Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
January 17, 2005
“The Coming Wars”

As pre-reported in Haaretz and elsewhere, "The Coming Wars" by Seymour Hersh is now published in The New Yorker.

Hersh describes how Bush has consolidated the control over the military and intelligence services and bought off Pakistan and how he will use this to initiate air and commando attacks on Iran and for military operations in other countries.

The administration had its "moment of accountability", as Bush characterizes his reelection in a recent Washington Post interview. The voters have justified the continuation of the neocon’s plans and methods.

"This is the last hurrah – we’ve got four years, and want to come out of this saying we won the war on terrorism.", a former high-level intelligence official tells Hersh.

Hersh continues:

The President has signed a series of findings and executive orders authorizing secret commando groups and other Special Forces units to conduct covert operations against suspected terrorist targets in as many as ten nations in the Middle East and South Asia.


"The civilians in the Pentagon want to go into Iran and destroy as much of the military infrastructure as possible," the government consultant with close ties to the Pentagon told me.

The American task force, aided by the information from Pakistan, has been penetrating eastern Iran from Afghanistan in a hunt for underground installations.

There has also been close, and largely unacknowledged, cooperation with Israel. The government consultant with ties to the Pentagon said that the Defense Department civilians, under the leadership of Douglas Feith, have been working with Israeli planners and consultants to develop and refine potential nuclear, chemical-weapons, and missile targets inside Iran.

"We’re not dealing with a set of National Security Council option papers here," the former high-level intelligence official told me. "They’ve already passed that wicket. It’s not if we’re going to do anything against Iran. They’re doing it."

Two former C.I.A. clandestine officers .. reported last month on the existence of a broad counter-terrorism Presidential finding that permitted the Pentagon "to operate unilaterally in a number of countries where there is a perception of a clear and evident terrorist threat." …

The two former officers listed some of the countries – Algeria, Sudan, Yemen, Syria, and Malaysia. (I was subsequently told by the former high-level intelligence official that Tunisia is also on the list.)

In some cases, according to the Pentagon advisers, local citizens could be recruited and asked to join up with guerrillas or terrorists. This could potentially involve organizing and carrying out combat operations, or even terrorist activities.

Hersh also describes how all the preparations are done outside of congressional oversight.

We know that Hersh and The New Yorker do rigid fact checking before reporting and his writing is a confirmation of other reports like on drones being seen and – in one case – shoot down over Iranian complexes.

What is missing so far is a preparation of the public mind in form of an "incident". But then – is there really a need for this?

Shortly after the Bush recoronation and the Iraqi elections ("there is no middle road"-Allawi is the allowed choice), military action against Syria is imminent. The attack on Iran will follow in March or April and further actions from either side involving Saudi oil installations in the late summer.

Sharon has already started his part of the Middle East war by ordering harsher operations against Palestine "without restrictions, I repeat, without restrictions" meaning indiscriminate artillery attacks on refugee camps in Gaza.

Many innocent people will die in this coming slaughter and oil will cost well over US$ 100 per barrel by the end of this year.

Comments

Bernard,
just poking around catching up on end of the day comments from yesterday and refreshed to Main to find this new post. thought i’d take a minute to thank you and Jerome for keeping this community together.

Posted by: esme | Jan 17 2005 9:20 utc | 1

heaven help us

Posted by: annie | Jan 17 2005 9:21 utc | 2

Let’s face it, folks, the US imperium is over now. Targetting Tunisia and Algeria? Are they idiots? As if their governments were conspiring against the US.
I think they aren’t preparing the US people to a new war because they just hope to make enough provocations for Iran to retaliate in a way or another, so that they could claim to be attacked by these Evil mullahs, and like after Pearl Harbor everyone will rally behind Bush.
They don’t realise if Iranians are smart, they can cripple badly the army with a first strike, and whatever happens the rest of the world will just abandon the US as soon as it hit on another country. Or, they just don’t care about the latter.
BTW, what makes you think they’ll hit Syria even before Iran, say in February-March? Or do you mean the Israelis would do it?

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 17 2005 9:23 utc | 3

@Clueless Joe
DEBKAfile, the Israeli disinformation outlet know for half-thruth writing (read with care), recently published about Syria and the last paragraphs sound very plausible to me. It´s just a part of the show to rattle all cages and to saw confusion and overload among the local leaders in the Middle East.

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2005 9:45 utc | 4

an incident… nah, as prenit reminded the world when explaining his accountability moment
… Bush said. “It’s important for people to know that I’m the president of everybody.”
but they’ll find/create an incident just as sure as saddam himself flew those planes into the towers.

Posted by: esme | Jan 17 2005 9:45 utc | 5

If they should really follow this plan – Pat’s and others’ evaluation of current US army capabilities seem to speak strongly against it – the price of oil may become one of our minor (or even last?) worries. But even too loud a beating of the propaganda-drums could have a disastrous effect.
I’ve said it before, but it bears repetition: A few years ago I was sure that nukes would, in all probability, never be used on people again. Now, I am almost sure I will witness the use of nukes during my lifetime. This, to me, is one of the ultimate horrors.

Posted by: teuton | Jan 17 2005 9:59 utc | 6

Well, they still have an Air Force in good shape – and they probably have had time to replenish their supplies of smart bombs – there are not enough targets in Iraq, despite their best efforts to find more (too lazy to put a link to one of the regular reports of civilians “mistakenly” targetted by war planes)…
I don’t see how an Iran (or Syria, for that matter) campaign can take place other than by air. I agree with B’s implicit suggestion that Iran’s reaction will be to cut off the Strait of Hormuz to tanker traffic and create a real oil crisis – whose main victims, remember, will be the Asians who are the main buyers of Arab oil, and who in turn will be sorely tempted to use the T-Bond weapon…
I agree that then, nuclear strikes become a lot more plausible. Scary.

Posted by: Jérôme | Jan 17 2005 10:41 utc | 7

What a huge gamble.
Bush is losing big time in Iraq. If he pulls out, Israel lose big time, so he has to up the stakes.
WW3 – Gentlemen start your engines

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 17 2005 11:43 utc | 8

My opinion is that this leak to Hersh is just a psyop against Iran. And it is not something new. The Americans are escalating their threats and the Iranians are supposed to get scared. Do you think that this plan is working?

Posted by: Greco | Jan 17 2005 13:24 utc | 9

Since it si MLK day, an excerpt from his 1967 anti-Viet Nam War speech at Riverside Church in NYC. (I commend the speech in its entirety to all.)
“We still have a choice today: nonviolent coexistence or violent coannihilation. We must move past indecision to action. We must find new ways to speak for peace in Vietnam and justice throughout the developing world, a world that borders on our doors. If we do not act, we shall surely be dragged down the long, dark, and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight.
Now let us begin. Now let us rededicate ourselves to the long and bitter, but beautiful, struggle for a new world. This is the calling of the sons of God, and our brothers wait eagerly for our response. Shall we say the odds are too great? Shall we tell them the struggle is too hard? Will our message be that the forces of American life militate against their arrival as full men, and we send our deepest regrets? Or will there be another message — of longing, of hope, of solidarity with their yearnings, of commitment to their cause, whatever the cost? The choice is ours, and though we might prefer it otherwise, we must choose in this crucial moment of human history.”

Posted by: maxcrat | Jan 17 2005 13:27 utc | 10

@Greco
I don´t think Hersh is used for psyops by the administration here. The leaks he cites are from people likely disgruntled by the administration.
Scaring the Iranians will not work anyhow. Any hint of an attack and an attack itself will only help to rally the people around the Mullahs. The folks there do see what happens in Iraq and certainly do not wish to become the next to receive “democratization” made in the US.

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2005 14:50 utc | 11

Bush wants the French and Germans to sign up in Iraq. Isn’t that the point of his February voyagings? If, after threatening Iran, he offers to let France And Germany help “work it out,” perhaps they’ll offer to help with Iraq as well.

Posted by: alabama | Jan 17 2005 16:14 utc | 12

alabama, since you mention Bush’s coming to Old Europe in February: I am truly curious about the welcome he will get from large parts of the public. My guess is that we(!) will see massive demonstrations. If any coverage of those should make it into the US media, look out for the guy waving at you – that will be me.

Posted by: teuton | Jan 17 2005 16:20 utc | 13

@alabama
No way Schroeder will sign up for Iraq. That would be political suicide.
On the Bush visit I may join teuton if time allows. For people in Germany BushAlarm2 is the coordinating website.

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2005 17:07 utc | 14

Bernard,
know of a similar site for the frenchies since we can’t join the party on the 20th.

Posted by: esme | Jan 17 2005 17:09 utc | 15

A fine bit of orientalism from Master Friedman:

It is not an exaggeration to say that, if you throw in the Oslo peace process, U.S. foreign policy for the last 15 years has been dominated by an effort to save Muslims – not from tsunamis, but from tyrannies, mostly their own theocratic or autocratic regimes.

Friends like these…

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 17 2005 17:12 utc | 16

Maybe Friedman is just a high-budget bigot. I don’t know.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 17 2005 17:20 utc | 17

Slightly OT, but I can’t resist
playing my usual role in pointing out the following
two contributions from righteous rightists at antiwar.com
The dependably polemical

Justin Raimondo

and

John Dean
a blast from the
Watergate past. What I still fail to understand is how Bush won re-election when so many of the “reasonable right” were thinking thoughts like these. As has been said (often) before, it’s hard to decide which is worse, a stolen election or a true majority in favor of Bushian policy, to wit,
a government of thieves, torturers, and traitors.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jan 17 2005 17:32 utc | 18

David Hackworth’s view of the current state of US armed forces
Now, I go back to my secure location.

Posted by: Heinz G. | Jan 17 2005 17:33 utc | 19

Hannah: Even if Bush stole the election, it’s scary because it still means he has 48% people voting for him, instead of 51%. There’s no way they stole more than a few mio votes, if there was such a theft. They definitely didn’t add 15-20 mio ballots, which they should have done with a decent honest intelligent people voting. Not that this idiocy is limited to the Americans of course, the Aussies voted Howard too, for instance.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 17 2005 17:36 utc | 20

@ Clueless
Agreed. You took the words right out of my buffer.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Jan 17 2005 17:42 utc | 21

Hackworth:
“Today, the regular Army has about 100,000 nondeployables out of a 500,000-man regular force. The Reserves and Guard dud ratios are even higher. Any civilian corporation that allowed too many slackers, deadwood and deadbeats would belly-up. Since pregnancy, disability and too many single spouses with kids who cannot deploy are a large part of this problem, the Army needs to understand once and for all that we’re at war and can no longer afford the luxury of social experiments.”
This is a serious, chronic issue – and not just in the Army, but among civilian (to include contract) hires as well. A lot of money is wasted on DoD civilians who are essentially non-deployable though they occupy positions that require periodic deployment. This increases the burden on uniformed personnel, while weakening the ability to fully man overseas operations. I expect this to change ever so slowly.
The Army will be (already is) gradually shifting from deployments to Permanent Changes of Station in Iraq, but the deployable/non-deployable problem will not go away in the forseeable future.

Posted by: Pat | Jan 17 2005 18:32 utc | 22

This seems appropriate to this thread, at least to me.
From the Hopi Elders 2005
The birth canal is now wide open. Do not be afraid of the dark. You may lose your breath at this time. You may recoil at what you think is up ahead and turn away. Catch yourself and turn into love.
Remember, it is your own darkness you see and phenomena is not as you imagine it to be. Release yourself from your role in those moments. See what it is to rest within the rhythm of the ancient drums felt in the human heart. Cradle a newborn baby and remember. Lead the peace.
Fellow tribes, you were warned to keep your head above water. The water came and will come again. Mother has shook and will soon shake again. She maintains her natural state of balance in ways many choose to not understand. Much more dancing of her is yet to come. Listen to her heartbeat. Watch closely her animals. Hear her stones tumbling in her streams, and keep your shoes handy. Know how to make fire. Know where to find water. Know that if she comes for you, she has always been your guiding companion and receive her wings.
Is your garden in order? What is buried in the soil of your soul? Have you released your fear? Be aware at all times what is rooted, or attempting to root now in your garden. Let your mind tend to your own soil at this time. Within your own garden is the place for good medicine to grow. Keep to truth and there will develop no new fears in your drumming.
The idea of your life as a struggle must be released from your thinking vocabulary. There is no need to be afraid of life’s dance. A stampede of White Buffalo are a beautiful part of life’s tapestry. Likewise give your life for what you believe in. As you were asked before, you are reminded again to take nothing personally during this time, for the moment you do, your spiritual growth and journey come to a halt.
The Elders request you to keep aligned to the Path of Peace for the duration of this world cycle and continued state of unrest for our Mother Earth. They ask that we live our lives as a prayer, and resist praying for certain situations or outcomes. They assure us that we are safely in the heart of the Great Spirit and will not be destroyed.
The Elders say it is again time to align with honoring ALL life. This is the meaning of Mother’s call to attention. If the sea comes for you look for your guide and take hands. Keep your shoes handy. Know how to make fire. With over 50% of the world’s water contaminated now, know where to find water or how to purify it.
Live each day in celebration. The smallest things are to be cherished. Feed and clothe your life. You are home. Home is not a place, but a state of being. “You” are home.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 17 2005 19:43 utc | 23

thanks for that fauxreal…

Posted by: b real | Jan 17 2005 19:57 utc | 24

@slothrop, I think your assessment of Friedman is wholly correct and apt: a “high-budget bigot” is exactly what he is, a smooth and fluent believer in the White Man’s Burden and the Imperial Necessity. there are more loathesome intellectual animals out there, but Friedman excels in a kind of soapy hypocrisy that bothers me even more than the naked hatemongering of the Coulters and Limbaughs (low-rent bigots, trailer-trash of the punditocracy). it may just be a personal allergy, but I can barely stand to read his stuff any more. watching Krugman struggle with the contradictions of his own ideology is less painful, as it at least seems like an honest struggle 🙂
btw, anyone else read Bell’s Cultural Contradictions of Capitalism? opinions? it’s been a few years, but I was thinking it might be time to dust it off and re-read.

Posted by: DeAnander | Jan 17 2005 20:21 utc | 25

Deanander
Only read End of Ideology I think it’s called.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 17 2005 20:29 utc | 26

De: Friedman excels in a kind of soapy hypocrisy that bothers me even more than the naked hatemongering of the Coulters and Limbaughs (low-rent bigots, trailer-trash of the punditocracy)
Damn, De. What body part do you pull this from? Mighty fine. But don’t let it go to your head. You know what Joni Mitchell sings?
“They toss around your latest golden egg.
Speculation-well, who’s to know
If the next one in the nest
Will glitter for them so
I guess I seem ungrateful
With my teeth sunk in the hand
That brings me things I really can’t give up just yet
Now I sit up here The critic!
And they introduce some band
But they seem so much confetti
Looking at them on my TV set
Oh the power and the glory
Just when you’re getting a taste for worship
They start bringing out the hammers
And the boards and the nails

I heard it in the wind last night
It sounded like applause
Chilly now
End of summer
No more shiny hot nights
It was just the arbutus rustling
And the bumping of the logs
And the moon swept down black water
Like an empty spotlight.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 17 2005 20:44 utc | 27

What is the Latin phrase used during the procession for the laurel-crownded hero? The aid whispering in the ear: “Remember, you are mortal. Remember you are mortal.” I always think about that when I think of Joni and other poet-musicians and laser-sharp commentators on the human condition.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 17 2005 20:52 utc | 28

US rebuts ‘Iran covert op’ claim
my my , quit to refute

Posted by: annie | Jan 17 2005 21:02 utc | 29

fauxreal, thank you for posting that. the mayan elders have also made an’urgent call’.
tomorrow is a special day on the mayan calendar
***Note, this day on the Traditional Maya Calendar
is 9 Keme. According to
Saq’ Be,’ KEME is: a special day to have contact with
the ancestors; …to
find access to the higher knowledge. On this day,
there is communication
with the higher beings and there is access to
dimensional portals… so that
our instincts may increase; so that we may have
internal strength; so that
we may be liberated from vices; to finish with bad
businesses; to end
suffering; to harmonize negative energies; to cut
hate, grudges and lower
passions… 9 is: A world of female strength, it has 9
levels within and
represents the emotional, intuitive, the artist. Power
of realization and
the creative energies, highest vibration of the female
energy.
“Through the ancient techniques of divination and tools of prophecy,
the Mayan elders are calling forth to humanity at THIS TIME to pay closer
attention to the messages being sent forth by the mother earth and to
immediately take the actions they have been calling for, to unite in
an effort to bring balance again upon our planet. The recent destruction
that manifested in Indonesia is predicted to now occur rapidly upon five
continents of the earth. This message is not meant to induce fear, to
the contrary, it is a call for bravery and for action. The elders are
concerned about what has been presented in their recent divinations and they
call to all humanity to warn their leaders and to work very hard at a
spiritual level to pre vent the impending destruction. This message, verified
and brought forth by various Mayan elders in Guatemala, is for all of
humanity. The hurricanes in the US and the earthquake and tsunami in Indonesia
have been warnings and we must now pay attention or the possibilities of
floods in Europe, Los Angeles, earthquakes and other efforts of the mother
earth to awaken us will manifest quickly.
There is a specific call for people around the world to join in
prayer, meditation or whatever method of spirituality one engages in to unite
on January 18th at the time of their local sunset (approx 6:00PM). This
date is (9) Keme according to the sacred Mayan Cholq’ij calendar(more info
on calendar available at: http://www.sacredroad.org) and has the potential for
protecting humanity from disaster.”

Posted by: annie | Jan 17 2005 21:12 utc | 30

From the horse’s ass’s mouth — the DOD… Hersch struck a nerve: Statement from Pentagon Spokesman Lawrence DiRita on Latest Seymour Hersh Article.
HUA!

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 17 2005 21:17 utc | 31

@Kate
The American regime’s apparent imperial ambitions and its demonstrated support for terrorist organizations is a global challenge that deserves much more serious treatment than Lawrence DiRita provides in the Pentagon statement on the New Yorker article titled “The Coming Wars.”
Mr. DiRita’s statement is so riddled with errors of fundamental fact that the credibility of his entire organisation is destroyed.
Mr. DiRita’s source(s) deny him any rumor, innuendo, and assertions about meetings that happened, programs that do exist, and statements by officials that were made.

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2005 22:03 utc | 32

Reuters:

Asked whether U.S. military forces had been conducting reconnaissance missions in Iran, Defense Department spokesman Lt. Col. Barry Venable said, “We don’t discuss missions, capabilities or activities of Special Operations forces.”

Non denial denial…

Posted by: b | Jan 17 2005 22:13 utc | 33

Revenge on Friedman

Posted by: Jérôme | Jan 17 2005 22:16 utc | 34

Arrangements Mr. Hersh alleges between Under Secretary Douglas Feith and Israel, government or non-government, do not exist.  Here, Mr. Hersh is building on links created by the soft bigotry of some conspiracy theorists.  This reflects poorly on Mr. Hersh and the New Yorker.
This administration has labeled so many people conspiracy theorists that you have wonder why there ARE so many tales of malfeseance floating in the ether between our brains?
Could it be that this administration is so secretive? That they have IN FACT conspired with people like Chalabi and Israeli Generals, as Kwietkowski claimed, to fabricate a rationale for a war?
could it be the voter fraud in Florida in 2000? The manipulation of the public during the mid-term election cycle with “terror threat” color levels?
Could it be that NO ONE has been held accountable for the horrors this administration has perpetrated on the world…but instead, those perpetrators have been rewarded?
it is also helpful to remember that John Kerry, that harbinger of left wing lunacy, was labeled a conspiracy theorist for his investigations of BCCI and its related “imaginary” unconstitutional and murderous conspiracy, Iran/Contra.
fwiw. BCCI just settled a lawsuit and the terms of this suit are not available for public information because they might upset people.
better not let the people know what’s gone on. they might think people should be held accountable.
now, the following actually is nothing but rumor/conspiracy theory, as far as I know:
there were rumors of an impending invasion of Iran back in Novemberish, after Rumsfeld went to the area. (this from that site that was cribbing Billmon.) the rumor also held that Iran had pix of Republicans that would have busted their anti-homosexual rhetoric, or maybe just upset their wives. of course, this site also says that Bush is a raving lunatic, out of touch with reality and a really sadistic son of bitch.
I have two cds on replay constantly these days: David Byrne’s Grown Backwards and Elvis Costello’s The Delivery Man. I recommend them both. New and fitting for our times.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 17 2005 22:17 utc | 35

Oh, if we’re into quoting ancient doom-sayers, then there’s one that is ironically apt for the fundie Bushites, from Apocalypse:
“Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and has become a habitation of demons, and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird! For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her sexual immorality, the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from the abundance of her luxury”
Halliburton? Abu Ghraib? Bush? Blair? Howard? Berlusconi? Bechtel? Gonzalez?

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Jan 17 2005 22:35 utc | 36

@ fauxreal and annie: Thank you both. Something to focus on.

Posted by: beq | Jan 17 2005 22:48 utc | 37

@CJ if we want to quote fairy tails.
Here is Genesis 15:18 from the Jewish Bible:
“In that day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: ‘Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates;'”

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 17 2005 22:56 utc | 38

Clueless Joe- the problem with the Christian versions is that they are so deterministic, and really hateful toward the earth. it’s really strange to me how the “female” (the nuturant aspect of life) is detested in some religions. not strange, I suppose, since anyone having fun having sex seems to scare them so much, and female=sex for hetero males. it must be difficult to be so hardwired…
take your example with the female as the whore of babylon. if they can’t pay for sex, they don’t seem to be able to enjoy the idea of it, positively or negatively.
of course, the maya think the this world’s cycle ends in 2012…but enters a new one.
the hopi have always said that humans can avert their own catastrophes (assuming humans will change their behavior and seek peace and justice…they’re really commie that way. 🙂 they also don’t deny the christian idea of apocalypse. they see it as the outcome of christian ideology as it has been lived in the west, however.
I see it as self-fulfilling prophecy. The lunatics have taken over the asylum and it’s time for a showing of Marat/Sade starring George W. and the end-times players.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 17 2005 23:04 utc | 39

@Jerome@516:
I’m sure you would like Crank Yankers on Comedy Central. Also Drawn.

Posted by: Groucho | Jan 17 2005 23:06 utc | 40

It was inhuman it was dull
and curiously technocratic

(the whip falls)
And now Marat
(and falls again. SADE breathes heavily.)
now I see where
the revolution is leading

Marat Sade -Peter Weiss

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 17 2005 23:10 utc | 41

either one believes acts of nature are related to our psyces or not. i find it too far fetched to think that the earth can’t talk back to us and has no relation to our emotional/psycological transformations. if that were the case, we wouldn’t have senses to facilitate things like premonitions. i suppose there are degress which one can either reject or except any signs. a week before the quake my friend returned from hawii and i was telling her i just felt something very huge was around the corner, she responded that at a circle in hawii she heard about a prophecy that the earth was going to have some huge occurance anyday. after the tsunami i just thought , its not over we are on a roll. call me a nut, but i think the next few months are going to be unusual w/ regards to nature. i can feel it in my bones. i am on high alert. normally i wouldn’t expose myself as being such a kook, but it’s one of those days.

Posted by: annie | Jan 17 2005 23:31 utc | 42

i cannot believe the u s would attempt a second front – they are losing on the main battlefield & they are losing, in a way that i think is clear even for their own strategists. all the leaks suggest this. & ,as i sd to slothrop i think the losses will become more spectacular in a very short period of time
normally that would signify that they would try to ‘settle’ in some ways with iran & then syria. but i agree with what b infers – that it is not just sabre rattling – that hersh’s article is not the result of a psyops operation
then it dawns on you – again – that these criminals are so fucking stupid & so fucking reckless that they will not followe even their own ‘logic’ – that every step of their misshapen path is strewn with bodies, dead & mutilated bodies & these bodies are beginning to mount to high heaven where bush will never go
& so i think that against all evidence of their own defeat – they will go into iran or/& syria & as the australians say, goodnight nurse
if we thought this last year was one where the unbelievable became daily fact & lies became policy of the press & of political administrations – then this year will be a slaughterhouse that will make the recent conflicts of the balkans look like a theatrical exercise
the only way for this war to end is for the war to be brought home
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 17 2005 23:41 utc | 43

Rgiap: these criminals are so fucking stupid & so fucking reckless…
It can’t be that Rgiap. Something else. They (their masters) have a plan, and this stupid reckless behavior is part of it. Don’t try to plug standard logic into it – that is a modern human (western?) tendency, but it doesn’t cover all contingencies.
I know this because it has become very obvious that bushco does not do things in a civilised way. And he, Junior, hasn’t the power to execute these irrational policies by himself, no, it is a bigger power behind him and it seems to have a specific chaos in mind. (Bad for us mortals.)

Posted by: rapt | Jan 17 2005 23:55 utc | 44

I have two different Iranian acquaintances who say Europe, especially France and England, have not been helpful to the cause of political change in Iran. The mullahs are not well liked by especially professional class, and many are angry the economic interests of Europeans trump meaningful changes in Iran.
I don’t know much about these relations, though would like to know more.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 0:16 utc | 45

rapt
no, i think i’m watching criminal behaviour unparallelled since the night of the long knives where justice state & murder liver forever onwards in happy mutual infantilism
slothrop, let me say – that i dearly want the empire to fall & i want it fall from a very great height but yes i too am human & dread what this means for all of us in a very practical way – but let’s be clear – we are the beneficiaries of their murderous policies – we live off their suffering. that is unquestionable. what fanon & then the panthers called ‘white skin privelege’. genets work for exampl especially the last work is an honest attempt by a dishonest man to divest himself of that privelege
the only way – as i sd – is to bring the war home – for those of us in europe & in the belly of the beast to take great risks to stop this murderous regime in their tracks – nixon was stopped – his criminal conspirators were faced with public ignomy – if not real justice – a war against them can be won. i am sure of it
yes & it should become a real questioning of what constitutes ‘terrorism’ today – to turn this sociopathic regime’s lunatic policies on their head. real history, real questions, real facts & real answers. if we do not in our measure attack what is being done in our name – then we are without question – ‘good germans’ & that is as true for us europeans as it is for you americans
the west & iran is a long a complicated business but you are painting with too wide a brush – even the criminal andreotti & his gang gave protection to iraninans under the shah – they constitute a very significant part of the population in perugia for example – in france it has been extremely complicated – they have supported then demonised then supported & demonised – their is both complicity but also a very real tension between the two countries
remember slothrop – the left was close to holding iran after the shah – but if you like they were not capable of the ruthlessness & perhaps even the bloddiness that it required. islamic fundamentalism was. it liquidated the left in the wink of an eye in endless bloody slaughters & the result was the deranged theocracy that exist today
but if anyone imagines there will be flowers welcoming american forces – then think again – they will wipe the earth with american blood – can you imagine how many division of infantry they have for example – & like the iraqis they are prepared for the worst i imagine. i do not want to think about it but we must. i want to believe it is sabre rattling because the reality of an american intervention – even by missiles or through proxy would have the most disastrous consquences, for them, for us
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 18 2005 0:37 utc | 46

another precise piece of work by robert fisk on ‘hotel journalism’ in iraq
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0117-24.htm

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 18 2005 0:47 utc | 47

more from Hersh on CNN with Wolf Blitzer (about halfway down the transcript.)
HERSH: There are people who’ve talked to me inside the government whose information has been reliable to me. Obviously, you know, I’ve been doing alternative history for three years. They’ve been very reliable in the past. They say, look, this is on, this is going to happen. It’s not contingent on Iraq; Iraq’s separate. And we’re also, as you know, escalating our efforts in the global war on terrorism around the world. We’re trying to do more.
BLITZER: So what you’re saying, this would be a limited strike, an airstrike. It wouldn’t be occupying Iran or trying to regime- change, anything along those lines?
HERSH: There is a thought by some of the people, the civilian leadership, that a series of controlled attacks, very accurate, not with too much collateral damage — you’re not going to hit major targets in Tehran where you can hurt a lot of innocents — you’re going to hit missile targets, weapons targets. If that happens, there’s the thought that, you know, Iran is predominantly — it’s not Muslim. Most of the people are Persian — not Arabs, rather. They’re all Muslims.
(fwiw- this was the exact strategy reported on tbrnews around the time of Ramadan, except the idea was to hit the mullahs then.)
(and Hersh goes on about the Pentagon)
HERSH: Oh, my. Poor Porter Goss, he doesn’t know what he got into, you know. Porter Goss has been — basically he’s been committing sort of ordered executions. He’s been — you know, people have been fired, they’ve been resigning.
I write again that the real target of the recent turmoil there was not the operations people, you know, the guys that go abroad and run operations. They’re really a bunch of guys in the intelligence directorate, analysts, who the White House doesn’t like. I quote somebody as saying certain analysts there are seen as apostates, as opposed to being true believers.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 18 2005 4:05 utc | 48

Psyops on Americans courtesy of the Bush administration, who never has to say it’s sorry.
Faulty Intelligence, Dated Information Led to Cautions
(not to mention how effective it was in garnering votes)
In April, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge announced that al Qaeda terrorists might strike during this week’s presidential inauguration festivities in Washington. The warning was part of a drumbeat sounded by U.S. officials throughout 2004 that terrorists were seeking to launch attacks both during and after the election season.
Nine months later, the threat level has been lowered, and Ridge, speaking at a news conference last week, said there is no evidence of a plot to disrupt President Bush’s inauguration. Previous warnings, Ridge explained, stemmed from threat reports tied to the elections — not to the inauguration more than two months later.

…but fully expect the next round of propaganda as America gets ready to target Iranian facilities. I doubt they’ll use the color-coded b.s. anymore. I do expect to hear about WMDs maybe moved to Syria, and Iran as a total danger to us, no matter the evidence that our aggression in the region has helped to spur their nuclear development…and of course no one will ask about Israel’s nuclear program and why Iran might pursue a balance of power in light of this.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 18 2005 5:20 utc | 49

@Kate my, what a very ambiguous compliment, if compliment it was indeed. but anyway the phrase you were looking for is iirc memento mori.
I believe a person (who probably had a specific professional title) was paid to stand in the conquering hero’s chariot as it rolled down the main drag of Rome, whispering this in the Great Man’s ear throughout the victory parade. odd way to earn a living… well, odd in the context of a saner world. in our world where you can make a living selling pet rocks (or imaginary WMD) no method of earning a buck seems really odd.

Posted by: DeAnander | Jan 18 2005 7:12 utc | 50

If we attack Iran — and make no mistake — Iran is prepared a worse case scenario, but I fear not an unlikely one is that Iranian troops flood into Iraq like hornets nest that has been beaten with a stick. American troops will be quickly overwhelmed and unable to evacuate fast enough. 10,000 U.S. troops will die in the first month, between 40k and 60k by the time we are fully withdrawn. Syria will probably brace for an Israeli offensive. What it will come down to is whether the U.S. can withdraw the vast bulk of its personnel in time to give Israel a window to nuke Iran and more imporatantly Iraq before Iranian troops make into Jordan where Israeli forces will have established a defensive line. American and Israeli air power will decimate Iranian air forces but with signifiant losses, especially to American units, while US Navy ships will come under attack by a swarm of suicide and conventional water craft. If Bush launches an nuclear strike on Iran, than vast political turmoil will rack the U.S. Marshall law will be attempted. The economy, through crisis and economic punishment from other nations will paralyse the Amerian economy, followed by the rest of the world. The American military, at least in terms of ground forces will be unable to operate overseas for 18 months, probably more because of domestic unrest. Israel’s Arab neighbors and Iran will try to crush Israel, and I think the likelihood of success is 50%. Oil will soar to $150+ a barrel. We are in for a world of pain — the entire world. I pray that this does not happen. But I don’t think Iran is going to seek a diplomatic solution to air strikes. Iran is not Syria. Oh, and look for Musharafs government to be overthrown within a year of U.S. strikes on Iran.

Posted by: stoy | Jan 18 2005 7:39 utc | 51

The Guardian confirms Hersh through their own sources.
Now US ponders attack on Iran

the Guardian has learned the Pentagon was recently contemplating the infiltration of members of the Iranian rebel group, Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) over the Iraq-Iran border, to collect intelligence. The group, based at Camp Ashraf, near Baghdad, was under the protection of Saddam Hussein, and is under US guard while Washington decides on its strategy.
The MEK has been declared a terrorist group by the state department, but a former Farsi-speaking CIA officer said he had been asked by neo-conservatives in the Pentagon to travel to Iraq to oversee “MEK cross-border operations”. He refused, and does not know if those operations have begun.
“They are bringing a lot of the old war-horses from the Reagan and Iran-contra days into a sort of kitchen cabinet outside the government to write up policy papers on Iran,” the former officer said.
He said the policy discussion was being overseen by Douglas Feith, the under secretary of defence for policy who was one of the principal advocates of the Iraq war. The Pentagon did not return calls for comment on the issue yesterday. In the run-up to the Iraq invasion, Mr Feith’s Office of Special Plans also used like-minded experts on contract from outside the government, to serve as consultants helping the Pentagon counter the more cautious positions of the state department and the CIA.

Posted by: b | Jan 18 2005 8:16 utc | 52

Monbiot in The Guardian

The role of the media corporations in the US is similar to that of repressive state regimes elsewhere: they decide what the public will and won’t be allowed to hear, and either punish or recruit the social deviants who insist on telling a different story. The journalists they employ do what almost all journalists working under repressive regimes do: they internalise the demands of the censor, and understand, before anyone has told them, what is permissible and what is not.
So, when they are faced with a choice between a fable which helps the Republicans, and a reality which hurts them, they choose the fable. As their fantasies accumulate, the story they tell about the world veers further and further from reality. Anyone who tries to bring the people back down to earth is denounced as a traitor and a fantasist

The NYT buries the Hersh story in an Iraq piece, on WaPo I haven´t seen it mentioned, neither in USA Today nor LA Times.
BBC WorldNews had rotating banners and several interviews yesterday. Any serious major German paper has a piece on it today. German radios and TV have it covered in the news. Where is the US press? Where are the US bloggers?

Posted by: b | Jan 18 2005 8:40 utc | 53

That Hersh would publish this is a given. That he could get hold of information like this from the CIA is a crisis. Or, Hersh could simply have been the victim of U.S. information operations.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 18 2005 9:51 utc | 55

I watched the CBS News shown here in Europe this morning. They mentioned the Hersch piece and summarized it thus: The US is making a contingency plan for war with Iran in case it is necessary. They made no mention of US operatives already in Iran. They then added:(paraphrasing) It is known that Iran is providing the majority of the fighters and weapons that are now being used in Iraq against coalition forces.
I was stunned at the spin, although I shouldnt be.

Posted by: mdm | Jan 18 2005 9:59 utc | 56

Slothrop and r’giap, you should be among Bush’s greatest supporters: if I were to allow the tendency to conspiracy theory to overwhelm me I would assume the man and his minions (puppermasters?) were Marxist infiltrators intent in proving all of Uncle Karl’s theories correct.
An imperialist state bankrupting itself on foreign adventures while giving the robber barons at home everything they ask for? Where have we seen this picture before? What are the possible long-term outcomes? Some relative of facism and eventually revolution. Of course, there’s always the chance they’ll collapse under the weight of their own criminality, corruption and failure.
As for rapt, I’m sorry. Look, I know people want there to be a conspiracy, a few rotten apples rotting the barrel, but it just isn’t true: no one is smart enough to pull it off. We are living through the last gasp of the robber barons and the downfall of the superpower and the neo-cons know it. Unfortunately, they will not go quietly into the night, they will not let go of their birthright. Their world view is built around the concept of manifest destiny in which a US ruled by the rich for the rich dominates the world. There is no need for an explicit conspiracy: the attempt to preserve this fantasy on behalf of America is all that’s needed.
They will lose, and they will pass. I’m just afraid that is going to take an excursion into facism and millions more dead before they become a chapter in history.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 10:28 utc | 57

Rapt, these people have never been civilised: they believe in nature red in tooth and claw, they believe altruism is a perversion of human nature, they believe the end justifies the means, they believe a man’s moral worth can be measured by his bankbook. They are not civilised.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 10:32 utc | 58

Colman, I agree with your description.
Maybe in our earlier discussion about capitalism we were discussing different things. Many of you here seem to think that Bushco is the incarnation of perfect capitalism, while I say that they are a failure of capitalism (i.e. capitalism is “checks and balances”, without these, as is happening in the US right now, it is not “capitalism” but just plain old “war lordism” or “feudalism”)
Maybe I am an idealist after all and you guys are the hard-pessimists about human nature…

Posted by: Jérôme | Jan 18 2005 10:43 utc | 59

Is there some kind of 50-year Kondratieff wave for the US-UK to turn over Iranian governments? Kermit Roosevelt, your hour is come again.
I too cannot believe that the U.S.S. Deranged is going to attempt this. There is something vast and peculiar at work, including 30 years of Rumsfeld’s thwarted presidential ambitions (much of Hersh’s piece is devoted to the emasculation of the CIA, former fief of Bush 41, by DoD). So has Rumsfeld finally become reichsfurher after all? Where is Cheney in all this?
Macbeth is certainly the text of the hour. The world seems to be sleepwalking into a disaster of unparalleled proportions and I’ll wager that the next couple of years are going to make many of the 20th century’s worst conflagrations look tame.
And the joke is that it doesn’t have to be this way, it really doesn’t.
But thank god for Hersh. As someone noted above, this latest New Yorker piece has been reported as a news item all over the world, including the print FT yesterday and the BBC website and broadcast news (he was interviewed last night by BBC Newsnight, saying some of the sources lately cited he’s known for over 20 years). He really is the Zola of the age.
For the rest of us, resistons ensemble.

Posted by: Ineluctable | Jan 18 2005 11:15 utc | 60

Colman
Look, I know people want there to be a conspiracy, a few rotten apples rotting the barrel, but it just isn’t true: no one is smart enough to pull it off.
I have been throwing this around for some time now and have come to somewhat the same conclusion. I had always thought that there had to be someone, a person or at most a very close circle, that called the shots. Everything seems just too well organized to be anything else. Then while diving I saw huge schools of fish who would suddenly change direction all together and in perfect synchronization, never running into each other or even a single one going in different direction. I have observed the same thing in flocks of birds. Perhaps people behave in the same way, all of the men and women who are the movers and shakers in our society instinctively know what to say and when to say it.
This is certainly easier to swallow than the reptile conspiracy theory…

Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 18 2005 11:27 utc | 61

I just finished reading Heilbroner’s “The Worldly Philosophers” and one thing that struck me was his use of “capitalisms” in the final section.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 11:44 utc | 62

Assuming there is war with Iran, where will the domestic protest come from ? We should assume extensive propaganda will have been set in place, and the Democratic party neuterized.
Without organizations, and a coherent platform, unrest can be quickly marginalized as “terrorism” and brought under control by the jackboots. This is where the dittoheads come in; the right has been breeding them to carry out internal repression for a good while.

Posted by: jeff | Jan 18 2005 12:05 utc | 63

De, yes. Compliment intended. I’d only ever heard memento mori in the way Robert Frost used it his poem “Lesson for Today”… one of my favorites, in which is he considering his own mortality, and that of everyone else. I hadn’t known ’til now the association with that Roman custom.
“I hold your doctrine of Memento Mori.
And were an epitaph to be my story
I’d have a short one ready for my own.
I would have written of me on my stone:
I had a lover’s quarrel with the world.”

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 18 2005 13:08 utc | 64

Iran: We can repel U.S. attack (CNN)

Iranian Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani said the Islamic Republic, which has seen U.S. forces topple regimes in neighboring Afghanistan and Iraq in the last three years, did not fear attack.
“We are able to say that we have strength such that no country can attack us because they do not have precise information about our military capabilities due to our ability to implement flexible strategies,” the semi-official Mehr news agency quoted Shamkhani as saying.
“We can claim that we have rapidly produced equipment that has resulted in the greatest deterrent,” he said, without elaborating.

(thanks to SusanG for the tip)

Posted by: Jérôme | Jan 18 2005 13:43 utc | 65

“We can claim that we have rapidly produced equipment that has resulted in the greatest deterrent,”
A small underground test of a nuclear device would be no suprise to me. What would follow?

Posted by: b | Jan 18 2005 13:55 utc | 66

Gaming that out would be interesting if there were rational players involved. Given the pack of loonies on the field here, I don’t think one could do more than outline the options.
If Iran tests a bomb and the US pulls back, then that will clearly send the message that if you want to be safe from the US you need a nuke. However, if the US goes ahead and attacks anyway, using the bomb as an excuse, then the Iranians are not short of targets and they don’t even need to air-deliver devices. A truck or a boat would do fine. US carrier group? Invasion forces? Oil infrastructure? So many possibilities.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 14:19 utc | 67

It probably takes wiser men than the Mullahs are to see that, beyond the dangerous US propaganda, the world would indeed benefit from their nuclear abstention. But, of course, the message of Iraq is: Get nukes as quickly as you can, because that is the best defense against a military attack. Ultimately wrong, but the dynamics of the strategies of prevention (which cause the very thing they seek to prevent) is in full swing.
Perhaps mankind is only seriously asking itself whether it deserves to survive. We’ll get the answer, I’m sure.

Posted by: teuton | Jan 18 2005 14:21 utc | 68

Maha is blogging on the Hersh article. The Road to Tehran
I agree with her that it is very difficult to define or describe the thinking process of the neocons.

And I struggle to come up with a word that might describe neocon thought processes. Stupid, although applicable, doesn’t reach it. Same with foolish. The massive preposterousness of whatever it is neocons substitute for thinking is both awesome and terrible, like the tsunami. It’s more unimaginable than ten-dimensional hyperspace. If we ever flush these specimens out of the Pentagon, we should ship ’em to Stephen Hawkings.

Posted by: Fran | Jan 18 2005 14:21 utc | 69

teuton
Why do you say the nuke strategy is “ultimately wrong”. What is the other option for deterence to the US ?

Posted by: ed_finnerty | Jan 18 2005 15:10 utc | 70

Colman
I don’t know what you’re saying. Demonstrate to me anywhere in my writing where I asm a ‘conspiracy theorist.’

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 15:58 utc | 71

Colman said, “…preserve this fantasy…”
My problem with your thesis Colman is that these guys can’t be so dumb as to stick with a fantasy that has been proven over and over not to bring that orgiastic dream, or whatever the supposed benefit.
To me it just doesn’t follow, which is why I seek another (hidden) explanation for their behavior.
Jerome reported, quoting the Iranian defense minister:
“We can claim that we have rapidly produced equipment that has resulted in the greatest deterrent,” he said, without elaborating.
After that it was assumed here that he was talking about nukes. It has been reported elsewhere that Russia has developed a supersonic earth-hugging missile that can destroy an aircraft carrier with warning, and that this weapon is set up in Iran. The warhead is not necessarily nuclear; it is the high speed (and sufficient range) which make it deadly enough.
I suspect that it is this weapon that gives our war planners the heebie jeebies, one that can totally neutralise the fleet in the Persian Gulf.

Posted by: rapt | Jan 18 2005 16:07 utc | 72

Slothrop: the conspiracy theory comment was not aimed at you or r’giap. I was putting forward the theory, which I am almost convinced is quite mad, that Bush and Co are closet disciples of Marx.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 16:20 utc | 73

Rapt, you assume that they acknowledge that their mistakes are responsible for their failures. I don’t believe they do: they blame the CIA, the FBI, the military, the Iraqis, the Europeans, anyone but themselves. The problem is not that their theories are wrong, but that the people they told to put them in place did not execute the plans properly. From that point of view, all they have to do is make sure that their minions do the job properly this time.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 16:27 utc | 74

these criminals are so fucking stupid & so fucking reckless…
and so fucking racist. no need to talk of theory – there is enough real conspiring taking place right now. i can understand why it gets ignored, but i will never accept it. when i think of conspiracy theory, the “international communist conspiracy” or the current rhetoric of the terrorist threat to the homeland stand out. a reality based on lies is not a reality at all, but a sick fantasy. the u.s. and russia have 95% of the nuclear armament on the planet. either that leverage has to go, or the scales must be evened out w/ a new, broader arms race. while no society which has real and lasting values needs to rely on force for their propagation, no society which plans on survival should ignore self-defense. it’s time for the rest of the world to make a stand. if the governments won’t do it, the people of the world simply must or they will eventually face annihilation. bully’s will not back down so long as they sense weakness. and reason will not change minds that are not rational. true strength arises from majority consensus. if we do not stand up and insist on being counted as resistors & sane humanitarians, we will be counted as sheep. where are our worldwide protests against imperialism, war & genocide? where are our warriors?

Posted by: b real | Jan 18 2005 16:39 utc | 75

I too heard on CBS News last night in the US the comment about Iran infiltrating fighters into Iraq. This turns the propaganda on its head, before it was foreign Jihadists causing all the turmoil in Iraq. Face it, we are having mixed Dr Joseph Goebbels and Pravda flash backs here in the USA.
What is truly scary is that there has been no preparation, no lead up, no Mushroom Cloud warnings in the morning. Either they think they can fight a Holy War with all the Middle East without the draft and the economy can continue fine with $200 a barrel oil after the closure of the Straits of Hormuz; or they all are delusional. I’m afraid they are just delusional. They know there is some horrible event planned in the USA to galvanize support for WW III. They have prepared for the Apocalypse.

Posted by: Jim S | Jan 18 2005 16:46 utc | 76

Apparently this happened in the Ukraine, could this also happen in the US??
Power to the people (with the help of the secret service)

Posted by: Fran | Jan 18 2005 17:06 utc | 77

Fran, the US and Europe funded the bribes to the Ukrainian Secret Service, who has the deep pockets to fund the CIA?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 18 2005 17:35 utc | 78

Rapt, would they sacrifice a Carrier to a SS20 Sunburn missile in another “Gulf of Tonkin” incident?
You bet they would.
They are gamblers at the table now losing hand over fist, they’ve sold the house already.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 18 2005 17:41 utc | 79

condie testifies today that the tsunami was a wonderful opportunity for the us. says we are learning more about how terrorist funding operates. countering the negative propaganda about the us will be a big item on her agenda.

Posted by: b real | Jan 18 2005 17:47 utc | 80

b real, that was some sort of satire right? Clearly the soon-to-be Secretary of State of the US did not say that the tsunami was a wonderful opportunity. That’s unpossible.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 18:06 utc | 81

the theory, which I am almost convinced is quite mad, that Bush and Co are closet disciples of Marx. well at least some of the Neoconderthals are ex-Trots. and to have been a die-hard Trot in the 70’s seems to me to have required a certain capacity for ideological delusion and fossilisation, no? perhaps the basic personality type will seize on whatever ideology fits its emotional needs at the time, i.e. offers the moral certainty of revanchist doctrinaire-ism, but also leads to real bullying-power over other people…?
the other possibility of course (Occam would like it better) is that on the basics, Marx was right, and that advanced capitalist economies do in the end produce unmanageable surpluses and a maldistribution of wealth that can only be rectified by periodic crash-n-burns.
@Jerome, I think what you fail to grasp mon ami, is that most of the neocon “thinkers” in the US would call the French economy “socialist” or even “communist”, by comparison with their own, brutal, primitive brand of macho Casino Capitalism. so when you talk about “capitalism” you are talking about, er, the concept of Dog as embodied in a King Charles Spaniel whereas those of us living in the US since Reaganism are talking about the concept of Dog as embodied in a rabid pit bull…

Posted by: DeAnander | Jan 18 2005 18:08 utc | 82

@CP
Your comment supports my argument that there is nothing rational about the way bushco is playing this game, as in “national defense”.
The other game is going on under the table and it has nothing to do with preserving our beloved country, or democracy, or anything else we consider civilized.

Posted by: rapt | Jan 18 2005 18:14 utc | 83

Colman,
Alas, Condi DID say it. The tsunami was a “wonderful opportunity” for the U.S. to spread goodwill.
Fortunately, Boxer ripped her up one side and down the other for this very “diplomatic” comment.
For those not listening (or watching), the two heroes of this hearing so far are Boxer — who basically called Rice a flat-out liar by reading her pre-Iraq invasion statements into the record — and Kerry, who was more subdued by quite dogged in calling Rice on her bullshit.

Posted by: SusanG | Jan 18 2005 18:14 utc | 84

deanander
I’ve heard the trotsky-neocon connection, but can only think the similarity is lack of faith in single-country revolution.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 18:23 utc | 85

Well slothrop, my Marxist theology is a bit rusty, so I’m trying to remember the gist of the Lenin/Trotsky divide without much success; but anecdotally I seem to recall the Trots I knew in college were fervent adherents of the “vanguard” and “internationale” concepts, i.e. that world revolution, and a World International, were the ultimate goal, and that an elite/enlightened Vanguard would lead the way. And of course they thought that’s who they were, the Vanguard.
So the basic structure is there: We (the Vanguard) are especially enlightened and know what is Right for Everyone, and We therefore have the right (if we get the chance) to impose our system on everyone, world-wide. By whatever means necessary, since ends justify means.
In a nutshell this is the Neoconderthal position as well, except that instead of a worker’s revolution for the world they want a neocon/theocon revolution for the world. They still see themselves personally (and the US nationally) as the Vanguard, and they believe in historical determinism (a point which, in my limited understanding of Marx, I always thought the weakest in his worldview)… the idea of history as a clockwork mechanism inexorably grinding towards a predetermined outcome…

Posted by: DeAnander | Jan 18 2005 18:37 utc | 86

DeAnander, they don’t know anything but Marx and Trotsky. They imbibed it with their mothers’ milk. American political discourse has always been a funhouse mirror for things coming down (intellectually) in Europe, but this little twist is truly spectacular. It’s like taking a (messianic) turbine out of a hydroelectric plant and grafting it onto a model airplane.

Posted by: alabama | Jan 18 2005 18:55 utc | 87

I’m sceptical of even contiguity of thought within the ambit of “neoconservatism.” The texts I’ve read are Kristol’s essay collection, the Himmelfarb book on bourgeois values, Bell’s ideology book, Fukayama’s end of history thing. There’s some more, can’t remember. One thing I notice is a gap in ideology steering fukayama as compared to Hayek’s “What Is a Conservative?” The former fucks up Nietzsche/Hegel to argue for an end of history and the overman (it’s been awhile since I read that silly thing, but I think ‘last man’ was not understood by Fukayama–last man is the despised herdman in nietzsche) In the latter, Hayek extols the whigs who were/are revolutionary bourgoisie. Kristol, neoliberal econos surely belong to Hayek’s camp. Bell reads like an hegelian on other hand.
Anyhow, mishmash of stuff.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 18:55 utc | 88

I just want to add: a strange move in right libertarian thought is the defense of historic telos. This implies structure/the diachronic/logics of social development, etc. that the right liberal tradition hates. “There is no society” said Maggie Thatcher. All voluntarism, no determinism. It is no simplification of this tradition to say that constraints on individual agency are merely excluded from analysis. This delusion is the only glue that holds neoconservatism together.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 19:15 utc | 89

“no constraints” where it comes to the worship of capital, that is.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 19:35 utc | 90

About all this, rgiap said it best: Who are their artists?
Kevin Costner, American Idol, Steven Spender, the NFL? I don’t know.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 19:55 utc | 91

“Whose spirit is this?” we asked, and we knew that it was the spirit that we sought, and knew that we should ask this often… (Wallace Stevens).
Much can be discovered about a person by what music they listen to.

Posted by: slothrop | Jan 18 2005 20:03 utc | 92

Exclusive information gathered by Asia Times Online shows that Pakistan has provided extensive facilities to special United Kingdom and US units to train them in commando operations in Pakistan’s port city of Karachi, which in many ways resembles the Iranian towns of Tehran, Shiraz, Isphan and other urban centers. Special forces from the US and Britain have staged unannounced exercises in Karachi. With its maze of high rises, communication networks and the division of the city (Sher-i-Bala and Sher-i-Payien), Tehran and Karachi are very similar.

Karachi opens door to US forces

Posted by: b | Jan 18 2005 20:25 utc | 93

from the hearing today, it sounds more like they want to hurry up and go after chavez. kpfa will have seymour hersh on after the hearing ends. lamar alexander is concerned that we not lose the power that has earned 5 or 6% of the people on the planet 25 or so % of its money. haiti is still the white man’s burden. didn’t know this, but condie says that the role of the us military is to provide “immediate stabilization” for “peaceful transitions”. no, Colman, i am not making this stuff up. these folks are dangerously out-of-touch w/ the facts on the ground everywhere, evidently, unless they only spew forth this nonsense to get it into the record.

Posted by: b real | Jan 18 2005 20:55 utc | 94

I’m sorry for my optimism, b real, it was an unaccountable lapse.

Posted by: Colman | Jan 18 2005 22:17 utc | 95

btw, did anyone else catch the phrase that Hersh used in the Blitzer transcript about the way in which is was writing “alternative history” the last three years? It seems that phrase was picked up by the Pentagon spokesperson, DeRita, who took it to mean that Hersh was writing a piece of speculative fiction.
I assume Hersh is not venturing into Turtledove territory.
I wonder where DeRita heard the phrase to respond to it in that way? I assume Hersh has used the expression in other interviews.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 18 2005 22:37 utc | 96

hersh made the stmt last year that he was writing an alternative history of the war & it has been picked up in many headlines since.

Posted by: b real | Jan 18 2005 22:44 utc | 97

correction – hersh has used the phrase on many occasions to describe his work in contrast to the msm, which prefers to stock up on the koolaid.

Posted by: b real | Jan 18 2005 22:49 utc | 98

It’s not too often I can agree with an article from the American Conservative but Polk is mostly telling it like it is, imho. His point about the Brits fighting the Irish for 900 years is particularly well made.

Posted by: DeAnander | Jan 19 2005 2:55 utc | 99

From Kate’s link to the DoD above, this is what DeRita said:
By his own admission, Mr. Hersh evidently is working on an “alternative history” novel.  He is well along in that work, given the high quality of “alternative present” that he has developed in several recent articles.
However, Hersh has not said he’s working on a novel. He said he’s been presenting/writing an “alternative history” to counter what the Bush Adminstration has fed to the public via their plants in the news media.
Whether DeRita is stupid or intentionally misrepresenting Hersh, he’s definitely constructing his own “untruths.”
 

Posted by: fauxreal | Jan 19 2005 3:13 utc | 100