I am quite busy, but also sure there are many things out there that deserve to be spread. Break the silence.
Back to Main
October 5, 2004
Open Thread
Comments
Some good reads
Guardian: The eyes that cannot see beyond Jabaliya and Samarra
And just as Israel’s unbending stance, favouring force over dialogue, threatens a spreading conflict, drawing in Syria and Lebanon, so does an aggressive US policy, confusing power and legitimacy, intensify the risk of an Iraqi fragmentation embroiling Iran, Turkey and other neighbours.
…
On both sides of the divide this dread downward spiral creates a kind of unseeing rage to which all are held hostage: blind in Iraq, eyeless in Gaza.
Salon: The State Department’s extreme makeover
Secretary of State Colin Powell is not staying for a second Bush term. When he goes, the last bulwark against complete neoconservative control of U.S. foreign policy goes with him. The implications are enormous, yet the American electorate appears to be blinded by the Bush campaign’s deliberate manipulations of 9/11.
…
Rubin is now tasked by Perle and Wolfowitz to trash Bremer — which he is dutifully doing in print and media appearances arranged by neocon handler, lecture agent and media booker Eleana Benador. They intend to close the Foggy Bottom door to any aspirations Bremer, a former Foreign Service officer and Kissinger protégé, might have to take over from Powell.
…
The neocons, working in tandem with a similar staff in the office of Prime Minister Sharon of Israel, have a three-part agenda for the first part of Bush’s second term: first, oust Yasser Arafat; second, overthrow the secular Baathist al-Assad dictatorship in Syria; and, third, eliminate, one way or another, Iran’s nuclear facilities.
Observer: US ‘hyping’ Darfur genocide fears
NYT: A Coming Nightmare of Homeownership? Morgenson on Fannie Mae
Posted by: b | Oct 5 2004 11:45 utc | 1
“…the written lies submitted to Congress by George W. Bush to justify invading Iraq constitute a crime easily worthy of prosecution and impeachment.”
Posted by: beq | Oct 5 2004 12:23 utc | 2
It’s the birthday of one of the few writers ever to become the leader of a country, Czech dramatist and president Vaclav Havel, born in Prague (1936). He was born into an affluent family, and as a teenager he watched as his family’s property was seized by the government when Communists took control of the country.
He was prevented from attending college, so he took a job in a chemical company and joined a literary underground society, passing around books that had been banned by the government. In the 1960’s, he wrote a series of absurdist plays, including The Garden Party (1964) and The Memorandum (1965) that attacked the Communist Party, describing the way in which the Communists were ruining the language by introducing all kinds of euphemisms and clichés.
After a brief period of greater freedom in Czechoslovakia during the late 1960’s, Soviet troops invaded and imposed hard-line Communist Party control over the government. Havel’s plays were banned. He was arrested twice, thrown in jail, and then forced to earn a living stacking barrels in a brewery.
He continued writing plays, though, including The Mountain Hotel (1976), about a windowless resort in which vacationers spend all their time remembering and forgetting the same things. He also continued to receive money from the production of his plays abroad. He used the money to buy a Mercedes-Benz which he drove to his job at the brewery every day.
Havel kept protesting the government, refusing to go into exile the way so many other writers and artists in the country did. He said, “The solution to the situation does not lie in leaving it. Fourteen million people can’t just go and leave Czechoslovakia.” He spent the 1980’s in and out of prison, writing plays that he couldn’t see performed in his own country.
In 1989, after another arrest and imprisonment, he was released early because thousands of artists protested to the prime minister. He’d become a national hero. After the collapse of the Communist regime, he helped negotiate the transition to democracy, and in December of 1989, he was elected President, the first non-communist leader of his country since 1948.
Vaclav Havel said, “If you want to see your plays performed the way you wrote them, become President.”
He also said, “The revolution that ended up by me becoming a President is very strange theater. And perhaps I am an actor in a play that isn’t mine.”
He finished his second term and stepped down from power last year.
The playwright Arthur Miller said, “[Vaclav Havel is] the world’s first avant-garde president.”
From today’s Writer’s Almanac.
Posted by: beq | Oct 5 2004 14:15 utc | 3
An opinion from South Africa.
US ‘war on terror’ is unwinnable
Posted by: Fran | Oct 5 2004 14:25 utc | 4
Two more interesting links and then I need to do some other stuff.
Dear Mike, Iraq sucks – Civilian contractors are fleecing taxpayers; US troops don’t have proper equipment; and supposedly liberated Iraqis hate them. After the release of Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore received a flood of letters and emails from disillusioned and angry American soldiers serving in Iraq. Here, in an exclusive extract from his new book, we print a selection
And today’s Krugman:
The Falling Scales
Posted by: Fran | Oct 5 2004 14:37 utc | 5
The new Derrick Jensen book, Welcome to the Machine: Science, Surveillance, and the Culture of Control, co-written w/ George Draffan, has two excerpts available online.
Posted by: b real | Oct 5 2004 14:42 utc | 6
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 5 2004 16:30 utc | 8
If you are interested, a good article on the Polish support for the US and the political consequences is here:
Letter From Poland, by David Ost
People elsewhere argued over whether Iraq really had weapons of mass destruction, but in Poland the calculus was more simple: America requested our help, so we gave it.
[…] “If they said they could topple Saddam and install a democracy, we figured they must know what they’re doing, particularly since they’d been working on it for so long. But it seems we were naïve. It turns out they had no idea what to do with the Shiites, the Kurds, the resistance, the infrastructure. A superpower should be able to do this! That it can’t do it–this changes all our calculations.”
[…]Adam Michnik once quipped that “Poland is more pro-American than America is.” Bush has changed that. Poland has already hinted that it will reduce its Iraq contingent next year; public pressure may force it to do so sooner. What about the future? When I asked Beylin, one of the country’s key opinion-forming journalists, what will happen if a re-elected Bush turns to Poland for help in a new war against Syria or Iran, he visibly recoiled. “We wouldn’t do it. Not this time. If it’s a UN or NATO operation, perhaps. But like Iraq? No, that’s not happening again.”
Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Oct 5 2004 17:08 utc | 9
I guess w won’t be mentioning Poland in any more debacles.
Posted by: beq | Oct 5 2004 17:29 utc | 10
alabama
perhaps i am reading this wrong – perhaps its my state of mind also or perhapse it is the state of my body at this hour but feel yopu are arguing a case(especially with pat) just about the efficacy of this immoral & unjust war in iraq
i understand that the way you question that efficacy is also a reflection in which these criminals treat the armed forces & that that treatment is consistent with the immorality of the war itself
there is no question that this war was never against saddam hussein – there is just too much evidence that implies complicity at a many layered level & for a considerable period of time
this war is against a people & it is consistent with the way the united states has treated third world people for most of this century. it has & does treat them with the utmost contempt & when that is not affective it uses a murderous military force
to our shame, to our considerable shame – the war carried out against latin americans which eduardo galeano has so clearly spoken about in his magisterial texts – in nicaragua, chile, el salvador, honduras, panama has been a war against people. ideas were very low down on the pole as a reason to destroy these nations. & that was what was done. they were & are destroyed. they would have done it in venuezala if they were prepared to fight their wars on many fronts
the armed forces of america whether it is in the form of experts, in the form of their schools of terror, contingents or entire armies are an ope & brutal expression of their hatred of the other – especially if that other is demanding rights that are proper for them to make
in chile & nicaragua – this expression in the face of a people’s will spread enough shame to endure for a very very long time
the americans armed forces have never saved anybody from anything
their intervention at the very end of the first world war – extremely late in the day – was an extension of their own imperial power & began a long history of the economic & sometimes moral enslavement of europe – east & west
the second world war was not of their choosing & even here, as i have repeated often here to the point of boring you – the russians did the fighting & the dying – the rest was a sideshow & of that there can be no doubt. this is not to demean those who lost their lives – but it is to state a truth that is self evident. it was only a moral war for the americans, incidentally
the then cynical ‘war’ between the russians and the americans where they used third world countries as a bloody checkboard is something no tears can recover – this day or forever
every military action & i include somalia & kosovo were immoral, deeply & profoundly immoral
& they were directed by immoral men – who evenn their own history & by their own stated perameters – were immoral – the genocide of the vietnamese, cambodian & laotian people & their complicity in their destruction is too obvious state. but state it i will
because these are real people, real nations & real destines being pulverised by people whose own personal politics are corrupt to the extreme – the prick cheney is just one example of someone whose own morality is questionable, whose participation & profit from murder are clear & precise but administration after administration has been crowded by these criminals.
kennedy or clinton were not strong enough to confront this immorality, in fact this criminality in any substantial way but at least their administration were peopled by person of some intelligence & who saw a little further than next week
this war today against the arab nation expressed by iraq but also by the palestinian people is obscenely immoral & completely cynical
radical islam did not fall from the heavens – it came about because it was created – & the unites states has a great responisibility with its creation & support to people like the muslim brotherhood & to the development of al quaeda specifically. the americans construction of this form of fundamentalism has been spoke about cleealry in the books of gilles keppel & otheres but we are a long way away from a clear & methodic analysis that could help us confront this menace
but this menace is not being confronted in iraq or palestine – it is being created & it is being created in a way that i find profoundly disturbing. in that a ‘ghost’ ideology has been created to become the eternal enemy
the actual military power of a q & all its satellites are insignificant & could be confronted militarily but it is not & i wonder why
the immorality of the war in iraq is not decreased by its efficacy – for me it would only increase the immorality
i see something profoundy evil in the destruction of a civilisation that today still has much to teach us – the way the institutions of culture were dismantled was deeply shocking & of an importance we here can only wonder
& there is something perverse metaphorically & actually with an obese infantile americ being mirrored in the savage & equally infantile beheadings by islamic fundamentalists
i hope kate storm will not scream at me but i find something in this war that is not masculine or muscular – it is the opposite – it is infantile & it is the abandonment of responsibility
it is the space of the greedy eating all they can before the shops closes as the white south african state articulated before & how israel acts today
look i am a simple man but i know what complexity is & what is happening is not complex it is vulgar in fact & in implication
if i celebrate giap – it is because his love can never be questioned, his military strategy was as much about poetry as about violence & i mean that seriouslly – with all the seriousnees that i can muster at this hour. with love he created a resistance that was poetic – his understanding of the ‘real’ world was articulated in his use of nature itself
giap fough for something as precious as liberty & national independence
american are fighting this war, eficacely or not for enslavement & ocuupation
you know that i say this respectfully to you alabama & as usual it is crude in its articulation but i want myself, at least to understand that this war as all wars is also about human blood & human tears
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 5 2004 17:40 utc | 11
In one sense this is just another story about the atrocities and grief of war.
In another sense, since it involves “American grief” of a universal and powerful sort, I suspect the story may have a bicyclist’s legs.
This is the kind of grief they’d rather not have make the top of the news.
Yet this is the kind of grief that is at the rotten core of this ill-begotten administration’s foreign policy.
It needs to climb the charts like a bullet.
Posted by: koreyel | Oct 5 2004 19:40 utc | 12
r’giap,
again you, put into words – what i feel, what i know but – haven’t yet found the way to, – put into words. your “crude in articulation” is the poetry of expression of heartfelt knowledge from the soul
new setback have some positive side effects – “crude” eloquence shines
Posted by: Juannie | Oct 5 2004 20:08 utc | 13
13 year old girl killed in Gaza by 20 IDF bullets.
On her way to school…………….
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 5 2004 20:54 utc | 14
Another difference between the US and Europe and I do hope Europe will be steadfast with the GM food. Maybe up to now no obvious ill effect has been observed, but we do not know much about longterm effect of GM food. Besides remember the tobacco industrie hiding all the negativ research. I would trust Montsanto to do the same thing with this. Actually some ill effects have been observed – monarch butterflys have been reduced since GM crop is being used and are considered by some as on the verge of extinction, as the pesticide effect is not only on the bad pests. In a Canadian Province (with a complicated name) cross fertilized raps crops can not be destroyed as they have become herbizid and pesticide resistant.
Now I do not mind if they want to sell the GM food as long as it is declared. I want to be free to choose what I eat. If there a people of enjoy it, well then they can eat it, but I do not want to be force fed with it.
Europe closes ranks on bioengineered food
Posted by: Fran | Oct 5 2004 21:17 utc | 15
Now this is something I love about Americans. Many stay much more active and lively into very old age, where as in Europe resign and give up much earlier. I know there are some exceptions – but the active elderly people seem to be much more widespread in the US.
‘Old Granny D’ Just Keeps On Walking — Into a Race for Senate
Ok. this is it for today, time for bed.
Posted by: Fran | Oct 5 2004 21:28 utc | 16
rg: i hope kate storm will not scream at me but i find something in this war that is not masculine or muscular – it is the opposite – it is infantile & it is the abandonment of responsibility
I could not, would not scream at you RG… but perhaps you are only half correct. Perhaps what you are seeing IS the actual state of the “masculine” (if there is such a thing) on our Happy Planet, circa 2004 … infantile.
😉
Posted by: Kate_Storm | Oct 5 2004 22:18 utc | 17
kate
though i’d hate to use the old nazi carl jung’s theories – i do feel that at least in an anthropoligical sense – his work on the femine & the masculine is useful. old hippy that i am i still hold dear the majority of the work carried out by that old anarcho-bolshie wilhelm reich & in their sense of what the masculine constitutes i think i am at least half correct & i think you are also correct – that the masculine in the west is now just dressed up infantilism.
we’ve all been talking here of individualism, of authenticity, of absolutes & of theology but what i see in the west is that our particular part of humanity has surrendered to ‘models’ – political, social, cultural & medical that are inherently incompetent at best or represent ideological interests in the worst case
it is to say that we have surrendered not in the face of grandeur as old martin luther/john calvin/knox pretended to but that at least in our generation we have surrendered to fools & their foolishness. it would be comic except it isn’t. it is sad beyond tears & tragic beyond our weeping
& admittedly that is what i am doing in the last post to alabama – in my work i want & demand excellence especially because my cultural intervention is social. this excellence is not for me incidental. to ask the best of people is often to ask them as fitgerald sd – to hold opposing throughts at the same time. it is difficult to llive with our contradictions but it is the only way beyond the stench of lies
administration after administration in america has as deanander has suggested reduced public discourse into babytalk – everybody looking for their mamapapa as antonin artaud cruelly but correctly suggested
there is no longest the best of the brightest but the cretinous of the crowd & that is all kristol, coulter & their crowd are. they are cretins. the very people a knowing edward teller cultivated in his springtime. they as dylan onece sd ‘play with our world like it is their little toy’. what is astounding to me is how far they have got – how far they have determined what it is possible to say
what i detest more are the journalist/scum of washington post/new york times who dress up their babytalk as something civilised, something learned. it is the opposite. it is dumb beyond imagining
i want to repeat this point that i tried to make to alabama – what we watched in the invasion in iraq was the concious, deliberate & brutal dismantling & destruction of museums, libraries, archives, archeological sites – the destruction of their universities & their capacities to research. this proud & beautiful people & i want to remind people of the poet abdelwahaab al-bayatti who suffered as an iraqui under saddam hussein – if he had lived he would have collapsed under the weight of what the americans are doing to that country.
this proud & beautiful people are the cradle of civilisation
what is america, britain, australia – in front of that they are all babytalk nations with a disturbingly convergent belief in their own power & correctness. what has been apparent in middle eastern civilisation since averros is the place of doubt – the cleansing nature of doubt. the idiocies of ben laden have more in common with a pat robertson, a jerry falwell, or a robert schuller than they have with the intellectual tradition of the arab people
why have they appeared to surrender to fundamentalism – because they have been forced by poverty, marginalisation & the complicity of u s power to seek relief in absolutes – to seek an answer – or like the palestinians to qeek to sat to the world – we exist
if i do not care for the plight of the american armed forces it is only because the people they are killing are amongst the most human of us & often with the better angels of their nature in full function
& we do what we can here & in our lives to reach out to them as other human beings & see out own suffering in their eyes – let us not forget that if we diminish arabs today – it will be us tommorrow – that is a truism that has stayed true
yes, i want the defeat of the americans – not at the hands of fundamentalist but at the hands of a country’s people. i want that defeat to inculcate a lesson to all imperial powers that their brutality must end – that we as a people will not permit it to last
the millions & millions of people who opposed this war will one day have their say – these demonstrations were the waking up of the child into a more complex humanity than their cot & a plea no matter how oblique towards a humanity that needs to be felt. & felt today
yes , i want the defeat of the american army in a thousand stalingrads because then & only then will american power use other means to articulate its will. i do not want to see the deaths of young americans – people who are being eaten whole by their own masters but if that is what it takes for america to learn the lesson giap & the vietnamese people gave him – then that is the path that needs to be taken
americans have a chance in november to escape that destiny but i fear they are too close to the cot to call out – & change
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 5 2004 22:57 utc | 18
@R Giap:
yes , i want the defeat of the american army in a thousand stalingrads
Fortunately, RG, the US only has enough troops, active and reserve, to make up 2 and a fraction German Sixth Armies(270,000 men).
It has always amused me that the Neoclowns truly believed that the US will reshape the Muslim world in it’s image, with a force that size.
Powerful smoke those guys are smoking.
Take Care and Be Well.
Posted by: FlashHarry | Oct 5 2004 23:24 utc | 19
remembereringgiap, I agree with what you say, and I’ve said it myself on occasion: I want us Americans to be beaten out of Iraq, and I don’t expect us to leave otherwise.
But there’s a point that matters to me, perhaps, more than it matters to you. America has some democracy in its own works. To put it in the crude terms of a comically paranoid turn: there’s nothing remotely American about the neo-cons who hijacked our military to advance the narrow aims of a political party in a foreign country. This hasn’t happened here before, and I don’t like it one bit. I also wish to understand it clearly, and when I ask Pat and other questions about the way our military works, it’s to test my conviction that our military really was hijacked. And something worse has also happened: Israel (the land populated by Jews and Palestinians alike) has been ruined by this gang, and it won’t grow out of this horror–any more than Iraq can grow out of its horror–until its story has been told in clear terms. General Giap was a model of the clarity and understanding that I strive for.
Posted by: alabama | Oct 6 2004 0:02 utc | 20
alabama
if there is one thing – even in your speculations you have given us, you have given me is your clarity. i’m an old maoist & i am as much a victim of my rhetoric as its creator – in that thoughts i share here often direct me further towards darkness than to light.
it has worked in my poetry & theatre for over thirty years – i also write theoretical & methodoligal texts but when i began posting on billmons – i have learnt much & often from your clarity. & your clarity is not pompous – i hear the real questioning & i often hear the sadness of your breath. & i have read your posts often enough not to question without thought
but i think our earnestness sometimes covers up the facts of the massacre because it is simply too difficult to deal with. what is happening is horrendous. & i am as much a victim of that as anybody else. i want a context to this horror
my hatred of imperialism comes from somewhere deep inside me & from ever since i can remember. i was involved in the struggle against the american war in vietnam from a very very young age. as an adolescent the vietnamese peasant was my kin – in a very real sense. then i wanted mao tse tungs ‘perfect’ revolution. i wanted a violent end to imperialism
today i would be happy with just a sense, a sense of decency
because i began so young disavowal was never an option for me – i saw in the communist movement to which i belonged – the frailties, the weaknesses which lead to corruption – to the nurturing of elites
so it has never come as a surprise that the neo cons are ex trotskyites – their are elements within the left which cannot see a commun humanity – in its complicated reality & so they will disavow & turn into their opposites in the wink of an eye
the christopher hitchen too are all too common – bullies who wrap themselves in the elegant sophistries of a disembodied discourse – from them i never expect clarity nor honesty – & they are as about ‘inauthentic’ as you can get
alabama, when you spoke of owen lattimore – i felt reproached but at the same time i learnt something directly & indirectly. & that is why i read & post here & in large part because there are many like you here who are genorous with their information & with their opinions – & it is not just a talkshop. i think i feel at least who is behind the post
jérôme is another example of someone who gives & for whom it is important for me to read though we might disagree on almost anything – but i feel a common humanity. i feel it in most of the posts. the humour of a flashharry, a deanander, a kate storm have been the breath i’ve been waiting for in darker moments
so i hope you did not think my friend – that i was in any way critical of you – i have read too many of your posts to seee you as an uncritical defender of efficacity as opposeed to excellence
it is close again to leonard cohens four in the morning – so i will leave this for now – hoping you know that whatever criticism is directed as myself as much as to you. & that that criticism of one another is fraternal – is a search for that clarity – is a rummaging amongst this forest of darkness to see at least some light
still steel
Posted by: Anonymous | Oct 6 2004 0:57 utc | 21
remembereringgiap, sometimes it’s only our blood that speaks to us, or in us, or for us–as lust, or bloodlust, or mother-love, or child-love–since blood has so much to say. And then no citizen, or the voice of conscience, or sweet reason has anything to tell us. This happens every hour of our lives, and tells us that we’re creatures.
Blood has its own clarity to impart, since, as Yeats would say, “it completes our partial mind”.
In all these posts that we share as friends, our blood has its times to speak, along with the voices of citizen, conscience, and sweet reason. But they rarely harmonize, each of us being a din of dissonant voices.
Posted by: alabama | Oct 6 2004 3:47 utc | 23
WaPo Senators Discuss Bill on President’s Citizenship
The Senate took a first step yesterday toward opening the presidency to foreign-born citizens, including a particular Austrian-born actor who is running the nation’s most populous state.
Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) held a two-hour hearing on his proposal, one of several in Congress to amend the Constitution by removing the requirement that only people born in the United States can be president.
I like some aspects of Austrian economics, but living in a country that once voted for an authoritarian Austrian and still feels the results I ask my American friends to beware of Austrian statesmanship.
Posted by: b | Oct 6 2004 9:50 utc | 24
alabama
thank you
yes
& sd with a care of language
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 6 2004 10:54 utc | 25
@CluelessJoe
Yes. I like their way to analyse things. Which does not mean that I agree to their radicalism. But based on a social-democratic system, their ideas of small state solutions can often be superior to the strick regularism practiced in old Europe.
Posted by: b | Oct 6 2004 12:43 utc | 27
The Economist The dragon and the eagle
American consumers and Chinese producers have led a global boom. China is creating genuine wealth, but America’s binge is based partly on an illusion, …
Posted by: b | Oct 6 2004 13:17 utc | 28
At ndol.org, the website of the Democratic Leadership Council, Marshall Wittmann, former aide to Sen. John McCain and ‘national greatness’ conservative, comes out for Kerry:
DLC | Blueprint Magazine | October 4, 2004
Moose on the Loose
By Marshall Wittmann
Bush had a chance after 9/11 to create a bold new politics of national purpose that would make Teddy Roosevelt proud. But he blew it. A modern Bull Moose progressive now finds common cause with Kerry and Edwards.
Editor’s Note: This article is taken from the upcoming issue of Blueprint Magazine.
This unreconstructed Bull Moose will run with the donkey in November.
I am an independent McCainiac who hopes to revive the Bull Moose tradition of Theodore Roosevelt, and I support the Kerry-Edwards agenda. Don’t get me wrong — this Bull Moose is not completely in agreement with the Democratic donkey. But the Bush administration has betrayed the effort to create a new politics of national greatness in the aftermath of 9/11.
If John Kerry wins, it remains to be seen whether his administration will be more willing to break with its ideological base than a Bush team that has been slavishly loyal to its corporate paymasters. But there is no remaining shred of doubt that another four years of a Bush presidency would have a toxic effect on American politics. If George W. Bush is re-elected, unlimited corporate power, cynicism, and division will ride high in the saddle.
In the past few years, there has been an effort by the neoconservative center-right to forge a new politics of national greatness. Although this new political perspective was never spelled out in specifics, its adherents (including me) envisioned an energetic federal government that would implement a foreign policy advancing American interests and human rights, along with a domestic policy that would promote national service, and an economics focused on benefiting the middle class.
Our model was Theodore Roosevelt, the original Bull Moose, who did not flinch from taking on the special interests at home while aggressively promoting American interests abroad.
The modern champion of conservatives for national greatness is Sen. John McCain. In the 2000 campaign, he advocated rogue state rollback, reform of government, an economic plan that focused on middle-class tax relief, and national service. He inspired Americans “to enlist in causes greater than their self-interest.”
[…]
[T]he effects of the law of unintended consequences are being felt in Iraq. Iran, one of the charter members of the “axis of evil,” may emerge as the big winner in this war, as its influence grows in the Shia south. American credibility, which will be needed in the future as we confront threats, has been incalculably damaged. Our military is overstretched, and it will be difficult to find the resources for expansion because of the deficits created by the irresponsible tax cuts.
It will now be far more problematic to employ force in humanitarian situations such as the Sudan or certainly against the other players in the axis of evil — North Korea and Iran. Paradoxically, a President Kerry may be more able to use military force than a re-elected President Bush, because he will have more credibility with the international community and the American people than the current incumbent.
What exactly have rock-ribbed conservatives gained from this administration? As conservative commentator Andrew Sullivan has observed, “Domestically, moreover, Bush has done a huge amount to destroy the coherence of a conservative philosophy of American government; and he has been almost criminally reckless in his hubris in the conduct of the war.” Of course, if liberals had their way they would expand the welfare state. In contrast, the Bush administration expands the corporate welfare state. Once again, the donors must be reimbursed! Deficits be damned!
So what does the Bull Moose think of the donkey? In the early primaries, I thought Karl Rove had induced a mass brainwashing of the Democrats as they flocked to Howard Dean. If the Deaniacs had seized the party, the Bush-Rovian dream of realignment might have been realized. Dean was their dream opponent — a socially liberal, anti-war candidate from Vermont. However, the good centrist sense of the Democratic rank and file prevailed.
This Bull Moose is not all the way with Kerry, but part of the way with JFK. I am generally to Kerry’s right. However, on the key issues of progressive economics and a muscular and smart foreign policy, John Kerry’s ideas are far preferable to George W. Bush’s. And, with his gesture this summer in approaching McCain about the vice presidency, Kerry demonstrated that he is committed to a new politics of national unity.
Although I had my differences with Kerry during the Cold War, he has demonstrated by his hawkishness on Kosovo and Afghanistan that he is willing to use force to defend American ideas and interests. He advocates increasing the size of the U.S. military. On domestic issues, Kerry has positioned himself in the New Democrat tradition. Kerry has proposed an ambitious national service program. He would retain the tax cuts for the middle class while rolling them back on the super-rich. And he would reform, rather than eliminate, the estate tax.
If Kerry is victorious, there will no doubt be a battle within the Democratic Party between the left and New Democrat wings. Perhaps, just perhaps, a progressive national greatness wing can emerge that combines a commitment to national service and progressive economics with a dedication to defending America and promoting its ideals. Fortunately, there is a model for progressive national greatness in the presidency — the previous JFK. President Kennedy combined a muscular foreign policy with a call to service and a domestic progressivism. Kennedy brought Republicans into his administration and governed from the vital center.
A President Kerry also should embrace a reform agenda that will attract the constituencies of McCain and H. Ross Perot. An overhaul of the tax system that would eliminate loopholes should be undertaken. A few years ago, Rep. Dick Gephardt offered a modified flat tax proposal that would both simplify the system and retain progressivity. A left-right coalition to eliminate corporate welfare should be built. A Kerry administration should promote efforts at the state level to depoliticize congressional redistricting.
In the war against terror, it is vital that America be united. We have real enemies who seek to do us harm. Contrary to the conspiracy theories of Michael Moore and the loony left, Bush did not invent our enemies. But, despite all his bravado and swagger, he has made it more difficult to build a domestic and international political coalition to ultimately prevail against our terrorist adversaries. He has bred distrust by driving a cynical partisan agenda that seeks to reward the wealthy, while branding his political adversaries as vaguely unpatriotic.
Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney have waged an unprecedentedly cynical and divisive campaign. The campaign has proven that there are no guard rails when it comes to a scorched-earth effort to hold on to power. However, Democrats can seize the opportunity to reach out to disaffected moderate Republicans and independents to build a new political coalition of national unity. That is both the hope and the cause of this unreconstructed Bull Moose.
Marshall Wittmann, a former aide to Sen. John McCain (R. Ariz.) and creator of The Bull Moose blog, is a senior fellow at DLC/PPI.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 6 2004 15:26 utc | 29
Here’s a link to the IDF kills girl, 13, on her way to school story Cloned Poster mentioned above.
Also, here’s another good article from the current Swans, this one on Presidents and the historical mythmakers that create them.
Transforming Reality Into Mythology
Posted by: b real | Oct 6 2004 15:28 utc | 30
“progressive economics”? He can’t really mean universal healthcare, stronger labor and environment regulations and a stronger progressive taxation that would hit the wealthy classes far more than the current dumbed-down closed-to-flat-tax system?
Posted by: CluelessJoe | Oct 6 2004 15:34 utc | 31
@Clueless
As a senior fellow at the Progressive Policy Institute, um, yeah, that’s what he means by “progressive economics.”
Progressive economics…meet muscular foreign policy. The marriage of my nightmares.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 6 2004 15:59 utc | 32
Justin Raimondo at antiwar.com
[…]I just love getting letters from those who have drunk too deeply of Kerry’s Kool-Aid, berating me for not jumping on board the Democratic bandwagon: how else, they ask, do you think we’re going to get rid of those evil neocons? Before they cast their vote, however, let them ponder Safire’s words long and hard:
“His abandoned antiwar supporters celebrate the Kerry personality makeover. They shut their eyes to Kerry’s hard-line, right-wing, unilateral, pre-election policy epiphany.”
That’s where the “logic” of the Anybody-But-Bush movement leads – straight into the waiting arms of “the newest neoconservative.” From the frying pan – straight into the fire.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 6 2004 17:35 utc | 33
pat
maybe i was not clear & never am with using psychoanalytic language in terms of politics but sometimes it seems apt
what i mean by muscularity – in the sense of a foreign policy is at once a form of credibility, a judicious use of force & a sense of planning – of thinking things through. if you like to take full responsibility for your actions
a muscular foreign policy is to live in balance & to nourish those balances – equilibrium is not impossible to create – it has proved to be possible historically
a muscular foreign policy is not to lie , to scheme, to elaborate non existent ‘truths’, to be serious in both preparation & planning, to understand & interpret rapidly the results, to look for & cultivate real allies not puppets
but look america has never seriouslly been interested in a real foreign policy of ‘contemporaries’. it is & has been a thug always using disproportionate means & force. it has lied through its teeth. it has used international forums only as a space to exert its deeply undemocratic impulse
what americans have done in latin america have led to the death of democratic or popular politics. the rebirth of that form today in latin america has come after decade after decade of an interventionist politics that has brought shame to america. what was done to chile & nicaragua is so upsetting still today – that the peoples will was destroyed by american foreign policy & intervention. this is fact – pure & simple & has been stated in public tribunals, respected forums books & scholarly work
the only, only intervention that may be described as ‘honorable’ has been in the phillipines & even there the u s hedged its bets & was forced by international politics to do so. it was allso helped by the venal corruptness of marcos
in indonesia, again we do not have to search for conspiracies – the american involvement with suharto from inception to end was guided, assisted at every point by americans including the massacre of over a million people
these are real people pat – as real as the three thousand who died in the twin towers – they are real to theior families, to their communities & to their nation
to return to nicaragua – what was done – the murder & destabilisation of a legitimate political force is fascist in its consctruction & intention. in chile the same is true & the contempt with which the chilean people were held is truly staggering – even today
& mr wittmann is wrong – america did invent al quaeda – physically, financially & actually. in each country where islamic fundamentalism has a direct link to american agencies. the proxy war against the russians created the false heroes of islam
your leadership ha been very far away from grandeur. there is nobody this century that could worthily stand beside nelson mandela. the exemplariness of this man makes a mockery of all the stunted politicians of your country
& what is the army except the open & brutal expression of politics & as i sd in an above post i do wish for the defeat of your armies because they do not belong there & never have
mr wittman can leerily call those of us who call for a redressing of questions as the ‘looney left’ & from people like him – i take that as a compliment. at the end of the day i know there is no blood on my hands or my conscience. at the end of the day – hysterical commentaries by people like him are just so much short change in my pocket. at the end of the day the fundamentality of a real politics is so absent from their discourse. their discourse will change from dinner table to dinner table. it is they who do not belong in the ‘real’ world
i find their pomposity, their playing out of being great statesmen as simply too ludicrous to mention. the response from both right & left from america is sometimes so shallow – so missing the point
what is often absent is memory. any memory at all & if you like a muscular foreign policy would also be about having a real memory
what mandela did to shotrt circuit a certain & perhaps necessary bloodbath – was to call in question this memory but use that memory to offer pardon – to offer comprimise – with dignity
there has been no dignity in american foreign policy & i ask you to mention just one instance where american foreign policy has been ‘moral’ in any real sense
i neither ask you to accept my opinions – that in any case reeks of evangalism – today there is no place for that but i thought we offered our posts here so that we could question our own positions not to seek to affirm them. that has been the pleasure of being here. that the whole waterfront is covered
& again i’ll accept ‘looney left’ as a badge of courage because i know that the politics i have lived & worked with in my life have been & are profoundly democratic. in my art i have trampled the throat of my verse to play a real part as a citizen, as a person who takes his civic responsibility very serioussly. perhaps too seriouslly
& the warning signs of exactly what will happen in iraq are clear – you remember khe sahn, hue & the tet offensive – these were succesful gestures by the vietnamese against the americans but with an ideology, a military force & an immersion with the people but in iraq none of these things exist for the resistance – there is no cohesive leadership, armed resistance is organised in a very haphazard sort of way – bu they have succeeded already in diminishing & degrading american military might & this will continue in an acclerated way no matter how efficient the slaughterhouse the americans may create
i want to finish with repeating what i have sd elsewhere – the destruction of this particular cradle of our civilisation appears unrepairable – what has been done & even bremer accept this in that first month of occupation will bring shaem on your nation for centuries to come
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 6 2004 18:46 utc | 34
I posted the exerpt of Wittman’s DLC article in order to help demonstrate how and why a Kerry administration will give another lease on life to the foreign policy ideas underlying neoconservatism/neoliberalism – ideas to which I am opposed.
It really deserves to be read in full, as does Justin Raimondo’s piece on The New Neocons.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 6 2004 19:33 utc | 35
the most extreme version of right wing politics needs to b extinguished – once & for all
but i have never dreamed that kerry will constitute the answer. truly, i believe that too much damage has been done, too many essential institutions have been comprimised – the judiciary & the press in particular – that even a kerry victory will not resolve that overnight
what has happened in iraq & the middle east has gone far too far already & i sense an apocalyptic politics for the forseeable future
i’ve never really understood libertarian politics – as a young hegelian – the state in & of itself is not the enemy – in my time i’ve witnessed judges falcone & borsellino & many others forced to become a state in absence of a state
as an artist & as a man – the truly worthy moments of my life have been with or within communities. this fact has escalated not diminished a personal demand for excellence
i’ve witnessed the destruction of too many communities in too many countries by the words/worlds of murdoch/berlusconi that i hesitate in front of what people freely call their ‘individuality’ because it has always implied a heirarchy of knowledge & power, because in the guise of individuality it demonises the fact of the interior lives of ordinary people
i have never subscribed to the ‘great person’ view of history – extraordinary circumstances create form ordinary people the extraordianry which creates wonderment
pat, i believe in the people, not as an abstraction but as a quotidian reality – i as a man am not always up to the challenge especially recently but i have never veered towards a nihilism of though or of act. if you like i have faith in them but it is true – never in history have they ever been so coerced as a unit precisely to destroy the natural & organic affinity but we will all be the poorer if the murdochs of this world win
whatever changes need to happen in our world need to be taken by the people not by elites – self selected or otherwise
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 6 2004 20:08 utc | 36
Pat: well, the “Third Way” was the bogus Blair and Schroeder came up with years ago. It’s been completely discredited as a joke now that everyone can see Bliar is just another right-wing loon, and how good Schroeder’s reforms are for the average Hans. Idiots that think that the only way for the “left” to win is to become the right. Seeing that the DLC is behind it reinforces my deep mistrust of this whole thing.
Also agree about not trusting the ABB logic. I mean, what would leftist people do if Pat Buchanan was the only viable alternative to Bush?
As many others, I’m hoping Kerry may do better, but I’m quite aware that it’s likely there won’t be much changes in foreign policies. It’s about some domcestic issues that Kerry may differ the more from Bush, and perhaps on some environmental positions.
That said, imho keeping Bush would just be a huge FUCK YOU from the US to the rest of the world; in fact, I think that having Bush for a 2nd term and having the GOP keeping both houses would be tantamount to a declaration of war to the rest of the world (well, maybe not to Israel and possibly Oz and UK, but to roughly all the others).
But then, I consider that most of the Democratic party is right-wing.
Posted by: Clueless Joe | Oct 6 2004 20:30 utc | 37
Iraq on the path to peace. Via Daily Dish
From: “Baghdad, USConsul”
To: “Baghdad, USConsul”
Subject: Warden Message
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:36:13 +0000
Warden Message – Increased Security Awareness within the International Zone
On October 5, 2004, at approximately 1 pm, U.S. Embassy security personnel discovered an Improvised Explosive Device (IED) at the Green Zone Café. A U.S. Military Explosive Ordnance Detachment safely disarmed the IED.
American citizens living or working in the International Zone are strongly encouraged to take the following security precautions:
* Limit non-essential movement within the International Zone, especially at night.
* Travel in groups of two or more.
* Carry several means of communication.
* Avoid the Green Zone Café, the Chinese Restaurants, the Lone Star restaurant and Vendor Alley.
* Conduct physical fitness training within a compound perimeter.
* Notify office personnel or friends of your travel plans in the International Zone.
**** Conduct a thorough search of your vehicle prior to entering it.
Consular Section
US Embassy Baghdad
Posted by: b | Oct 6 2004 20:51 utc | 38
form the last interview with the american writer hubert selby jr (i’m translating from the french so forgive any problems it may have)
“americans are not a cultivated people. that is why most of the leader have played the cars of paranoia & fear. you only have to see the evolution of the quartiers of new york: brooklyn has become a quartier for the rich & manhattan is absolutely unliveable. i was born in brooklyn & i know all the streets & i’ve watched from a distance how that city has changed, absorbin the collective fear of its habitants.
the humans like Tralala could not exist today because there is no place for the people who lose or fall. we want to destroy, to eradicate, to hide them from theeyes of the population. all my work has targeted the phobia of difference which animates the american people”
hubert selby jr entretien richard pinhas
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 7 2004 18:00 utc | 42
can i suggest a window into the culture of iraq through their poets :
chawki abdelamir, fadhil al-azzawi, abdelwahab al-bayyati, sargon boulus, mahmoud al-brikan, jean dammou, buland al-haidari, jabra ibrahim jabra, sami mahdi, nazik al-malaïka, nabeel yassin & badr chakir al-sayyab
these are very great poet who have made rich the international voice of poetry
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 7 2004 18:08 utc | 43
@rememberinggiap
i have never subscribed to the ‘great person’ view of history – extraordinary circumstances create form ordinary people the extraordianry which creates wonderment
I have never seen this explained better.
…currently reminding myself to breath…
Posted by: Citizen | Oct 7 2004 19:27 utc | 44
I read this at NRO yesterday:
“The Army Times is reporting that active-duty servicemembers are backing Bush over Kerry 72-17 (with 1 percent for Nader). The numbers are just about identical for the reserves and the Guard.”
I asked about this and discovered that the main Kerry turn-off cited by soldiers in the Army Times report is his Vietnam testimony before Congress.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 8 2004 7:45 utc | 45
I asked about this and discovered that the main Kerry turn-off cited by soldiers in the Army Times report is his Vietnam testimony before Congress.
yet if you ask any of these servicemembers simple questions like “what did he say” or “are you saying that the things he said did not happen” you get a lot of sputtering and hemming and hawing.
We have to thank the so called liberal media for informing the masses so well. Special kudos to Limbaugh and Fauxnews, the responses you do get from the above questions are all prepared by them.
Posted by: Dan of Steele | Oct 8 2004 9:05 utc | 46
Well, if 72% of the US servicemembes want to die for a lie, who am I to stop them?
Posted by: CluelessJoe | Oct 8 2004 10:23 utc | 47
I’ve been following this issue for a while, and it tells me one thing for sure: after 1975, we of the Viet Nam anti-war movement had some important work to do, and we never really did it. Maybe we couldn’t do it. Maybe the timing was wrong, or maybe we didn’t have the stuff, but things would surely have worked out very differently if we’d been able to reach out to our peers in uniform and listen to their griefs, their complaints, their sorrows and their disagreements. We’re the ones who had to do this, since, as everyone knows, those who fought in Viet Nam can’t readily talk about it with those who didn’t, or they’ve felt discouraged from doing so when faced with the general self-righteousness of our politically-correct stance. Anyway, an important step was missed (but it’s also true that wars don’t stop on a dime: I know that I haven’t fully resolved my conflicts from the ’60’s and ’70’s; they continue to overwhelm my thoughts about American politics here and abroad).
Posted by: alabama | Oct 8 2004 15:22 utc | 48
77 I wonder if what we are witnessing here is what Hegel would call the “unhappy consciousness” — used to describe the state of mind that prevailed when the Roman Empire was dissolving. The flight into a deterministic (Calvinistic) religious framework, and by extension, the embrace of a propaganda driven view of core American beliefs, clearly reflect the absolute need to recast the American consciousness into unquestionable absolutes — thereby, creating the shield(denial), the sword(edification), all as a reflection of God.
Not so much a prescription of failed consciousness, but evidence of it.
Posted by: anna missed | Oct 8 2004 19:02 utc | 49
@Alabama
The above was directed to your comments about soldiers in Iraq specifically, and Americans generally.
The ultimate in “compartmentalization”?
Posted by: anna missed | Oct 8 2004 19:16 utc | 50
Not so much a prescription of failed consciousness, but evidence of it.
Like Lynne Cheney practicing Fahrenheit 451:
Booklet That Upset Mrs. Cheney Is History
The Education Department this summer destroyed more than 300,000 copies of a booklet designed for parents to help their children learn history after the office of Vice President Dick Cheney’s wife complained that it mentioned the National Standards for History, which she has long opposed.
…
The booklet included several brief references to the National Standards for History, which were developed at UCLA in the mid-1990s with federal support. Created by scholars and educators to help school officials design better history courses, they are voluntary benchmarks, not mandatory requirements.
At the time, Lynne Cheney, the wife of now-Vice President Cheney, led a vociferous campaign complaining that the standards were not positive enough about America’s achievements and paid too little attention to figures such as Gen. Robert E. Lee, Paul Revere and Thomas Edison.
At one point in the initial controversy, Cheney denounced the standards as “politicized history.”
“unhappy consciousness”?
Posted by: b | Oct 8 2004 19:24 utc | 51
U.S. Said to Develop Strategy for Iraq
hmm, yeah, looks like it’s about time we start thinking….
Posted by: b | Oct 8 2004 19:51 utc | 52
“The occupation of Iraq is presented as “a mess”: a blundering, incompetent American military up against Islamic fanatics. In truth, the occupation is a systematic, murderous assault on a civilian population by a corrupt American officer class, given licence by its superiors in Washington. Last May, the US Marines used battle tanks and helicopter gunships to attack the slums of Fallujah. They admitted killing 600 people, a figure far greater than the total number of civilians killed by the “insurgents” during the past year. The generals were candid; this futile slaughter was an act of revenge for the killing of three American mercenaries. Sixty years earlier, the SS Das Reich division killed 600 French civilians at Oradour-sur-Glane as revenge for the kidnapping of a German officer by the resistance. Is there a difference?”
journalist & fim maker john pilger
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 20:22 utc | 53
“These past two weeks, I’ve been learning a lot about the hatred Iraqis feel towards us. Trowelling back through my reporter’s notebooks of the 1990s, I’ve found page after page of my hand-written evidence of Iraqi anger; fury at the sanctions which killed half a million children, indignation by doctors at our use of depleted uranium shells in the 1991 Gulf War (we used them again last year, but let’s take these things one rage at a time) and deep, abiding resentment towards us, the West. One article I wrote for The Independent in 1998 asked why Iraqis do not tear us limb from limb, which is what some Iraqis did to the American mercenaries they killed in Fallujah last April.
But we expected to be loved, welcomed, greeted, fêted, embraced by these people. First, we bombarded Stone Age Afghanistan and proclaimed it “liberated”, then we invaded Iraq to “liberate” Iraqis too. Wouldn’t the Shia love us? Didn’t we get rid of Saddam Hussein? Well, history tells a different story. We dumped the Sunni Muslim King Feisal on the Shia Muslims in the 1920s. Then we encouraged them to rise against Saddam in 1991, and left them to die in Saddam’s torture chambers. And now, we reassemble Saddam’s old rascals, their torturers, and put them back in power to “fight terror’’, and we lay siege to Muqtada Sadr in Najaf.”
robert fisk journalist
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 20:28 utc | 54
Giap
Do you see the Pilger piece about the ethnic cleansing of Diego Garcia to make way for the military machine?
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 8 2004 20:29 utc | 55
“Afghanistan is not a success. Human rights organizations are already pointing out that the polls are hopelessly flawed, that the candidates in some cases are working for the warlords. Not since before the Taliban, when the same warlords were back in power killing each other has there been such opium and drug production in Afghanistan. Most of the country is out of bounds to foreigners because the Taliban have re-established themselves, especially in the villages around Pastia coast, and the Pakistani border. In many cases, U.S. forces cannot move freely except in large numbers in parts of Afghanistan. There has been some reconstruction work. Some people have gone along to put their names down for a vote, but given the warlordism, the vote is likely to prove meaningless, if it does take place. I don’t think, by the way, that the elections are going to take place in January or any time soon afterwards in Iraq. Afghanistan is being left to sink again back into the same chaos and the same poverty that it was in before. Both in Afghanistan and in Iraq, we have profoundly failed because we have not done our work as we should have done internationally through the United Nations. And that, unfortunately, is why the bin Ladens of this world can continue to flourish and can continue to stage their war. I think there’s one other thing that you need to remember. It’s very easy to say, we’re at war. It’s very easy to go off and start a war. Okay, you can say that the war started on September 11, 2001, but you could also say that the war started in 1948 between the Palestinians and Israelis. The war started in Iraq when the British invaded in 1917 and again in 1941. But once you embark on a major military campaign it’s very difficult to switch it off. What we have got in Iraq now is not a war on terror. Most of the people – the vast majority of the men fighting the Americans are Iraqi, and they will go on fighting. You know one of the things that’s very interesting at moment. Again, we need to look at history. When Saddam Hussein invaded Iran in 1980, we supported him with guns, chemicals for gas, with export credits from the United States. And we urged him on. We wanted the destruction of the Islamic Republic of Iran after Khomeini’s revolution. We backed Saddam. He sent a whole generation of Iraqis to learn to fight and die. Now, in that war, the Iraqis went through immense suffering. They fought most of them without any initiatives, because no one could take initiative, only Saddam was the man who was allowed to make decisions. They dug their tanks into the ground, stuck the gun barrels over the top and just fought on, like the battle of Asam against Iranians. But those young men, those men who were captains and lieutenants are now grown up with an enormous experience of fighting power. And they are no longer hobbled by dictatorship. They can take their own initiatives. That, I suspect, that, I suspect is why this insurgency is so successful. ”
robert fisk
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 20:32 utc | 56
Giap, after the ISG….
Is Saddam in prison on corruption charges now?
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 8 2004 20:50 utc | 58
no
i think he might be there for false pretences of being a real panarab leader
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 21:13 utc | 59
saddam hussein like suharto was a puppet for the americans until it became necessary to get rid of him one way or another
that he did not try to learn the lesson of a nasser is a sadness for the people of iraq & the arab nation
christ, if we were to go through the bloody puppets of the americans from videla to pinochet, from marcos to batista, andreotti or whole group of clowns in england who from chamberlain onwards are just so many caricatures in a smalltime melodrama played out by burlesqe characters for some lurid political pantomine
if being a tryrant had been his only crime he could be living out his retirement in florida with the rest of them
no he was the last of the secular resistants to american hegemony who was not capable of transforming his tribal politics into something of grandeur
but who am i to say this – whatever the case saddam hussein – whether he had grandeur or not would have ended up the same way – a cardiovascular accident in a prison hospital run by the americans
butt hell with zarquawi (i’m sure i’m spelling that incorrectly) who seems to wander form east to west north to south in iraq who is capable of efforts large & small – who can be blamed for everything
its tru that the american prefer a narrative that is clear & simple – he did this & then he did that & then….& then….& then
the relaity that the resistance might be made up of real peopl with real complaintes with real desires for national independence & freedom has not even entered this administration of gangsters minds…it never would
this administration has watched too much ‘father knows best’ mixed with early hitchcock – that it cannot tell the middle of the narrative from the beginning or end
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 21:27 utc | 60
Giap
You speak poetry.
I wish I could buy you a beer and just listen and add my inadequate one-liners to keep you going.
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Oct 8 2004 21:35 utc | 61
The reality in Iraq was far better captured by retired Army Special Forces Col. W. Patrick Lang, former Defense Intelligence Officer for the Middle East and a member of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. In an informal e-mail, Lang wrote: “The sad thing is that U.S. combat intelligence in Iraq does not seem to know who the insurgents are, where they are, how many they are or what they plan to do.”
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 21:35 utc | 62
“the occupation is a systematic, murderous assault on a civilian population by a corrupt American officer class, given licence by its superiors in Washington. Last May, the US Marines used battle tanks and helicopter gunships to attack the slums of Fallujah. They admitted killing 600 people, a figure far greater than the total number of civilians killed by the ‘insurgents’ during the past year. The generals were candid; this futile slaughter was an act of revenge for the killing of three American mercenaries. Sixty years earlier, the SS Das Reich division killed 600 French civilians at Oradour-sur-Glane as revenge for the kidnapping of a German officer by the resistance. Is there a difference?”
Marine Maj. Gen. Conway has stated that the order to undertake a large-scale assault upon Falluja overrode his official recommendation against it and subsequent reports confirm that it was the White House, feeling under pressure to “act”, that did the ordering. GEN Conway had advised against it because he did not want the residents of Falluja to perceive that the US was acting out of revenge for the killing of two contractors – killings that the Marines themselves did not consider of any great import. The Falluja assault was called off mid-battle, again on the say-so of the White House and against GEN Conway’s conviction that aborting the operation would only compound the initial tactical error. It was aborted due to international reaction to the level of casualties.
What exactly does the US seek in Iraq? I can tell you what it does not seek. It does not seek the extermination of “untermenschen.” It does not seek the enslavement of an “inferior race.” It does not seek a self-perpetuating occupation and administration of a foreign land. It seeks the establishment of a democratic ally in the Muslim world, and chances are exceedingly poor that its wishes will be answered.
Mr. Pilger has told us of a corrupt American officer class, without informing us of the nature of its corruption or providing evidence to support it. Perhaps there was not space.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 8 2004 22:10 utc | 63
[The US] seeks the establishment of a democratic ally in the Muslim world
Is there any hint somewhere (except Mr. Wolfowitz’ lies) that this is the case?
Wasn´t Turkey a democratic ally in the Muslim world?
Posted by: b | Oct 8 2004 22:20 utc | 64
@b
What is the evidence that the US does not, through OIF, seek a democratic ally in the Muslim world – more specifically, in the Muslim Middle East?
What the US has wanted, and continues to want, is the equivalent of an allied, post-war Germany in the heart of the Middle East. A pipe dream, to be sure (or nightmare, depending upon your experience of it) but that’s what we’ve been after.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 8 2004 22:34 utc | 65
Pat – the evidence is that you DO NOT CREATE DEMOCRACYS by invading countries and killing its inhabitants that can not do harm to you or even its neighbors.
Is their any official or unofficial mentioning of “creating a democracy” in the run up to the war? There were lots of comments on oil (and WMDs)I have seen at that time, none of creating democracy.
The idea to create a democracy in Germany came after the war. Check for the “Morgenthau plan” – imagine your country sliced in half because the US agreed to a USSR extension to half Europe – the question was not democracy, the question was to checkmate the USSR after the war. US controlled democracy (with several hundred thousand US troops on the ground for 50 years) was not implemented for the benefit of Germans, but for the benefit of the US. Did it benefit the Germans too? Yes – but that wasn´t the plan – that was a side effect.
Posted by: b | Oct 8 2004 23:14 utc | 66
pat
it’s quite simple. the americans want what they have always wanted. vassals. client states. comprimised ‘democracies’.
i’ll ask again i cannot see any armed american invention as being ‘moral’, done for a ‘greater good’. i will repeat also that for all intents & purposes armed islamic fundamentalism did not fall from the sky but was invented from old cloth by the u.s. & its intelligence ‘experts’
i’ve lost my heart for china but as any fool can see – everyday the american empire collapses the chinese imperium get stronger & these people are not a todaytommorrow strategist – they play for the long haul & it would seem as lenin has noted that capital is so venal it will sell you the very rope from which yopu will hang them & the flight of american capital into short term benefits in china is but just an example
clonedposter – i imagine you live just across the channel – perhaps a boisson san sucre sometime in the future
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 23:16 utc | 67
pat invention should read intervention – i think i’m typing with my elbows
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 23:19 utc | 68
or thinking with them – my elbows
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 23:21 utc | 69
pat
john pilger goes into a great level of detail – google john pilger – he has a site – i think he is a very thoughtful writer
he was once a bit of a wildboy – & he was the first to cover thalidomode & the first to cover the horrific recent history of cambodia. he has gone from a hard man to an extremely subtle concerned man who has got his stories through great risk to himself
knew his work 20 years ago & think he was genuinely hurt by the realities of reagan/thatchers foreign & interior politics
he is one of the very few iwhi has followed the exigencies of a martha gellhorn
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 23:26 utc | 70
sorry for my almost soo constant presence
someone must have placed some metaamphetimines in my insulin
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 8 2004 23:58 utc | 71
“Is their any official or unofficial mentioning of “creating a democracy” in the run up to the war?”
For heaven’s sake, b, what was the final objective that Jay Garner carried in his brief case upon arrival in Baghdad – the objective that would remain throughout Bremer’s tenure and continues today? The objective was and is for some semblance of a functioning democracy in Iraq. That was ALWAYS the plan. Only the interim means ever changed.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 9 2004 0:36 utc | 72
@rgiap: sorry for my almost soo constant presence
Comrade, we regret to observe that exposure to Comrade DeAnander’s anarchic bourgeois-individualist rantings has impaired your moral fibre, and is undermining the discipline and self-control required of all Party members by the Central Committee.
anti-social tendencies are contagious, which is why affected persons must be isolated for treatment. an unmarked sedan is waiting just outside.
Posted by: The Thought Police | Oct 9 2004 0:40 utc | 73
pat
where & when has the united states ever helped to establish a real democracy?
maybe i’m a little simple but i do not know of any case where this has occurred. though there many case where they have established tyrannies – suharto’s indonesia, marcos’s phillipines & pinochets chile just being the icing on the cake
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 9 2004 0:43 utc | 74
thougt police
yes, its true – the degenerate influence of ex comrade deanander has had a powerful influence over me & i confess that i have been conspiring with him & a gang of titoist to feed the workers meat with crushed glass, yes i confess that we have concluded discussions with fascit cliques & their petit bourgeois running dogs to vandalise the machinery of state. yes it is also true that we have geld meetings withe left centre & right blocs at almost all hours of the night & day. it is also true that we have been in cahoots with anti-party elements to establish whatever it is you accuse us of establishing
i see the car now & the four rather heft fellows who…..;
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 9 2004 0:50 utc | 75
“where & when has the united states ever helped to establish a real democracy?”
Japan and South Korea. Germany doesn’t count because it was a democracy before the Reich.
But foreign policy dreams are inspired and informed not by history – rather by the misunderstanding and popular refashioning of it.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 9 2004 1:11 utc | 76
@Bernhard
Please check your e-mail. I’d like to post a story here about a new explicit and implicit pressure on U.S. online media sources.
U.S authorities have confiscated media computer servers in London used by http://www.indymedia.org to get their stories out.
Indymedia is still up on the Net and has a press release about it. People at http://www.dailykos.com are also discussing the matter.
Posted by: Citizen | Oct 9 2004 1:37 utc | 77
oh pat
what is called a democracy in japan was not created by the us & it was simply an adequate model that the japanese mimicked – the moral imperative was not american
& even less so in south korea – it has suffered decade after decade after decade of repression often bloody while its disturbed twin in the north played out its semi maoist dementia. it was the bloody checkboard between the russians & the americans where the client states were completely incidental
the autocrat macarthur acting very much like the proconsul bremer on steroids nearly ended all our lives with his madness
so korea – a barely functioning ‘democracy for most of its life, a japan that simply & cleverly molded itself into whatever kept the occupier off its back & germany – post war germany was just a armored front against the russians that became quite incidentally – a shop that worked a profit
as b mentioned the morgenthu plan was to raze germany back to the middle ages & would only permit an agriculture industry but it was cooler heads (alger hiss i imagine) who suggested it might be better to accept all the old nazis back into business, judiciary & the professions so that it could be a military base for the americans
it could be argued that italy – the rise of the corrupt christian democrats & their ganster chiefs including andreotti were corrupted by the united states from the beginning in the 1948 elections & have stayed that will till the present mafia chieftan berlusconi (exquisite corpses – alexander stille (?) writes clearly about this)
no i still don’t see a ‘moral’ intervention, a ‘greater good’
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 9 2004 1:43 utc | 78
thought police
my atrocious typing can also be blamed on comrade deanander
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 9 2004 1:46 utc | 79
citizen
have visited indymedia
yes your concerns are real
to what lengths will these tyrants go to silence people
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 9 2004 1:57 utc | 80
“no i still don’t see a ‘moral’ intervention, a ‘greater good'”
Neither do I. They’re your words, not mine, rgiap.
Posted by: Pat | Oct 9 2004 2:18 utc | 81
Trying to find out more about IndyMedia, but some of their related pages won’t open (not surprisingly).
But this was available on their homepage:
Indymedia & the FBI: earlier events
Earlier incidents with the FBI, CIA or other US authorities included:
Gov’t Attempts Subpoena For Indymedia Logs – Service Provider Refuses: Shortly before the RNC in NYC, August 2004, the FBI attempted to retrieve IP logs from one of Indymedia’s ISP at their offices in the US and in Amsterdam (Netherlands).
Free Radio Santa Cruz Raided by Federal Government
Indymedia fights Diebold’s legal attempt to silence discussions about e-voting
Cyprus IMCista Investigated by United States Intelligence Services
FBI asked for the Nantes post on swiss police to be removed, but admitted no laws were violated:
“The FBI agents told me that they were not concerned with the photos, but with the identifying information. There never was any such identifying information, and even if there was, it would likely be protected by the first amendment if it was obtained legally. (There was a recent case here in Washington that you may be familiar with on this very issue). But, even assuming it is illegal to post identifying information (which it is not), there WAS NO SUCH info. The FBI agents freely admitted to me that individuals have a right to take hotographs of agents in public places and post those photos on the internet.”
The Kossacks (dailykos.com) are discussing the possibility that this might be about U.S soldiers deserting the military. Personally, I imagine that Diebold and electronic voting are a much larger concern for this election. That’s where I’d look.
Posted by: Citizen | Oct 9 2004 3:15 utc | 82
Trying to find out more about IndyMedia, but some of their related pages won’t open (not surprisingly).
But this was available on their homepage:
Indymedia & the FBI: earlier events
Earlier incidents with the FBI, CIA or other US authorities included:
Gov’t Attempts Subpoena For Indymedia Logs – Service Provider Refuses: Shortly before the RNC in NYC, August 2004, the FBI attempted to retrieve IP logs from one of Indymedia’s ISP at their offices in the US and in Amsterdam (Netherlands).
Free Radio Santa Cruz Raided by Federal Government
Indymedia fights Diebold’s legal attempt to silence discussions about e-voting
Cyprus IMCista Investigated by United States Intelligence Services
FBI asked for the Nantes post on swiss police to be removed, but admitted no laws were violated:
“The FBI agents told me that they were not concerned with the photos, but with the identifying information. There never was any such identifying information, and even if there was, it would likely be protected by the first amendment if it was obtained legally. (There was a recent case here in Washington that you may be familiar with on this very issue). But, even assuming it is illegal to post identifying information (which it is not), there WAS NO SUCH info. The FBI agents freely admitted to me that individuals have a right to take hotographs of agents in public places and post those photos on the internet.”
The Kossacks (dailykos.com) are discussing the possibility that this might be about U.S soldiers deserting the military. Personally, I imagine that Diebold and electronic voting are a much larger concern for this election. That’s where I’d look.
Posted by: Citizen | Oct 9 2004 3:16 utc | 83
reposted, now with FORMATTING
Trying to find out more about IndyMedia, but some of their related pages won’t open (not surprisingly).
But this was available on their homepage:
Indymedia & the FBI: earlier events
Earlier incidents with the FBI, CIA or other US authorities included:
Gov’t Attempts Subpoena For Indymedia Logs – Service Provider Refuses: Shortly before the RNC in NYC, August 2004, the FBI attempted to retrieve IP logs from one of Indymedia’s ISP at their offices in the US and in Amsterdam (Netherlands).
Free Radio Santa Cruz Raided by Federal Government
Indymedia fights Diebold’s legal attempt to silence discussions about e-voting
Cyprus IMCista Investigated by United States Intelligence Services
FBI asked for the Nantes post on swiss police to be removed, but admitted no laws were violated:
“The FBI agents told me that they were not concerned with the photos, but with the identifying information. There never was any such identifying information, and even if there was, it would likely be protected by the first amendment if it was obtained legally. (There was a recent case here in Washington that you may be familiar with on this very issue). But, even assuming it is illegal to post identifying information (which it is not), there WAS NO SUCH info. The FBI agents freely admitted to me that individuals have a right to take hotographs of agents in public places and post those photos on the internet.”
The Kossacks (dailykos.com) are discussing the possibility that this might be about U.S soldiers deserting the military. Personally, I imagine that Diebold and electronic voting are a much larger concern for this election. That’s where I’d look.
Posted by: Citizen | Oct 9 2004 3:22 utc | 84
@rgiap my atrocious typing can also be blamed on comrade deanander
It is all true — I am entirely to blame for Comrade RGiap’s failure to comply with the Five Year Plan for Typographical Error Reduction. I see now, quite clearly, that my recidivist counter-revolutionary tendencies and decadent Western literary pretensions have thwarted the Will of the People and set back the historical-determinist struggle towards a typographically advanced future. I am even now re-writing the story of my life for the fifth or sixth time, emphasising those particular points which this year’s Committee of Correction have deemed relevant, and I will shortly appear on State TV to read some of the more lurid passages.
PS in actuality, Comrade RGiap is typing with his elbows only because of some slight discomfort in his hands subsequent to voluntarily assisting the security apparatus with its inquiries.
PPS am realising rather sadly that all this sending-up of the bad old days would have been funnier before Ashcroft and Abu Ghraib, before the raids on FRSC and Indymedia, before various TSA follies. the humour in it now has a slightly dangerous edge. it is not so much “there but for the grace of God go we,” as “there but for the grace of God and a dollop of good luck, we may rather shortly be going.” I jest only to whistle away my fear.
INdymedia says the confiscation of servers was requested by Italy and Switzerland.
Excerpt:
Today, October 8, 2004, Indymedia has learned that the request to seize Indymedia servers hosted by a US company in the UK originated from government agencies in Italy and Switzerland. More than 20 Indymedia sites, several internet radio streams and other projects were hosted on the servers. They were taken offline on October 7th after an order was issued to Rackspace, Inc., one of Indymedia’s web hosting providers.
The reasons for the court order or who actually holds the servers now are still unknown to Indymedia.
According to Italian news agency reports and an Agence France-Presse (AFP) interview with FBI spokesman Joe Parris, the FBI acted on Italian and Swiss requests. “It is not an FBI operation,” Parris told AFP. “Through a legal assistance treaty, the subpoena was on behalf of a third country.” (1)
Earlier today Rackspace published a statement that they turned over the servers in response to an order under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT). The MLAT establishes procedures for countries to assist each other in investigations regarding international terrorism, kidnapping and money laundering. The court prohibits Rackspace from commenting further on this matter. (2)
In short, “There is no country where you can safely base free political discourse. We can whack you anywhere.”
Or even shorter:
“People, shut up.”
Posted by: Citizen | Oct 9 2004 4:01 utc | 87
BTW I think there is one contribution the Amis made to civil liberty in Japan after the surrender, and that was land reform. the US forced land reform onto the old Japanese landowning class… yes, the same kind of land reform that, simultaneously and later, was so distasteful to the US in another theatre (S America) that it connived with dictators and other thugs to murder tens (hundreds, maybe) of thousands of peasants and labour organisers, rather than permit populist/socialist movements to implement same.
presumably if Japan had been prime banana-growing country, or wheat- or beef-growing country, then land reform would have been as unthinkable there as it was in Panama, Cuba, Guatemala, etc etc etc. the Japanese should perhaps feel very lucky that they grew rice and millet, and other crops not of great interest to US agribusiness.
another interesting note is that Japan is still occupied by the US — there is an enormous presence on Okinawa. it’s also relevant that Okinawa is a racially stigmatised island — Okinawans are just one step up from Koreans in the litany of Japanese racism, and I’m not sure whether the Ainu are above or below the Koreans. the US was careful to occupy a place that the Japanese ruling caste didn’t mind “sacrificing” to keep the Amis happy. kind of like, if the Chinese conquered America, the American ruling class would happily give them some Indian Reservations or South Central to occupy permanently.
the Okinawans, however, are not happy and have not been happy for many decades. they are tired of the harassment, molestation, and rape of Okinawan women and girls by US military personnel; of the arrogant and dangerous driving of military personnel on both official and unofficial business that has claimed quite a number of victims, some of them schoolchildren; of the eminent-domaining (i.e. theft) of real estate, etc. but they have no say in the matter. some democracy, eh? a little matter of the “quartering of troops upon the people”?
John Reynolds (anthropologist and biostatician) delivered an address in 1963 in Okinawa. It was called “Various Problems with Democracy On Okinawa,” and was based on his research in Japan from 1951 on. In part, he said:
I cannot think of one word to describe the present status of the Okinawans. They are not Japanese; they are not Americans; they are not even prisoners of war, since even prisoners of war have certain rights. I have heard the term slave applied to Okinawans. I know that Okinawans are not slaves, but even slaves may hold important offices and may be rich. It sounds strange to say so, but in the terminology of anthropology, slave is the closest word to describe the present status of Okinawans. I do not believe that Okinawans live in a democracy. I do not know what Okinawa is, but I do know that Okinawa is not a democracy and a military government at the same time.
Okinawa is a military-occupied country, and there is no democracy in a military-occupied country. Americans are here to protect America. When it comes to government, governments are very selfish and do not concern themselves with the welfare of other governments and peoples.
When Americans leave Okinawa, what will become of this country? This question troubles me. If there is a war, there will be no problems, since there will be no Okinawa and no people. There will be no Okinawa and no people on Okinawa because Okinawa is a military base.
The American and Okinawan cultures are very different, and the Okinawans culture has some good points. The American culture has some good things to offer the world,, and one of these is basic American democracy, which is a very good thing.
American culture has a good beginning and foundation; however, the American are now going in the wrong direction. Americans are generous when they can afford to be generous. Americans talk often about courage, but they are really very afraid. It is the nature of Americans to kill other people in defense of their own security
For this outspokenness he was placed on the FBI’s watch lists, along with many other anthropologists. David Price’s book Threatening Anthropology: McCarthyism and the FBI Surveillance of Activist Anthropologists is well worth a read.
forcible land reform and the final deconstruction of the Imperial throne certainly had a thawing effect on Japanese politics. For some people there was “more democracy” in Japan after the US conquest, the land reforms, the imposed Constitution, etc. but for others, rule by Americans may be even harsher than rule by the Shoguns or the Imperial family.
in “democratising” and “bringing freedom” as with so many other things, the two most important words in the dictionary are “For” and “Whom.”
pat
what i do see & see consistently are deeply immoral interventions & no sense at all of the greater good
its true deanander – it’s the same with me our little joke is not so funny in this world we live in & i too fear for us
still steel
Posted by: remembereringgiap | Oct 9 2004 11:34 utc | 89