teuton
The Angry Arab has a good article here

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 11 2004 9:48 utc | 3

We’d have a much better chance that this 2-bit Stalinst farce would be called correctly if, as Jerome might say, the world would help w/more “facts on the ground” that would wake up impt. sectors of the elites, and the Young would get a movement going on the ground. I fear they’re spending too much time conncecting electronically but in isolation, rather than meeting in groups that could lead to action. But then looking out at million dollar houses isn’t exactly fuel for idealism.
It’s eerie. Other than the net-chatter, the silence is deafening.
They just threw out tens of thousands of provisional ballots in Fla. from black precincts.
Personallly, I can’t even read the paper, or even the web anymore w/it’s idiotic “post-mortems” -why B- won, how the “left” has to get religion…..just saw some really distressing bit of garbage highlighted by buzzflash saying how we had to “be more accepting of “pro-life” positions”, be more moderate on abortion. Written by someone who’ll never get pregnant, of course. Did this jerk miss something? Did anyone ever force someone to get an abortion? What’s to moderate? You’d think the pro-choice position was even controversial. The Majority of People have Always Been Pro-Choice.

Posted by: jj | Nov 11 2004 10:21 utc | 5

😮
Right-wing and alleged US lackey Uribe wanting to work with godless commie Chavez, who he accused of supporting the FARC guerilla last year? How much did the Chinese pay him?

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 11 2004 10:56 utc | 7

NEW YORK Speaking at New York University this week, famed investigative reporter Seymour Hersh called Iraq premier Iyad Allawi a “straw man” and a “criminal”.
“One story the press doesn’t touch is this criminal — this straw man that’s been put in — Allawi, this ridiculous figure that we’ve installed as the prime minister,” Hersh said. “To keep him in power, we’ve exponentially increased the bombing. …
“The bombing of Iraq has gone up extraordinarily, by huge numbers. It’s now a daily occurrence, around-the-clock on some occasions. Some of the carriers but much of it done by the Air Force from Doha. We don’t know where. We don’t know how many. We don’t know, and nobody’s asking and nobody wants to know, how many sorties a day? How much tonnage? We used to get all of these numbers. But we have no idea if they’re dropping X-thousand. We don’t know how much ordinance is being dropped on a country we’re trying to save.”

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 11 2004 16:21 utc | 9

@ jj
I’ve been thinking also about this knee jerk reaction of liberals to somehow re-think or find a way to capitulate on this so called “values” issue, in the wake of the election. Digby over at Hullabaloo has some very interesting things to say in this respect in a piece called “A Very Old Story” 11-07-04 using the work of historian Stephen Starr. Essentially, he saying that this clash of “values” can be seen in old pre- civil war terms, that it is basically an American “tribal” problem that has it’s anticedents in the behavior of the South in the run up to the civil war.
In spite of the fact that the South had almost unbroken control of the federal government from 1789 until secession, most of the mental energies of the South were devoted to elaborating justifications of slavery (to perhaps appease it’s own feelings of guilt) to the exclusion of every other cultural activity, the most important being the neglect of their educational institutions. Because, in the South politicians are manifest through birthright (and therefor personal) they had an almost hysterical response to Northern criticism of the slavery policy that drove them into” bombast, demagogery, incompetence, a childlike refusal to come to grips with realities, and a habitual substitution of slogans, symbols and bogeyman for facts”. The overriding jist, then as now, is that the South was so obsessed with the North impossing its values on them that it drove them into a self imposed exceptionalism and absolutism that eventulally culminated in The Civil War.
If one makes the simple exchange of slavery for religion as the pre-emminate issue today, the parallels are compelling — especially if one considers that it is after all, The Southern Baptist Convention that makes up the spearhead of the new religious rights’ theocratic political agenda. Paul Weyrich, head of the SBC, (co?) founder of The Heritage Foundation, and the Free Congress Foundation has laid out an extensive program and methodology for the deconstruction of liberal institutions that is Machiavellian to the number.
I’m not sure what all this means, but one thing is quite clear — these people, this mentality is absolutist — it will not be satisfied with rational compromise, and any and all attempts to co-opt the issue from them will invariably be seen as weakness. No, something else is needed.

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 11 2004 18:51 utc | 11

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2004_11/005108.ph
Pre Civil War political map, looks familiar

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 11 2004 19:22 utc | 13

finally, the iraquis are learning as the vietnamese did before them – that for all the firepower the armies of america are not invulnerable. that they can be destroyed & that they can be fought & there can be a victory against them
this reminds me of the only armies that really fought in any real sense the invading armies of germany – those of the soviet union. in the first instance they were frightened – genuinely frightened. this army had already devoured half of europe & they were practically, strategically & tactically in awe of this force
but when their first battles – battles the russian did not win militarily – they began to understand practically – that this army could be fought & a victory could be won against it & it was not so long after that they began their first victories. then victory after victory followed – with only a few pockets of fanatic nazis able to resist the force of the russian people
in iraq today – they are finding a similar truth. this massacring army. this army that happily hands out collective punishment to the iraquis. this army that murders its way north & south, east & west with the help of blairs batallions. this army that drops tonne & tonnes & tonnes of bombs on iraq cannot win. will not win
the armies of resistance do not need either zaqarwi or ben laden – they need their own experience – the experience of a rich & cultured people fighting against the barbaric battallions of the ‘coalition’ forces – which are american by any name
the iraquis are learning a lesson that in the battle of the flea – the larger force can be defeated. & it will be defeated. & i see a humiliating defeat for the americans. if not today, tommorrow & if not tommorrow then next day & certainly that day will come & it will mark the end of the beginning of the end of that empire because that empire like all others will fall
the decline & fall of the american empire is as certain to me today as was the victory of the tet offensive would be translated sooner or later into a real defeat of the invading american armies
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 11 2004 21:15 utc | 15

Published on Thursday, November 11, 2004 by the San Francisco Chronicle
Echoes of Afghanistan in the Streets of Fallujah
by Colin Freeman
 
KABUL, Afghanistan – The last time I visited Fallujah was in May this year, days after a “truce” between U.S. Marines and rebel insurgents led to a brief lull in fighting. Three weeks of shock-and-awe warfare had lowered the city’s horizon by several feet, but among the fighters in the ruined buildings, morale was high.
On the walls of the soccer stadium that had become a makeshift guerrilla graveyard, gleeful posters showed the Statue of Liberty being toppled — a mockery of the way Saddam Hussein’s was on April 9 the year before.
Yet as U.S. troops engage in their second crack at Fallujah this week, other, more ominous historical comparisons might be considered — not, this time, with Baghdad in April 2003, but Afghanistan in April 1987.
It was then, in a set of caves at Jaji near the Pakistani border, that a small band of 50 Arab fighters held out for a week against a bombardment by more than 200 Russian Spetsnaz special forces. For the Arabs, among them a young and then unknown fighter named Osama bin Laden, it was a turning point in the war against Soviet occupation: the first time their outgunned, outnumbered militia had held a superpower in its tracks.
Accounts of the standoff, detailed in the Arab press, attracted floods of new foreign recruits to the cause, and when the Soviets finally left Afghanistan two years later, Bin Laden and his men felt invincible. For the “Afghan Arabs,” as they became known, victory against the Soviets was just the first step torward their dream of a Muslim world free from outside interference. Having defeated the godless Communists — whom they saw as the tougher and nastier of the two superpowers — they then set their sights on the United States, too.
Nearly all of the key al Qaeda affiliates now battling in Iraq are part of this Afghan old-boys club. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, for example, the alleged beheader of Nick Berg and other U.S. citizens, spent time there in 1989. Yet for most of the previous decade and a half, their only real successes have been by terrorism, conventional and otherwise: car bombing U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, boat bombing the destroyer Cole in Yemen, and plane bombing the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on Sept. 11, 2001. As the walkover U.S. invasion of Iraq seemed to prove, beating the Americans in a straightforward military scenario seemed virtually impossible.
The first siege of Fallujah this April, however, changed all that. Just like the invasion battles a year before, the Marines were again infinitely better equipped than the opposition. This time, though, the venue was not open desert battlefield, but a Stalingrad-style maze of blind corners and booby- trapped alleys. Their foes were not Hussein’s demoralized armies, but highly motivated jihadis, far happier at the prospect of dying than they were. The Marines could have taken the city, sure, but the political risks, prompted by concerns of heavy civilian and U.S. casualties, prevented the full assault from going forward.
Yet unlike the battle of Jaji with the Soviets, this was more than just a shoot-out at a bunch of caves. The U.S. occupation, which has prided itself on no “no-go” zones, suddenly found itself with an entire guerrilla free-state near its heart.
The Marines who fought at Fallujah last April said it was a remarkable bonding experience — even though they did not get to complete their mission.
For the 2,000-odd guerrillas on the other side, it has been more so. The old-boy network from Afghanistan had tasted glory together again. Then, and again this week, young locals, who at first may just have been defending their turf, have shared food, danger and cause with extremists from other parts of the Muslim world. In Islamic militant circles for the next 10 years or so, the line “I was in Fallujah in 2004” is likely to be a common ice-breaker. What’s more, their stories are not being whispered third-hand from the remote mountains of Afghanistan, but beamed by live satellite TV into millions of Middle East households.
What the final chapter will be is hard to say: Some of the Fallujah veterans will opt for martyrdom; others already have left to fight another day. But one thing seems likely: Even if the United States completely defeats the opposition this time, Fallujah’s symbolic value for future insurgent movements may live on for some time to come.
Colin Freeman is a freelance correspondent for The Chronicle Foreign Service

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 11 2004 21:30 utc | 17

It’s Memorial Day. A time to remember our fallen.
…
Once in khaki suits
Gee we looked swell
Full of that yankee doodle dee dum.
Half a million boots went sloggin’ through hell
And I was the kid with the drum!
Say don’t you remember?
They called me Al.
It was Al all the time.
Why don’t you remember?
I’m your pal.
Say buddy, can you spare a dime?
(“Brother, Can You Spare a Dime,” 1932)

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 12 2004 1:09 utc | 19

@Anna Missed – great stuff. I hadn’t realized how jiggered things were toward the South. Books need to come out now. That needs to be changed. It obviously has to be jiggered now to where the educated are -Northeast & West Coast. South is just a hideously corrupt Fla., which shouldn’t be allowed to vote in national elections til it’s cleaned up, and lots of states that are combo of Military & 200 yrs. of reverse evolution at work.
As for scapegoating – that’s the big diff. bet. Repugs strategy & xDems. Dem. party built on delivering for people a just society that delivers economically. Now they’ver joined Kleptocrats in screwing 99% of us economically….I won’t get into changes in “neoliberal economics” here… Prob. is this creates rage among the screwed. Repugs provide outlet – mis-directing their rage onto the powerless – women & gays – while Soros party screws them, w/no outlet for their rage. So, now “Dems” saying – Fuck it, let’s be moderate…we’ll toss women overboard…not gays, ‘cuz some of them are men.
Katrina vanden Heuvel, ed. of the Nation, is only one I’ve seen since election, to at least have the courage to say -Neoliberalism has been a disaster & must be tossed. Obviously that is the issue.

Posted by: jj | Nov 12 2004 1:44 utc | 21

(Sigh) I fear I’m gonna get heavy again here. First, I’d like those of us from fairly privileged, sheltered backgrounds to think of all the “Evil Nazis” war films we’ve seen and all the bad adventure/fantasy/sci-fi movies we’ve seen about the Evil Castle of Baron Dread, and what not. Gollum being tortured in Mordor. Thulsa Doom. Darth Vader. Got the Gestalt in mind? now read on.

A few days ago, I wrote of a soldier who had ordered an ill Iraqi detainee, Nagem Hatab, dragged by his neck out of his cell — the detainee, who was also beaten up, died when his neck broke. Medical evidence, however, was not introduced in the trial because we lost parts of this man’s body. Yes, we lost parts of his body after killing him by breaking his neck by dragging him by the neck when he was too ill to stand up. Let me write that again: we lost parts of this man’s body after killing him by breaking his neck by dragging him by the neck when he was too ill to stand up:
On Monday, Paulus testified that he ordered a lance corporal to drag Hatab by the neck because it was the only area that wasn’t covered with feces. But under questioning from the military judge, Col. Robert Chester, Paulus acknowledged that Hatab’s arms were clean. He said he didn’t think to order his men to drag the inmate by his arms.
Here’s what happened to Nagem Hatab’s body parts:
The Army pathologist who autopsied the Iraqi, Nagem Hatab, found his larynx in her freezer at an Army base in Germany. An unmarked rib cage that may be Hatab’s was found at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Washington, D.C.
…
Hatab’s organs, which were removed during the autopsy, were destroyed when they were left for hours in the blazing heat on an Iraqi airstrip. A summary of an interrogation the Marines conducted with Hatab shortly before his death at the camp also is missing, as is a photo of Hatab taken during questioning.
Then, we acquitted the man who ordered this of the most serious charge so his punishment is … nothing. He will be dismissed from the service. That’s all. That’s it…

Hatab was accused of selling a US rifle that had allegedly been taken from the body of an ambushed US troop. Hatab was quite ill. Hatab had diarrhoeia. He lay in his own liquid shit at the mercy of our troops. Hatab was dragged by his neck brutally enough to kill him — because someone didn’t want to get their hands dirty? Hatab was stripped naked and left outside for seven hours, before he was found dead. Hatab’s body was then chopped up for heaven knows what reason, partially dismembered, and the parts left lying about with no particular record keeping. Most records of Hatab’s detention and treatment have been conveniently lost. The man who ordered him dragged by the neck has been dismissed without any penalty or criminal charges.
Why do I feel that I should be reading this story in Shirer’s Delivered from Evil?
Is it any wonder that Riverbend wrote earlier this week, that many Iraqis would rather die fighting than fall into the hands of the Americans?
[quoted material is from UnderTheSameSun, today’s date]

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 12 2004 2:32 utc | 23

Apropos of preceding post consider this from “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man” we mentioned in recent days w/link to author John Perkins interview on Democracy Now:
“Chapter 15: The Saudi Arabia Money-laundering Affair
……..
Saudi Arabia’s history if full of violence & religious fanaticism. In the 18th cen., Mohammed ibn Saud, a local warlord, joined forces w/fundamentalists from the ultraconservative Wahhabi sect. It was a powerful union, and during the next 200 yrs. the Saud family and their Wahhabi allies conquered most of the Arabian Peninsula, including Islam’s holiest sites, Mecca and Medina.”
A powerful warlord joined forces w/Fundies ……..SOUND FAMILIAR TO ANYONE…….Our Little Republic Now Following Example of Saudi Arabia????????
This great/must read book avail. @Powellsbooks.com. Let’s see if we can send it to top of NYT Bestseller’s List!!!

Posted by: jj | Nov 12 2004 7:00 utc | 25

Groundhog Day

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 12 2004 10:14 utc | 27

Is there less here than meets the eye
with regard to

a Kurdish state airline? Could it be that the partioning of Iraq is farther along than we have
been told? More to the point, what’s in it for the Turks?

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 12 2004 11:10 utc | 29

Makes a lot of sense Uncle $cam
With our new abilities to put on a big production, witch burning could be the next reality show.
There is nothing new under the sun.

Posted by: Dan of Steele | Nov 12 2004 11:25 utc | 31

Mozilla
We chatted about this on another thread. I’ve just lost all my bookmarks……….. tried to send an email to Mozilla and up pops Outlook Express as my default email……… when it was already configured for Yahoo web based mail.
Microsoft getting dirty?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 12 2004 13:08 utc | 33

$cam
Here’s the first response from Mozilla.
Your mail to ‘webmaster’ with the subject
Help
Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
The reason it is being held:
Message may contain administrivia
Either the message will get posted to the list, or you will receive
notification of the moderator’s decision.
———-
WTF is “administrivia”?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 12 2004 16:26 utc | 35

@b
google search — thank you thank you thank you…

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 13 2004 23:45 utc | 37