The kids don’t want to be here anymore
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July 3, 2004
Open Thread III – Long Weekend
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From todays Pravda at the Potomac Soldiers Charged in Drowning – Iraqis Reportedly Forced Into River
The Army charged three soldiers with manslaughter and a fourth with assault in connection with an incident in January in which they forced two Iraqi detainees to jump into the Tigris River.
The investigation would not have reached this point, if not for the power of the blogsphere. Zeyad of Healing Iraq was the first to report it and to press the issue. Kudos to him.
BBC reporting a big bomb making factory found and a pipeline in the south just bombed.
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 3 2004 9:01 utc | 2
WASHINGTON (AFP) – Several members of the House of Representatives have requested the United Nations (news – web sites) to send observers to monitor the November 2 US presidential election to avoid a contentious vote like in 2000, when the outcome was decided by Florida.
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 3 2004 9:06 utc | 3
SHOCKING REVELATION – WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT?
US Army stage-managed fall of Hussein statue
The Army’s internal study of the war in Iraq criticizes some efforts by its own psychological operations units, but one spur-of-the-moment effort last year produced the most memorable image of the invasion.
As the Iraqi regime was collapsing on April 9, 2003, Marines converged on Firdos Square in central Baghdad, site of an enormous statue of Saddam Hussein. It was a Marine colonel — not joyous Iraqi civilians, as was widely assumed from the TV images — who decided to topple the statue, the Army report said. And it was a quick-thinking Army psychological operations team that made it appear to be a spontaneous Iraqi undertaking.
After the colonel — who was not named in the report — selected the statue as a “target of opportunity,” the psychological team used loudspeakers to encourage Iraqi civilians to assist, according to an account by a unit member.
But Marines had draped an American flag over the statue’s face.
“God bless them, but we were thinking … that this was just bad news,” the member of the psychological unit said. “We didn’t want to look like an occupation force, and some of the Iraqis were saying, ‘No, we want an Iraqi flag!’ “
Someone produced an Iraqi flag, and a sergeant in the psychological operations unit quickly replaced the American flag.
Ultimately, a Marine recovery vehicle toppled the statue with a chain, but the effort appeared to be Iraqi-inspired because the psychological team had managed to pack the vehicle with cheering Iraqi children.
It’s official – over one year on the transparent stunt we all recognized as such is officially revealed to be such
Posted by: Helpful Spook | Jul 3 2004 15:17 utc | 4
@ H Spook
And it again shows that the press is really lame. The pictures showing it was staged, with only very few people, some from Chalabis hords, were all over the Internet. But then they say: “We only report what the government is telling us” – 100% opposite to real journalism.
Thanks, Helpful Spook. The fact that the stunt is known, however, may not ensure that the propaganda is shown for what it is. Depending on how political developments will play out over the next years, we may expect the photo of Iraqis dancing around the toppled statue of Saddam enter the world’s iconic memory. Perhaps it will even be reproduced in history books, which will take it at face value…
Posted by: teuton | Jul 3 2004 16:27 utc | 6
Hi everyone. It is getting difficult to comment. So many threads availabe between the two sites – half of the time it is difficult to decide which is the proper thread to post something. Well, I hope this is the right one to post on Saddam.
The Reincarnation of Saddam Hussein
Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2004 7:41 utc | 7
@Fran
Thanks for the link – good one. The judge is the same one that signed the arrest order for al Sadr – just a puppet of the CPA.
If Saddam really wants to defend himself, he only needs to pull the Ashcroft memo. That memo puts Bush above all laws and why shouldn´t Saddam claim the same rights?
Posted by: Benrhard | Jul 4 2004 8:32 utc | 8
WaPo on spending money in Iraq
U.S. Funds for Iraq Are Largely Unspent
Short undifferentiated version:
The CPA did spend nearly 20 billion Iraqi oil money on Halliburton contracts. The CPA did spend only 2% of the 18 billion US money. Effectively nothing was achieved.
Just like expected.
Posted by: Benrhard | Jul 4 2004 8:37 utc | 9
Why am I not surprised?
U.S. accused of depleting Iraq fund
@Bernhard you seem to have saved your name in the personal info with a ‘Tippfehler’.
I think the whole Saddam trial is going to be a great soap opera. No real surprises coming – the end is alread set.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2004 8:44 utc | 10
And the soap opera continues! Saddam Could Call CIA in His Defence
The article, mentioned by Sanjay Suri, by CIA officer Stephen C. Pelletiere in the New York Times was very interessting a buts a different view on the gasing of Kurds. It was the first time that I read anything that the Kurds might not have been the victims of gasing by Saddam, but by the Iranians and where actually victims of war fighting.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2004 9:02 utc | 11
@ Fran
The original Pelletiere article is in the (pay) NYT Archive.
A copy can be found on Common Dreams.
I allways wondered why the press did never mention this again.
Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 4 2004 10:02 utc | 12
re: US Army stage-managed fall of Hussein statue
While most of what used to pass for journalism may well be dead,
Being first on the story is still the Holy Grail.
Or, more accurately, getting your story out there first.
The distinction between the scoop and the coup.
The propaganda coup is there to be had if yours is the first meme to take hold.
And if you have virtual control of the visual media your cause is greatly enhanced.
The iconographic value of the toppled statue is set in the mind of the electorate.
Any attempts now to unseat that image are doomed to what Jeb’s bro might call
Revisionist history.
Sometimes I feel like a farm-raised salmon who, despite all the odds,
Somehow made it out to the ocean, somehow found a way to have a rich, fulfilling life.
But come spawning time, again somehow, guided by instinct, found my ancestral waters,
My home river, and proceeded to do what lifetimes of programming taught me to do,
Doing without knowing why, doing what must be done, to just keep on swimming,
Instinct driving me ever onward, far beyond understanding, ever upstream,
On and on, against the current, going the hard way, always hard,
She’s there waiting for me, I know it, it is written in my soul,
Everything depends on my getting there, so close,
My home that I’ve never seen,
And someone put a fvcking dam in my way,
So now I can just crash and bash my head into this immovable object
To the last syllable of recorded time.
Sometimes I just feel so helpless I want to die.
Wall of cement that keeps me from my destiny-
Knowing the hopelessness of it all,
Yet I can’t stop bashing away,
Beating my own brains in,
Until the inevitable
Last gasp.
Posted by: sasando | Jul 4 2004 10:06 utc | 13
@ Bernhard
Well, I guess because the whole argument about the bad and evil dictator Saddam would have been reduced and as such another reason to go to war.
And thanks for the link!
Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2004 10:08 utc | 14
sasando, use the ladder on the side of the damn.
Fran, thanks for the info on the Saddam trial. What a tangled web we weave……
It will be interesting to see how long this trial goes on. As far as I know Mr Milosovic is still being tried and how long has that been going on?
Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 4 2004 11:25 utc | 16
The Kerry campaign was quick to respond. “Considering that Dick Cheney got five deferments from the military to avoid combat, he’s the last person who should be attacking Vietnam veteran John Kerry’s commitment to the flag,” said spokesman Phil Singer. He added that if the Bush campaign choses to use “shrill speeches, they’re going to do so at their own peril.” Cheney Fires Back in Debate Over Values
I find Kerry’s responds strange. Why does he always go after the Vietnam record of the Bush administration – that such a long time back. Ok. I know thats a week point with them – but the real desaster is happening now in Irak and the current administration is serving him more then enough muntion against them. Or is he just so in total agreement with them about Iraq? I have to find yet a clear position from him about Iraq.
Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2004 12:40 utc | 17
Well, I just found a position on Irak by Kerry. It is in today Washington Post, writen by him –
A Realistic Path in Iraq In general it just sounds like Bush lite – he even speaks positiv about some Bush “accomplishments”. But what I find infuriating is this:
On the economic front, that means giving them fair access to the multibillion-dollar reconstruction contracts. It also means letting them be a part of putting Iraq’s profitable oil industry back together. In return, they must forgive Hussein’s multibillion-dollar debts to their countries and pay their fair share of the reconstruction bill.
How generous of Kerry to leave a few bread crumbs to the Iraqi people. Hasn’t Iraq just become independent the other day – ha, ha, ha!!! (sorry this puts me in a foul mood) Shouldn’t the Iraqis get the reconstruction contracts and maybe, if they want to, give the US fair access to them!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Fran | Jul 4 2004 13:09 utc | 18
Greece look good, meanwhile..
Blair or Brown by July 21?
Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 4 2004 19:07 utc | 19
CP
Blair will probably stick it out. He seems to have a knack for letting the shit slide off of him. The poll at the bottom of the article was interesting, 79% responded “no” to the question “will Saddam Hussein get a fair trial”.
maybe there still is hope for humanity. I do wonder about the 21% though……
Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 4 2004 19:13 utc | 20
απίστευτος! Ελλάδα, ευρωπαϊκοί πρωτοπόροϊ ouzo για το καθένα!
Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 4 2004 21:02 utc | 21
can´t read greek, Dan, but they won – and it was a hell of a good game!
Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 4 2004 21:36 utc | 22
Bernhard, I really only know a couple of swear words myself. There is a great tool called babelfish. The word comes from “The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy” and refers to a translator fish that one would stick in one’s ear. It is fun to translate something to another language and then back again.
And yes, what a great game. Sorry to see Portugal lose but there can only be one winner.
Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 4 2004 21:53 utc | 23
You there Snark or Troll?
Identify Yourself and let’s talk about babelfish
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 5 2004 2:26 utc | 25
I’ve placed a Whiskey Bar forum at Worldcrossing, with a link back to here as well. Feel free to check it out and comment.
http://worldcrossing.com/WebX?14@@.1de0682d
Posted by: Tony Quirke | Jul 5 2004 3:18 utc | 26
@ Dan of steele
I’m sorry my name didn’t automatically load with my comment. This is me,Possum. I spit my beer on my keyboard when you made reference to “Hitchhiker’s Guide To The Galaxy”. Adams rocks, and is (imo) one of the all time KINGS
OF SNARK! So you have to forgive
me for having some fun on the babelfish. Or maybe not.
Bty, have you read “Long Dark Teatime Of The Soul”?
Posted by: possum | Jul 5 2004 6:08 utc | 27