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November 2, 2004
Election Thread

The best endorsement for this election is by Riverbend.
The best reason to vote is Abu Ghraib.
The best apparel for voting is a black hoodie.
The best black humor on choices is by Woody Allen:

“More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.”

The best economy insight:

I was warmly embraced by our long steadfast allies, with a compassion and sincerity that deeply touched me. Their hearts were open and caring. Their home was my home.

That spirit has been squandered. Americans are at odds with one another, with a deep and worrisome intensity. And the world sees us in a stark, adversarial light. The cynics say this is just politics — that such divisiveness is the norm, especially during times of war. I beg to differ. Today, polarization is playing on the character of America — in the end, any nation’s most precious asset. Sadly, that character is now at risk, both at home and abroad. As dawn breaks the day after tomorrow, that will be the first thing on my mind.

Stephen Roach

Posted by b on November 2, 2004 at 09:39 UTC | Permalink
Comments

wasn’t suggesting it, but i am worried about it. if this element is so brazen about election theft and dirty tricks, who knows where it’ll end…

Posted by: b real | Nov 3 2004 5:55 utc | 101

PBS calls MN for Kerry (no surprises there — MN called for Bush would again be too flagrant fraud to go unchallenged). People standing in line until wee hours to vote, un-effing-believable, totally Third World tinpot pseudorepublic. I was thinking that only Walt Whitman’s verse could weep with sufficient drama and feeling over what America is becoming… we need a new Whitman for this brave new world of ours.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 5:58 utc | 102

MSNBC just called Ohio for Bush
jj- been surfing the tv from pbs to cbs to cnn to msnibc – continous discussion of how the exit polling was very pro kerry – they said “sweep” several times which I take to mean an easy over 270 as opposed to a landslide – when the talking heads are chatting while waiting for ohio they keep bringing up the weirdness of the exit polls saying kerry had the election and the results being so different. msnbc did a lot on how anxious bush looked all day because of this. no one has said “gee this means it was stolen” instead they are saying things like “exit polls are the new vns” – they are looking for the problem in the exit polling instead of in the results as reported.

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:00 utc | 103

The majors are chiming in — calling OH for Bush. That puts us at electoral K206 B266 with only 66 left to fight over, looking very bad unless either FL or OH is challenged and recounted, or the provos and absentees prove decisive. Is anyone keeping track of the actual numbers by state? I’m just watching the SCLM calls and electoral tallies. Stupid system really (that’s what I think every time we go through this) — IRV and no electoral college wd be so much more sensible.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 6:04 utc | 104

Not to be redundent, but it’s the religion thing.

Posted by: anna missed | Nov 3 2004 6:05 utc | 105

Cheney’s motorcade is in motion – bush’s in ready, photogs called into white house private quarters … looks like Bush is about to claim victory
the early claim by repugs on the difference between exit polls and actual vote sure seems like setup … (repetitive thought)
real test is whether Kerry will stand up or cave … people are still voting in Ohio dammit!

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:06 utc | 106

Where are the OSCE observers when you actually need them?!

Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 3 2004 6:10 utc | 107

Goddamn it… Bush’s still got a 2 percentage point lead with 90% of the districts counted in OH, and a 5 point lead in NM, with 82% counted, enough to put him over the top…must have faith, must have faith.

Posted by: Harrow | Nov 3 2004 6:18 utc | 108

What a mess! Well, I have to go to work now, but my compassion is with does of you Americans who fought for a change. I know it might still be possible, not the landslide (great vision Jérôme, am very sorry it didn’t come to pass) but maybe just a win.

Posted by: Fran | Nov 3 2004 6:21 utc | 109

OSCE this morning discussed how dreadful they already thought the election process was –
CNN is not calling Ohio coz the dems are saying when vote from machines is counted, they’ll be within 50,000 and that there are 250,000 provisional votes still out there
from a friend in ohio:
“people are still voting Cause they got their foot in the door prior to 7:30.
Most had a 2-3 hour wait, some had up to 5 hour waits.
PLUS the mess from machines not working (currently being denied – HA)
PLUS not enough machines per precinct (we only had 3, never had only3 before)
Honestly, it has never been this difficult to vote here before and
lots of people are saying they won’t ever do it again.  Too much
hassle, standing in the rain for hours….not worth it.
OH, and my friend was told at her precinct they only get 5 minutes tovote and you’re outta there.
Damn crooked voting. 
I’m not gonna get over this for a LONG time. “

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:21 utc | 110

OSCE this morning discussed how dreadful they already thought the election process was – less access for monitors than in Kazhakstan
CNN is not calling Ohio coz the dems are saying when vote from machines is counted, they’ll be within 50,000 and that there are 250,000 provisional votes still out there
from a friend in ohio:
“people are still voting Cause they got their foot in the door prior to 7:30.
Most had a 2-3 hour wait, some had up to 5 hour waits.
PLUS the mess from machines not working (currently being denied – HA)
PLUS not enough machines per precinct (we only had 3, never had only3 before)
Honestly, it has never been this difficult to vote here before and
lots of people are saying they won’t ever do it again. Too much
hassle, standing in the rain for hours….not worth it.
OH, and my friend was told at her precinct they only get 5 minutes tovote and you’re outta there.
Damn crooked voting.
I’m not gonna get over this for a LONG time.”

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:22 utc | 111

OSCE this morning discussed how dreadful they already thought the election process was – less access for monitors than in Kazhakstan
CNN is not calling Ohio coz the dems are saying when vote from machines is counted, they’ll be within 50,000 and that there are 250,000 provisional votes still out there
from a friend in ohio:
“people are still voting Cause they got their foot in the door prior to 7:30.
Most had a 2-3 hour wait, some had up to 5 hour waits.
PLUS the mess from machines not working (currently being denied – HA)
PLUS not enough machines per precinct (we only had 3, never had only3 before)
Honestly, it has never been this difficult to vote here before and
lots of people are saying they won’t ever do it again. Too much
hassle, standing in the rain for hours….not worth it.
OH, and my friend was told at her precinct they only get 5 minutes tovote and you’re outta there.
Damn crooked voting.
I’m not gonna get over this for a LONG time.”

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:23 utc | 112

sorry – should no do links when I’m this tired and angry

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:24 utc | 113

Looks like it’s all over…they even stop USA TV program which we had all afternoon.
I prepared my self for this after Australian election so I am not in shock.

Posted by: vbo | Nov 3 2004 6:25 utc | 114

Kerry’s people are not conceeding Ohio …say not all votes counted and when counted they will win Ohio – at least they have backbone – now bushie’s photogs are on hold
still hope?

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:31 utc | 115

Juan Cole:

Given the talk in Washington about whether it is possible to reform the Arab world, I found the discussion this evening on al-Jazeera amusing.
They had an Iraqi analyst on, who said that if there wasn’t a clear break for one of the candidates in the next few hours, the whole process was likely to go into the hands of the lawyers and would be decided in the courts.
The al-Jazeera anchor asked, “Do you believe the American electoral system can be reformed?”
The Iraqi analyst said he thought the problem lay in the dependence on an electoral college rather than direct democracy.
This is getting embarrassing folks.

Yup. And wearying.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 6:33 utc | 116

Kerry shows fight? Well he damn well should, there’s been enough dirty biz in OH for several Tarantino flicks.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 6:34 utc | 117

thanks, Siun, for the clarification.
I have Air America on in background. Kerry’s people very disturbed….results against all their polling.
I think our job is TO ABOLUTELY INSIST THAT KERRY NOT CONCEDE. The Kerry people know they stole it, isn’t it our job to Stand up & Say NOOOOOOO – if we’ll take it, they will.
This is really terrifying, but what I expected. It always flabbergasted me that Dems. would allow these “by any means necessary fascists” run an election w/no paper ballots. It was so obvious that they learned last time in Fla. to leave no crumbs behind. It was the Repugs. in Congress that refused to allow a bill out of committee that would have required paper. Even that bill was insufficient. “Paper trail” won’t do it – if we use computers, it must be only to print a paper ballot.
Keep an eye on Corrente’s blog. He has post up in which he said according to his analysis, there was a systematic shifting of 2% of the vote. Bev Harris is goig to file a FOIA for the Audit Logs in the morning.
SIUN, PUT ON AIR AMERICA IF YOU CAN – OHIO IS NOT OVER. If Bush lead in Ohio <150K w/100% precincts counted, provisional ballots can cover it.

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 6:40 utc | 118

JJ – still hope …
sec of state of ohio (repug) says there may be 250,000 provisionals out still plus military vote – provisionals not counted until 11 days from now – he was not willing to be at least a public thief …
agree on pressure on kerry to not give in …
just got email from work contact in Singapore saying their whole office is nervously watching what’s happening …
see you all in am – going to lie down and follow on radio … gotta keep our energy stocked for the battles ahead!
goodnight friends …

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:49 utc | 119

CNN has put ohio “green” as too close to call
… really gonna lie down now

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 6:53 utc | 120

Woo hoo. OH has been “uncalled” by several of the majors, the electoral call is back to only 249 for the Shrub from 266 an hour or so back. OH and FL look like the war zone; MI not yet called. WI not yet called. Rats I was hoping to go to bed (depressed but resolved) but it looks like we’re still in limbo.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 6:54 utc | 121

******IMPT. & EXCITING NEWS***********
Siun, sorry I just missed you. A Must Read Post on Corrente/democraticunderground.com. Turns out that exit polling correlated w/results everywhere except FLORIDA AND DUH..DUH..FLORIDA….
Maybe we should push for hand done ballots to be recast by those who voted today in those 2 states. The more we demand the more we get!!!

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 6:59 utc | 122

@DeAnander – John Nicols just on Air America from Madison(Wisconsin). He said it went Kerry.
CNN just called Ohio – GREEN – as opposed to Green! – To Close to Call.

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 7:01 utc | 123

Juan: Kerry could still win, but it won’t be easy. Bush has a very small lead in Ohio, of about 100,000, at 1:40 am. But the Democrats maintain that there are over 200,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted, and that they could make up the difference.
An Ohio official on CNN is saying that the provisional ballots won’t be counted for 11 days… we should all just go to bed.
Juan points out that the Repubs still have a solid majority in the Congress and possibly the popular vote, so even if the EC puts Kerry in the White House he’s in a dismal position. I wonder if the conservatives who traditionally defend and praise the EC system will sing a different tune if it puts “the wrong guy” in power?

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:01 utc | 124

What’s with MI still uncalled?

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:03 utc | 125

Iowa can´t count because scanner machines broken down (CNN). New machines tomorrow. This is so crazy.

Posted by: b | Nov 3 2004 7:03 utc | 126

First, this has been stolen, period.
Second, open rebellion and civil war are honorable alternatives to a 2nd mandate of W.
Last, well, things will soon get ugly for Americans abroad if Bush gets it and GOP keeps control of both houses. It basically means that the US people approve of them, and accepts the collective responsibility (read: collective guilt) of what happened and will happen. In which case, it also means OBL was right in his last message to say the US people should be hold accountable.
You have no friggin idea of what will happen if this shit is allowed to pass, but let me tell you that your worst fears are probably a serious understatement.
Bush has never been a legitimate president and will never be.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 3 2004 7:04 utc | 127

jj – caught that as I was sending email to office saying … something about late in morning
new note from my ohio friends ”
Did you hear about the students at Kenyan College who refused the e-vote machines because the manufacturer made LARGE Republicandonations and DEMANDED paper ballots?  They’re the ones that areexpected to be casting the last votes…at 3 am! GO KENYON!

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 7:07 utc | 128

Yes very interesting that OH and FL are the only two states where called results and counted (so far) ballots (they tell us) are so contradictory with exit polls — *and* both states with a huge electoral weight, desirable prizes, *and* states not so safe for Kerry that cheating is totally outrageous and unbelievable, a shadow of doubt possible. I’m with the poster at DU on this, and it doesn’t take a tinfoil hat. Here’s where my friends at voteprotect come into the picture. Their dbase shows over 3000 reported incidents of irregularity from FL and about 1700 from OH (and that’s with data entry still only about half complete). The reporting rate is almost certainly lower than real incidence rate, as not every intimidated, misinformed or glitched voter knows whom to call or has the stubbornness to press a complaint. Their work on voting machine fraud and irregular procedures may become crucial in the next few days.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:10 utc | 129

@ Clueless
I certainly share your frustration, I went to bed late last night with Kerry seemingly in the lead. I wake up this morning and see the whole freakin map colored red.
One thing you should keep in mind before making very serious charges, no one has ever lost money underestimating the US electorate.

Posted by: Dan of Steele | Nov 3 2004 7:13 utc | 130

Edwards is going to speak soon … guess I have to stay up now

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 7:13 utc | 131

Michigan and Wisconsin still uncalled… what’s with that?

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:14 utc | 132

On C-Span they have a pretty good map
Iowa is leaning Bush, as are NV and NM. Ohio is vital!

Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 3 2004 7:20 utc | 133

no shame! repug commentators saying “but bush is ahead in the popular vote so kerry can’t fight this for long” … another glass of kafka anyone?

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 7:27 utc | 134

I have an idea. CA-OR-WA all solidly Kerry. let’s secede.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:27 utc | 135

MI for Kerry per CNN
Edwards – we will fight for every vote

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 7:31 utc | 136

The majors awarding MI to Kerry one by one. About time. [Mikey (Moore) would die of shame if MI went Bush.]
WI still uncalled. why?

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:33 utc | 137

Great election map here from the Beeb. Turns out Wisconsis still counting… Kerry ahead by a very, very narrow margin.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:36 utc | 138

Hawaii – Kerry per CNN
Kerry leading WI
Nev & NM – if same as 2000, you have Bush 254, Kerry 257
Ohio and Iowa won’t be counted tonight
no one can will tonight acc to cnn folks

Posted by: Siun | Nov 3 2004 7:37 utc | 139

NV still counting, Bush ahead at this moment, but only about 65 pct counted.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 7:39 utc | 140

I have an idea. CA-OR-WA all solidly Kerry. let’s secede.
Posted by: DeAnander
There’s a plan I could get behind, since I live in WA.

Posted by: sukabi | Nov 3 2004 8:00 utc | 141

Here’s why the college kids you wrote of, Siun, are waiting so long. Ambitious Repug running things in Ohio only gave each precinct 12 provisional ballots. Everyone had choice of riggable computers, giving up, or waiting and waiting and waiting…..
DON’T WE PUSH THEM TO REDO FLORIDA, as probability large it was fraudulent? Clearly Kerry won it.
@DeAnander, you said it all. Perhaps it’s the 3rd law of Computers (after GIGO & Murphy’s Laws): Repug candidate cannot lose on Repug owned computers.
Anyone else worried that w/all the focus on Pres., they can & undoubtedly did fix lesser races w/impunity. Hell, as long as they control Congress it scarecely matters who’s in WH -Exhibit A -> Clinton’s 2nd term. Oh, I forgot, he lied. Does anyone believe this…..
Air America – Funny Dan Rather fallout from last faux pas….He’s saying “Anything Can Happen”! Pay back time, assholes.

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 8:08 utc | 142

At Dalythoughts:
Kerry had Carville poll reactions to Bin Laden and how Kerry handled it. Unlike others, I saw no problem with this. Kerry did give a reaction, live, on the spot, when hit with the news. Knowing or trying to figure out the best way to play something, as long as it is not completely at odds with who you are, is not a bad thing. And Kerry’s final stance and the one he adopted on the spot were not far apart.
Kerry will be polling to find out how people will react to going the full Florida on Ohio, with a margin of over 100,000 votes.
If he thinks the support is there to fight on, he’ll fight on.
We won’t see this poll. But we will hear its result loud and clear.
Posted under: US President Ohio Media Political Strategy by Gerry @ 2:50 am, 11/03/2004

Posted by: Pat | Nov 3 2004 8:13 utc | 143

what astounds me as I go over the BBC map state by state is the closeness of the race. even in states where Kerry is “safe” the point spread is so small! which in turn means that some large percentage of people in every state support BushCo? that truly is scary. in some states where Bush is “safe” the point spread is further, over 60 pct for BushCo. I haven’t seen any state yet where Nader’s pathetic few votes would have made any difference.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 8:16 utc | 144

Hell, they should go “full Florida” over Florida also. Just checked CSPAN map which Jerome happily linked for us. Pray the Bastards don’t fix Mich. or Wis. overnight. If not, dollars to doughnuts KERRY WON. ENOUGH OF THEM FOREVER

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 8:20 utc | 145

Sam Smith over at prorev is ready to call it a funeral, quoting Jefferson: From the conclusion of this war we shall be going downhill. It will not be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves save in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. The shackles, therefore . . . will be made heavier and heavier, till our rights shall revive or expire in a convulsion.
Says Sam, “As of 2 AM, it looked likely that voters had ratified the end of the First American Republic. It was nice while it lasted[…]”
Gary Leupp has some interesting thoughts on the contradictions of democracy or what happens when the popular vote goes against all prediction…
I’m not sure it’s a funeral yet but it sure looks like a mess.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 8:21 utc | 146

this cannot be happening,did they really sell this election on ..fear.fear.fear.homo’s.fear.fear.fear……..?

Posted by: onzaga | Nov 3 2004 8:22 utc | 147

@onzaga: tried and true tactic. has worked many times in many countries. fear fear fear watch-the-birdie fear fear fear while-we-pick-your-pocket fear fear fear!

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 8:25 utc | 148

Doing my small part to cheer you up.
Really.

Posted by: Pat | Nov 3 2004 8:28 utc | 149

More Cheer – The Nation is Getting Organized. Go to NOV3.US to sign pledge to prevent another stolen election. Also United for peace & justice has a website w/info. Between them they will have info. on where tomorrow’s actions are in Every City. (Soros is really Big on This – in fact, he’s used this tactic to bring down legally elected governments. I’m really ambivalent – he’s one dangerous hombre & has none of our best interests at heart.)
Meanwhile, as we tuck in, we must pray they don’t steal Mich. or Wisc. overnight. If not, it’s ours. The Repug party’s in an uproar. I don’t see James Baker running the show this time.

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 8:38 utc | 150

okay i am to old to fight,i want to live my last 10yrs in peace,my landlord (and friend) owns a house on a mountain in new zealand and i live on disability,if i sold everything i could get a plane ticket and a few thousand,how much does it cost to live in poverty in new z?
i am disheartened and ashamed are we really this ignorant?

Posted by: onzaga | Nov 3 2004 8:46 utc | 151

HAPPIER TIMES IN SIGHT……..
(From kerry website:)
Statement from Kerry Campaign Manager Mary Beth Cahill on Ohio
For Immediate Release
Boston, MA – Kerry-Edwards campaign manager Mary Beth Cahill released the following statement:
“The vote count in Ohio has not been completed. There are more than 250,000 remaining votes to be counted. We believe when they are, John Kerry will win Ohio.”
FASTEN YOUR SEAT BELTS – Mich. & Minn. both Kerry. Victory around the corner – just awaiting Wisc. & Ohio!!

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 8:49 utc | 152

pat, thanks for being here and not being..well you know,somehow it makes me feel good to see you.

Posted by: onzaga | Nov 3 2004 8:54 utc | 153

In the end, my mother did vote for Bush, determined to spare a potential Democratic administration the debacle of Iraq – something she’d deliberated over for months. I do believe it’s the first time she’s ever voted R for Pres.

Posted by: Pat | Nov 3 2004 8:59 utc | 154

I take it back. NM is close enough for Nader votes to make a difference.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 9:02 utc | 155

Probably the last time she’ll vote that way, too.

Posted by: Pat | Nov 3 2004 9:03 utc | 156

So Pat, Mom’s reasoning was “Bush got us into this mess, why should a Dem President have to clean up after him?” or something along those lines? interesting…

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 9:07 utc | 157

She doesn’t see a happy ending to Iraq, De. And she wants the unhappy ending squarely in the lap of this adiministration.

Posted by: Pat | Nov 3 2004 9:11 utc | 158

actually when it was so close all night i also had snatches of well you won it you deserve it,you have been saved from every mistake you’ve ever made kiss my ass. but we have to live with this. how bout that succeed thing?

Posted by: onzaga | Nov 3 2004 9:13 utc | 159

I don’t see any possible happy ending to Iraq either, and your Mom has a point in suggesting that the eventual, inevitable day of reckoning should come home to roost on them as done it. OTOH I don’t see any happy endings for anyone, with 4 more years of BushCo mismanagement of every American resource, from natural to fiscal to the bodies and souls of our troops… perhaps what’s karmically just involves too much disaster for too many people. Scott Ritter’s recent op/ed goes right to the heart of the matter… well it’s the wee hours here on the Blue Coast and I’m too tired to think, strategically or otherwise… gonna call it a night. I think the people who just won this election are the Chinese: Americans just handed the 21st century to them.

Posted by: DeAnander | Nov 3 2004 9:23 utc | 160

Just heard the Gangsta is going to declare himself the Winner bet. now & 5 am (PST).

Posted by: jj | Nov 3 2004 9:28 utc | 161

Blind Misery listen to vbo (and me..) and forget Australia. Cross it off.
If you have some cash you should be OK. A fresh thread on the Whiskey Annex might be a good idea. Or here.
I’ve always been convinced Bush would win. I’m so sorry. I have to go to work. My thoughts are with you.

Posted by: Blackie | Nov 3 2004 9:32 utc | 162

sorry for rambling, fell off more than one wagon tonight.maybe i should chuck the zoloft and start having sex again.

Posted by: onzaga | Nov 3 2004 9:42 utc | 163

From the Corner at NRO:
“STATISTICALLY INSURMOUTABLE” [KJL]
Card says re Ohio. “President Bush has won in the state of Ohio.” Again, then why Mr. Card?
Posted at 05:42 AM
SO [KJL]
Andy Card is declaring victory.? Weird. Saying it’s a decisive popular vote win.
So why not the president do it?
Posted at 05:41 AM

Posted by: Pat | Nov 3 2004 10:46 utc | 164

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