Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
April 7, 2005
Billmon: 04/07

Desolation Row

UPDATE:

Yeah, let’s dance! From Russia With Cash Russian Dressing

Schiavo memo, Heilrocket, Powerline, Power Lie

Culture of Death

Healing the sick, sheltering the homeless, caring for the poor, comforting the dying, consoling the grief-stricken, providing emergency relief to the disaster-stricken, educating the children (in places where they otherwise woudn’t be) — these are hardly small things, and the church does them all over the world every day. They don’t usually make the papers or become discussion topics in the political blogosphere, but they make an enormous difference in the reduction of human misery on the planet.

But that’s precisely why, on further reflection, John Paul II’s failings seem so grievous to me, and why I should have confronted them more directly in my earlier post. By endangering the church’s going-concern value, he may have done great harm to the world, creating costs which future shareholders will be paying for generations to come.

Comments

well done, billmon. i hate it when the media whores gush over dead folk. a little dose of reality is a good thing. JPII did his best to push the world back to the middle ages. his archaic attitudes on birth control caused much death and suffering in the third world and his rightwing/ronny raygun ideology was horrible for latin america.
why the hell were assassins so accurate in the ’60’s and not in the early ’80’s?

Posted by: lenin’s ghost | Apr 7 2005 6:45 utc | 1

A thoughtful post, Barkeep, and it moves me. This caught me by surprise, because I like to think I’m too hard to be moved, or moved very much (it’s that Marlboro Man that I’ve always yearned to be–before he found out he was dying of lung cancer). Your post makes me feel somewhat sad; no, it makes me feel very, very sad. Because it wasn’t just the Marlboro Man that moved us back in the early ’60’s, it was also JFK and Pope John XXIII. I’m not a Catholic, but I adored these two men who were with us for such a short while, and who gave us so much to look forward to.

Posted by: alabama | Apr 7 2005 6:49 utc | 2

. Is there any possible way to describe the lightness of spirit that lifted us up when John XXIII announced Vatican II? You may be too young, Barkeep, to remember Xavier Rynne’s files to the New Yorker that described that wonderful convention as it unfolded from month to month. But what fresh air! What a way to wake up in the morning!…..And now we have what we have: the hulk of a wrecked ship wallowing in the middle of the sea, over-run by a gang of filthy pirates flying the jolly roger of the Opus Dei. Maybe someone will happen along and salvage it, or maybe it will just sink slowly, like Gomorrah, out of sight…. Ah, but that John XXIII–how he came out of absolutely nowhere, like an angel from the pages of Nietzsche!

Posted by: alabama | Apr 7 2005 6:50 utc | 3

even more “godly dominion”
CARBONDALE, Ill. (AP) _ A law school student group that requires members to pledge to adhere to Christian beliefs _ including a prohibition against homosexuality _ has sued Southern Illinois University for refusing to recognize the organization.
A chapter of the national Christian Legal Society at the university’s law school filed the lawsuit Tuesday in federal court, alleging school officials violated the group’s constitutional rights, including the right to free speech, by revoking its status March 25.
The revocation means the group can no longer use the university’s facilities or name, and is no longer eligible for school funding, according to the lawsuit. A university official said, however, the group can still use campus facilities.
The Annandale, Va.-based Christian Legal Society has filed similar lawsuits against other schools, including Arizona State University and the University of California, said the group’s attorney, M. Casey Mattox.
In revoking the group’s status, Southern Illinois University cited violations of school policy that official student organizations must adhere to all federal and state nondiscrimination laws, the lawsuit says.
A statement of faith that society members must vow to follow includes, among other prohibitions, “the Bible’s prohibition of sexual conduct between persons of the same sex,” the lawsuit says.
The Christian Legal Society is a nationwide association of Christian lawyers, law students, law professors and judges with chapters in more than 1,000 cities across the country, Mattox said. He said the university chapter had fewer than 20 members.
Law school dean Peter C. Alexander said Wednesday night he had only just received a copy of the lawsuit and could not comment.
The lawsuit seeks an injunction restoring the group’s registered status at SIU. It also asks that the school be ordered to pay the group’s legal fees.
AP-CS-04-06-05 2323EDT

Posted by: Hamburger | Apr 7 2005 8:18 utc | 4

Having been born and raised Catholic, the oldest of 14 children, a nun for six years, I find Billmon’s reflections about the pope both refreshing and affirming. All of my sibs would agree, much to the chagrin of our dear mother. Thank you for the honest post.

Posted by: Maggie | Apr 7 2005 12:53 utc | 5

John Paul II’s death (the UK satirical rag Private Eye immortalised him long ago as Pope George Ringo) has led me to revisit R T Naylor’s Hot Money and the Politics of Debt, which among other things, looks at the role of Vatican bankers such as Roberto Calvi in money laundering, tax evasion and the illegal funding of political activity (eg of far right groups in Italy and in Latin America, particularly Argentina).
Calvi – a kind of Italian version Ken Lay when it came to offshore vehicles – was an admirer of Mussolini, who had granted tax haven status to the Vatican in 1942.
I am not aware of what if any steps JPII took to clean out the stables post-Calvi. Is it the case that the late pontiff’s rhetoric about the poor was not matched by action on tax evasion by the rich, facilitated through the Vatican’s own financial institution, during his reign?

Posted by: Ineluctable | Apr 7 2005 14:16 utc | 6

why the hell were assassins so accurate in the ’60’s and not in the early ’80’s?
This really is beneath contempt, lenin’s ghost. My advice: Next time you feel the urge to post something like that, count to ten, then think again. Repeat until the urge goes away.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 7 2005 14:17 utc | 7

That was me, by the way.

Posted by: Billmon | Apr 7 2005 14:17 utc | 8

Ineluctable: Actually, the previous one, JP I, wanted to have a look at the dubious financial scheming surrounding the Vatican. Of course, he just had time to make a few statements and then he *accidentally* dropped dead. Godfather III isn’t a complete figment of Coppola’s imagination.
I suppose some people thought it would be best if the next Pope was a holy crusader on a mission from God to wipe out Evil bolshevism – he wouldn’t have time or inclination to look at the finances of the church.
Of course, this is just a conspiracy theory 🙂
Lenin’s Ghost: well, don’t go there, because What-Ifs are quite depressing when it comes to that. Better not think of JPI reigning for a few more years, or of Oscar Romero succeeding him instead of Karol Wojtyla.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Apr 7 2005 14:58 utc | 9

Not one to want to pipe up with ‘good job, Billmon’ posts, I still think this one deserves it.
Note to Judith Miller:
This is what a WMD article from you might look like today. If, that is, you had a brain, a heart or a conscience.

Posted by: mats | Apr 7 2005 15:24 utc | 10

I was raised nonreligious, and so have no opinions about the pope.
Reading this and Eagleton’s, Cahill’s pieces, etc. impresses me the requirement of an idealized biography needed to sustain the Greatness of Men. We are probably better off saddened by the vainglory of the dead, rather than deceived by what British historian Thompson called “the condescension of posterity.”

Posted by: slothrop | Apr 7 2005 15:54 utc | 11

I am not very religous and don’t really care about the subject that much. I have my opinions, but I will keep them to myself on what I think of the pope and the Catholic Church. A relic from the Roman Empire lives on.
My big worry is the larger and larger role the end time wingnuts are playing. They are pushing farther every day into the inner workings of government and it is dangerous. It is time for logical leadership to step up.

Posted by: jdp | Apr 7 2005 16:38 utc | 12

logical leadership
Aint that a bitch

Posted by: slothrop | Apr 7 2005 16:42 utc | 13

to lenin’s ghost:
burn in hell.

Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Apr 7 2005 16:54 utc | 14

my take on JP2 is “hand his maggot-ridden corpse to the necrophiliacs and let them enjoy”.
i was raised in a deeply catholic house, my stepfather coming from a family of the hungarian nobility. on top of that i was at an internate run by religious freaks and at nuns school (yes, nuns, not patres). my stepfather would bow and kiss the bishops hand on street, i had to go confess weekly with a young priest who i considered an asshole. i hated this haughty fag but still had to go tell him about my business. at 12 i decided the church was crap and since 14 i havent gone to mass.
while my personal grudge against this club of parasitic assholes may be my business, what JP2 did to austria by nominating those three deranged assholes as bishops against the wishes of the respective congregations became a national problem far beyond the limits of the church. all three of them took a fall, the last one was bishop krenn, who became a national joke last year when pics appeared showing that a seminary run under his nose was joyfully celebrating homosexual parties, even child-porn was found. groer and his child-fondling and how the church protected him has not been forgotten either.
chile, my other home, is no different. basically everything is run by the church, and some very weird stories of murders boys aged about 18-25 have been going on for years. the murders counted about 50 last time i checked, and involve the military because of suspected links to drug smuggling, the church who “intervened” to put in a “person of confidence” as an arbitrator (for what ?) and the judiciary covering everything up. the tales of priests transferred to other countries after being caught fondling of fucking minors also abound.
my third bunch of grudges against the catholics is the suppression of positive developments like theology of liberation, of constantly frustrating the efforts of young and engaged priests, but this has already been mentioned here.
and yes, of course, here in austria there exists something called “church tax” which almost everybody has to pay. on top of that, there exists something called “concordate” which is a law which states that austria hands over lots of real estate to the church, that the church is tax free, that austria hands the vatican a big fat lump of money every year, year after year since 1934, and that the republic cant interfere in church business.
probably we all should become child fuckers and fascists in order to better our lot. i couldnt agree more with that rethorical question of “lenin’s ghost” above.

Posted by: name | Apr 7 2005 17:52 utc | 15

@Billmon that is handsome of you — graciously done, and reads well. More bloggers — and writers in general — should write followups, revisions, self-critique, retrospective, etc., showing how their/our thoughts change and evolve across time (whether a week or two, a cool-down period, or a few years or decades). We place imho far too much emphasis on presenting a Seamless Position, an internally-consistent, defensible edifice of prosody and ideas — and too little on sharing the process by which ideas and thoughts morph, mutate, accrete, splinter, etc.
Anyway, my somewhat baffled thought for the day is Why — why is it that so many institutions are, at this particular historical moment, suffering from such a strong restorationist/revanchist, nostalgic/authoritarian backlash? I offer as fodder for this inquiry the “Bande Materam” style Hindu nationalist rightwing revanchist/revisionist movement in India; the Shari’a/fundamentalist Islamist movements worldwide; the good ol’ time Capo/Bossman style of Berlusconi and Putin; the resurgence of the BNP in the UK; the primacy of Opus Dei and other rightwing/restorationist forces in the Catholic church; the “red state” Bible-thumper phenomenon in the US with its zeal to replay the Scopes trial and possibly the Salem trials as well; the ultra-revanchist Settler movement in Israel; the wingnut extremism in the US, reminiscent of the McCarthy years in the nostalgic return to comic-book villains and comic-book methods of dealing with them (biff! bang! pow!). Sometimes one feels that the whole species has taken leave of its senses in a kind of Saturnalia of anti-empiricism, anti-rationality, a worldwide tantrum against the Enlightenment and all its values.
It seems at times as if, all over the world, people have lurched a little too far towards modernity [flash: the ape-people standing around TMA-1, daring each other to touch it, flinching and snatching their hands away?] and are now flinching back from it as if burnt. Or perhaps it is that the inhumanity and penchant for crisis-creation that characterise industrial capitalism have attacked the fabric of daily life so deeply that millions of people are in some kind of emotional revolt against it, or trying to be (but guided by the plutes into safely ineffectual “culture wars”)? Or is it perhaps that on some subliminal level we, as a species, understand how far we have overdrawn our biotic bank account, in what a delicate and perilous state our civilisations stand, and our instinct is to duck-n-cover, crouch back into a defensive stance, return to the fantasy of a safer, more idyllic past?
Is it that several institutions — the Church, capitalism, the American Republic, Islam, the oil-based economies, nationalism, patriotism, faith in general — have reached the cusp of decay all at the same time, and that desperate efforts are underway to shore them up because we are incapable of imagining anything that will replace them? Are we teetering on the edge of some new social organisation that is (of course) being fought tooth and nail by those who feel safer with the “tried and true”?
Why the heck is it that all this revanchism, authoritarianism, repression, and backlash is going on in so many venues and sects simultaneously? Is this just a phase we’re going through, or truly the beginning of some kind of bizarre Retrograde Era when the absolute values of patriarchy, warrior-cults, bullying sky-gods, feudalism, and the like will dominate the globe?

Posted by: DeAnander | Apr 7 2005 18:42 utc | 16

I’m Christian and found Lenin’s ghost’s comment disgusting, but one assumes that it was just an over-the-top comment in extremely bad taste, like the one made later telling Lenin’s ghost to burn in hell.

Posted by: Donald Johnson | Apr 7 2005 19:09 utc | 17

Why the heck is it that all this revanchism, authoritarianism, repression, and backlash is going on in so many venues and sects simultaneously? Is this just a phase we’re going through, or truly the beginning of some kind of bizarre Retrograde Era when the absolute values of patriarchy, warrior-cults, bullying sky-gods, feudalism, and the like will dominate the globe?
I don’t know the answers, but those are all good questions.

Posted by: Billmon | Apr 7 2005 19:13 utc | 18

Vatican gives Cardinal Law role of honor
VATICAN CITY – Cardinal Bernard Law, who resigned in disgrace as archbishop of Boston over his role in the clergy sex abuse crisis, has been given a role of honor in the mourning for Pope John Paul II. …..

Posted by: Nugget | Apr 7 2005 19:34 utc | 19

I think your questions are right on the mark, DeAnander, as is the drift of your speculation. Something is happening with TV, the internet, jet travel. The volume and speed of the traffic has overwhelmed the older networks, which, in their effort to purify and fortify their respective regimes, find themselves resorting to the very devices that have “created” the problem in the first place. They’re under attack from own defences–their own “immune systems,” if you will. A world-wide panic, perhaps, in (and out of) a pandemic of network velocity and volume, aggravating itself in the very process of seeking a cure? Paul Virilio explores this structure in various ways, and does so a lot better than I can possibly convey. I therefore, point you, and eagerly, toward Virilio’s numerous and enlightening essays, none of which is unduly long, and most of which are translated from French into English. If you already know them, I hope you’ll forgive me for not recognizing that fact in the first place.

Posted by: alabama | Apr 7 2005 19:39 utc | 20

have reached the cusp of decay all at the same time
it sure feels like a liminal moment.It’s easy to say: Hasn’t it always been? But, one of my interests in the leftist political economics is the amazing foresight of “waves” of crisis predictably culminating in the global econ shock we might be experiencing now. Again, I just read Mandel’s Late Capitalism which augurs much of what seems to happen today.
jdp raises an important point: the problem of leadership. This is a hugely important need which cannot be presently fulfilled by anyone, asfaik, in our political class.
Without such leadership, the presentiments of terrible violence seems justified.

Posted by: slothrop | Apr 7 2005 19:45 utc | 21

Maybe this hardening and extremism is not something so new after all; maybe it’s just a lingering yet potentially chronic sickness arising from the K2 bug. There really is nothing new under the sun.

Posted by: Nugget | Apr 7 2005 19:58 utc | 22

alabama & deanander
one of our number – here – has written a very interesting book on just that – speed & time – i hope he will elucidate here later

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 7 2005 20:15 utc | 23

DeA – I have this theory that man is unable to face life (and death) on his own, and has needed at all times the support of all-encompassing ideologies/religions that make sense of it all and provide sets of rules for life in community. Our liberal/capitalist society has pushed a new system of organisation whereby individualism is the rule, more or less well organised by value-neutral, passive, soulless institutions like laws and courts. Well, man (or the vast majority, anyway) cannot cope on his own. He cannot hold himself to self-imposed rules, he seems unable to define values other than the monetary ones pushed by the dominating economic/financial interpretation of the world, and he is scared shitless. In the meantime, old churches (whether the catholic one or the communist one) are still discredited. Thus the renewal of sects, cults and tribal movements (à la Le Pen, BNP, Lega Nord, Minutemen) which tap that old well of self-identification.
Yeah. Count me in favor of aristocracy. Do it the French way – it’s determined by your level in maths and science when you’re 18.

Posted by: Jérôme | Apr 7 2005 20:18 utc | 24

it sure feels like a liminal moment.It’s easy to say: Hasn’t it always been?
well exactly. speaking as the ant on the table cloth, the direction and scale of the pattern always seem to start changing from where I currently stand 🙂
I find myself often echoing the befuddlement of Arthur Dent — “Has the world always been like this, and I was just too wrapped up in myself to notice?” Are our perceptions of crisis, immanent disruption (and the corresponding millenarian preoccupations of the Rapturistas) coloured by anything more than our myopic perspective on history? From any position on the surface of a medium sized — but massive enough to have a decent gravitational pull — sphere, it always appears that everywhere else is downhill from where you stand 🙂
Perhaps civilisations are ending a lot these days, in the sense that (after the industrial revolution anyway), severe discontinuities of technology and lifestyle divide generations… so that the habits, daily tool-use patterns, emotional values and attitudes of a 20 year old next door (though s/he appears to share my generic secular/liberal values) might be more foreign to me than, say, the core values and attitudes of a foreigner of my own generation?
Is it this accelerating intergenerational technology/popculture divide which is panicking the authoritarian institutions whose poser is in their continuity? It is even sharper for people in the third world, of course, whose own “westernised” children are probably even less comprehensible to them than a casual-stranger 20-year-old is to me. Colonial/mercantile aggression has wiped out entire language groups, entire multi-millennial bodies of folk knowledge, practically overnight. Knowing what the engines of colonial capitalism have done to others, do we suspect in our hearts that we (at the heart of Empire) may ourselves also be overrun, permanently altered, unmoored from our cultural base? Is the revanchist backlash a desperate struggle to preserve some kind of continuity? Are people upset on a gut level when their children have to teach them how to program the VCR? it is a reversal of anything human beings have ever known about parenting and teaching.
Random musing. I really, deeply Don’t Get It. As one who has little nostalgia for the social aspects of “the good old days” — despite my respect and appreciation for the frugality and excellence of many older technologies — revanchism holds little charm.

Posted by: DeAnander | Apr 7 2005 20:24 utc | 25

whose power is in their continuity
sorry

Posted by: DeAnander | Apr 7 2005 20:27 utc | 26

Billmon: a small request…
Would you consider changing the title of the last piece. Googling “From Russia with” yields more than half a million references… This has become such a lame expression, it makes me cringe each time I read it nowadays – which, as I work with Russia, allows me to generate 2kW on a fairly constant basis…Thanks for considering this small request!

Posted by: Jérôme | Apr 7 2005 20:51 utc | 27

DeA- wrote:
” why is it that so many institutions are, at this particular historical moment, suffering from such a strong restorationist/revanchist, nostalgic/authoritarian backlash?”
I don’t have time to write the response this question deserves now, as I’ve gotta run; but will write later. For now, let me just say that it’s Not “At this particular moment” – that’s the source of yr. confusion. Only Athena emerges full blown from the head of Zeus. This began in ’67-’68. It’s merely Now reaching it’s successful culmination after 30-37 yrs. of planning, & building.
This is the elite response to the 60’s, why I keep calling it the Capitalist-Counter-Reformation… from reading their documents; but name is my own by obvious historical analogy – now that Wall Street rather than the Church is the real source of power.
Will develop this evening P.S.T. but that should get you started.

Posted by: jj | Apr 7 2005 21:17 utc | 28

You must simply face the fact (painful as it is) that the top-heavy, over-complex industrial system IS collapsing. Naturally this causes panic in a broad variety of communities, geographic and social, that have relied on this system to the point that they are in some measure dependent on it for sustenance.
So far I have seen no credible predictions on how this collapse will proceed, how long it will take, how people will be personally affected by it, or what is likely to be the end result. We all seem to be totally clueless on this one.
So we begin to abandon faith in the old since it has finally proven not to work, but most of us have no idea where the lifeboats are, if indeed any lifeboats exist at all. To me this explains quite well most of the above discussion on the subject of revanchism and the like.
I don’t think fighting to hang on to the past is going to work either. Concepts like throwing the rascals out of office etc. so that we can get back to our comfortable constitutional govt. are just dreams of a simpler time.
Chatting on MOA is just fine though, so please keep the electricity connected for as long as possible.

Posted by: rapt | Apr 7 2005 21:22 utc | 29

In Karen Armstrong’s Battle for God she makes it clear that the assorted fundamentalist movements are products of the modern age. They are believers caught between a rejection of myth and an inability to find meaning in the modern world. As a result they substitute myth for truth and try to base their world on it. So we get literalists trying to base their view of the world in a literal way on the Bible, which is just plain silly. Alternatively, they adopt whatever mad-cap philosophy (Objectivism!) or pseudo-science (free-market capitalism) best justifies themselves and worship that. If they’re really lucky they get to combine the two into wealth-is-proof-of-virtue-free-market-capitalist-religion, which makes them true philospher-kings. Fundamentalism has developed over several centuries as religions try to adapt to the modern world and is generally driven by fear.
Some of the political rise of the right is attributable to the fall of the system in the USSR and its satellites. Left-wing parties took quite a hit from that: the spin that socialism/communism had lost and free-market capitalism had won became the conventional wisdom. Tribal movements are always waxing and waning. I think we’re just more aware of it in a smaller world.
Personally, I think a lot of this is the last gasp of the ancient world in the face of the modern, but that’s the optimist in me.
Economically, the fundamentalists are destructive: imagine a US where education was controlled by the dominionists. Biology would disappear, medicine would be destroyed, geology and physics castrated. The entire machine, including the high-tech military they’re so fucking fond of, would be destroyed and it would be impossible for the country to survive the upcoming upheavals. Long before that happened, of course, the economic consequences would be bad enough to force change. The social darwinists are similarly destructive economically: destroy the middle class and noone will do, or be able to do, middle class things. Wave goodbye to the economy, and as an aside, you stand a good chance of finding out whether Marx was right about a revolution of the proletariat. We got rid of feudalism because we had to, and we reformed capitalism to be nicer in order to avoid having their mansions burnt down.
I don’t agree with Jérôme’s contention that man cannot survive naked in the Universe. I just think that we don’t teach people to do so. People want to know where they stand, and we don’t tell them. Religion and tribal movements give them that. Church, football, nationalism, *-ism, whatever. Most people are never given a modern way of grounding themselves. Often the education system and society is hostile to such a thing. So they are cast adrift without family, without a god, and without a place in the Universe. Some of them end up in weird places.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 7 2005 21:24 utc | 30

@Colman
I want to know who is this -we- that doesn’t tell the people where they stand.
I appreciate your optimism but these people need someone, a leader as was mentioned several times upthread, to tell them what to think and to give them some confidence. Most of the bosses now aim to either enslave the people or kill them (some of them). Not much future in that, at least not for the enslaved or the dead.

Posted by: rapt | Apr 7 2005 22:09 utc | 31

For what it’s worth, the scuttlebutt has it that John Paul I was targeted because in his first month he made moves to clean up the rotten Church finances, and was given a little shot to help the mycardial infarction along. John Paul II was more of a company man… or perhaps the attempted assassination was a warning…
So, wondering why JPII survived and JPI didn’t is disgusting and reprehensible? The fact that all of this is so emotionally charged gives me much pause.
Beyond that, word has it that the College of Cardinals (or as I call them, little Red Birds) is going to shoot for someone older so they don’t have to deal with a 25-year reign.
Inquiring minds…

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Apr 7 2005 22:17 utc | 32

Rats! It will probably be Ratzinger.

Posted by: Garfield | Apr 7 2005 22:28 utc | 33

So rapt, do you need a leader to tell you what to believe? Why do “these people” if you don’t? What’s different?

Posted by: Colman | Apr 7 2005 23:02 utc | 34

We, as in society, or at least that part of it that has embraced and is reasonably comfortable with, the modern world.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 7 2005 23:04 utc | 35

De has a good question, but I must agree more with rapt. While there is inner-generational gaps, I believe it is the de-industrialization of the west that is driving elite theory right now. Nothing is done without elites from Europe, the Us and East Asia deciding either at the CFR or the Trilat Commission.
They know that the de-industrialization the west is causing massive dislocation, falling wages, and lack of benefits. The elites have moved their money to new grounds of exploitation (China and India). To quell the distrust and falling wages, services on the state and federal level and to keep elites bank accounts in tact you must get the sheeple to tyrn to “other means” to find the answer to life. Because if things keep going as they are in the US, someday there will be blood in the streets and I’m sure it isn’t Joe sixpacks blood.
By the way De, I have my fourteen year old program our VCR.

Posted by: jdp | Apr 7 2005 23:15 utc | 36

Gowan […] has written quite a bit that shows how finance-capital, the hot-money, is now in charge. The implications for labor are baleful. Capital has acquired a level of flexibility where it can simply liquidate whole enterprises – as evidenced by the orgy of “mergers and acquisitions” in the last few years. The idea that labor can organize a workplace or an industry and pinch them with slowdowns or strikes is now highly questionable, when the ownership is now diversified and spread through capital markets, especially derivatives and the like. They are looking at return on investment (as opposed to directly looking for surplus-value) across a very diverse set of assets, and even future assets, and when one becomes a liability in the hot-money milieu, it is simply cashed out.
The problem is that the surplus-value (marxian profit) that has now been subordinated to the needs of speculative capital is still the basis of real accumulation, and the tendential law of that value will assert itself somewhere, somehow. this is the increasing disequilibrium at the heart of the system, this and another marxist-identified phenom, the organic composition of capital. The increasing mass of fictional value carried on the US dollar is restlessly seeking new bubbles to inflate, and meanwhile fewer than a quarter billion human beings (increasingly poor third-world women, btw), the deracinated proletarians in the hellish bidonville cities across the globe, are valorizing the total social capital (not the fictional value, but at the point of production), leaving billions more not as that ‘reserve army of labor’ that Marx saw, but as surplus population left behind from the past generations of capital expansion. US imperialism is now about positioning not to control these populations to exploit them, but capturing the dwindling resource base of the planet for itself and allowing them to die. Haiti is an example, as is most of sub-Saharan Africa.
I’m not as close to despair as you, I don’t think, about all this. There is a great journal, Capitalism, Socialism, Nature, that is very eco-feminist in its orientation (the last issue interviews Maria Mies), that argues for bioregionalism and a “subsistence perspective” as a sort of precautionary principle for any post-revolutionary development. Good reads, too, on the activism of women around the world. Very encouraging and redemptive stuff.

(Stan Goff)

Posted by: DeAnander | Apr 7 2005 23:25 utc | 37

de
i have a feelin stan goff is your boytoy
seriouslly, he writes very well – this fellow & he’s a lot more optimistic than i am
as with jack henry abbot – goff posseses a clarity of thought uncluttered with idioms thare are not useful
i read him where i can most often at counterpunch
but i ahve an image of you & stan sailing a junk to china in search of bees

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Apr 8 2005 0:00 utc | 38

DeA:
why is it that so many institutions are, at this particular historical moment, suffering from such a strong restorationist/revanchist, nostalgic/authoritarian backlash?
In part I think they support each other in some cases and provide a suitable enemy in other cases. Both may enhance their growth.
Meanwhile in Sweden, a feminist party was started last tuesday and todays polls give them 7% in next years national election. And that is before they even have formulated any platform or started their campaign. Sweden having a proportional election system and fairly even balance between the powerblocs, a party with 7% of the votes and therefore 7% of the seats can be pretty powerful.
Just pointing out the obvious fact that not all trends run in the same direction.
Jerome,
Yeah. Count me in favor of aristocracy. Do it the French way – it’s determined by your level in maths and science when you’re 18.
Mine were really really good, but I guess you have to be french to or can I join now? 😛

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Apr 8 2005 0:15 utc | 39

I’m reading Dark Age Ahead by Jane Jacobs.
She says that a dark age for a culture elicits a complete loss of the methods, habits and values that are passed from one generation to another. For example, the Romans’ use of crop rotation was lost and Europeans c. 1000 C.E. ate grass. This is evidenced in the fossil record.
Her take on our (North American) culture is that these losses have already begun in five critical areas:

community and family (the two are so tightly connected they cannot be considered separately)
higher education
the effective practice of science and science-based technology (again, so tightly connected they cannot be considered separately)
taxes and governmental powers directly in touch with needs and possibilities
self-policing by the learned professions

Here’s another good quote: “Dismayed at the distraught modern world, we may be excused for supposing it to be in unprecedented crisis.”
Anyway, it is a good read, light and full of history and a lifetime of insight and wisdom.
She has never driven an automobile, instead she uses her vantage as a passenger to observe and analyze the structure of roads and cities.
Incidentally she has moved from Greenwich Village to Toronto — I wonder why? Perhaps the subsequent chapters will have more personal tidbits from this connoisseur of urban life.

Posted by: jonku | Apr 8 2005 0:23 utc | 40

billmon…..i only hope that the horrors supported by reagan and pope deux bother you as much as my statement.
don j…..if you really are a christian, you should be more concerned with the evil done in latin america in the ’80’s condoned by reagan and popey two.
MG…..actually, i’m gonna be cremated and tossed in the pacific. ‘burn in hell’ isn’t so far off. i’ll give you call when i decide to do it.;-)

Posted by: lenin’s ghost | Apr 8 2005 1:02 utc | 41

Alas, there is no civility left in the world.
Such bickering over a rotting human corpse of little accomplishment.
We need Glade plug-ins in here,and fans, big time.
This place is starting to stench.

Posted by: Miss Manners | Apr 8 2005 1:17 utc | 42

@rgiap, whatever you’re smoking, I think you oughta share with the other barflies 🙂 as it is obviously powerful stuff!
@jonku I love the idea of a Dark Age Ahead book that is a good read, light 🙂 I know what you mean about Jacobs, her prose style is very engaging; it just seems an amusing juxtaposition.
speaking of Dark Ages, when there is a wholesale loss of continuity in skills and knowledge: Maputo, Mozambique – A U.N. Conference on Trade and Development report on protecting traditional knowledge argues that beyond a devastating impact on culture, the death of a language wipes out centuries of know-how in preserving ecosystems – leading to grave consequences for biodiversity.
The United Nations estimates half of the world’s 6,000 languages will disappear in less than a century. Roughly a third of those are spoken in Africa and about 200 already have less than 500 speakers. Experts estimate half the world’s people now use one of just eight languages: Chinese, English, Hindi, Spanish, Russian, Arabic, Portuguese and French.

Taylorist industrial food production destroys information, diversity, knowledge: Petrini alarmingly notes that since the beginning of the twentieth century we have lost 75 percent of our agricultural products’ genetic diversity and half of our livestock breeds. Not only does this loss make us species-poor, it is, he writes, a major contributor to the “standardization of all [food] products and the flattening out of all flavors.”
Contaminating the world food supply: Syngenta admitted this week that, for over four years, it “mistakenly” sold hundreds of tons of an experimental corn seed not yet approved for human consumption […]
While chemical pollution eventually dissipates in the environment (over thousands of years), genetic pollution accelerates exponentially over time. Once GM corn gets planted, no farmer’s crops are safe because corn cross-pollinates by wind over long distances and is irreversibly inserted into plant DNA. Another study published last month by Friends of the Earth found eighty percent of 77 corn samples taken from food aid or sold in the open market in Guatemala were already contaminated by banned GM-corn.[…]

Genetic information is information — the information encoded in heirloom cultivars is the legacy of centuries or millennia of expertise and patient effort. To scribble on it wildly, without sense or restraint, is like letting an army of four-year-olds with crayolas loose in the Library of Congress. It is odd indeed that in the so-called “Information Age” so much of what we do is the destruction of information: vandalism, de-skilling, dumbing-down, destroying continuity.
I read some years ago that preserved in museums one can find hand-spun flaxen thread of a fineness that no modern spinning engine can match. The knowledge of exactly how this was achieved is now lost. Whether this astonishing artifact is morally a good or bad thing — were tens of hapless artisans locked in dark rooms for life to spin enough superfine thread for just one royal christening gown? — we might debate at length, but it reminds me that the technocratic revolution has not been all information gain. It has also been a heavy, an incalculable information loss.

Posted by: DeAnander | Apr 8 2005 1:18 utc | 43

Horowitz got hit with a pie…heh heh.
Indianapolis Star even has a photo

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2005 1:36 utc | 44

Culture of Life
Advisory notice:
“Beware Greeks bearing gifts.”

Posted by: Epicure | Apr 8 2005 1:55 utc | 45

The Goff thing is indecipherable by me. Admittedly, I’m no pro when it comes to unraveling the myriad inverse effects expected by the general movement of capital. The ‘reserve army of labor’ is hardly replaced by some more immiserated population of left behind workers. Rather, what seems to be happening is the later part of a long history of the equalization of the ‘organic composition’ of capital (the ratio of ‘constant’ or fixed capital and wages). I know the composition in ‘core’ countries is high, while low in the southern hemisphere. But, the push to universalize the production of commodities, as a promised outcome of ‘fair trade,’ will, should, have a tendency to equalize the organic composition of capital. This means lower wages for ostensive ‘1st world’ labor, and, ideally, higher standards of living for the periphery.
The equalization of organic composition of capital is dangerous for capitalists because of the vastly negative effects on the west’s working class. This is why some perceive this outcome to be a moment of possible optimism as the transparency of the great swindle of capitalism is revealed.
Time to read the theses on Fuerbach before sleepy time.

Posted by: slothrop | Apr 8 2005 2:45 utc | 46

Deanander,
I share your fascination and horror at the currently inhospitable politcal, social and cultural milieu we inhabit. And I think that Alabama and yourself are right to attribute changes in our relationships with space and time as having something to do with it. More generally, this social acceleration, I believe, stems from the overarching effects of neoliberal globalisation and the revolution in information and communication technologies-deeply interdependent processes. The effect has been a fragmentation, acceleration and commodification that colonizes every register of culture and society. The mediatised society, part of the network society is the means of distraction; a digital version of De Bord’s thesis. We see it today in the ad nausem coverage of the Pope’s demise and funeral. On radio today someone asked why is is so huge, and why, by some estimates, do 4 millions clog the streets of Rome. I seriously doubt that they are all devout and pious catholics. Many (millions of them) go to be part of the media-celebrity spectacle. Catch a glimpse of celeb-politicos such as Tony Blair, or celeb-royals from UK or wherever. It’s a graphic sign of the emptiness of people’s lives brought about by fragmentation and speed. No time for reflection only action and gratification. Transporation and communcation costs are cheap–let’s go to Rome!This summer’s rock fesival at Glastonbury, all 110,000 tickets were sold in 3 hours, and this is before the list of bands who will be appearing is published.
Politics spins out of control, because the economy that dominates and shapes its content is running at network speed, and gets faster everyday. A quote from a political scientist, Bill Scheuerman from Uiversity of Minnesota that I’ve just used in a piece I am writing:’
‘Slow-going deliberative legislatures, as well as normatively admirable visions of constitutionalism and the rule of law predicated on the quest to assure legal stability, mesh poorly with the imperatives of speed, whereas anti-liberal and anti-democratic trends benefit from it’.
Speed benefits corporations and the arbitrary rule of executive governement. Speed limits our ability to think straight and think in some depth. Speed, as Zymunt Bauman put it is ‘thought’s weakness’, and so thought becomes abbreviated. Not only does the world seem to spin out of collective or rational control, but our ability to cognize its dyamaics and actually think about ways to turn these around are being limited. Virilio can be overblown a times, but he gives nuggest of insight that can flash the imagination. he’s well worth reading (or discussing).

Posted by: theodor | Apr 8 2005 2:49 utc | 47

Anybody for a bit of financial demystification that even economic illiterates can understand from Robert Bell, Chairman of Econ. Dept. @Brooklyn College?
“Summary: The U.S. government is manipulating all major U.S. financial markets—stocks, treasuries, currencies. This article shows how it is possible and how it is done, why it is done, who specifically is doing it, when they do it, and where they get the money to do it.”
The Invisible Hand (of U.S.gov) in Financial Markets

Posted by: jj | Apr 8 2005 3:06 utc | 48

another way to put the time/space effects is Giddens’ ‘distanciation.’ control of the ‘knowledge store,’ or what Ong called the ‘noetic technology’ of communication is crucial to elite power. Elites, as the great Harold Innis famously pointed out, control economic/political life by centralizing in time and space all communications. Elizabeth Eisenstein demontrated at length how this time/space distanciation occured in the case of print.
I bring this up because I think it’s important to recognize at all times how the deployments of technologies produce anomie, impoverishment not because of some hallucinatory pomo quality of human interaction made possible by this or that media, but because such deployments are made in the strategic interests of power.
Contrary to Mcluhan and epigones, new media can be utilized to countermand the power of elites.

Posted by: slothrop | Apr 8 2005 3:14 utc | 49

I’ve asked myself that question a lot lately: has it always been this way/is it just me who has changed? or have things really worsened?
I think it may be both my gradual cultural education/enlightenment and the cultural backlash against changing ‘the way it always has been’.
Riane Eisler has some interesting things to say about the backlash reaction to cultural progress in the latter half of her book The Chalice and The Blade.

Posted by: gylangirl | Apr 8 2005 3:32 utc | 50

Whoever posted the link to Horowitz getting pied forgot to add this noteworthy part of newsfeed:
“It was the second time in a week that a conservative lecturer was hit by a pie at an Indiana university. On March 30, William Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard, was attacked during a speech at Earlham College in Richmond.”
Perhaps there’s hope for the young from Red States. Now if only they can learn to verbalize their abhorrence & translate it into political action…

Posted by: jj | Apr 8 2005 3:34 utc | 51

sounds like I’d better put Virilio on my reading list — which is currently standing at about 5 miles long 🙁 [at present, escaping reality via Neal Stephenson’s ambitious Quicksilver — junk food perhaps, but fairly good junk food. after nothing but nonfiction for almost a year, it’s kinda nice to take a break…]
I would guess that Gleick’s Faster might be relevant to the discussion of speed and anomie… I don’t remember it as particularly insightful, but definitely documentary.

Posted by: DeAnander | Apr 8 2005 3:43 utc | 52

DeA- the ebb and flow of fundamentalism here began around the time of WWI, along with the KKK and so much talk that sounds like some of the stuff coming from some Republican legislators, you’d think they were channeling, seems to me…
…and that era coincided with or was the backlash to massive shifts of power, and the fall of empires all over the place…the replacement of monarchies with republics…the rise of America as an empire (some say) with the invasion of the Phillipines…
and, one of the biggest things was the rise of mass market production. not coincidentally, the radical labor movement was quashed at the same time.
maybe, because we’re in another power shift, those reactionary forces get more vocal and try to assert their power…yet again.
It seems like we lurch forward, toward more human rights, toward more power sharing, then get knocked back by the fearful. then the changes occur anyway, and the fearful are marginalized because, if good solutions occur, the changes turn out to have benefits (and, yes, unseen consequences, as we all know with the automobile culture.)
It’s strange, though, that fundies and ecologists seem to share an apocalyptic vision…the difference is how and why this apocalypse is on the horizon. I know it’s not the first era that’s had an apocalyptic view of the fate of humans.
maybe it’s like a stopped clock that’s right twice a day?

Posted by: fauxreal | Apr 8 2005 5:06 utc | 53

De, about Quicksilver and Neal Stephenson — I met him at a book signing in NYC, that sci-fi store on Broadway in the East Village, he signed a new copy of The Diamond Age. I asked him what it was like to be a writer, to do what he does.
Of course, he answered that he got up each day and wrote. I think he said first thing in the day …
As it turns out The Diamond Age was a really good novel, I enjoyed it a lot especially the idea of bounty, what did the techies do when they knew where it came from and how to create it?
They retreated to a life of hand-made, farming and knitting and hewn log houses.
I guess at the time he was doing Wired Magazine articles and Cryptonimicon, another great yarn.
I did finish Quicksilver but found it hard slogging, although NS does follow through with his intent to teach history and science, mathematics via stories.
The idea that Newton and the rest of the academy squabbled like we do is refreshing and inspiring.
The only difference between that time and ours, apart from the genius, is the time compression when we no longer rely on (at least some of us) the pony express.
Nicely done.

Posted by: Anonymous | Apr 8 2005 5:32 utc | 54

slothrop,
You are right about information technologies and control–control, not avoidance or destruction, is key. Frantz Fanon says somewhere in an epigram that floats around the internet that:
“A community will evolve only when the people control their means of communication”.
At present we don’t; far from it, but people, millions of them including the logic that drives blogs such as this one, orient themselves towards forms of control every day, or at least are carving spaces and times of relative autonomy.
keep typing

Posted by: Theodor | Apr 8 2005 5:41 utc | 55

Yo, Theodor.

‘Fanon says somewhere in an epigram that floats around the internet that:
“A community will evolve only when the people control their means of communication”.
At present we don’t;’

Free blogs, free email. Who controls the means of communication?
If you print it out they can’t take it away from you.
You can control your means of communication.
As slothrop says, “Contrary to Mcluhan and epigones, new media can be utilized to countermand the power of elites.”
slothrop 1

Posted by: jonku | Apr 8 2005 6:26 utc | 56

jonku,
I think we agree, really, on aims and objectives. But at present the overwhelming power of neoliberal networked capitalism, oriented toward ‘efficincy’ and ‘productivity’ enslaves most of humanity in the devloped economies, and by imperial extension, people in the developing countries as well. The potenital is there as slothrop says in his quote; of course it is, but it exists on the plane of historical struggle. Neoliberalism will run its course, and at some stage its internal contradictions will force a crisis of legitimacy. It is then that the media-savviness of people as political agents will come to the fore. Right now those who consciously use the system’s tools dialectially and reflexively are laying the ground, hopefully, to be part of a movement that can then enter the historical stage with something to say and the power to act.

Posted by: Theodor | Apr 8 2005 6:47 utc | 57

DeAnander says:

after nothing but nonfiction for almost a year, it’s kinda nice to take a break…

And you wonder why you’re such a bloody pessimist? I’m betting that “Optimism for dummies” and “Seven easy ways to be dumb and happy aren’t on your non-fiction list!
Alternate between non-fiction and fiction, it’ll do wonders for your sanity.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 8 2005 9:46 utc | 58

jdp says:

Nothing is done without elites from Europe, the Us and East Asia deciding either at the CFR or the Trilat Commission.

I’m pretty certain that can’t be the case. Wouldn’t their meetings conflict with the Freemason-International Jewry Annual Picnic?
Not to mention the Illuminati Amateur Dramatics Review.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 8 2005 9:57 utc | 59

Colman, that is the dumbest thing you could have posted.
Obviously you have not studied “elite theory” because if you had you wouldn’t post something so f—ing ignorant.
Now, if you would read Holloy Sklars “Trilaterilism” you may learn something. Nothing is done without elite planning. The Trilats coordinate between three spheres of influence. East Asia, the Americas and Europe.
The CFR is the training ground for the upper reachs of nearly every governmental agency in the US, but especially the State Department, Treasury, and Pentagon. It has been that way since before WW II. Further, many CEOs of major corporations are members along with many media elite. Read their web sites members list and articles and you can pretty well predict what will happen. Fred Bergsten wrote an article about tariffs or a fight with China two months ago. He is the CFRs main economic adviser. They have decided to do something about trade. Low and behold a bill went through the US Senate stating currency munipulation will be considered unfair trade. Everything is monitored by these NGOs, policy is decided and then is pushed at the Federal level.
Jimmy Carter was the first Trilat president.
I would do some studying, and don’t hit me with that conspiracy bullshit again.

Posted by: jdp | Apr 8 2005 13:03 utc | 60

Why — why is it that so many institutions are, at this particular historical moment, suffering from such a strong restorationist/revanchist, nostalgic/authoritarian backlash? De-A.
Hum – I was also musing about 1968…and await jj’s post.
We often tend to see the reactions DeA describes so well as a return to the past, or even as a deliberate effort to re-create it. We bemoan what we see as a reversal in the hypothetical (or at least desired!) stream of progress. No doubt, many ordinary people who become hyper-religious or turn to other -isms do so in an attempt to re-gain lost certainties, hide in the confort of old ones, or refuse some unwelcome aspect of the world ‘today.’ However, moves in the -ism direction on the part of the elite or the authorities represent attempts at control and manipulation, or worse. They are part of plans for the the future.
So top and bottom feed into each other, and the -isms spiral.

Posted by: Blackie | Apr 8 2005 13:28 utc | 61

So is this the monolithic US elite or the monolithic World elite or what?
And what is “elite theory”?
Oh, and you don’t want to see the dumbest fucking thing I could post.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 8 2005 14:45 utc | 62

@jdp Gotta admit that I am at least as ignorant as Colman. “Trilaterilism” (C) Holloy Sklars.
How about a 200 word precise to enlighten us?

Posted by: DM | Apr 8 2005 14:59 utc | 63

excerpts from the book Trilateralism : The Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning for World Management by Holly Sklar
she’s quite good. i highly recommend her earlier book washington’s war on nicaragua too

Posted by: b real | Apr 8 2005 15:34 utc | 64

doh! her later book, not earlier

Posted by: b real | Apr 8 2005 15:36 utc | 65

Nothing is done without elite planning.

This would be the point I leave your company. These groups exist. These groups have powerful members. They are neither all-powerful nor all-knowing nor all-competent. Where you slip into conspiracy theory bullshit is where you suggest they are.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 8 2005 15:53 utc | 66

Any good political science class would discuss elite theory. Elite Theory is the management of economies, institutions of government and business for elite purposed. It is plutocracy.
Just type Holly Sklar or Trilateralism in google and find it. It is a series of commentary by college professors and her writing. Just type “elite theory” in and find it. It sounds funny to me you haven’t heard of it. Basically the book layed out elite plan for the future. It was planing that turned the US into a massive consumer society. They felt the 1950s and 1960s created to much democracy in the US and to much power for labor. Elites basically coopted labor elites, business and institutions and sinces the 1970s things for labor have went downhill. You keep the people happy by giving them goods, voting participation go’s down and people vote at Wal-Mart instead of the ballot box. You never see a fat revolutionary.
Other agreements and institutions such as Nafta, GATT and WTO are to protect capital and get decision making away from the democratic process. What do think Nadar complained about? And I bet that someone in Peoria didn’t think of it.
And Colman, that comment insinuates thats I am some kind of racist and conspiracy theorist. That pisses me off. You could have just asked a question instead of posting some smart ass comment.

Posted by: jdp | Apr 8 2005 16:01 utc | 67

There are almost universal truths. Usually expressed as cliches; “Money talks”. For many years, the USA was guided by rationalism and the scientific method, identified by the “East Coast Establishment”.
However, the stresses of the de-industrialization of the USA and the human isolation in suburbia have speeded the movement of the masses into evangelical cults. Also, when USA profits shifted from manufacturing goods to financial markets, a new business class of flim-flam artists arose getting their cut by constantly moving money here and there. Evangelicals and these scam artists formed the new GOP.
Into this volatile mix, the Army has just announced that it is switching to 6 month rotations in Iraq. No need for acclimatization to a combat zone now days. After spending a year in Vietnam, I cannot conceive of the stresses of being in country for six months and then six months out, over and over, again and again. A new generation of hyper Rambo’s will be born. With drugs and alcohol banned in the Army in Iraq, these walking wounded will only have nutcase wako cult religions to turn to. Into the Blue and Red Cultural Wars, will be thrown hyped up cult warriors led by unscrupulous charlatans who will never ever really be coming home from Iraq.

Posted by: Jim S | Apr 8 2005 16:59 utc | 68

Then I would suggest you just plain dont’ know what your talking about Colman. They don’t have to be competent. Elites are always bailed out. Like the S&L scandal, the latest derivatives scandal, and Brady Bonds from bad Central and South American debt.
It is not them that suffer when decisions go wrong, they just make an excuss and cover their asses. The populous pays the price.
In the book “The Irony of Democracy” by Thomas Dye and Harmon Zeigler they say elite theory go’s against the pluralist view of society. Elites go all the way to local level where the local daddy war bucks developer walks into the city council meeting and the council rolls over for him. It is just on a much larger scale on the global level.
In chapter ten a section of their book titled “Jimmy Carter: A Smile on the face of the establishment” has a paragraph “Elite Contacts.”
Quote: “Carter had been introduced to the “political and economic elite” several years before he began his race for the presidency. The Coca-Cola Company is the largest industrial corporation headquartered in Atlanta. J. Paul Austin, its chairman of the board and a friend and supporter of Jimmy Carter, nominated the Georgia governor to serve as a US representative on the international Trilateral Commission. The Trilateral Commission, established in 1972 by David Rockefeller (Chairman of the board of Chase Manhattan Bank) with assistance of the Council on Foriegn Relations and the Rockefeller Foundation, is a group of officials of multinational corporations and of the governments of several industrial nations who meet periodically to coordinate economic policy among the United States, Western Europe and Japan. Rockefeller himself appointed Carter, with support from Coca Cola and Lockheed, both Atlanta based multinational corporations. The executive director of the commission was Columbia University professor Zbigniew Brzezinski, later Carters national security advisor. The commission’s membership is a compendium of power and prestige; at that time it included the president of Califonia Institute of Technology, Harold Brown (later secretary of defence); Coca Colas J. Paul Austin; Time magazine editor Hedley Donovan; Paul Warnke, senior partner at Averell Harriman’s Wall Street investment firm; Alden Clausen, president of Bank of America, the nations largest bank; United Auto Workers president Leonard Woodcock; Bendix Corp president Werner M. Blumenthal (the first secretary of the treasury in the Carter Admin); Cyrus Vance, senior Wall Street lawyer (first secretary of state in the Carter Admin); and US Senator Walter Mondale (later vice-president of the US).
Things just aren’t the way they seem in the stary eyed world.

Posted by: jdp | Apr 8 2005 17:17 utc | 69

And Colman, that comment insinuates thats I am some kind of racist.

Hum, I suppose you could read it that way. I would consider “International Jewry” so ridiculous that I wouldn’t actually associate with any race in particular. Apologies for that impression: wasn’t intended.
As to this:

Then I would suggest you just plain dont’ know what your talking about Colman.
[….]
Things just aren’t the way they seem in the stary eyed world.

I guess that’s me put in my place then.

Posted by: Colman | Apr 8 2005 17:32 utc | 70

Billmon – thanks! (for the changed name, for those of you that did not notice my small request upthread which the barkeep has kindly granted)
Now we need Bernhard to change the post over here (he has the keys to this one)…

Posted by: Jérôme | Apr 8 2005 17:53 utc | 71

Sure, there is backscratching among the elites, and little arrangements, but a big plan to rule the world? Nah. You have big egos, who think they only deserve to meet egos just as big or people just as important, so they talk to each other, they go on holiday together, and they dine together.
My interactions with that elite have not usually impressed me that there is a big conspiracy. Individually, they are just as clueless – or smart – as we are here. They follow the common wisdom of their group, and that CW is formed much the same way as in any other group, from hearing stuff repeatedly and eventually swallowing it.
And remember, in France, we have the most explicitly organised elite.

Posted by: Jérôme | Apr 8 2005 20:03 utc | 72

There is no monolothic World Elite, there are a series of small powers (and one big power..), and a whole bunch of people who want more power than they have. The Zeitgeist, specifying, for example, that cracking down on terrorists, or of paying workers less or finding cheaper ones, or of obfuscating things in the media, of playing on emotion, etc. please them no end. Throw a few pages of the rule book away, and they will all come out and play. Some of them don’t even have any specific evil intentions, they are just playing the game as presented, fitting in, buying the mantra, wanting to be part of things, be someone – because they are also afraid of loosing, of being left behind.
The Elite (that is, media types / owners, Western pols, corporation heads, some rich royals, those who have made their mark – Kissinger comes to mind – and various hangers on who have some cards in their pockets, etc.) are just like any other social group. They have their watering holes – The Bilderberger meetings, or Davos – where they mingle and discuss and take up what the most scintillating actors said, or reverently refer to the latest views of those who have clout, and even sit still and listen quietly to boring propaganda (Before the reception!) So will reputations be made, and so does (part of) history march forward. Jerome said similar…
Those who have influence and power are always calculating the present situation in terms of the future, their position in 5 years time, growing assets, secondary goals, etc. The past interests them not at all, and they would never even contemplate seriously referring to it as positive in any way (‘Cepting those marvellous furniture makers..). Their -isms are not hankering after organic turnips, smelly horse-drawn cart, communal prayer, and a friendly neighborhood, right? That is all I meant to say…Pulls to the past, or drive to the future depend on what social group one belongs to.
The elites’ aim is to conserve their power and to grow richer, and for that you have to pro-active.
Some manipulators will be more effective than others, as in any group; some may be acting on very long-term agendas, for sure. Some may be more influential than most of us like to admit, and actually running the show, in the direction of jdp’s posts, I think. Yes. But how to correctly scope that out, I don’t know.

Posted by: Blackie | Apr 8 2005 21:30 utc | 73

Nobody says elites are one coherent group. There are fights and disagreements on policy. The best example is Dems vs Rethugs in the second rung. Dems are for diplomacy, rethugs are more willing to use force. But, they all hang in the same circles and there common themes in beliefs.
All the social issues are idol chatter. But in the second rung these issues are important because of re-election etc.
The top rung is only concerned about preserving capital and keeping the sheeple under control.

Posted by: jdp | Apr 9 2005 2:06 utc | 74

Lenin’s ghost, I agree about Reagan and Central America. The only good thing I’ll say about Reagan was that he recognized Gorbachev wanted to end the Cold War when the rest of conservative America was screaming that glasnost was all a commie plot. But otherwise, Reagan was a monster who embraced mass murderers like Rios Montt and Savimbi over in Angola. BTW, you don’t have to lecture Billmon about Reagan and Central America (he may have told you this already–I didn’t read through the thread.) I’m not sure, but I think Billmon was in Guatemala during part of the 80’s.
Pope John Paul II is a more complicated figur than Reagan. I admired him in some ways and was appalled in others. My opinion falls somewhere between Billmon’s first and second essays on him.

Posted by: Donald Johnson | Apr 9 2005 17:11 utc | 75