Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
February 25, 2005
Metal Firtina

Metal Storm is the title of a Turkish "á la Clancy" bestseller. Al Jazeera abstracts:

The novel, set in May 2007, begins when Turkish troops deployed in northern Iraq to protect the ethnic Turkish Turkmen community there, come under attack from US forces.

A huge disinformation campaign launched by Washington has people thinking that the Turks fired first, while the true aim of the United States is to seize Turkey’s rich borax mines, which account for 60% of the world’s boron production.

Turkey’s major cities come under heavy fire, with huge loss of life, while Ankara, taken by surprise, turns to the European Union and Russia for help.

The Christian Science Monitor and the Chicago Tribune also have reviews.

The current anti-Americanism in Turkey, the scathing anti-Turkish Wall Street Journal piece by Robert L. Pollack and this sane reply are not pointing to better relations.

In Executive Order, published 1996, Tom Clancy narrated an airliner crashing into Capitol Hill. Then came 9/11. Metal Storm has a Turkish agent, acting on his own revenge initiative, detonating a nuclear bomb in a park in Washington. Just tin foil hat stuff?

I am afraid it is much more serious. If Washington allows a quasi autonomous Kurdistan, with a resourceful oil capital Kirkuk, to emerge, Turkey’s eastern Kurdish parts will go up in flames (as will Kurdish parts of Iran and Syria). Ankara can not just stand by and let this happen.

Comments

Well, the Americans want “stability” in Iraq, in whatever form and content. An autonomous Kurdistan with the oil of Kirkuk, could provide short term stability, but means nothing in the medium run. The Shia will just buy time, until they will be ready to unify Iraq under their leadership.
The Turks have many options. They can cooperate with the Shia and/or with the Sunnis against the Kurds. They can cut the oil flows from Kirkuk. If they are very pissed, they will stop oil exports from the BTC pipeline. And finally they can always invade.
The big surprise will come from the Europeans. I have seen that many “pundits” believe that Turkey will not invade, because she wants to join the EU. My forecast is that the Europeans will support the actions of the Turks, even an invasion, if they believe that the situation can be stabilised.

Posted by: Greco | Feb 25 2005 14:26 utc | 1

Now that I read again what I have writen, I find that I didn’t express my thoughts correctly.
The Turks will not invade if they don’t believe that their existense as a country is in danger. Kurdish autonomy probably will not be enough for an invasion, but indepedence will certainly be.
A possible turkish invasion will not take place in a political vacuum. The official government of Iraq, Shia or Shia-Sunni, will request help from Turkey, and Turkey will comply. Europeans will not say let’s slaughter the Kurds, they will say let’s help the poor government of Iraq to implement the will of the majority.
This scenario has a ten years horizon.

Posted by: Greco | Feb 25 2005 14:39 utc | 2

This scenario has a ten years horizon.
I would rather say ten month. The turkoman Iraqi’s will ask their cousins for help when they get evicted from Kirkuk.
Turkey could deny the Incirlic airbase to the US Iraq logistic. That would an immediate problem.
Turkey also has its hand on the Iraqi water tap. I visited the Ataturk Dam in 1991 shortly before it opened. It is part of a gigantic project that takes 50% of the water from the Euphrat to grow groceries in south-east Turkey. Some officer explained to me that it can also use 100% of the Euphrates and Tigris water if need comes up. Iraq (and Syria) would simply dry up.
A explosive mixture in all and my Turkish friends are very concerned. The US better cool down it’s tone on Turkey.

Posted by: b | Feb 25 2005 15:14 utc | 3

Some background from globalsecurity.org for those of us who don’t understand the details of the background for this one.
I’m not sure of the biases of globalsecurity.org. Anyone care to comment?

Posted by: Colman | Feb 25 2005 15:57 utc | 4

After noting the bright side of the overall picture in Iraq, the government could have declared the election in Kirkuk disputable, if not illegitimate. It could even call for a partial census there to be followed by a fresh election. Also, in this context, it could have suggested participation according to “quotas” to eliminate the hazards of a low turnout in the Sunni areas. Finally, it could have said that the unjust treatment given to the Turkmens until now should be corrected by Aug. 15 and that the Turkmens should have in Iraq’s new political structure a place that would be proportionate to their demographic weight. It could have warned that in the absence of such a change, due to domestic political reasons, Ankara would not be able to make a contribution to the regional and global policies of the United States in the fight on terrorism.
It is true that the Turks have come to harbor feelings of animosity towards the United States more strongly than in many other countries. This is partly the result of the growing resentment towards the West on issues such as Cyprus and EU membership. Also, the Kemalist and nationalist segments of society are upset by the United States’ stand regarding the PKK.
Even more important, in addition to all these issues, the way the United States has treated the Sunnis in Iraq has deeply hurt the feelings of religious people who support the AKP. The number of people who even go so far as to wish that the al-Zarqawi terrorism wins is on the increase. Turkish foreign policy cannot be conducted on such irrational ground. Secularism is the separation of state affairs and religion, and this goes for foreign policy as well. The government must clearly show that it does not adopt the kind of stance that would mean that religion is becoming a political ideology.
A serious crisis with the United States is inevitable unless both sides act with caution.
Link

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Feb 25 2005 16:13 utc | 5

Off Topic:
Just a follow-up to a recent post (Whither Canada?) on a U.S. take-over of Canada. One of the points therein was the need for some “brand name” for indoctrinating schoolchildren to the concept. Now the brand name has been floated: Atlantica.
To my future bi-national rulers, I can only say, “Yeach!”
On Topic: If the neo-con/millenialist idea is for a generation-spanning conflict between Islam and (born-again) Christendom, then you can’t allow yourself the luxury of differentiating between “good” Muslims–Turks, Malaysian, etc.–and “bad” Muslims–Arabians, Persians, u.s.w. All Muslims are bad by their very act of embracing Islam, and the sooner the pro-Western types are brought around to hating America, the faster the U.S. can start wiping them out.

Posted by: jlw | Feb 25 2005 16:19 utc | 6

Atlantica sounds awfully like something scheduled to disappear below the waves pretty soon.
Your second point is wonderfully paranoid, and I’m almost sure they can’t possibly think that way.
All too complicated for Friday afternoon.

Posted by: Colman | Feb 25 2005 16:44 utc | 7

From the CSM review:
“The Foreign Ministry and General Staff are reading it keenly,” Murat Yetkin, a columnist for the Turkish daily newspaper Radikal, recently wrote. “All cabinet members also have it.”
Several other columnists have also written about the book, suggesting its depiction of a clash between the two NATO allies could become a reality. Serdar Turgut, the editor of Aksam, one of Turkey’s largest newspapers, penned a recent column that took one of Metal Storm’s premises – that members of Skull and Bones, the secret society that President Bush joined as a student at Yale, has taken control of US foreign policy – and presented it as fact.

This is how societies steer into action: find a thought people at different levels can share, and then commence to steer by the same constellations. This will be the North Star by which Turks navigate.
Turna does not see the book as fiction. “From our point of view, it’s a philosophical and scientific calculation,” he says. “It’s more than a novel.”
Mythology, meet Prophecy.
As the lands joined two creatures were formed, the giant Ymir and the cow, Audumla. Other giants grew from Ymir’s body and as Audumla licked the salty ice the figure of Buri was formed. Buri had a child called Bor who in turn had a sons, Odin, Vili and Ve. These became the first gods.
When Odin and his brothers reached adulthood, they killed Ymir and used his body parts to create the world. His blood became the sea, his bones the mountains, his flesh the earth and his skull the sky. The moon, sun and stars came from sparks the gods took from muspell.

Just out of curiosity, is Odin a Turkish name too?

Posted by: Citizen | Feb 25 2005 16:54 utc | 8

Barzani softens line on Kurdish state

Posted by: Turning down the heat | Feb 25 2005 17:17 utc | 9

Why deny Kurds a home to call their own?
Felahin, refugee
(Kurdistan similarly)
Need something to
Build on
Rather like
The rest of us.

-Robert Wyatt- “Dondestan”

Posted by: slothrop | Feb 25 2005 17:38 utc | 10

Based on the way Turkey has treated Armenians and Kurds, the credibility of Turkey’s concerns for a Kurdistan is very, very low.
Doesn’t the “left” owe Kurds support for establishment of Kurdistan?

Posted by: slothrop | Feb 25 2005 17:41 utc | 11

is there a german or english translation of the book ? amazon does not have it.
and more “anti-americanism”: lufthansa and others affected by the over-hyped security around bush’ visit to mainz are thinking about lawsuits to recover lost business caused by the clamp-down. Bloomberg has more.

Posted by: name | Feb 25 2005 18:36 utc | 12

I appreciate that EU elite planners want Turkey in ‘cuz they have worlds 5th largest army which would form nucleus for new EU military force; but beyond not being a European nation, this is another good reason to put it off.

Posted by: jj | Feb 25 2005 19:02 utc | 13

@slothrop
Doesn’t the “left” owe Kurds support for establishment of Kurdistan? Yes, but not in a nation state.
I was sitting in an restaurant in a small town near Diyarbakir with three Kurds. We didn´t know each other languages so we painted our discussion on napkins.
A Kurdish state would have to include parts of Iran, Iraq, Syria and Turkey. The country itself is either desert or very mountainious. So it would have to include Kirkuk for oil, the GAP irregation project for electricity and water, parts of Turkeys southern coast for sea access. That was their wishlist for a viable state.
Given that a lot of these regions are actually quite mixed in ethnicy, this would be project for some decades of endless wars.
I tried to explain better ways. Build an economic zone including these four countries and proceed like in the EU modell. The importancy of ethnicy would melt away. The left should push for such a solution.
They did like the idea, but they didn´t trusted the existing states to proceed in such a way. Thats some years ago and maybe some years from now that may be a way to go. The EU has done a lot for Kurds in Turkey by pressing for more local rights and sofar this is successful. Maybe the next step will be a Europe “associate economy zone” that could do the next steps.
I still have the napkins.

Posted by: b | Feb 25 2005 19:09 utc | 14

@name – a German version is planed, so I have heard.
@jj – European armies – I can´t find the numbers now, but last time I looked the members of the EU combined had much more man under weapon than the US. These are defense forces, not expeditionary corps like the US forces are. Thats the difference in structure and capabilities.
Said differently. Why should the EU need a Turkish army? Is there any serious military thread that the EU could not defend against?

Posted by: b | Feb 25 2005 19:36 utc | 15

Greco – the BTC pipeline will specifically avoid the Kurdish areas. It links Azerbaijan to Ceyhan (which is also the port for Iraqi exports and thus set to become a major oil hub – interestingly, like Russian oil, it ends up in an internal European Sea (the Meditarranean) in this case which means that it can be denied fully to the US…
Amazing that we even think such thoughts. Only 4 years… It’s easier to putthe toothpast out than put in back in, hey georgie.
OT – I have just learnt that a guy I work with (one of my clients) personally knows Bush from his Yale days and regularly goes to the WH. Despite this, he does not like him personally or politically… But note that we have a fairly short access route to the WH, if need be!

Posted by: Jérôme | Feb 25 2005 20:18 utc | 16

But note that we have a fairly short access route to the WH, if need be!
@Jérôme – would he take an elimination task?

Posted by: b | Feb 25 2005 20:28 utc | 17

@ Jérôme
The Turks could close the BTC pipeline for “technical” reasons or a turkish court could say “stop” for…enviromental reasons, in order to put pressure on the Americans.
Imagine a situation of 80$ per barel and the Turks closing down the BTC!
I don’t say they are going to do it, I just note that it is a possibility.

Posted by: Greco | Feb 25 2005 20:59 utc | 18

jj, remind me again why Turkey isn’t suitable for EU membership?
b, that’s what I was thinking: economic/cultural area sounds possible, under auspices of UN/EU. Would require grown-ups though, and there seem to be precious few of them around.

Posted by: Colman | Feb 25 2005 21:57 utc | 19

Colman,
Because they’re Muslims perhaps?

Posted by: Mustafa Badguy | Feb 25 2005 22:13 utc | 20

Because they’re Muslims perhaps? No, thats not a reason not to join the EU if the state is mostly secular. A state based on religion like Israel would be a problem though.

Posted by: b | Feb 26 2005 7:00 utc | 21

Please seizes us on!!!!!! Please attacks us!!! Then you to see to be massakiriert which it is!! I do not know even chicken of dead!!Americans and Jews cut I into small parts…. Request comes and attacks us! to door keys! To her will see which we no Iraq are!!! You are the plague of this world..schweine Americans… comes I wait ago for you… You do not even know feeling of Schamm!! You are animals… you are simply pigs… comes ago…
sinan tuerk..

Posted by: sinan türk | Feb 26 2005 23:33 utc | 22

Damn those junk software translation programs anyway. They never were any good. It is being the deep holes they are in actuality.

Posted by: Lost in translation | Feb 27 2005 0:17 utc | 23

@b, Sorry I can’t find the article I was reading this week that made the point that now that EU moving toward becoming a nation, or unified political entity if you will, w/common currency & increasingly standing up to xUS, it would inevitably develop it’s own military. We see that in the pulling away from NATO. Author thght. that was big draw of Turkey having such large army ready for inclusion. It seemed plausible, depending on the army, it’s training, traditions, etc.

Posted by: jj | Feb 27 2005 9:51 utc | 24

I read METAL STORM.As a person who likes literature I liked it so much and I have finished it from 7 p.m. to 4 a.m. in the morning,reading all night long.But as a Turkish citizen who wishes peace for all of the world and as a Kemalist nationalist, I have some question marks,some doubts for the book.On one hand you feel that the book is about anti-imperialism and anti-Americanism but on the other hand American army to reach the capital city only in 3-4 days,to Istanbul only in 15 days,for getting that urkish Air Force and air defence system is one of the strongest in the world and Turkish army is one of the strongest in the world but mixing it with Iraqi army,seeing most of the Turkish citizens not reacting,not being united against this American attack,and a Turkish special spy to use a nuclear weapon to delete Washington from the map made me think that the authors of the book may be getting their salaries from CIA to check the reaction,check the feelings of Turkish citizens.
For some people who have written things like Turkey’s attendance to EU.Believe me most of us know that EU will not accept that and most of us do not care that.We all know that EU countries are not more secular than Turkey.We all know that Christian EU can not forget the history about Turks.But history is for taking lessons,not for making the same mistakes again and again.I am sure that Turkey will make a military operation against Iraqi Kurds if they will continue threatening Turkmens.Turkey did the same for Turkish Cypriots and although all the world including USA and Soviet Union opposed,and although it was during cold war time, Turkey went there,has beaten Greek Cpriots and Greece only in 3 days,and rescued its relatives,still the world does not recognize Turkish Republic of Northern Cprus but the truth was allways as clear as it was.Turkey went there to save its relatives and it was according to the guarantee aggreement between Turkey,Greece and England.You must have no doubt that Turkey will do the same for Turkmens if Kurds will go on acting this much silly because of American support to them.Turkish overnment can not stop millions of Turks wanting action against stupidness.

Posted by: CETIN | Feb 28 2005 22:21 utc | 25

Welcome CETIN
Please allow some remarks. (I have not read the book only the reports about it. I am German and have traveled in Turkey several times (along the eastern and southern boarders as well as the southern and west coastline) and have several Turkish (turk and kurd) friends.
My thinking on this:
– The US military could probably reach Ankara in 5 days, but it would not be able to do much more, i.e. occupy and hold on to it. It would kill the Turkish air force though. But the military part is not the real question.
– The US could use other tools to pressure Turkey. Money (IMF, World Bank), give weapons to the kurdish seperatist, feed a guerilla war in east Turkey.
– EU: The EU states are not secular. They are living within their historic sphere which is christian. But their general thinking is more tolerant, in my view, than you seem to believe. My part of town has about as many mosques as churches. The churches are bigger, but are not as filled as the mosques. 80% of all people living here do not care about religion, but do care about human rights, peace and tolerance (just as -non fundamental- islam or christianity does).
– Turkey within the EU may happen and I would prefer it. But it is not really important for Turkey, nor for EU. Commercial relations do not need EU contracts and Turkey will be at least deeply associated with the EU. The EU is a century project, not a “next year” project. Turkey is a big country unlike the baltics and it may take some decades to integrate each other.
– Is Vural Öger know in Turkey? He is an immigrant from Turkey to Germany, successful entrepreneur and now a member of the European Parliament for Hamburg, Germany.
– And you are right – Turkey will fight for the turkmens in Iraq. And it will be big BIG mess for all sides, so we should all work to avoid it.

Posted by: b | Feb 28 2005 23:07 utc | 26

Well, I have read the book Metal Firtina, and I guess there is no plans for translating it into English or German, at least for some time to come.
Going back to “anti-Americanism in Turkey”. These sentiments were ever found in Turkey, yet I think they should be understood as severe criticisms of US foreign policy rather than politics of hatred, as some might think. Turkish people do not hate Americans, they are suspicious about their policies. I think US decision-makers should be more sensitive to Turkish sensitivity about an independent Kurdish state, this is a hot concern in any circle in Turkey. They should also be more careful about their intentions about Syria and Iran. Lack of serious planning and extreme self-confidence led to ongoing disasters in Iraq, which may happen in those countries unless inner dynamics of each country is successfully analyzed. Possible interventions to these countries will ultimately increase the Turkish suspicions and make them feel threatened. At that point, I do not guarantee that criticisms will not turn into enmity. Any country would feel the same if three of its neighbours are under constant fire.
These are my humble opinions..

Posted by: Gonca | Mar 1 2005 19:41 utc | 27

Thanks b.
Let me try to insis on some subjects.
In a war between Turkey and USA,it is so clear that USA must do all it can very quickly,otherwise a war which will be longer surely be the end of USA in the middle east.I do not tell this because I a Turkish.I tell this as a person who follows up war history,politics and military issues.But even USA attacks very had and very quick,still it is impossible to believe that American soldiers can cross Turkish border in 8-9 hours and get into Ankara in 3-4 days.They even couldn’t do that in Baghdad.Can you remember how many days it took for them to capture Iraq?Another issue is Turks are known as a warrior nation.That is correct.In all the wars our nation fought at old men,old women,young girls,even the children have shown all kinds of heroic events,our history is full of these stories.So,what is mentioned in the book about our nation is unbelieveable.You are right.USA and EU can give a very big disaster to Turkey by using IMF or World Bank.And USA has been giving weapons,technical support,medical support to seperatist Kurds since 1987,sorry to say but like Germany,like France,like England,like Belium,like Italy.When we were in the army we allways learn these truths from or commanders.Truths allways hurt and when I have learned and became sure that our “allies”were helping our seperatists,it eally hurt me so much.Because this nation has suffered since 2nd World War,had so many economical ad political difficulties,rightist-leftist foughts,etc.Bu allways have fed a strong army against Soviet Union,and we were not just protecting our country we were also protecting European’s borders and peace.It is really tragicomic when we see hat old communist enemies were easily accepted to EU while Europe’s 80 years “friend”is not accepted.I can trust you my friend when you say you believe democracy and you do no care about religion.But I do not believe EU governments including German governments when they say that they want democracy and they do not care religious issues.About religious issue.You tell me that you have visited Turkey.I ope you have visied Istanbul.I hope you have seen Istiklal Street.I hope you have seen sinagogu,church and mosque just on the same sreet.Our history is full of religion brothership for hundreds and hundreds of years.I an easily be sure hat urkey is much more secular than any U country including France.And noone can compae Turkey with any other Muslim countries.
I was in Germany,in Stutgart for 2 weeks in July 2004.I visited Munich,too.I do not know what your Kurdish friends from Turkey have said to you.But I know that none of the Turkish originaed Turkish citizens have any enemysip to our Kurdish originated Turkish citizens.In Turkey we have exactly equal rights with them.We had many Kurdish prime ministers,presidents,geneals even army chiefs and still have so many senators and ministers.The richest people in urkey ilude so many Kurds,the most famos artists and singers include so many Kurds.But there is a reality,the southern part of urkey is not developed.But it is not because the governments did not support that area because of Kurds as some seperatists tell and as many uropeans believe.I was born in Istanbul and still live in Istanbul but my origin is Adiyaman,you can find its place from the map.It is in the southeastern region of Turkey.I am Turkish(Tatar Turk)originated,I am not Kurdish.My family,my roots are still living there.They are all poor.They are farming for 6 months and the rest of the year they eat the money they have earned in the previous 6 months.But the geographical conditions in southeastern region are really very hard and none of the businessmen can prefer investing there.Our government ried to open some factories and they have manaed but of course it was not enough.But what could the government do?Since the beginning of this century we had continuous wars,then military regyms,then Armenian terrorists,then Kurdish terrorists,now what else?So,from outside I can understand that the things written and said about Turkey can easily give you negative impression but the eality is not what you read or what you watch.
I certainly know Vural Öger.Just now a film sponsored by Öger TOur is popular at the movies.In addition to this I wached him on tv at some programs.
As a result,I believe that USA is giving harm to the world and the most dangerous country for the world now is USA.
Regards

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 1 2005 19:56 utc | 28

Cetin, you overestimate the influence of religion in the EU. Truth be told, most objections to Turkish entry are not religious at all, they’re racist or at best nationalistic.
I started this year completely unconvinced of the merits of Turkish membership, but a little bit of thought and research convinced me that it poses no particular problems and has a lot to recommend it. I suspect a lot of other people are going to follow a similar path. There will be a lot of people within the EU pushing for Turkish membership.
Which history do you think the “Christian EU” (did you know most of the fundamentalist Christian groups are vehemently anti-EU?) can’t forget? So far we’ve managed to glue the Germans and the French, the British and the Irish and a lot of others into this thing. I can’t think of any history the Turks have with the rest of Europe that would be a problem.

Posted by: Colman | Mar 1 2005 20:33 utc | 29

The EU is not a project that is viable enough or strong enough to just keep on absorbing extra territory. Where are the limits?
Turkey joining the EU would cost the EU between 15 and 25 billion dollars or euros, take your pick. For that reason, it will not be done, or not within the next 10 years.
The question has nothing much to do with Islam, Christianity, Secularism, etc. But much with the Kurds.
That said, maybe Turkey should join with Switzerland, Norway, and Cuba? Just 🙂 😉 …
Hi Turkish brothers, just to be clear, I loathe the politically and financially calculated EU viewpoint, and am not making any kind of argument against Turkey.

Posted by: Blackie | Mar 1 2005 20:38 utc | 30

The EU project is in trouble because the EU extended much too fast. There will be a step back when the constitution fails to be accepted everywhere. This will lead to core-zone of some countries (france, benelux, germany,..) and a wider economic zone of todays EU. After that I don´t know. But Turkey is certainly welcome to the club, maybe even to the core-zone.

Posted by: b | Mar 1 2005 22:00 utc | 31

Hi,Colman,Blackie and b.Sorry,I have been overworking these days so I couldn’t have time to check your mails until tonight.Colman,as you know Crusaiders made 7 attacks to holly lands(for all 3 big religions).But I am not sure if you know exactly what has happened to those Crusaiders.Let me tell you,every time Turks(mostly Seljuklus and sometimes some other Turkish tribes)have beaten all Crusaider armies.That is why Crusaiders made so many tortures in Jerussalem and some other cities in the holy land.Because they were angry to Turks who have atacked them on the way to holly lands.Turks will never be forgotten by Christian world especially western world Colman.There are so many reasons.I have already told you one of them,the nation to stop Crusaiders or the nation who made Christians to get united as Crusaiders.Another reason is Turks have ruled the world as a superpower lie USA today for more than 400 years during Ottoman Empire(I do not count the first 100 and last 200 years of it).Turks were controlling all Europe,all French,Italian,Spanish,German,English sailors had to give money and gold to Turkish navy when they were passing through Mediterrenean or from Ottoman lads.Ottoman Sultan was een interfering European countries’ kings.Vienna my friends,Christian world can not forget that Mslim urks were nearly entering to Vienna and hey all knew that if Vienna would have been captured then the est of the world would be captured.Finallt Turks are the only nations outside Europe which European Imperialists have never occupied.They have tried it after the 1st World War but again Turkey has shown a significant role.Turkey was the first country who has sopped imperialism and kicked away from its country in its weakest days.And his has been a moral to other invaded countries like India,Algeria,Morocco,Tunisia,Libya,Egypt,etc.All of us know hat all Moroccons,Tunisians,Libians,etc were having ATATURK’s pictures in their pockes wen they were fighting against Italians or English or French.We have so many reasons my friends for European christians not to want Turkey.But logically EU has much more benefits hen loss if they unite with Turkey.You are right Colman.Benefits are more for EU.But to be honest,I believe EU will not accept urkey and urkey will create a new world for itself.Already many people ae talking about a EUROASIAN UNION with Russia,Ukrain,Turkey,India,China,Iran,Pakistan and all Middle Asian Turkish Republics like Azerbaijan,Kirghizistan,Kazakhistan,Uzbekistan,Turkmenistan and may be some oher former Soviet Union Republics.2-3 years ao may people from urkey were laughing about this idea but mos of them find it much more logical,much more reasonable and much more honourable.Allways Turkey is left alone against Sothern Greek Republic of Cyprus,allways Turkey is left alone about nonsense Greek statements,allways especially France accusing Turkey with Armenian genocide.So,when do you think this can continue?We are 70 million.60 million of this population is below 40 years old and are all hardworking people.We all fed up from double facings of especially USA,FRANCE,ENGLAND,GERMANY and ITALY.But we are all sre hat this stupid game,I mean a government which does not represent Turkish will being a toy of EU and USA will end soon and when a government which think and talks like ordinary Turkish citizens then EU and SA will be sorry to loose a real friend.But it will be so late.
This book,I mean METAL FIRTINA helped Turkish people to open their eyes and start thinking more about who are we,where we are going,what they are ding to our country and nation.And this was sth which CIA was not expecting because they just wanted to destroy Turks belief to their country and their army.But this book caused the reverse.I still insist that this book is a CIA operation.Regrards to all of you.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 3 2005 22:04 utc | 32

CETIN – Thank you for joining this community. Is thanks tesh?

Posted by: beq | Mar 3 2005 22:25 utc | 33

I can say that up here there is not much fear or other feelings about Turkey based on the Ottoman empire. Russia is the big distrusted old enemy.
Negative feelings about Turkey entering EU exists, but they are mostly based on a racism that does not differensiate between for example turks, arabs, kurds and persians.
And I concur with beq, welcome and thanks for joining this community. The diversity of locations and voices here is very valuable.

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Mar 3 2005 23:02 utc | 34

Thanks to beq,sweedish and all other commnity members.
I think you asked what was “thanks” in Turkish,beq.It is “teşekkürler” but probably the Turkish Latin Alphabet Characters will not be seen here so you can say sth like “tashakkurlar”.Regards.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 5 2005 8:33 utc | 35

to dislike USA. killer USA We USA people dont like to hate USA and collaborator’s ….

Posted by: Ufuk Nalbant | Mar 5 2005 10:56 utc | 36

I want to inform you about the latest discussions about the book “METAL FIRTINA”in Turkey.Last night one of the most popular and free discussion programs of Turkey at FLASH TV CHANNEL(the name of the program is CEVIZ KABUGU)discussed METAL FIRTINA with one retired staff colonel from TSK(Turkish Armed Forces)and one general broadcasting manager of a free tv channel(when I say free,this means it is really free,it is not the voice of USA,EU or government)with the program speaker Hulki Cevizoglu(he is one of the most objective reporter in Turkey).
As you remember in my previous messages I have insisted on that this book has been planned by CIA.The retired staff colonel gave so many clues which supported my arguement.Let me try to inform you about some of them:
1)In the book the authors used some military idioms when they were mentioning about scenes from Turkish Armed Forces which are not normally used in Turkish army but used in US Army.For example they used American measurement symbols when they were mentioning about cannons and some weapons.
2)They have used so many military idioms and words which can easily be understood that these are the translation of an English text because in Turkish Armed Forces they do not use those symbols.
3)One of these authors has made his military duty as an 8 months soldier in a navy base and the other one did not make it because of a health problem(in Turkey all men who passed his 21 years old must make his military duty unless he is not a student or he has some reasonable reasons not to make it).But in the book it is obvious that their military knowledge is not enough to mention about many military details.The retired staff colonel answered a question which was asking if someone could have learned those details from internet or from books negatively because they were a kind of secret for that army to be published in internet or any book.
4)As I have told you in my previous messages this retired colonel and some other retired colonels and generals who have made live conversations by phone during the program all together told that there is no army in the world who can capture Ankara in 2-3 days and Istanbul in 12 days.Even just after the 1st World War during the Freedom War of Turkish Nation against Greek armies which were supported by English,French,Italian armies could not do it in 3 years against an army which does not have heavy weapons.
5)The retired colonel and the tv manager together told that after you finish the book you can realise that there were 3 targets.First one is young officers of Turkish Armed Forces.The book wants to give them an expression like “let us be afraid of Americans,they can beat us so we’d better not fight against them.”.Second target is of course Turkish citizens.The book wants to give them the expression that TSK(Turkish Armed Forces)is so weak that all Turkish citizens are open targets for American planes and helicopters and soldiers.Therefor in case of a war they must not support TSK and they must sit at their homes to wait for Americans to finish their invasion.Third target is surely the government and some powerful bureuacrats at the state.The book wants to give them the impression that they must not show big resistence to a possible American attack.
6)The name METAL FIRTINA which means “METAL STORM”is not an ordinary name.It is given with conscious.Just write METAL STORM to google search engine and click it.You will see many METAL STORM subjects.One of them is about news on CNN on 27th of January 2003.It mentions about a hell weapon which fires one million bullets in one minute.In the beginning of a book a scene is told with details and when you read these news after that scene you understand that these authors were describing this metal storm gun in that scene.You can also find another METAL STORM topic in google which mentions about an Australian company named METAL STORM LIMITED which developed a pioneering fire-by-wire weapons system.It is about manless helicopter which can be used to kill.So,this also made me sure that even the name of the book was planned by an outside power but not these two young authors(one of them was born in 1975,the other one in 1969).
My friends,I hope one day this book will be translated into other languages(I already know that they started to translate into English)and you’d have the chance to read this book.It is a beautiful book according to literature.I finished this book from 6 p.m. to 4 a.m. without stopping.But the impression after you read makes you shocked.Regards.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 6 2005 13:11 utc | 37

UFUK NALBANT.I did not understand what you have meant from your message.Belki de Turkcesi’ni yazarsan anlayabilirim.(May be I can understand if you write in Turkish.)

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 6 2005 13:13 utc | 38

Cetin: Well, I agree with you that it’s not realistic to take Ankara in 3 days, or even 5, particularly when invading from Iraq/Kurdistan. Going to Istanbul in 2 weeks when coming from Iraq is just as impossible, imho. As you said, the US didn’t take Baghdad in 5 days, and it was closer than Ankara. That said, Istanbul can be assaulted in 2 weeks, assuming you mass enough troops in Europe – of course, this would then turn into a Stalingrad-like urban warfare. But right now, no one can mass such an army there – and Greece wouldn’t let the US do this unless it was already at war with Turkey, since Greeks are highly anti-American, at least anti-US govt.
That said, there’s one point about which I would be wary, if I were a Turkish general, which is that probably 90% of the military hardware is US-made, notably tanks, planes, surveillance systems. I’d bet my money that the US has implemented backdoors in all the equipment it sold abroad, just in case it needs to disrupt it. In this case, the Turks would have to rely on guerrilla-like actions to slow the advance (that, and I suppose a part of the high-tech equipment would still work either because the backdoor partly fails or because the Turks notice it and fix it quickly).
Last but not least, I can’t say anything about the reason for the book or who ordered it to be made, but if it was from the CIA to scare the Turkish people and army, it seems to have backfired big time. (not that it should surprise us, since BushCo screw up every plan they have)

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 6 2005 19:23 utc | 39

@Cetin
Please also take part in the other discussions here. It is very valuable for us discussing on this site to hear a Turkish opinion on issues like economy, Iraq, torture, Iran etc.
@Clueless
Turkish tanks are mostly second hand refurbished Leopards from Germany. We´ll make sure they get any spare part they need 😉

Posted by: b | Mar 6 2005 23:46 utc | 40

CETIN: Thanks for your comments that you posted on March 6, 2005 08:11 AM…
First of all, I would like to say that I am glad to read such good comments about the book ‘Metal Storm’:)Most comments are quite impressive and realistic.
One important thing we should keep in my mind that ‘the US would not hesitate to attack to any other country if they see a short/long term benefit for USA.'(they proved it by even attacking Japan and Germany in 2nd World War although there were no imminent or direct threat to American Mainland!!)One can enlarge the list…(Korea, Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran&Syria-on planning stage!)
Or creating unstability(economical and political)in some countries to keep them under control(South American countries: e.g. Mexico, Panama, Chilie, Venezuela, Argentina, Brazil!!) If you just check their Government Debts to IMF+World Bank and Political history-frequent military coups supported by America!!)
On the other hand, Turkey would not be so easy for American Johnnies! to invade! Being a warrior nation is not only a word but a reality proved many times in our history…I think 99% of citizens of Turkey will fight against invaders (including kurdish,gurcu, cerkez,laz and others) as they had done in Independence War! (remember Canakkale-Dardanelles, Urfa&Antep, Sakarya&Dumlupinar etc.)

Posted by: Patriot | Mar 9 2005 12:02 utc | 41

Patriot: well, yep, there are many wars that the US willingly engaged without being threatened or even attacked – Mexico, Spain, Vietnam, Iraq and so on.
That said, a reality check is due for WWII. Japan knew that their expansionism doomed them to a collision course with the US and that both would end up fighting for the control of the Pacific. It’s also clear that the US would have gone to war at the end, had they controlled their half of the ocean, and indeed there was a military build-up going on, and notably a reform of the whole heavy industry so that it could enter into war mode easily and quickly.
That said, Japan hit first, then declared war. And then Hitler, allied with Japan, decided to declare war too – which was seen as a foolish move by most of the Wehrmacht leadership as it would create the so-far-inexistant risk of an attack in Western Europe, with the dreaded 2nd front in Europe. Though one will wonder if the US would only have made war on Japan if Germany hadn’t declared war – my bet is that FDR would’ve managed to get Congress vote war on the entire Axis no matter what.
I’m also laughing at all the BS from arch-conservtive and libertarian as to how WWII was a war of choice, which is ultimately in the same league as the “we sacrificed ourselves to defend you, we fought for the sake of Europe, not for us”. All this is ridiculous. If (and that is a huge if) Germany and Japan had succeeded in controlling Europe and the Far East, wiping out entirely USSR and China, then UK would’ve been next, and then the only power left opposing them would have been the USA. In the long run, it would have been a matter of survival – particularly since the German offensive on Russia had merely stalled by this time, we were still 12 months before Stalingrad. P K Dick was a SF writer, but his Man in the High Castle is quite spot on as to the fate of the US if it had left the German and Japanese war machines go on. It wasn’t a selfless act of philanthropy that saw the US come in, it was because FDR knew that the war would come home if he didn’t act.
Of course, this doesn’t mean I buy at face value the “we saved Europe at D-Day” and “We had to nuke Japan otherwise war would’be gone on for years” arguments, which are equally BS in my opinion (the US had to invade in 1944 if they didn’t want to see a Stalinist takeover of all Europe, which would’ve put USSR at least par with the US for their chances in the coming cold war, if not with better chances of winning than the US by depriving it from the sizable European market / I don’t think there’s any certainty that the nukes scared the Japanese more than the Soviet marching through Manchuria and Korea, with the risk of having a part of Japan itself occupied by the commies, just like Germany, so I would suppose both had an equal weight).

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Mar 9 2005 13:19 utc | 42

Thanks Patriot and Clueless Joe.
I agree with all of the things you have written Patriot,except one subject.USA has attended WW2 because as Clueless Joe said they knew that if Germans and Japanese would have been successful soon or later they wuld be the target for them.At the same time you forget 2 more details.German submarines started to atack trade ships of USA and you all know Pearl Harbour attack of Japans.
Regards.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 12 2005 15:49 utc | 43

Clueless Joe: It is good to hear that you also confirm that many times ‘the US willingly engaged without being threatened or even attacked in their country – Mexico, Spain, Vietnam, Iraq and so on.’…
Thanks for your explanation/justification about why US had to ‘militarily engage’ with Japan and Germany at WWII; but my point is focusing on the fact that the US DID attack them killing hundreds of thousands of civilians…Interestingly enough, there was not a single bullet shot in USA during WWII (correct me if I am wrong…)
History of mankind witnessed many super powers in their respective ages: Roman Empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire which are the most influental of all…
And today, the US claims this position…
But applying ‘unproportional force’ is not the correct way (as was many times proved in history…).This might easily shift US to be a ‘Brutal super power’ instead of ‘a widely accepted influental super power’…The danger for US is to be short-lived super-power by only gaining the hatred of world majority (like Nazi-Germany…)
The US can win battles but not the war.To win the war, you need to win the hearts of people as a first rule. You need to provide security, justice, equality and better life conditions for winning the war! (US would better study -for example- the Ottoman Empire system which lasted 700 years in 3 continents consisted of 29 different nations)Ottomans provided security, justice, equality and better life conditions for his own citizens regardless of ethnic origins which kept the Ottoman State strong for hundreds of years…One could easily see many army commanders (pasha), governors (vali), treasurers (hazinedar/defterdar), ministers (vezir) and even prime minister (bash-vezir)who have Greek, Jewish, Armenian, Arabic origins alongside with Turks…All communities in Ottoman Empire felt that they were the basic forming elements of the Ottoman State. They owned the state together and worked for its rise together.Actually the rise of state meant the rise of their communities… (With the ‘winds of nationalism’ from West; the Ottoman communities also wanted to have their own independent states at around 20th Century…And they had it..Although one can still argue that the power vacuum after Ottoman State still could not be filled in Balkans,Middle East and Caucausus regions)
Countries in these regions are terribly in need of strong cooperation and peace ‘at all times’ for their own well beings, as once provided under Ottoman umbrella…Today’s EU (as a candidate) should hurry up to fill in this vacuum before too late. But EU should enlarge its vision first to be capable of provoding an umbrella on different religion&ethnic communities, like once Ottomans done with great success..Remember; ‘difference’ is not bad, but ‘difference is difference’ that must simply be accepted. One- colored painting wouldnt really be very attractive compared to a multi-colored one…
Salute!

Posted by: PATRIOT | Mar 12 2005 18:29 utc | 44

Hi,
I almost read the whole articles. And I also finished the book “METAL STORM” in 4 hours time just as a friend did.
When we come to the book I do not share the opinion that the book is a beatiful example of literature. THe first feeling which I felt after finishing the book was “wow, what an exiting book.” but also “I have te rewrite it”. Being an exiting book does not make it literally good. The characters are not filled. THe feelings that they feel seem most like very unnatural. It says that the population surprised by the US attack just sits and
wait for 12 days to understand that they are occupied. It also has a secret anti-Kurdish essence claiming that the Kurdish population will join the invaders, unless with the harsh response of the secret military undercover operations. Lets not forget that during the Armenian conflict in 1915 and during the invasion of France Kurds were also fighting against the Western armies. I dont claim that there are no Kurds whose minds are filled with micro-ethnicity. Where some of our Turkish guys also make micro-ethnicity claming that everybody in Turkey must be a Turk in not also language but also blood (For a long time they claimed that Kurds are another tribe of ethnic Turks). The reality is living on the remnants of the Huge Ottoman Empire, we are here with our other Muslim nations including Kurds, Albanians, Georgians, Cechens, Pomaks, Bosnians, Tatars, Arabs, Lazs and etc. which are not in blood a Turk. But there comes the big question what a Turk is. The answer is that those of the nations left after the big collapse of the Empire, who left on Anatolia to live together are all called Turks. The country which we call Ottoman Empire or more Truly Rumeli(THe Roman Lands) have being called as Turkey nearly for a thousand years by the Europeans themselves. But this word Turk is different from the other word Turk. Being Turkish meant to becoming a part of a society which was Muslim and spoke Turkish. And this society included the most genious of their times such as Mimar(Architect) Sinan (possibly an Armenian or Greek), Sokullu Mehmet Pasha (originally a Croatian) and Kılıç Ali Pasha (originally an Italian converted to Islam and saved the left of the Ottoman fleet from distruction in Lepanton (İnebahtı). During in just a century of 15th or 16th it is estimated that nearyl 300.000 Europeans were converted to Islam (not by the Ottomans, but with themselves because there were no such policy as Islamizating the Christian population). The last commender of Budhapesht which fall dead while defending the city was an Albanian Ottoman commander, which has a tombstane writing as “brave enemy”. So being a Turk was something being a Roman or in our times mostly being an American. Claiming that every individual living in Turkey is an ethnic Turks is bombing this upper social identity.
So everybody can be sure that all of this Turks(!) will defend their country to the most.
The deep problem in the novel being unable to tell the feelings of the individual and society can be related to the claim that this book was just a translation originally written in US.
I know that the US and Turkish army are ready for a hell scenario where these two NATO members collide with each other. So I do not believe that Turkey will be cought in surprise on such an attack.
On the other hand one thing is true that facing the US army on the ground and letting them to use all their deadly artillery on our army would be disastrous for Turkey. But technology can do nothing if your troops are on the ground.
THe reality of the scenario,
seems to be a little bit impossible to me. US shall not attack over Turkey. Because Turkey is not his real aim for controlling the world. His real rivals are China, Russia, EU and possibly India for the following decades. Attacking such a powerfull entity will give nothing to the US. Even if they manage to get over Turkey, the force and sources they used to beat Turkey will cause a vacuum in the international ground which will be filled by other rivals.
But I do belive that Us will charge and even attack on Syria, Iran and possibly Lebanon. What the Turk are curious that now they have a bear in their room, which do not actually know where to step. US is totally destroying the better than nothing stability in Middle East region paving the way for their nice guy Israel. This will cause a chaos in the region where Turkey managed to survive for the last century. Which means US is opening the pandoras box. Especially when you take Iran the long past rival of Turkey in the region after a continious warfare of nearly 100 years a peace was established during the beginning of 17th century. And I do not belive that by simply destroying a few dictators US will be able to completely controll the new factors, which will mostly be tribal and national.
You can not force people for democracy. First they have to feel the need….

Posted by: Melih | Mar 17 2005 13:12 utc | 45

Hi,
I almost read the whole articles. And I also finished the book “METAL STORM” in 4 hours time just as a friend did.
When we come to the book I do not share the opinion that the book is a beatiful example of literature. THe first feeling which I felt after finishing the book was “wow, what an exiting book.” but also “I have te rewrite it”. Being an exiting book does not make it literally good. The characters are not filled. THe feelings that they feel seem most like very unnatural. It says that the population surprised by the US attack just sits and
wait for 12 days to understand that they are occupied. It also has a secret anti-Kurdish essence claiming that the Kurdish population will join the invaders, unless with the harsh response of the secret military undercover operations. Lets not forget that during the Armenian conflict in 1915 and during the invasion of France Kurds were also fighting against the Western armies. I dont claim that there are no Kurds whose minds are filled with micro-ethnicity. Where some of our Turkish guys also make micro-ethnicity claming that everybody in Turkey must be a Turk in not also language but also blood (For a long time they claimed that Kurds are another tribe of ethnic Turks). The reality is living on the remnants of the Huge Ottoman Empire, we are here with our other Muslim nations including Kurds, Albanians, Georgians, Cechens, Pomaks, Bosnians, Tatars, Arabs, Lazs and etc. which are not in blood a Turk. But there comes the big question what a Turk is. The answer is that those of the nations left after the big collapse of the Empire, who left on Anatolia to live together are all called Turks. The country which we call Ottoman Empire or more Truly Rumeli(THe Roman Lands) have being called as Turkey nearly for a thousand years by the Europeans themselves. But this word Turk is different from the other word Turk. Being Turkish meant to becoming a part of a society which was Muslim and spoke Turkish. And this society included the most genious of their times such as Mimar(Architect) Sinan (possibly an Armenian or Greek), Sokullu Mehmet Pasha (originally a Croatian) and Kılıç Ali Pasha (originally an Italian converted to Islam and saved the left of the Ottoman fleet from distruction in Lepanton (İnebahtı). During in just a century of 15th or 16th it is estimated that nearyl 300.000 Europeans were converted to Islam (not by the Ottomans, but with themselves because there were no such policy as Islamizating the Christian population). The last commender of Budhapesht which fall dead while defending the city was an Albanian Ottoman commander, which has a tombstane writing as “brave enemy”. So being a Turk was something being a Roman or in our times mostly being an American. Claiming that every individual living in Turkey is an ethnic Turks is bombing this upper social identity.
So everybody can be sure that all of this Turks(!) will defend their country to the most.
The deep problem in the novel being unable to tell the feelings of the individual and society can be related to the claim that this book was just a translation originally written in US.
I know that the US and Turkish army are ready for a hell scenario where these two NATO members collide with each other. So I do not believe that Turkey will be cought in surprise on such an attack.
On the other hand one thing is true that facing the US army on the ground and letting them to use all their deadly artillery on our army would be disastrous for Turkey. But technology can do nothing if your troops are on the ground.
THe reality of the scenario,
seems to be a little bit impossible to me. US shall not attack over Turkey. Because Turkey is not his real aim for controlling the world. His real rivals are China, Russia, EU and possibly India for the following decades. Attacking such a powerfull entity will give nothing to the US. Even if they manage to get over Turkey, the force and sources they used to beat Turkey will cause a vacuum in the international ground which will be filled by other rivals.
But I do belive that Us will charge and even attack on Syria, Iran and possibly Lebanon. What the Turk are curious that now they have a bear in their room, which do not actually know where to step. US is totally destroying the better than nothing stability in Middle East region paving the way for their nice guy Israel. This will cause a chaos in the region where Turkey managed to survive for the last century. Which means US is opening the pandoras box. Especially when you take Iran the long past rival of Turkey in the region after a continious warfare of nearly 100 years a peace was established during the beginning of 17th century. And I do not belive that by simply destroying a few dictators US will be able to completely controll the new factors, which will mostly be tribal and national.
You can not force people for democracy. First they have to feel the need….

Posted by: Melih | Mar 17 2005 13:13 utc | 46

Melih.I read your article and I agree with nearly all of your comments.Just I do not agree about your opinion like Turkey is not USA’s real rival.It is not correct.In today’s world,if you ceck the last 3 years,the only country which really acts against USA is Turkey.Even Russia,China or EU talks louder but when there is time for action they sit still.But since the beginning of 2nd Iraqi war,although Turkish government wanted US Soldiers to use Turkish lands for invasion of Iraq Turkish nation and patriot parliament members refused them.Then we saw 7 Turkish soldiers captured by US soldiers and arrested them for 2 days,put bags on their heads,then Iraqi Kurds made demonstrations against Turkey,then Turkish secret policemen were killed,then USA suppored PKK terrorists in Nortern Iraq by not touching them,then etc.etc.etc.I am happy for the anti-Americanism in Turkey because we must learn to trust just ourselves;not a big Atlantic friend.Regards.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 18 2005 21:54 utc | 47

It’s a saying in Turkiye that “Turks don’t have friends other than Turks.” so it doesn’t matter if we are now good with americans or greeks all they want is the beautiful Anatolia which we took over centuries ago. what Turkiye should do is get together with other Turkish countries such as Azerbajian or Turkmenistan etc. and make a big Turkish Union

Posted by: Oguz | Mar 20 2005 10:32 utc | 48

Çetin bey bunların kokune kibrit suyu dokmek lazim 🙂 kitabin gelecekte bir gun gercek olucagini herkes biliyor bunlara guven olmaz bunlar dostum dedigi ulkelere bile cekinmeyen iskenceci mahluklar bunlara hayvan bile diyemiyorum hayvanlara yazik olur kendi kapisindaki pislikleri temizlesinler ondan sonra turkiye adina iskence raporu duzenlesinler iyice tirssinlar artik turkiyedekiler amerikaya ve amerikalilardan nefret ediyorlar artik….
Not:bunu ingilizceye cevirip benim adima yazarsan cok makbule gececektir simdiden tesekkur ederim…

Posted by: Ufuk Nalbant | Mar 20 2005 13:21 utc | 49

CETIN, Melih, Ufuk: I think Turkey has only one way out from all of these ‘nightmare scenarios’; to have a very very strong and solid economy!!! This should be the only and only target of Turkey from now on! We must transform the country to a production base…Remember the Ottomans; they reached their political peak when they reached their economical peak…Then they declined in parallel with their economical decline…[But to the contrary of the general belief that Ottoman economy was solely based on the ‘conquerance of new lands’;the Ottoman economy was mostly based on ‘very strong’ tax collection system running efficiently all over the Empire…The biggest crime at that time, was the failure to pay one’s own tax correctly to the State!! (this is the case nowadays in USA and EU…)]
Anyway, what can be done today is to transform the whole country to a production base?..Both industrial and agricultural…Then one factor is deadly important to achieve this target: to have easy ‘access to cheap(-est) energy…Because,with expensive energy, it is impossible to realize the transformation for Turkey, and impossible to reach to economic peak as well..So what are the Turkey’s options for accessing to cheap energy?
1)Access to cheap Oil&Gas and/or 2)Nuclear Energy (cheapest known electricity production AT PRESENT!)…Regarding Nuclear Energy; the West is really utilizing it to its fullest!! (e.g. quantity of Nuclear Energy Centrals TODAY=>USA :113 ,France: 74 ,Japan: 52 ,Turkey: 0 [zero!!!]) But they do not let ‘developing countries’ to acquire Nuclear Energy!! Since ’70s, for example, Turkey has been making many attempts to acquire Nuclear technology, BUT each time Turkish bids were stopped by some sort of ‘(so-called)Environmentalist NGOs of the West (e.g. Greenpeace, Friends of Earth and many others…)Would you like to know WHY?
a.Some of them argues that today’s Turkey does not have enough scientific level to run a Nuclear Central..(I am sure Bulgaria and Armenia has!! this scientific level so they are currently running their own Nuclear Centrals near our Borders…)
b. Some argues that Turkey is an eartquake country, so it is impossible to run a Nuclear Central in Turkey! (But Japan is the No:1 Eartquake country in the world and they are currently running more than 50 Nuclear Centrals ..)We can simply build the same centrals with Japan in Turkey…
The day Turkey acquires Nuclear Energy; will be a milestone in Turkish history…Besides, having a nuclear technology can allow Turkey to have her own Nuclear Weapon in the future as well…Why only the West +Israel is privileged to have it, but not any other country!!!? Have you ever thought about it??

Posted by: Patriot | Mar 22 2005 13:32 utc | 51

“Stabbed in the Back”?
Rummie tries to blame Turkey for US failure in Iraq.
Oh, it’s just everybody’s fault but his.

Posted by: DeAnander | Mar 22 2005 20:09 utc | 52

some great reads for anyone interested
“by way of deception” victor ostrovsky & clait hoy
google alibris you’ll find it for $2.50
also a recent book i started reading is “bad news” by tom fenton

Posted by: Khamza | Mar 23 2005 5:57 utc | 53

claire hoy sorry for the misspell

Posted by: Khamza | Mar 23 2005 5:59 utc | 54

I suppose Rumsfelds “old Europe” remark to Turkey is aimed to embarass the ruling elite (in both) in failing to board the freedom express, and their ability to mesmerize their respective populations. He must be thinking, WTF is the matter with you, can’t you see what we’ve done here in America. Haha. Only in America is intrinsic culture (and national identity) sold so easily down the river for a blue light special. The Queen of Narcisism that Rumsfeld.

Posted by: anna missed | Mar 23 2005 11:14 utc | 55

I agree PATRIOT,DeAnender and anna missed.And thank you Kamza for the new ooks info.
About nuclear weapons I am much more worried.West tell that they are afraid of Iran or N.Koea cause they may have or they have nucclear weapons.But what about USA?Now USA is ruled by the most stupid president ever and the government is the most radical government ever.Who can guaantee that USA will not use its nuclear weapons again?And i am sure that the technology of nuclear energy or weapons is no more a problem.There is already an R&D centra in K.Cekmece for many years and foret about our “western bros”but we know hat our country has technical universities which graduate Nuclear Eergy Engineers.In addition to this everybody knows that Turkey is one of the richest nuclear raw material rich countries in the world.So,as the urkish idiom…”There is flavour,there s sgar,there is margarin;so what’s up?Why do we wait for HELVA?”I am sure that if it will be a necessity Turkey can easily hae nuclear energy and nuclear weapons.I do not mean that Turkey must do that but if the world has a superpower having a president named Bush and as this man controls nuclear weapons then surely all other countries in the world need it.It is painful but if USA wants to destroy the world with nuclear weapons then al other countries have the right to accompany them.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 23 2005 19:22 utc | 56

Mr. Cetin,we must be careful for the coming days:)everybody knows that the book will be reality in the future.Noone can rust these men.These men do not care if that country is their exfriend or no when attacking.hey are torturers and I can not even call them animals because it will be a missbehaviour for animals.First of all they must clean their very dirty history then they may arrange Reports about Torture in Turkey.They must really afraid from Turkey now because people i Turkey now are very much full of anger against USA and Americans.
Ufuk Bey,benim kendi yorumumla çevirim bu kadar.Sadece ilk kısım biraz ağır olur diye yumuşatarak çevirdim.Kusura bakma.Sonuçta çok da antipatik olmamak lazım bu tarz tartışma sayfalarında.Saygılar.
The above message is the English translation f the message belonging to Ufuk Nalbant posted on 20th of March.Regards.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 23 2005 19:33 utc | 57

Mr. Cetin,we must be careful for the coming days:)everybody knows that the book will be reality in the future.Noone can trust these men.These men do not care if that country is their exfriend or not when attacking.They are torturers and I can not even call them animals because it will be a missbehaviour for animals.First of all they must clean their very dirty history then they may arrange Reports about Torture in Turkey.They must really afraid from Turkey now because people in Turkey now are very much full of anger against USA and Americans.
Ufuk Bey,benim kendi yorumumla çevirim bu kadar.Sadece ilk kısım biraz ağır olur diye yumuşatarak çevirdim.Kusura bakma.Sonuçta çok da antipatik olmamak lazım bu tarz tartışma sayfalarında.Saygılar.
The above message is the English translation of the message belonging to Ufuk Nalbant posted on 20th of March.Regards.
And sorry for sending the message for the second time because I have a problem with the computer so that I have many letter mistakes.

Posted by: CETIN | Mar 23 2005 19:36 utc | 58

Thank you for the translation, Cetin.
There is a new post from Riverbend

Remember when the fear was still fresh- and the terror was relatively new- and it was possible to be shocked and awed in Iraq?

Posted by: beq | Mar 23 2005 19:51 utc | 59

a great website full of truth about the past and present
A Website for Seekers of Truth About Zionism
This site was created to provide historical documentation refuting the misconception that all Jewry supports Zionism (the existence of the so-called “State of Israel”) for website visitors seeking information on the history of Zionism, its historical and current day impact on the Jewish community worldwide and the danger it presents to us all.
For decades renowned Rabbinical leaders and scholars have opposed the creation of a “Jewish State”, supporting their opposition with words of the scriptures and of the Torah, as being diametrically opposed to the ideology of Judaism. We have provided many such quotations for the inquiring website visitor who is seeking such information.
Although there are those who refuse to accept the teachings of our Rabbis and will continue to support the Zionist state, there are also many who are totally unaware of the history of Zionism and its contradiction to the beliefs of Torah-True Jews.
Learn more about Zionism And Anti-Semitism
This article provides more information that demonstrates that far from being the saviors of the Jewish people, the Zionists are the true self-hating Jews who have had nothing but contempt and outright hatred for the Jewish people and Judaism. This article proves that anti-Semitism has been the oxygen and lifeblood of the Zionists throughout the ages to the present day.
By contrast, we anti-Zionist Jews having been doing all we can to reduce hatred of Jews by proclaiming the true nature of the Jewish religion in contrast to the heresy and idolatry of Zionism. We hope this will help Jews awaken from the brainwashing of the Zionists.
Over the recent years there has been a dramatic rise in hate rhetoric and hate crimes targeted toward Jews:
In Turkey…horrifying suicide bombings at two synagogues left 25 people dead and hundreds more injured.
In Britain…Scotland Yard recently warned Britain’s Jewish Community that it faced imminent terrorist attacks after police spotted and questioned a group of “tourists” taking covert videotape of the Jewish community buildings in London.
In France…a caution was issued after an arson attack gutted a suburban paris Jewish school–the latest incident in a frightening wave of French anti-Semitism.
BBC – UK: “In recent weeks, a poll for the European Commission suggesting that EU citizens see Israel as the biggest threat to world peace caused outrage among Israelis.”
Anti-Semitic acts are on the rise across Europe and beyond. From Antwerp and London to Berlin and Istanbul, Jews are living in fear.
On November 17, 2003 Zionist leader, Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister, told Jews in Italy the best way to escape “a great wave of anti-Semitism” is to move and settle in the state of Israel. This has been the Zionist ideology from the beginning to the present time.
True Torah Jews is working hard to declare to the world the difference between Jews and Zionism. It is important that the people of world understand the difference and therefore not link the actions of Zionists to religious Jews. True Torah Jews is not alone in its assessment of the danger of Zionists to Jews worldwide. Jewish leaders in France, Turkey and Italy have recently spoken out against Zionists for using anti-Semitism for their benefits. For example,
PARIS – 18 Nov. 2003 (Reuters) “Roger Cukierman, head of the Crif umbrella group of Jewish organizations, said Ambassador Nissim Zvili may have exaggerated the situation in the hope of winning immigrants for Israel. Zvili spoke of rising concern on Saturday after a Jewish school near paris was firebombed in an attack that prompted the government to launch a fight against a “new anti-Semitism”, coming mostly from the immigrant Muslim community. ”
TURKEY – Tovah Lazaroff – 21 Nov 2003
“Turkish Jewish leaders accused Israel Thursday of exploiting the twin synagogue bombings Saturday to make a public relations point about anti-Semitism and immigration. Executive Vice president of the Turkish Jewish Community Lina Filiba called the Jerusalem post from Istanbul, upset about the way the Israeli media and officials have portrayed the bombings, particularly articles and comments talking about the need to bring Turkish Jews to Israel in light of the attacks anti-Semitic nature.”
OXFORD, BRITAIN – Brian Klug, a senior research fellow in philosophy at St Benet’s Hall, Oxford, and a founder member of the Jewish Forum for Justice and Human Rights, published an article in “The Guardian” entitled: No, anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. He describes how the British foreign secretary, Arthur Balfour (sponsor of the 1905 Aliens Act to restrict Jewish immigration to the UK), wanted the government to commit itself to a Jewish homeland in palestine, his declaration was delayed – not by anti-Semites but by leading figures in the British Jewish community. They included a Jewish member of the cabinet who called Balfour’s pro-Zionism “anti-Semitic in result”.
It is for those who seek the truth that this website is maintained. We are also publicizing the position of True-Torah Jews through newspaper advertisements and radio broadcasts.
True Torah Jews is a non-profit organization dedicated to spreading the word to the people of the world that not all Jews support the Zionist state. It is our hope that through this knowledge and understanding peace may be achieved.
Not surprisingly, we have received negative comments from those who do not agree with our beliefs and who refuse to accept a position different from their own. The negative comments, however, have been far outweighed by the positive response to our website, newspaper and radio advertisements and we are encouraged to continue in our efforts to provide information to open-minded visitors.
Your continued support and encouragement is appreciated!
TRUE TORAH JEWS

Posted by: Kha | Mar 23 2005 21:35 utc | 60

I want to greet everybody from Germany.
Though I dont have much too add to the perfect comments from Cetin, I just want to point at the twist of public opnion as regards the american governments.
I can assure you all that in the Clinton Era turkish population had a very wellcoming attitude against the americans, but with the assumption of the presidency by George Bush, I believe this mood was replaced by an embitterment.
The real reason for this I see actually in the unilateralist ready-to-intervene neocon politics. I feel now vindicated after the candidacy of Wolfowitz for WB job. It is nothing short of a challenge against the international regime and international law, which is in my opinion one of the most important triumphs of cumulative human intellect.
Best regards
Gokhan Reinhard

Posted by: Gokhan | Mar 27 2005 13:00 utc | 61

ECONOMIC STORM
I for one would like to hear from CETIN or other Turks, on a statistical rather than US currency basis, what *percentage* of their income goes to rent, food, clothing, fuel, taxes and savings? What percentage of the Turkish GDP goes towards defense versus health and human services versus foreign debt service? Do Turks have ‘free’ public education and health care, or is it only for the wealthy? What is the level of literacy of those 60 million under age 40, and what level of technology are their lives today?
I traveled in Turkey a couple decades ago with a US-born friend who grew up in Turkey on the US military base there. We stayed in this small village, when Turkey was at that time under martial law. Although Turkish soldiers mostly turned a blind eye, still the ‘party scene’ was much subdued than in Greece, [versus eg Rhodos].
Still, one night the town generator failed, and the entire village was soon lit with candles, and the pulsing sound of acoustical instruments and people talking and laughing. Never forget that.
And entire town glowing in candles and laughter.
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful country.

Posted by: tante aime | Dec 2 2005 7:41 utc | 62

hi friands
the truth is not only turkish people, the truth is energy something etc. in my opinion there is nothing more than energy strategy. Against this strategy, this may be turkish or arnavuts, filistins, or arabs etc., vill be directly an enemy for the actors of this strategy. you, we, or else, nations are not important for this actors. the goverments are only pinokyos. this is the fact… who knows may be some times later germany etc. think about it if some one find a bor metal under germany that the unlimited what will happen then. if saome thing happens like that you will see germany will be attacked by usa or uk or some one pinokyo of the actors of this energy strategy….
ı m sorry about my english 🙁

Posted by: LordSoth | Jan 5 2006 11:44 utc | 63

Hi Tante Aime,
Let me try to answer some of your questions;
Regarding percentages of my income, I think you are referring to the term “disposable income”. Being an IT professional working and living in Istanbul, I can say that roughly %30-%50 of my monthly salary is spent on regular costs thus rest are “disposable”. I think this figure must be somewhat below Istanbul’s average though, as I’m living little bit off the centre which spares great sum of money.
Some figures from http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html
Military expenditures – percent of GDP: 5.3% (2003)
GDP (purchasing power parity): $551.6 billion (2005 est.)
These are figures I found on some websites:
Education budget – percent of GDP: 4.1% (2006)
Health budget – percent of GDP: 6.6% (2006)
Percentages for education and health are well below OECD averages.
The biggest percentage of the 2006 budget is allocated(roughly 31%) to interests of the debts!!!
We have ‘free’ public education and health care although private institutions for both exist. Private ones are not always those which provide higher quality services. I for example coming from a middle class family, after graduating a private high school, went to state universities for higher education.
Out of the top ten best turkish universities, roughly 50% are state universities.
We have a social security system with huge deficits. Reforms are done but the problem is huge in this area…
Level of the literacy is:
total population: 86.5%
male: 94.3%
female: 78.7% (2003 est.)
In 1920 it was lower than 5%. But still shamefully low. I have no figures for those under 40. Must be somewhat higher. I wouldn’t be very optimistic though, as especially (- actually only) in the east, there is a strong resistance against girls attending schools.
Currently, state institutions, public sector and ngo’s are running long term campaigns to convince fathers to send their daughters to schools and break the tradition.
Your experience with the generator is most likely a distant memory as I don’t think that there aren’t many villages left without electricity or telephony if any.
Latest tecnology is used in every aspect of the life although sometimes not very well distributed to all classes. Internet is widely used, internet shopping volume doubling itself every year, gsm network is covering almost all of turkey, especially private health institions are deploying latest technology, greatest exporters in the
country are electronics or car producers.
Major problem in the industry was inefficiency, which got pretty straightened after the last economical crisis in 2001.
Major challenge in Turkey nowadays is redefiniton of the orthodox westernization set by our republic’s founder Kemal Ataturk whom we owe our country, somewhat 80 years ago. Several generations followed his ideas word by word as it was trully needed then. but now these thoughts are challenged by the increasing democratical participation and changing world conjuncture. Despite the wide consensus on Ataturk’s general directions, a huge debate is going on in every aspect of the social life for possible actual adaptations. The debate has been very healty -sometimes very intense though- until now. I hope it will go on like this.

Posted by: Ozgur | Feb 12 2006 17:23 utc | 64

I would like to reply to Tante Aime.I am very sorry to reply this much late just becase of seeing his/her message late.First of all Özgür’s message is a general explanation including the answers of your questions.In addition to these valuable informations I would like to tell you that electricity shortage is no more a problem in Turkey if you do not consider some villages in several parts of Anatolia.So,you are very lucky to have that experience.Life in Istanbul is really very expensive when you compare with other parts of Turkey but it is very normal.If you compare New York with other American cities or Tokyo with other Japanese cities or London with other English cities you will realize that this is a normal situation.Meanwhile nearly 40% of economy of Turkey is based in Istanbul and around Istanbul.The younger generation is certainly much more luckier than the generation of 50s,60s,70s and 80s.Now in all big cities of Turkey social life is very clorful.Young people go out for cinemas,bars,discos,theatres.To be honest although they are luckier,they are less patriotic than the previous generations.So western-especially American oriented governments were successful in depolitizing the younger generation.But…There is sth very strange in Turkey and Turkish nation.I will tell the followings not because I am a Turkish or I am a racist.But I will tell the followings as a person who has travelled all around the world and has quiet good opinion and expression about world nations,world culture.Turks are genius people.They are really very practical,they do not need so much bureacracy to solve a problem,to finish a job.For sure I am a nationalist(but not racist,not fachist)because I am a Kemalist and for sure I am proud of being a Turk.I suggest all other nations to be friend of Turks because the only and biggest problem of Turks are they aren’t being ruled properly for hundreds of years except the wonderful years during the leadership of ATATURK the Greatest!But the strength at the character of Turks never disappear.That is why they make films like MIDNIGHT EXPRESS,that is why they let people believe that Turks were genocide makers,that is why they are trying to show their people that Turks are Arabs(I don’t have an prolem with Arabs and besides I have many Arabic friends.But we are not Arabs and Arabs are not Turks.).Because there are some governments on this world who want to control other nations,especially Turkish Nation.So,by creating economical problems,by creating unreal ethnic problems-Kurdish problem-they are trying to destabilize Turkey.Unfortunately until now they have become succesful.But for the future I have hope.I believe my nation.
And to be honest we are not Europeans,we are Asians,Mediterreneans,Balkanians,Anatolians and Europeans.We are the mixture of many cultures.That is why the only place on earth where you can see mosque,sinagogue and church in peace is Turkey and Istanbul has wonderful examples of this which you can catch mosque,sinagogue and church in one picture.
Reards
Çetin Taş

Posted by: ÇETİN TAŞ | Mar 6 2006 18:09 utc | 65

I ve just read some of the comments but most of Cetins`… i live in NY nowadays but grew up in Turkey and read the book too… Anyways i actually just wanna say that i know one of the writers, Orkun, and he has nothing to do with CIA or any kindda CIA operation as u claimed in one of your comments up above (pardonne me if i m mistaking) i am a nationalist too but this book is just a pesimist scenario which we all should think about as Turkish nation… Sometimes a tiny hole makes us pay more attention and save ourselves from the big falling. I think this book has the same vision. Anyways it s really sad that we all dealing with goddamn politics altough we have universal problems PEACE UP… TURKEY RULEZZ… 🙂

Posted by: USG | Apr 7 2006 9:56 utc | 66

i didnt read the book, but i can say one thing ,
america cant be trusted!!
look they call us always good allies ,a strategic partner etc…
bla bla bla, at the end they feed our enemy helping pkk they dont allow us to do it our self ,look at the region we are just pions we are not allow to do wich is good for our intresses but they come to turkiye to ask evry possible help that tukiye can provide usa to deal with iran or iraq.there for we must do what we have to do in intresse of turkiye and not listening to other nations

Posted by: karamehmet | Apr 30 2006 12:28 utc | 67

Well got to read the book, but I cant say that it was a new point of view on this matter, since the 90’s I constantly buy a magazine which is called “Defence and Aerospace, Strategy” which every now and then, has an extra labeled “Conspiracy Theory”.
I remember reading an artcile writen by a retired Turkish general,he wrote exactly what and how things will happen 10-15 years into the future with the US, EU and NATO.
He also commented that the economic crisis that Turkey would face in the future (and faced a couple years later), will be directly linked to a freak NATO meeting that had happened and he he had heard from a fellow US general, on “How to deal with an un-attackable friendly country in the Meditaranean” I wont go into the details to much but many things that have happened since then
agree 100% to what he wrote. This book somehow reminded me of this generals conspiracy theory.
A US – Turkey war wouldnt be the fantasy that is described in some of the writings that I have read here written above, as no nation with brains who has enough military weight, North, South and East of Turkey would support such a thing.
Regardless if this did happen. I would love to see the shock on the faces of the US-Strategists, as now days Turkey is being forced to make its own military pacts and doctarines, which will most probably be in 3 variants, containing only Black Sea countries (aka Black Sea Forum), or just Russia, Kazakistan, China, Korea (Asian Union), or even a Arab / Islamic Union, either of which will lead to the military unique’ness equipment used in Turkey through various bought and produced technologies.
Nuclear Bomb in a city in the US, is a cowards way of fighting and does not in any way suit the Turkic ways. If a US city will be raised by turkics it would be by pure military occupation.
The kurds, have a right to call themselves whatever they want, and they have a right to gain money and land; to practically sell out to and be protected by symphatising foreign nations that have agendas in the countries that these people reside in.
Unfortunately for the kurdic ethnicities involved in such things and with false hopes, neither an Turk, nor a Persian, nor an Arab whatever be their ethnic origins can not and will not tolerate self-righteousness and the dividing of their countries for the cause of these peoples. In any scenario, the area will have to be stabilized, by countries of this area.
For the Turkic nationalists, and the so be Kemalists, I advize you to forget these notions completely, as these are solely European notions their history and present day is blotted with it.
Turks were forced into these feelings as there wasnt any other way when the Ottoman lands were shrunk, in the aftermath of WW1.
But whilst the European countries slayed, converted and edicted people of different ethnicities and religions. We as Ottomans, or Turkey accepted them and live with these different peoples as our own ever since, be they be Spanish Jews, Russian Staroobratsi, Turks,bosniaks,bulgars from Bulgaria or ex-Yugoslavia.. Nationalism destroys our culture, as it should be on understanding and acceptance of cultures and ways to improve and add to our own.

Posted by: Makedon | May 2 2006 11:55 utc | 68

i cheer this thread is alive and still kicking. turkey is showing some balls standing up to the criminal

Posted by: annie | May 2 2006 17:41 utc | 69

Can anybody send me a pdf version of Metal Firtina please 😉 to waltzpur@hotmail.com.
Thanks in advance,
Walter

Posted by: Walter | Dec 27 2006 20:02 utc | 70