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January 26, 2005
Open Thththread
News, views, opinions …
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Some Iraq news An very important attempt for our times to rescue eros from thanatos by writing the Bible in reverse so that it runs from apocalypse to Eden, and Eve is rewarded with love for seeking knowledge rather than punished: A Very Long Engagement. Posted by: Gaspard de la Nuit | Jan 26 2005 17:15 utc | 2 How could I honestly deny that I’m delighted to see thirty-one marines go down in flames? I remember cheering at the first news of the Tet offensive, and haven’t much changed in the thirty-seven years intervening. True, there’s also a compassionate voice within me that harbors consoling thoughts for the families that lost those thirty-one kids, but so long as Bush stages this war as a fight of his team against mine (the “team of sadistic abandon” against the “team of mercy”), then the fighter within me will silence the voice of compassion. His war is utterly degrading: it turns us into bush-league spectators, it insults our dignity, it wounds our narcissism, and it stains our conscience. Bush will pay a price for that insult, that wound and that stain–a price that he can’t begin to imagine (neither can we). Posted by: alabama | Jan 26 2005 17:29 utc | 3 alabama Posted by: slothrop | Jan 26 2005 17:55 utc | 4 Rush Limbaugh is scared. He was just quoting Moveon.org as saying their not falling for the inside the beltway BS (I have to listen because I have two rethugs in my office and I don’t mind hearing what the enemy says). It means the grassroots is set on breaking the K Street influence on the party. If the dems get back to being the working mans party, then el Rushbo as he likes to call himself, he knows the repubs are toast. Posted by: jdp | Jan 26 2005 17:59 utc | 5 @ alabama: How about eternity in a sea of bloody boiling crude? Posted by: beq | Jan 26 2005 18:00 utc | 6 jdp Posted by: dan of steele | Jan 26 2005 18:20 utc | 7 I just love reading STARS AND STRIPES when I get the chance. Posted by: FlashHarry | Jan 26 2005 18:25 utc | 8 beq, he’s already boiling in a sea of bloody crude, and also seems to think he’s immortal, so boiling forever in that particular sea probably wouldn’t bother him at all. But if the name “Bush” were to take on an infinite stain–like the name “Nixon”–this, if it were to happen, would bother him very much indeed…. Posted by: alabama | Jan 26 2005 18:30 utc | 9 I’ve tried channelling my inner Billmon over Gonzales. I thought you folks would appreciate it. In some ways Nixon is vindicated by the spineless response of kerry/dnc to attacks on Kerry’s postwar activism. Instead of that war receiving its fullest condemnation, the various pragmatisms of the pro-Vietnam crowd were apologized for because ‘we didn’t take the gloves off, but this time…’ If anything, Nixon’s image visavis Vietnam has been rehabilitated as a man victimized by a collective lack of Will to get the job done. Posted by: slothrop | Jan 26 2005 18:42 utc | 11 alabama: Something I read somewhere in the last few days: “We should get down on our knees and pray that george bush is president of the usa for the rest of his life….” That would never do, having just suffered through Reagan’s timely passing. Actually, I prefer to think of him spending many many long years watching his back. But what with the family history, the name is fairly tainted already, isn’t it? Posted by: beq | Jan 26 2005 18:47 utc | 12 alabama Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 26 2005 18:54 utc | 13 I heard Eagleton, or maybe Harvey, complain about the lack of normativity in Chomsky’s corpus. But, that’s always a complaint made against elite theory, for example Habermas’s criticisms about Mills and others. But, everything else Chomsky does is a great benefit: pointing out the contours in history plotted by the ideology of american exceptionalism. Very valuable public intellectual. Posted by: slothrop | Jan 26 2005 19:13 utc | 14 ayn rands prettyboy architect ‘fascinated’ by fascism – phillip johnson died today Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 26 2005 19:24 utc | 15 obviously, such a story needs corroboration, but this is fucking crazy. Posted by: slothrop | Jan 26 2005 19:25 utc | 16 @slothrop Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 26 2005 20:06 utc | 17 Meanwhile, three billmon posts in one day. I wonder if he’s holed up in Davos killing time between job-relevant sessions. Posted by: ralphbon | Jan 26 2005 20:07 utc | 18 the ruling by Clementina Forleo in italy gives me hope.guerrilla, i like that. Posted by: annie | Jan 26 2005 20:26 utc | 19 @slothrop
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jan 26 2005 20:40 utc | 21 These folks are freakingly lucky. Just when the Deadliest day for U.S. in Iraq war happens, unfortunatly no live picture and interviews available, 10 killed in train collision near Los Angeles – live pictures, interviews and lots of grueling details available at low costs. bush is toast. it’s in the air. the fumes from all this freedom-spreading are just too noxious. the kool-aid may look tempting, but its pungency has turned the kids smiles upside down very quickly. those snowballs being tossed around last thursday are still rolling and taking on a life of their own. for instance, in that yahoo news link FlashHarry just posted, there is a rather humourous slideshow of el doofus making more silly faces for the cameras today. and during my user experience, one of the slides was preempted by an ad that read ‘i saw a monkey swimming on the internet today’. bush is no-doubt sweating freedom today… Posted by: b real | Jan 26 2005 21:08 utc | 25 ô b real Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 26 2005 21:14 utc | 26 jeez, alabama, you’re happy that a chopper went down and killed us troops on it? i was just as sick to read your comments as i am sick of this unjust war. Posted by: gylangirl | Jan 26 2005 21:36 utc | 27 The Poodle barks! Well, a little.
Posted by: Fran | Jan 26 2005 21:51 utc | 28 “From Saigon to Baghdad Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 26 2005 22:35 utc | 30 ” The Salvador Option would not be the first embrace of assassination as a tool of occupation undertaken by the United States in Iraq. Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jan 26 2005 22:41 utc | 31 @beq: “Something I read somewhere in the last few days: “We should get down on our knees and pray that george bush is president of the usa for the rest of his life….” Posted by: mistah charley | Jan 26 2005 22:53 utc | 32 mistah charley, precisely, but can you imagine the instant deification? king george to saint george in a blinking second. Posted by: beq | Jan 26 2005 23:11 utc | 33 Gylangirl, alabama: Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Jan 27 2005 0:59 utc | 34 Sy Hersh interviewed. breathless as ever, scary as hell. Damn it, people, I spent a good twenty years. from 1960 to 1980, processing Viet Nam and its aftermath on a daily, sometimes an hourly, basis. I processed all manner of murderous fantasies about the civilian and military, political and non-political folks that got us into that mess and kept us there. I tell you that I processed those fantasies. I had them, heard them, saw them, felt them, and survived them without doing the slightest harm to me, to them, or to any innocent bystanders. Let’s just say that my humor is of the “choleric” kind. And now, thanks to this Bush character and his homicidal colleagues–“base-born products of base beds,” as Yeats might well have called them–those fantasies are welling up again all over the place. Shall I refrain from sharing them here? No, I shall not refrain from doing that. This is the way I’ve learned to process these things, and if Bush walked into the room right now, I think I’d know how to greet him. Posted by: alabama | Jan 27 2005 1:45 utc | 36 aieee. a good Buddhist would grieve for all deaths equally, souls bound upon the Wheel, condemned to return to this burning house, and so forth. a good xtian would forgive all equally. I’m neither. as one who hasn’t got the guts to refuse to pay my taxes this year because I know enough about the US prison system to really, really, really want not to end up inside it, how much can I look down on the grunts who do as they are told rather than face court-martial, or maybe an “accidental” friendly fire incident? DeAnander, this thing has to get too costly, and over and over again in ways that make us feel awful about ourselves and our fellow men. The body politic will just have to vomit up this war machine in all its various states…. I think my murmurings here must have shown that I’m hardly a pacifist, and hardly an enemy of the armed forces. A family friend, a Marine Corps officer who served with distinction in the Tet offensive, once told me that he survived the aftermath of his tour in Viet Nam by being posted at Parris Island, where he didn’t have to deal with churlish, scape-goating civilians every day of his life. Since he’s a man that I’ve always admired, I was rather ashamed to think of myself as the sort of person he had to be saved from…. But these wars are very bad news; if it takes a whole lot of losses to convey that news to the people, then a pedagogical optimist living within me says to let this course of instruction run its terrible course. Posted by: alabama | Jan 27 2005 2:53 utc | 39 ‘bama if VN did not teach this lesson, if Korea did not teach this lesson, if [name your favourite idiotic wars going back way past Napoleon] did not teach this lesson then what will? the paedogogical pessimist in me says that “people never learn” any more than trout learn not to take the fly. one generation — not even that — and they are ready to do it all again. I tend to agree that the number of American combat deaths seem not to matter to the chicken warmongers. I see the combat deaths as further evidence that the war is wasting human life, whether Iraqui or American. Posted by: gylangirl | Jan 27 2005 3:17 utc | 41 People don’t have to learn much of anything, DeAnander, except to stop the business in question here and now. That particular lesson–it a lesson is what it is–appears to be one that doesn’t let itself be shared, and I wonder, just like you, why this has to be so. The short Freud would be this: war simplifies, and when life gets too complex, people seek relief in the simplicity of the Death Wish. Posted by: alabama | Jan 27 2005 3:18 utc | 42 and Anonymous Coward at 9:08 yes, Cole is brilliant today. Posted by: DeAnander | Jan 27 2005 3:18 utc | 43 Off-topic in the Open Thread? Posted by: DM | Jan 27 2005 4:53 utc | 45 and your point DM is…? that Crichton’s dead right, that the consensus of the world’s climate scientists is a whole lotta BS, so we should all just chuckle when we read their best-effort projections of climate change rates and consequences? I’d place more faith in 15+ years of research evaluated by the IPCC than in the rightwing fantasies of a third-rate novelist, myself… suspect he’s on the same payroll as Armstrong and the rest. @DeAnander Posted by: DM | Jan 27 2005 5:31 utc | 48 The Cheney’s visiting Auschwitz – must have been a very enjoyable experience. See the picture here. Maybe they see the possibilities for the US. Posted by: Fran | Jan 27 2005 6:03 utc | 49 Slothrop: Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 27 2005 7:35 utc | 50 Slothrop: These dead must not be praised for the sacrifice to our freedoms, but must be remembered as those tossed to the floor like pawns in a giant’s game of chess. Only after we understand how our dead soldiers have been used, only then will these dead deserve to hear the trumpets blaring above their graves.” Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 27 2005 7:38 utc | 51 Damn… Sigh. Alabama. Thanatos. Blessed relief.eh? Sigh. Empty boots on the ground. AFSC. No sentences from me. Only fragments. I keep thinking of younger people without a sense of even recent history. I’m over-the-top or I’m in some place of temporary blissful dissociation, knowing that short of global disaster nothing will stop the juggernaut, I rarely post, even on the All Spin Zone, my “home”. And sometimes, my still center point comes. Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 27 2005 7:48 utc | 52 Some journalists turn to the real world and even get printed – seachange?
I think there is a yet untold story behind this:Controversial Pentagon Official Is Stepping Down
Ahh, Frank Rich is moving to the top of my favorite commentators list. Forget Armor. All You Need Is Love
‘…OTOH, they don’t have all the information they need to make rational judgements …” gylangirl @10:17pm Posted by: esme | Jan 27 2005 8:38 utc | 56 Feith to step down? Maybe that spy probe finally got the better of him. Or he’s been proposed the post of gauleiter of the West Bank by some Likudnik friends of his. Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 27 2005 9:04 utc | 57 The Fair and Balanced Inauguration snippet at iFilm has nearly 600,000 downloads.
KS @ 2:35AM to Slothrop: “Nixon vindicated? Could you ‘splain…” Posted by: esme | Jan 27 2005 9:25 utc | 59 Thanks, esme. That does it for me. I never equated Kerry with the Vietnam vets with Purple Hearts that I knew personally. I never thought Kerry was contender, let alone a Ron Kovic. He did something when he came home. But after political cooptation by money and power he lost the meaning. He was never mine. Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 27 2005 9:32 utc | 60 @CluelessJoe Posted by: DM | Jan 27 2005 9:33 utc | 61 DeA, Posted by: anna missed | Jan 27 2005 9:48 utc | 62 RealClimate link. Contrary view of course, but it’s no slam-dunk. Posted by: DM | Jan 27 2005 10:15 utc | 63 Crichton basically is an ignorant hack who barely knows anything in science and in history, so I don’t even see the point of bothering with this. You don’t use Mein Kampf to seriously discuss the US Constitiution at a Law School level. Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 27 2005 11:48 utc | 64 DM, it is clearly true that science and politics are entagled messily in the climate debate, and to be honest I have a strong feeling that anybody who claims to have a high certainty about what is going to happen has an agenda to sell. That report yesterday had ranges of 2-11C rises in temperature. Well, it seems that Environmentalism is another taboo subject – sort of on a par with Sufism or Creationism. Ad hominem attacks on Crichton are not really doing much to counter his claim that there is a shitload of hubris piled on top of the real science. Posted by: DM | Jan 27 2005 13:15 utc | 66 You know, that is precisely the attitude that pushes scientists into over-stating their positions, as I believe many of them have. DM, Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Jan 27 2005 13:51 utc | 68 Askod, that sums up my view pretty much too: I think we’re contributing, but we’re not all of it. We should probably take the foot off the accelerator though. Taboo subjects? Since when is Sufism taboo? And what’s the issue with Sufism? I’m lost here. As for creationism, there’s no taboo here. I mean, having an imaginary friend you talk with when you’re 8-y old is fine; having an imaginary friend not only you talk with but who created the universe and the rest 6.000 years ago, when you’re an adult, that just deserves to be locked into an asylum. Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jan 27 2005 14:38 utc | 70 My problem is where do “scientists” get off “over-stating their positions”. Do the science, run the models and the peer-reviews but don’t try to set policy or political agenda. Posted by: DM | Jan 27 2005 14:56 utc | 72 The reason they end up misstating results is that people are too goddamn lazy and stupid to listen to or report on anything that doesn’t sound dramatic and nobody wants to act on something that might not happen. How do you suggest they beat off the massive pressure to ignore their results? Colman – carbon xredits are actually a smart judo move on the capitalists. Posted by: Anonymous | Jan 27 2005 15:17 utc | 77 Anonymous-type-person, I’m not convinced of that, though I haven’t looked in much detail: it looks to me like it will work out with third-world industries being bought and closed down in order to excuse first-world waste, but maybe there are safeguards against that. Thanks for the Gore Vidal-link, beq. How refreshing to read. Posted by: teuton | Jan 27 2005 15:40 utc | 79 Colman – sorry, that was me above, defending the carbon credit mechanism… Posted by: Jérôme | Jan 27 2005 15:58 utc | 80 Jeebus Houdini: one more.
Posted by: beq | Jan 27 2005 16:12 utc | 81 How explosive would this be if true? Posted by: Uncle $cam | Jan 27 2005 16:18 utc | 82 Uncle $cam, I’m getting “page not found” on the first link and filtered out on the second. Can you pot more? Posted by: beq | Jan 27 2005 16:39 utc | 83 beq, you can access that “witness” article through Rense. Posted by: rapt | Jan 27 2005 16:46 utc | 85 Oh yeah, and on Gore Vidal’s interview with Amy Goodman. Posted by: rapt | Jan 27 2005 17:03 utc | 86 Buzzflash interview with Thom Hartmann, on corporate dominance in government… Pretty good. Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jan 27 2005 17:52 utc | 87 Fran, Chirac proposed some form of the Tobin tax. Blair sort of seconded it. Posted by: Blackie | Jan 27 2005 18:11 utc | 88 Outside the US people are pleased at US soldiers’ deaths for a simple reason: It is the only thing that much of the US public pays attention to. The plain numbers of the regularly enlisted with families cannot be hidden. (Green card orphans?) Posted by: Blackie | Jan 27 2005 18:14 utc | 89 Hear, hear!
Pure dynamite
for Uncle $cam @ 11:18 and then beq… Posted by: esme | Jan 27 2005 21:23 utc | 92 Senator wants boxing gloves on chickens Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn | Jan 28 2005 5:02 utc | 93 The Will of God. I received the following e-mail this morning. I guess it is fraud. I have no idea how my e-mail adress got on a Christian website. Somehow it remindes me of other letters I used to reveive from Nigeria, only there I would have become very rich too. Besides I do not have a ministry, though there are people who think that I have a tendency towards preaching. So what to make out of this? I have no intention of responding, am just curios what someone else thinks about this. Just reading it, makes me feel that I want to take a shower, it feels so sticky.
Posted by: Fran | Jan 28 2005 6:06 utc | 95 The Irish must have felt this in their bones, when they demonstrated against Bush on his visit there. Posted by: Fran | Jan 28 2005 6:39 utc | 96 speaking of this and that, i’ve just heard that the marines who died in the helicopter crash this week – the one that determined the scheduling of bush’s news conference – were all veterans of the destruction of fallujah, which i regard as a case of collective punishment worthy of the nazis (“never again”? that depends on what you mean by “again”) – but the burning of atlanta in the u.s. civil war could also fall under that rubric, of course Posted by: mistah charley | Jan 28 2005 14:03 utc | 97 BushSpeak: Posted by: Fran | Jan 28 2005 14:20 utc | 98 @ Fran: I got it too and didn’t have the “Will” to open it. virusphobia. Posted by: beq | Jan 28 2005 14:40 utc | 99 Fran: Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Jan 28 2005 14:40 utc | 100 |
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