Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
December 9, 2004
CFO

To be Chief Financial Officer of a big company is a high profile and lucrative job. A CFO  savors respect and of course expects to be handled with dignity.

Suddenly the markets read about rumors floated by company board members and the chairman’s staff. The sitting CFO is to be fired as soon as a replacement is found.

With a job description in hand head hunter are out to search for a new CFO. The chairman requires any new CFO to publicly support any of his decisions. Regard for the company’s financial position or economic logic is not desired.

As anybody knowledgeable knows, the chairman’s economic ideas are nuts and will bankrupt the company. The search team fails to come up with a candidate.

The sitting CFO, already on his way out, is reluctantly asked to stay. He acquiescently accepts.

One senior administration official said Treasury Secretary John W. Snow can stay as long as he wants, provided it is not very long.
WaPo – Monday, Nov.29 – Bush to Change Economic Team

President Bush has decided to replace John W. Snow as treasury secretary and has been looking closely at a number of possible replacements.
NYT – Monday, Dec. 6 – Treasury Secretary Is Likely to Leave Soon

Treasury Secretary John W. Snow woke up yesterday and read in a major newspaper for the second Monday in a row that President Bush has decided to replace him, but the former railroad executive still had not gotten the word directly from the White House.
WaPo – Tuesday, Dec. 7 – Snow’s Status Remains Uncertain

President Bush invited Treasury Secretary John W. Snow yesterday to remain on the job after the White House withheld its endorsement for 10 days while aides hinted that he would be replaced.

Snow was kept on only after the White House considered a variety of possible replacements and sounded out at least one top official on Wall Street. That executive turned the White House down, according to financial executives.

.. conservatives realized the remaining candidates were Wall Street executives who might put their concern about rising budget deficits ahead of a push for lower taxes … Given their options, they decided Snow would be the best Treasury chief to push the partial privatization of Social Security and, especially, a restructuring of the tax code
WaPo – Thursday, Dec. 9 – Treasury Secretary Is Asked To Stay

  • How sympathetic will the markets be towards the company´s chairman?
  • Will anybody ever have trust again in that CFO’s public declarations?
  • Will any sane investor think of buying these company’s bonds or shares?
Comments

I do believe I have divined their strategy: they’re going to make it so easy for their critics that the challenge goes out of it and we all move on to more interesting and challenging projects.

Posted by: Colman | Dec 9 2004 13:57 utc | 1

How likely are they to actually attempt to implement a federal sales tax? That would be the most regressive thing they could do, so it seems like the most likely thing for them to do, hitting the poorest of the poor as hard as they can.
I realised recently that the one of the reasons VAT in Europe isn’t so awful is that the poorest of the poor are generally receiving income support so that the effect of VAT is factored into that. I can’t imagine that the US is going to extend welfare to offset the effects of a sales tax.

Posted by: Colman | Dec 9 2004 14:05 utc | 2

Something or other must have caught someone or other by surprise….Were these folks expecting Stephen Friedman to take over, and did his resignation catch them by surprise?

Posted by: alabama | Dec 9 2004 14:22 utc | 3

Restructuring the tax code? What is really needed isn’t a flat tax, it’s a per-head tax. Every single American has to pay the same amount – say, roughly 6.000 $ – and most if not all other taxes are abolished. The real amount may of course vary, depending if children are taxed to the same extent as adults.
I wonder why Grover Norquist didn’t come up with that, instead of a socialist regressive flat tax.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Dec 9 2004 14:28 utc | 4

I think former secretary Paul O’Neill said it all the other night on the Daily Show. Blah.

Posted by: kat | Dec 9 2004 16:59 utc | 5

I’ve not ever been impressed with corporate titles like CEO and CFO. Perhaps that’s because my father had a manufacturing business for most of my formative years. He was the head guy. He was also the guy who worked in the shop with his employees. Eventually he brought on some younger men into “executive positions” who told him his success in his company was worthless, and convinced him to give it all up. I also worked for a boutique firm doing digital inside and outside PR for a very large business software clientele. Messaging. How I learned to hate that word and concept. Shareholder value. Hate that one too. Corporations today in my mind are the same sham as government. CFO? Could be Certifiably Fucked Operations as far as I’m concerned. The first thing we do after the revolution is to revoke the corporations as persons legislation… corporations are not persons.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Dec 9 2004 19:01 utc | 6

@Kate corporations are not persons and if they were, think what insufferable, psychotic gasbags they would be 🙂

Posted by: DeAnander | Dec 9 2004 19:13 utc | 7

De — 😉

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Dec 9 2004 20:19 utc | 8

Cocaine Politics
Drugs, Oil and War
both by Peter Dale Scott

Posted by: fauxreal | Dec 10 2004 0:40 utc | 9

The Psychopaths of Commerce
If anyone wasn’t aware of this documentary

Posted by: gmac | Dec 10 2004 1:35 utc | 10

I love it! Snow has risen to his level of incompetence. The markets haven’t believed the executive’s pronouncements for quite some time now, but the company is still perceived as being too big to fail. That could very well change in the not-distant future.
I wonder what it will do for Snow’s future career in the private sector after the economy begins its “structural adjustment” under his watch. You know what Billmon liked to say – “Fuck up and move up”!
Kate, I misread “messaging” as “massaging” and thought your client company was pressuring you to falsify financial reports! But even just having to listen to vapid jargon would make me hate them too.

Posted by: Harrow | Dec 10 2004 4:29 utc | 11

NYT Editorial on Secretary Snow

Mr. Snow’s reappointment also sends a disturbing, though not surprising, message about policy making. Like other secretaries in the Bush administration, Mr. Snow’s main job has been to promote policies – not make them. To the extent that this administration has engaged in making economic policies (to wit, “tax cuts above all” and “deficits don’t matter”), the policies have come from the president’s inner circle.
Mr. Snow, like so many others around President Bush, is nothing more than a messenger. Congress knows it. The financial markets know it. Our trading partners know it. It strains the imagination that the White House couldn’t find a fitting Treasury secretary among the Wall Street mavens, former politicians and other professionals who were considered for the post. It’s more likely that none were suited for the real job on offer: cheerleader.

The economy won’t really improve unless Mr. Bush starts to listen to people who will tell him things he does not want to hear, like the fact that the only lasting fix for the weak dollar is fiscal discipline to reduce the budget deficit. Mr. Snow is not that person. Most ominously, the right person for that job doesn’t exist – and couldn’t get hired – in this administration.

Posted by: b | Dec 10 2004 7:48 utc | 12

” The first thing we do after the revolution is to revoke the corporations as persons legislation… corporations are not persons.”
Surprise, Kate, the Revolution Must have begun!! Even more suprise, it was begun by rock-ribbed rural republicans.
Rural areas revoke corporate “personhood” in order to reclaim self-rule.
Dateline: Saturday, October 16, 2004
by Ken Picard
Porter Township in northwestern Pennsylvania was an unlikely hotbed for an anti-corporate uprising. The tiny rural community about an hour north of Pittsburgh has a population of only 1500 people, many of whom are staunch Republicans with deeply-held conservative values.
But after the Alcosan Corporation, a Pennsylvania sewage-sludge hauler, threatened to sue Porter Township in 2002 for passing a local ordinance regulating the dumping of sludge in their community, town officials decided that their citizens had taken enough crap from corporations. Literally. So on December 9, 2002, Porter became the first municipality in the United States to pass a law denying corporations their rights as “persons” under the law. Weeks later, Licking Township, another rural Pennsylvania community facing a similar lawsuit, passed a more expansive ordinance revoking all constitutional rights of corporations within their jurisdiction.
Enjoy

Posted by: jj | Dec 10 2004 9:26 utc | 13

I read some great stuff on revoking corporate charters… something “the People” are given to do… I don’t know why the likes of the Enron-type corporations still exist… they violate their charters, charters go bye-bye … yet how often besides what jj posted above do we ever hear of this kind of direct action? I’ll find the reference.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Dec 10 2004 9:32 utc | 14

Just discovered that link to art. I just gave requires a subscription to access their archives. Since this is a short thread, & the Topic SO IMPT to democracy lovers, I’ll post the remainder.
” Since then, dozens of other municipalities across Pennsylvania, some with as few as 1000 residents, have followed suit, reversing nearly 120 years of corporate encroachment on the rights guaranteed to all citizens under the US Constitution. Prompted by the failure of state and federal regulatory agencies to protect citizens’ health, safety and quality of life from large-scale corporate activities, these municipalities took matters into their own hands and reclaimed their right of self-rule. Though the laws fly in the face of more than a century’s worth of legal precedents that say corporations are “persons” protected by the Bill of Rights and the 14th Amendment, thus far these ordinances seem to be working.
Now some Vermonters are looking to follow Pennsylvania’s example and draft similar ordinances here to address environmental and public-health problems stemming from large corporate activities: the influx of big-box stores, the spreading of toxic sludge, even the proposed power increase at the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant. Proponents of this strategy suggest that these laws may even be used one day to challenge undemocratic principles that were written into the World Trade Organization charter and the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Championing this fight is Tom Linzey, a 35-year-old Alabama-born attorney who is the executive director and co-founder of the Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund. Founded in 1995, the Pennsylvania-based CELDF was initially set up to provide free legal services to small community groups that were fighting big environmental battles: toxic-waste incinerators, landfills, municipal sludge fields and corporate factory farms. Since then, however, the nonprofit law firm has expanded its mission to help municipalities around the country roll back corporate rights through local ordinances. CELDF conducts “democracy schools” – intensive, weekend-long seminars that trace the history of corporate rights and help citizens reframe local issues according to a new paradigm. Once such democracy school was held two weeks ago in Putney for 20 Vermonters from the Brattleboro area.
Linzey, who speaks on September 30 at Vermont Law School, explained in a recent interview how this movement began. In the mid- to late-1990s, large out-of-state agribusinesses began applying for permits to build large-scale hog farms in rural Pennsylvania. Local residents, who overwhelmingly opposed these farming operations, sought the help of state and federal regulatory agencies like the EPA. However, these communities soon realized that waging their battle on the regulatory front wouldn’t stop undesirable businesses from moving into town – it would merely lessen the harm those activities caused.
The proposed factory farms were huge operations – 5000- to 6000-head hog farms – that would dwarf neighboring family farms. Before long, CELDF was inundated with phone calls from local officials across Pennsylvania – some 400 townships in all – seeking their help at fending off these corporate farms. So CELDF began researching how this issue had been handled in other states, particularly in the Midwest, where 300,000- to 400,000-head hog farms are common.
This was when Linzey made a startling discovery: nine Midwestern states have laws banning large corporations from owning or controlling farms.
In fact, Nebraska and South Dakota went so far as to incorporate that ban into their state constitutions. So CELDF copied the South Dakota constitutional amendment and used it as a model for local ordinances. Ten townships and five counties in Pennsylvania have adopted the anti-corporate farming ordinance. To date, only one has been overturned by the courts.
During this same period in the 1990s, CELDF also began receiving calls from community groups and local officials who were trying to stop the permitting of sludge fields. Sludge, the solid-waste byproduct of wastewater treatment plants, is not considered a “hazardous waste” by the federal government. Although it can contain as many as 600,000 different toxic contaminants, the US Environmental Protection Agency requires testing for only 11 of those contaminants.
 
Nine Midwestern states have laws banning large corporations from owning or controlling farms.
Spreading sludge on farmland, a practice known as “biosolid land application,” was already a controversial issue in rural Pennsylvania because of its impact on human and animal health. In 1995, two youths died after coming into contact with a newly applied sludge field. In an effort to prevent more sludge from being dumped in their communities, 68 Pennsylvania townships passed anti-sludge ordinances.
The corporate waste haulers didn’t take these ordinances lying down. They challenged the laws in court, arguing that townships were denying them their constitutional rights and didn’t have the legal authority to pass these laws. The corporations also tried to hold town officials personally liable for passing these laws. They based their argument on a federal civil rights law that was passed in the aftermath of the Civil War in order to protect African-Americans from state-sanctioned discrimination.
Since these corporate sludge haulers had deep pockets, it wasn’t even necessary that they win in court. All they had to do was deplete a town’s financial resources by waging a long and costly legal battle. How did CELDF respond? As Linzey explains, CELDF helped Porter and Licking townships draft a “Corporate Rights Elimination Ordinance,” which effectively stripped the corporation of its right to sue. Though these laws were an unprecedented challenge to corporate empowerment, they remain in effect today and have yet to be challenged in court.
“Corporate rights sometimes get talked about as some academic or abstract concept like something that’s taught in a college political science class,” Linzey says. “Here, what folks have said is that our vision for our community does not include land-applied sludge. It does not include factory farms. And that’s the community we want.”
Critics were quick to label the movement the work of liberal, anti-business activists. But as Linzey points out, about 80% of the communities he works with are overwhelmingly conservative and Republican. “Keep in mind, these are rural township officials with the shit-kicker boots and the John Deere hats. These are the guys who clear and salt the roads in the wintertime,” he says. “These are not activists. They are folks who saw a problem and tried to do something about it.”
 
Nebraska and South Dakota incorporated that ban into their state constitutions.
How effective have the ordinances been? Very, says Linzey. “In the 68 townships that have passed sludge ordinances, not one new teaspoon of sludge has been land-applied,” he says. The same holds true for the ban on corporate hog farms. In the 10 townships that passed anti-corporate farm ordinances, Linzey says, not one new corporate hog farm has been established, even though those areas were targeted for more factory farms.
Vermont is no stranger to the legal perversion of corporate “personhood.” In April, 1994, the Vermont Legislature passed the nation’s first law requiring the labeling of dairy products containing the genetically altered growth hormone, rBGH. In response, agribusiness giant Monsanto and a coalition of dairy-industry groups sued the state, asserting that the law was unconstitutional. A federal judge agreed, ruling that the new law violated Monsanto’s First Amendment right “not to speak.”
Several weeks ago, 20 people from southern Vermont spent a weekend at Landmark College in Putney, attending one of CELDF’s democracy schools. Among them was Larry Bloch, a small-business owner from Brattleboro who is with Vermonters Restoring Democracy. It’s an umbrella organization of groups that deal with issues ranging from genetically modified organisms to nuclear power to social and economic justice. Though its members come from a variety of political backgrounds, what unites them, Bloch explains, is a desire to combat corporate dominance over local decision-making.
“When a predatory corporation comes in and says, ‘We’re moving in no matter what and we don’t care if we push out your independently owned local businesses,’ that doesn’t affect only progressives or only conservatives,” Bloch says. “To hear the stories from Pennsylvania was inspiring because these were people who had never been activists and weren’t blessed with a lot of free time or money or the inclination to shake things up.”
Representative Sarah Edwards (P-Brattleboro) agrees. Edwards, who also attended the democracy school, says the seminar helped reframe the debate in her mind, especially on the issue of nuclear power. “It’s helping me to know who my adversary is,” Edwards says. “I’m not talking about individuals. I’m talking about the corporations.
 
Eighty percent of the communities Linzey works with are overwhelmingly conservative and Republican.
“I have friends who work at [Vermont] Yankee. I know management who work at Yankee,” she adds. “This is not about them. This is about the system, the machine of the corporation squeezing out the diversity of voices that is necessary to have a good and healthy democracy.
Democracy schools already have been held in six states. By next year, there will be five permanent “Daniel Pennock Democracy Schools” – named for one of the two boys who died after coming into contact with the toxic sludge. In the past, these schools have largely addressed environmental issues. But that’s charging, Linzey notes. Activists in Roxbury, Massachusetts, for example, hope the Pennsylvania model can be used to challenge the pharmaceutical industry on its policies pertaining to AIDS drugs.
Others see the approach as a way to counter international agreements like NAFTA. John Berkowitz is executive director of Southern Vermonters for a Fair Economy and Environmental Protection. He points to a law passed in Massachusetts 10 years ago that prohibited municipalities from signing contracts with companies that do business with Burma – a country with an abysmal human rights record. After Japan and the European Union filed a complaint about the law with the WTO, in 1997 the US Supreme Court struck down the Massachusetts laws as unconstitutional.
“Wait a minute. Who’s deciding what’s best for a community?” Berkowitz asks. “Is it absentee corporations and people working for trade organizations like the WTO? We’re finding that people’s local decision-making abilities are being trumped by trade agreements that basically say, ‘You can’t decide that at the local level.'”
But as Linzey reminds people who attend CELDF’s democracy schools, local communities can reclaim the power of self-rule. Like hurricanes that feed off warmer waters, the anti-corporate movement draws strength through legal provocation. Says Linzey, “This is about shifting the paradigm to let people understand that the courts do step in to defend community rights over corporate rights.”
Ken Picard is a staff writer for Seven Days. Reprinted with permission.

Posted by: jj | Dec 10 2004 9:34 utc | 15

On my favorite subject of economics as if Americans mattered, The Prospect printed this exc. art, which alternet just reprinted. Since Prospect tends to embrace Unca Miltie’s Screw-the-People “neoliberalism”, I was very encouraged to see this.
The Democrats’ Da Vinci Code
By David J. Sirota, The American Prospect. Posted December 9, 2004.
“As the Democratic Party goes through its quadrennial self-flagellation process, the same tired old consultants and insiders are once again complaining that Democratic elected officials have no national agenda and no message.
Yet encrypted within the 2004 election map is a clear national economic platform to build a lasting majority. You don’t need Fibonacci’s sequence, a decoder ring, or 3-D glasses to see it. You just need to start asking the right questions.
Where, for instance, does a Democrat get off using a progressive message to become governor of Montana? How does an economic populist Democrat keep winning a congressional seat in what is arguably America’s most Republican district? Why do culturally conservative rural Wisconsin voters keep sending a Vietnam-era anti-war Democrat back to Congress? What does a self-described socialist do to win support from conservative working-class voters in northern New England?
The answers to these and other questions are the Democrats’ very own Da Vinci Code – a road map to political divinity….” Link
Well, xDems. tried floating the “maybe we should compete on ‘values'” line. That didn’t fly. The radical right flank of the party is now advocating using Terror as a weapon as Repugs did – see New Repug. Economic populism is obviously the winning approach, as Tom Frank discussed re his bk. on Kansas. Bets on whether elites will adopt it????? Howard Dean is a fairly conservative Republican, in the honorable sense of that term, praised by Business Week & he’s “too far out” for xDem elites…….so. I’m betting the Terrorize ‘Em wing of party takes over – if you can’t delude ’em, cow ’em into submission….but for god sakes don’t discuss economics as if people mattered…..

Posted by: jj | Dec 10 2004 9:54 utc | 16

I hear a lot about the problem as corporations as persons in the US, but I don’t understand the issue: in Irish law, a company is a legal person for assorted purposes, but it doesn’t seem to lead to any particular problems.

Posted by: Colman | Dec 10 2004 11:11 utc | 17

From Ratical.org:
It was back in 1886 that a Supreme Court decision (Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company) ostensibly led to corporate personhood and free speech rights, thereby guaranteeing protections under the 1st and 14th amendments. However, according to Thom Hartmann, the relatively mundane court case never actually granted these personhood rights to corporations. In fact, Chief Justice Morrison Waite wrote, “We avoided meeting the Constitutional question in the decision.” Yet, when writing up the case summary —that has no legal status—the Court reporter, a former railroad president named J.C. Bancroft Davis, declared: “The defendant Corporations are persons within the intent of the clause in section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which forbids a state to deny any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” But the Court had made no such legal determination. It was the clerk’s opinion and misrepresentation of the case in the headnote upon which current claims of corporate personhood and free speech entitlements now rests.
In 1978, however, the Supreme Court further entrenched the idea of corporate personhood by deciding that corporations were entitled to the free speech right to give money to political causes – linking free speech with financial clout. Interestingly, in a dissent to the decision, Chief Justice William Rehnquist pointed out the flawed 1886 precedent and criticized its interpretation over the years saying, “This Court decided at an early date, with neither argument nor discussion, that a business corporation is a ‘person’ entitled to the protection of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”
Talk about activist judges, or activist court reporters.
There is quite a history of corporations dating back to the nation’s founding with Hamilton and Jefferson leading opposite sides of the debate and the National Bank in the middle of it for some years. However, corporations gained considerable wealth and power during the Civil War and aligned themselves with the ruling Republican Party during reconstruction. Bancroft, a former RR magnate, and others had tried since the Civil War to get courts to grant corporations protection under the 14th amendment. The 1886 decision did not actually hear argument or rule on corporate personhood in the case, but Chief Justice Waite told Bancroft that he and the other justices believed the 14th amendment did apply to corporations so Bancroft included Waite’s opinion in the preamble to the formal decision. Subsequent Supreme Court decisions used this one as precedent whenever the issue came up even though the actual decision did not rule on the issue.
I doubt a Supreme Court of right wingers would decide that the 14th amendment did not apply to corporations, but the issue has never really been fully argued in any court. Having read the Democrats Da Vinci Code, I first wondered if Dems could split the Republicans by tackling this one, then thought this issue could also split the Dem base from the DLC. As far as I’m concerned, such a result would be a 2-fer.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Dec 10 2004 21:17 utc | 18

Thanks, jj, for that link to the Sirota article and the info on CELDF.

Posted by: Stoy | Dec 11 2004 5:26 utc | 19

As the resident capitalist over here, and again, with my experience of the Soviet Union, let me say that the invention of the moral person is probably one of the most important steps towards the creation of a level playing field for all.
Without the moral person, you do not deal with “the treasurer of Acme Co.”, you deal with Mr Smith, who also happens to hold the key to the funds of Acme Co. In any transaction, the goal will not be the optimisaion of the treasury of ACME, but the optimisation of Mr Smith’s situation.
Without the moral person, there is no check to corruption, the mix of public and private interests and general sleaze. Of course, the moral person is not enough to prevent that, nut it makes it a lot clearer to all what’s going on if any of the above does go on.
I know that big soulless “moral persons” defending their interests against isolated individuals sounds unfair, but I think the overall balance is favourable.

Posted by: Jérôme | Dec 11 2004 10:23 utc | 20

Thanks for the history lonesomeG, but I still don’t know what the problem is. I suspect it’s over-broad application of the concept of company as person, but I’m not sure.

Posted by: Colman | Dec 11 2004 14:59 utc | 21

We don’t agree on this one, Jerome. I fail to see how a corporation is a “moral person.” Corporations can, in theory, live forever. They can also acquire or merge with other such entities to create a new one, morph into something completely different, spin off parts of themselves to produce other new entities or even be paper shells with no real function other than to serve the accounting purposes of other such entities. These things – and probably many others I haven’t considered – are not possible for human “moral persons.”
In practice, what happens is that the real persons who make the corporate decisions can hide behind the legal facade of corporate personhood and receive much more protection from immoral choices than can ordinary people. When their personal fortunes are involved – as is generally the case – execs can choose immoral policies that add to their personal wealth and often deflect the consequences on to the corporate “person.” Merrill-Lynch is a good example. If memory serves, ML – the corporate “moral person” – paid a piddly fine equal to about their annual cost of stationary while analyst Henry Blodgett was the only one who paid a personal price – not because he was the only one guilty of wrongdoing but because his emails providing examples of the corrupt corporate policy determined by those above him became public, forcing his sacrifice.
In addition, these same corporate execs can use corporate money to advance their personal political agendas – again, a resource not available to an ordinary person. This gives unfair advantage not just to corporations, but to the individuals who make decisions for the corporations.
In short, I don’t believe the original intent of either the first or the 14 amendments (or any other ones) was to grant corporations equal legal footing with human beings. Nor do I think this is a good idea. The people who sought this legal recognition did so ultimately because they understood how they, as human individuals, could benefit by it. The 14th amendment, after all, was designed to offer legal protection to former human slaves; why corporations require the same protection from persecution is beyond me. I don’t know what the best and fairest way is to balance human rights and responsibilities with business and corporate needs in the public arena, but am absolutely certain that equating an abstract legal entity drawn up to pursue one thing – profits – with human beings and their multiple values is not the way to go.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Dec 11 2004 21:49 utc | 22

Colman:
I understand your uncertainty. My own conclusion on the matter is that once the concept of company as person was accepted into law, the entire range of legal opinion defining legal rights for people became available to corporations. Once the concept is granted, how is it possible to place restrictions on it’s application?

Posted by: lonesomeG | Dec 11 2004 21:59 utc | 23

lonesomeG – not sure what I can add. I do see your points. I am also deeply influenced by my experience (and interpretation, however flawed) of the Soviet system, starting back in 1987 when it was barely out of the Brezhnevian woods… Moral person are indeed open to abuse, but they do bring in a fundamentaly new concept, which, in my experience, is useful.

Posted by: Jérôme | Dec 11 2004 23:49 utc | 24

Jérôme – wow got the accents -thanks everyone for that – you can afford to be a capitalist ‘cuz you live in France. The only reason you can still have capitalism there is ‘cuz you have, or had, a viable left that restrained the Miltie Friedman economy & society wreckers. America unfortunately doesn’t have that tradition, so we no longer even have capitalism. As someone correctly pointed out in discussion section on Washington Monthly – yesterday? – America is a post-capitalist Corporatist Neo-Feudal Society. It’s what happens when capital is too strong & organized relative to other sectors & too reactionary.
It’s probably confusing reading about America from another country, but the battle here isn’t about values in the traditional sense that you keep reading about. Capital, is obviously important, but only as one concern among many others in creating a viable society. Problem is in America CAPITAL is NOW THE ONLY VALUE FOR ELITES OF BOTH PARTIES.
Jérôme, if you still think this is so great, please consider it’s effect in any area closest to your heart, medicine. America’s finest journalists, the only ones who have won 2 Putlitzer Prizes & 2 Big Magazine Awards of Highest Distinction have just completed a book on what happens when capital takes it over.
‘Critical Condition: How Health Care in America Became Big Business & Bad Medicine’ by Don Barlett & James Steele
In short, while the ec. systems in France & America may both be called “capitalism”, in reality we’re comparing zebras & dinosaurs.

Posted by: jj | Dec 12 2004 1:04 utc | 25

jj, are you a member of the Green party? If not, I think you would find a home with us. Corporate governance is a big issue with the Greens.

Posted by: Stoy | Dec 12 2004 5:02 utc | 26

Ok, so the problem is over-broad application of constitutional rights to “moral persons”, which is actually an interesting phrase. The term here is “legal person”, and you need to have that concept in order for a company to own anything or to carry out a contract with someone.
The legal protection given to directors here basically extends (in theory) only to financial liability in the case of a company that fails honestly. It protects my assets from seizure if one of my clients should post a libel to their web-site and my company gets pulled into the lawsuit. It doesn’t protect you from much more than that really.

Posted by: Colman | Dec 13 2004 9:34 utc | 27

What´s true in Ireland, is true in Sweden.
But there was a time (1866-1920) when corporations had more rights than that in Sweden. They actually had the right to vote. In local elections your votes were proportional to the amount of local taxes you paid. So if a corporation paid taxes it got to vote. In many small towns the dominating industry also had the majority of votes. A pre-capitalist Corporatist Feudal Society, if you like.
To end the history lesson I should add that this actually in some cases gave women the right to vote if they had a company and were unmarried (otherwise it was their husbands company). Which was in turn used to promote universal suffrage.
So I am open to the idea that corporations can have rights they shouldn´t have, but it would be great if you gave us some examples of the specific rights that they have and abuse. The way they can outfinance a small community in legal battle seams to me more of a problem with the judicial system in the USA.
For example, are they allowed to have guns?

Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Dec 13 2004 11:47 utc | 28

Companies in this country have had not only guns but private armies – most of whom were really paid thugs – and spy networks in the past. John D. Rockefeller had them, Henry Ford had them (several people were killed by Ford’s “army” during a picnic in 1932) and many other lesser companies had them. I don’t know whether this was legal or not, but the practice occurred during the labor movement from the latter 19th Century until well into the 1930’s. The U.S. army occasionally got into the act on the management side as well, as during the Pullman strike in 1893. Apparently, U.S. workers have not been taught this part of American history.
Mob influence in the labor unions dates from the 1930’s when unions decided they needed to hire muscle to counter the company goons. The mob won those wars but would not politely leave when union leaders asked them to afterward.
Incidentally, John Sayles produced a movie (Matewan) in the mid-1980’s covering this theme. Coal miners in Matewan, W. Va. struck in the 1920’s and the company eventually sent in hired guns to take control. Part history and part art, I found the movie entertaining if depressing.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Dec 13 2004 15:24 utc | 29