Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
March 1, 2005
China – Desert Threatens 400 Million People & Other Scary News

Well, after my previous post about China’s laudable attempts to develop renewable energy (see below), here’s a darker picture, still taken from the subscription part of the Financial Times: Shifting sands threaten China’s economic march

China as a whole appears to be fighting a losing battle against the shifting desert sands. According to official estimates, China’s deserts are growing by 3,500 sq km a year and now cover 18 per cent of the country. The sand threatens a further one-third of the mainland and 400m people, says Wang Xinjiang, an official from the anti-desertification office of the state forestry administration. The Asian Development Bank says accelerating desertification in China “increasingly threatens the economic welfare of the nation”. It has resulted in the loss of vast swathes of arable land, sinking ground water levels and heavily silted rivers. Mr Wang says China’s expanding deserts have direct economic costs of Rmb54bn (€4.9bn) a year. The problem is largely man-made, with logging and over-exploitation of land aggravating a natural lack of water and rainfall, leading to rapid soil erosion.

from the same article
The government’s drive to become self-sufficient in food led in the past to the cultivation of unsuitable grain crops in desert frontiers.

Critics say China’s dash for growth and rapid exploitation of natural resources has shown little regard for the environmental impact of development. Campaigners have frequently criticised the country’s massive industrial and power projects such as the Three Gorges Dam because of their impact on residents, who have at times been forcibly relocated, and the regional environment.

I am not a specialist of China, I’ve never been there, and you must be getting sick and tired of the topic.
Well, welcome to globalisation, y’know, when decisions made by others impact you also…and China has reached the point when they influence everyone and everything, and I keep bumping on articles about China this, China that on pretty much any topic, usually peppered with superlatives, breathless comments about the scale of the challenge, the growth, the … you get the point.

So here’s a round up of the most striking numbers I have collected recently:

– 30% of mercury pollution in the US (and worldwide) comes from Chinese electricity production;

– China currently consumes almost half of the world’s cement and more than 60% of construction cranes

– China already produces 13.5% (and growing) of worldwide CO2 emissions (with the same emission intensity as the US, i.e. the quantity of carbon dioxide emitted by $ of GDP). It is a signatory of the Kyoto Treaty but is exempted (as a developping country) from any effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

– China has suddenly turned into a massive importer of oil, with obvious consequences on oil prices:

China_oil_trade

Crude_correlation

– Chinese demand has caused steel prices to increase significantly in the past 2 years and continuing, with worldwide impact

– China is about to overtake Germany as the third manufacturer of cars worlwide. (Volkswagen has already been selling more cars in China than in Germany for 2 years). And yet – Chinese has ten times fewer cars than the US – for 4 times the population…

– of course, China now holds above 600 billion dollars of reserves, up more than 200 billion from a year ago, second only to Japan.

– maybe the most scary of all: 6 boys are born for every 5 girls (117:100 ratio). There are 12.7 million more boys aged under 9 than girls under 9.

the normal newborn sex proportion is 100:104-107, and if China’s disproportionate figure is allowed to continue unchecked, there would be 30 to 40 million marriage-age men who would be single all their lives by 2020.

Remember the easiest way to keep sex-starved young men busy : war, rape and pillaging.

So, are you terrified yet?

Comments

We most definitely ought to be investing in scrap-iron futures.

Posted by: alabama | Mar 2 2005 0:03 utc | 1

so, if they KNOW the desert is getting them, why is nobody planting trees ? i doubt complaining will help much.

Posted by: name | Mar 2 2005 0:49 utc | 2

[singsong] Jar-ed Dia-mond, Ja-red Dia-mond, Ja-red Dia-mond…
yep, cutting down yer trees leads to desertification. it’s that simple. you would think our terminally [and I mean it] stupid species would have figured it out by now. o.c. this is what BushCo has planned for large swathes of N America. ever seen the clearcut sides of mountains in Oregon as compared to the still-forested sides? bare dirt, bare rock, deep gullies, silted streams, sparse vegetation hanging on by its fingernails. fish population crashed, bird population crashed. watersheds silted up and choked off. non-native weeds invading with gusto. we’re working on desertifying Oregon and Washington even as we speak. but hey, it’s OK, we’re going to launch missions into space and come back with fresh water, and live fish, and biotically rich topsoil — right?
seen the “Mediterranean landscape”? deforested a couple of millennia back, now you can’t keep much on it but goats, who do their own additional damage. how about N Africa? whither the “cedars of Lebanon”? whither the vast fields of grain that once fed the Legions and the Mob of Rome? Mesopotamia, once a valley of gardens, breadbasket of an empire… deforested. desertified. it seems to be the one lasting achievement of human “civilisation” — wherever we thrive we leave a desert behind us. si monumentum requiris…
they are planting trees in China, or trying to. but once you’ve let the desert get a good start, planting it back is hella harder than destroying the forest in the first place (rule number two of human stupidity: fixing it is always harder and more expensive and takes longer than damaging it).
and of course climate change erodes your stored water in the form of ice cap and glacier, so there is even less summer water and the water table is lower, and this plus warmer temps help to kill off the bigger tree species, and… losing your tree cover exacerbates the effects of climate change locally, and… well you get the picture: synergistic failure. like what happens when major subsystems of a living body start to fail: the cascade effect.
I hope and pray the Chinese — by communitarian or authoritarian means, or by mios of John and Jane Appleseeds among the people, whatever, however — manage to restore their tree cover and roll back the desert before they have to conquer the world just to get enough arable land to feed the people. if the US aims to conquer the world just to get cheap gas for its stupid consumer toys, imagine the depth of motivation when the need is a real, pressing, undeniable desperate one: food. staple grains.
sorry, I am rabbitting on again and doubtless boring everyone with the Bloody Obvious. it’s just a side effect of living in the Most Clueless Goddamn Nation On Earth. it makes a person start raving at strangers on bus station benches, and like that. N Am does not yet look like China. but on our present path it will, it will. only a matter of time.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 2 2005 1:33 utc | 3

Interesting review of Chinese geostrategies for meeting enegy needs.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 1:40 utc | 4

Sorry this should have been linked to “BushCo” above. my bad. was waving my hands too frantically to remember to paste in the url.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 2 2005 1:50 utc | 5

@slothrop “energy-friendly technologies” eh? [quote fom article you linked] this makes me veer off and wonder, at what point are we going to sit down and make the crucial distinction between life-friendly technologies and death-friendly technologies?
it is the only distinction that matters in the long run. yeah, yeah, I know what Keynes said. but we’ll all be dead a whole lot sooner if we continue to devote ourselves with such slavering lust to death-friendly technologies. imho.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 2 2005 1:53 utc | 6

deanander
I’m going to read some of those books. thanks.
When you think of it, Modernity is all about getting rid of the body. If you consider the core eschatology of the control over nature/dominion is also the control of humans over humans, also known as “dialectic of modernity,” then freedom can only be finally expressible as the end of the body (Deleuze: stop the “shit-flows”).
So, our demise is reified, inevitable. And the task to undo Modernity is tough. Though, a good start might be to plant a tree.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 2:13 utc | 7

DeAnander: I love your posts…please don’t hold back. I usually agree with them (or most of them) but you express these ideas much more eloquently than I have the capacity to do.

Posted by: Maxcrat | Mar 2 2005 2:21 utc | 8

deanander…..ramble on. me learn

Posted by: lenin’s ghost | Mar 2 2005 3:03 utc | 9

DeA-
” “energy-friendly technologies” eh? [quote fom article you linked] this makes me veer off and wonder, at what point are we going to sit down and make the crucial distinction between life-friendly technologies and death-friendly technologies?”
I’m not yet convinced that 1) it’s always obvious in advance – even if they wanted to look. Consider a trivial technology such as aerosols. Who could have imagined they would have such serious consequences in the upper atmosphere. Living Systems, in mathematical terms, are countably infinite in their complexity, so even w/the best of intentions, it’s impossible to know in advance, particularly since damage can be cumulative over long periods & hard to detect. By the time it’s detected & really verified, there’s so much “momentum”/profit, industrial inertia built into the system, that it takes awhile to switch to a new technology.
Or consider the “Green Revolution”, introduced w/the hope of feeding more people; pesticides took decades from their inital introduction to unmask.
And (2), I’m starting to think the difference bet. life-friendly & death-friendly is one of scale. If the earth had 5 million people & one nuclear power plant, it wouldn’t be that catastrophic a problem. Or if 5 million people used aerosols. Conversely, given that we’ve already exceeded the carrying capacity of the earth & China is just starting to industrialize, drive cars etc., I suspect that if every car on the planet were switched to hydrogen energy which excretes “only water”, that much water excreted into the biosphere would radically alter it in a short period of time.
(Parenthetically, I think China will become dangerous no matter what technology they introduce ‘cuz of the scale of their population. The problem is “meta” – The Toxin is Introducing Bourgeouis Individualism to a population of 1 Billion. I don’t see how it can bode anything but Civil War & very nasty aggressive external policies.)
In other words, I think industrial production is itself the problem. We cannot overload an ecosystem w/anything w/out it becoming toxic – obviously, the amounts of that vary depending on the inherent toxicity of the substance & the nature of the ecosystem in question.
(Consider, on a trivial level, the ex. of the Fraternity pledge, somewhere in the Central Valley of Calif. who died recently after being forced – apparently, in some initiation ritual – to drink 5 gal. of water in an evening. A touch or arsenic would have overloaded his system; for something benign like water it takes much more, but anything outside the limits of the system is toxic. Frat. boys thght. they were good substituting water for booze, but it’s also the extreme stage of the Spectacle that’s the problem.)
I don’t think that lesson has been learned, so I expect they’ll keep on creating disasters.

Posted by: jj | Mar 2 2005 3:52 utc | 10

Ought to send Bush over there. He’d straighten things out.

Posted by: Groucho | Mar 2 2005 4:46 utc | 11

Jean Paul Sartre used Chinese deforestation as an example of praxis, practico-inert and counter-finality in his Critique of Dialectical Reason, way back when I was a pup.
Of course when he wrote it he was high on crank and thought he was being followed by a big lobster. Good thing he could see around corners.

Posted by: biklett | Mar 2 2005 4:54 utc | 12

@jj insightful and challenging… I think I’ll go out on a limb though and say that 5 mio people and one nuke plant is an impossible scenario. perhaps this is even axiomatic. let’s see if I can defend the position…
with only 5 mio people I don’t think you’d have the industrial infrastructure to build one nuke plant. and besides, there’s no such thing as one nuke plant any more than there is one car, or one cockroach 🙂 it’s the expression of a technology that requires and implies mass production. you don’t have a nuke plant without, oh, the hardened alloy tubing, the yellowcake mining and long haul transport… like any artifact of a culture it carries with it a long chain of implications about tooling, knowledge, organisation. the nuke plant is a consummate expression of Taylorism and industrialism, to such an extent that I really don’t think you can have just one.
it also carries implications about labour relations — yellowcake mining is so toxic that you just know the people basking in the happy electric light from the nuke plant are not the ones toiling in the carcinogenic dust or living near the tailings, drinking water contaminated by the mining process. mining generally carries this implication — it’s no coincidence that the great metallurgical cultures were slave-owning cultures imho. if you have mines you have slaves. until you get to the industrial revolution and the labour movement, and even then the slavery just moves further out towards the periphery and changes its name. S African gold and diamond mining is done by a semi-slave labour force — legally “free” perhaps but indentured by all the traditional capitalist tricks and ploys.
and then there’s the origin of the nuke industry — like the pesticide industry it is an attempt to “civilianise” a death technology, a technology of murder — nerve gas in the one case and the atomic bomb in the other. so many technologies gain the ascendancy in this way — there’s a glut of something, and someone whose career or fortune is invested in the overproduced item looks around and says, “Quick, boys, let’s figure out something to do with this stuff so we can keep the business going.” I’m gonna go further out on that limb and say if it were not for the Manhattan Project we wouldn’t have a nuke industry. it was “atoms for peace” and the need to cover up the shame of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with a big happy-face (plus a gleam in the eye of the fledgling nuke experts and potential investors) that kick-started this whole dead end technology.
I can think of three examples off top of head and there are zillions more. one — popularising air travel, the aircraft industry: a spinoff of WWII aircraft overproduction, to keep the aircraft mfrs rolling. two — the prevalence of corn syrup in the American diet: a spinoff of a corn glut in the early “green revolution” days. three: DU munitions: a spinoff of the embarrassing accumulation of nuclear waste (“hey boys, let’s think of something lucrative we can do with this stuff.”) a lot of ascendant technologies are not much more than cleverer version of Pet Rocks — no one really needed them, but someone had a surplus of something they needed to sell. .. the curse of industrial capitalism is overproduction…
I do have to concur however that immoderation is inherently toxic. and what does that say about the hyperconsumer, hypercapitalist culture in which moderation/restraint is heretical and excess is doctrine?
and [grin] don’t get me started on “hydrogen energy” and the byproduct being “only water.” just tell me how you’re gonna generate and store the hydrogen 🙂 if I go there I’m gonna get splinters from jumping up and down on my soapbox.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 2 2005 5:17 utc | 13

DeA, Glad you’re around to discuss this. I’m not sure that I made my point well. I pulled those numbers out of thin air – 5mil people & a nuke plant v. large number of people all driving cars excreting water. The point of throwing in the nuke plant, which obviously 5 mil. people couldn’t produce, was to say that when the population is so small that the demands on the totality of the biosphere are infinitessimal, you can excrete the most toxic substances known to humans & the planet can absorb it & recover. Conversely, when you’re basically at or beyond the carrying capacity of the planet, such that the biosphere is stretched to the breaking point, even the most benign of substances produced in corresponding quantities will, or might be toxic.
My 2nd point, that I’d enjoy hearing yr. thoughts on, are the nasty problem of knowing in advance. Often it’s possible, but often it’s not. (That’s not unrelated to the above problem – of scale – again “10 cans of ozone don’t matter.)
Ahhhhhh, so the obvious solution is eliminate the Middle Classes, reduce 99% of the planet to “peasants” scratching out subsistence existence & only let the “worthy 1% consume”. Happily, for us this argument has been shown utterly fallacious throughout the 3rd World, as desperation produces complete destruction of everything from both ignorance & necessity! Meanwhile the woman haters of the radical right are trying to outlaw abortion????Insane on the face of it – everyone should be screaming 2,3 many abortions!! (Yes, I know it’s really about male control of women & fear of sex.)
Also, do you agree w/my thghts. on “meta” problem of introducing bourgeouis individualism into hugely populated China? I don’t see how it cannot produce a mega-disaster.

Posted by: jj | Mar 2 2005 5:46 utc | 14

DeA – French (and I think European) forests are 40% bigger (in terms of land they cover) than a century ago. What do you make of that?

Posted by: Jérôme | Mar 2 2005 7:02 utc | 15

@ Jérôme: Actually, many of the forests in the northeastern U.S. are growing again, too, although I don’t know what the relative sizes are. (Farmers moved on to the midwest, which was easier to farm, and the farmland has turned back into forest. I think there’s an essay in Bill Bryson’s book I’m a Stranger Here Myself that talks about it.)

In general, I feel some curiously inverted optimism about the future. Not pessimism—I don’t think the worst-case scenario is going to happen. Instead, I think something almost as bad, but different is going to happen. There are just too many things we don’t know, as pointed out above. Something really, really bad is obviously going to happen soon, but I’d almost be willing to bet money that it will be something that will blindside us, at least in part. Maybe a relatively minor disaster (is there such a thing?) will suddenly develop major proportions, or maybe something completely new will appear.

Speaking of unknown ecological consequences: human beings evolved without the presence of lead, which is why lead is toxic to us. Thanks to leaded gasoline, the level of lead in the atmosphere is now several hundred ppm, as I recall. Lead is, to be specific, a neurotoxin. Does anyone know if anyone has produced any theories connecting atmospheric lead to a decline in public reasoning capability during the 20th century? It’s something I have wondered about for a while, but have no data on.

Posted by: Blind Misery | Mar 2 2005 8:06 utc | 16

I once read that one of the reasons for the fall of the Roman Empire was lead poisoning. Seems the glazing for their tableware had lots of lead in them. Might have affected their brain. Lead acumulates in the bones and like mercury is difficult to remove from the body. Lead as such is not one of the most toxic metals, but as it accumulates it can reach toxic levels. Unfortunately lead is especially problematic for children who are more sensitive to lead. As Blind Misery mentioned it is a neurotoxin and one of its most common symtoms are abnormal brain and nerve function. So, I guess – abnormal brain function through high lead levels might have been an additional reason for the fall of the Roman Empire.

Posted by: Fran | Mar 2 2005 8:38 utc | 17

Fran – it was also the water piping that was full of lead. This is also still a problem in some older housing in our countries, when 19th century piping (with lead) has not been replaced.
BM – I can believe that scenario of something that will blindside us.
The economist had a cover a few years back on meteorite strike, whereby they said, only half tongue in cheek, that it would make sense to start investing (as insurance) in a system to detect, and then deviate, any incoming meteor, as the cost of that was lower than the expected damage of a strike multiplied by its statistical probability…
At least, an “outside” event of that kind would give an opportunity for the whole planet to unite “against” it; any thing we create ourselves is less likely to generate solidarity as the blame game will be strident (provided that there are still enough of “us” to blame anyone)
I’ve contributed to it with my posts, but I am not gloomy myself, mush less than DeAnander or others. I do believe that we are playing with fire, but I am not convinced (i) that we won’t adapt to new circumstances when forced to do so (it would be easier to anticipate but that does not make it impossible to adapt, post hoc) and (ii) that any irreversible crisis in under way. We’ll see.

Posted by: Jérôme | Mar 2 2005 9:16 utc | 18

Lead poisoning dooming Rome is bogus. If it did them in, they would’ve collapsed in a generation, not over 3 centuries. There were many reasons, like plague, economic blindness that made them waste their gold to buy luxury from the East, Christianism as official religion – which turned off all the non-Christian provinces which saw no reason to fight for an empire that considered them as Evil heathens -, external threats, and occasionally some bits of lighter climate changes that didn’t help – when you use rivers as your borders, you’re screwed when the rivers freeze overnight. I’d also add that the tendency to keep the hereditary system was a big factor, though there was no basis at all for the Empire to be hereditary, even at the time of Tiberius.
Like DeA, I thought of good old prof. Diamond. Not that I had to wait for his books to know about the nefarious and usually suicidal tendencies of overpopulation leading to massive deforestation. But the recent news like that one about China losing 3.500 sq km a year, the 30.000 sq km of forest cut out each year, and the latest scenarios about global warming, I’m thinking it’s time I seriously downsize my own estimates about the load capacity (for human population) of the Earth in 2100.
jj: as I said before, this won’t work. You can’t have a wealthy elite polluting like filthy pigs and using billions of slaves living in medieval conditions. That’ll still be too many humans living off the land – and when people will realise the party is over, there’ll be plenty who will want revenge and will take out as many people, including the rich, with them. In fact, even if US was the only country on Earth without the other 6 bio people, given the current pollution and waste levels, I wouldn’t bet on mankind’s survival, and it may already be too much to avoid some big environemntal changes (that is, global-scale disasters).
Right now, I don’t think we’re gonna be able to avoid massive worldwide policy changes if mankind is to survive; these would include a reduction of current level of energy consumption from the industrialised world, and an overall massive reduction of population (which goes not only for 3rd world but also for industrialised nations – for instance, it’s pretty obvious that cities of 20 mio people like Tokyo and NYC aren’t sustainable).

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 2 2005 9:47 utc | 19

Philippines, China agree to settle dispute in South China Sea

BEIJING : The Philippines said Wednesday that a dispute with China over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea has been settled and the two sides will work together to exploit the region’s oil deposits.

Reforestation Halts Desert
China plans record-breaking reforestation (2002)

Posted by: b | Mar 2 2005 12:18 utc | 20

Gee, when some of you guys get on your soapbox about “depopulation” you are a bit scary.
The population will always be at a “sustainable” level. If we have come from 1 billion in 1804 to 6 billion in 1999, it’s maybe because we have being doing some things right. What do you want? Disease, war, pestilence and mass starvation?
It seems that I have a choice between rich elitists and bohemian elitists. Carrying capacity of the planet, indeed.
Hey, we can’t even work out simple problems, like how the fuck a moron like GW Bush gets away with murder, or how a 47 storey steel framed building can come crashing to the ground due to small fires; yet you are all so damned sure that you know enough to proclaim that we are all doomed because of our nefarious deed of overpopulating.
Well, fuck your ecology. If the ecology can’t sustain the people on this planet, then we can all go together. Not unless there are a few volunteers among you who would like to alleviate the pressure? Or maybe something a bit more positive, like how we can increase energy use and minimise damage.
While you are all wilting in you angst about the world’s population, most people in the world are working toward the betterment of their lives. You have decreed that this is not in the best interests of the ecology?

Posted by: DM | Mar 2 2005 12:43 utc | 21

One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.

Posted by: Uncle Joe | Mar 2 2005 13:11 utc | 22

DM, I had something violent along those lines written and ready to post an hour ago and I killed it. I’m sort of getting tired of arguing with ideologues and prophets of doom on the left or the right: they’re not reality based.
You cannot break the biosphere, only change it. Not even humanity will be destroyed. It’s living conditions may be radically changed, but that’s all. (Well, short of a 100% freeze over or massive impact event)
We need to cut our pollution massively, we need to reduce our energy usage massively, we need to find new ways of doing things. We need to understand problems and find solutions to them rather than making up imaginary problems and complaining about how insoluble they are.
As for carrying capacity of the planet, we’ve been consistently wrong about that for hundreds of years. What makes you think you have it right now?

Posted by: Colman | Mar 2 2005 13:39 utc | 23

Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague.

Posted by: Smith | Mar 2 2005 14:05 utc | 24

Oh, not Matrix quotes. Anything but that babble. Please.

Posted by: Colman | Mar 2 2005 14:08 utc | 25

I think primitive Africans and North Americans did just fine with equilibrium Smith. I was a new race from somewhere around Mesopotamia that expanded westward in a conquer-all frame of mind.
Just a small complaint on your broad generalisation.

Posted by: rapt | Mar 2 2005 14:37 utc | 26

Dear Hearts,
The point is, they ain’t no such thing as a free lunch – in fact, they ain’t no free breakfast, supper or dessert.
Everything has a cost – everything has a price, either in human suffering or enviromental deprivation – the trick is to push the suffering onto other (preferably foreign and/or sub-human) slobs or future generations…
The big lie is that, when a problem occurs, Big Daddy and Mommy with their Hi-Tech Wizard Thing-muh-jub can fix it.
It doesn’t matter if the problem is the ozone, desert, melting ice caps or melting bank accounts — We Can Fix It – so, go back and sit on your couch, munch some crispy crunchies and watch a Reality Show until it’s time to go to work flipping burgers or something…
Sounds like I’m turning into a goddam Luddite or sumthin’ – but, I’m not – we need the technology now to clean up the fuggin mess.

Posted by: Chuck Cliff | Mar 2 2005 15:08 utc | 27

colman, DM
As for carrying capacity of the planet, we’ve been consistently wrong about that for hundreds of years. What makes you think you have it right now?
Alabama and others know more than me for sure about how this idea played out culturally. I’d say the Modernist imagination for resource depletion is fairly new. I’m sure there are anomalies, but the ‘naturalist’ writers, for example, norris, dreiser, the “yellow wallpaper,” etc. gives some clues. The ‘naturalist logic’ was the power of the market to deliver subject positions to occupy, where the ‘idea of money’ transubstantiated the very possibility of being a person. Those old writers, like d.h. lawrence, could estrange himself in psychic exile from his origins as a collier’s son because of the luxury of doing so made possible by capitalism. Lawrence’s Taos exile a testament to the success of capitalism rather than its failure: the luxury not to go home again is such because the potential for so much subjective ‘positioning’ is purchasable in the marketplace of goods and ideas. Thre’s a really nicely written “new historicist” book Michaels, Walter Benn. (1987). The Gold Standard & the Logic of Naturalism that explains why colman, DM and others doubt “carrying capacity.” They refuse to think, perhaps none of us can think, beyond a social totality defined by commodity fetishism–the capacity for production is infinite it seems. Read Bataille. seems to me he says the same thing.
Now, I’m pretty sure Michael’s new historicism would condemn deanander’s informed dystopianism as an effect of the productive capacities of capital. I think this would be the wrong assessment. To think the totality of capital is the only strategy left to us to change history–an inertia that is bleak, to be sure, but necessary, because even if wrong, this catastrophist vision is the only rhetoric available to challenge the demonstrable bullshit of capitalism and reconcile humans w/ nature even if we do not know what this looks like. Anything less is panglossian.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 16:43 utc | 28

Put one more way: thinking against, but within, a social totality defined by capital, is not necessarily always an opportunity merely availed by capitalism to us whiny leftists.
Seems to me, too much vestigial social relations (“gift economy”) and non-economic values (altruism) puncture the bubble of totality and let some light through. If seemingly excessive “alarmism” is needed to motivate people to oppose this totality, and if the momentary use of somebody like leo strauss as strawman for the left occurs, well, so be it.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 17:01 utc | 29

make a strawman out of strauss to do battle w/ straussians who have misread the master.
There. better.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 17:11 utc | 30

inserts scene into thread from Annie Hall
MOTHER: (To the doctor) He’s been depressed. All off a sudden, he can’t do anything.
DOCTOR: (Nodding) Why are you depressed, Alvy?
MOTHER: (Nudging Alvy) Tell Dr. Flicker.
(Young Alvy sits, his head down. His mother answers for him)
It’s something he read.
DOCTOR: (Puffing on his cigarette and nodding) Something he read, huh?
ALVY: (His head still down) The universe is expanding.
DOCTOR: The universe is expanding?
ALVY: (Looking up at the doctor) Well, the universe is everything, and if it’s expanding, someday it will break apart and that would be the end of everything!
Disgusted, his mother looks at him.
MOTHER: (shouting) What is that your business? (she turns back to the doctor) He stopped doing his homework.
ALVY: What’s the point?

Posted by: b real | Mar 2 2005 17:19 utc | 31

Now, what was I saying about ideologues? They don’t speak English, they sure as hell don’t read it. I don’t even know why I bother replying. Mind you, they seem to be experts on strawmen.
Nothing I said had *anything* to do with capitalism or commodity fetishes. It neither suggested nor endorsed any particular “carrying capacity” nor did it deny that there must be finite limits to population. The question is: are we anywhere near those finite limits yet?

Posted by: Colman | Mar 2 2005 17:49 utc | 32

Excerpt: (…) “ The consequence is, that in comparison of what then was, there are remaining only the bones of the wasted body, as they may be called, as in the case of small islands, all the richer and softer parts of the soil having fallen away, and the mere skeleton of the land being left. But in the primitive state of the country, its mountains were high hills covered with soil, and the plains, as they are termed by us, of Phelleus were full of rich earth, and there was abundance of wood in the mountains. Of this last the traces still remain, for although some of the mountains now only afford sustenance to bees, not so very long ago there were still to be seen roofs of timber cut from trees growing there, which were of a size sufficient to cover the largest houses; and there were many other high trees, cultivated by man and bearing abundance of food for cattle. Moreover, the land reaped the benefit of the annual rainfall, not as now losing the water which flows off the bare earth into the sea, but, having an abundant supply in all places, and receiving it into herself and treasuring it up in the close clay soil, it let off into the hollows the streams which it absorbed from the heights, providing everywhere abundant fountains and rivers, of which there may still be observed sacred memorials in places where fountains once existed; and this proves the truth of what I am saying.”
Plato (Critias), 360 B.C.
MITclassics

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 2 2005 18:02 utc | 33

It is interesting that China and India have learned how to tap their vast resources of labor for industrial and high tech application faster than natural resources can be supplied to accommodate the increased capacity.
As the neo-cons try to control the world’s resources such as oil, will the BRIC countries end up controlling the industries and labor?
It is not unreasonable- The factories and code-shops that moved offshore cannot be quickly restarted in the US, no matter how low the dollar falls.

Posted by: biklett | Mar 2 2005 18:07 utc | 34

colman
What I’m saying is your very question “are we there yet” is something that can always be asked. The answer is always “no” because the question is asked by someone (anyone, me too) whose consciousness is already occupied by consumerism.
Colman, I didn’t mean to suggest I know something you do not. I was merely trying to justify the catastrophism of the posts above as a kind of rhetoric necessary to inspire movement out of this prevailing consciousness and toward another form of life mostly incomprehensible to us now.
I apologize if what I’m trying to do here seems overyly “intellectual.” So far are we from reconciliation w/ nature a form of life so reconciled is barely imaginable. Trying to explain this is enormously difficult. I tried.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 18:07 utc | 35

What is “reconciliation with nature”? We are a part of nature, as much as anything else on this ball of dirt.

Posted by: Colman | Mar 2 2005 18:18 utc | 36

blackie
ok. good one. hmmmm…
I think the ancients reconciliation w/ nature and consciousness is incomparable to modernity and problems facing us.
This stuff makes my headspin. many much smarter people than me have tried to figure this out, like heidegger’s writings on technology. and adorno.
sheesh.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 18:19 utc | 37

colman
the frankfurt philosophers talk about reconciliation of nature as a modern problem: the instrumental domination of nature=domination of “man over man.” As a result, nature and humanity become alien objects marked for endless exploitation (“standing-reserve” heidegger calls it). The normative angle to this philosophy is reconciliation unachievable by technology. What we know as the “subject” is merely the product of this calamity. But, wow, difficult to think otherwise! Benjamin believed only art can rejoin us w/ nature/objectivity.
I’m presently trying to figure this shit out. very difficult philosophy; for me, anyway.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 18:31 utc | 38

Many billions people are surviving now, though many die horribly and needlessly — child deaths due to lack of clean water, cheap immunization, proper food, pollution, DU, etc.; adult deaths caused by war, starvation, preventable diseases, sadism..
Carrying capacity is in the eye of the beholder; it has to be measured against some standard. Carry whom, how, at what cost to others? What is an acceptable life expectancy stat? What is a bearable infant mortality rate? How does one chart and define conditions of life? The earth carries animals and plants, as well: what kind of bio-diversity is necessary for human life (adopting a purely selfish pov, and setting aside the suffering of baby seals?)
If one had answers to those questions, some reality based (!) considerations about carrying capacity might be attempted.
Could one say, the life an an Iraqi is worth X, and the life…etc…

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 2 2005 18:59 utc | 39

blackie
a cost-benefit analysis is an effect of the unreconciled consciousness. The reconciliation of humans w/ nature would not require this calculus.
as for whether ancient greeks were reconciled in this way, I’m inclinbed to say yes. but, your plato quote undeniably complicates the issue.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 2 2005 19:17 utc | 40

@colman [grin] really, read Diamond’s latest. it is always inconceivable to the denizens of any empire, anywhere, any time, that a collapse is imminent. Because the collapse always occurs at the peak of “power” — i.e. peak of population, peak of resource extraction and consumption. Empires and cultures have exceeded the carrying capacity of their habitat over and over again, and their denizens have been wrong every time in their optimism and faith in the rightness and success and invulnerability of their complex, rich, rewarding and fascinating cultures.
Are we near our limits? agree with slothrop that the received answer is always “no” — even in a time before capitalism — because the intellectual discourse of a complex culture is controlled by the elites, and the elites believe in their power. And their power is at its historic maximum just at the moment when their culture approaches its limits.
What Colman doesn’t seem to understand is that we prophets of Doom — this one anyway — don’t want these awful things to happen. My personal attitude is that of someone watching a train wreck in slo-mo. Desperate to do something to stop it. Apparently powerless to do anything. Surrounded by people jumping up and down and cheering with excitement because the train is so powerful and going so fast and it’s such a Fuuuuuuun Riiiiiiide! Also of course, I’m on the train too so it’s kinda personal as well 🙁
Those who decry the pessimism of a “dystopian vision” forget that for billions on this planet, the dystopia is already real and accelerating in intensity. They want very much to better their lives, indeed — but their lives are worsening daily. In many cases this worsening is a direct result of environmental mismanagement — sometimes resulting from excessive population density compared to habitat carrying capacity, sometimes resulting from excessive foreign extractive activities blighting the local carrying capacity, sometimes from usurpation of resources by a wasteful local elite… and so on. As Diamond writes:

“Environmenal concerns are a luxury affordable just by affluent First World yuppies, who have no business telling desperate Third World citizens what they should be doing.” This view is one that I have heard mainly from affluent First World yuppies lacking experience of the Third World. In all my experience of Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, East Africa, Peru and other Third World countries with growing environmental problems and populations, I have been impressed that their people know very well that they are being harmed by population growth, deforestation, overfishing and other problems. They know it because they immediately pay the penalty, in forms such as loss of free timber for their houses, massive soil erosion, and (the tragic complaint that I hear incessantly) their inability to afford clothes, books, and school fees for their children. The reason why the forest behind their village is nevertheless being logged is usually either that a corrupt government has ordered it logged over their often-violent protest, or else that they signed a logging lease with great reluctance because they saw no other way to get the money needed next year for their children. My best friends in the Third World, with families of 4 to 8 children, lament that they have heard of the benign forms of contraception widespread in the First World, and they want those measures desperately for themselves, but they can’t afford or obtain them, due in part to the refusal of the US government to fund family planning in its foreign aid programs.
Another view that is widespread among affluent First World people, but which they will rarely express openly, is that they themselves are managing just fine at carrying on with their lifestyles despite all these environmental problems, which don’t really concern them because the problems fall mainly on Third World people (though it is not politically correct to be so blunt).

There’s an intersection between sheer numbers and hyperconsumption. “Reducing numbers” is not necessarily a cure-all. On average a child born in the USA consumes, let’s say, about 17x [in that ballpark somewhere] as much resources over a lifetime as a child born in Bangladesh. A family in the USA, in other words, doesn’t get to point the finger at a Bangladeshi family and say “too many kids” until the Bangladeshis have 17 kids for every one that the US family has. At US consumption levels, one kid may be too many. The question is not so much “are we near our limits” as “how would we have to live to sustain our current numbers (or greater)? and how far are we from living in such a way?” Presently we “sustain” our current numbers by allowing some 30,000 people per diem to die of malnutrition and/or exposure, and by stripmining planetary resources at an ever-increasing rate. And the gap between how we (the elite) are actually living and how we would have to live if we wanted any justice or any comforts for the rest of humanity, is fairly wide. Nor are we eager to narrow it; in just about every country, the gap between wealth and poverty is widening and the number of people “on the top” is shrinking.
We can imagine scenarios where we engineer our society for one goal only: the maintenance of the very largest population possible within planetary resource limits. There are at least two models for this — a tiny elite living off vast slave populations, or a rigorous totalitarian “egalitarianism” (never has been such a thing, but this is theory so we can speculate) in which everyone shares the same highly constrained lifestyle. I don’t think any of us would enjoy living in such a society (China is only a pale preview of the kind of authoritarianism it would require). John Varley explored this theme in his weird and comic Tuf Voyaging, with the allegory of the S’uthlamese.
The question of how many humans the planet can support, with what quality of life, is an urgent one. For those of us who belong to the planetary elite — and that includes by definition everyone with access to this blog I should think — the question is a morally urgent one. For the other 90 percent of the people on earth, it’s even more urgent — a question of survival, dignity, basic freedoms. We don’t “all go together” by any means. The only reason some of us can afford to say “f**k your ecology” is because we belong to the elite who — as JD reminds us — always starve last…
And Colman, off the subject, I’ve been wondering too about those 2 or 3 high rises that have burned to the frame in the last few years, without falling down 🙂

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 2 2005 19:20 utc | 41

Sorry I seem to have merged Colman’s and DM’s comments in my brain while responding, so my latest should have been @DM, @Colman, not to Colman alone. my bad.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 2 2005 19:23 utc | 42

Jerome wrote : DeA – French (and I think European) forests are 40% bigger (in terms of land they cover) than a century ago. What do you make of that?
I’m not sure, but I think in CH it is even more. We will soon be hacking our way thru the undergrowth with machetes. (No kidding.) Laws of 1910, 1920 protecting forests. Yes.
What really took place is that small farms, practising difficult, inhospitable agriculture were given up, both in the plains and in the mountains, or on the slopes. Small villages, with their patchwork of tilled and managed land, died out. Agriculture around the towns (in suburbia, or further off) was protected by laws but eventually gave in to the cement crew. Distant field were left fallow. Mountain husbandry, etc. was given up. Now, cows only come down the mountain for Chinese tourists, bells ringing, used to the flash cameras, quietly mooing, they toss their heads. They walk down asphalt roads that are, for the tramp, blocked to cars by police.
A concentration took place: urban space grew a bit and became more dense, and the countryside died, became de-populated. Tomatoes come from Spain or Holland, cabbages from Germany, etc.
All the available empty space was returned to forest, partly voluntarily (what else to do?), partly thru neglect – therefore the machetes.
Now, the Swiss are going to cut and exploit the wood. A brisk trade in building out of wood, exporting it, is getting going.

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 2 2005 20:11 utc | 43

slothrop wrote: a cost-benefit analysis is an effect of the unreconciled consciousness. The reconciliation of humans w/ nature would not require this calculus.
Ideally, yes.
Accountants, CEO’s and your busy benchmarkers cannot measure happiness, nor account for the destiny of souls, nor tell us how to grow food, nor, ultimately, do any of them care about best policy I reckon.
Nevertheless, chat about carrying capacity cannot just be a Roscharch test of people’s sensitivity to doom or the need for pop. control; some principles, measures, etc. have to bet set forth before frothing at the mouth can have an impact. Hopefully, some accounting (such as various UN orgs. try to do) would force people to admit that they implicitly adhere to discriminatory criteria… vain hope
Without a general framework, all is fuzz….that is all I was trying to say. Not very profound slothtrop, 🙂

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 2 2005 20:47 utc | 44

@DeAnander
… off the subject, I’ve been wondering too about those 2 or 3 high rises that have burned to the frame in the last few years, without falling down 🙂
Other Fires

Posted by: DM | Mar 2 2005 23:26 utc | 45

Forests: Indeed, European forests are now larger than they were in 13th century, overall, which is kind of ironical if you look at the heavy and symbolic presence of forests in medieval literature (and of course all the D/D and RPG trend of the last 30 years has only reinforced the impression that Middle Ages was really about a few towns and hamlets lost in a sea of trees).
As Blackie said, with industrialisation and even more during 20th century, the less efficient areas were abandoned, notably hilly and mountainous areas, and forests increased.
Another interesting feature, and probably the only one that may seems like a glimpse of hope in the abyss of past collapsed civilizations is that in some cases forests overtook the whole land in a few centuries (Mayan cities and Khmer empire of Angkor Vat). Though it’s obvious that you need some specific conditions for this rejuvenation to happen, notably a wet and rainy climate, large expanses of forests on the outskirt of the empire from where woods can invade (which won’t happen in, say, Madagascar or modern-day Indonesia), and for the failed society’s citizens to basically leave the area en masse.
Chinese gender ratio at birth: This is dangerous stuff. Thankfully, the males die sooner and in greater number than the females, even in childhood. Basically, the ratio is overall around 105 m for 100 f, and even in early teens there’s already parity if not majority of females. The current trend where females live older than male isn’t only due to different ways of life but apparently to deeper genetic reasons (and apparently these reasons led to mankind to be genetically hardwired to produce a little bit more boys than girls). In fact (but to be sure I should dig old papers from demographic courses years ago), the ratio is even bigger at conception – at least it’s what seemed to be noticed when looking at several months old fetuses. But the Chinese ratio is abnormal to the point that it’s clear that they do a lot of abortions when the tests show it’ll be a girl – and other infanticides of born girls. Having 30 mio more 0-9 Chinese boys won’t make 30 mio disaffected single Chinese yound adults, rather 20-25, but it may still be an issue. The concentration of single-child in families may also lead to trouble – when 4 grandparents and 2 parents only have one child to focus on, this one may well be a bit too spoiled. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Chinese generation ends up being far more indiviualist than the past ones.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 3 2005 0:11 utc | 46

this is an Polyannish underestimate imho but a start, a start…
Beijing – Growth in China’s economy would be cut by two percentage points if the cost of the country’s explosive growth on its environment and natural resources was included, the China Daily said on Tuesday.
The toll would be taken into account in assessments of gross domestic product in 10 cities and provinces as part of an experimental campaign to set up a “green GDP” system, the newspaper said. “Experts estimate that when environmental costs are deducted, the average annual GDP growth rate in China will be cut by as much as 2 percentage points,” it said.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 3 2005 1:33 utc | 47

I really wish I could re-source that factoid I remember reading years back — paper? journal article? — about warlike behaviour correlated with the M/F ratio in a culture.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 3 2005 1:34 utc | 48

Any help?
Link

Posted by: DM | Mar 3 2005 2:06 utc | 49

Interesting discussion here.
Me and a friend sat down some years ago and decided to calculate roughly what standard of living we humans could all (at present population) have for a long time. It was a hard task and we didn´t come far. But we found somewhere reliable statistics on electricity consumption all over the world. I don´t remember the numbers but the conclusion was that if all humans divided the electricity fair and square we would end up on a level of a quarter of swedish consumption (and we use pretty much electricity, it is cold and dark here).
If combined with a much qouted number, that we humans use the yields of 3 planets (or 3 times the abuse that the planet can absorb) all humans could live sustainably at a 1/12 the level of present day electricity consumption in Sweden.
This is very rough scethes and covers only electricity and not all energy. That said I don´t think 1/12 of todays Swedish average would be totally horrible and if we focus on making our toys more efficient maybe we can keep some. And most of all our systems needs so much optimization.
But then again we are not really in charge here, some unelected rich unhumane fellows (lizards or not lizards 🙂 ) are.

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Mar 3 2005 2:07 utc | 50

When Sweden was most warlike there was fewer men then women. The men had a tendency to die in foreign countries leaving the homecountry and business to the women. There was kind of a backlash when Sweden became more peaceful.

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Mar 3 2005 2:11 utc | 51

The Security Logic of High Sex Ratio Societies, by two researchers, Valerie M. Hudson at Brigham Young University, and Andrea M. DenBoer at University of Kent in the UK, points to “a variable that will become highly significant in Asia within the next two decades. That variable is the young adult sex ratio. The sex ratios of many Asian nations are being skewed in favor of males on a scale unprecedented in human history.” See also: general, and book by said authors:
ChronicleHighrEd
The Chinese are becoming like ‘everyone’ else. They have lost a huge amount of manufacturing jobs to poorer countries, way up there, close to the US numbers…. So, they can import women, and do! Poor men are left by the wayside.

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 3 2005 17:41 utc | 52

like everyone else
From TruthMedia – “a ministry of Campus Crusade for Christ, Canada.”
“There is a tremendous need for internet content that helps build values in society and leads people to investigate who God is. As a global market of information, the internet offers very little Chinese content that deals with issues of morality or spirituality. Considering that one in every nine people worldwide is a Chinese woman ‘chinesewomentoday’ is well situated to meet the needs of this rapidly growing market.
Each month a diverse collection of articles is arranged around a central theme. The gospel is shared through quality articles and life stories that are relevant to every day living. The website also ministers through advice, email mentoring, newsletters and small group chat sessions. As Chinese seekers respond to the website, a team of mentors and chat room hosts interact personally with them; answering questions, providing spiritual help and sharing their faith in Christ.”
TruthMedia
ChineseWomenToday features articles such as: Pressure Fuels Growth – Business dining – Happy with your body?

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 3 2005 18:29 utc | 53

@Blackie bless you, that article has the ref The argument presented in Bare Branches is akin to one developed in the late 1990s by the Canadian psychologists Neil I. Wiener and Christian G. Mesquida.
I am pretty sure it was Wiener and Mesquida I read in the late 90’s, or someone citing them. This gets us deeply into the nature/nurture wars, but I think we can take as given that the nurture (culture) side of the equation is not gonna change overnight, i.e. tightly-wound hierarchical/patriarchal societies are not suddenly going to go Sproing!, unwind, and become relaxed matrilineal/anarchistic commensalist societies in our lifetimes. So the cultural patterns that encourage and nurture the dominance/violence bits of the male reptile brain are going to continue unabated during the peak in the numbers of young men with “testosterone to burn.”
Or to put it more succinctly — Yikes.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 3 2005 18:53 utc | 54

Admittedly it is monetist and keeps us in that framework that Comrade Slothrop (hat tip) was talking about earlier — the framework of the capitalist Market, outside of which box we are not, repeat not, permitted to think. But I still have hopes for true cost accounting and the re-internalisation of falsely “externalised” costs.

Professor Jules Pretty, of Essex University, and Professor Tim Lang, of City University, in London, said another way of looking at the problem was to assess the national savings that could be made if everything was done differently.
They reckoned more than £4bn a year could be saved if farmers grew organically, farming subsidies were abolished and if consumers shopped for local produce, preferably on their bikes. The issue centers on the concept of “food miles” which refers to the distance traveled by produce from farm to fork.
The scientists tried to assess the added expense of bringing food from around the UK and the wider world to the typical British dinner table. By analyzing foodstuffs, farming methods and transport policies, professors Pretty and Lang found that if all of our food came from within 20km (12.4 miles) of where we live we could save £2.1bn a year in environmental and congestion costs.
They also found that if shopping by car was replaced by bus, bicycle or walking, these savings would amount to a further £1.1bn. And if all farms in Britain were to follow organic principles, the costs to the environment would fall from £1.5bn a year to less than £400m, a further saving of £1.1bn. “Food miles are more important than we thought and buying local is more important than buying green,” Professor Pretty said at the Science Media Center in London. “It’s better to buy a local lettuce than an organic one from the other side of Europe.”

two bio, four bio, a bio and a half — pretty soon you’re talking serious money here…

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 3 2005 18:57 utc | 55

This is a very helpful thread. It prompts me to search for the genealogy of an “economics of scarcity”. Would I be barking up the wrong tree in looking for such a thing? Since Oikos/nomos, meaning “the law of the household,” presupposes a management of resources, it might also presuppose a management of scarce resources. But the great theologies that drive so much of our thinking would have us reason otherwise: they argue for an irreducible abundance, or at least an abundance issuing out of an apparent scarcity , as in the “miracle of the loaves and fishes” (something to which, in his own singular way, Bataille himself subscribes). But didn’t there still arise, somewhere along the way, the notion of a scarcity not to be conjured away? With Adam Smith, perhaps, or Malthus? Or Ricardo? Marx, and other deliberators on capital development, don’t seem to think in terms of an irreducible scarcity. Are there any historians in the field of economics who could help out with this little problem–or with a more lucid formulation of it?

Posted by: alabama | Mar 3 2005 19:42 utc | 56

we can take as given that the nurture (culture) side of the equation is not gonna change overnight
This is the big problem I was trying to obliquely address above: even the consciousneses of “nurture” is a symptom of the irreconciliation of humans and nature. To be sure, culture determines so much, because culture is material practice. But, so much of this practice, this “nurture” is oriented to domination of nature/humanity such that “subjectivity” would be irreperably and unacceptably damaged by any attempt to nurture reconciliation via the abolition of consumerism wherever possible. People would perceive such changes as nothing less than the wholesale attack on indiviudual freedom. This reconciliation of humans w/ nature is the very antithesis of modern liberty.
This is why the catastrophist futurism of some of the posters here is necessary because only the threat of total extinction can motivate persons to let go of what they can only know as their freedom in exchange for a form of life, the reconciliation of humanity with nature, which is presently inconceivable for all but the most isolated people (if these people even exist).
I’ll give one example of a tiny part of reconciled life that, to me, is barely comprehensible, but fully achievable. Imagine culture as entirely the product of shared experiences, entirely freed from elite forms of mediation. Such a mode of producing culture would completely relativize “truth.” There would be no authors, celebrities or brands, no intellectual property, no heirarchy, no subjectivity defined by such “possessive indiviudualism.” Culture/nurture, in the sense we know it now, would be indistinguishable from nature.
What a lot of work we have to do.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 3 2005 20:06 utc | 57

slothrop, believe it or not, S.T.Coleridge, in his radical years (1794-98), tried to imagine just such a culture you describe. He specifically tried to imagine an unpropertied culture that could dispense with proper names. Better yet, in some of his writings at that time he himself actually tried to dispense with proper names–at one point calling someone who’s obviously Ben Franklin “the patriot sage,” and, at another, someone who’s obviously Jeanne d”Arc, “the Warrior Maid of France”. The problem here lay with the “obviously”: in STC’s scheme, individuals would be known only by their acts of “donation” to society, but those acts would have to be so singular that you’d never confuse, say, the one “partriot sage” with any other. Coleridge therefore substituted one designation of singularity (the proper name) with another (call it, if you will, the “proper act”). But he didn’t abandon his attack on property without trying to think it through…..

Posted by: alabama | Mar 3 2005 20:41 utc | 58

only the threat of total extinction can motivate persons to let go of what they can only know as their freedom
isn’t this to the advantage of those already in power though? we’ve already seen how citizens are willing to give up their rights (including the right to ask legitimate questions) in the face of a threat which might manifest itself in the form of a mushroom cloud or a dirty bomb at the local shopping center. i’m imagining (simply b/c i’m not versed in sociology) that when things get bleak, many people are more likely to turn to self-destructive, counter-productive behaviors (drinking, smoking, depression, paranoia, withdrawal from other people, etc) that further amplify the ensuing chaos. not that i disagree w/ your greater point.
working backward
People would perceive such changes as nothing less than the wholesale attack on indiviudual freedom.
very true for those who are completely indoctrinated into the hegemony of capitalism, but i have a sense that this spell can be broken. consumers are wired w/ the belief that what liberates us is the act of consuming. it’s one of the big brainwashing rhetorical tactics readily accessible in the capitalist’s association of the free market w/ freedom. but it’s also one of the biggest contradictions in capitalism, that the more in servitude you are to material possessions, the less true freedom you actually have. it’s not a difficult concept for anyone to grasp, provided these contradictions are reinforced at a level that at least compete w/ the marketplace’s command of thinkable thought. actually, it is human nature to conceptualize & define our actions. give people enough dots to connect & it’s a given that they will trace them out to the extent that the patterns that emerge show a benefit to doing so. and i guess this is part of where an informed fear of a crises that implicates extinction plays a role in active engagement. the dots take on more importance when our childrens future is in question.

Posted by: b real | Mar 3 2005 20:44 utc | 59

alabama
only person who comes to mind is murray bookchin. but he’s no economist. Sen? Beats me.

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 3 2005 21:11 utc | 60

slothrop,
So what am I doing in front of this keyboard?

Posted by: anna missed | Mar 3 2005 21:16 utc | 61

anna missed
you’re an overman cooperatively creating truth without directly material personal benefit.
That is, until bernhard decides to shut down this thread.
hic rhodus, hic salta!

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 3 2005 21:28 utc | 62

DeA

tightly-wound hierarchical/patriarchal societies are not suddenly going to go Sproing!, unwind, and become relaxed matrilineal/anarchistic commensalist societies in our lifetimes

Sure they will, we just have to find the right button to push. You know, the one marked ‘Press here for Sproing!’

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Mar 3 2005 21:57 utc | 63

I wanted to quickly account for an inconsistency in my argument above. I said new media uses might provide access to cultural reproduction countervailing authorship, and authority of the “truth.” This is a positive development. Elsewhere, I’ve said rightwing/neofascism succeeds partly because truth is relativised by Fox, etc. in such a way persons reactionarily repudiate knowledge about a reality strategically assigned by rightwing media to “leftist” dogma. Thus, for the rightwing radio audience, university professors, hollywood are the “status quo” and have only opinions of the world no more relevant than any other opinion. Neofascism reduces all thought to the authority of the party in order to suppress dissent.
I want to resolve this seeming contradiction in my argument by insisting new media may contribute to a form of life in which even “the party” can no longer build its hegemony of “truth” because the means of communication and cultural reproduction are too widely distributed.
This reconciliation of culture with nature would endow truth as the product of vastly modal local consensus-building and achievement of necessary solidarity to complement the aim of environmentally sustainable societies. The form of life is incomprehensible, as I’ve said before, however, such life would emulate a kind of pure democracy.
By this point in this thread, I know I’m probably doing this for my own edification…

Posted by: slothrop | Mar 5 2005 17:42 utc | 64

It is a good thing to sort out one´s thoughts even though nobody might be paying attention, or perhaps especially then as the solitude removes the drive to ´win´ an argument that make one prone to skip over a part if nobody notices. I know it is so for me.
But anyway, both I and the good chaps in the black choppers always reads your writings…

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Mar 5 2005 18:07 utc | 65