Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 30, 2005
US’s best weapon against terrorists: France

It is not because we make fun of the “War on Terra” and criticise the catastrophic war in Iraq that the fight against terrorism is not real and does not need to be pursued. Quite to the contrary. Of course, and despite all the public pronouncements that “everything has changed”, and criticisms of “September 10” mindset, this is mostly a matter of law enforcement and intelligence gathering. And in that business, despite the occasional noise from the usual suspects, guess who the US can count on more than any other country?

France.

As many people tend to forget (or, like the US State Dept, to stay silent about), France is probably (with the obvious exception of Israel) the country with the longest and bloodiest experience of Islamist terrorism, going back more than 20 years.

See here and here lists of the major attacks in France. As you can see, there were (among others) 3 big waves of bombings, two in 1986 and one 1995. In each case, you had bombs in metros, restaurants, large stores, with each time a few people killed and several dozen injured. When it happens several times a week, or once a week for a couple of months, and most of it in Paris, it creates a real climate of fear – a lot of people take the metro or go shopping, and when it starts happening several times, you cannot wonder (even if the odds are actually really low) if it’s going to strike you (remember the sniper 2 years ago).

The first time, the interior minister famously claimed that “we would terrorize the terrorists” (that was after the second bombing in the first series in 1986). This did not work…as was shown a few days later. Blame games were played, accusations were thrown around, the usual suspects were blamed (Iran, Lybia, PLO), and a lot of noise was made while the bombings went on.
The investigations were started under the old existing rules of procedure. After the whole series of bombings, it appeared necessary to strengthen the ability of police to conduct wide-ranging enquiries into the terrorist networks, their financing channels, their logistics. Special anti-terrorist laws were put in place, along with a specialised group of investigating magistrates, and police corps. Basically, they created the concept that any action which can be, directly or indirectly, tied to terrorism could be prosecuted under the new laws, which also allowed for extended preventive detention (i.e. detention without being charged), increased periods before a lawyer could be called in, and much stiffer sentences for criminal activities associated with terrorism. These reforms also put in place coordination structures (around that team of investigative magistrates), with the associated specialised police forces, and an emphasis on international data gathering and exchange (especially within Europe).
At the same time, the Renseignements Généraux (RG), the French political police (yes, we have that) was told to refocus from communist/trotskyst groups to islamic groups, along with the DST, the domestic counter-espionage body. Mosques were infiltrated (often created with foreign funds and led by foreign imams, they were places of proselyting for all imported Islamic tendencies, including wahabism or the Algerian GIA), as well as all other Muslim organisations or associations. The RG and DST recruited a lot of French Arab-speakers (of the Muslim population in France, about half is French – whether French-born or naturalised – and the other half are foreigners) – contrary to the information now become “common wisom”, many of them are well integrated in France, feel fully French, and are quite happy to serve in the police force or other such bodies – and many do -it’s normal.

The terrorists who did the 1986 attacks were eventually linked to Iran (because we were helping Iraq back then…) arrested and sentenced to jail in 1987 and are still in jail today (except for one, Wahid Gordji, an employee of the Iranian embassy, who was expelled after France and Iran broke their diplomatic relations and blockaded each other’s embassies. Some of the French hostages in Lebanon were also released). Those that did the 1995 bombings were identified after a few weeks; one of their leaders was killed by the police when trying to escape and the others were arrested, except for their financier, based in London, whom the Brits refused to extradite because they considered that his rights would not be protected while in France…

The lesson has been, in any case, that the combination of painstaking police work, network infliltration, along with diplomacy (usually quiet, but not always) to kill off support from other countries, when combined with an extended and very tough package of police intimidation rights (especially the long preventive detentions) works. No need to invade Algeria, to bomb Lybia or whatever else could have been “satisfying” for the French leadership back then.

Some of these measures clearly make civil rights defenders very unhappy, but there are some limitations, and there is due process in the end, which so far has allowed to limit abuses. (Some abuse happened when the goal was more to generate headlines at convenient moments rather than actually fighting terrorism – people would be arrested, the politicians would make the statements they wanted/needed, and many of the people arrested would be quietly, and in a few cases not so quietly, liberated soon afterwards. The appellate courts have been pretty vigilant there. Maybe we’ve been also been lucky to have quite professional magistrates doing that job. As quoted in a November 2004 article from the Washington Post: “At the same time, Tubiana and other defense attorneys acknowledged that French counterterrorism investigators generally make efficient use of the tools at their disposal.”

The most famous of these, Juge Jean-Louis Bruguière, has become a hero in anti-terrorist circles, for his tough rhetoric against terrorism, his obvious knowledge of the various Islamist groups, and his willingness to make his case for tougher laws publicly.

To get an idea of how popular he has become in US conservative circles, see how his declarations made headlines in the conservative press, even when it was going against the wisdom of the moment, as this January 2003 article in Newsmax, , the rabidly right wing publication, shows:

Bush’s Rubicon: War on Iraq Risks Global Muslim Terrorism
Arnaud de Borchgrave
NewsMax.com Wires
Friday, Jan. 31, 2003
WASHINGTON – The most experienced counter-terrorist investigator in the Western world is France’s Jean-Louis Bruguiere. He is not campaigning against a U.S. regime change invasion of Iraq. But he is saying that Islamic militants are recruiting hundreds of jihadis to carry out terrorist attacks as soon as the war balloon goes up.

(…)

Bruguiere has searched high and low and found no evidence of the Iraq/al-Qaeda link that recently moved from conventional wisdom in the White House to a stated fact in President Bush’s State of the Union address.

War on Iraq without approval from the U.N. Security Council, Bruguiere says, will exacerbate anti-American sentiments throughout the world and act as a force-multiplier for transnational terrorists.

Which means, simply, that US law enforcement was really impressed with Bruguière and his aggressive methods. The article from the Washington Post last November is a portrait of Bruguiere and explains the French anti-terrorist framework. The article is moslty descriptive, but you can understand the French policy as follows (all quotes from the WaPo article):

– extremely strong anti-terrorist legislation, with special rights for the police/investigative forces

France has embraced a law enforcement strategy that relies heavily on preemptive arrests, ethnic profiling and an efficient domestic intelligence-gathering network. French anti-terrorism prosecutors and investigators are among the most powerful in Europe, backed by laws that allow them to interrogate suspects for days without interference from defense attorneys.

(…)

At times, French authorities have pursued terrorism cases outside their borders, taking over investigations from countries unwilling or unable to arrest suspects on their own.

The French anti-terrorism judge (…) is Bruguiere, an investigating magistrate who under French law is granted great prosecutorial powers, including the ability to sign search warrants, order wiretaps and interrogate suspects. Over the past decade, Bruguiere has ordered the arrests of more than 500 people on suspicion of “conspiracy in relation to terrorism,” a broad charge that gives him leeway to lock up suspects while he carries out investigations.

“There is no equivalent anywhere else in Europe. This provision is very, very efficient for judicial rule in tackling terrorist support networks,” Bruguiere said in an interview. “Fighting terrorism is like the weather. You have high pressure zones and low pressure zones. Countries that have low pressure zones” attract terrorism.

– police rights are extensive, but they are not limitless – ultimately, all work conducted by the investigative judges will come in front of a court of law, and it has to follow criminal procedure;

– police work has nothing to do with military action, and these are considered useless;

Terrorism is “a very new and unprecedented belligerence, a new form of war and we should be flexible in how we fight it,” said Jean-Louis Bruguiere, a senior French anti-terrorism judge. “When you have your enemy in your own territory, whether in Europe or in North America, you can’t use military forces because it would be inappropriate and contrary to the law. So you have to use new forces, new weapons.”

– intelligence gathering is a key feature of the fight against terorrists (see this article about the general lack of knowledge of al-Qiada by Western law enforcement agencies)

The Directorate of Surveillance of the Territory, the domestic intelligence agency, employs a large number of Arabic speakers and Muslims to infiltrate radical groups, according to anti-terrorism experts here. Police are also quick to use the threat of preemptive arrest to persuade suspects to work as street informants.

The French government has also stepped up efforts to crack down on radical Islamic clerics. While authorities have long had the right to expel foreigners if they are judged a threat to public safety, lawmakers passed a bill this year that makes it possible to deport noncitizens for inciting “discrimination, hatred or violence” against any group.

(…)

Bruno Le Maire, a senior adviser to the interior minister, said authorities have placed about 40 mosques under close surveillance and move quickly whenever they find a cleric preaching radicalism.

(…)

Other countries, including the United States, have long-standing policies that restrict law enforcement agents from infiltrating places of worship. So far, however, France’s aggressive approach has not led to widespread criticism.

Dalil Boubakeur, rector of the Grand Mosque of Paris, said many Muslims support the expulsions and are just as concerned about preventing terrorist attacks as other French citizens. “We find the public arrogance of these extremists completely intolerable,” he said. “Fundamentalism is on the rise. . . . This is a real danger. The state should take measures against these types of people that disrupt society, not only when there is a terrorist attack, but before.”

– police work and diplomacy are two things that can – and should – be completely separated:

Thomas M. Sanderson, a terrorism expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, said France has combined its tough law enforcement strategy with a softer diplomatic campaign in the Middle East designed to bolster ties with Islamic countries.

“You do see France making an effort to cast itself as the friendly Western power,” as distinct from the United States, he said. “When it comes to counterterrorism operations, France is hard-core. . . . But they are also very cognizant of what public diplomacy is all about.”

(Of course, this is not to say that France has never been hypocritical in its diplomacy or dealings with States sponsoring terrorism, or that deals have not been made, but there is a general separation of police work and political relations).

The interesting thing to note is that while France’s diplomacy is strongly (and, as most of you around here probably agree, rightly) critical of US policies, its ruthlessly efficient police and intelligence operations against the Islamic “nebula” make it a valuable partner, and law enforcement officials on both sides seem to have made a better job of cooperating than governments. Maybe law enforcement people are more reality-based, maybe they were forced to acknowledge the very real input from their French colleagues because they did not have much else to work on, who knows – but the cooperation works (Same thing, by the way, between the military in Afghanistan, for instance).

Still, the lessons are stark

– the fight against terrorism is not a “war”, other than in the sense that it requires a lot of resources, a lot of time, and there are casualties. Blunt military force is useless and worse, breeds resentment and destruction, which nurture terrorism

– it is possible to fight terrorism while maintaining the rule of law. Exactly where the line is set between defense of civil rights and rights of the prosecution/the investigators can and should be debated. Not every country would want to be as aggressive as the French, but they all should make sure that courts acting under publicly known laws are the ultimate arbiters (as in France). There is no need to compromise our most sacred values to be successful in that fight

– human intelligence is vital. Language skills, undercover agents with ultimate loyalty to their country and not to their religion are essential. This requires either a lot of training, or the availability of a pool of bilingual and motivated citizens. Treating Muslims are suspects is definitely not the best way to get there. It is strange that the USA, a country of immigrants (like France) should have so much trouble filling up such positions

– explicit support from the population, and especially from the groups most threatened by these policies (i.e. Muslims) is required. Community leaders, religious leaders should be engaged, encouraged to speak up, and associated, in public and private ways, with anti-terrorist policies. Muslims know that they are often the first victims of terrorism, if indirectly – shunning, suspicion, discrimination, etc… and can be brought around if they can expect not to be blamed as a group.

– public diplomacy does not need to follow police work. The two can – and should – be kept separate; but public diplomacy must be accompanied by private diplomacy that follows more closely with the police work and focuses on intelligence gathering and surveillance of identified dangerous groups. However, such private diplomacy is hard if the public diplomacy consists in insulting or threatening your partners.

Without any specialist knowledge on my part, it looks like the USA is not doing good at all on the first 4 items, and also arguably not on the last one either, which is not encouraging… and meanwhile, they have to rely on their newest enemy, France (and other similary “unreliable” allies), to make any progress.

I would add that any long term anti-terrorism policy should take a long, hard look at our fucked up approach to the Arab world. This will come in another installment soon…

Comments

Jérôme
ultimately, all work conducted by the investigative judges will come in front of a court of law, and it has to follow criminal procedure
The problem in the u.s. is lack of judicial oversight for federal investigations granted by the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) court. Sounds like France has been more careful in this regard.
thanks for the info.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 30 2005 22:51 utc | 1

Most of the large European countries have extensive experience in fighting terrorism, though most of the suffered most from domestic types, red (communist/anarchist) or black (fascist) or both.
Germany, Italy, Spain and Great Britain have had prolonged fights with terrorism in the 60s, 70s and later.
The USA should listen and learn instead of raving around like another blinded Polyphemus.

Posted by: Rene | Jan 30 2005 23:09 utc | 2

I never know what to do with these long wonderful posts … any comment seems awfully facile. But I won’t let that stop me.
I’m flying into Paris this week, and was deciding on a book to take with me in case Ryanair decide that they can’t afford fuel or something and we’re stuck for a while. Let me see: “Assasins: a radical cult in Islam”? Maybe not; “A history of the Jewish People”? Let’s leave that one behind too; Turkish history books? Naaaaah; “A Short History of Chinese Thought? I’m on holidays here!; “A Mathematician Plays the Markets”? That should be uncontroversial enough.
I’m paranoid that other people will be paranoid enough to be worried by the books I drag out of my bag. This isn’t good.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 30 2005 23:20 utc | 3

you are right to say that france has solved its terrorism problems in the way these things should be done, and the US to the contrary is bumbling and messing up, BUT, and this is a very big BUT, to compare the situations in both countries is like comparing apples to oranges. lets see.
the situation of the muslims in france is, in my understanding, more or less the situation of any big colony of immigrants here in europe: lots of poor people, few troublemakers- they have assumed the role of the proletariat in short. beyond stupid blurts in public of dummies like le pen, the french political establishment
probably understands well that the best way of dealing with these people is to integrate them into the mainstream to the extent possible – all in all a rational approach to a situation which could blow up the social contract of the country if mismanaged. most european countries handle the immigration issue along these lines.
another factor to consider is the role of france as a colonial master. as somebody who enjoys french wine i’d venture to say that the conclusion the french establishment drew from the algiers adventure was that antagonising the muslims would eventually be far mor costly than getting along with them. thus a big and mostly pacific colony of muslims in france, and france OTOH playing its colonial adventures in africa and elsewhere very discreetly and avoiding pissing off people gratuitiously.
the response of france to the bombings 10 years ago was controversial to say the least, while still within the boundaries of a democracy respectful of its laws and traditions, but more than anything, a country which has a very big respect for itself, its culture, its institutions and probably its image abroad. and because i cant resist the temptation to compare, we had some incidents of terrorism here in austria during the last 20 years, but as compared with france they were handled without special laws, without shutting down the borders, without public scares. the people who did these things are in jail. the muslim community here is part of the landscape, the integration issues are not of religious nature but due to racism and economic segregation, yet still there are no troublemakers i could mention.
now lets look at the situation of the US and their ‘GWOT’ and why comparing them to france is apples vs. oranges. the 9/11 attentate, which started everything in earnest, was IMO nothing but the cassus belli contrived by the american political establishment so they could start a colonial war against countries with oil, osama is the equivalent to emmanuel goldstein, and the US has always had a dubious image in arab/muslim countries for more than enough reasons (not that they have a good image in many places outside the muslim world).
another aspect to consider is the role of the govt inside the US. the US govt has, as seen by me, merely the roles of collecting taxes and making war in the best metternich tradition. this means that the US govt has never cared to ingratiate themselves with their own population which is pretty much seen as politically irrelevant. muslims immigrants in the US are probably in no small degree people who have worked with the CIA in their countries and who would be killed on sight if they returned, the rest are in a proletarian role similar to here in europe, but where the native population is politically irrelevant they are even more so. this is exacerbated by the demonization of muslims in general by not only the US in order to make wars against muslim countries more appealing to their population, but by israeli operatives in order to deny them any possible support needed to solve the israel-palestine problem. muslims are characterized as brutes, corrupt, grasping, compulsive wife beaters and terrorists by default. if you read the DHS reports posted at cryptome.org you’ll see what i mean. the preoccupation of the US security establishment with muslims could be seen as an abnormal fixation. in such a climate it would be rather strange for muslims to go work for the US govt.
another difference between the US and france is that they do not and never had a problem of muslim terorism. 9/11 was an inside job, the previous attentate on the towers was an FBI operation. if we consider osama as a plant then the US is really not left with much to fight against, because then the attentates on the embassies in africa and the USS cole would have to be seen in another light.
but the most important difference between the US and france is that france is a law abiding democracy and the US is not. and, where france probably has some genuine friends among muslims and in muslim countries, the US at best has ‘allies’ of the caliber of chalabi, allawi and saddam.

Posted by: name | Jan 31 2005 0:39 utc | 4

Well, Buscho started off by throwing out the anti-terrorism baby with the Clinton bathwater in its rush to invade Iraq. And it is clear why we have invaded Iraq; to stake out ME oil as oil supplies diminish and its demand increases. The War on Terrorisim, is not about terrorims at all except as an excuse for emperialistic designs. In fact, it would be against Neocon/Bushco interest to effectively fight terrorism because it would eliminate their cover for their true and much ess politically acceptable aims. One of the scary things is that I don’t think W is conscious of any of this; he simply listens to what other people tell him and if “his gut” tell him that it is the right course then he goes for it.

Posted by: stoy | Jan 31 2005 1:17 utc | 5

Credit to name, we agree on US motives. I didn’t refresh my browser after a good period away from the computer.

Posted by: stoy | Jan 31 2005 1:24 utc | 6

Yes, the problem with the way the right wing in America has approached terrorism seems to have as much to do with their economic interests and ideological extremes as it does with terrorism…and that is why they cannot unite people in the U.S.
name- I don’t know if 9-11 was MIHOP or LIHOP or neither, but unfortunately…I can imagine a small cult (as Hersh calls them) could have conspired in such a way. their actions after the attack and their manifesto before the attack lend credence to various scenarios.
Jerome- you forgot to mention that France can fight terrorism and still maintain a social contract based on basic human rights for its citizens (health care, poverty issues, workers’ rights).
I don’t understand why such a rich nation as the U.S. cannot manage itself…maybe the problem is that we have such piss poor management in the U.S. at this time…who have an agenda to privatize/profit from the air you breath if they can.
The key issue for the U.S. is that the right wing (as Strauss noted) needs war to win elections. As long as Americans are willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters for right winger’s political ambitions, then we’ll have war.
I predict Bush will pull out of Iraq asap…as many forces as possible…with elections as the face-saving moment…let the troops rest up, and then start the push to go into Iran in earnest.
The Bush administration has shown an unwillingness to support the European negotiations to disarm Iran, to their shame.
But then again, as others have noted, attacking Iran would provide Sharon a good cover not to have to deal with those in his country (and military) who do not want to get out of the settlements.
…and of course, the talibornagains in America want Israel to go up in flames (esp. the temple mount) so that they can fulfill their sicko koolaid vision of the end of the world as we know it…
…and I don’t feel fine.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 31 2005 1:46 utc | 7

Maybe the American Dream mythos is our problem; when American Dream came to equal becoming rich by individual effort. That pretty much endorses a fuck everyone mentality.

Posted by: stoy | Jan 31 2005 1:56 utc | 8

Stoy,
I always think our American dream problem has something to do with what was perceived as our virtually endless frontier. If you fuck something up, you just move on. People, rivers, Native Americans … whatever … there is a limitless supply, which tends to make Americans think in disposable terms of just about everything.

Posted by: SusanG | Jan 31 2005 2:58 utc | 9

Another excellent post, Jerome.
Most of the discussion of terrorism, and how to fight it, divorces those violent acts from the policies the terrorists oppose. We are not fighting random violence by deranged madmen; their violence targets populations whose governments pursue policies the “terrorists” believe to be harmful to the populations from which the terrorists come; it is simply bringing the fight to the populations of those govts. As you pointed out, French civilians were killed because France supported Iraq in the Iraq/Iran war. (The US “supported” both sides and was not hit.) These acts were not random but were responses to specific govt. policies.
If terrorism was more frequently linked to the policies that spawned it in discussions about it, a more informed citizenry might be able to do a cost/benefit analysis to decide whether the price was worth the potential gain (e.g., in Iraq, US kids and tax dollars vs. oil, corporate profits and Israel’s security). I don’t know whether it would make a difference in the US, but it certainly did in Spain. For all the discussion about fighting terrorism, often the best and simplest way is to change the policies that produced it in the first place.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Jan 31 2005 17:10 utc | 10

Counting deaths caused by ‘terrorism’ is perilous, as no clear definition of ‘terrorist’, much less ‘death caused by terrorism’ exists. US analysts have consistently used a restricted definition and put forward very low numbers, even when they quarrel about them, with the ones trying to show terrorism is a dire threat, the others that the war on Terra is working:
For world, 2003 – only 35 Americans died:
“New figures released yesterday by the Bush administration show dramatically higher terrorism casualties last year than the State Department documented in an April report that U.S. officials heralded as evidence of great progress in the battle against terrorism.
The statistics show that 625 people died in terrorist attacks last year, not 307 as first reported.”
WaPo
I tried to think of some rare events that caused a similar number of deaths, world-wide. Choking on ballpoints? Being murdered by an intravenous injection of nutmeg? Attacked by a crow? The infamous champagne cork? Having pins stuck into an effigy of the person? What?
No luck. Stats not available, deaths not counted…
ctd..

Posted by: Blackie | Jan 31 2005 18:53 utc | 11

Jerome, it is interesting that you limit your post to “Islamic terrorism”. Besides that, all EU countries implement the kinds of actions that France does (excepting GB vs. IRA.) Yes, the point about the separation between public diplomacy and police work is essential.
That the US did not take that road is not due to ignorance or stupidity. They do not need advice or models.
See, for example:
The re-trial of Mounir al-Motassadeq, in Hamburg, going on right now (on appeal, after Mzoudi was released in Feb. 2004, partly due to the reluctance, nay refusal, on the part of the US to provide evidence from interrogations of KSM and Binalshib), verdict expected in March. Motassadeq is the only person ever (!) convicted for complicity in 9/11 – in Germany, not surprising – police investigations, the courts, just grind on, continue to labor within the rules, procedures and proven methods laid down long ago. The case has not been reported at all in the mainstream (or any, as far as I can see) US or Brit press. Brief descriptions:
BruneiT
Expatica
Why no interest? Nothing to see here, move along? Quite. The US has obstructed regular investigations of 9/11, and has not collaborated (except hypocritically on the surface) with any EU country. At the same time, the threat of terrorism has been hyped up to a pitch so hysterical one wonders…Pressure to arbirtrarily imprison ‘terrorists’ has been tremendous. Ask Chirac (who resisted) or Blair (who gave in.)
The US difficulties with France are in part due to France’s relative success with dealing with terrorism. (There are also other complications.)

Posted by: Blackie | Jan 31 2005 19:03 utc | 12

The very label [conspiracy] serves as an automatic dismissal, as though no one ever acts in secret. Let us bring some perspective and common sense to this issue.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 31 2005 19:31 utc | 13

U.S. Judge: Guantanamo Tribunals Unconstitutional

In a setback for the Bush administration, U.S. District Judge Joyce Hens Green also ruled the prisoners at the U.S. military base at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba have constitutional protections under the law.
“The court concludes that the petitioners have stated valid claims under the Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution and that the procedures implemented by the government to confirm that the petitioners are ‘enemy combatants’ subject to indefinite detention violate the petitioners’ rights to due process of law,” Green wrote.

Green’s 75-page opinion was the unclassified version made available for public release. It stemmed from 11 cases involving Guantanamo prisoners.
Her ruling probably will not be the final word on the issue. A different federal judge in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 19 dismissed the cases of seven Guantanamo prisoners on the grounds that they have no recognizable constitutional rights and are subject to the military review process.
The cases could be appealed to the U.S. appeals court, and then ultimately to the U.S. Supreme Court.

If Bush can stuff the higher courts before the cases come up they are probably lost, but there is still some hope that Justicia will clean up some of the mess.

Posted by: b | Jan 31 2005 19:34 utc | 14

Blackie – of course you’re right. I just did not know enough about the other countries’ stories to write about. I am sure that Germany, UK, and probably alos Spain and italy have many lessons to pass on.
I was surprise by te extent of fawning for Bruguière – the “tough cow-boy”. If you’ve ever read Newsmax, which is literally wingnutty, the quote I put forward is all the more extraordinary…

Posted by: Jérôme | Jan 31 2005 20:11 utc | 15

b
that justice is a farce beyond expression worthy of the worst sirkian melodramas with unfortunate & very concrete results
in any fundamental sense – justice has not existed since thurgood marshall or frankfurter

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 31 2005 20:37 utc | 16

Uncle $cam
There is just way too much stuff there. I need little bits that I can digest and then get hungry for more. It would take forever to separate the wheat from the chaff and I know there is chaff there and I suspect there is more wheat than we really want. What if all that stuff turned out to be true? What would we do then?

Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 31 2005 21:32 utc | 17

“when the violence of the bourgeoise is called justice, the justice of the proletariat will be called violence”
is it:
a) a song by the four tops
b) a poem by robert frost
c) a small poem by baudelaire
d) a slogan of the red brigades
e) an yves montand movie
f) the truth
g) all of the above
the winner will spend a weekend at the baghdad hilton with periodic visits to the green zone to see where the mortars hit & to watch planes fall from the sky
allawi make thieu look like the vietnamese don knotts – when looking at allawi – i think i see the ‘turk’ solozzo from the godfather & it doesn’t take niels bohr to guess who the tataligia or barzini might be

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 31 2005 22:00 utc | 18

classic rgiap
I’m gonna get that post framed.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 31 2005 22:26 utc | 19

I quess f, M. Giap:
If I win, I’m bringing Tinkerbell–she’s carryon.
But I don’t think we own that hotel, anymore.

Posted by: Paris Hilton | Jan 31 2005 22:28 utc | 20

Scam, I’m fine with “inside job” theories and surely won’t dismiss anything that makes Bushco look bad, but when you see that the one writing the article is a complete nutcase speaking of alien abductions and how *she* managed to get secret knowledge of ancient civilizations and amazing powers, I have to stop reading. If *I* had secret knowledge and amazing powers, I surely wouldn’t waste my time making some internet site; I’d just use it at full capacity to influence this friggin planet, even and including aiming at higher power – open as some political leader, or secret.
RGiap: Though it’s in English, I’d go with d, translated.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 31 2005 22:40 utc | 21

Bernhard, Teuton, and other German MoAers- is the inclusion of Gonzalez in the war crimes lawsuit getting any play in the German press?
Did you see the diary at dKos on this subject? Curious to know how it’s being covered where you are, since it seems Rummy is trying to get the suit dismissed by refusing to play in your backyard if you don’t say it’s okay for the Bush Administration to torture people.
The Americans filing that suit are my heroes. They said they’re filing there and not here because it would not get a hearing in the U.S. because of all of those who are conspiring to commit war crimes and their enablers.
Also wonder what sort of coverage it’s getting in other European nations.
I have to tape scola so I can catch the Euro news casts. btw, what’s the opinion of France 2 as a newscast in France?

Posted by: fauxreal | Feb 1 2005 0:55 utc | 22

Terrorists’ best weapon against the US — its own stupid self
meanwhile The Stat Wonks have Spoken and they conclude that US election returns vs exit poll data offer “statistical indications that a systematic, nationwide shift of 5.5% of the vote may have occurred” but despair of actually proving anything without “the data we need for mathematical analysis and open, robust scientific debate.”
since open, robust scientific debate is no longer popular or even possible in the US, nay, the US even attempts to sabotage same abroad, the odds on any academically reputable investigation of the possible electoral fraud seem far from good.
meanwhile media veteran Bill Moyers is in despair, or near to it and I’m reading Jared Diamond’s latest [highly recommended and I will have more to say later about the absurd NYT review]… all of which confirms my point above, that the US has become itself the best and most terrible weapon against its own imperial might.
in other words nothing the French can do will save the US from its own internal terrorists — the NR flaks with their ugly threats and hate speech, their barely-concealed coloured-shirt-ism — the high school kids so ignorant of their own Constitution that they think their country has “too free” a press — the “leaders” so dazzled with their own prowess at looting and their religious delusions that they’re happily running their country into bankruptcy (natural and fiscal) plus several decades of serious backwardness compared to more enlightened parts of the world…

Posted by: DeAnander | Feb 1 2005 2:22 utc | 23

… and yes, I guess I am kinda hankering for a new open thread…

Posted by: DeAnander | Feb 1 2005 3:34 utc | 24

fauxreal – france 2 is the most popular public TV channel in France (there are 6 main channels in France if you don’t have cable, 3 public – France 2, France 3 and France 5, and 3 private – TF1, Canal+ and M6).
France 2 is better than TF1, the main, private channel, but it tries hard to imitate it (reality TV, trash, etc). Politically, it is usually slightly more to the left than TF1, but never very critical of government.
They have a few good investigative shows once in a while.

Posted by: Jérôme | Feb 1 2005 13:50 utc | 25