Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
July 7, 2004
Conquer we Must

Reasons for the “New Imperialism” (1)

– Economics was the most important single factor in this “New Imperialism”. Much of this economic emphasis was brought about by the industrial revolution, which created large surpluses of European capital and heavy demands for raw materials. Additionally it brought about the accumulation of major european countries which sought investment abroad.

– Nationalism was another powerful factor. Social Darwinism, with it´s concept of “Survival of the Fittest” and the obligations of the “White Man´s Burdon” made popular by the Englishman Rudyard Kipling contributed to the spirit of nationalism in extending colonialism. There was also political prestige in having colonies as imperialism became a race to aquire more in the spirit of nationalism.

– A third reason for this “new” imperialism was military. Military organizations in each major countries wielded great political power, and they emphazied the need, whith their respective governments, of controlling strategic areas and establishing key military bases.

– A fourth reason was humanitarian/religious, which often became intertwined with nationalism.

(1) “NEW IMPERIALISM (1870 – 1914)” Lecture Notes by Professor Henry, William Paterson University

Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”

The Star Spangled Banner Francis Scott Key, adopted as National Anthem 1931

Comments

Empire building – it helps to have the ‘right’ people installed in positions of influence…
Lehman to take Tenet’s job at CIA?

Posted by: Helpful Spook | Jul 7 2004 12:40 utc | 1

Very nice, Bernard. Your title might have just have aptly been “Give Me That Old Time Religion” (an old fundamentalist hymn). Translation: If it was good enough for the old imperialists, it’s good enough for me, by golly.
I see the last 5,000 years of “civilization” as one ever-growing, ever-refining expression of old time imperialism. The quest for power, land, resources is very old. Well-practiced. One song sung over and over, variations on a theme in a minor key. You might add to your thesis that Imperialism as practiced on our Happy Planet insists that there is only one “right way” to live, to think. That way is of course the way as the movers and shakers and their hangers-on define it. All those with another way are “the other”, the outcast, the heretic, the rebel, the insurgent, the enemy of the State, the radical … pick your descriptor.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jul 7 2004 12:44 utc | 2

“Conquer we must, eh? Bring it on, Goliath!” (Source: David, a small boy with a handful of stones)
Iraq is another Palestine
As ye sow, so shall ye reap…

Posted by: Helpful Spook | Jul 7 2004 13:18 utc | 3

– Economics was the most important single factor in this “New Imperialism”. Much of this economic emphasis was brought about by the industrial revolution, which created large surpluses of European capital and heavy demands for raw materials.
Crucial to helping understand America’s Imperialistic tendencies today is another economic factor, Energy!
The industrial revolution was also fueled by energy. This is vital to understand. Energy is what moves everything. From the food we eat to the automobile we drive; and everything in-between.
When wood was the energy source… not so much stuff done,
then coal… a lot more done…
now cheap, abundant, versatile petroleum/natural gas…
and how the energy hungry industrial sector has matasasized. (what’s the word I want here?).
We may then be back to the daily primary productivity of our sun and not hundreds of million years of stored solar energy so easily exploited for the last two hundred years.
What the Cheney energy bunch fully realize that mainstream America doesn’t is the profound impact peak oil will have on everything as world energy availability peaks. They are desperate to remain in the position to save themselves as everyone else goes down.
That’s the reality we are up against. (as I see it anyway)

Posted by: Juannie | Jul 7 2004 13:50 utc | 4

@Kate
Imperialism doesn´t insist that there is one right way in my view. Suppression by distraction of the common people is a precondition for imperialism. People who do not accept the distraction endager the imperial project and shall be handled accordingly.

Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 7 2004 13:52 utc | 5

Bernard: Imperialism doesn´t insist that there is one right way in my view. Suppression by distraction of the common people is a precondition for imperialism. People who do not accept the distraction endager the imperial project and shall be handled accordingly.
“Insisting on one way” by any other name would smell as sweet, to borrow from the Bard of Avon.
But your point about the “form” of the insistance has merit. I’m reminded of the John Carpenter film, “They Live.” The subliminal messages everywhere. OBEY. CONSUME. REPRODUCE.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jul 7 2004 14:07 utc | 6

To conquer.
I think it goes all the way back to the cave man.
Think about all the simple comics penned by 1000s of different artists:
“To konk_her” — The cave man with a club dragging the woman by her hair to his lair.
Me went. Me see. Me got.
Veni, vidi, vici.
When so many different artists render the same drawing again and again over so many different decades it tells you something fundamental about the species.
Which is to say: yeah I believe the neandertals were the first victims of genocide.
Where does it stop and when does it stop?
It won’t.
This giant wave of conquest won’t ever be sated. Not even after the last Yanamamo Indian stands behind a fast food counter with an ugly corporate smock on and says: “How may I serve you please?”
That’s why I sometimes think there really is a God. The fact that we can’t escape and colonize beyond our solar system seems like a really smart design.

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 7 2004 15:33 utc | 7

koreyel: That’s why I sometimes think there really is a God. The fact that we can’t escape and colonize beyond our solar system seems like a really smart design.
Yep. Probably an excellent cosmic decision. 😉 But then the science fiction writers have, in the main, been saying such for decades. Human beings on the Happy Planet are infants, and seem to want to remain infants in their thinking. (note: the previous was the opinion of the writer and not meant as either prophesy or textbook pronouncement)
😉

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jul 7 2004 15:48 utc | 8

Yeah Kate…
Although some sci fi writers obviously take a more sanguine approach to humanity.
Most famously is probably Gene Roddenberry’s Prime Derective, which is about as anti-colonial as you can get.
As distinguished from Heinlein’s Tunnel in the Sky where he imagines cowboys and their cow herds (in fact a whole wagon train) passing through a space time door to colonize another planet.
My favorite has always been the River World saga by Farmer. Where a totally phyiscally healed humanity finds itself simultaneously rejuvenated on a obviously terra-formed planet.
In what must be one of the most blunt assessments of humanity ever–Farmer imagines the species making all the same mistakes over again. Including, of course, human slavery, the ultimate colonization.

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 7 2004 16:11 utc | 9

To konk_her
Nice one koreyel
OBEY. CONSUME. REPRODUCE. Isn’t that pretty much the theme of organized religion?
I would like to thank Bernhard for picking up the slack and doing a damn fine job of providing us stuff to talk about. Both sites (this one and the annex) are good and I wonder if it might be a good idea to combine them. There are probably some egos in play and neither wants to submit to the other but it should be worth considering.

Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 7 2004 16:40 utc | 10

Where does it stop and when does it stop?
It won’t.

I think you’re correct koyerel, certainly if I take that attitude regarding my decision to accept the state rep chance. It will then, for sure for me, not stop because I will never have peace of mind knowing I capitulated.
That statement is directed at me not you. I promise I’ll always try to snark myself and not others. Other’s comments only reflect to me what is already there inside me.
But I sure know the feeling and I don’t deny you the right to feel it and express it.
Have you ever read “The Chalice and the Blade”. That gave me a lot of hope because I realized our species has existed cooperatively and peacefully. Not when the female of our species was in charge but when we shared together their primal insights which we men can only imagine.

Posted by: Juannie | Jul 7 2004 16:47 utc | 11

Kate, I was not quite sure whether I knew Carpenter’s They Live, so I went to the Internet Movie Database and checked. Yes, I saw the film some years ago, but it was late and I obviously did not pay enough attention. One thing you probably know but which I still find absolutely hilarious is one of the film’s taglines:
“You see them on the street. You watch them on TV. You might even vote for one this fall. You think they’re people just like you. You’re wrong. Dead wrong.”
(And there’s no abusive discussion about “might even vote” intended, honestly.)

Posted by: teuton | Jul 7 2004 16:49 utc | 12

Both sites (this one and the annex) are good and I wonder if it might be a good idea to combine them. There are probably some egos in play and neither wants to submit to the other but it should be worth considering.
I kind of agree. I haven’t visited the Annex for the last 24 hours just because I have been able to handle the volume here but know I’d be swamped if I went over there as well. At least for now.
I don’t get the sense that there is much ego involved. I think both Bernhard & Jerome are two people that have their hearts and minds in right perspective and really want to serve what we all mutually need.
But if we decide to move over there, I’ll at least be lurking.
Gotta go do some paying work now. Check back later.

Posted by: Juannie | Jul 7 2004 17:08 utc | 13

Juannie —
You need to tell your story at Demcoracy for America, Howard Dean’s grassroots movement.
I’ll bet the good doctor will adopt you as one of the candidates he supports — he’d probably even campaign with you.

Posted by: ck | Jul 7 2004 17:34 utc | 14

Bernhard, I’m really not much of a “morning person”–in fact I’m at my most comfortable after everyone goes to bed, fter the phone stops ringing, and when the dogs have settled down to a silent, if waking, state.
In the morning I try to avoid the net, and if I visit a site like this one, I try not to post any comments.
I forgot to mention that my time zone is CDT in North America–GMT+6. At the moment, it’s shortly before 11 AM–a time when I’m not inclined to post things. But….
Congratulations, first of all, for bringing this site up to speed! I can’t imagine what it involves, only that it takes a whole lot of time, patience, energy, money (at some point, and in some way) and humor. I hope you’d never do it if you didn’t value the product–but you’re right to value the product. Thanks for all that initiative, and congratulations for the success!
I especially like the thread itself. It catches the spirit of the Whiskey Bar. It has the scope, reach, latitude and specificity of the Barkeep’s threads.
The key to this thread, from my own personal point of view, is that puts forth, as a question, something so quickly disposed of with “an answer”–which is really no answer at all, just a foreclosure of further discussion.
The concept “nation” cannot be taken as a political and sociological topic merely. It’s a theological topic too. Trust me, I’m certainly not a theologian, and it may surprise some theologians that they have a special relationship to the concept of the “nation”. But for those of us who read a little philosophy, the time is long since past when we could hope to ensconce our deliberations about the “nation” within the tidy limits of a single, positive field.
When I approach this topic, I cannot ignore the writings of Carl Schmitt, Kojeve, Benjamin, Strauss, Adorno, Heidegger, Lukacs, Nietzsche or Freud, all of whom have very interesting points to say about “political theology”. And of course they only take off from their readings of Kant, Hegel, Fichte and Schelling, who only took off from their readings of Hobbes, Locke, Hume and Voltaire, who only took off from their readings of Machiavelli and Luther (as a reader of Shakespeare, trying to get a grip on his concepts of civil polity, I have no choice but to read Luther’s 1523 declaration “On Secular Authority,” and with the greatest of care, if only because Shakespeare so insistently sends me there. And it doesn’t surprise me to hear that the great Giorgio de Sanctis once said that he couldn’t tell Luther and Machiavelli apart–that they were like two peas in a pod.)
Political philosophers are not theologians–we know and respect this fact. It’s just that they live, like everyone else (Marx and Hegel included) off the more or less inexhaustible resources of theology’s capital. Call it “metaphysical/theogical” capital, since there would be no theology without Plato and Aristotle.
As for me, I rather suspect that the great political entities–the community-determining entities–are not the institutions of “nations” or even of “empires”–they are languages. The reasoning to support this point is rather extensive, and I can’t go into it here. But I’m told that there’d be no Germany without German, and no German without Luther, who invented German–or so the historians tell us–in order to help the people living beyond the Rhine to read the Bible in the vernacular.
It can be shown that the same process happened in England, with English, and with the English: modern English is largely the product of the Bible as translated by William Tyndale. But Tyndale translated the English Bible from Luther’s German Bible–in fact, according to one authority, he actually spent a year with Luther in Luther’s study, learning how to do this. All speakers of modern English are therefore in some degree Lutheran–perhaps too Lutheran, as committed Calvinists would argue.
When I mention these things–in response to your invitation, so to speak–I feel the awkwardness that anyone feels at stating the obvious, as when we feel obliged to say that “two and two makes four”. No one wants to be rude or outlandish, least of all when benefiting from someone else’s hospitality.
And it may very well be the case that the war in Iraq is only a play for terrain, for some land that lies on top of a pool of oil; but I’m struck by the fact that a whole lot of folks–English-speaking folks–claim to know how a population should behave, politically speaking, when they haven’t learned a word of Arabic, haven’t laid eyes on the Koran, and haven’t heard a single word about the intricate legal codes developing out of the teachings of the Prophet Mohammed.
The great power–call it the blessing–of this site is its capacity to assist us in exchanging information about our ignorance. It goes a long way towards justifying the fact that the medium of exchange here is only a single language (namely English). It gives me the hope that I can read a post from someone in Iraq who knows English, and who can point me to this or that book, author or concept in my hour of need. Someone prepared to tolerate my ignorance of his or her mother-tongue
And, Bernhard, this post would be a third its length, and three times as crisp, if I’d taken the time to make it so. But it’s almost 1 PM, and I really shouldn’t be here at all. I just got carried away by the opportunities afforded by this thread….

Posted by: alabama | Jul 7 2004 17:34 utc | 15

Thanks alabama,
comments like yours make this a worthwhile endeavour.

Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 7 2004 18:11 utc | 16

He must be visionary!
Boondock printed in March 1984
You need to scroll down the page to the cartoon.

Posted by: Fran | Jul 7 2004 18:32 utc | 17

There are two boondock cartoons on that webpage, bot from 1984 and both about Rumsfeld.

Posted by: Fran | Jul 7 2004 18:42 utc | 18

This one is really freaky.
thanks Fran

Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 7 2004 18:55 utc | 19

@Dan
how did you link to the cartoon?

Posted by: Fran | Jul 7 2004 18:58 utc | 20

Fran, I’ve seen them. Uncanny, to say the least.

Posted by: teuton | Jul 7 2004 19:01 utc | 21

Me above

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 7 2004 19:01 utc | 22

Can I assume that you guys are aware that those cartoons weren’t really printed in 1984 — ?
I’m almost positive Boondocks wasn’t around then.
Not trying to be a jerk here, just making sure.

Posted by: dc | Jul 7 2004 19:04 utc | 23

I am glad you asked. right click on the image and then select “properties” you will see a Address or url, something like http://www.moonofalabama.org/moon7.jpg on the third line.
now you have to hyperlink it. type &lt a href=”http://www.moonofalabama.org/moon7.jpg”&gt Here it is &lt/a&gt
to get Here it is

Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 7 2004 19:04 utc | 24

Me here. A good read.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 7 2004 19:04 utc | 25

@ dc
are you sure about boondock? I am not very familiar with it.
@ dan
thank you for the instructions – I think they just worked.
another cartoon This one is kind of cute.

Posted by: Fran | Jul 7 2004 19:19 utc | 26

dc, thanks for squashing that. Gosh I guess I am just too gullible. Looked it up and McGruder first published “Boondocks” in 1996.
Kind of mean of Bartcop not to let us know….

Posted by: Dan of Steele | Jul 7 2004 19:27 utc | 27

@dc
I think you are right the copyright on the cartoon is 2004. Well, sometimes I am still a little naive. But its a nice cartoon anyway.

Posted by: Fran | Jul 7 2004 19:29 utc | 28

I’m a regular reader of Boondocks – that’s the only reason I knew. It would be hard to tell if you weren’t absolutely familiar with the strip.

Posted by: dc | Jul 7 2004 20:01 utc | 29

Back from Boondocks empire to Imperialism…
I tried to find thoughts on the possible development of an conquering, imperialistic US. Of course I stumbled over Hannah Arendt´s texts.

In Nazism we saw the first case of a thoroughgoing imperialist policy, whose lust for conquest is governed by the principle “All or Nothing,” and whose wars end in “Victory or Death.” And we also saw the workings of its peculiar, curious logic by which the All inevitably reverts to the Nothing, and even Victory cannot but end in Death. Allowing its own law, the power-accumulating machinery built by imperialism can only go on swallowing more and more peoples, enslaving more and more territory, destroying more and more human beings–until eventually it ends by devouring itself
(Arendt, 1946a: 33-4).

Is this the way it will develop? Are their other circumstances or other parameters that make for a different outcome?

Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 7 2004 20:28 utc | 30

@Bernhard
I think there is are limitations to “lust for conquest” by the US. That is resources, human i.e. soldiers, energy – an mordern army needs lots energy. At present Iraq doesn’t deliver the needed oil and there is competition for the energy as well. Then the US is lending a lot of money from other countries, that might get tight too. And those lending countries might use the US foreign debths as a lever to stopp its imperial desires. So the lust might be there, but there also hugh hurdles to limit it.
And maybe the biggest threat, in my opinion, to this imperialist policy might be the internet. I think it makes the total control for nazi-like governments much more difficult, though not necessarily impossible.

Posted by: Fran | Jul 7 2004 20:51 utc | 31

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L07483403.htm
Georgia on my mind.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 7 2004 20:52 utc | 32

Some parts of Blair’s Pravda speak.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 7 2004 21:47 utc | 33

Shit, I’ve already talked to one person about the Boondock-cartoon, which I also took to be authentically ’80s for the moment. One helpful reminder to check things that are offered to you, even if they come from friendly Fran. (Hey, it’s probably a European thing, a lack of familiarity with US(?) pop culture.)
alabama, your careful post as usual offers so much food for thought and encourages so many possible answers/reactions. However, I am currently working on things that are rather close to your reasoning here, and – guess you know the feeling – I just want to leave your beautiful flight of thought as it is. Thank you for sharing.
Cloned Poster, I read the BBC-report. Who knows, there might be a wave of rage coming that will overwhelm Blair and his sultans of spin. From what I heard and perceived in Britain recently, I do not think it impossible. One of my fondest hopes, actually – which is why it probably won’t happen.

Posted by: teuton | Jul 7 2004 22:26 utc | 34

Again, I cut and paste because of BBC restrictions.
Bliar Blair Bliar

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 7 2004 22:34 utc | 35

ck
I’ll bet the good doctor will adopt you as one of the candidates he supports — he’d probably even campaign with you.
You know ck, you just made a great suggestion to me. Dean & I would confront each other each year for about 5 years when he was Gov. here. I got a chance at him once each year when he’d show up at the ongoing legislative breakfast where I’ve been a regular. For me it was the same message each year “Agricultural hemp would be good for our farmers and the state economy”. He actually got to respect me and personally told me so even though he prevented hemp against the wish of about 2/3 of the legislature, both houses.
I gave him money during his presidential run earlier this year. He’s has not been anywhere near the progressive that the anti war/anti GWB group that adopted him imagined him to be. But I think he’s a real person with a real heart and as we all know an excellent mind. Think I’ll contact him IF I decide to go for it. I’m taking it very seriously.
ck… I just bounced back from the Annex when before I checked back in here. I can’t keep up with both. Maybe I should just stay here until this all sorts itself out.

Posted by: Juannie | Jul 7 2004 22:44 utc | 36

Cloned Poster, for a second I thought of complaining about your post (they have this link right next to it). Would have been something like this:
“The contents of this post is far too direct and to the point and does not meet the high standards of professsional problem evasion and smokescreen rhetoric I have come to expect from the BBC recently.”
Well, I have complained to you directly now.

Posted by: teuton | Jul 7 2004 22:52 utc | 37

if I understand Alabama & sometimes I’m not quite sure that I do – ‘theology’ is the highest form of speculative thinking
& in this there is no contest the cabbala is the the peak of speculative thinking – the sufi by comparison are empiricists of the soul & the gnostis/christian/lutheran esoteric are close to primitive o at least are consistent with a bloomian canon of connaissance
that withstanding I go back to hegel all the time I read him at 20 & at 40 reread and took more & became more studious in my comprehension. his opposite – althusser – especially in works like lire le capital & lettres à franca take me to places I never thought a materialist philosophy could take me
speculative thiuking is paradoxically not the work of the ivory tower but is often articulated by those –especially in early jewish philosophy by persons who understood life deeply, too deeply perhaps. judaic speculative thinking from the cabbala has been a volatile mixture of the highest aspiration of man mixed with the most base vanity. that is to mirro ‘god’ whatever that is. dr faust is simply the crudest metaphor of that dilemna
if you’ll forgive me Alabama – until hegel – all was mathematics & with him came man & with all the attendant problems
you speak of nglish philosophy & I would gladly throw it all in the rubbish with the exception of a year or three of Wittgenstein. life is too short & british for me to ever want to read that work again & I simply see no reason to do so
i read two english polymaths when I was a young fellow – hristopher (st john sprig)caudwell & the classicist george thomson & I can remember they both shone in the thuggish anti humanism that constitutes 500 years of english philosophy
on a good day & it is not always so but i think french philosophy has maintained in a subterranean manner a link with the best of jewish speculative philosophy – when they are wild deleuze & baudrillard for example they are like a concatenation of bartok & sly stone
when i read the lettres à franca – & I reread it almost weekly I am centred by its depth into the questions that I would call a vital & vigorous humanism & what you are calling theology
tho it seems strange in this darkness to be studying the texts like we are studying the Talmud when allawi today declares a state of emergency & in afghanistan u.s. troops continue the killing o innocents
I have told you alabama that I have been reading that book on messianism and philosophy because it also incorporates what I am feeling on a day to day level & on some days there is no space for metaphysics – just a rage I have not felt since I was very young & understood practically that all lthe dispossessed were viet cong
& remember as an adolescent that that was what I wanted to be – a viet cong – whose bitterness came from reading the confessions of bukharin but who remained committed because he had read the poems of ho, the article socialism & man by che guevara, who had heard the songs of mikis theodorakis, victor jara, merceds sosa
though he is demonised in your country as a liar & a killer – I have also learnt from jack henry abbot in his two books – & he was a connoisseur of schelling & fichte in a way I am not – but he has written majestically on thought as a predicate for action – he also in later years especially in the book with naomi zack – became an advocate to jewish speculative philosophy – a strange meandering from the central committee of the bolsheviks to 3rd century ruminations – but he touches me as a thinker in a way rawls cannot & that is not to say I do not listen to a rawls but it is in abbot that I see the nut & bolts in a very similar way to Wittgenstein
sorry this meditation has gone on too long & perhaps it’s irrelevant but I felt a need to reply to your meditation. as I have sd on a number of occasion I find in the modernist poetry of the arab world & the greeks to be especially useful in coming to terms with what it means to be alive in a world you would prefer to die in – they have given me a great deal – but more importantly I use them often in my work here & the very real effect on people of this extraordinary verse rests a source of wonderment & also of utility
because finally in their work – I find the stones, the trees, the tables, the sand, the chairs, the ash which helps me fight the symbolism of dread that is instructed minute by minute by those who would make of this world – something so simple – we would speak salivating
when I return to speculative philosophy it is not to construct a sense of nation or even of place – in these moments I return to learn how to breathe
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 7 2004 23:02 utc | 38

Alabama:
As for me, I rather suspect that the great political entities–the community-determining entities–are not the institutions of “nations” or even of “empires”–they are languages.
So then it is no coincidence that the coalition of the willing are basically the US, the UK, and Australia?
Wasn’t it Churchill who actually wrote a “History of the English Speaking Peoples”?
(Somewhere in the back of mind a Churchill quote swirls, where he writes about how while others learned to speak Greek and Latin he learned to speak and write English. And rather well at that. (Yes he is very proud of the fact.) It is one of those telling moments that completely reinforces the argument Alabama.)
So yeah, the point is well-taken.
But given that–can we then say that conquest is best evidence by whatever particular language is currently the world’s lingua franca?
And given that…wouldn’t you say that the surest way to global conquest is to mandate your language as, so to speak, the world’s current language?
I think you see where I am going with this:
If the scope of one’s language determines the scope of one’s conquest… then if you were English (and Rumsfeldian in nature) how best would you enforce English as the globally dominant language?
I see it through two venues: business and science.
You’d want the world’s currency to be in American dollars and the world’s best science to be done in English journals. Then conquest is complete.
Or..as I should have wrote up above in my previous post: The last Yanamamo Indian says (in English): “How may I serve you please.”
Which is all to say…the English speaking people have won, or will win. Our Yanamamo Indian will save his money to buy Levis.
Like it or not.

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 7 2004 23:08 utc | 39

koreyel, I disagree here. You have a point in linguistic colonialism – I think as early as the 1590s Spenser wrote to a friend that the English should have an empire of their language. Language was and its one of the most important tools of imperialism.
But we would have to recapitulate the entire discussion in postcolonial studies here, one of the most important results being that the Hegelian dialectics of master and servant can also be applied to the colonisers and the linguistically colonised. Language as a sign system does not belong to anybody. It is defined (never in its entirety, of course) by those who speak it. With English becoming the worldwide lingua franca, the control over the language drifts away from the former linguistic communities to the well-known margins. English is more amorphous these days than it ever was (and one of my conservative teachers held ‘our transatlantic cousins’ largely responsible for that). Language and literature can be used as tools of resistance. It remains to be seen whether the controlling forces or the uncontrolled forces gain more power. Shakespeare’s Caliban knew this.

Posted by: teuton | Jul 7 2004 23:44 utc | 40

A quick hello to the barflies. It took me a while to find this place. Will be back later.

Posted by: Lupin | Jul 7 2004 23:45 utc | 41

Lupin! I had wondered where you had been – is the full moon over? Good to see you. And good night, because it’s almost 2am over here now.

Posted by: teuton | Jul 7 2004 23:49 utc | 42

One of my favorite theological aphorisms:
This is the twilight of the gods, predicted in Scandinavian Mythology. Hegel’s definition of liberty was, “the spirit’s realization of itself.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Posted by: ck | Jul 7 2004 23:53 utc | 43

koreyel
you must be very tough indeed
to read, which i have also done, in a jeunesse marked by hallucigenics – the tomes of that old buzzard which won a nobel over cesar pavese, for example
that is my nightmare – to be stuck in a cell with rumsfield for company & the only books availabe those of winston c & the music of zztop & continued repeats of the twilight zone
anybody here have a tranquiliser
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 8 2004 0:12 utc | 44

OT
I can’t tell you how good it makes me feel to come here and see the Bar crowd still hanging in there. I was mostly a lurker at Billmon’s, but it hurt to see the place change. Keep up the good fight.

Posted by: tings | Jul 8 2004 0:39 utc | 45

This is the twilight of the gods, predicted in Scandinavian Mythology. Hegel’s definition of liberty was, “the spirit’s realization of itself.”
That’s also classic Christian theology, if anybody bothers reading the Greek Patristics. True liberty (spiritual liberty) is the manifestation of that true image in which we are created.

Posted by: x | Jul 8 2004 0:53 utc | 46

(and by the way, that’s a mystical process connected with one’s inner life grace, not a matter of obeying the law or scrupulously following the rules. “Not by law but by grace”)
For those who are interested, like perhaps alabama

Posted by: x | Jul 8 2004 1:04 utc | 47

oops, typo. Please ignore the first “grace” after “inner life.” sheesh.

Posted by: x | Jul 8 2004 1:17 utc | 48

x, as you can imagine, I’m very interested in “grace”!
We live for grace, we live by grace, we die for grace, we die by grace. And grace is very strange–it comes from a strange place, which is really not a place at all. More like a time, except that it gives time.
It’s a gift. Those who are touched by grace are therefore gifted: they bear a responsibility for that gift, but since grace itself is the gift, the responsibility rests upon them lightly–with force, I must suppose, but lightly so.
Grace is the future. It befalls us….

Posted by: alabama | Jul 8 2004 1:41 utc | 49

“Grace is our future. It befalls us….”
Was that written by me? Did I write that? It sounds so…so definite, and I’m not inclined to be definite that way, not that I know of, anyway.
I was only trying to verbalize a process (articulate a concept), and the English language turned it into a promise.
A promise to me, or by me? To me by me? Maybe none of these….
(Language–a place where grace happens. It just happens. Language–manna from heaven….).

Posted by: alabama | Jul 8 2004 1:52 utc | 50

ce n’est pas de cette colère après
que le refus a cogné comme une cloche sous l’eau
que son sourire enfantera cette bouche, derrière le miroir,
qui brûle le long de mes yeux
ce nest pas de cette colère dylan thomas

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 8 2004 1:53 utc | 51

alabama
do you have a dylan thomas handy
i’d die for a sequence from death shall have no dominion
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 8 2004 1:54 utc | 52

remembereringgiap, I’ve looked all over the house for a copy of that poem, and I can’t find it anywhere. I can’t even find an anthology that might include it. I’m disappointed and surprised. I’ll look for it in my place of work, tomorrow.

Posted by: alabama | Jul 8 2004 2:19 utc | 53

For rememberinggiap:
And Death Shall Have No Dominion
by: Dylan Thomas
And death shall have no dominion.
Dead men naked they shall be one
With the man in the wind and the west moon;
When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone,
They shall have stars at elbow and foot;
Though they go mad they shall be sane,
Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again;
Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.
And death shall have no dominion.
Under the windings of the sea
They lying long shall not die windily;
Twisting on racks when sinews give way,
Strapped to a wheel, yet they shall not break;
Faith in their hands shall snap in two,
And the unicorn evils run them through;
Split all ends up they shan’t crack;
And death shall have no dominion.
And death shall have no dominion.
No more may gulls cry at their ears
Or waves break loud on the seashores;
Where blew a flower may a flower no more
Lift its head to the blows of the rain;
Though they be mad and dead as nails,
Heads of the characters hammer through daisies;
Break in the sun till the sun breaks down,
And death shall have no dominion.

Posted by: SusanG | Jul 8 2004 2:28 utc | 54

When their bones are picked clean and the clean bones gone,
They shall have stars at elbow and foot;
Though they go mad they shall be sane,
Though they sink through the sea they shall rise again;
Though lovers be lost love shall not;
And death shall have no dominion.
oh susang
a thank you at its most sublime
mother read that to me
at eight after i had been in orpahanage for two years
with years his work becomes more not less important
how he constructs from destruction breath by breath & creates this beautiful fragile building that with one brick gone would not work
his majesty, his grace – all the bricks, all the breaths, there
thank you from my heart
still steel
thank you too alabama
& now to sleep

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 8 2004 2:59 utc | 55

Wow, all of you have posted such beautiful things.
alabama–
We live for grace, we live by grace, we die for grace, we die by grace. And grace is very strange–it comes from a strange place, which is really not a place at all. More like a time, except that it gives time.
It’s a gift. Those who are touched by grace are therefore gifted: they bear a responsibility for that gift, but since grace itself is the gift, the responsibility rests upon them lightly–with force, I must suppose, but lightly so.
Grace is the future. It befalls us….
All of that was quite well worth repeating. Thank you.

Posted by: x | Jul 8 2004 3:52 utc | 56

oh what is it with me and terminating those italics, eh?
off!

Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 8 2004 3:53 utc | 57

for alabama:
Those who are touched by grace are therefore gifted: they bear a responsibility for that gift, but since grace itself is the gift, the responsibility rests upon them lightly–with force, I must suppose, but lightly so.
here’s another bit of linked Word for you:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
(Mt 11)

Posted by: x | Jul 8 2004 3:56 utc | 58

Man by himself can no wise rise from sin without the help of grace…
For since the lustre of grace springs from the shedding of Divine light, this lustre cannot be brought back, except God sheds His light anew: hence a habitual gift is necessary, and this is the light of grace.
Thankfully for us lapsed Catholics, the Summa Theologica still has its moments even when not taken literally.

Posted by: mats | Jul 8 2004 4:21 utc | 59

the inner life, made strong and whole,
there we will find grace —
the small, the quiet,
the radiant force that is —
life itself . . .
there we will find grace —
the light that is the sun,
yet is not seen without
and is no light at all;
yet is all light
and all that is . . .
there we will find grace —
when full and proud and
with our self importance
are secure . . .
there grace will not be found —
yet grace is there;
quiet . . . waiting . . .
the still small voice
that seeks not works . . .
grace will abide, and wait . . .

Posted by: ck | Jul 8 2004 4:47 utc | 60

“There is always the one right word;
use it,despite it’s foul or merely
ludicrous associations.”

Posted by: possum | Jul 8 2004 5:39 utc | 61

You guys are wonderful.
Thank you.

Posted by: x | Jul 8 2004 5:59 utc | 62

I find it a great and fatal difference whether I court the muse, or the muse courts me: Tha is the ugly disparity between age and youth.
Ralph Waldo Emerson, July 1866

Posted by: ck | Jul 8 2004 14:34 utc | 63

ck
muse – is just energy & the capacity to concentrate that energy
she does not fall from the skies but is the natural alchemy of experience & prophecy, talent & will
she also lives in this world – the one we inhabit
so too grace
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 8 2004 14:48 utc | 64

Grace, I think, runs like a thread through everything we encounter in the ordinary. It has its own spectrum though, like ultraviolet light, and requires a deep intention on our part in order to be detected.
Modern life abounds in distraction, and it takes concentrated effort to be aware of the undercurrents and foundation of it all — which I believe to be grace, the muse, the creative, the delightful.
Truth is, it’s hard work — the work of a lifetime — to glimpse even the tail end of the comet of it all.

Posted by: SusanG | Jul 8 2004 15:05 utc | 65

Juannie,
I’ve not read that book. But the Amazon reviews reveal it as incredibly thread relevant.
Since many of us here savor words, here is a pasted sentence from the first reviewer:
Riane Eisler marshalls compelling evidence from many disciplines to assert that the struggle between a “gylanic” social structure based on male-female partnership exemplified in ancient Crete and Turkey, and a male dominated “androcracy”, has been the major unseen force shaping western history and is once again in our time coming to a head.”
Wondering: Does the author argue that corporate structure is now the blade of choice for the androcracy?
Also wondering: About those subterreanean forces–invisible hands–that move our species in such secretive ways. Which is to say, the DNA molecule seems to have a will of it’s own. Replicate Me! (Spoken like the plant in “The Little Shop Horrors.)
And yet this scientific argument is out there right now: Since the Y gene can’t repair itself or exchange material with a genetic partner it is doomed. That in fact, men will be extinct within 125,000 years.
Well…I think you can sense the hidden undercurrents. Here is a quote from the first review of the relevant book on Amazon:
Some readers will eagerly skim until they reach Chapter 21, where Sykes gets to the heart of the matter–why and how the Y chromosome has created a world where men overwhelmingly own the wealth and power, commit the crimes, and fight the wars. He uses the structural puniness of the Y chromosome to demonstrate that men are as unnecessary biologically as they are dominant socially.
What I am trying to say is just this:
Does the Y-gene sense its own demise? And if so, is that why it so seeks to conquer?
[Aside: No, not into the wacky-tabacky. Just having fun with ideas.]

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 8 2004 16:03 utc | 66

Hmmm, well, how does he explain that some species have survived for literally hundred of millions of years , with their male population? Shouldn’t their Y be out since a long time? Or do males of other species not have an Y?

Posted by: CluelessJoe | Jul 8 2004 16:21 utc | 67

I’ll have to find the medical reference (and will) , but there’s been a lot lately on the distintegration of the Y chromosome. It has some researchers puzzled and alarmed.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jul 8 2004 16:45 utc | 68

thank you, x, for the Word at 11:56 PM. Maybe I haven’t been reading Scripture for a while, but it seems that Scripture’s been reading me–it gets me (whatever I’ve got that’s there to be gotten), and it’s always light-years ahead of me.
No harm in going to the source….
I like to call a citation from scripture a “Word”: this is a rather specialized, even precious, usage of the word “word”. It used to fairly common, I believe. In the works of John Bunyan, for example–works that I’ve come to value almost more than my own life–the word “word” is often used that way.
Now that the word “Word” has been thorougly contaminated, even appropriated, by the folks at Microsoft, I find that this old, this antique, usage of the word “word” can have strategic value in a war that’s raging around me.
Usage of the capital letter “W” in the orthography of the word “word”, something frequently found in Bunyan, might even serve to alarm some lawyers in the state of Washington. In all rigor, they could end up suing Bunyan as a party to plagiarism. Stranger things have happened….
Oh mighty Word–“come unto me all ye that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest”–thank you for coming forward in this random, haphazard fashion!
The OT–not the “Old Testament,” but the “Off Topic”–is the gifting feature of this website.

Posted by: alabama | Jul 8 2004 17:43 utc | 69

alabama, but how can you celebrate the off-topic points when the US and the world must be saved by supporting Kerry as much as you can and vote for him and strengthen the grass-roots and if you don’t, you’re an idiot and worse? 😉

Posted by: teuton | Jul 8 2004 18:53 utc | 70

teuton: alabama, but how can you celebrate the off-topic points when the US and the world must be saved by supporting Kerry as much as you can and vote for him and strengthen the grass-roots and if you don’t, you’re an idiot and worse? 😉
ROFLMAO! 🙂 Very nice. Don’t forget to worry about the children.

Posted by: Kate_Storm | Jul 8 2004 18:57 utc | 71

Actually, this site has taken me OT from some of the topics of real life–like a trip to the Post Office.
Whither I point my steps for a little while….

Posted by: alabama | Jul 8 2004 19:41 utc | 72

Oh my, how nice to find some sanity.

Posted by: x | Jul 9 2004 2:28 utc | 73

@teuton thanks for the quick grin
@x second that emotion
@alabama and r’giap great posts, I am too sleepy to respond intelligently
but will remark that one of my favourite social critics is Ivan Illich, who started out as a priest/theologian… a permeable membrane between theological and social/sociological critique… theology always exercised a strange fascination over this atheist…
too tired to make sense. later.

Posted by: DeAnander | Jul 9 2004 7:08 utc | 74

deanander
i remember a time that seems so long ago now when i studied mt illich & alos the american scholar – herb gintis
their take on pedagogy still touches my work today, i imagine
still steel

Posted by: remembereringgiap | Jul 9 2004 12:38 utc | 75

I’m bypassing the news in general today–it’s my wedding anniversary–but I did wish to thank Bernhard for doing a terrific job, and to say it’s good to see everyone.

Posted by: sallyh | Jul 10 2004 1:19 utc | 76