Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
November 5, 2004
Arafat

(Busy with some personal stuff, so I don´t have time to write things up. If you like to  write something to post, please let me know and I’ll get it up.)

Arafat is dead but kept alive until some political things are sorted out. Helena Cobban has written about him a few days ago: Arafat: a Palestinian tragedy. Ze’ev Schiff, military correspondent for Haaretz thinks that with Arafats death it is Time for an Israeli initiative.

Short of a secular one state solution, I don´t expect any initiative to bring long term peace to palestine. Any ideas how that ever might come about?

Comments

Nobody made a post yet here and I thank you for the Helena Cobban link, it educated me further.
I guess he’s on life support until the Palestinians pick a successor and Sharon agrees to his burial in Jerusalem………………
Interested to hear Jerome’s thoughts on this.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Nov 5 2004 19:45 utc | 1

as i’ve said here before i will not take part in the demonisation of this freedom fighter who has placed his nation at the core of his being all his life
he has done honour to the palestinina cause
there is the same moral authority as exists in nelson mandela but nelson mandela was protected from the ‘bad press’ by being in jail where nelson could be distanced from military operations that the enemy will always call ‘tewwowist’.
the movement for the palestinian people has made many mistakes – some of a grave nature but the centrality of its intentions have always been just.
they were discarded as the iraquis are discarded as if real people are not worthy of our concerns
as i’ve said on numerous occassion the secular & national movement was strong until the americans & israelis sought to sow dissension & to assist in fact & form the islamists – in that sense like a q – hammas & islamic jihad are american constructions because as usual they do not have long term intelligence or comprehension & what they commence has almost always turned intos something monstrous. soo too islamic extremism – they were paranthetic from the 1920’s onward but during & after nasser the americans assisted concretely their development as a counterbalance to panarabism, communism nationalists etc
you reap what you sow
but we are left to deal with the consequences
fuck you
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 5 2004 22:14 utc | 2

sorry, snowed under, no time to comment.
My opinion on Arafat is indirectly summed up in that post.
Sorry, RGiap, I have little respect for a guy who kept his people in misery for so many years just to make himself a “Statesman”. He is no Nelson Mandela.

Posted by: Jérôme | Nov 5 2004 22:39 utc | 3

jérôme
there is for me – in speaking of certain questions – a demand for research & not just opinions
there exists in french four major biographies, in english five or sic & in italian at least two – they are by & large not sympathetic but they portray a leader a little more nuanced than this one person view of history
the context of palestinian nationhood is an incredibly complex question that has its basis something very, very fundamental – the israel state with the assistance of stalin & vyshinsky – was established through the theft of land & the massacring of a people
ever since that moent the movement for the palestinian nation has taken many & varied paths – as i sd before – some of them very ugly indeed – but they cannot be isolated either from context nor from dereliction
arafat is not personally responsible for the fate of his people – he is its most well known representative uniting very diverse elements from the marxist pflp – to the islamic fundamentalist of islamic jihad or hammas
i appreciate that you do not have the time but it seems to me that when we have expertise we should use it – when you are speaking on oil, of energy – you show that – research & comprehension without reducing questions that merit more attention & much more care
i am a hothead my friend but i pay & am obliged to pay attention to detail whether it is knowing what is on the syllabus at west point to knowing who exatly constitutes the palestinian authority
i repeat i will not take part in demonisation of a man who has given more to his people than commentators would like to credit
in these biographies – which i will give you if necessary – never reduce the question to a mere chronicle
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 5 2004 23:08 utc | 4

what are the best bios of arafat?

Posted by: slothrop | Nov 6 2004 0:34 utc | 5

slothrop
do you read in languages other than english?
in english there is the biography by alan hart (sidgwick &jackson- london 1994 revised edition, another by john hirst – that is a good beginning both are long books – i will add to the list later
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 6 2004 1:08 utc | 6

slothrop
here are some others : behind the myth -walker & gowars, another by barry rubin, thomas kiernan
in french there is le sept vies de yasser arafat by christophe boltanski & another yasser arafat, ou le palestine imaginair
ironically there are a number of biographies in hebrew but i do not remember their names – one i think by a journalist named aveny – with a title – my friend, my enemy
they cover the waterfront but they are scholastic or at least there is a minimum of respect for the work they are studying – in any case they are useful – a good mind should be able to deal with the contradictory information
i am just a little tired of facile demonisation – i detest bush with every bone in my body but i put myself through books about him that sometimes seems like defecating on my own body
we do not have to source our material – we are not being refereed but i would like to think that we think enough of each other to do the research that is required to make just comments
if you want more – just ask
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Nov 6 2004 1:31 utc | 7

One rumor in which I have some faith. A good man, Edward Said, a former active member of the PLO’s governing structure, quit the movement in disgust at Arafat’s monopolyzing of power. Said of course continued his fight in his own way, but outside.
Arafat’s leadership in the later years–and i grant you I get much of this info from us–but sometimes also the French–press has been erratic. I do not believe the stories about camp David, or at least I will suspend judgment until some much more objective book has been published. But I have watched as attempts at building civilian Palestian Authority institutions have been undermined: the elected parliamentary leader? the independant treasurer? Arafat’s own treasury being kept in storage out of the country? No wonder Hamas stepped in to provide humanitarian support!
i will not take any pleasure from his death, whenever it happens. But i do not think it is good when one person represents the movement, and when that one person retains his absolute control by virtue of his symbolic value. Nelson Mandela stepped down; that peaceful transfer of power was perhaps his most noble act.
I fear what will happen in Gaza and the West Bank after this passing.

Posted by: nonamerightnow | Nov 6 2004 3:01 utc | 8

we always demonize the freedom fighters after we back them into an impossible corner and destroy all chances for them to grow a sane and good governance … fidel, arafat, chavez … even when you win, we’ll make sure you can’t succeed and then we shout, look how awful …
I will confess to a certain, uninformed, irrational fondness for arafat … just something in his face … now I’ll look up Remembering’s suggested bios

Posted by: Siun | Nov 6 2004 4:43 utc | 9

“advanced forms of biological warfare that can ‘target’ specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.”- PNAC
Any questions?

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 6 2004 13:17 utc | 10

People seem to fail to ask themselves how the Israeli destruction of all infrastructure, social systems, government buildings, healthcare system, education, etc etc in the Palestinian territories could possibly have contributed to the way in which Arafat retained power to himself. Without such institutions being supported and viable, they simply made the job impossible to create a kind of democratic beginning that would have allowed greater distribution of power and a functional civil government that had a better chance of stability, lack of corruption, etc. Chaos was the objective and chaos they have. If they think that will bear fruit that is not destructive to them they live the dreams of tyrants. Purely destructive. What the Palestinians need is support for their civil institutions and their democracy.

Posted by: x | Nov 6 2004 13:40 utc | 11

Uncle: Yep, but the Israelis are in for a major disappointment, since there’s barely any genetic difference between them and the Palestinians. Ironically, this also means that if the neo-cons PNAC guys manage to get their kill-Arab-only virus and try to use it, they’ll wipe out a good deal of the Israeli population as collateral damage. Of course, the Christian fundies of this PNAC club wouldn’t mind it, but the Likudnik part would be pretty pissed off.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Nov 7 2004 3:55 utc | 12

On the radio, about 6 PM Pacific tonight they said Arafat had come out of the coma and had spoken with his doctor. I’m getting that Generalissimo Frederico Franco-feeling… anybody else?

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Nov 7 2004 3:57 utc | 13

Clueless Joe: ROFL (I needed that)
That PNAC blurb sort of reminds me of Schumer saying that the American public would pretty much agree that some forms of torture are useful if they understood it correctly…

Posted by: x | Nov 7 2004 4:03 utc | 14

as far as the lovely idea of genocide as bio warfare, that idea might pose a problem for people in western Europe, like Italy, Spain, France, Belgium…and on to the United States…just to mention a few places that were influenced by the Moor conquest, followed by the Spanish conquest and the intermarriage among various people.

Posted by: fauxreal | Nov 7 2004 4:11 utc | 15

mysterious blood disease I put nothing past these vile powerfreaks…
Remember these are the same types whom tried for years to take out castro…

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Nov 7 2004 6:33 utc | 16

Here is a nice tribute to Arafat from an Israeli.
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-2997192,00.html
Arafat, I wish you full recovery
Yitzhak Frankenthal
Yitzhak Frankenthal, whose son Aryeh Tzvi Frankel was kidnapped and murdered by Hamas in 1994, met tens of times with Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat.
Arafat is sick, and I hope with all my heart that he recovers and leads his people for many more years.
So far I have met with him several tens of times. I met with a charismatic leader, a warm and cordial leader, the first Palestinian leader who recognized Israel as a neighbour, and wanted to make peace with it. Arafat is a leader on the level of Ben-Gurion and George Washington, a leader who is building a nation. He is a leader who knows what is good for his people, he is a leader who does not fold in the face of pressure, and continues with the strength of his spirit to advance toward the goal he set for himself.
Our habit is to hold leaders in contempt, especially leaders of the enemy. We did so with Sadat, the late Assad and now the younger Assad. Every Arab leader who is not prepared to be a Zionist – we scorn them. Indeed, Arafat is not a simple man, but he is mild and courteous, a well-mannered man, a man of honour. In all of the tens of meetings I had with him, he never lied to me. There are leaders in Israel and the world, who passed messages to Arafat through me, and I passed messages from him to them.
I always knew that I was sitting with the enemy. Arafat did not expect me to be a Palestinian. He always knew that I was a religious Zionist patriot who loved Israel, and I knew that he was a Palestinian patriot who loved his people. Over the past ten years I have met with him in different situations, and all too often I met with him while in the grip of deep shame in the face of our behaviour as Israelis.
More than once I heard on the radio or television one or another of our leaders being interviewed telling brazen lies that flew in the face of what I knew not only from Arafat but also from Israeli leaders. More than once I have come across Israeli politicians at the highest level who looked to me like dwarves compared to the personality of Arafat.
It is our habit to hold the Palestinians in contempt.
When I heard ministers talking about Arafat as if he were irrelevant, I knew that those same people who said that he was not relevant would themselves soon be irrelevant and he would continue to be relevant. I knew that those people would not be remembered in history, while Arafat has already made his mark on the pages of the history of humanity.
It is our habit to hold the Palestinians in contempt. To see them as animals in human form and Arafat as the patriarch of the animals. The principal monster. But for all that, my friends, the Arafat that I know is a leader who even today is prepared to make peace with Israel and to live as a good neighbour like in Scandinavia. Arafat wants open borders, he wants mutual respect, he wants a state whose borders were agreed on at the Camp David and Taba talks, with the addition of sovereignty over Temple Mount [the Noble Sanctuary].
Arafat has no problem with the Western Wall remaining in our hands, he has no problem if the Jewish Quarter remains in our hands, he has no problem if the right of return is to the State of Palestine, to Gaza and the West Bank and not to Israel proper. Arafat has no problem with territorial exchanges, and is ready to allow Israel to annex most of the settlements, and in return to receive Israeli territory beside Gaza. Yes, my friends, I am not disclosing anything new. All the prime ministers knew and know the above mentioned facts.
That being the case, what’s going on? What has happened? What do I fear will happen? There is no prime minister who is prepared to be a leader of the stature of Arafat and to say to his people: “that’s the way it has to be”. Arafat did that in ’92, and he could do it even now and sign a peace agreement with a courageous Israeli leader. Arafat saw in Rabin a leader who was ready to lead the way to peace. Rabin’s murder crushed Arafat’s faith that an Israeli leader would rise who could lead the way to compromise and peace.
We need only look at what’s happening now with the right’s opposition to Sharon’s plan to see where we’re headed. Arafat saw all that and knows that there is no leader in Israel. I never claimed that Arafat was a “Righteous Gentile”. But I have claimed that Arafat can lead his people to a peace of the brave with Israel. Yes, Arafat is cunning. Yes, Arafat is not prepared to bend in the face of the Israeli Goliath. And yes, Arafat is the elected leader of the Palestinians who is proud of his people.
Recently, about two months ago, I interviewed Arafat in front of a television camera, and within 18 minutes he answered my questions. I sent a copy of the tape to all the channels. No station was prepared to broadcast the interview in which Arafat talks about all the difficult issues. Israeli arrogance has extracted a high price up to now, and I fear that we will continue to pay it over and over.
Prepared to lead his people to peace with Israel
When Sharon spoke of seven days of absolute quiet, Arafat told me two things – one, even if there are weeks without terror, Sharon will not talk peace – and indeed he was right; and the second thing he said to me was that Sharon should give seven days without occupation and in return receive peace. And in this too Arafat was right.
I remember that I traveled to Oslo at the request of the late Rabin for the Nobel prize ceremony, I received a phone call from a bereft mother who told me that the moment Rabin shakes hands with the abominable Arafat, she would commit suicide, and it would be my fault because I supported Rabin. I asked her where her son was killed, and she said that he was killed in the Yom Kippur war (the October war) in Sinai. I asked her why she did not kill herself when Rabin shook hands with Sadat, and her reply was “how can you compare: one’s a president and the other is a terrorist.” I said to her, give Arafat a state, and he too will be a president and not a terrorist. She was silent.
There are those in Israel who claim that Arafat is corrupt, that he diverted billions to his pocket. That’s just a stupid joke. No leader is more modest than Arafat. In all the years I have known him he has lived a modest and ascetic life. No dazzling wealth and no personal waste. They claim that his people are corrupt, but how can we demand of a man who is not given independence that he controls a police without a polity, a government without governance, the present without a future, motivations without a motor, an orchestra without musicians, music without the ringing of liberty.
The Arafat I know is not a man who bends in the face of the rapacious occupation, but he is a man who is ready to reach a peace of the brave. To my questions he replied more than once that Hamas will join his government the moment there is peace. They will stop fighting Israel. No, he was not prepared to make war on his compatriots on Israel’s behalf, but he believes with all his heart that if he makes peace, Hamas will walk with him hand-in-hand. That’s a real leader.
To my sorrow, Arafat did not know how to play cunning tricks in order to win points with the Israeli public. He is truthful and sincere in his desire to make peace.
I will conclude where I started: Arafat is sick, and I hope with all my heart that he recovers and leads his people for many more years, because indeed Arafat, with his charisma, his personality, can lead his people to peace. For the sake of the Palestinian people and Israel I wish him a full recovery.

Posted by: Bea | Nov 9 2004 3:35 utc | 17