 14

John,
Your an idiot (btw – even your link doesn’t work).
Did you make up this little fantasy world all by yourself? My god! The Archbishop of Canterbury was right!

Posted by: DM | Jun 16 2005 12:17 utc | 15

Imagine you are negotiating with a corporation, specifically a director. You strike a deal, commit same to paper, and both sign a contract. You carry out your side of the deal. A period of time later you invoke the contract against the corporation. But you find out that the man with whom you have been negotiating is an impostor. He was never properly appointed. You are fucked.

Oh dear. That’s not necessarily true, at least in Irish law, which owes so much to British law that I suspect it’s the same.

The position is this: where a third party enters into an ultra vires contract with the company, it cannot be defeated by the company unless it can be shown that the third party was actually aware that the company was acting ultra vires

(Principles of Irish Law, Brian Doolan)
He goes on to note that there is a similiar provision in EU law.
There is also case law that someone who acts and is allowed act as if they are a director can be held to be a director. The company in your case could be in a lot of trouble.
To extend this to the current case: the Queen of England represented to all and sundry that John Major was Prime Minister. It was therefore reasonable for third parties to rely on his agreement as Prime Minister. Attempting to abrogate a treaty on the basis you suggest would be a nonsense. It would be easier to simply abrogate the treaty on the basis that they damn well wanted to.

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 12:18 utc | 16

Hiding behind another question?

You make an extraordinary claim. Where is your extraordinary evidence?
How do you know that John Major was not duly appointed? Are you simply making wild claims because you want to?
What am I afraid of? I’m afraid that this place is going to get swamped in this sort of total crap.

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 12:22 utc | 17

DM,
My apologies
Link

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 12:36 utc | 18

Colman,
In English law the relevant reference is section 285 of the Companies Act 1985.
And Colman, Irish law is irrelevant. The people of Ireland are sovereign. The People of the United Kingdom are not. That is why I refer to “normal countries”.
You also say this applies to EU law (there is a similar provision). That is true only insofar as the EU provision has been ratified. If the provision has NOT been ratified it is not binding. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE POST.
If you don’t see that makes a difference then you have no idea why the most widely quoted word in international diplomacy is “sovereign”.
If you are sovereign you make your own decisions. The people of the UK ARE NOT SOVEREIGN.
That’s why I keep encouraging you to knock me down. I don’t think you can, can you?

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 12:51 utc | 19

No, I don’t think anyone can knock you down John. You are apparently totally impervious to knock-downs or put-downs. Water off a duck’s back, you will be back with your rejoinder ad infinitum until, as Colman fears, you will totally fuck this place with your crap.
It is sometimes quite amusing to listen to some looney at Hyde Park Corner for a while, and then when you tire of his morose banter, you can walk away.
Give us a clue. If we stop responding to you, will you go away?

Posted by: DM | Jun 16 2005 13:05 utc | 20

Can I take it from that that you have no evidence to show? Fine.
So this entire posting is a flight of fancy, and you want to talk about something else now.
The “WHOLE POINT OF THE POST” is that the Maastricht Treaty was not duly ratified by the UK because John Major was not duly appointed Prime Minister. My reading comprehension is still sufficient for me to be clear on that. You still have not provided any evidence to support that.
Incidentially, on Section 285 of the Companies Act 1985:

Defective appointment of directors. If the appointment of a director is found to be defective in any way, Section 285 provides that, for the protection of third parties, any earlier acts made by the person concerned acting as a director remain valid. Where the defect is discovered after a long period has elapsed, it may be advisable for a special resolution or ordinary resolution to be passed by the company in general meeting to give retrospective validation to the acts of the person whose appointment as a director was defective.

That would be the same principle as Irish and EU law, would it not?

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 13:07 utc | 21

Old Fart,
This impostor game began in 1937.
If you read the Coronation Oath Act of 1689 (which re-established the Monarchy following Cromwell) you will see that the oath is to be sworn “by all future kings and queens”. However if you look at what happened in 1937 you will find that only King George complied. QUEEN ELIZABETH DID NOT SWEAR THE OATH.
Now if you combine this with the Treason Felony Act (use revised link above) you have the recipe for dictatorship.
Do you remember when the Burrell trial collapsed, and Paul Burrell sold his story to the Daily Mirror? He had no idea of the significance, but you’ll recall his quote from Queen Elizabeth II in 1997:
“There are powers at work in this country about which we have no knowledge”
Do you know to whom she was referring?
Have another look at the Treason Felony Act. Who else might have been using this law in 1997?

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 13:21 utc | 22

+Except for the reptile Queen, of course
Isn’t that the clue?
It would appear we’re into David Icke (the UK’s answer to Lyndon LaRouche) territory here.

Posted by: Even older fart | Jun 16 2005 13:28 utc | 23

To be fair, More Ancient and Smellier One, that was a quote of a footnote to an article of mine. The footnote was, mind you, aimed at this sort of silliness.

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 13:30 utc | 24

Colman,
There is a difference between defective and a total absence of appointment. See the notes to s 285.
DM,
It is your choice to be abusive.I will remain to respond as I can to any questions. Some questions are covered by the “Sentence First..” thread, which supplies background to this thread.
And I am sure Colman is big enough to answer for himself.
The Avalon Project has removed my original source, but there is this
143. GEORGE VI: CORONATION OATH (1937)
… Then shall the archbishop go to the king and, standing before him,
administer the coronation oath; first asking the king, “Sir, is your majesty
willing to take the oath?” And the king answering, “I am willing,” the
archbishop shall minister these questions; and the king, having a book in
his hands, shall answer each question severally as follows: —
Archbishop: “Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the peoples of
Great Britain, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the union of
South Africa, of your possessions and the other territories to any of them
belonging or pertaining, and of your empire of India according to their
respective laws and customs?” King: “I solemnly promise so to do.”
Archbishop: “Will you to your power cause law and justice, in mercy, to be
executed in all your judgments?” King: “I will.”
Archbishop: “Will you to the utmost of your power maintain the laws of God
and the true profession of the Gospel? Will you to the utmost of your power
maintain in the united kingdom the Protestant Reformed religion established
by law? And will you maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the
Church of England and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government
thereof, as by law established in England? And will you preserve unto the
bishops and clergy of England, and to the churches there committed to their
charge, all such rights and privileges as by law do or shall appertain to
them or any of them?” King: “All this I promise to do.”
Then the king, arising out of his chair, supported as before and assisted by
the lord great chamberlain, the sword of state being carried before him,
shall go to the altar and, there being uncovered, make his solemn oath in
the sight of all the people to observe the premises; laying his hand upon
the Holy Gospel in the great Bible … , saying these words: “The things
which I have here before promised I will perform and keep. So help me God.”
Then the king shall kiss the Book and sign the oath….
Form and Order of the Coronation, pp. 13 f.

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 13:36 utc | 25

Colman,
Yes, that was your quote, wasn’t it. It seems you are brave enough to smear another with words he never spoke. But you are not brave enough to deal with what I actually did write on that thread.
If you want to pass comment deal with what I wrote, Colman. And if YOU want to introduce Icke then YOU will have to justify it.
DM,
I take it you don’t know about Colman’s earlier smear when I was off line?

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 13:42 utc | 26

Now John, I was making a swipe at you and Rapt. Don’t flatter yourself too much.
I’m not concerned with what you wrote on that thread at this time: I have only interested in this thread.
What evidence do you have that John Major’s appointment was defective?

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 13:45 utc | 27

Now Colman, self flattery is when you get bent out of shape when another misspells your name by accident.
You don’t want to know (at this time) about what it was you tried to smear? Why not? Time to draw a line and move on?

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 13:56 utc | 28

I see you’re down to personal attacks and misdirection John. You’ll notice that my “smear” was directed against your theories, not you. As for your being off-line, how the hell would I know that?
Where is your evidence for the story posted at the top of this article? Where is your evidence that John Major was not duly appointed? Let me remind you of what you said:

But the point is that from a LEGAL standpoint, the person who speaks for Britain and can contractually bind the UK is the person who has been given the seal of office by the Sovereign.
And that NEVER HAPPENED in the case of John Major.

Where is your evidence?

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 14:06 utc | 29

Colman,
Hit ‘n run don’t cut it. Neither does victimhood.
You tried to smear what I wrote. When called on it you don’t want to know. If you won’t defend your actions why should I take you seriously?

Posted by: John | Jun 16 2005 14:11 utc | 30

Evidence John?

Posted by: Colman | Jun 16 2005 14:14 utc | 31

what the hells going on? why the riddle speak? is this a personal battlefield or do we have to listen to a bunch of gargle to get to the friggin point. just spill the beans john, don’t play all these games. what are you saying. i may not be as smart as the lot around here but at least i can usually follow along. if your going to open a dialouge don’t make us go back and read some previous crap in a thread.
cut to the finish and speak to us all. if you want a personal knock down w/ colman you guys can text message eachother. whatever. i guess i’ll just go somewhere else. this is a waste of moon.

Posted by: annie | Jun 16 2005 14:48 utc | 32

@annie – I agree
@all – bad try, my fault, thread closed.
One on the house for everybody.

Posted by: b | Jun 16 2005 15:11 utc | 33