Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 8, 2004
Incendiary Filler

rosary-machine-gun

The M242 25mm "Bushmaster" Chain Gun, manufactured by McDonnell Douglas, has a single barrel with an integrated dual-feed mechanism and remote ammunition selection. Either armor piercing (AP) or high explosive (HE) ammunition may be selected with the flick of a switch. The Gunner may select from single or multiple shot modes. The standard rate of fire is 200 rounds per minute, and has a range of 2,000 meters (depending on the ammunition used).
Link

Gasses produced by the burning propellant send the projectile out of the gun at 1,100 meters per second (plus or minus 20 meters per second). On impact, the M758 mechanical fuze ignites and the HEI filler detonates. This projects steel fragments from the body, rotating band assembly, and incendiary filler over a 5-meter radius.
M792 High-Explosive Incendiary with Tracer (HEI-T)

Comments

Rosary Beads

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 8 2004 12:05 utc | 1

Hey, George, it really is a crusade! It’s little touches like this that make Holy Wars so appealing to the faithful. No doubt in their wet dreams those guns are pointed at Democrats, Liberals, Pro-Abortionist Judges, Homosexuals, Historians and Anthropologists, Geologists, Professors, Enviromentalists, the ACLU, and Feminists as well. Can’t wait for the next RNC auto de fe! Maybe the Blood of Democrats with be the Seed of the Party (to dreadfully misquote Tertullian). It’s delightful images like this that burn in my mind. Maybe its time to drag out my old Steppenwolf

Posted by: Diogenes | Nov 8 2004 13:38 utc | 2

I should add my Steppenwolf Monster album.

Posted by: Diogenes | Nov 8 2004 13:40 utc | 3

And don’t forget, Diogenes,
These so-called Crusaders are also wiping out what’s left of Byzantium, finishing the job the West began so long ago. It’s been going in Jerusalem for a couple of decades, and now they can take them out in Baghdad too. At least that’s the effect of these policies, which might as well be recruiting agents for the Bin Ladens of the world.

Posted by: x | Nov 8 2004 13:44 utc | 4

The 25mm gun’s impact on typical urban targets seems magnified if the firing is in short bursts. At close ranges, the gunner might need to shift his point of aim in a spiral pattern to ensure that the second and third bursts enlarge the hole. Even without burst fire, sustained 25mm gunfire can defeat almost all urban targets:
Reinforced Concrete. Reinforced concrete walls, which are 12 to 20 inches thick, present problems for the 25mm gun when trying to create breach holes. It is relatively easy to penetrate, fracture, and clear away the concrete, but the reinforcing rods remain in place. These create a “jail window” effect by preventing entry but allowing grenades or rifle fire to be placed behind the wall. Steel reinforcing rods are normally 3/4 inch thick and 6 to 8 inches apart – there is no quick way of cutting these rods. They can be cut with demolition charges, cutting torches, or special power saws. Firing with either APDS-T or HEI-T rounds from the 25mm gun will not always cut these rods.
Brick Walls. The 25mm gun more easily defeats brick walls, regardless of their thickness, and the rounds produce the most spall.
Bunker Walls.The 25mm gun is devastating when fired against sandbag bunker walls. Obliquity has the least affect on the penetration of bunker walls. Bunkers with earth walls up to 36 inches thick are easily penetrated. At short ranges typical of combat in urban areas, defeating a bunker should be easy, especially if the 25mm gun can fire at an aperture.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 8 2004 14:10 utc | 5

This just sucks.
I can only hope that somebody (and not *anybody*) from either the US administration and/or all major christian churches will have a word or two to say about this. it would be rather useful if the vatican takes a clear stance in public.

Posted by: name | Nov 8 2004 14:25 utc | 6

@B:
You certainly know how to create an into your corn flakes breakfast moment!
Ain’t technology wonderful.
Probably good at herding cats and penguins too.
Do you know whether civilians can own this under current US gun laws and where one can buy several.
In my business they would be great ground hog burrow busters and would ventilate beaver dams pretty well too.
Just think if the Russians had had this at Grozny or if Bill Murray had had one at Caddy Shack.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Nov 8 2004 14:39 utc | 7

name: I agree. I don’t know of major statements, but I can reprint here a statement by the World Council of Churches on the election of Bush — keep in mind they’re speaking to their member churches, not the public.
Dear sisters and brothers in Christ,
Grace to you and peace in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I am writing to you, the member churches of the World Council of Churches (WCC) in the United States of America, on behalf of your extended church family around the world.
We ask God’s grace and peace for you and for the person who will finally be chosen as leader of your country. We send this letter to encourage and support you in these important times, and to renew our fellowship in the unity of the Holy Spirit and in the bonds of peace.
The choice of the US president is of great concern not only to the people of the USA but also to people across the world. Though we are confident that God’s Holy Spirit, the advocate and comforter, is with us, many people in the world today confess to feeling afraid for the future. People feel fear of terrorism, fear of old struggles newly re-branded as terrorism, and fear of fear itself in the service of great power.
Yet this letter is not about fear. It commends God’s all-embracing grace and peace to you, in faith and with goodwill.
Know that we stand with you, as sisters and brothers, in the hope that only God can give. That hope reminds us that fear is no match for the recognition of God’s presence in our lives which sustains our faith. We can look with confidence to the days ahead because there is far more that unites us as people of faith than separates us as citizens of a divided world. We are all members of Christ’s body. Nothing – no terror, no fear, no lie – can ever separate us.
We do not ask whose side God was on in this election. Rather, like Abraham Lincoln when he confronted a divisive war, we seek to be found on God’s side. We pray that all people of faith with the help of God’s Spirit may discern what is good for the world.
Many people have watched the US closely in recent months, with great interest in how churches shape a powerful nation’s stance toward the world. The harsh claims that make most of the headlines, that invoke the judgement of a partisan god, have provoked deep concern around the world.
How different it is, however, when churches offer a moral and spiritual compass for their community, their nation and the world. They are a voice for the good of all, and are seen as such. They love the whole world; they pray for God to bless the lands of others. People far and near – especially our cousins of other faiths – await such signs from all of us.
As fellow citizens of the world, we wish you peace. Half a century ago, with US leadership, an international community convinced of the need for change, gave birth to the United Nations, to the UN Charter, to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to the Geneva Convention, and much more. The shared purpose then was to secure peace and promote human security. At that time, churches and their members added greatly to the process and did not go unheard. They served as a moral conscience for their time.
Today, too, people all over the world recognize what the US can offer. By being a country open to newcomers of different cultures and creeds. By trusting the rule of law. By supporting democracy and the freedom of speech. By being ready to take action when the international community, through the United Nations, asks for US participation and leadership. By being generous to those in need. By addressing the root causes of poverty and social injustice, within the US as well as globally. As churches, we are asked to be involved and contribute to such political directions.
The WCC member churches in the US have been active in forming the mind of the ecumenical movement throughout its history. As a worldwide family of more than 340 churches, we share with each other and with the wider world the privilege of living for a purpose deeper than economic success and working for goals greater than national security.
On this third day of November, 2004, we pray that we may answer the challenges before us in faith and in love, together

Posted by: x | Nov 8 2004 15:09 utc | 8

Eindhoven bombing…maybe in retaliation for Van Gogh death.
Looks like The Netherlands is facing some major issues regarding Islamic fundamentalism and a backlash from Van Gogh’s murder.
Also some problems in Utrecht last week.
It’s too bad all the fundamentalists, no matter what they call their god or belief system, can’t be sequestered on a deserted island and then be allowed to fight it out amongst themselves so that the rest of us could go on with building a better world based upon something other than fanaticism.
In A Generation of Swine, Hunter S. Thompson imagined an island for people like Marcos, Duvalier, the Shah…(now add Bush and Cheney)…all utterly corrupt…where they could go about their murderous ways and pretend they were entitled to their filthy lucre…
sort of like that…

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 8 2004 15:31 utc | 9

fauxreal: the desert island idea is an excellent one. If only!
Interesting article at antiwar.com The Worst is Yet to Come

Posted by: x | Nov 8 2004 15:40 utc | 10

The problem is that a potential future avenging Iraqi terrorist will choose to strike major US coastal cities (Dem voters), NOT the flat land that voted in favor of the pro-Crusade policies (GWB is pro-Crusade, dig it? 😉 ).
BTW, did you notice, that when Bush speaks of 9/11, he does not mention “New York”? He takes the event out of it’s geographic and demographic context. NYC is perceived as a liberal city. Better not to mention that place of sin.
P.S. somebody tell me (hindsight 20/20) why Kerry did not respond to the SwiftBoatAds with KarlRoveAds. I just read a list of Karl’s major accomplishments. So dirty.

Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Nov 8 2004 16:09 utc | 11

Wow, I immediately thought of those images they like to show of radical muslims holding up little Korans amongst a bunch of raised rifles. The muslim version is presented as the face of religious extremism, while this is presented as freedom and tolerance. Only in America.

Posted by: kat | Nov 8 2004 16:41 utc | 12

for the same reason he didn’t listen to the anti-war sentiments of his delegates. and the disgust that so many informed citizens felt in voting for him, simply b/c he was anybody but bush, deflates the imperative to protest the phony election. after kerry’s quick concession, turning his back on those who came out for him, what…other than the perpetually deluded, there is no incentive to want to see that he take office. it only increases the cynicism in this country, which keeps the discontent in disarray, and not interfering in the transition from police state to military state.

Posted by: b real | Nov 8 2004 16:43 utc | 13

What an upsetting picture.
I have picked these excerpts as I see them as examples of different types of essential reasoning and feeling. More could be added but enough is enough.
Yet as I kneel in an attitude of fervent prayer, I am reminded of the history of this nation and those who fought and sacrificed so that I could be “free”. My mournful spirit asks the age old question, “who will fight for the Slave”, those who cannot fight for themselves. Who will fight for the men, women and children who were and are being slaughtered in Iraq and Liberia and other places throughout Africa, or in any Nation were the poor, helpless and downtrodden are being killed and tortured daily?
We will.

Tony, US soldier in Iraq, July 2003.
Link
Too often we expect God to be on our side.  But that is not the real issue.  It is not a matter of whose side God is on in warfare, or any other aspect of life.  The real question is not, “Whose side is God on”, but, “Are we on God’s side?” 
Major General Cross, British Army, 2002.
Link
However, it is difficult to understand how anyone could read the Bible and fail to see that God’s Word not only sets forth the absolute truths He wants people to know, but also gives repeated warnings about how to recognize error and how to deal with it. A “positive only Bible” is an invention of Satan as is a “positive only Christ.” Furthermore, why would Christ call His followers to be soldiers, provide them with both defensive and offensive armor (2 Tim. 6:10-18), and then tell them never to fight? Such a conclusion is both irrational and unscriptural.
M. Reynolds, on a fundamental evangelist site.
Link
..and in the symbols section, no rosary beads.. This Red, White & Blue Christian Soldiers Cross Necklace shown in the upper right hand corner, can be proudly displayed to show that you too are a true American patriot crusader in the army of soldiers for Jesus!
It is a symbolic cross made of nails wrapped in red, white and blue wire hanging from a simulated leather neck cord. 

Link
         

Posted by: Blackie | Nov 8 2004 17:50 utc | 14

Well I guess now we know whom Jesus would bomb.
Shouldn’t surprise us though: Inquisition torturing in the name of Holy Love; Spanish Conquistadores invoking Christ while hunting Indios to the death with dogs, feeding the corpses to the dogs; missionaries “saving” poor orphans in China only to work them 15 hours a day in “charity home” that were actually sweatshops for lace making and other textile crafts; the Magdalene institutions; and while we’re handing out the HypOscars (award for hypocrisy), there’s always the “pro-peasant” Soviet machine destroying traditional farming by megalomaniac forced collectivisation (note the fun-house mirror reflection of factory farming and forced privatisation in the US); and the pro-literacy, pro-learning Maoist revolution reverting to Red Guardism and destroying books, beating up teachers and scholars…
Still what an embarrassing picture. One of the reasons I don’t believe in God is that if God were watching, and just, He would do something pretty serious about people who hang crosses on chainguns and fancy themselves His footsoldiers. Lightning would be favourite but I’d settle for a plague of boils.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 8 2004 18:12 utc | 15

Here is something to back up my thoughts:

Kerry Anger Over Swift Boat Ads. By August, the attack of the Swift Boat veterans was getting to Kerry. He called adviser Tad Devine, who was prepping to appear on “Meet The Press” the next day: “It’s a pack of f—ing lies, what they’re saying about me,” he fairly shouted over the phone. Kerry blamed his advisers for his predicament. (Cahill and Shrum argued responding to the ads would only dignify them.) He had wanted to fight back; they had counseled caution. Even Kerry’s ex-wife, Julia Thorne, was very upset about the ads, she told daughter Vanessa. She could remember how Kerry had suffered in Vietnam; she had seen the scars on his body, heard him cry out at night in his nightmares. She was so agitated about the unfairness of the Swift Boat assault that she told Vanessa she was ready to break her silence, to speak out and personally answer the Swift Boat charges. She changed her mind only when she was reassured that the campaign was about to start fighting back hard.

Hard? I’d rather say “gently”.

Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Nov 8 2004 18:19 utc | 16

re the insanity of M. Reynolds above, I tried to actually look up the biblical reference he gives, and there is no such thing as 2 Timothy chapter 6. Brilliant. There’s a 1 Timothy chap 6 which he’s probably referring to, which in English is translated to “fight the good fight of faith.” Of course it’s a good fight of *faith* because it’s not the lousy horrible fighting of *war* (where “he who lives by the sword dies by the sword,” etc) but that’s lost on M. Reynolds. In Greek, actually, the word is closer to “struggle” rather than “fight,” which makes it more clear that we’re talking about an internal struggle, but what the heck… One might stop to wonder why all the M. Reynoldses of the world never stop to think that Paul did not “fight the good fight of faith” by collecting weapons and creating an army to go kill people (and neither did Jesus for that matter), but it’s really not worth the effort…
And what’s further lost on M. Reynolds is that this passage is the one in which it’s laid out that the love of money is the root of all evil, and that those with money and wealth and material power must surrender their arrogance and faith in these material things with which they can conquer the world materially (like body armor and weapons!)to the God of love and that this is expressed by doing good works and distributing wealth to others, communicating with them, etc…. argh…
sorry for the rant. I don’t really know how to deal with total insanity. It might be an interesting analysis, but I’m afraid these people might be beyond hope.

Posted by: x | Nov 8 2004 18:20 utc | 17

DeAnander: the question of evil and why it is allowed to exist by a God who is supposed to be “good” is an age old and important one. The conventional answer is that we’re given freedom to screw up as much as we want, and that we weren’t created to be a sort of Jesus version of Stepford Wives, where we all sort of are forced to do the right thing. It’s also up to us to figure out how to get out of our own messes. We’re responsible for our freedom. The story of Jesus’ crucifixion (without divine interference to save him) is above all the example that the power of God is something quite different from coercive material power we egomaniacal humans think is all there is. Of course, this is toally lost on the fundies too, who say that this happened “because it was prophesied” (rather than the other way around, duh), ignore everything they can’t comprehend and proudly look forward to the end of the world even though Christ himself explicitly says in those gospels that nobody knows when such things will be and nobody should speculate on it.. But never mind. I’m afraid I’m taking up bandwidth on stuff people probably aren’t interested in…

Posted by: x | Nov 8 2004 18:29 utc | 18

@x it’s not insanity… it’s just Constantinian Christianity — or Muscular Christianity, or whatever they’re calling it this time around, for the purposes of this Empire. The xtian doctrine has repeatedly been mangled into agitprop for one empire after another. Basically, as I see it, all empires are the same, and they take whatever cult (religious, ideologica, whatever) is popular at the time and turn it into a propaganda weapon. The polytheistic Romans made Gods out of their Emperors. Later on, Constantine managed to turn the oppositional monotheistic Christian faith into an official State religion.
Marc Ellis
, quietly brilliant guy, has written about Constantinian Judaism being re-invented and promoted by the State of Israel and its politics.
As soon as the religious impulse is harnessed for secular ends, it seems, corruption and hypocrisy follow as the night the day. In this sense I think there really is an unbridgeable divide between the worldly and the unworldly, the profane and the sacred. When religion is dragged into politics it quickly becomes profaned and (I would say, looking at that appalling photograph) obscene.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 8 2004 18:35 utc | 19

b
absolutely necessary that photograp & we need many more so that we shall never forget what is happening – a massacre
x – your discourse an absolute necessary – as are the others here – whatever teaches us & whatever we learn at this moment integral to wearing our skin
& it is connected
& the barbarians attack along the beautiful euphrates creating as they do 1, 2, 3 many wars – may they lose each one
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 8 2004 18:37 utc | 20

little condorcet a colleague of mine – if people would like a translation – i will glady provide
still steel
dea – you give me strenght these last ten days

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 8 2004 18:40 utc | 21

no x it is interesting, fine. I wondered about those biblical refs., i don’t know them. thx.

Posted by: Blackie | Nov 8 2004 18:40 utc | 22

Giuliano Ferrara, a former spokesman for Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, also spoke at the debate, saying that “there is a cultural war happening which has to be fought with force and virtue”, according to the Spanish news agency Efe bbc
unfortuantely for them – they possess neither
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 8 2004 18:45 utc | 23

as the american army murders its way into history with the help of a very small number or iraqui extras(who will not leave their phone numbers) who will be filmed copiously by the cockless commentators of cnnfoxbbc to ‘justify’ the injustifiable & the world must not learn to live with it
to live with it as we live with the brutality of the israeli occupying army in palestine – we create historical problems that are impossible to resolve & we’ leave the resolving to generations that can ill afford it
the rapaciousness of america wounds the world & the wound is so large today – that its threatens to enevelop us all
“but you & i, we’ve been through that, and this is not our fate,
so let us not speak falsely now, the hour is getting late” bob dylan
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 8 2004 19:13 utc | 24

According to Raed , and for sure not coincidently, tonight, the night Fallujah is attacked, is Laylat Al-Qadr the most holy day/night in the Muslim year.

In the last ten days of Ramadhaan, there is Laylat Al-Qadr (the Night of Revelation) in which every precise matter of wisdom is made distinct and all events of the coming year are decreed. It is on this night that angels descend from the heavens and blessings become abundant. Whoever prays its nights, believing in it, and hoping for its reward from Allaah, Allaah will forgive all his previous sins. Whoever misses this night and deprives himself of its good; he is to blame. Allaah did not specify its order among the ten nights so that people may exert their utmost efforts during all ten days in worship, performing optional night prayer, reciting the Holy Qur’aan and doing righteous deeds. This is also a means of distinction between those who are active in devotion and those who are not.

So, seek the reward of Laylat Al-Qadr by doing good deeds consistently and sincerely. Ask Allaah for a share of His reward and to protect you from coming out of Ramadhaan empty-handed.

Allaah said which means, “Indeed, We sent it (i.e. the Qur’aan) down in the Night of Decree. And what can make you know what is the Night of Decree? The Night of Decree is better than a thousand months. The angels and the Spirit (i.e. Gabriel) descend therein by permission of their Lord for every matter. Peace it is until the emergence of dawn.” (Al-Qadr: 1-5).

1,300,000,000 muslim people around the world will note that the US attacks Fallujah on this very special date.

Posted by: b | Nov 8 2004 19:38 utc | 25

And what these soldiers, who smear the images of God all over themselves like some talisman, will find out when the bullets fly — is truely and factually a God that will turn his is head with profound indifference to their plight. A God that will not intervene with divine mercy seperating the good from the evil, the dying from those that should live. No, they will instead witness slow death, instant death, any and all kinds of death, an agonizing meat grinder that will seperate only by the laws of chance and dumb luck. Yes, and they may wonder, as those that go on living must do, why it was not themselves who lay there watching there own blood soak into to some sandy soil so far away from their home, and call out for their mother one final time. And so, their God is on my side God will have forsaken their own image of him, and will have instead left them, those who survive, with the invisible bullet of un — faith, of faith belied, lodged someplace in their mind. And this invisible bullet will do its killing and wounding long after all battles fall silent and provide culture with a haunting at its core — a haunting whose ready atidote is only more and more of the medicine of its own making — religion and patriotism.

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 8 2004 20:08 utc | 26

The Unfair Witness has lots of information on Iraq. Not pretty at all.

Posted by: Fran | Nov 8 2004 20:22 utc | 27

And I should also add, that all those people who our boys will so efficiently kill with their so well thought out machinery, no, they will not fully and completely be killed at the moment of their deaths. There will be this lingering vestage of those that die that will take up residence within the mind of those that do the killing, as a shadow wonderment of their lifes potential and history that ride parallel with ones own asperations. And so we add yet one more layer of guilt sediment to our collective consciousness, a sort of slow progressive suffocation in the name of victory.

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 8 2004 20:38 utc | 28

@RG 140PM:
A translation into English would be good. My French isn’t that good, but better anyway than Babelfish, which handles only 150 words at a time.
Anybody know of any good free translation software?

Posted by: FlashHarry | Nov 8 2004 20:44 utc | 29

you can enter the URL for that thread in the babel fish translator, and not get your ears slimey

Posted by: b real | Nov 8 2004 20:46 utc | 30

anna missed
the only accurate description i have read for a long time to explain fundamentally what it is to be under fire
yet the false theology enunciated by the cockless commentators of cnnfoxbbc including the cockless commander in chief, john simpson – will regard, as pat often does – the erotic power of the war machine as if was not sperated from such things as skin, bones, brains, muscles & souls
suggest strongly the link fran gave – has photographs of the new management of the hospital in fallujah & how modern medicene should be conducted under the good god’s guise
they do not realise the city is now full of martyrs & the resistance will move to other foci as it did in vietnam leading up to & after the tet offensive of 1968
but after all the americans are playing out some publicity exercise with the complicity of their willing & unwilling accomplices in what passes for a ‘free’ press. in any decent culture they ought to be ashamed of themselves but they will not be until they have wallowed deeply in their own filth & complete absence of any form of humanity
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 8 2004 20:52 utc | 31

Something bigger than Falluja is upcoming:
Largest ever military exercise to be held in western, southern Iran

Kermanshah, Nov 8, IRNA — The largest ever military exercise of the Army of the Islamic Republic will be carried out in western Iran, Commander of Ground Forces of the Army Brigadier General Nasser Armanfar said on Monday.
Speaking at a ceremony to introduce new commander of the 81st armoured division of Kermanshah province, he said that the military exercise has been designed as a deterrence to any threat across the provinces of Kermanshah, Ilam and Khuzestan.
“In the exercise dubbed ‘Followers of Velayat: Supreme Jurisprudent’ some 12 divisions of the Army, four bases of the Aviation Service of the Ground Forces and the Artillery unit will take part,” he said.

Then there is this: `Chatter’ hints of strike on Iran’s nuclear sites by Knight Ridder and in the local paper of Fort Wayne with a huge military readership.

Posted by: b | Nov 8 2004 21:28 utc | 32

b
as always – your links are very useful

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 8 2004 21:39 utc | 33

b, giap and all here. It’s all about OIL. If Rwanda had oil,,,,,,,,,,,, we’d be talking about Rwanda………. and Zimbabwe would be gearing up with Nuclear weapons.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 8 2004 21:50 utc | 34

@ x: I appreciate your insightful comments and observations about biblical texts and christianity too. I read some of your comments at work today, but had to wait til I got home to post this.
Re Iran: Do our military planners think that they can just send the air force over and bomb the hell out of things without any repercussion? Did it ever occur to them that, unlike Iraq, Iran actually has a functioning air force too?

Posted by: maxcrat | Nov 9 2004 0:55 utc | 35

Old church camp tune running through my head:
“And they’ll know we are Xtians by our guns, by our guns,
Yes, they’ll kno-ow we are Xtians by our guns.”
Different topic, but following Annie’s lead and posting and forwarding everywhere I can, can one hope that exceptionally high traffic is why I can’t get to http://www.blackboxvoting.org, except by loading the Google cached page?

Posted by: catlady | Nov 9 2004 3:27 utc | 36

I’ve posted this elsewhere, but it seems appropriate here, too.
James, Chapter 1
.26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
.27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
The photograph in the main post is an abomination of religion, but then I tend towards the Godwinian view that the soldier is a murderer. I know this is a problem for all those former servicepeople who frequent this site (or at least I know that some did frequent Billmon’s site), but in essence, they shouldn’t deny that war means killing people until one government is ready to treat.
Now that the Democrats have lost the election, can we stop with the rah-rah, we support our troops line? Not that I have any particular animus against the individual members of the US arms forces, but I disagree with the policy they have been sent to enforce, and I disagree with the most effective means they have to enforce that policy. I feel sorry for what war does to our troops. That’s as close as I can come to the yellow ribbon.
(Sorry about the rant from a longtime lurker.)

Posted by: Jackmormon | Nov 9 2004 3:29 utc | 37

Bill O’reilly just now: “fighting in fallujah but it looks like zarqawi has escaped.”
I go get my haircut today, and the barber-lady says with stern concern: “I hope they get that zarqawi.”
amazing the velocity these devil words circulate through the American Mind.

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 9 2004 4:00 utc | 38

Catlady, I too have been posting and forwarding. It is good to hear that you are all over this. I was able to get onto blackbox and Bev’s post yesterday was:

BREAKING — SUNDAY Nov. 7 2004: Freedom of Information requests at http://www.blackboxvoting.org have unearthed two Ciber certification reports indicating that security and tamperability was NOT TESTED and that several state elections directors, a secretary of state, and computer consultant Dr. Britain Williams signed off on the report anyway, certifying it.

Obviously, this does not necessarily prove fraud, but does establish the incidences where the system was not secure.
Also, on Kos today there is a diary posted about the first mainstream mention by Keith Olbermann on MSNBC. As I no longer have cable and did not see the show, here is the main post for the diary:

Olbermann comes through
by dark1p
Mon Nov 8th, 2004 at 17:55:42 PST
Keith Olbermann did as he promised on his blog yesterday. He is the first TV newsperson to cover the peculiarities and possible fraud involved in the election.
Keith’s entire approach was reasonable but justifiably skeptical of officialdom. He gave a rundown of what are familiar stories to Kos readers–an extra 4000 votes for Bush here, an extra 50,000 over the total of all registered voters there. He talked with the (very young) Cincinnatti reporter who broke the story about the ‘secret vote count’, ostensibly carried out in a locked down state due to a high terror alert for that county, as supposedly conveyed by the director of the FBI in a face to face meeting with county officials! The rest of the state was under a hightened but somewhat lower alert than Williams County.
Keith also interviewed Rep. Conyers of Michigan, who was the first signer of both requests now in front of the GAO for an investigation into the efficacy of various electronic voting machines, including, I believe he said, optical scanning systems. Conyers was stumbling and halting, and appeared either a bit tired or perhaps just trying to be very careful not to use the ‘fr–d’ word, which Olbermann had no trouble using (as in ‘possible fraud’).
KO also ran through the Rep/Dem presidential votes in five heavily Dem Florida counties. Of course, we’ve heard the story that these are Dixiecrats who are registered Dems for local reasons but vote Repub in national contest. Keith didn’t go there, but instead compared the vote totals to those counties that didn’t use optical systems and pointed out that there was no such wild discripancy in those Florida counties.

and this is the url if you want to read the over 200+ comments – http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/8/205542/755

Posted by: conchita | Nov 9 2004 4:15 utc | 39

@Rgiap, mon cher do try to remember that more than half the population is “cockless” — if that’s an insult, then… well, you see the problem.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 9 2004 5:49 utc | 40

Thanks to all for a very interesting thread,
in particular to DeAnander for the link to Marc Ellis,
and to b for the Knight-Rider link. With regard to the latter, I found the author’s comment that Jack Straw’s
exclusion of military action against Iran was aimed at the U.S. to be a rare and praiseworthy bit of “reportorial comment” in a news article. Unfortunately,
I suspect we’ll soon see that Israel trumps Britain at
the Washington power-bridge table. For Sharon the Iran
nuclear program is a clear and present danger. Moreover, he has Begin’s precedent to cite, and can be sure of Bush’s support. Just how extensive the American cooperation will be remains to be seen, but
“chatter” would indicate more than a Reaganesque “Boys will be boys” after-the-fact exoneration.

Posted by: Hannah K. O’Luthon | Nov 9 2004 8:58 utc | 41

Hi again all. Thanks everybody for your comments. For those further interested in the religious debate among churches, theologians, etc. on these issues, here’s a petition to read.
Confessing Christ in a World of Violence
Note many of the signatories are from Pentecostal, Baptist, Evangelical, etc. backgrounds. None of these categies are monoliths.)

Posted by: x | Nov 9 2004 14:22 utc | 42

@ Jackmormon above: I stripped all bumper stickers except the one that says: “How many lives per gallon?” I figure that covers the waterfront and gives support and reproach at the same time.
While they last.

Posted by: beq | Nov 9 2004 14:47 utc | 43

Hackworth is calling for military heads to roll at the Pentagon

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 9 2004 16:44 utc | 44

Someone sent me this snip at the end of an email today. It’s an old item, but to be filed under the category of religion and its perceptions, and who shouts the loudest and what goes unheard under the din of the zealots and the warmongers…
31 JULY 2003, GAZA — A dead Palestinian boy saved the lives of four Israeli children -including two Jews – after his mother donated his organs, in a new Palestinian humanitarian gesture towards Israelis. Waleed Ouda fell off his house in the vicinity of Nablus 10 days ago, to be rushed to a nearby hospital – where modest medical capabilities were not enough to save his life. The 11-year-old boy was then referred to Schneider Children’s Hospital in the Israeli city of Petah Tikva, where death had the final say on Tuesday, July 29. His family authorized the donation his organs after consulting the Mufti, with a perceived hope for values of life and peace.

Posted by: x | Nov 9 2004 19:42 utc | 45

2 Wisconsin-based Marines die In Iraq
Tulsa Marine killed In Iraq
DeForest Marine killed In Iraq
Cowpens Marine killed in Iraq
Two Illinois Marines killed in Iraq
Two Metro area soldiers killed in Iraq
Marine from Vancouver killed in Iraq
New York soldier killed in Iraq
Lexington Marine killed near Fallujah
North Dakota soldier killed in Iraq
Pendleton Marine killed By hostile fire in Iraq
Marine from the Ozarks dies in Iraq
Southland Marine killed In Iraq
Marine from Belvidere killed in Iraq
Arizona Marine killed In Iraq
Williston Guard soldier killed in Iraq
Soldier from Eufaula killed in Baghdad
Soldier killed in Iraq is buried in Indianapolis
Soldier killed in Iraq remembered in Bennettsville
Slain Marine laid to rest in Brighton
Sad rites for Long Island Marine
Marine killed In Iraq laid to rest in Plymouth
Colorado Marine buried in Northglenn
Hamilton soldier to be buried Thursday
Funeral plans made for two Marines from Clovis killed in Iraq
A 9-year-old Iraqi girl recovers from a skull fracture and two broken legs in the 31st Combat Support Hospital in Baghdad, November 9th 2004, as hospital staff x-ray a Marine injured in Fallujah in the background. A U.S. Army Bradley fighting vehicle crashed into her family’s car, according to her parents
Dying in Iraq – US Army Nurse supervisor Patrick McAndrew tries to save the life of an American soldier by giving him CPR upon arrival to a military hospital in Baghdad, November 9th 2004. The soldier was later pronounced dead from his wounds suffered in a Baghdad firefight with insurgents
US Army Nurse supervisor Patrick McAndrew tries to save the life of an American soldier by giving him CPR upon arrival at a military hospital in Baghdad, Tuesday, November 9th 2004 but the soldier died
US Army Chaplain Cpt. Daoud Agbere, right, a Muslim priest (sic), prays for an American soldier after he was pronounced dead upon arrival to a military hospital in Baghdad, November 9th 2004, despite the efforts of Army Nurse supervisor, Patrick McAndrew, left, to revive him. The soldier was fatally wounded in a Baghdad firefight
Injured US Marines, Falluja, November 9th 2004

Posted by: Anonymous | Nov 10 2004 2:25 utc | 46