Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
August 16, 2004
Off Topics – Open Thread
Comments

Baby Face Nelson’s Back
A GOOD BOOK

Posted by: Melvin Purvis | Aug 16 2004 12:05 utc | 1

FBI FOILS TERRORIST PLOTS IN LYNCHBURG AND VIRGINIA BEACH VIRGINIA
COURTESY ASZ NEWS SERVICE
LINK

Posted by: J. Edgar Hoover | Aug 16 2004 12:12 utc | 2

One more to win national elections because he is against Bush and the US.
Chávez Is Declared the Winner in Venezuela Referendum

Posted by: Fran | Aug 16 2004 15:29 utc | 3

So 70,000 troops coming home?
Why?
NATO dead?
Bush payback to Schroeder?
Some new war in the pipeline?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 15:39 utc | 4

It’s getting better and better!
Transportation: Putting on the Squeeze – A rash of insurgent attacks have made Iraq’s roads too dangerous for truckers to drive, threatening supply lines
And it gets even better!
Police fire at reporters as US tanks roll up to shrine
You won’t believe it – even better!
Offensive resumes in Najaf, prompting desertions of Iraqi troops
Gosh, I better stop now as this is getting just to good.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 16 2004 15:50 utc | 5

CP, probably all of them.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 16 2004 15:56 utc | 6

Imagine the reaction to telling people “patriotism is psychotic.”

the fundamental purpose of controlling the use of language (keeping discussion within a frame) is to limit the scope of thought; this is essential to social control. When you respond to an argument by using the terms defined by the framers, you have already lost. Lakoff uses the example of “tax relief,” used by Republicans to insinuate that taxes are an inherent affliction. Lakoff suggests that Democrats (and any opponents of the Republicans) counter the “tax relief” excuse of relieving affliction, as a cover for enriching the wealthy, by discussing the “dues” we owe as a patriotic duty to support freedom, democracy, and the American way. In Lakoff’s words,
I would say taxes are what you pay to be an American, to live in this country with democracy, with opportunity, and especially with the enormous infrastructure paid for by previous taxpayers — infrastructure like schools and roads and the Internet, the stock market, the Securities and Exchange Commission, our court system, our scientific establishment, which is largely supported by federal money. Vast amounts of important, marvelous infrastructure: all of these things were paid for by taxpayers. They paid their dues. They paid their fair share to be Americans and maintain that infrastructure. And if you don’t pay your fair share, then you’re turning your back on your country.

— Manuel García, Jr.

Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Aug 16 2004 15:57 utc | 7

Ok. this is the last one. Hopefully;^)
Findings Could Hurt U.S. Effort On Iran – U.N. Traces Uranium To Tainted Equipment

Posted by: Fran | Aug 16 2004 16:05 utc | 8

@Fran:
God, you aren’t related to NEMO, are you?
Keep ’em coming, the more the merrier!

Posted by: FH | Aug 16 2004 16:22 utc | 9

Is anybody else outraged by this:

Israeli prison officials are considering using jailhouse barbecues to entice hundreds of Palestinians prisoners to break a hunger strike launched this week to protest conditions, a spokesman said Monday.

As the protest continued into its second day Monday, prisons spokesman Ofer Lefler said authorities were considering grilling meats near the prisoners, hoping the enticing aroma would weaken their resolve.
“We look at psychological means to deal with problems like this,” Lefler said, saying the tactic has been used in other parts of the world. “Our interest is to return prisoners to eating as soon as possible.” He said no decision had been made on whether to begin the threatened cookouts.

Israel Weighs How to End Hunger Strikes

Posted by: b | Aug 16 2004 17:43 utc | 10

USA Today:
Stocks soar on oil news – Price drop buoys Dow, Nasdaq
CNN Money:
Markets surge in broad rally after several weeks of selling; oil off its high
Reuters:
Stocks Higher on Oil Price Relief
Current oil price 46.12 – 3% higher than a week ago and only 0.5% lower than Fridays close. How can that be a reason to rally stocks?

Posted by: b | Aug 16 2004 17:57 utc | 11

Carter: Observers Agree with Chavez Recall Results

Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter said on Monday international observers agreed that leftist President Hugo Chavez won an Aug. 15 recall referendum fairly despite opposition concerns over fraud in the vote.
Carter led a team of observers monitoring the referendum.

Congratulation Mr. Chavez!

Posted by: b | Aug 16 2004 17:59 utc | 12

FH, no – looking at NEMO’s last post, I don’t think I am related to him. I’d never be able to live up to his standard and amount of information.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 16 2004 18:06 utc | 14

@b, pork ribs?
The markets must know that Sadr and his band of freedom fighters are going to get stuffed now that the media cannot cover it.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 18:07 utc | 15

@ b:
Re:Barbecues
Novel Hunger strike breaking technique.
Hope they let them eat it after they break them.
Jesus.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 16 2004 18:14 utc | 16

Phone calls from Dick Cheney – what are they worth?
Halliburton says US Army suspends withhold threat
Fran,
You’re doing great! I love the way that people here share links and information – and literature and humor and personal insights too. The world may go mad but in our own ways we can always bite it back… And speaking of humor, I see that FlashHarry has quite a team working for him!
😉

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 16 2004 18:28 utc | 17

Young voters rapidly deserting Bush – poll

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 16 2004 18:44 utc | 18

RE: barbaric barbarcue
I don’t think this scheme will entice.
At least with short fasts: 3 days to a week, the body grows friendlier to the imposed denial.
As probably many of you know: The hardest day of a fast is the first day. Every day thereafter gets easier.
The psychology of a willful fast is far different than one imposed externally–for example by a famine.
I can’t speak to what happens to the mind with longer fasts…but…I suspect the will to persevere bites down on one’s hunger even harder.

Posted by: koreyel | Aug 16 2004 18:49 utc | 19

VATICAN CITY (AFP) – The Vatican has offered to mediate to avoid further bloodshed and destruction in the besieged Shiite holy city of Najaf, stronghold of leader Moqtada Sadr, the Vatican said Monday.
“If asked, John Paul II would gladly accept a mediation role,” the Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, told Italian public radio.
Sporadic fighting broke out early Monday with Sadr’s Mehdi Army as U.S.-backed Iraqi forces closed in for an expected major military assault on the rebels’ stronghold in the city’s shrine area. “It is very important that all the parties involved can talk around a table,” the cardinal said. “We request that the sacred nature of the city be respected.”
Pity we don’t have a young firebrand pope!

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 18:57 utc | 20

Any spot the main thing about the training picture here? €10 to the winner

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 19:11 utc | 21

Then came Custer Battles LLC

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 19:23 utc | 22

Following the links to Joe Bageant from another thread, I found this.
What we “accomplished” before we attacked them.

Posted by: beq | Aug 16 2004 19:35 utc | 23

@beq, started reading the Pilger piece, that you linked.
War Crimes?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 19:47 utc | 24

Custer Battles LLC
Now that is one hell of a cite:
Dabiel Dravitt and Peachy Carnehan, with Harvard MBAs.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 16 2004 19:48 utc | 25

CP: You mean, the one of Shiites in the shrine? Well, not sure. I tried to find some Iraqi police or army guy, there’s probably a few of them. Other than that, they’re pretty upset, but there’s no gun, rifle or RPG in sight, which at first sight makes them a crowd of armless citizens. Some probably have stored guns elsewhere (I mean, showing their guns in the Imam Ali Mosque may be a bit too much for pious Shiites), but it’s interesting to compare with many demonstrations of Hamas or Hizbullah for instance.
Not sure it’s what you wanted.

Posted by: Clueless Joe | Aug 16 2004 19:52 utc | 26

Joe, look at the pic again.
The American has rounds of ammo coming out of this ass, no magazine in the Iraqi weapon.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 19:59 utc | 27

Totally OT, but this is an OT thread…
Could anyone explain to me what the reference is to in the expression “Mayberry Machiavellis” which gained currency after DeIulio used it, because I don’t get it. Thanks!
Also OT, be sure to go read DeAnander’s fascinating text – and thread – on energy at the Annex.

Posted by: Jérôme | Aug 16 2004 20:08 utc | 28

@Jerome:
For the full flavor of Mayberry Maciavelli’s , just Google the phrase. It’s hard to explain.
@CP
8/10 Patrol too bunched up–Mortar round would get 5.
5/17 Ditto. Get 6-10.
7/27 Turning out Iraqi motorized infantry in 5 days–PRICELESS.
Lot of pictures there. Just guessing.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 16 2004 20:26 utc | 29

Jérôme
DeIulio’s use of the term ‘Mayberry Machiavellis referred to Karl Rove and his aides…
“….[DeIulio} called the White House a bunch of “Mayberry Machiavellis” (to the non-US folks, this refers to the old “Andy Griffith” comedy television show about a Southern sheriff and his bungling sidekick (Andy Griffith and Don Knotts), set in the fictional town of Mayberry)…
Source

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 16 2004 20:29 utc | 30

How can any journalist with any ethics work with this rag?

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 20:38 utc | 31

@NEMO:
How much training are the folks getting that we are turning out to engage the “insurgency”.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 16 2004 20:39 utc | 32

b,
You are right, we are being punked again. It just amazes me how this market suckers people in and then the hedge funds suck the money out.
Have other been being sent viruses? I seem to get them more frequent lately.
Bushie was in our area today. This idiot wouldn’t have a clue if it hit him in the forehead.
Has anyone been reading the articles about Ashcracks justice department and protesters. Their inside memo said questioning potential protesters didn’t violate free speech.

Posted by: jdp | Aug 16 2004 20:47 utc | 33

FH, my link must not have worked. Must go and try to fix.
Meanwhile a toast to Bernhard and Jerome for keeping things going (and for Nemo for all the great links.)
I can imagine Billmon drinking good whiskey while anchored in some bay and saying “It’s good to get away.” Hope he returns with with vengeance.
Night all.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 16 2004 20:48 utc | 34

RIDGE DECLARES LAVENDER TERROR ALERT
FULL STORY

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 16 2004 20:57 utc | 35

Nemo – thanks
Funny – when googling the expression, the first hit is a Billmon post (from January this year).
BTW – is there any intention to get Billmon to link to this site?

Posted by: Jérôme | Aug 16 2004 20:59 utc | 36

Juan Cole in an online questioning session with the WaPO. Good questions and good answers.

Posted by: b | Aug 16 2004 21:19 utc | 37

Way OT, but…..
Why Do the Rovians Hate the Boss So Much?
“ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) – Upset with Bruce Springsteen’s effort to oust President Bush from the White House, the New York Conservative Party’s candidate for the U.S. Senate is launching a “Boycott the Boss” television commercial…..
“….A spokesman for O’Grady, Howard Lim, would not say how much the Long Island’s ophthalmologist’s campaign was spending on the commercial, in which she says, “I stand with President Bush and it’s time to tame the liberal elite.”….
“…O’Grady, a conservative Republican, launched her campaign after Republican Gov. George Pataki and the state GOP’s leadership handed the party’s Senate nomination to Howard Mills, a little-known legislator who supports abortion rights and civil unions for gays. Polls have shown Schumer running far ahead of both O’Grady and Mills.”

Posted by: RossK | Aug 16 2004 21:37 utc | 38

The biter, bit
US ‘bounty hunter’ claims FBI links
Famous remembered words,often recalled in lonely, inhospitable prison cells all over the world in between bouts of catching, befriending, training to tap-dance, falling out with and then eating, cockroaches:
“Sure we’re behind you – 100% Do you think we’d leave you hanging out to dry if something went wrong with this thing? You have my word on this, we’re going to support you in every way that we can and if anything goes wrong we’ll square things, trust me. You think we’d abandon you when you’re doing such important work for our country? The USA doesn’t work that way and I guarantee you, we’ll look after you.

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 16 2004 21:48 utc | 39

Saddam Hussein shot dead in Iraq
”…Just hours earlier, an Iraqi national guard commander in Samarra was gunned down along with a senior aide.
Lieutenant Colonel Ihsan al-Saji and Captain Saddam Hussein were killed on the main highway north of Baghdad as they travelled to the capital, an interior ministry official said.
Al-Saji had “made alot of enemies” following repeated US-led anti-resistance operations in Samarra, most recently on Saturday…”
Iraqi groups claims Najaf spy captured
Thirty US soldiers killed in Iraq in August, so far

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 16 2004 22:19 utc | 40

Livin’ in a Gangsta’s Paradise…
”…The prime minister’s desire to invite Ayad Allawi to the Labour party’s annual conference is one of the odder stories to emerge since Tony Blair vanished into the gangster luxury of Berlusconi’s holiday home in Italy. Maybe the proximity to the sinister Italian premier has skewed Blair’s sense of what is right and what is possible in British politics…”
A history of blood and deception
Blair faces Labour conference walkout over invitation to Iraqi Prime Minister
Najaf, city of defiance

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 16 2004 23:56 utc | 41

Being as the pony show er, I mean the debates are coming up, is anybody familiar with Denise Breton and Chris Largent, authors of the book
“The Paradigm Conspiracy”
well, the most favorite part of this book for me has a section on Debate vs Dialog that is very thought Provoking. Don’t let the title of the book put you off the subtitle is : “How Our Social Systems Violate Human Potential”

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 17 2004 1:48 utc | 43

“We ain’t scared of your steenkin’ threats!”
Iran will go ahead with its nuclear plan – Khamenei

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 2:47 utc | 44

Not a serious topic, but remember the link to Wonkette that Billmon had a while back, with exerpts from Washingtonienne’s blog about the married republicans (and others) she was boinking? Well… Washingtonienne was outed
Interesting article. She’s lost her job. The guys have kept theirs.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 17 2004 3:14 utc | 45

Wonkette asks which man paid for sex with Washingtonienne.
Funny.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 17 2004 3:24 utc | 46

“We ain’t scared of your steenkin’ threats!”
@Nemo, or anyone, does anybody remember a flash/animation? a while back that had a prediction of what the nuclear missle war was going to look like in the ME (middle east)it was one of blank attacking blank and then blank attacking blank because blank attacked blank…something to that effect… anyone? grrrr I wish I could remember it.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 17 2004 3:25 utc | 47

Actually, I think calling the Bush junta the Mayberry Machiavellians is an insult to Mayberry…and I cannot think of one of them that could be Sheriff Andy Taylor.
Bush could fall right into the role of Otis, though Rove looks like Otis.
Jerome- Otis was the town drunk who would lock himself into the jail cell at night, btw.
Try googling The Andy Griffith Show instead and you’ll get info on the source of the characterization.
It’s been on tv forever it seems, because of cable that’s kept it constantly on reruns. The black and white version is the best.
Opie (Andy’s son) was played by Ron Howard, who went on to a really really annoying show, Happy Days, and then became a director of movies like Apollo 13.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 17 2004 3:44 utc | 48

Al Quds al Arabi (in London), reports that Iraqi sources are claiming the presence of Israeli officers with the American troops who are besieging and attacking Najaf. An Iranian satellite TV station Al’alam has also reported that 11 Israeli officers are involved at Najaf. While these ‘sources’ may be rumor-based, and I have no doubt that there are those who ‘see Israelis everywhere’, and while it is true that Iran might have its own reasons for levelling accusations at Israel, if there were any truth in the reports it will not help tensions in the region.
Perhaps the expulsion of journalists from Najaf has created a climate where such reports can be made and gain acceptance, perhaps the expulsion is not unconnected to the possible presence of Israeli officers well practiced in rooting out people from confined spaces and tunnels, perhaps there is no basis to the reports at all. I only have a link for Al Quds al Arabi that provides an Arabic account of the reports – as is so often the case in a situation where rumor and propaganda abound, whether true or not it is the very existence and circulation of the allegations that is likely to escalate suspicion and ill-feeling. I guess the link is of no practical use to many but here it is, just to let you know what people in the Arab world are being told.
Israelis at Najaf?
@ Uncle $cam
I do not know the thing to which you refer but if it is any comfort to you (?) here is a reference to a report where ”…On its front page, Al-Hayat had an important off-lead story, this time related to Iraq’s neighbor Iran, under the headline: “Tehran: Israeli Installations Are Within Range of Our Missiles.” The threat came in a statement yesterday by a senior official in the Revolutionary Guards that Iran was “capable of hitting all nuclear and military installations in Israel, in the event Iranian territory and installations were attacked by Israel.” This came amid growing anxiety in the Middle East that Israel may try to destroy Iran’s nuclear facilities in order to prevent it from developing atomic weapons. It also came just days after the Iranians said they had successfully tested a Shehab-3 missile, which has a range of up to 1,700 kilometers. The Revolutionary Guards, which is among the most radical institutions in Iran, were recently given Shehab-3s….
Coupled with consideration of the item you mention, the term ‘Domino effect’ could easily mutate into a reaction that was not quite what its advocates intended….

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 3:48 utc | 49

oops. that was me with the Washingtonienne posts and the one about Mayberry.

Posted by: fauxreal | Aug 17 2004 4:06 utc | 50

Was it this one End of the World, Uncle?

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Aug 17 2004 4:12 utc | 51

Be sure to have your sound turned up… the narration is priceless. 😉

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Aug 17 2004 4:13 utc | 52

@ FlashHarry
Forgive the lateness of this reply, but I overlooked your earlier question – apologies.
How much training are the local ‘counter-insurgency’ forces getting, you ask.
A good question, and the answer contains considerations that are not good ones for America.
Aside from the rapid ‘square-bashing’, ‘weapons training’ ‘check-point manning’ ‘joint patrolling’ courses, which last a number of months and which also include lectures on intelligence acquisition, the law, fieldcraft, security et cetera, there are squads being trained in ‘special forces’ kind of work. So far so good. The caliber of recruit ranges from raw beginners to seasoned ex-Iraqi army personnel and from start to finish the training succeeds to an extent in producing a disciplined enough body of men with each cohort drilled.
Efficiency, capability and morale are all hostage to the amount and quality of equipment, and here things start to crumble somewhat. In addition, a reluctance on the part of many of the new forces to fire upon their fellow Iraqis has prompted mutinies and mass desertions.
And here things crumble more. It is not, perhaps, high on the list of American worries – who misses a few cowardly deserting ragheads after all? – but thus far they have signally failed to correlate increasing Iraqi resistance capabilities with the onset of intensified American training of locals and subsequent desertions.
Yes, you have it. All the fieldcraft, the military dispositions, the patrol patterns, the preferences for ‘X’ or ‘Y’ ambushes according to topography and terrain, the set-piece responses to Iraqi Resistance ambushes, the set-piece responses and disposition of troops during bomb alerts, protests, post-attack incidents et cetera, the intelligence gathering briefings, the weak spots on Humvees and Strykers, the armaments of each tank, fighting vehicle and platoon, the bomb disposal techniques, the communications techniques and channels – all this information is leaking out of the gate and into the clandestine training programs of the Iraqi Resistance with each wave of desertions.
While it is true that the Americans can rely more on some of their Kurdish levies, and while it is true that they do have Iraqi special forces, a by-product of the American training is that it has been adopted and adapted by the very Iraqi Resistance the Americans are fighting against.
I believe such leakage is usually classified under ‘intelligence and technology transfer’.
Now friend, you tell me – how good is that?
😉

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 4:13 utc | 53

Hackworth has got a new one up. The guy can definitely throw punches with both hands.
Here is a fascinating couple of paragraphs:

This isn’t the first time Kerry’s been sniped at. Joe Klein wrote in The New Yorker that Nixon aide Charles Colson formed the Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace in 1971 solely to attack John Kerry.

Colson told Klein that Kerry “was a thorn in our flesh. He was very articulate, a credible leader of the opposition. He forced us to create a counterfoil. We found a vet named John O’Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O’Neill meet the president, and we did everything we could do to boost his group.”

Klein’s original New Yorker piece is a long read.
It was my first deep peer into Kerry’s complex persona. I distinctly remember saying–after finishing the article in the Arizona winter sunshine– “This is the only guy that can beat Bush.”
Well here we are almost nine months later, and I am starting to doubt that Bush is actually going to be redefeated.
The goons are pulling out all stops. They are masters at rewriting the past. And they are masters at planting a simple artful trope into the electorate’s frontal lobes.
Just as Gore invented the Internet…Kerry is a nothing but a flip-flopper.
Call their technique: KiSSS
Keep it Simple Slander for Stupid.
That’s how Republicans win elections.
If their 11th commandment is “Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow republicans” their 12th is: “All Republicans shall work a simple slander together.”
Thus every right blogger, nut columnist and puerile pundit repeats the phrase: flip-flopper.
Just as they didn’t quit on their Gore theme, so they don’t flip-flop on their flip-flopping meme.
They are very good at group think.
Do you suppose 100 years from now…Gore will appear in the Britannica as the creator of the Internet and Kerry as a major acrobat?
No I am not kidding. That’s how good they are.
Last election I remember talking with some fellow Americans who had absolutely zilch going on behind their eyes. Yet they knew that “Gore was a liar ’cause he said he invented the Internet.”
How did that poison acorn get planted in those squirrel brains?
So yes the republicans are good. So good they are baaaad.
The question is: are they good enough to get a certifiable low-brow brute re-elected President?
~~~~~~~~~~
MarcinGomulka:
Thanks for that fine quote.
~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: koreyel | Aug 17 2004 4:17 utc | 54

I coulden’t believe my eyes when I saw the headlines on the site of my webserver:
US Government does not accept Chavez win The article is in German. Here a fast translation of the first paragraph from the sda (swiss news service):
The US foreign office appreciates the work of the election observers of the OAS as well as of former ex-president Jimmy Carter. Their conclusions, however, can not be accepted by the foreign office in Washington, as the speaker Tom Casey explained.
I mean who do they think they are. Interesting when scanning through the headlines this morning I did find nothing else on this.Has anyone seen more on this?
Ok. now I have to get going, work is waiting.

Posted by: Fran | Aug 17 2004 4:20 utc | 55

No no kate, and all, I found it… It’s a little out of date, but you still get the picture and it’s chilling…
But that flash rawks too kate…lmfao!

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 17 2004 4:29 utc | 56

Offensive stalls on need to negotiate – Iraq can’t ignore rebel cleric’s power
Useful analysis with input from an Iraqi academic who has spent much of his life in Najaf, now teaching in the US, plus obligatory frothing from a right-wing nut American academic.

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 4:48 utc | 57

Training the military
Unemployed? Want to earn $11.25 an hour taunting American soldiers?
Hell, I’d do it for free!

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 4:59 utc | 58

Torture architect defends his tactics
ABU GHRAIB, Iraq, Aug. 16 — The general in charge of detention operations in Iraq defended his recommendation, made last fall, that military police at the prison here work closely with military intelligence, saying the procedure was still being followed and had not led to abuse of prisoners.
Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, whose proposals were criticized in a report on mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, said in an interview this weekend that abuses were caused by “a small number of leadership and small number of soldiers who violated regulations and procedures and committed criminal acts….”
Abu Ghraib policy defended – having MPs assist Intelligence didn’t cause abuse, General Says

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 5:10 utc | 59

Awwwww,
This made me want to curl-up and cry….
I want my mommy! ;-(

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 17 2004 5:57 utc | 60

Nemo,
re: Your link to Robert Collier
In Nicaragua, El Salvador, Angola, Mozambique and the Balkans, the United States has waged war — either directly or through local proxy forces — and finally supported peace negotiations that gave amnesty to its foes and allowed them to gain significant chunks of local power through democratic elections.
Refeshing to see a journalist with a grasp of history. The number of people killed by US actions in Angola and Mozambique makes Iraq seem like the Hatfields and the McCoys.

Posted by: biklett | Aug 17 2004 6:06 utc | 61

@Uncle
If you want to discuss your Awwwww, or mommy,
you really ought to seach out Dr. Seuss, or Dr.
Freud.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 17 2004 7:00 utc | 62

Koreyel
Could it be………..that what we are talking about here……….under the guise of election year politics……….is really a (not so subliminal ) sense that the bedrock cultural identity that so many have sweated blood to achieve, is now being reformed and reshaped into a zero-sum banality of self aggrandizement and sentimentality?
Could it be………..that fleet of mind sensation of real art is slowly being prevaricated, bricked up and shut up buy a blanket of loyality and fear laid across the nation?
Could it be……….that unsettling notion that the progressive in all of the arts, have been eshewed with a vengence by the minions of fascism, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and on.
Could it be…………that the opposition here has no enlightenment to make, they can show no great poem, no great painting, no great song, no great story, or great film. That they have no mirror that sees beyond the self.
And could it be …….that is why we rage against the coming of the night?

Posted by: anna missed | Aug 17 2004 7:07 utc | 63

Connecting dots… until particles turn to waves.
Greg Palast writes about “socialist” renaissance in Venezuela.

Posted by: fiumana bella | Aug 17 2004 7:11 utc | 64

Israeli imperialism: Sharon Approves 1,000 Settlement Homes in W.Bank

JERUSALEM (Reuters) – Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has approved building tenders for 1,000 homes in Jewish settlements in the West Bank frozen earlier to avoid upsetting the United States, political sources said on Tuesday.
A political source said the move aimed to defuse resistance in Sharon’s Likud party to his Gaza pullout plan and to bring center-left proponents into his coalition. Likud members are to convene on Wednesday to vote on a link-up with the Labour party.
The sources said the tender package did not flout recent understandings with Washington that any new homes would be built within existing construction lines. But a U.S.-backed “road map” plan for peace between Israel and Palestinians stipulates a freeze on “all settlement activity” in occupied territory.

The US of course will do nothing.

Posted by: b | Aug 17 2004 7:33 utc | 65

Motherfuckers! : If You’re On “The List”, No Job For You This shit is really hard to believe. A healthy fear of terrorists is one thing — and an understandable reaction to feelings of remorse over creating them — but scrambling to make the most of the opportunity to be a wingnut asshole is another. Anyone familiar with the human tendency to screw up huge databases, use them for personal agendas and cretinously leave them vulnerable knows where this is headed.
Those wicked evildoers who already know how to manipulate databases will continue to do so. Those who fit some control freak’s profile of of terrorist will be inconvenienced by stays with torturers, er, I mean concerned interrogators. Any spineless or vengeful boss can make your life miserable. One data entry can ruin your life. How many enthusiastic, well-paid “keypunch operators” do you know? “Oops!” is not an acceptable reponse to trashing someone’s existence.
If one takes these idiots at their word and believe this really is designed to “fight terrorism”, one could easily conclude the planners are suffering from malignant self-regard. There is no way they can pull off a system that’s not going to get people hurt. I am shocked, shocked, to see this crackpot approach to serious problems. This is what happens when an elite is allowed to select for gladhanding and a childishly predatory view of humans.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 17 2004 7:51 utc | 66

@b
This could end in sanctions

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 17 2004 8:02 utc | 67

Didn’t know where to put this one. Interesting article about Chavez and the US by Greg Palast.
Dick Cheney, Hugo Chavez, and Bill Clinton’s band – Why Venezuela has voted again for their ‘negro e indio’ president

Posted by: Fran | Aug 17 2004 14:47 utc | 68

Thanks, Fran. Viva Chavez! But I wish Palast would lighten up (no pun intended) on blonds. Nothing like perpetuating a stereotype. He’s brilliant otherwise. 🙂

Posted by: beq | Aug 17 2004 15:27 utc | 69

@anna missed
You didn’t miss at all. They are artless and angry–a lethal combo that has never augured well.
Reminds me of the line photographer Ansel Adams used to describe the Reagan White House: Men who know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
@Fran.
The article links to a question Jérôme asked a while back: Who gets the (higher) oil price money?
If the figures presented are correct, we are truly a nation of oil vampires–sucking the life out from under the people who are the poorest.
But then too, the real diseased heart of the piece is the lurker in the background: Cheney in his bunker–even now, one can imagine–plotting Chavez’s assassination on the one hand and engineering Nader’s inclusion on the ballot with the other.
Suggestion for the next Bond movie villain: a rogue VP takes over a the White House and plans world conquest from a bunker. Can 007 save the world form 43’s right hand man?

Posted by: koreyel | Aug 17 2004 16:02 utc | 70

@koreyel:
Re:007
Think Snake Plisken could do the job better.

Posted by: Anonymous | Aug 17 2004 17:17 utc | 71

Camper Van Beethoven’s new concept album, New Roman Times will be a timely political statement. “Wacko-grape-koolaid-drinking-fascist-homophobe-Christian-right-winger-cretins vs. smart, tolerant and decent people.”

Posted by: b real | Aug 17 2004 17:32 utc | 72

Bad foundations – the house that Uncle Sam built
BAGHDAD (AFP) – Furious national conference delegates accused the main political parties of hijacking a scheduled vote for a new interim legislature for Iraq, saying most members were chosen long ago in secret.
Several hundred delegates threatened to quit the conference on its last day unless the voting mechanism was changed, before Fuad Maasum, head of the event’s preparatory committee, agreed to put the voting procedure itself to a vote.
“The mainstream political parties have dominated the conference and have already drawn up their lists for selecting the national council,” said Aziz al-Yasseri, from the broad coalition National Democratic Movement….
Protestors accuse political bigwigs of hijacking Iraq’s interim legislature

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 17:36 utc | 73

on oil: Newsday: 1.3 billion reasons to worry about oil

All these are disquieting harbingers of Beijing’s coming conflict with the United States over oil. It will come sooner than expected and the United States is not prepared for it. This president or his successor must, at the very least, alert the nation about its consequences, initiate a national conversation about it and encourage a program of energy conservation to alleviate the obvious economic pressures we will all face.
China’s need for oil is the proverbial 800-pound gorilla in the room, and no one seems willing to confront it or even acknowledge it — until it’s too late.

Posted by: b | Aug 17 2004 18:37 utc | 74

b/ernhard – is there a way we could have a permanent energy thread? The subject is going to keep us all busy in the coming years and weeks…

Posted by: Jérôme | Aug 17 2004 18:48 utc | 75

So 70,000 troops coming home?
US army is overstretched, not enough soldiers, only point is to grab more bodies to fight. Won’t come home, be posted here and there in function of capabilities.
— Scraping the bottom of the barrel : Luis, 57, with cancer, half deaf, high blood pressure, called up from the Reserve:
Link

Posted by: Blackie | Aug 17 2004 18:53 utc | 77

I’m involved in a big argument on the BBC MB about the Neocon call to boycott The Boss.
Here’s the lyrics from “Born in the USA”
Born down in a dead man’s town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that’s been beat too much
‘Til you spend half your life just covering up
[chorus:]
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I got in a little hometown jam
And so they put a rifle in my hands
Sent me off to Vietnam
To go and kill the yellow man
[chorus]
Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man says “Son if it was up to me”
I go down to see the V.A. man
He said “Son don’t you understand”
[chorus]
I had a buddy at Khe Sahn
Fighting off the Viet Cong
They’re still there, he’s all gone
He had a little girl in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms
Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I’m ten years down the road
Nowhere to run, ain’t got nowhere to go
I’m a long gone Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.
I’m a cool rocking Daddy in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Aug 17 2004 19:11 utc | 78

Any spot the main thing about the training picture here? 10 to the winner
CP I can’t guess what you are after exactly, but all those kinds of pictures represent:
1) the Iraquis as poor, backward, massed: they are low in the image, the women are dressed in shrouds, crowds with banners are figured, often prayers are pictured with people bent over. When in the front, grinning or laughing people are shown presenting clumsy slogans in English, or in weird impenetrable Arabic; their poor teeth and clothes are emphasised, a background of dust and desolation, or dilapidated housing is subtly put forward…. Or weeping, screaming, praying women who did not wish to be photographed are shown, against a backdrop of ruins. It all reminds me of Palestine. Interiors are hardly ever shown, as that would make Iraqis seem human – they have dining tables, stoves, children who do homework, TVs and nice pictures on the wall like anyone.
2) US soldiers are shown front stage, looking resolute, determined, equipped, clean bright and smart, or again, massed, but always in contrast to their surroundings (dust, dirt, poor housing, burning cars, etc.) Their teeth tend to be impeccable, their expressions neutral or sympathetic. And they are armed, big time.
I was thrown off a US board once for posting picture of a crying US soldier (head only). There was a vote. The majority voted to ban me as the picture was considered ‘provocative’ and ‘not useful’, ‘polemical’. Feelings ran very high. I also received a storm of email from dissenters. The picture was standard war photography, beautifully done. Therefore the reaction – the power of pictures, yes.

Posted by: Blackie | Aug 17 2004 20:15 utc | 79

@nemo – the picture Street Scene, An Najaf
The front two vehicles in the pictures are HMMVs with improvised armor to make them open top infranty carriers. This is ridiculous – even the sowjets did away with these – one handgranate, and the group is toast – just don´t ask what an RPG will do. That is what Bradleys were made for.
These GI´s must feel totally screwed. All the money that goes to the military budget and they drive around in this crap in a fighting zone.
@CP – no one can boycott the boss …

Posted by: b | Aug 17 2004 20:17 utc | 80

“…It’s arrogant of us to go into a country and tell them what kind of government to have…”
US public opinion on Iraq
US Army snipers from 1st Cavalry Division at work, Camp Eagle, outskirts of Sadr City, Baghdad, August 16th
On left is Aaron McAlister, from Maypearl Texas and on right is Chuck Ayars, from Nashville Tennessee.
Grenade and RPG fodder – US troops on evening patrol, Najaf, August 17th
Ambush in Ramadi
Profiles of the American dead at Ramadi
“..…U.S. soldiers and Marines have stopped patrolling large swaths of Anbar…..”
British soldier killed in Basra
Iraqi conference emissaries leave Najaf shrine without meeting al-Sadr

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 21:35 utc | 81

Can 007 save the world form 43’s right hand man?
Gee…I thought for sure someone was going to write: Not as long as Tony Blair is playing the role of the mojo-less Austin Powers (you know with the bad hair and the horse teeth it’s a damn near perfect fit).
anon@1:17
Thanks for extending my knowledge base. One of the sweetest things about Wikipedia is that it has all sorts of things you won’t find in the more famous Macropedia with a thistle on the cover:
Snake Plissken
@Jérôme and @bernhard–> I second the permanent energy thread.

Posted by: koreyel | Aug 17 2004 21:52 utc | 82

@NEMO:
Re:Grenade and RPG fodder Picture.
Though it was welded on some, this looks like a death trap about 5 different ways.
NEMO, If you want to go out FARKING one night, don’t ride in one of those pieces of shit.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 17 2004 22:03 utc | 83

Kate Storm @ 12:12-
Thanks for the “End of the World”! Had to get away from the blinking filters before I could see it. WTF. =)

Posted by: beq | Aug 17 2004 22:21 utc | 84

Promises, promises, – the ‘War to end all wars’
The origins of terror – A war that is profoundly responsible for the world as it is today
@ FlashHarry
Waaaaaaaay upthread is my reply to your ‘training question’ Another question for you – what is ‘farking’? Is it halal?

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 17 2004 22:29 utc | 85

@b real
props on dropping the new CVB album- I’m a fan from way back.
Otherwise too brain dead lately to catch up to this thread… m u s t f i n i s h t h e s i s…
cheers, all-

Posted by: æ | Aug 17 2004 22:39 utc | 86

“No, don’t tell me – lemme guess what it is. Hmmm, sure beats the hell outta me – gimme a clue. A what? A working man uses it? And just what in tarnation is a working man? Do you mean we still got slaves who work here in Ridley Park, Pennsylvania? What’s wrong with robots? They’re what? Taxes? Ha ha ha! That’s brilliant! Who thought of it? Karl? OK, somebody take this here shiny stick and let’s blow this PWT town.

Posted by: Is this a dagger I see before me | Aug 17 2004 22:55 utc | 87

To koreyel:
Language framing is a fundamental problem, which is very difficult to escape. If you want to be honest in a discussion, you answer the question directly. Which is the first mistake.
I run every day into fierce quasi-republican neoliberalism advocates on polish forums. They have only know the example of a one-party soviet-block state and assume that the total opposite must be the only right way.
Unfortunately 80% of Poles do not have access to the internet so they cannot take part in the discussion. They are too poor. During the last years of capitalism 1996 – 2001 poverty has actually doubled. from 4,3% to 9,5%. (below the minimum of existence).
http://www.ips.uw.edu.pl/serwis/ubostwo.htm

Posted by: MarcinGomulka | Aug 17 2004 23:06 utc | 88

@NEMO:
WAAAAAY upthread we have a lot to talk about. I want to understand all this thoughly. And I have some business paperwork to do tonight. Perhaps another night.
Fark.com is an American news service. I thought I had already introduced you to it. If not you should check it out.
Of course it is halal, and probably kosher too.
Take care, my friend.
Night All.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 17 2004 23:20 utc | 89

just changed from s.bell to all cable conections
had a call from india from s.bell to give me a sales pitch.i said no thankyou but pray for us we need to vote kerry,to which she giggled,yelped to
those around her who all yelled kerry kerry. i guess i’ve found a new way to deal with oneline sales men

Posted by: onzaga | Aug 18 2004 1:53 utc | 90

Winning hearts and minds – all in a night’s work
”…You are my friend!” he said he shouted. “This is Operation Iraqi Freedom! You are my friend!”
A soldier pointed a rifle at him, al-Rawi recalled, and ordered, “Shut up or I’ll kill you!…”
For one family, ‘Judgment Day’

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 18 2004 4:42 utc | 91

Marines picked Najaf fight without Pentagon’s OK

NAJAF, Iraq — Just five days after they arrived here to take over from U.S. Army units that had encircled Najaf since an earlier confrontation in the spring, new Marine commanders decided to smash guerrillas loyal to the rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
In recent interviews, the Marine officers said they turned a firefight with al-Sadr’s forces on Aug. 5 into a eight-day pitched battle — without the approval of the Pentagon or senior Iraqi officials. It was fought out in bloody skirmishes in an ancient cemetery that brought them within rifle shot of the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiite Islam’s holiest shrine. Eventually, fresh Army units arrived from Baghdad and took over Marine positions near the mosque, but by then the politics of war had taken over and the U.S. force had lost the opportunity to storm al-Sadr’s troops around the mosque.

As a reconstruction of the battle in Najaf shows, the sequence of events was strikingly reminiscent of the battle of Fallujah in April. In both cases, newly arrived Marine units immediately confronted guerrillas in firefights that quickly escalated. And in both cases, the U.S. military failed to achieve its strategic goals, pulling back after the political costs of the confrontation rose.

Interesting – now it was the marines who screwed up. This may be possible, but I have my doubts – even gung-ho marine commanders need cover from higher up. Maybe someone at the Pentagon has a short cut to the marines?

Posted by: b | Aug 18 2004 8:07 utc | 92

Put your seat belts on! get ready for one hell of a ride…
——-
“Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories concerning the
attacks of September the 11th..”
–President Bush, speaking to the United Nations.

Posted by: Uncle $cam | Aug 18 2004 8:11 utc | 93

Eyes on Venezuela
Xymphora wrote: Can you imagine what politics would be like in the United States if there was a political party willing and able to mobilize the American poor to protest and to vote?
Viva El Liberator: In Venezuela there is an attempt to show that there is a division. The only division is between the majority who favour the constitution and a tiny group that is against the sovereignty of the people that is guaranteed in the constitution. This group of coup plotters is being financed by international capital, transnational companies and a national oligarchy that is still very strong. But they never thought that the people would defend the constitution in the way that they did.

Posted by: fiumana bella | Aug 18 2004 8:29 utc | 94

The link above at 4:07 was not to the full article. The real one is at the NYT: 8-Day Battle for Najaf: From Attack to Stalemate
More very interesting bits:

Senior officers in Baghdad, as well White House officials who discussed the battle in Washington, say the latest fighting began when a Marine patrol drove directly past one of Mr. Sadr’s houses in Najaf – violating an informal agreement that American units would stay away from Mr. Sadr’s strongholds, treating them as part of an “exclusion zone” that was at the heart of the cease-fire in the city.

.. Ambassador John D. Negroponte, the top American official in Iraq, “decided to pursue the case,” one official said.

Marine commanders in Najaf acknowledge that they did little planning for the battle, but say they gambled that they could reach the walls of the Old City so fast that they would outrun the political firestorm sure to result.

the division did not know until the last minute that the 1,800 marines in Najaf might need reinforcements.

But with the Army battalion unprepared to fight Saturday, the marines decided to retreat.

In Baghdad, commanders seemed curiously disconnected. On Monday, Aug. 9, a senior military official told reporters that American forces had cut off Mr. Sadr’s forces in the Old City and the cemetery from the rest of Najaf. But no cordon existed, and none would be set up until Thursday, when the second Army battalion arrived.

The fight became a stalemate.

“We put a major hurt on his hard-core militia members,” Major Holahan said. “Things happened pretty well from a military point of view.”

Mr. Sadr appeared to have once again withstood American threats and firepower.

Now that´s the way to run an empire:
– troops act in a sensitive area without regards of political questions
– the Pro-Consul decides to pursue, not the “souvereign” pseudo king
– commanders don´t plan before taking action, they gamble
– higher ups don´t know whats happening
– reenforcements are not ready to fight
– central command doesn´t know shit about whats happening
– the military initiative is lost
– anyhow the troops are full of self illusion
– the political fight is lost
This reinforces my experience and learned opinion from the 1980s that the US military is a good equipped force, but has the most uneducated, incompetent and overweening middle management possible.
Reading the above article and keeping in mind that the supply situation is in terrible shape – nearly no trucks come through when several thousands are needed per day – I believe the situation for the US has deteriorated much faster than thought and reported and will turn to be untenable within a few weeks.

Posted by: b | Aug 18 2004 8:48 utc | 95

@Uncle $cam 4:11 – seat belts
Fantastic link!

Posted by: b | Aug 18 2004 9:06 utc | 96

Oh brother! Procrustean prosecutions – Number 29,456, 392

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. prosecutors have found a possible translation error in a key piece of evidence in the case against two leaders of a New York mosque accused of supporting terrorism, a Justice Department spokesman said on Wednesday….

….U.S. authorities had previously said an address book found in what they called a terrorist training camp in northern Iraq in June 2003 referred to Aref as “the commander,” but the Justice Department spokesman said FBI translators now thought the Kurdish word actually meant “brother…”

…The New York Times quoted Nijyar Shemdin, the U.S. representative for the Kurdistan Regional Government in Washington, as saying he did not see how a translation would have come up with the word “commander.” He also said Aref was referred to with the common honorific “kak,” which could mean brother or mister…

Translation error found in NY terror sting case
Lynchings were so less problematic…

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 18 2004 18:39 utc | 97

Anyone remember a place called Abu Ghraib?
US soldiers shoot two Abu Ghraib detainees dead

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 18 2004 18:43 utc | 98

@NEMO:
1.How many troops have been turned out throughtout Iraq to today that have had 2-4 months of intensive US taught basic light infantry .
2.It seems to me that Iraq would need a force of 150000 to 250000, perhaps dived equally between light infantry and paramilitay police, to both support the new Iraqi goverment when it is elected, to engage what’s left of the insurgency after elections, and to provide border security and deter outside aggressors.
3. It’s inexcusable that the new army don’t have flack jackets and good helments, but you see the crap our people ride around in.
Would appreciate you thoughts on these matters.

Posted by: FlashHarry | Aug 18 2004 19:33 utc | 99

FlashHarry
“…It was not immediately clear if the Iraqi army and a multitude of other security forces created in the wake of the March 2003 US-led invasion would be capable of independently dealing with Sadr’s Mehdi Army that draws its recruits from impoverished young Shiites.
Rumsfeld insisted the forces available to the interim Iraqi government now counted about 200,000 men, of which 110,000 “probably are well-trained and well equipped.”
But Republican chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Richard Lugar warned Sunday that if the the Iraqi government decided to take on Sadr on its own, it would be “a close contest.”
“It’s touch-and-go whether they are trained enough — that is, the Iraqi police — to take on Sadr now in Najaf,” Lugar told Fox News.
A recent US congressional investigation has found Iraqi security forces are “unready” to fight insurgents because their units remain inadequately trained, underequipped and suffer from a high desertion rate.
As many as 82 percent of personnel deserted from Iraqi Civil Defense Corps units deployed in Western Iraq and around Fallujah last April, when anti-American guerrillas launched a spate of deadly strikes against coalition forces, according to a report released in late June by the Government Accountability Office.
The desertion rate reached 49 percent in corps units deployed in and around Baghdad, while in towns like Baqubah, Tikrit, Karbala, Najaf and Kut, it stood at 30 percent….”
US pulls punch again
As I pointed out above, many, many of the ‘deserters’ take their training and utilize it in their new role as drill instructors for the Iraqi resistance. This not only results in the loss of personnel and an increase in Iraqi resistance numbers – details of all the tactics, strengths and weaknesses of the US trained forces are being given to the Iraqi resistance fighters. While it is sporting of the US military to train the opposition this way it will, ultimately, prove to be a severe problem for them as any sane observer might imagine.

Posted by: Nemo | Aug 18 2004 20:25 utc | 100