Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 10, 2004
New AG: “Law is difficult”

Can you trust an Attorney General with major challenges if he says it is difficult to predict with confidence what actions might be deemed to constitute violations of law?

Official: Gonzales is likely Ashcroft replacement

President Bush favors White House counsel Alberto Gonzales to replace Attorney General John Ashcroft, because he is "very close to the president and someone he knows can be trusted with major challenges," a senior administration official said Wednesday.

Memos Reveal War Crimes Warnings

[Gonzales] strongly urges Bush to stick to his decision to exempt the treatment of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters from the provisons of the Geneva Conventions.

One reason to do so, Gonzales wrote, is that it "substantially reduces the threat of domestic criminal prosecution under the War Crimes Act."  He added that "it is difficult to predict with confidence what actions might be deemed to constitute violations" of the War Crimes Act just as it was "difficult to predict the needs and circumstances that could arise in the course of the war on terrorism."

Other cabinet candidates:

  • State Department: Zell Miller
  • Department of Defense: Jim Woolsey
  • National Security Adviser: John Bolton or Paul Wolfowitz

The War Cabinet

Comments

Oh crap, they have to be kidding. It would be even worse than the current bunch of corrupt incompetent traitors.
Zell “Hors Wesel Lied” Miller? The guy who mistook the Republican Convention for a Munich Biergarten? Let’s get, real, Powell was respected abroad; with Miller in charge, it’ll be a miracle if the 2nd mandate ends before the rest of the world unites to declare war on the US.
Jim Woolsey? Former CIA head – meaning he should logically take part of the blame for 9/11 since Bushco wants to put the blame on them – who fantasises about World War IV?
John Bolton or Wolfie? Does it mean Rice is going out? If so, the 2 prominent black officials go away. Looks like Bush has determined that the Blacks will never vote GOP and tries to go after the Latino vote. But still, Bolton is an incompetent ignorant nutjob of first magnitude, a guy who would start a war on N Korea if the decision depended only on him. And Wolfie, well, Bob Woodward already told what we need to know about him (10-50% that Saddam is behind 9/11 and wanted to attack it first since 9/12).
I’m just surprised there’s no good place for Douglas “fucking stupidest guy on Earth” Feith.
If that’s sign of what’s to come, I fully expect abortion to be outlawed under punishment of death before 2008.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 10 2004 20:05 utc | 1

Ledeen’s list is the result of his own feverish, neocon wet dream. I didn’t take it too seriously. But with the news of a possible Gonzales appointment as AG, I now have to wonder if they wouldn’t just go ahead with the others too.
I keep forgetting- with this administration, you have to ask yourself what the most outrageous outcome could be, and that’s the one that usually happens.

Posted by: semper ubi | Nov 10 2004 20:57 utc | 2

I’m just surprised there’s no good place for Douglas “fucking stupidest guy on Earth” Feith.
Thank you, Clueless Joe. That’s the best laugh I’ve had all day.

Posted by: x | Nov 10 2004 21:03 utc | 3

BTW, with regard to the nomination of Gonzales, my first thought is that what has the biggest impact on W is loyalty (or his understanding of it, anyway). Gonzales is obviously an old buddy and a homey for W. A crony, if you wish to use that language — at least he’s obviously put himself and his opinions on the line to serve Bush (eg that infamous memo). I’d put more trust in that as a motive behind the nomination than anything else.

Posted by: x | Nov 10 2004 21:23 utc | 4

Powell was not respected abroad. People pretended to respect him, seeing him as the least hawkish…He lied to practically everyone, and when he went with his speech at the UN everyone sat quiet and thought
well…another duplicitous stooge, a black one moreover, lying through his teeth with a lot of made up stuff that we have to pretend to believe if we don’t want to get nuked ten years down the road..
Excerpt:
While we were here in this council chamber debating Resolution 1441 last fall, we know, we know from sources that a missile brigade outside Baghdad was disbursing rocket launchers and warheads containing biological warfare agents to various locations, distributing them to various locations in western Iraq. Most of the launchers and warheads have been hidden in large groves of palm trees and were to be moved every one to four weeks to escape detection.
Large groves of palm trees? Gone now I guess.
Let’s look at one. This one is about a weapons munition facility, a facility that holds ammunition at a place called Taji (ph). This is one of about 65 such facilities in Iraq.
And on, and on…
See link, which also shows the pathetic content-less propaganda slides in full blue (not red..) glory:
Powell Feb 2003 at UN

Posted by: Blackie | Nov 10 2004 21:30 utc | 5

US court halts trial of bin Laden’s driver
Another judicial decision against the bushistas. Great quote form the judge (not in the article I linked to): “The President is not a panel” (the rules stated that a panel had to decide whether the prisoners were PoWs or “enemy combatants” a,d that the Presidnt could not take that decision himself…°

Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 10 2004 21:31 utc | 6

btw – really good text on terrorism over at dKos.

Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 10 2004 21:39 utc | 7

Jerome – the recent court ruling on the trial of Bin Laden’s driver is one that’s been on my mind today. I am especially wondering about its bearing on Gonzales and his stated legal opinions in that infamous memo.

Posted by: x | Nov 10 2004 21:45 utc | 8

What The . . .?
Tanks roll out to greet anti-war demo in LA? WTF? what is this? a couple of frootloops from a nearby army base playing sillybuggers? some SWAT team with waaay to much free time and one too many frappucinos? or are they just trying it on, trying to get us used to the idea of tanks intimidating civilians in our own streets?

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 10 2004 21:52 utc | 9

inauguration “thank-you” gift to W ?
mr. gonzalez must have written a memo about the posse comitatus in his unique style as a small “thank you” to preznit pretzel for the nice post, and if this
is a sign of what will come to the US, americans will soon discover that the guerillas slugging it out with the marines are their real friends.

Posted by: name | Nov 10 2004 21:52 utc | 10

@Jerome, and others who read the Pericles piece at dKos,
Pericles seems to be making the assumption that OBL is really behind all this planning, including the WTC attack. The writer then created a logical scenario in which it all makes sense and in which our Dub and his team are drawn in like fools.
This I don’t believe. For starters OBL has been proven to have little or no involvement with the attacks. Thereafter, the logic crumbles. Much more credible is that the entire war scenario, including the attacks (NYC and Pentagon) were/are orchestrated by the same backers who put da Dub in power, who stole the last four elections, etc.
There is a lot more to this conflict than you can see, or even imagine. The problem is that the rationales for various power moves, such as they are, don’t correspond with our standard of logic.
Wise up.
Granted, the Iraq invasion hasn’t gone according to plan and now resembles quicksand, but this seems not to faze the planners unduly. As we know, they don’t mind killing as many people as necessary; in fact they may enjoy it. We may be looking at a humbling defeat for the plebes and warriors, but somehow I think that the planners/backers expect to come out pink and plump no matter what. And they ain’t doing this for you buddy.

Posted by: rapt | Nov 10 2004 22:35 utc | 11

rapt – maybe; but his points about the extremes on each side being objective allies against the moderates is extremely important, in my view. We are all making a similar point when we say that each Iraqi dead means ten future terrorists against us.
The center (and reason) must hold.

Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 10 2004 23:12 utc | 12

rapt- while I don’t think everything is understood about the WTC attacks, I also don’t think it makes sense to dismiss UBL’s own words about his involvement in the 9-11 attacks.
in addition, no matter who was behind such an attack, the dKos diary does make valid points about the ways in which Bush’s response has played right into UBL’s hands.
The guy who wrote Imperial Hubris said this as well.
UBL needs the US to do horrific things in order to gain credibility. No matter how much the Bush Administration lies to the American people about the reasons for going into Iraq, for instance, it doesn’t matter in the larger picture of what this whole mess is doing in terms of rejection of the U.S. and anyone associated with them.
In addition, UBL said his goal and strategy is the same as the one employed (with U.S. help) against Russia in Afghanistan…which was and is to bog a great power down in an unwinnable war.
This, combined with an increasingly educated FEMALE and male population and a low birth rate and subsequent demand for empowerment, is how the Soviet Empire fell.
The Soviets made the fatal decision to not change course, and to liberalize their political and economic system.
When I see the Bush League now, I see a govt which is weakening the middle class and using them to pay for a war, while the poor pay with the blood of their children. How can such a war be sustainable here?
The only way, of course, is for the war to be on American soil. Therefore, it is in Bush and UBLs interests for attacks on American soil.
They don’t have to be working together to have use for similar actions.

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 11 2004 1:52 utc | 13

@fauxreal
We probably don’t want to go there on MOA, but just one question (as I don’t speak Arabic) – what were OBL’S own words about his involvement in 9-11 ?

Posted by: DM | Nov 11 2004 2:43 utc | 14

deander @4:52 – the tanks in los angeles are a metaphor for what i have been dreading since late august when my neighborhood, two blocks from madison square garden, was occupied by the nypd. while it may sound extreme, i use that term with only a minimal amount of facetiousness. for several days i was required to show identification in order to come within two blocks of my home and various routes of access were blocked entirely. the nypd strutted its stuff 24/7 on my block and surrounding blocks, using police and personal vehicles as air-conditioned sleeping quarters, idling for hours at a time, cavorting on street corners in the safety of dozens joking about barbecues, and donning riot gear to subdue protesters who came armed only with signs, their concerns, and raised voices. the extension cords for the lighting i set up on my roof to illuminate the banner i painted “rnc=police state” mysteriously disappeared. i was threatened with arrest and shoved out of the way when standing on the sidewalk outside of the local deli because i did not move quickly enough. i am certain i would have been arrested had i not produced identification showing i lived around the corner. i refused to enter the protest pens for fear that the undercover scooter police i had witnessed riding into the crowd a few nights previously would make a return or batons would fly. i was terrified, brought to tears, by the “us against them” demonization of the protesters, the extreme polarization of the police against ordinary people. i looked on in horror as squadrons of police in riot gear with shields and helmets rushed into place, bloodthirsty for a confrontation. a group of middle-aged protesters who had made the trip in from the suburbs and i stood aghast watching, but also could not help but laugh at the rows of officers with batons and guns hiding behind police barriers two thick. ready, yes but ready for what? of what were they so frightened? i stopped policemen who appeared to be in positions of authority and begged them to back off and let the protesters through. to explain, the city blocks were split into pens and the one closest to madison square garden had emptied substantially, yet the police still refused to allow anyone from the block behind it to enter. the crowd became more and more agitated, rightfully demanding “let us through”. it felt like kent state was a heartbeat away. finally, a giant in a suit and one of those fbi style earpieces arrived admidst all of the frantic blue uniforms rushing about, and a decision was made to “allow them through”. i have no idea if my interaction made a difference – i stopped him and asked him to let them through as well. he barked no as he strode away, but later when he passed as he was leaving he looked over and said “it’s because of you.” my reason for writing all of this is to point out: 1) how frightening it is to have your everyday freedoms such as standing on a street corner or entering your neighborhood taken away; 2) how very important it is to speak up and not give in to the fear; and 3) more importantly, how quickly and easily this occupation was accomplished. what happened in la with tanks arriving to dispel the exercise of civil rights happened in new york. where next? i am afraid that again it will all happen so quickly that it almost feels natural – if you don’t question, if you give in to it – as natural as election results that don’t make statistical sense. in new york, the nypd took over my neighborhood and operated as if above the law, and in la, tanks arrived at a demonstration. i should add, when new york city hosted the rnc it was a fait accompli delivered to residents, not the result of a public referendum. i could also go on about the loss of income suffered by the local shop owners, the taxi drivers, and the line of busses that idled for over two hours on a densely populated residential block while waiting to pick up conventioners, but i will stop here. my point is that it is happening, quickly, and we seem to have very little choice about it – the rnc, inexcusable lines at polls, porter goss, guantanamo, abu grahib, fallujah 2, what geneva convention?, etc. – unless we do something now to utilize the little bit of power we still have as a citizenry. the question is what do we do? for the moment i have chosen to focus on the election and keep up the pressure to get to the truth. like uncle $cam i come to it already fairly convinced of fraud, but more important is to protect what feels like the last vestige of democracy. if anyone else out there has suggestions for other actions i am all ears. i apolgize for the emotional tone of this post, but the tanks brought it all back.

Posted by: conchita | Nov 11 2004 3:59 utc | 15

@conchita no apology necessary, this is good and important info; I knew the police lockdown during RNC was bad — from indymedia etc — but I had not read 1st person testimony of residents such as you have just offered.
I would bet if you walked into the average college classroom (undergrad) today and asked a class of 40 students “What does ‘Kent State’ mean to you?” you would get at least 30 blank stares. maybe more.
and speaking of amnesia: I just want to check something with others who suffered through some version of the US public school system. When you did high school history — world history, that is, or US history — where did it stop? When I was in US high school (oh what a purgatory of hateful boredom and pointless ugliness) history stopped at the end of WWII. They always said that they had “run out of time”, but in retrospect it strikes me as interesting that both world and US history ended, as far as my high school was concerned, on VE Day, with cheering thousands in the streets. [Our English teacher at least assigned Hershey’s Hiroshima (as literature), though this was considered a bit racy by the administration.]
Korea, Viet Nam, the FSM… none of that was ever discussed in history class. My 7th grade class offered more critical thinking than anything in high school — at least that teacher had a bug in her ear about native americans and broken treaties, so we learned something about how politics works when land grabs are in progress, and had spirited arguments about whether might makes right. Anyway, if anyone else can dimly remember your US or world history class from US high school — where did the time line end?

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 11 2004 4:12 utc | 16

@DM I am aware of owing you info on the Raj, have not forgotten. am trying to remember which of the untidy pile of nonfiction books I read this year I saw the info in, so I can track it down. I have, alas, not a librarian’s or academic’s memory: can remember the gist of the info but not that it was on page 23, paragraph 2 — or even which book it was in, or which author’s tone or style it was written in. it is a fault in software geeks — we became accustomed earlier than most to the idea that all information is always “liquid,” online, available interactively any time — and I think the capacity for memorisation and accurate sourcing of quotations etc. declines with such technology, just as oral recitation declines when literacy appears on the scene.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 11 2004 4:16 utc | 17

DM- the recent video on Al J., which they apparently thought was real, and which is available with subtitles on their site, and which Juan Cole also wrote about, contains a portion in which he talks about when he decided to hit the twin towers…which he claimed was when he was watching the carnage in Lebanon..whether that claim (as to the date) was true or not (and it appears not, according to other information), he was not denying his part in planning 9-11.
If that doesn’t constitute enough evidence that UBL said something about this, then I don’t know what to tell you.
Several years before 9-11, UBL pronounced a jihad, which is not simply information available from the Bush League, because of our support of “apostate” governments, and because of the presence of US bases in Saudi Arabia.
Do you also doubt that he said this?

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 11 2004 4:22 utc | 18

according to someone on DU, the tanks in Los Angeles were driven up as part of a Veteran’s Day commemoration that will take place on Nov. 11. The guys who drove them up did not know where they were going and did come across the demonstration…at least that’s the explanation out now.
fwiw.

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 11 2004 4:26 utc | 19

Yasser Arafat’s death has been officially announced

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 11 2004 4:37 utc | 20

My interpretation of tonight’s news is that the White House lawyer who wrote the main memos that led to torturing of prisoners is going to get a free ride by Senate Democrats and will be the next Attorney General. “He is not a confrontational appointment.”
The USA has slide fast into a Holy War. Muslim expulsion and the Inquisition are not too far ahead. Probably suitable indorsed by the 2006 Congressional elections.

Posted by: Jim S | Nov 11 2004 5:03 utc | 21

i leafed through my son’s us history book earlier in the fall, seeking info on how they would portray election 2000. everything exactly as media had portrayed it, ending with a FULL page of the bush couple amidst thousands of balloons on ‘victory’ night. it was disturbing to see such blatant propaganda in a textbook. the textbook itself is very soporific and one would assume most students fall asleep in class without giving us history another thought. if one really seeks to understand where this country is heading, a simple look at long suffering public schools should provide ample proof of our enormous ignorance, as planned, i suspect. as to hastily going through the subject, at least for older son, part of it is to prepare students for ap tests and a silly reason for a class if you ask me. very little actually learned as there is no time to inspire on important aspects of our history. just learning to fulfill the ap test requirements – sorry to butt in on what are very illuminating discussions.

Posted by: old | Nov 11 2004 5:10 utc | 22

fauxreal, thanks for the tank info. i feel slightly better.
deander, wish i could remember my high school history better, but recall next to nothing about the us, and while i had a fabulous world history teacher, i don’t remember if we got past greek and roman. we did have spirited debates about gun control and civil liberties, but i don’t remember where the time line ended for us history. sorry for you and sorrier for me and my aging grey matter.

Posted by: conchita | Nov 11 2004 5:47 utc | 23

@fauxreal re OBL
No. I don’t doubt the jihad pronouncement. And I am not claiming anything except that I don’t speak Arabic, that there are contentions re the continuity of the 1st video and it’s translation, and that the new video was unexpected, exceptional in style, that it turned up just before the election, and nobody is talking about it anymore. It does however, have the imprimatur of Juan Cole, so I guess irrefutable proof and a reminder of OBL turning up just before the election was just a coincidence after all.

Posted by: DM | Nov 11 2004 6:21 utc | 24

@old
What do you expect when 98% of all our educational textbooks come out of Texass

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 11 2004 6:24 utc | 25

Mea culpa, on the last post, I meant to post this one:
Is the Trend of Trashing Textbooks in Texas Going National?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 11 2004 6:32 utc | 26

@DeAnander re the Raj
The quote or the reference doesn’t really matter. You know though, a lot of bad thinks happen but it isn’t always really down to goodies and baddies, and I think there is some evidence to show that British rule in India wasn’t all rapacious exploitation.

Posted by: DM | Nov 11 2004 6:34 utc | 27

@ faux real, DM, and rapt I am very interested (almost obsessed really) with the question you touch on:
what really happened on 9/11? The official conspiracy theory (Osama’s boys did it in on his orders in the most brilliant military-terroristic operation in recorded history) is widely believed, although, I take it, not
here at the Moon. The more sophisticated version of the official conspiracy theory (hereafter OCT) has it that no other conspiracy theory survives the cutting edge of Ockham’s razor in the sense that
1) rival theories postulate the involvement of large numbers of people or large organizations, all endowed with the improbable iron-discipline necessary to keep the secret.
2) it is much more plausible and frequent that large
organizations act with the incompetence and inertia displayed by the U.S. security establishment on 9/11.
Nevertheless, Ockham’s razor is a two-edged blade, and
even superficial investigation of 9/11 reveals that the OCT is really an Official Coincidence Theory. One
“physical” example is the extreme improbability of
the cell-phone calls from the Pennsylania flight having been successfully completed with 2001 technology, as has, to my mind at least, been rather well established by Kee Dewdney . (www.physics911.org, since the link doesn’t work on all browsers) There are too many other “coincidences”, even taking into account that a posteriori one can always find some improbable correlations in
any data set. A “minimalist” case in this sense is set out by
Justin Raimondo.

The basic and, alas, thus far unverifiable hypothesis is that of the “false flag” operation in which unwitting Islamic “patsies” are maneuvered (or in the minimalist case “closely observed”) by occult puppeteers of some (perhaps more than one) nation’s secret service. This is uncomfortable territory for one who prefers to “keep his feet on the ground”. But is it out of the question? Are there precedents, albeit on a smaller scale? If one can believe authors like Victor Ostrowsky and Ari Ben Menashe, both former Israeli intelligence operatives, the answer is “yes”.
To cite on example from Chapter 18 of Ben Menashe’s book “Profits of War”

[In late 1988] Four Mossad hit squads were assigned to carry out the executions. The squads were something of a novelty – they were all made up of Palestinians. Unwitting, they thought they were carrying out the killings for a Sicilian don, who was actually someone working for Mossad. Israel used unsuspecting Palestinians for one compelling reason – if any of them were killed or caught, it would be obvious they were not Israelis

To return to Alternative Conspiracy Theories for 9/11,
it seems to me altogether plausible that Bin Laden’s
organization has been well penetrated, perhaps by agents with family ties to Yemen. (At least two attempts at Israeli penetration of Al Quaeda are documented: one in India and one in Gaza; furthermore one can only assume that other nations have also been active in such penetration). It could well be that an
agent provocateur within the organization (who could even be Bin Ladin himself) piloted the “Islamic part”
of the operation, while nimble and well-placed assistants in the Western world provided the behind the scenes assistance that guaranteed its astounding success.
Note that in all of this I try to be “reasonable”,
in the sense that I recognize that this is only conjecture, not proven fact. Nevertheless, I find
this reading of the events more convincing than the OCT.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 11 2004 7:15 utc | 28

DM- who is contending that the video is not real? I’ve not heard this before, beyond speculation about the convenience of the release of the video. Obviously I have no problem believing that the video could be conveniently timed propaganda for someone other than UBL. However, I know of no evidence for this beyond questions about timing.
By your remarks, are you impunging Juan Cole? No, I don’t speak Arabic, but I wrote him an email asking about the issue of “states” that was trotted out by memri, and he answered the question on his blog. Others who speak Arabic agreed with this translation as well.
Al J. didn’t rely on Cole for their subtitles, I assume. Nor did the BBC. At what point do you doubt the reliability of any information, and what and who do you purport to provide information then?
Your sarcasm is unnecessary. If you have anything worthwhile to put forth as some sort of evidence, then please do so. Sarcasm does not constitute proof.

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 11 2004 12:26 utc | 29

HKOL
You might find this interesting re 911

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 11 2004 15:00 utc | 30

@old,
I went through the public school system in the late 70’s, got all A’s in history, thought I knew what was what. Twenty years later in a book store I discovered the book Lies My Teacher Told Me. I think that excellent critique of US history books is due for an update.

Posted by: gylangirl | Nov 11 2004 15:13 utc | 31

@ Cloned
Yes, that is interesting. I’m aware of the Cameron series and have read about its contents, but having it
on DVD would be very useful. I don’t have a DVD player
–cheers go up from the “screw capitalism” contingent–
but will undoubtedly get one soon after the disk arrives –chorus of hisses and boos from same group. I find it
striking (and surprising?) that Cameron is apparently
palsy-walsy with W. As Schweik says “there must be a deeper meaning”, just as there might be a deeper meaning to the fact that Dylan Ratigan (I believe), one of those who first reported the wave of airline put options just before
9/11, seems to have lost interest in this “financial story of the century” after going to work for CNBC.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 11 2004 15:32 utc | 32

@faux real, DM, Hannah, Jerome
To my challenge of Pericles upthread Jerome says “maybe”. I take that as confirmation that I have a point. Or two. I do agree that OBL and bushco objectives are similar, perhaps even of a seamless piece. However, starting the argument with a fallacy (that OBL was solely responsible for those attacks) is to perpetuate the coverup.
Remember that OBL was supported, worked with/for the CIA in Afghanistan against the Soviets. I understand that one does not quit a job like that. Failure to capture OBL at Tora Bora MAY have been due to incompetence but I think I remember that there were complaints from the troops that they were ordered to pull back. Anyway the bad guy has remained free as a convenience to his purported enemy. The Dub has all but said that himself. Rough quote: “I don’t care about Osama any more…”
So now he comes back with a new video right before the election to stoke the waning fear in the undecideds. Well done too. Nice coincidence.
There it is. They are working for the same bosses. Blair, da Dub, Rove, Cheney, and OBL and all the rest including our media have the same boss. Our job is to determine who exactly it is; a difficult job made almost impossible by a failure to connect the dots, an inability or an unwillingness to see past the dense smoke of propaganda and coincidence.

Posted by: rapt | Nov 11 2004 15:44 utc | 33

@ rapt

Our job is to determine who exactly it is; a difficult job made almost impossible by a failure to connect the dots, an inability or an unwillingness to see past the dense smoke of propaganda and coincidence.

I agree that our job is to clarify the true circumstances surrounding 9/11, whatever they may be.
I also agree that the moment of Bin Ladin’s separation from the CIA (assuming it ever happened, and assuming it wasn’t merely a promotion to becoming a Copper Green operative) is one of those points remaining to be clarified. For the time being we have to admit that we don’t “know” very much at all. This is no
accident given that the Bush administration must be the most secretive in American history. What is truly depressing is that it might be possible to unearth the true state of affairs and even to convince 30 million or so Americans of the validity of the evidence only to lose the next election as 55 million flat-earthers form voting phalanxes for the new Republican Guard.
As a slightly OT twist, does anyone have an opinion on
Robert Baer’s book “See No Evil”. To me it looks like
part of the Neocon disinformation campaign for war in Iraq, with a special knife reserved for Tony Lake.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 11 2004 16:02 utc | 34

@Hannah — i don’t trust baer. he appears to be still drawing a spook’s paycheck. did you catch his “review” of griffin’s 911 book in the nation? there’s also another article on baer + disinfo cached here

Posted by: b real | Nov 11 2004 16:14 utc | 35

b real, thanks for the “review”
I thought this piece was quite ironic
“A Zogby poll of New York City residents released
during the Republican National Convention found
that 49% of those surveyed think that the Bush
administration had foreknowledge of 9/11.”
And Bush got 51% in the election.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 11 2004 16:20 utc | 36

rapt
“They are working for the same bosses. Blair, da Dub, Rove, Cheney, and OBL and all the rest including our media have the same boss. Our job is to determine who exactly it is; a difficult job made almost impossible by a failure to connect the dots, an inability or an unwillingness to see past the dense smoke of propaganda and coincidence.”
Who is Chirac and Schroeder working for?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 11 2004 16:23 utc | 37

Sure law is difficult.
And justice is even more so.
The big question is, how much does it cost to buy it back?
Would, say, $90 million do do it?

Posted by: RossK | Nov 11 2004 16:45 utc | 38

@ b real
Thanks for the links to two charter members of
the “Conspiracy Theorists Hall of Fame” (I mean that as a compliment!). Kupferberg and Scott are really hard-core anti-paradigm conspiracy theorists’ conspiracy theorists. You know the buttoned-down types may think we’re crazy, but I’ve been have much more fun since I
decided to give up my futile efforts to achieve respectability. Unfortunately, this illumination has arrived too late to be really useful on the social level.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 11 2004 16:54 utc | 39

Oops, make that
“been having much more …”

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 11 2004 16:55 utc | 40

It has been said by others that among this class of the world’s elite (shall we call them the Bilderbergers?) there are conflicts, infighting. As Stan Goff points out today in a piece in Counterpunch I think it is, world oil production is right up against the stops. Instead of conservation or alternative energy source development, our solution is to muscle in to the wellheads so that we can cut certain consuming countries out of the demand loop and continue to feed our Hummers.
Chirac and Shroeder may not answer to the same boss but I know they’d rather the oil be priced in Euros.

Posted by: rapt | Nov 11 2004 17:03 utc | 41

@gylangirl,uncle$cam – that book was heavily used in our home. made the school system’s use of texan based propoganda difficult to work around, for sure. we also had picturesque tales of progress (british publication) for browsing mainly due to the artful design and tales, despite christian bias – still inspiring to read. the quality of such texts was astounding in comparison to our foxtv like texts of today. the true state of education is sadly overlooked as reason behind this ongoing cynical mindset. the educator,john holt, played a major role in our choice to deviate from the norm. now there is maurice holt(no relation) suggesting ‘slow schools’, removing tv’s and computers from classrooms until high school. commendable effort.

Posted by: old | Nov 11 2004 17:30 utc | 42

it seems absolutely clear to me that as i sd before the election – you are going to have an administration of dividers not uniters. more than that – it will be full of the criminals – & they are witthout doubt criminals in any sensible & decent jurisprudential sense.
b’s suggestion will not be too far off the mark i think. we will see the militants of their cause almost inviting a civil war in america & a liquidation of the ‘left’ that will make the murders of the black panthers & the young lords seem like a picnic
it is going to be very hot for the world but i think for you – americans like those who post here are going to find the life & the necessary activity political & otherwise very very difficult indeed
& the american murdering machine is bombing mosul tonight
may these donkies pay for their crimes
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 11 2004 18:25 utc | 43

rapt………. keep oil in dollars……….. it passed 1.30 today.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 11 2004 20:44 utc | 44

@fauxreal
No. I was not impugning Juan Cole in any way (one of the sane voices). Nor was the (slightly accidental) sarcastic tone meant to imply anything more than that I am (reluctantly) forced to accept this at face value.
So, without anything worthwhile in the way of theories, evidence, or proof, I am just stating (no tin-foil hat required) that (1) there was contention about the veracity of the post-9-11 video and the translation that OBL admitted his culpability (this may subsequently have been verified by Juan Cole and others), and that there are a number of anomalies in much of the official storyline surrounding the events of 9-11 and (2) I seem to remember a number of fairly sophisticated con-jobs ranging from babies being thrown out of incubators, to weapons of mass destruction. So it’s hard to say that we haven’t been suckered before.
(tin-foil hat required) – I just have this rather perverse trait of not easily accepting everything at face value. And as the war in Iraq has now tipped something like $144B , I am intrigued as to why the massive manhunt that must be under way for the world’s most wanted man never gets any press. I mean, there must be hundreds, if not more, involved in the forensic detective work, screening thousands of people, in an attempt to trace that video back to the source. So where the hell is this guy?

Posted by: DM | Nov 12 2004 0:07 utc | 45

OBL – according to one right winger that I attempted to have a civil conversation with – is being carefully watched so that his entire operation can be rounded up in one swell foop. Only a matter of time, according to this guy. Hmmm, October 2008 maybe?

Posted by: gmac | Nov 12 2004 0:45 utc | 46

I also do not assume that we know the full truth about many of the events relating to UBL and 9-11 and other things.
There are things that I cannot know because I don’t have the information, and as someone else mentioned here, the fact that this is the most secretive administration that has ever existed in America, it seems, makes a variety of semi- and unsupported theories all the more likely. Their secretiveness could be as much about covering up the illegal war planning for Iraq and the division of its oil via the Energy Policy Task Force as it could mean some current CIA role for UBL.
It could mean that the Bushies knew some sort of attack was coming, but did not know the towers would fall…after all, the first WTC attack did not have the same impact. Or maybe they didn’t know because they rejected what Clinton said about the importance of UBL and were, instead, planning to invade Iraq under some other pretext.
Or maybe those explanations are insufficient, and I need to read The Little Drummer Girl, or some other John Le Carre to try to imagine who might be playing whom, all at the same time, and then finding out who was the sucker after all.
But it can be argued, as well, that UBL turned his back on the U.S. and his actions were more successful than he planeed.
Blowback is a constant feature of black ops, and the desire to cover up that issue is as valid as an assumption of a partnership.
I think it’s dangerous to reduce nations and organizations to the idea that they go along with each other for any reason other than a strategic idea that something gives them something they want.
For example…Saudi Arabia playing both to the U.S. and to terrorists in order to maintain a trading partner (and their power) while also supporting terrorists (in order to keep them out of S.A., before), and because of Wahabbist ideology and the power sharing/interfamilial Saud/Wahabbi reality, and as a way to be of “good faith” with those who claim to carry the mantle of the faith, in the same way the religious right does here. If we think religion is intruding here, that reality is ten times worse in S.A.
As far as the powerful collaborating in some global scheme…well, I think it, again, comes down to the issue of money and power and alliances that facilitate this or stop it for someone else…the politics of money at the gazillionaire level.
We the people around the world who populate the planet and do the work are as inconsequential to those people as a colony of ants is to someone walking across a yard.
People have different rationales for the power struggles…with UBL it’s a return to glory for the muslim world (and no doubt he sees himself as the Caliphate wannabe). For the Bush League, it’s access to oil and the profits from the same…that’s their game…not to mention the thrill of exercising power or creating fear in so many the world over.
For some members of the Bush League, it’s making Israel the power in the middle east, and destroying or neutering nations that it thinks threaten this goal.
That they all gain by certain actions doesn’t mean they share a common vision, or even an alliance (tho some do because it’s convenient for the moment.)
Sort of like Hitler and Stalin, for example, or like America and Europe after WW2, but less and less so now as America feels threatened by any other nation having enough economic or other power to in any way impede its decisions on any issue.

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 12 2004 3:27 utc | 47

Worth a bookmark
http://www.felbers.net/mt/
Q&A: Your New Attorney General
As you’ve probably heard, we’re getting a new attorney general, and his name is Alberto Gonzales. Here are some common questions and answers about the man and the office.
Q: “Alberto Gonzales…” that sounds familiar. Where have I heard that name?
A: White House counsel. He’s the guy who wrote that infamous memo justifying the use of torture on prisoners in the war on terror. Remember, the one that thought that the Geneva Convention and other existing torture treaties don’t apply? He called ’em “quaint?” Ring a bell?
Q: Should I be worried about human rights and my civil liberties?
A: Yeah. Fans of their rights should remain at Orange Alert.
Q: I forget – what exactly are civil liberties and human rights?
A: They’re the unfashionable, long-haired liberal components of the Freedom we’ve been fighting for around the world.
Q: Oh. What are the other components of “freedom” besides that hippie stuff?
A: Um… moral values? Our “way of life?” Look, whose side are you on?
Q: Nevermind. Back to Gonzales. Is he… well… like Ashcroft?
A: No, he’s probably not as bad as Ashcroft in terms of sheer authoritarian audacity. Ashcroft was a master when it came to privacy infringement, and he really can’t ever be replaced. He was the Prince of Peep, the Sultan of Spook, and the Lord of Lethal Injection. All across America today, shadowy people who don’t officially exist are backing away from keyholes to stand and salute while flying their invisible flags at half-mast.
Q: That’s a little over-the-top, isn’t it?
A: Maybe. But you have to remember that Justice was blind until Ashcroft gave her a nifty pair of night vision binoculars.
Q: What can we expect from Gonzales?
A: Mercifully, we might get a Department of Justice that doesn’t resemble the one from “Minority Report” quite so much. Maybe. And Gonzales will do his best to uphold the law as he interprets it, though recent history suggests that he sees the law as having a certain taffy-like quality. He also might reinstate “jeans day” at the DOJ.
Q: Why are some conservatives against the appointment?
A: Partly because with the near-total elimination of Democrats from positions of power, the Kristian Konservative Killing Machine has had to adjust its target settings from “Liberal” to “Moderate” to “Anyone But Us.” As a judge, Gonzales once allowed a 17 year old girl to get an abortion without parental consent. So he may be “soft on abortion.” Which is why – despite Bush’s likely Supreme Court appointments, despite Bush’s avowed support for the pro-life agenda, despite the nonexistent role that the Department of Justice has in changing existing abortion laws – some social conservatives don’t think Gonzales is qualified to be the attorney general.
Q: You’re kidding, right?
A: God, I wish I was.
Q: Are you okay?
A: I just need to sit down for a minute…

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 12 2004 7:25 utc | 48

ashcroft’s farewell sermon

Posted by: b real | Nov 12 2004 16:14 utc | 49