Please post news/comments on the current Iraq situation here.
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November 12, 2004
Iraq Thread
Please post news/comments on the current Iraq situation here.
Comments
For starters three buried facts from todays general reporting:
Go find a place that’s save?
Now are you in a save place or are you an unarmed sleeper cell? This is a naked “justification” to kill all male, unarmed civilians. War crime No. 1,345?
Posted by: b | Nov 12 2004 15:46 utc | 1 Eyewitness Reporting by an Iraqi journalist/Fallouja resident for the BBC. I hope bloody nightmares haunt Bush for the rest of his life. Posted by: ego | Nov 12 2004 15:53 utc | 2 Four brigades from the Iraqi National Guard have been ordered to Mosul from their bases near Syria. The units consist of Kurds who used to be in the Kurdish peshmerga militia before being incorporated into the government’s security force. Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 12 2004 15:56 utc | 3 What to say?! This is some information from August, but I have not been aware of it before.
Posted by: Fran | Nov 12 2004 17:37 utc | 4 Has anyone reported on where all the Fallujah civilian refugees supposedly went before the battle? Did they just disappear, go to a relative’s home in another city, congregate in a refugee camp, cross a border, what? Judgeing by the media account, they just disappeared! Posted by: gylangirl | Nov 12 2004 17:44 utc | 5 Let’s just do everything we can to insult and enrage Muslims worldwide shall we? Rumsfeld – El Salvador can be Iraq model Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 12 2004 20:20 utc | 7 Washington The US-led postwar government in Iraq awarded business to two multinational banks fined for violating U.S. sanctions against Iraq during the regime of ousted dictator Saddam Hussein, records show. Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 12 2004 21:06 utc | 8 Thanks for the Martin van Creveld article on Dayan’s experience of vietnam, it’s fascinating.
If you go look at the details of the recent deaths of US soldiers, the most striking fact is how few are listed with “Fallujah” as location. A big majority is in “al anbar” province, where Fallujah is, but also the rest of the Sunni triangle, if I am not mistaken. Where’s the fighting? Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 12 2004 21:13 utc | 9 He asked what the difference was between what is occurring in Fallujah now to what Saddam Hussein did during his repression of the Shia Intifada which followed the ’91 Gulf War. “Saddam suppressed that uprising and used less awful methods than the Americans are in Fallujah today.” Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 12 2004 22:00 utc | 10 “…They can’t go north because that’s where we are. They can’t go west because of the Euphrates river and they can’t go east because we have a huge presence there. So they are cornered in the south,” Marine Master Sergeant Roy Meek told Reuters. …. Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 12 2004 22:03 utc | 11 De, Posted by: Kate_Storm | Nov 12 2004 23:01 utc | 12 Bernhard, as a European, you should know very well what that means: “no males aged 15 to 55 should be allowed to leave, arguing that insurgents could mingle with refugees to avoid being killed or captured” Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 12 2004 23:10 utc | 13 More from Kate’s quote. Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 12 2004 23:12 utc | 14 from link (U.S. battles for control of Falluja) posted by sic transit: Posted by: slothrop | Nov 12 2004 23:44 utc | 15 Let them eat cake. All mankinde is of one Author, Posted by: possum | Nov 13 2004 1:22 utc | 17 …I want them to know about conditions inside this city – there are dead women and children lying on the streets. .. Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 13 2004 1:24 utc | 18 Sorry to be off-topic again, but things are brewing in regards to the election challenge, too — they need funds for this, so give if you can. The clock is ticking! Posted by: JMF | Nov 13 2004 3:23 utc | 19 From the Guardian, Naomi Klein.
Posted by: Fran | Nov 13 2004 6:35 utc | 20 Thanks Fran, Could Mosul be the birthplace of total civil war? Curfews as Iraq rebellion spreads Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 13 2004 7:47 utc | 23 RossK Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 13 2004 8:46 utc | 24 @ Cloned Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 13 2004 9:09 utc | 25 HKOL Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 13 2004 9:21 utc | 26 @ Cloned Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 13 2004 9:32 utc | 27 “How could my erstwhile compatriots have returned that sadistic shithead to office?” Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 13 2004 9:44 utc | 28 Regarding the “Israel giving the Kurds a free state” idea above, yesterday I read an article that I can’t find now that discussed a plan Turkey is preparing to send 20,000 troops into Northern Iraq in a month or two to battle Kurdish insurgents. Anybody else see this or hear anything about this? Could be another very ugly situation. Posted by: maxcrat | Nov 13 2004 13:42 utc | 29 Found it. It was an RFE/RL report that I saw at The Agonist website. Excerpt: Posted by: maxcrat | Nov 13 2004 13:45 utc | 30 “How could my erstwhile compatriots have returned that sadistic shithead to office?” Posted by: aw | Nov 13 2004 14:54 utc | 31 Somewhat OT: I’m back here, thanks to Jerome. I had lost the link. Posted by: Lupin | Nov 13 2004 15:47 utc | 32 Iraq says Fallujah offensive over but Zarqawi slips the net
I don´t think this will have any consequences for the US military action. Posted by: b | Nov 13 2004 17:03 utc | 33 HannahKOL– I was at the rugby match today……… we beat the boks! Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 13 2004 19:18 utc | 35 ” but I have the distinct impression the Yanks at home don’t have any idea of how totally this war has immersed the name of the U.S. in shit.” Posted by: jj | Nov 13 2004 19:44 utc | 36 US War Crime No. MCCXIL
Posted by: b | Nov 13 2004 20:56 utc | 37 I’m in favor of turning over fraudulent election results JJ, but only if the perps are hanged without undue delay. Under existing law this would be quite legal I think. Traitors, etc. Posted by: rapt | Nov 13 2004 21:01 utc | 38 Iraq: The Unthinkable Becomes Normal Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 13 2004 21:23 utc | 39 cp Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 13 2004 22:16 utc | 40 RAPT, no argument from me. Last night I asked myself who would I rather fight for: Canada, a beautiful democracy where they don’t lock their door in cities & everyone has medical care, or Jerry Fallwell, DeLay, Frist, Thune, Hagel, Cheney & the Mob? Scary stuff, huh????? Posted by: jj | Nov 13 2004 22:39 utc | 41 IMPORTANT PS to last post. I am not advocating illegal activity of any kind. This is our country, we won the election. Let’s legally find ways to insure the President-elect actually takes office this time. Posted by: jj | Nov 13 2004 22:51 utc | 42 For my part, I’ve already put the wheels in motion to move to France in the New Year; for details see my Daily Kos diary. Posted by: Lupin | Nov 13 2004 23:04 utc | 43 California National Guardsman killed in Iraq Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 13 2004 23:58 utc | 44 Lupin! Godspeed and good luck! But please find a way to keep posting here and at Kos. Posted by: semper ubi | Nov 14 2004 0:03 utc | 45 ‘Catastrophic conditions’ in Falluja Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 0:04 utc | 46 @DM — still out there? Here is an article that makes the connection between the US occupation of Iraq and the British occupation and plundering of India. I don’t know the author, or his slant or background. I do know that the facts he outlines here, and the way he connects them, are familiar to me from other reading. Still can’t find the book or article in which I most recently encountered this well-known story. I’m wondering if it was something by Arundhati Roy. No “general thread” this weekend? Posted by: JMF | Nov 14 2004 0:23 utc | 48 deanader Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 14 2004 0:57 utc | 49 Sic transit… Posted by: Kate_Storm | Nov 14 2004 1:04 utc | 50 that is the black book of capitalism – livre noir – there is of course the writings of nehru there is another magisterial history of india & the genocide of indians by the british by – i think a ardit roy – it’s a long time since i’ve read – but it is a colleague of hobshawn at cambridge Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 14 2004 1:08 utc | 51 ….The first aid convoy has arrived, amid fears of a humanitarian crisis. Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 1:20 utc | 52 Bonne chance Lupin! Kate Storm Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 2:02 utc | 54 sic transit gloria usa Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 14 2004 2:22 utc | 55 Violence erupts across Iraq and aid agencies warn of disaster as US declares battle of Fallujah is over Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 2:35 utc | 56 Sic transit gloria USA– WASHINGTON, Nov. 12 – Human rights experts said Friday that American soldiers might have committed a war crime on Thursday when they sent fleeing Iraqi civilians back into Falluja. Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 2:53 utc | 58 Stan Goff, film critic — Goff takes on Hollywood, using Man on Fire as his starting point for an analysis of the connection between fantasies of masculinity, revenge, and vigilante “justice” and imperial violence abroad and at home. ‘I see the little kids in the cars and I feel sorry for them, but when they turn 16 they’re evil.’ Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 4:58 utc | 60 When the smoke has cleared around Falluja, what horrors will be revealed? Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 6:05 utc | 61 U.S. says aid convoy can’t go Into Falluja today Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 13:38 utc | 62 Four Sunni clerics are detained Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 14:06 utc | 63 dea Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 14 2004 14:33 utc | 64 U.S. troops attend to a Bradley armored vehicle which lost a track in a roadside bomb explosion in Baghdad, November 14th 2004. One soldier of the 1st Cavalry division’s 1st Battalion 21st Field Artillery regiment suffered a broken leg in the incident Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 15:18 utc | 65 “…and what will their faces tell them Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 15:53 utc | 66 From the Healing Iraq blog:
Posted by: b | Nov 14 2004 18:49 utc | 67 She weeps while telling the story. The abaya (tunic) she wears cannot hide the shaking of her body as waves of grief roll through her. “I cannot get the image out of my mind of her foetus being blown out of her body.” Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 21:18 utc | 68 From the icasualties website, I note 51 dead US soldiers in 5 days.
Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 14 2004 22:06 utc | 69 Iraq civilians stranded far from relief camps Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 14 2004 23:16 utc | 70 Sic transit: Frankly, if the US anti-war people were serious about it, they should decide to drop the “support our troops” thingie and go for the real deal: “Support our stormtroopers”. Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 15 2004 0:58 utc | 71 I have noted something that others might have noted to. At icasualties.org the number of dead coalition soldiers has so far each month of the second year of the occupation (march 2003 should be counted as war rather then occupation) been larger than the number same month the first year. Posted by: A swedish kind of death | Nov 15 2004 2:29 utc | 72 Iraq vote could be delayed Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 15 2004 6:23 utc | 74 DeA – i realise I was not clear. Relative to population (10 fewer people in Iraq than in the US), it is indeed each day. In absolute terms, it is of course not the same. Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 15 2004 7:05 utc | 75 @jerome — ah, I see. I knew you would never err by an order of magnitude 🙂 thought it might be a typo though. btw I liked the windfarm thread 🙂 Why, Clueless, “Support our stormtroopers”. that’s kinda catchy!! Seriously, relieved to see it. I’ve been gagging all weekend at the prospect of reading yet more stories of the suffering of “our soldiers”. Maybe Stan Goff will write about it. Regardless, we’re stuck paying the bills for “our soldiers” forever, just as the poor Iraqis are stuck w/the bastards fighting on their behalf. As Arundhati Roy noted, this isn’t the soil from which a secular sensitive feminist opposition grows. MaleChristian Fascism begets MaleMuslim fascism. Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 15 2004 8:36 utc | 77 I made the corrective calculation when I saw Jérôme’s Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 15 2004 9:43 utc | 78 US officer charged with murder in shooting of Iraqi Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 15 2004 10:45 utc | 80 I want your opinion. Do you think that the Americans will give power to the Shia, as they have promised to do? Or they will try to cheat Sistani and prevent the Shia from controling the Iraqi state? Posted by: Greco | Nov 15 2004 11:56 utc | 81 “Frankly, if the US anti-war people were serious about it, they should decide to drop the ‘support our troops’ thingie and go for the real deal: ‘Support our stormtroopers.'” Posted by: Pat | Nov 15 2004 16:12 utc | 83 Raedhas pictures and Riverbend is getting more and more angry. If I look at what I feel about the situation in Iraq, I can only imagine how it must be for her and all the other Iraqis. Posted by: Fran | Nov 15 2004 16:23 utc | 84 Pat, it’s nice to see you come out of your fascist closet from time to time, you know. Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 15 2004 18:34 utc | 85 Cj and CP – it is le Mont Blanc, seen from the French side… Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 15 2004 19:04 utc | 87 Pat ! Your advocacy, while (darkly) amusing, is I think a flight of wishfull thinking. While some lady yelling “baby killer” out her car window may seem to you like a start, I dont think you should put to much hope in it. After all, it so aberant in comparison to the spitting on all returning vets, not to mention the violent upheaval on campuses, the SDS, the Weathermen, the Panthers, and all those vets throwing medals (or were those ribbons? what-ever). Now I can see that you would really like to have a better showing, but I think at this point, it’s futle to wish for a Susan Saranden covorting erotically arm in arm with Muqtada al-Sadr. Posted by: anna missed | Nov 15 2004 21:19 utc | 89 Helen Thomas reminds us that here in the U.S. we already know we’re wrong. Posted by: Citizen | Nov 15 2004 21:22 utc | 90 “It looks like this time around there will be no excuses, no blameing, no passing the buck, no hiding evading or pointing of fingers. Im afraid that this time the whole wretched failure will descend with, pristine indoubitablity, squrarely upon the shoulders of the government first, then without a doubt, the military, and finally after the recent election, the American people. This time, the denial will have be absolute and total, and most likely Divine.” Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 15 2004 21:29 utc | 91 Who needs The Guardian or the NY Times or the BBC or CNN (or Pepe Escobar) when one has the Baghdad Bob-like pronouncements of the Resistance itself? Posted by: Pat | Nov 15 2004 21:53 utc | 92 Who needs The Guardian or the NY Times or the BBC or CNN (or Pepe Escobar) when one has the Baghdad Bob-like pronouncements of the Resistance itself? Posted by: Pat | Nov 15 2004 22:23 utc | 93 Sorry about that, b. Posted by: Pat | Nov 15 2004 22:26 utc | 94 pat Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 15 2004 22:31 utc | 95 Hi Pat. Concerning your post at 11:12 AM: Are you serious? Or is this a sendup of the peacenik lefties? I honestly can’t read it either way, and remembering that you worked as a linguist, I thought I’d better make sure. Posted by: teuton | Nov 15 2004 23:31 utc | 96 “I think [it is] a flight of wishfull thinking” Posted by: Pat | Nov 16 2004 0:07 utc | 97 the Other that is said to be currently the object of a progrom in Mesopotamia – is not the Iraqis. It never was. The ‘Other’ is the immoderate Left Posted by: slothrop | Nov 16 2004 0:14 utc | 98 Few foreigners among rebels captured in Falluja Posted by: Sic transit gloria USA | Nov 16 2004 0:15 utc | 99 Teuton Posted by: Pat | Nov 16 2004 0:29 utc | 100 |
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