Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 3, 2004
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A fresh one …

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US$ 8,800,000,000 of Iraqi money disbursed by the CPA Missed in Action

Posted by: b | Aug 3 2004 8:33 utc | 1

could you move that 2ed to the last post from off topic to here?you did that while i was a cogitating.thanks

Posted by: anna mist | Aug 3 2004 9:29 utc | 2

@anna – only this way
Nemo
The wailing we hear from Iraq these days, bodes darkly for the black house on the hill. Quack surgeons, drunk on fervor and narcissism have sought to remedy an irritation with a primal flourish, a sweeping of the mighty wrist across across the table of sand. To rid the Iraq of its demon and its delusion, and in doing so, to instill unto the eyes of the world, the fearsome of our carnasial wisdom, our mastery of the ideal incarnate.
But lo, the labotomy of Iraq, has run afoul. Its blood of transfusion has has turned nefarious unto itself. It has arisen on its own particulated power, twisting loose from its restraint, in a raging stupor. A raging stupor at its unatural reassembly, alas, its parts no longer work to its sense of self. In its delirium, its dissonance of mind calls for vengence toward its maker and its collaborator. To throw off its contaminated self, to rid itself of its newly formed being it does not recognize, it will lash itself to death so it may be reborn anew of itself.
Posted by: anna mist | August 3, 2004 05:02 AM

Posted by: b | Aug 3 2004 9:53 utc | 3

WTF is going on here:
http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/transcript.php#
KERRY FAILS TO IMPACT IN POLLS
Presidential hopeful John Kerry appears to have failed to boost his popularity, despite widespread exposure during the Democratic Party Convention. Opinion polls show that American voters might already have decided to back the Republican President in the November election.
and here:
http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/region.php?id=90680&region=7
NEWSPOLL SHOWS HOWARD IN THE LEAD.
3.8.2004. 10:50:49
The latest Newspoll has found the Federal Government has a clear lead over Labor for the first time in two months.
and specially here:
http://www9.sbs.com.au/theworldnews/
LAST UPDATED 3.8.2004. 19:24:52
TERROR ALERT INTELLIGENCE “OLD”
US officials said much of the information collected by al-Qaeda that led to the country raising its terror alerts in New York and Washington is at least three years old, and officials are not sure whether the group’s surveillance of key targets continues

Posted by: vbo | Aug 3 2004 12:38 utc | 4

@NEMO:
Get the hell out of the way!
The A TEAM’S coming in.
http://www.teamamericamovie.com/

Posted by: Harold | Aug 3 2004 13:53 utc | 5

So, in less than one year the CPA managed to “lose” 9 billions. Fine. I’ll keep that in mind the next time I meet some freeper who claims that Palestinians are a bunch of terrorists that don’t get a damn about their corrupt Arafat who wasted hundreds of millions in the last 10 years. They would be right, Arafat’s clique are a bunch of amateurs compared to Bremer, Chalabi and co.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Aug 3 2004 14:03 utc | 6

b
thanks for that, think i stayed up to late last night

Posted by: anna mist | Aug 3 2004 15:16 utc | 7

Get the hell out of the way!
something tells me that’s going to be a riot… maybe it’s the fact that the South Park guys are involved.
So, I droppped this at the tail end of another thread, but I’m really curious to pursue it, a conundrum…
Is it better to encourage some who’s not planning on voting to vote, even though they may lean Republican, than to encourage them to stay away from the polls?
Seems to me that I’d rather someone vote, even for Bush, than not vote. Is that insane?
I just think that the less participation, the less of a democracy we have. If it was really 50% of eligable voters pulling for each candidate, that’d be interesting. But currently, it’s closer to 25% on each side, with 50% just… not participating at all. That 50% bugs me even more than the 25% that support Republicans. I just can’t understand not voting.
Anyway, that’s my question for the day.

Posted by: æ | Aug 3 2004 15:34 utc | 8

Many countries have higher voter participation rates than ours. If you want to raise the US voting rate, think systematically rather than individually.
First, even if they counted all the votes here, not everyone’s vote really counts because of election rules such as winner-take-all and plurality-rather-than-majority-rule traditions. The two party rather than multi-party system, and the inability to require more gender-balanced slates of candidates leaves a lot of voices out of the process, contributing to voter apathy. Furthermore, expecting folks to vote on a work day in a country where the work day is often 12 hrs long definitely supresses voter turnout, among both long-working execs [Cheney’s other priorities] and poor women and men working three jobs.
So Sunday or holiday elections would do a lot to increase the voting rate.
The ‘horse-race’ -crazed media which ignores [or rather skews] the issues also makes voting seem pointless to many.
In the meantime, I wouldn’t push anyone to register who might ‘cancel out’ your vote.
Unless your an official registrar in a voter registration activity who ought not refuse to register a voter.

Posted by: gylangirl | Aug 3 2004 16:12 utc | 9

Yep, I certainly agree that there are systemic barriers to full participation, and I’d love to see those addressed. But since electoral reform is anathama to politicians, apparently, I don’t see any real improvements coming in the short-term.
And I’d also agree that attacking the problem on a person-by-person basis is an impossibly large undertaking…
But isn’t it hypocritical to ever advise someone not to vote, just because they might not (or absolutely will not) vote “your way”, so to speak? Isn’t that, I donno, anti-democratic, to throw out a loaded term?
Part of this stems from my wondering if I’m just in the ‘wrong’ country. I often feel that as a serious lefty-progressive, I’m in a huge minority. When I’ve lived in Europe, the positions I hold have been treated as no-brainers, by and large. Here, I’d fear for my physical safety expressing some of my views in public.
I know everyone claims we’re a very polarized nation, but how can that be said to be true when we have so little participation in the democracy? Sure, maybe among the <50% who actually vote it's pretty divided... but how is it really, I wonder?

Posted by: æ | Aug 3 2004 16:53 utc | 10

Check out the CJR Campaign Desk’s little quiz on current events- it’s a hoot!

Posted by: æ | Aug 3 2004 17:59 utc | 11

@ae:
Thanks,
But I didn’t really need to know how stupid I am.
3 wasn’t that bad, considering I’m senile.

Posted by: FLASHHARRY | Aug 3 2004 18:59 utc | 12

@FLASHHARRY-
LOL. No worries- I did only marginally better. I don’t have a head for specific numbers, or dates. What I’ve leared in gradute school is that if you can’t have all your facts at hand, at least have your resouces. I do much better at the latter than the former.

Posted by: æ | Aug 3 2004 19:37 utc | 13

A fine day to vote out any scoundral that I don’t like. Yes, its primary day and what a good day it is. I voted against all incumbents.
I would really enjoy some elections reform.
1. Public financing of elections.
2. Popular vote for president.
3. Proportional representation for all seat in the state houses and congress.
4. Repeal the 17th amendment so senators are again elected by state legislatures. With proportional representation in state legislatures, coalitions would be needed to ensure each senator elected would represent the interest of the states. Todays senators represent corporations and are internationalist giving away the interest of the average citizen.
Any other ideas would be welcomed.
Bushie and his friends are complete morons. They dispise the sheeple and believe the sheeple will be suckers for these terror warnings always.
Thats bull. Bushie is even starting to lose ground in the Grand Rapids, MI area. A staunch republican area. I doesn’t matter how many warnings they give, their toast. And who the hell are these pollsters poling? Those poles are so full of shit. Unless it’s a hardcore fundie, I don’t know of very many voting for Bushie.
My sister lives in Orlando and Bushie has been met with massive protest every times he’s there. Floridians know the last election was stolen and are out to redeem themselves.

Posted by: jdp | Aug 3 2004 19:44 utc | 14

Those poles are so full of shit.
@JDP:
Christ:
What does the Coalition of the Willing have to do with any of this?

Posted by: FLASHHARRY | Aug 3 2004 19:59 utc | 15

@jdp-
well, I’m for abolishing the Senate completely- it’ll never happen, I know, not even a reduction to House-of-Lords-style function. But I don’t see where we need a non-proportional chamber at all, even if we send selection back to a PR State Legislature.(Though I think that’d be a good move, in lieu of eliding it entirely.) The average senate race costs 10x that of the average House race, so it’s pretty clear that the senate is a bastion of the wealthy and/or beholden, more so than the House anyway.
There is a good article on this by Richard Rosenfeld in the May, 2004 issue of Harpers.

Posted by: æ | Aug 3 2004 20:09 utc | 16

Via TPM
George W. Bush, August 2nd 2004: “Let me talk about the intelligence in Iraq. First of all, we all thought we’d find stockpiles of weapons. We may still find weapons. We haven’t found them yet. Every person standing up here would say, ‘Gosh, we thought it was going to be different.; As did congress, by the way. Member of both parties. And the United Nations. But what we do know is that Saddam Hussein had the capability of making weapons. And … umm … but let me just say this to you. Knowing what I know today, we still would have gone on into Iraq. We still would have gone to make our country more secure. He had the capability of making weapons. He had terrorist ties. The decision I made was the right decision. The world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power.”
The World would be better off with the USA!

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 3 2004 20:33 utc | 17

Who or what do they hate?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 3 2004 21:21 utc | 18

CP, a song comes to mind, does it not:
(in a passionate voice)
We can’t live with or without you
One of the song’s stanzas begins with “My hands are tied”, I think, but the associations in this context would be, er, unhelpful.

Posted by: teuton | Aug 3 2004 21:24 utc | 19

U2
Teuton
Saint Bono is an asshole.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 3 2004 21:33 utc | 20

Some VERY INTERESTING discussions now taking
place at the other bar.
Things you can really sink your teeth into, like
Rabbit Stew

Posted by: Harold Lloyd | Aug 3 2004 21:42 utc | 21

CP, agreed, and he’s not even holy. When I was in Dublin (only once so far), I saw a graffiti: “God thinks he’s Bono”.

Posted by: teuton | Aug 3 2004 21:59 utc | 22

Hello people,
help me at connecting the dots:
DOT ONE:
Eric Margolis reminds us that:

While eyes are fixed on the bloody mess in Iraq and Saudi Arabia’s growing instability, Egypt is beginning to tremble as its people worry who will succeed Mubarak’s unchallenged, 22-year rule. […] Egypt remains a repressive state with a brutal secret police where the use of torture against political opponents and Islamic militants is routine. $1.3 billion in annual US military aid keeps the armed forces and security apparatus loyal to Mubarak. CIA, DIA, FBI and NSA run major operations in Egypt to protect Mubarak’s regime from domestic opponents. The US tightly controls the military’s communications and limits stocks of spare parts and munitions.

DOT TWO:

[The 76-year old Mubarak returned to Egypt after 17 days in a German clinic. ] Now, as Egypt faces a succession crisis, Mubarak has been grooming son Gamal to be leader, but Egyptians strongly oppose this idea as unworthy of and medieval. When Mubarak goes, Washington will discreetly install a new leader from the pro-US elite – unless there is a massive uprising against foreign domination by nationalist-Nasserites and Islamists(`terrorists’ in Bush-talk).

DOT THREE:

The indispensable Juan Cole:

The number of persons in the Muslim world who wanted to inflict direct damage on the US homeland in 2000 was tiny. Even within al-Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri’s theory of “hitting the distant enemy before the near” (i.e. striking the US rather than Egypt or Saudi Arabia) was controversial.
[…]
In the first poll, […] the overall approval ratings of the US ranged between an unprecedented low of two per cent in Egypt and a high of 20 per cent in Lebanon. Those holding a favourable view of the US in Saudi Arabia were four per cent, 11 per cent in Morocco, 14 per cent in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and 15 per cent in Jordan. [DOWN FROM AVERAGE 75%]

A famous someone tried once to connect them into a picture:
A cryptic slide, by Laurent Murawiec, invited by Perle, at the Pentagon :

Iraq is the tactical pivot
Saudi Arabia the strategic pivot
Egypt the prize

Methinks the gentleman connects the right dots but the picture should be reversed. Is Egypt now ripe to plucked by the hand of the Islamic Revolution?
Can you help me find dots that I do not see, yet?

Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Aug 3 2004 22:01 utc | 23

@MarcinGomulka:
Our NeoClown strategists wouldn’t know something from shinola, if they had a forensic lab to analyze things.
I also didn’t realize Mubarak was 76 and in delicate health. Interesting.
And I am reminded of Field Marshal Lord Bramall’s(retired chief of the British general staff) letter to the Times in August 2002, opposing the Iraq War.
Bramall said the proposed Iraq war reminded him a lot of the 1956 Suez Crisis, when he was a young officer.
Bramhall’s armored corps commander got a communication from the War Office asking if he could “drive on Cairo”. Cairo was a city of 3-5 million then, I guess.
Corps commander responds back, not much amused: “Yes, I can drive on Cairo;but what the bloody hell am I supposed to do when I get there?”
Interesting how history repeats itself.

Posted by: FLASHHARRY | Aug 3 2004 22:45 utc | 24

Murawiec is a weirdo. I still have to see what reason anyone would have to invade and conquer Egypt. They don’t have oil. The only problem is the Suez canal, and even if it’s shut oil will still come to the US. That’s some weird stuff I don’t really see yet.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 3 2004 23:53 utc | 25

@CluelessJoe:
These fuckers are Insane–that’s the whole point.
My point in response to MG, was that if Mubarak goes, there’s not too much anyone can do about it.
Just Thoughts.
FH

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 4 2004 0:23 utc | 26

@ æ
Part of this stems from my wondering if I’m just in the ‘wrong’ country. I often feel that as a serious lefty-progressive, I’m in a huge minority. When I’ve lived in Europe, the positions I hold have been treated as no-brainers, by and large. Here, I’d fear for my physical safety expressing some of my views in public.
I know everyone claims we’re a very polarized nation, but how can that be said to be true when we have so little participation in the democracy? Sure, maybe among the <50% who actually vote it's pretty divided... but how is it really, I wonder?

Where are you from ae? Here in Vermont I feel the Progressive mind set is predominant. At a recent parade the Democrats received enthusiastic applause while the Repub’s got the cold shoulder. I’m sure there are pockets of both sides everywhere. But I sense the latent “silent majority” are beginning to wake up and become less silent. My optimistic self speaking right now. Nevertheless, I want to try to help light that spark in “We the People” to get involved and reclaim our democracy again. I’m going to go after voters that normally don’t but recognize they need to do something and quickly. Wish me luck please.
BTW, the bears and trees around here like us I think.

Posted by: Juannie | Aug 4 2004 1:35 utc | 27

I don’t think I’ll ever go out of my way to help get someone registered who I think will vote for chimpy but I would at least encourage everyone to get involved in our democracy.
Kind of a wishy-washy politician’s answer?

Posted by: Juannie | Aug 4 2004 1:40 utc | 28

Juannie:
I live in central VA and there are not many progressives here. However, there are many disaffected conservatives (the non-fundies and ideologically apathetic) who are unhappy about the Iraq war, the deficit and the Patriot Act. Some even understand that corporate power (the MI complex, including Big Oil) is driving foreign policy (I haven’t met any who have become aware of AIPAC yet, though) and are aware of what that power is doing to small business and American jobs. Big Media keeps telling us that it is the left that opposes Bush, but there is a lot of unhappiness with him on the right as well. The national Dems have missed a good chance to bring a lot of these folks – most of whom are civil libertarians – into the party. Dem Gov. Warner found a formula to get elected in a very Republican state: let them keep their guns, balance the budget, spend on schools and promote small business growth in depressed, redneck areas. Practical stuff, not very exciting, but it sells and gets you respect if you actually do it. The Norquist wing of the Repubs, for whom tax cuts and the Christian fundie social agenda is all that matters, is fighting Warner but the moderate Repubs have broken with them and worked with Warner. Progressives would do well nationally to reach out to these people; they are not well off and the Repubs take them for granted.

Posted by: lonesomeG | Aug 4 2004 2:45 utc | 29

Juannie-
well… just moved, actually. Spent the last few years in AZ, though. Which is a much more eclectic state than most people think. Phoenix is certainly very conservative, and due to its population, tends to take the election. But Flagstaff is quite crunchy- actually reminds me of Vermont. And Tucson, where I lived, is sort of mixed, more libertarian than anything else, maybe. Certainly not as progressive as Flag, but not as bad as PHX, either.
Now I live in Chicago- blue-collar and democratic, but definitely not of the progressive stripe. Actually reminds me of Buffalo, where I grew up. Though the neighborhood I live in here is an especially tolerant one, so it feels pretty comfy here. Lots of Obama signs…
But it’s not so much where I live as the feeling I get from the media- I suppose thats the problem. Not like I’m watching Tom Brokaw every night, mind you, but still… I guess I think the Machine is pretty relentless. If I have the impression people are waking up, I have to remind myself that I’m pretty selective with my interlocutors. I’m in academics, so liberalism abounts. But I don’t for a second think I talk much with the ‘average person.’
I love Vermont- used to go to summer camp there, near Rutland. Always got along with the bears, too.
As for voting… Yeah, I donno. I have to respect people who act on their beliefs more than people who don’t seem to have any, as a rule. You can’t argue with someone who has no position, eh?

Posted by: æ | Aug 4 2004 2:56 utc | 30

@lonesomeG:
Virginians sure are a strange group. I might even know a little something about them.
Might even get close in November if John Kerry, Wes Clark, and Max Cleland come in with their artillery trains.
Virginians appreciate what is real and don’t have much time for BS. Green Mountain boys might be the same way, J.
You gentlemen have a good evening.

Posted by: Cartman Lee | Aug 4 2004 3:05 utc | 31

For anybody that’s interested, the Bush being AWOL story has legs.

Posted by: sukabi | Aug 4 2004 5:21 utc | 32

Some news

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 4 2004 5:22 utc | 33

ae–
Moral dilemna aside, please understand that the other side does actively suppress. Clearly the ‘ethnic cleansing’ of offender populations in Florida is one example. The suspension of Miriam Oliphant, the Broward County Elections Supervisor is probably another, probably more egregious, example.

Posted by: RossK | Aug 4 2004 7:52 utc | 34

Connect Sa-Dat?
CBC Article
BBC Article
New Yorker Pitches In
Embezzlement, Bribery and Drugs Heavy tinfoil required, Hosni and Abdulaziz did it all…
Without checking, that “grand prize” quote was from a PNAC fellow, right?
Hmmm, Billmon wrote on this topic a year ago.
More on Laurent of Arabia.
They’re all insane – maybe they are. But what if they’re not, will a pewter helmet suffice? What if 33 is not just a number. The all-seeing eye suddenly becoming relevant. Are these people idiots or idiots savants?
In any case, I would like to be the one to have the last laugh, please humor me.

Posted by: fiumana bella | Aug 4 2004 8:34 utc | 35

Robert Fisk back from Iraq: Iraq on verge of implode

The American-appointed “government” controls only parts of Baghdad — and even there its ministers and civil servants are car-bombed and assassinated. Baquba, Samara, Kut, Mahmoudiya, Hilla, Fallujah, Ramadi, all are outside government authority. Ayad Allawi, the “prime minister,” is little more than mayor of Baghdad. “Some journalists,” Blair announces, “almost want there to be a disaster in Iraq.” He doesn’t get it. The disaster exists now.

Posted by: b | Aug 4 2004 10:55 utc | 36

@fiumana bella:
Great reading material, esp. the New Yorker article on Egypt.
Thanks.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 4 2004 13:04 utc | 37

@ lonesomeG
Dem Gov. Warner found a formula to get elected in a very Republican state: let them keep their guns, balance the budget, spend on schools and promote small business growth in depressed, redneck areas. Practical stuff, not very exciting, but it sells and gets you respect if you actually do it. The Norquist wing of the Repubs, for whom tax cuts and the Christian fundie social agenda is all that matters, is fighting Warner but the moderate Repubs have broken with them and worked with Warner. Progressives would do well nationally to reach out to these people; they are not well off and the Repubs take them for granted.
Thanks for the “Practical stuff”. Exactly the kind of stuff I’m looking for.
It’s hard to make out the what the Repubs are thinking around here. I’m a member of the Am. Legion which is pretty much a group of gung-ho Bush supporters but not completely. They’ve accepted me over the years even though my appearance would indicate leftist hippie, but I come from a strong libertarian persuasion so I can talk some of their issues w/o offending.
It has amazed me that I’m finding good support from them for my state rep run. I think local, independence, community, support for the working guy, which comprise a lot of my rhetoric, are all high on their addenda. Also I listen a lot and have a real sense of empathy for today’s service people. Don’t we all?
@ae,
I think I’m being heard and will receive some votes from even those
people who don’t seem to have any, as a rule. You can’t argue with someone who has no position, eh?
I’m thinking the dissatisfaction with the present administration is beginning to disloge even some of the couch potatoes.
Wish the bears could vote. I know I’d win if the trees would. My wife sings a lament to them every time she sees a full logging truck go by.

Posted by: Juannie | Aug 4 2004 14:34 utc | 38

Moral dilemna aside, please understand that the other side does actively suppress.
sure, absolutely… I don’t relish the thought of stooping to their level, though. Hell, that’s also why I’m not impressed with the Democrats platform this time ’round. The theory that one has to “out-x” the “x” seems to me to be a big looser, even if it’s the only way to win. They might win, but we (the people) still loose.

Posted by: æ | Aug 4 2004 15:52 utc | 39

From Juan Cole, “They’re Offended by the Offensive”
“The latest survey results out of the Middle East show that America’s favorability rating is now, essentially, zero. That’s down from as high as 75 percent in some Muslim countries just four years ago.”
Al-Ahram explains further:
“In the first poll, which surveyed six Arab nations and was commissioned by the Washington-based Arab American Institute (AAI), the overall approval ratings of the U.S. ranged between an unprecedented low of two per cent in Egypt and a high of 20 per cent in Lebanon. Those holding a favorable view of the U.S. in Saudi Arabia were four per cent, 11 per cent in Morocco, 14 per cent in the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and 15 per cent in Jordan. That marked a relatively sharp decline compared to a similar poll held by AAI two years ago, and indicated that the main reason behind the fall was the policies of the present U.S. administration led by George W. Bush.”
The respondents in the poll did not dislike the U.S. because of values like freedom and democracy. Middle Easterners have even more faith in democracy than do Americans. They dislike the U.S. because of its policies. According to the recent Zogby poll [pdf], they had three main concerns: The U.S.-supported persecution of the Palestinians, the U.S. occupation of Iraq, and U.S. plans to dominate and humiliate Arabs in general. It is policies that they hate, and want changed, not U.S. values.
[I agree wholeheartedly with this conclusion. Contrary to popular belief, contempt and hatred for the US is not about our fundamental values of freedom and democracy, it’s about our foreign policies, which too often violate these values abroad. As Iraqi blogger Raed put it: ‘Am I anti-American? Well, if America consists mainly of Don Rumsfeld, the Pentagon, and George W. Bush, then yes, I am anti-American.’ Well put. But now I wonder if those who yell loudest that “they hate us not for what we do, but for who we are” do so because they must convince themselves that “who we are” is still primarily a free republic of sovereign individuals, mainly interested in the peaceful pursuit of happiness and genuine well-being. Have our values changed to such an extent in the past century that it is not quite correct to say that we are hated ONLY for our actions abroad, but also perhaps for values hostile to those of our founding which have been injected into the system and insinuated themselves both here and elsewhere in the world that we influence and act upon? What might our foreign policies, esp. in the Muslim world, indicate about a long-term change in basic American values?]

Posted by: Pat | Aug 4 2004 16:27 utc | 40

My teenaged daughter, a libertarian-minded kid, has for the past year been dating what we call a Birkenstock leftist. The other day she asked me: Why is it that almost all the smart, thinking kids are on the Left, and the ones who are on the Right are usually non-thinking parrots?
I agree with her and it’s a good question. We got into a discussion about the anti-intellectualism of the modern American Right, which I see as a significant turn-off to young people entering the world of ideas.
Any thoughts on this from you Lefties here at MoA?

Posted by: Pat | Aug 4 2004 16:59 utc | 41

The fun never ends for the empire. From the AEI website:
U.S. policy toward Sudan is at a crossroads. Although the authoritarian regime in Khartoum remains on the U.S. list of state sponsors of terrorism, concern about its continued association with jihadists has been balanced by post-9/11 pledges of cooperation against al Qaeda. But with the world’s worst humanitarian crisis unfolding in Darfur—a government-sponsored ethnic cleansing campaign by Arab militias—the United States and the international community are threatening sanctions, while Sudanese hardliners warn that foreign intervention will constitute an attack on Islam.
How does Sudan fit into the global war on terrorism? Does the United States have a strategic, as well as a moral, interest in the crisis in Darfur? What practical steps should the Bush administration take to stop the catastrophe there? What interests, principles, and strategy should guide U.S. policy toward Sudan in a post-9/11 world?
These and other questions will be the subject of an AEI conference. Panelists include William Kristol, editor of The Weekly Standard; John Prendergast, special adviser to the president of the International Crisis Group and recently returned from extensive travel in Sudan and neighboring Chad; Ronald Sandee, a senior counter-terrorism analyst at the Ministry of Defense of the Netherlands; and Thomas Donnelly, resident fellow at AEI. Representative Frank Wolf (R-Va.), who recently returned from Darfur, will deliver the keynote speech.

Posted by: Pat | Aug 4 2004 17:10 utc | 42

Bush Knew. More stuff just out from In These Times.

Posted by: beq | Aug 4 2004 17:26 utc | 43

@Pat,
anti-intellectualism is, among other things, a product of religous obeisance, in my mind. Once you surrender your cognitive faculty to your minister/priest/imam/rabbi or whomever, it becomes easier to surrender it to others- teachers, politicians and parents, for example. And once you get used to not having to make decisions, it is terribly hard to go back.
Critical thinking skills are like language acquisition, in the sense that there is a critical period in which to develop them, after which it is not in fact impossible to acquire them, but you’ll probably never be mistaken for a native speaker. If you haven’t developed a mind for complexities by the time you hit or finish college, it’s probably not going to happen.

Posted by: æ | Aug 4 2004 17:55 utc | 44

@Pat
I’ll bite, though I’m not comfortable slapping any loaded label on myself to make such a seemingly rational observation… I’m wagering that what it boils down to is the issue of when (and if) a person values the realization, acknowledgment and appreciation of our own interconnectedness and dependence on the world around us. Cognitive awareness of our role in the natural world leads to critical observations of how we interact with it and others. A person who thinks about these things will most probably act quite differently than a person who is conditioned to defer their thinking to others. For one thing, the thinker will ask questions before necessarily acting against their own interest (including that of others.) Empathy is also undoubtedly a strong factor in determining how one reacts to the world around them. Empathy for your peers vs empathy for your masters. To be in the category of the latter reeks of ugliness, no matter what physiognomy presents itself and no matter how many products they consume. Maybe it’s as simple as “real people” vs “pod people” with the ego being the crux of the proverbial biscuit.

Posted by: b real | Aug 4 2004 18:36 utc | 45

@Pat SUDAN
The mask of altruism disguising a colonial war – Oil will be the driving factor for military intervention in Sudan
Sudan is devloping withe the help of China and is selling oil to China. US companies are banned from business there (by the US). Also – never mentioned – Sudan can control the Nil river and thereby the flow of water to Egypt. What a wonderful place to put your colonial military.

Posted by: b | Aug 4 2004 18:57 utc | 46

“anti-intellectualism is, among other things, a product of religous obeisance, in my mind”
I’ve noticed that this is a significant factor in some people’s anti-intellectualism. It probably depends on the nature of their religious belief (i.e., whether and to what extent their belief requires the surrender of mind). We’re a non-religious household, but my daughter’s boyfriend is involved with a youth group at his church, which I would classify as a “kumbaya” institution along the lines of the churches many of my friends attended back in the Seventies. Definitely not conservative; a generous amount of free-wheeling; and about as far from doctrinaire as one can hope to get on Sundays. William Graham Sumner said, “If you want war, nourish doctrine. Docrines are the most frightful tyrants to which men are ever subject.”
And you’re right that critical, independent thought is not a habit cultivated in adulthood.
“…the thinker will ask questions before necessarily acting against their own interest (including that of others.)”
All of the kids I’ve come to know and like over the years – and they certainly run the gamut in other ways – have one, small thing in common: they didn’t stop asking questions at the age of four or five. They are full of questions – the sort of questions that are the quickening of a soul anticipating a new stage in life; questions that must be answered by one’s self, to the satisfaction of one’s own out-going mind and spirit.
That kids like that continue to survive years of dreary miseducation and an oftentimes unfriendly and stultifying culture – that they burn brightly still with questions and a passion for discovering and formulating answers – amazes me.

Posted by: Pat | Aug 4 2004 20:29 utc | 47

In an older Off Topic thread I was asked why I was against the military to provide internal security functions. In Israel on teh way to its own version of fascisms this happens In the heart of the city, in the middle of the day. A well known film director is going to meet the spokesman of the military and at the gates he gets beaten and his bones get broken by the military security. No investigations follow.
If the military takes internal security functions there is no institution left to control the military. By definition and necessaty – to fight another country you must be able to fight it´s police and justice system – the military has superior methods at its hand. Police and judges are not able to control internal action of the military. And thats exactly why you never want them to do “security” on your streets.

Posted by: b | Aug 4 2004 20:38 utc | 48

Sovereign Iraq: U.S. Troops Arrest Iraqi Police Colonel In Ramadi: Police

“An American unit went to the home of Colonel Imad Suleiman Falah at 2:30 am (2230 GMT) and arrested him without explanation,” said policeman Ziya Hadi.

Posted by: b | Aug 4 2004 20:47 utc | 49

Pat- Oh No! birkenstocks! 🙂
my kids are nothing but tennis shoes, so I guess that makes them moderates or apathetic. 🙂
(while I’m somewhere between birkenstocks and blaniks with a dash of chuck taylors…which makes me sound like Elton John…omg! what a scary image.)
according to charts I’ve seen of people who study these things (General Source Survey is one), the higher a person’s educational level, the more likely they are to be tolerant of differences in public life.
This has been explained as a greater ability to apply abstract principles (freedom of speech, say) to concrete principles (freedom to speak out against your candidate, for instance.)
…although in this polarized atmosphere, it’s easy to see and feel intolerance from all sides…
In addition, the more exposure people have to other cultures, the more they tend to support abstract democratic principles as well (defined as freedom of speech, press, assembly, due process, tolerance for minority rights and equality of opportunity.)
So, insular thinking…and the lack of exposure to information that’s not what you think, lack of economic opportunity, lack of opportunities to experience different cultures (not just outside of the U.S.) all either indicate or contribute to lower levels of education..probably chicken and eggishness…according to what I’ve read.
as far as religion breeding intolerance, I think that those who self segregate because of religious beliefs do tend to exhibit anti-intellectual qualities, simply because they isolate themselves. That’s what I saw when I was growing up among the Southern Baptists, and what I still see among those I know who are part of that and similar cultures…though I don’t think any “typical” means true for all.
I think we see it in other cultures, too, in the Wahabbist sect, or the radical Zionists.
So, as corny as it sounds, education is the key to democracy, it seems.
Support for education, in turn, supports democracy.

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 4 2004 21:38 utc | 50

@Faux:
Looks like those Wahabbists be wearing Birkenstocks too–from the file footage I’ve seen.
Perhaps birkenstocks have become revolutionary.
Seriously, fiumana bella, way up thread has excellent references to the Islamic Revolution. Tey are very interesting reading, esp. the New Yorker piece.

Posted by: FLASHHARRY | Aug 4 2004 21:58 utc | 51

I should probably have qualified my statement, as it’s certainly true that some religions require more subserviance than others- buddhists, for example, are not known for for their extremist ways. Unless you count self-immolation, I suppose.
As for Birkenstocks, in which I am currently shod, ironically: we used to call them JC’s, for Jerusalem Cruisers. and Tevas? JC 2000’s. But I swear, they’re just comfy!

Posted by: æ | Aug 4 2004 22:16 utc | 52

@fauxreal
Support for education, in turn, supports democracy.
hells yeah! Which is exactly why our public school system has been allowed to deteriorate. Teach ’em enough to do their worker-bee jobs, but not enough to start wondering if there might not be a better way.
The good news is, if you know this, and if you know that your children’s education does not begin and end at Abraham Fitzgerald Washington-Adams Lakeview PS #23, but rather is your job too, then you can turn out bright, inquisitive children despite the sorry shape of the schools.

Posted by: æ | Aug 4 2004 22:25 utc | 53

I’m not a granola-eating birkenstock wearing liberal, but I have tolerance for you all. 🙂
actually, I’m a shiraz drinking, baquette eating liberal, so can I still post here?
…I do wear sandals…does that count…even if they’re not birkenstocks?

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 4 2004 22:28 utc | 54

FWIW-
Birkenstocks are a crappy choice for running from the pigs… or, really, anyone. The official footwear of the revolution? consignment (read: used) Nikes, with the swooshes ripped off/colored over/turned upside-down or otherwise “No-Logo’d”
… or maybe combat boots.

Posted by: æ | Aug 4 2004 22:33 utc | 55

ae,
I think Buddhism escapes the extremist behavior for two reasons: (1) It believes we are all endowed with knowledge of how things are/should be … it comes from inner, not outer authority; and (2) It considers itself a philosophy, not a religion.

Posted by: SusanG | Aug 4 2004 22:48 utc | 56

FlashHarry- yes, I read the New Yorker piece. It gives me no sympathy for the Islamic revolution to read that the newspapers publish defenses of Hitler, or, as I noted before, spew bile by quoting the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
In addition, the “Islamic Revolutionaries” are, imo and with much fact to back up that opinion, the enemies of all women around the world, and since I am a woman, I have no sympathy for their movement, in the same way that I have no sympathy for the religious right in this country.
The Eqyptians failed to note that the leader of the Northern Alliance, who was murdered by Al Qaeda criminals who killed themselves at the same time, was killed, by all circumstantial evidence, because the suicide attacks on the WTC were upcoming. How that squares with the declaration the WTC attack had nothing to do with it seems to be one long exercise in denial.
The seeming belief among those “on the street” or in the mosque about the value of the WTC attack also demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the U.S. to think that this nation would not respond militarily.
in fact, the attack seems to demonstrate that bin Laden understands the value of killing innocents to recruit for his cause much better than any of his followers do. How shameful that bin Laden uses people in this way, while, at the same time, doing business with the Bush family and, in turn, profiting from the killing of Muslims via the bin Laden investments in the Carlyle Group, for example.
So, bin Laden is a war profitteer just as Bush and Cheney are, and that the people in the middle east are ignorant of this fact is sad beyond words.
Yes, the U.S. policy concerning Israel is a terrible situation and a cause of much misery in Palestine. But if the Palestinians want to win that conflict, they have to stop suicide attacks and shame the U.S. into a saner policy.
that was the case with the civil rights movement here. that was the case with apartheid in South Africa, and it’s the case in the Palestine occupation.

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 4 2004 22:53 utc | 57

BONNIE AND CLYDE, BUSH, AND KERRY CAMPAIGN IN IOWA
link

Posted by: Imitatio Nemo | Aug 4 2004 22:53 utc | 58

@Faux:
I was talking about the “reality” of the Islamic revolution, not about “sympathy” for it.
Two very different things really.

Posted by: FLASHHARRY | Aug 4 2004 23:04 utc | 59

And just to make things interesting let’s throw this into the mix:
Rev. Moon’s submarines, sold to Kim Jong-Il, empower a nuke threat to the West Coast

Posted by: sukabi | Aug 4 2004 23:06 utc | 60

FlashHarry- my Celtic-French (it’s like Irish, but without the “h”…or something like that) got up when I read that article.
the reality of the Islamic Revolution is, sadly, the same as the reality of the proto-fascist movement here…it is dependent upon an uneducated population manipulated by rich people who make them think they care about their plight, and who use an external enemy to avoid any consequences for their own corruption.
sigh.

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 4 2004 23:19 utc | 61

pardon me, please, but I have the urge to don a tin foil hat and I need someone to talk some fashion sense into me.
Or maybe someone with internet saavy beyond my own can help me out here.
I just got an email message from aol that said a message I had sent to an address called “the hosses” had a fatal error and could not be sent.
thing is, I don’t know anyone with that email address, and I haven’t sent anything to anyone with that email address that I know of.
so why would I get that message?
and who are the hosses and why am I sending them email?

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 4 2004 23:35 utc | 62

oh, and the return mail thing has an attachment…which I haven’t opened. is this how mail is usually returned from aohell?

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 4 2004 23:40 utc | 63

Getting back to Pat’s 12:59 comment(not to disregard all the comments since, but I just got home from work. Tried to follow this thread a bit at work today, but I don’t dare post from there.)
One contribution to the more inquisitive, open-minded, and tolerant attitudes in people, young or old, is exposure to other cultures through travel, Peace Corps experience, semesters abroad, or any other way of getting beyond our own borders. Not that this will necessarily produce “liberal” thinkers, but it does stimulate “thinkers” generally. Just living for awhile in an environment that doesn’t accept at face value whatever the latest “truths”, “news”, and “analysis” the domestic press and establishment is promulgating can rewire all one’s acquired tendencies to passively accept these things without questioning.
My friends and I often lament that we don’t, as a matter of policy in this country, promote and encourage more cross-cultural experiences, especially for young people.

Posted by: maxcrat | Aug 5 2004 0:18 utc | 64

@Faux:
Might want to shut your computer down, run your antivirus software, and see if you’ve got a bug. Don’t open the attachment.
Do you have a firewall?

Posted by: FLASHHARRY | Aug 5 2004 0:26 utc | 65

@ b 2:57 PM re SUDAN & oil
A very insightful link b. My stored data base on oil doesn’t bring up anything on Sudan. I won’t research it now but what is happening in Sudan and the Guardian article connect dots I hadn’t yet seen. If you follow up & learn more, please post it.
The Cheney gagsters know that power lies in assessable usable energy, ie. primarily oil. I don’t want to belabor it y’all, but we’re essentially on the downslope of world petroleum availability. Those who control what’s left will be the empire of the 21st century, except for we who learn to live with the alternatives.
What, China controlling Sudan’s oil? We’d better manufacture a humanitarian crisis and move in the troops.

Posted by: Juannie | Aug 5 2004 1:41 utc | 66

Juannie, a couple points:
1. Right now much of Sudan’s oil is somewhat controlled by Malaysia’s Petronas & the Indian state oil company. Canada’s Talisman oil had to sell its interests after the kitchen got very hot re human rights and how the Sundanese gov’t would use its revenues in funding its war efforts last year.
2. My own opinion is that there is way too much hype about the looming oil shortage. Oil is not running out – there’s billions of reserves in Alberta’s oil sands alone (cost to produce approx $15-20 per bbl)

Posted by: Ramlad | Aug 5 2004 1:50 utc | 67

Flash and Faux,
Yep, it’s either a virus or a worm. I ran my anti virus and my spyware, it showed up on both. My guess is it’s trojan horse, so it might infest an operating system. I usually end up having to delete these manually, but sometimes the spyware catches them. Good luck.

Posted by: SME in Seattle | Aug 5 2004 1:54 utc | 68

@ Ramlad,
Point 1. Good info. Thanks.
Point 2. Ramlad, I agree, oil is not running out. It is just no longer an ever abundant expandable energy resource. As such it will no longer be able to be used to continually pump up a yearly growing GNP, which has been the case through most of the 20th century. Energy drives everything and as the stored multi-million year fossil fuel resource starts to decline, the engines of world economy will likewise begin to decline. Not overnight, but gradually.
There is a concept involved here: EROIE (energy returned on energy invested). The oil sands, and many other oil reserves contain huge quantities of stored energy but to recover them increasingly requires more energy so the net energy return begins to continually decrease instead of increase. That means, less energy from the resources to pump into our continually increasing GNP way of life. Things have to change. Are we smart enough to recognize this and position ourselves to live by the only known and practical sustainable, renewable energy source (Sol)?
I am and I hope to convince Vermonters that this is the direction we must consciously move to prosper into the future.
Check out Richard Heinberg’s book “The Party’s OVER” and others like it.

Posted by: Juannie | Aug 5 2004 2:19 utc | 69

Thanks Juannie – point well taken

Posted by: Ramlad | Aug 5 2004 2:22 utc | 70

@fauxreal
I just got an email message from aol that said a message I had sent to an address called “the hosses” had a fatal error and could not be sent.
yow! That usually means, though i could be wrong, that someone who has your email address in their address book got something nasty- trojan ‘hoss’ most likely.
sounds like you’ve already taken the correct measures, though.
One of the best reasons not to use a mail program that downloads stuff off the server; I’m lucky to have a webmail client which spares me much agony in that regard.

Posted by: æ | Aug 5 2004 2:41 utc | 71

Cartier-Bresson dies
Death of Henri Cartier-Bresson
Expect no further developments

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 6:11 utc | 72

Interesting article from this mornings Guardian.
Let’s rock the boat – Europeans should be cautious recruits to a President Kerry’s war on terrorism

Posted by: Fran | Aug 5 2004 7:19 utc | 73

Interesting article from this mornings Guardian.
Let’s rock the boat – Europeans should be cautious recruits to a President Kerry’s war on terrorism

Posted by: Fran | Aug 5 2004 7:20 utc | 74

Ups, must be really important information – don’t know how the double post happend.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 5 2004 7:21 utc | 75

I can see why the US are pissed off at kidnappings – it Works!
AFP RAMADI, Iraq – The governor of Iraq’s restive Al-Anbar province resigned on Wednesday after three of his sons were released by their kidnappers on condition he quit.
Abdel Karim Berges told AFP he resigned after his sons, aged 15 to 30, were freed in Fallujah following one week in captivity. He paid no ransom but bowed to the kidnappers’ demand that he leave office, said the governor.
Ramadi’s chief administrator Mohammed Abed Awad has taken over his duties.
The sons were kidnapped by gunmen who barged into and torched the governor’s family home in Ramadi while he was at work.
Ramadi is the main city in the mainly Sunni Muslim province of Al-Anbar, which also includes the flashpoint city of Fallujah where US troops have come under persistent attack and loyalty to Saddam Hussein still runs high.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 5 2004 7:22 utc | 76

nemo
Henry Cartier-Bresson++++expect more developments.
L.Paul “boots&suit” Bremmer——expect no further developments.

Posted by: anna mist | Aug 5 2004 7:51 utc | 77

Cloned Poster
A greater outrage than the last 16 months?
Iraq as a failed state, its taking shape.

Posted by: anna mist | Aug 5 2004 7:58 utc | 78

Once More
About this time 1 year ago the French floated the proposal: relinquish sovernity as soon as possible,before September as I remember.This proposal was, at the time, laughed at. The crazy French.

Posted by: anna mist | Aug 5 2004 8:15 utc | 79

Looting widespread in Iraq

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 11:05 utc | 80

Looting widespread in Iraq
$1.9 billion of Iraq’s money goes to US contractors
Sorry for the double post, some American contractor must have taken my first link.
😉

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 11:08 utc | 81

Supplies of brown trousers urgently required by British troops in Iraq
Shiite militiamen declare jihad against British forces in Iraq

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 11:17 utc | 82

Fast move up slow down?General Barbara Fast back in Arizona
While the cameras train on the trailer park trash the torture facilitator looks forward to promotion…

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 11:32 utc | 83

Jim Lobe at antiwar.com:
…the horrific experience of European Jewry in the 20th century, culminating as it did with the Nazi Holocaust, is critical to understanding the neoconservative mindset.
It is that experience – and the failure of the “international community” to do anything about it – that helps explain the good-and-evil moral categories, the obsession with military force, the disdain for multilateral institutions and international law and, ultimately, the necessity for the United States to be permanently engaged against foreign enemies lest it withdraw into isolationism which, like appeasement, helped pave the way for Hitler and the Holocaust, that make up the neoconservative worldview.

Posted by: Pat | Aug 5 2004 11:56 utc | 84

@Pat – thx, good thought
IRAQ is in full uproar (maybe nobody notices). There are fights against US troops all over Iraq – serious escalations and the steady stream of dead truck drivers takes care that there is no steady stream of logistics for US troops anymore.
Three dead, chopper downed in Najaf as British face “jihad” threat

Posted by: b | Aug 5 2004 12:26 utc | 85

On the subject of Afghanistan: There was an interesting op-ed in the Moscow Times some six months ago in which the author, a Russian analyst, stated that what success the US has been able to wring out of OEF has been due largely to two things America has in abundance and knows how to use: air power and money. I’ve brought this up before with individuals who’ve spent time on the ground there, and there’s little disagreement.
What I’ve heard is that when the money dries up, so will the goodwill (such goodwill as there is at this point). And the money WILL dry up. It’s simply too costly to sustain in the medium-to-long term. Invaluable cooperation can be and is bought; but as soon as you can’t or won’t pay your bill, the cooperation ends and you must head home.
There’s no reason to believe that this doesn’t apply in Iraq as well. And here I come back to an article I posted late last week on the financial unsustainabiliy of American empire. What may bode greater ill than too few troops for too many missions, is dwindling funds for same. I’m not talking “reconstruction” or even conventional defense funds – but disbursements that go under the heading of “other.” When you can no longer pony up, your welcome comes to an end, mission accomplished or no.
The position the White House has put us in is a distinctly unfavorable one, with two operations of extremely unequal value (to our defense) competing for a limited, and inevitably decreasing, amount of resources. Consider the volume of money that must also go to the purchase of nominal allies and not a few Coalition members for OIF. How much longer til the goodwill, as it were, runs out?
I never hear or read the neocons and their Republican friends addressing this.

Posted by: Pat | Aug 5 2004 13:02 utc | 86

Not so wonderful, wonderful Copenhagen
Danish army officer charged in Iraq prisoner abuse case
Of course she says she’s innocent – but they all say that. They’ve got a reputation for spinning stories those Danes, that Hans Christian Andersen was notorious for it. Let me at her, just for a couple of hours, I could soon have her singing like a canary…

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 13:09 utc | 87

hey pat, just wanted to say congrats on him arriving home safely.

Posted by: annie | Aug 5 2004 13:17 utc | 88

If you can’t catch the real ones, entrap the wannabes
FBI arrests two in Albany ‘missile case’
Agents provocateurs will doubtless help to heighten the ‘enemy in our midst’ fever in the US. Interestingly, considering his ubiquity, no mention is made in the article of the arch-fiend al-Zarqawi, who most definitely is a part of Ansar al-Islam. The old entrapment debates – “Well, we catch the types who would be willing to do something.” versus “Wouldn’t it be more useful to dedicate resources to actual threats instead of manufacturing ‘success stories’? – probably won’t even get a run out in a climate that seems to be creating a fertile ground for racial tension and, perhaps, internment.
Doubtless many people will be relieved that the ‘terrorists’ that US intelligence agencies have created especially for the news headlines have been ‘apprehended’. And doubtless those who really are plotting against the US will be cheered to know that while they do their thing the authorities are off manufacturing incidents and arrests to generate the illusion of efficiency. People get scared, people get arrested, people get praised, people are relieved, people are free to commit terrible acts undetected and unmolested, Presidents get re-elected – everybody wins.
Oh, except the rest of the people of America that is. Entrapment – it’s no substitute for detective work but it sure produces results, when you want them, where you want them and the media coverage is as good as if it was the real thing.

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 13:27 utc | 89

Thanks, annie.

Posted by: Pat | Aug 5 2004 13:30 utc | 90

In Afghanistan it´s not the money, it´s the question of who has more money. When this years opium has been sold, the warlords in Afghanistan will have more money than the US would ever be willing to give. The next step is then to get anti-air weapons. Those were the weapons the US gave to the warlords to help them to drive out the Russians and the same kind of weapons will be needed to make trouble for the US troops who do depend on helicopters just as the Russians did. Russia and China and a bunch of former Sowjet states have plenty and the black market will take care that they reach Afghanistan.
Iraq may not be decided on money, but on logistics. Oil will have problems to leave Iraq and anything else will have problems to come in – esp. to US troops. Here again anti-air weapons may be important. If the US further alliniates Iran, Syria, Turkey and Saudi Arabia there will be plenty of interests to take care for delivery.
It´s all a big colonial war race for commodities. The US, UK, Japan and AU are trying to secure as many oil reserves as possible before China and India have grown enough to hinder them. The time is not on the US side and all players know this. If India and China are smart (no big if), they will covertly support any resistance against these plans if the resistance itself is not able to win it alone. So far everything is playing into their hands. The US is dragged down into unwinable wars and as long as the US does not seriously (ground)attack Iran, everything is well for them.
The way out for the US would be to draw back miltarily and support all international efforts for a neutral oil policy in all oil owning countries. This would mean higher oil prices for all, but less total costs for the US as the military cost could sink some 100 billion a year.

Posted by: b | Aug 5 2004 13:39 utc | 91

Dome of sacred Imam Ali shrine in Najaf damaged in clashes – conflict spreads to other parts of Iraq
‘The cease-fire is over’ says Shiite spokesman
Somebody tell those US troops there’s an election coming up in November and Iraq is supposed to be off the media agenda until it’s over…

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 13:47 utc | 92

Fight dehydration – catch typhoid or hepatitis E
Deadly water poses risk in blistering Iraq heat

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 5 2004 14:11 utc | 93

b: I’m with you concerning India and China interested to support resistance. I just differ about Iran. A US ground assault on Iran would basically means the end of the American military power for years, at least, because most of the troops in the Middle East would be destroyed – that is, captured or killed. The only reason China or India wouldn’t want that is that it may embolden too much the Muslims.

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Aug 5 2004 14:27 utc | 94

Something to lighten the mood – just found this on Needlenose.
Outsourcing the Presidency
A humorous email circulating around, courtesy of Limey Buddy:
OUTSOURCING JOBS REACHES NEW HEIGHTS
by Staff Reporter Melynda Jill
Outsourcing the Presidency.
Washington DC – Congress today announced that the Office of President of the United States will be outsourced to overseas interests as of June30th, the end of this fiscal year. The move is being made to save $400K a year in salary, a record $521 Billion in deficit expenditures and related overhead. “The cost savings will be quite significant” says Congressman Adam Smith (D -Wash) who, with the aid of the GAO (theGeneral Accounting Office) has studied outsourcing of American jobs extensively. “We simply can no longer afford this level of outlay andremain competitive on the world stage”, Congressman Smith said.Mr. Bush was informed by email this morning of the termination of his position. He will receive health coverage, expenses and salary until hisfinal day of employment. After that, with a two week waiting period, he will then be eligible for $240 dollars a week from unemploymentinsurance for 13 weeks. Unfortunately he will not be able to receive state Medicaid health insurance coverage as his unemployment benefitsare over the required limit.Preparations have been underway for some time for the job move. Sanji Gurvinder Singh of Indus Teleservices, Mumbai, India will be assuming the Office of President of the United States as of July 1. Mr. Singh was born in the United States while his parents were here on student visas, thus making him eligible for the position. He will receive a salary of $320 (USD) a month but with no health coverage or other benefits. Due tothe time difference between the US and India, Mr. Singh will be working primarily at night, when offices of the US Government will be open”I am excited to serve in this position,” Mr. Singh stated in an exclusive interview. “Working nights will let me keep my day job at theAmerican Express call center. I always knew I could be President someday.! ”

Posted by: Fran | Aug 5 2004 14:39 utc | 95

Basra!

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 5 2004 16:04 utc | 96

@NEMO:
We appreciate your Herculean efforts to keep us informed.
I just saw something this morning that could possibly bring you up to speed on the American criminal justice system. Was reading case law in the South Fark Seconds, and thought of you.
The case is :
State v Tigger
Felony Child Molestation
The cite is here:
http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=1066922&ok=true

Posted by: Mr. Justice Lloyd | Aug 5 2004 16:11 utc | 97

From Imperial Hubris:
In the late 1980s, it is said, a senior US diplomat – speaking for a government that was donating billions of dollars to the mujahideen – met Jisbi Islami chief Yunis Khalis, a recipient of American largesse, and told him that because Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev was seriously considering the withdrawal of Soviet forces from Afghanistan, the insurgents should encourage Moscow by slowing combat activity. Khalis is said to have quietly responded: “No, we will kill them until they go.” Taken aback, the diplomat revised his argument, this time stressing that US and Western diplomatic activities were key to forcing a Soviet withdrawal, and that this pressure would be greater if the Afghans reduced attacks on the Red Army. Khalis, as he walked away, quietly said: “No, they will leave because we are killing them and we will kill them until they leave. If we keep killing them, they will go.”
[Pretty simple, no?]

Posted by: Pat | Aug 5 2004 16:39 utc | 98

@Pat, you’ve made great posts on this thread.
The one above this one sums it all up. The Arabs/Persians/Afghans are proud people, they want to run things the way they like it.
Were foreigners ever killed when the West had great contracts with Iraq, NO.
Where are foreigners (outside of the War in Iraq) being killed now?
The lynchpin of the ME crisis, bankrolling Israel and their destruction of Palestine and turning a blind eye to the Saudis.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 5 2004 17:38 utc | 99

The supposed Leader of the Free World speaks!

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 5 2004 19:04 utc | 100