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November 23, 2004
Open Thread
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Another top Sunni opponent of elections assassinated in Iraq
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 23 2004 9:17 utc | 1
Economic Storm Warning
Stephen Roach, the chief economist at investment banking giant Morgan Stanley, has a public reputation for being bearish.
But you should hear what he’s saying in private.
Roach met select groups of fund managers downtown last week, including a group at Fidelity.
His prediction: America has no better than a 10 percent chance of avoiding economic “armageddon.”
Press were not allowed into the meetings. But the Herald has obtained a copy of Roach’s presentation. A stunned source who was at one meeting said, “it struck me how extreme he was – much more, it seemed to me, than in public.”
Roach sees a 30 percent chance of a slump soon and a 60 percent chance that “we’ll muddle through for a while and delay the eventual armageddon.”
The chance we’ll get through OK: one in 10. Maybe.
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 23 2004 12:47 utc | 2
b – Have you done any recent changes to the layout of the site recently? (the only one I can see is the addition of the Google search bar) The reason I ask is that I cannot get access to the site anymore on my PDA – I get a message saying that the “page contains errors”. This has been like this for the past week or so…
Thanks for any input…
Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 23 2004 12:55 utc | 3
Assholes in America
A right-wing Republican group launched a television campaign calling for the United Nations (news – web sites) to be kicked out of the United States, alleging the world body is a “safe harbor” for terrorism.
California-based Move America Forward wants the world body’s New York headquarters shut down and its officials expelled from the country because it failed to support the US-led war on Iraq (news – web sites).
“The UN has become an apologist and defender of terrorist organizations and their agents,” claims a 60-second commercial, which also cites the oil for food scandal involving alleged fraud in Iraqi oil sales.
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 23 2004 12:57 utc | 4
@Jérôme – added a sitemeter counter which is in Javascript. Can you try to enable JS on your device? If that doesn´t work let me know and I will take it down.
Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 23 2004 13:02 utc | 5
Call to reduce troops in Iraq (could that be because Iran or Syria are on the total war future Bush buffet?)
the view that it would be dangerous for the United States to pull out soon and that it may even need more troops is becoming another casualty in this war – a war that has taken the lives of more than 1,200 Americans and shows little sign of abating.
The best strategy is to substantially reduce the number of American forces after the Iraqi elections, according to the specialists, who say maintaining the large occupation could be as dangerous to long-term American interests as a precipitous pullout.
“I have seen a metamorphosis,” said Robert Pfaltzgraff, president of the Institute for Foreign Policy Analysis in Cambridge and a vocal supporter of Bush’s Iraq policy, referring to debate both inside and outside the halls of government. “We should not be there with a large force. We should be there with a force that begins to quickly diminish.”
Few specialists are calling for a complete pullout. They say the United States must first finish training Iraqi forces and use its military might to buy Iraqi authorities breathing space against the insurgency.
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 23 2004 13:21 utc | 6
b – yep, that’s it, java script is not supported by my phone.
I will use an “atomic bomb” kind of an argument to try to convince you to change your meter: I actually spend quite a bit of time these days browsing on my phone every evening as I stay with my kids in their room to get them to sleep – and of course MoA is my favorite site!
Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 23 2004 13:47 utc | 7
fauxreal – did you get my reply to your e-mail of a few days ago? I am not sure it was sent out properly and I did not get a reply from you (not that it was really needed, but just checking)
Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 23 2004 13:49 utc | 8
Subject: Illegal immigrants in Canada
Wednesday, November 17, 2004
The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal immigration.
The re-election of President Bush is prompting the exodus among left leaning citizens who fear they’ll soon be required to hunt, pray and agree with Bill O’Reilly.
Canadian border farmers say it’s not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, animal rights activists and Unitarians crossing their fields at night.
“I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn,” said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry.
“He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn’t have any, he left. Didn’t even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?”
In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields.
“Not real effective,” he said. “The liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they wouldn’t give milk.”
Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them across the border and leave them to fend for themselves.
“A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged conditions,” an Ontario border patrolman said. “I found one carload without a drop of drinking water. They did have a nice little Napa Valley Cabernet, though.”
When liberals are caught, they’re sent back across the border, often wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have been circulating about the Bush administration establishing re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to drink domestic beer, learn how to shoot a handgun and watch NASCAR.
In the days since the election, liberals have turned to sometimes ingenious ways of crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen passengers. Many others were caught wearing Birkenstock sandals with young appearing feet in them –– a dead giveaway.
“If they can’t identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get suspicious about their age,” an official said.
Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies.
“I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can’t support them,” an Ottawa resident said. “How many art-history majors does one country need?”
In an effort to ease tensions between the United States and Canada, Vice President Dick Cheney met with the Canadian ambassador and pledged that the administration would take steps to reassure liberals, a source close to Cheney said.
“We’re going to have some Peter, Paul & Mary concerts. And we might put some endangered species on postage stamps. The president is determined to reach out.”
Posted by: Juannie | Nov 23 2004 14:14 utc | 9
I’m wondering what “collective wisdom” has to say about this article from Dar Al Hayat. It seems a bit
“disjointed” and would seem to have a low overall credibility quotient, but others may have some illuminating comment to offer. At least it has the advantage of not being an obvious “stop” in the mighty wurlitzer (or is it?).
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 23 2004 14:18 utc | 10
@Hannah – is Israel playing an active role in Irak? Definitly. Do they have actice soldiers there? I doubt it.
@ b
I tend to agree on the “active role”, but wonder
how it can be effectively active without a physical
presence. Exactly what part of the panoply of security
organs and covert military teams are actively fomenting
chaos is not given to outsiders to know. In passing, what a pity that “foment”, a word once greatly favored by rightists and which saw its use apogee in the days of Foster Dulles, has apparently been retired just now when
it is of daily pertinence.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 23 2004 15:33 utc | 14
There are a couple of interesting posts at
Hack’s SFTT site.
The Power Point presentation will probably offend some
readers, but it seems to be the best that the hawks
have to offer in the way of justification for the Fallujah campaign. I find the maps illuminating: the
whole city seems to be “pointed” with resistance installations, making the pretense of “a small anti-government minority”
prima facie untenable. Hack’s letter on
Rumsfeld and Bush’s faked signatures is the kind of thing that undoubtedly infuriates grieving parents.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 23 2004 16:11 utc | 16
@Hannah – Israel will not have active soldiers in Iraq, but Mossad is not a military service and they were said to be active already short after the invasion.
b
there is absolutely strong circumstantial evidence of mossad involvement on a number of levels. they were certainly involved in interrogations & deaths of prisoners – there was a constant reference by american soldiers to a ‘third force’ which can only have been the isrraelis
the systematic executions of iraq’s intelligentsia & professionals(doctorys, lawyers & teachers) though american organised as was the phoenix programme & its transmutations but i would imagine the hand on work was being done by israelis. the israelis have made an art of its version of the phoenix programme in executing thousands of palestinian intellectuals/professionals/teachers/community leaders
that there would be members from tshal on the ground would not totally surprise me for any number of reason – but at least one their past expertise & their ability to speak arabic would be needed in a counter insurgency operations
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 23 2004 17:25 utc | 18
Jerome- yes, thank you. I received your email. Sorry I didn’t reply. I’ve been looking around on the web for more information.
Juannie- LOL. I need to laugh these days, and your post was the first good laugh I’ve had in a while. Most of the time I just feel incredibly irritable or defeated.
My best friend is a gravel-voiced blues musician who used to play for tips on the streets in NYC. He’s always supplemented his income by hustling a little pool, teaching some music, and for a few years now he’s been working with kids with severe retardation.
I’m thinking he may be in a better position than lots of people I know if he wants to bolt the U.S. because his field would be considered “health care,” or maybe “social services.”
He just got his passport renewed too.
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 23 2004 19:04 utc | 19
b,
On a less frivolous note than my escape to Canada post:
You mentioned in a past thread that you were reading “Crossing the Rubicon” by Michael Ruppert. I have read most of it; it can easily be read piecemeal. Ruppert has presented a compelling case for bringing Cheney and others to trial for murder in connection with their involvement in 911. His case is based on “on the record” quotes and official documents, as opposed to expert witness susceptible scientific evidence. All pretty much immune to expert witnesses, unless, of course they get into the debate over the meaning of “is” (In the spirit of Alfred Korzybski, I just try to avoid or be very selective about using the verb to be).
My sense is that an effective approach to protecting our collective selves from the manifestation of the Bush/Cheney/Neo-con worldview is to expose and then prosecute the criminals at every level of the administration, wherever and however we can. I can help this effort by selectively placing the evidence in the hands of individuals who I think might objectively evaluate it and then act in furthering this effort.
I believe “Crossing the Rubicon” and “The New Pearl Harbor” to be powerfully credible starting points to further our knowledge toward the realization of this objective.
So I guess that’s my attempt at a contribution for now.
Posted by: Juannie | Nov 23 2004 19:12 utc | 20
fauxreal,
Pool and guitar are my passions. Guitar more so these days.
I’m a Canadian by birth but hold US citizenship. My daughter is 19 and I’m worried about her and the draft (among a plethora of other serious concerns) and we have discussed moving back to Canada. She is in a year long program of young females discovering their social-nature connections and doesn’t want to leave here at this time and I believe I can do my small part in furthering the evolution of our species toward maturity, far more effectively from within the empire than without. So we’re staying here and putting our genes on the line for now (I still reserve the right to run like hell when I evaluate that as the best option.)
I really don’t think where we are is going to be a deciding factor. It is more how well we are connected to the local economy (land, people, infrastructure, small business, willingness to forgo the “american Dream”, etc.) I want to get all my friends to collectively buy a piece of property that we could homestead and survive on if we had to. I don’t believe it’s going to go that far soon but the closer we individually are to that survival economy the better will be our position when the shit really hits the fan.
Primary productivity (as of today’s technology) depends almost entirely on solar input to our planet. We have just been living on the hundreds of millions of years of stored solar energy for the past century or so. I can live with what the sun supplies me on several acres. Doesn’t leave much for the other 4 billion who have been suckered into the oil man’s survival package.
Sorry if after my humor brought you up my angst brings you back down.
Posted by: Juannie | Nov 23 2004 19:39 utc | 21
Juannie- I’ve thought about what you said too…about the connection to the local, to resources with fewer layers of mediation…and in terms of being in the U.S., I absolutely agree.
but I also have a lot of recently unrequited wanderlust that I’m putting on hold for a bit more…then, we’ll see.
My favorite thing right now is cornichons…those tiny dill pickles in vinegar. I’m making my Thanksgiving dinner as I type because my kids are going to be with their dad and I’m going to be working while school is on vacation. Waiting for them to get home.
Thanksgiving is the one time of the year I indulge my passion for cornichons, because they’re imports.
come to think of it, I should stock up on them and sell them on the black market after the dollar collapses.. :/
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 23 2004 20:06 utc | 22
allumez la mèche, noble irakiens
lavez notre honte dans le sang
nous ne sommes pas des esclaves
pour charger notre cou de colliers
nous ne sommes pas des prisonniers
pour nous soumettre aux menottes
nous ne sommes pas des femmes
dont les seules armes sont les larmes
nous ne sommes pas des orphelins
qui chercheraient un mandat pour l’irak
et si nous courbons l’échine sous l’oppression
jamais nous ne renoncerons aux plaisirs du tigre
muhammad al-obeidi
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 23 2004 22:05 utc | 23
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 24 2004 3:08 utc | 25
Here’s hoping that when Lupin settles in France his wife will set up a dating service for Am. in search of a homeland!!
Posted by: jj | Nov 24 2004 5:22 utc | 26
On 2nd thght. Maybe Juannie or RossK want to set up same in Canada. Spouses, jobs…..the usual…..
Posted by: jj | Nov 24 2004 5:24 utc | 27
Impeachment of Blair
Doomed to failure. But at least 23 MP’s are willing to try to do something.
BTW – how many US politicians are actively trying to impeach Bush?
Posted by: DM | Nov 24 2004 5:38 utc | 28
jj-
while it’s totally bizarre to realize I’ve actually thought about this, I do know three guys in other countries (who I’ve known for decades) whom I would not hesitate to call upon should things degrade to the level of attempts to get out of this country like those experienced by people like Walter Benjamin, for example.
I’d rather hope they could provide decent references for a job, instead, since I’m not a good liar and if I had to pretend I knew which side of the bed any of them preferred I’d probably burst out laughing.
Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 24 2004 5:48 utc | 29
The menace of a law suit against Cole may very well be a good sign: it would seem to indicate that the folks at MEMRI realize they have lost the credence of their target elite audience. Moreover, it gives an excellent opportunity to clarify MEMRI’s funding, which I suspect will indeed prove to be “sanitized”: no government subsidy is necessary when there are so many other willing benefactors. Nevertheless, it is difficult to see how an organization ostenstibly promoting transparency can refuse to come clean on its funding, and interesting linkages may emerge. Nevertheless, I venture to guess that we won’t find any members of the House of Saud on MEMRI’s list of donors.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 24 2004 5:52 utc | 30
Saw this an at least 3 sites. Well, it is good for a little smile. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we would live in world were this were the only problems we have. So enjoy and smile while it is still possible.
Are You Kidding Me?
picture
Posted by: Fran | Nov 24 2004 6:33 utc | 31
here is a post from me, as usual,i only post while drunk. (in vino veritas)as a fellow bibliophile and blues guitar player, i must also claim certain leanings to truth and(good post,jaunnie,maybe someday hear ya)
decency(sic?)woody guthrie sang truths of the people that stood up
against big business keeping the populace as serfs.
“Storming Heaven” is a factual account of 10,000 miners and their families standing against the might of Pershing,Eisenhower,and Patton as recent West point grads(not Pershing as a grad, he was, but not a recent one)
During the same time that WW1 vets and their families that were camped out on the Washington Mall,
pleading for the money that was promised to them by the govmt,and were subseqently gunned down in cold blood by machine guns, the U.S. govmnt was racing to consolidate it’s hold on coal in appalachia . Coal company goons were assasinating landholders that had nothing to do with coal, they were simply farmers. It was a naked land grab by the companies.
The local populace rose up to the tune of 10,000 people. The uprising was spread from coal counties in northern kentucky,to west virginia, and federal troops were used against american citizens in favor of big business.
this was in the year 1921,iirc.
my point is that the american dream was lost shortly after its inception. just as the christian dream was lost and subverted within 100 years of its start.
Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 24 2004 6:42 utc | 32
fran,gotta love that dwarf love!gotta send it to my sisters,
MAJOR CHORTLE! thanks,possum.
Posted by: possum | Nov 24 2004 7:42 utc | 34
just wanted to say i’m so very happy that this site seems to be building again.not standing in wait of the latest tidbit of election info,it seems we are once again using our time to debate issues,argue ideas and so on.have nothing to add except thank you.my inability to think deeply so to speak since my aneurism isolated me from what i love best,intelligent debate.vouyerism(?) at its best.is there a Y in aneurism?
Posted by: onzaga | Nov 24 2004 8:04 utc | 35
To Onzaga…
as to a “y” in an anuerism, i think it is not there.
as to a ‘why” in vouyerism,
that is for you to declare!
heeeehheee!
Posted by: possum | Nov 24 2004 8:21 utc | 36
And Country Music, the red state folk music, will drift away those soperific memories of Matewan, like a fearsome good hangover.
Posted by: anna missed | Nov 24 2004 9:08 utc | 39
HKOL
Very interesting development on the law suit against Cole by MEMRI.
Intellectuals are being asassinated in Iraq……………
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 24 2004 10:33 utc | 40
New Spy Investigation Suppressed at Crucial Juncture
Back at the end of August, the lid blew off the latest Israeli spy scandal, this one involving spies inside the very Pentagon office from which had emerged the since-discredited claims of Iraqi WMDs that led to war. Moreover, the spy scandal involved AIPAC and by extension every politician who had ever accepted money from AIPAC’s members. Then, all of a sudden, the scandal just “went away”; a chilling reminder of just how powerful Israeli spies in America have become.
Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 24 2004 12:09 utc | 41
@ Cloned
Do we have any sort of list of assassinated
intellectuals? I don’t doubt that it is happening,
but full documentation would be useful in a future
war crimes trial. Presumably some killings will be
passed off as “random violence”, I’d like to see the
complete details of a “phoenix”-like program list, precisely to ward off minimizing explanations. One, two, even ten cases might be “random violence” but if
it is in the 10’s or 100’s with similar modus operandi
the argument for deliberate war crimes would be difficult to dismiss. With luck we may even get some
disaffected participants to start telling the truth.
Of course, the pessimist thinks that the program may just be extended to eliminate undesirable voices and minds outside of Iraq as well.
Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 24 2004 12:34 utc | 42
Good Book just out in America on Matewan.
Read half of it this summer.
I can’t remember the name. Maybe someone else has read it and can come up with the name.
Posted by: FlashHarry | Nov 24 2004 13:50 utc | 44
And Country Music, the red state folk music, will drift away those soperific memories of Matewan, like a fearsome good hangover.
Well, there is country music and there is corporate country music, the latter resembling country music in the same way that Anna Nicole resembles women. Since 11 corporations now own 78% of all US radio stations (while corporate funded NPR has many of the rest), the country music most people get is what the corporate suits want them to hear. Lots of Toby Keith and Darryl Worley, no Dale Watson or Billy Joe Shaver (could name many others). All hat and no cattle, just boot skootin’ to the bank. Even Merle thinks the Iraq war is bullshit, but he is too big an icon to ban completely. There are plenty of country artists doing the real stuff who know the average person is being lied to and screwed, but their music can’t find it’s way onto most stations. Money and marketing rules the airways now, not music. Sadly, people don’t realize that they are being manipulated or how much genuine music they are really missing – or that their radio markets aren’t really free. Working in public radio and having a regular show (hillbilly, shit kickin’ stuff, mostly), I could rave on and on, but will grab a beer and throw some honky-tonk on the stereo instead.
Posted by: lonesomeG | Nov 24 2004 16:30 utc | 45
Adu Aardvark writes a brilliant letter to MEMRI re the Juan Cole issue.
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 24 2004 17:27 utc | 46
Food for thoughts:
Putin: Russia reject US vote results
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 24 2004 18:44 utc | 47
CJ
The Kremlin described the meeting as “unprecedented interference” in another country’s affairs.
Powell warned “there will be consequences” for the United States’ relationship with Ukraine as a result of the developments in the former Soviet bloc nation.
Let the battle for the Caucus begin?
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 24 2004 19:44 utc | 48
Lonesome G
You’re distinction is adept, as there are voices in Country Music that do pay tribute to both the current and historical political milieu. And the recent Dixie Chicks flap would be a good a case in point with regards especially to corporate cultural engeneering. I was simply, if not flippantly, trying to draw a distinction between the community and collectively oriented values of folk music as compaired to the more- self- oriented values of Country music.
Posted by: anna missed | Nov 24 2004 20:09 utc | 49
Bodies left in city’s streets intimidate police, populace
Witnesses say US forces killed unarmed civilians
Kurdish fighters killed in northern Iraq
Frayed Nerves on Baghdad Streets Leading to `Friendly-Fire’ Incidents
The burden of the wounded
Falluja not the end of the war
Juannie and anyone else thinking about an intentional, self-sustaing community; I promise, tonight I am going to start a thread on LeSpeakeasy. In the next few days anyone who is interested please come by and contribute. I was talked about this very idea with another community member a few days after the election.
Posted by: Stoy | Nov 24 2004 22:23 utc | 51