At the Whiskey Bar the barkeeper cites: and the rich are winning. Here is room to respond.
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July 13, 2004
Billmon: Class Warfare
At the Whiskey Bar the barkeeper cites: and the rich are winning. Here is room to respond.
Comments
Image wars aside, the Kerry/Edwards ticket does not seem to have delineated positions that are distinctively different enough from B/C policies to arouse much populist passion. Yes, roll back some of the tax cuts for the richest, but I haven’t heard much discussion of fundamental redirection of spending or tax policy in ways that would benefit the masses. Maybe I have missed something here. Posted by: maxcrat | Jul 13 2004 8:51 utc | 1 Image wars aside, it does not seem that the Kerrey/Edwards ticket have articulated a program that differs all that much from the B/C policies now in place. Yes, roll back some of the tax cuts for the richest, but no fundamental redirection of spending and tax policies in a way that would be of greater benefit to the masses. Or am I missing something? Posted by: maxcrat | Jul 13 2004 8:56 utc | 2 @maxcrat Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 13 2004 9:06 utc | 4 Populist messages delivered by angry voices rarely work with the political center. They scare more than they incite. Finding the right emotional pitch – optimistic, eloquent, passionate but not belligerent – is the key. FDR understood this instinctively; so did Hubert Humphrey. So did Paul Wellstone. Posted by: Juannie | Jul 13 2004 9:34 utc | 5 Class war is not just another party seeking to gain power or a new way of telling people what to do. Class war is what happens when ordinary people have had enough of being pushed around and decide to fight back. Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 13 2004 10:36 utc | 6 bernhard, the answer is one that no one in this country is allowed to talk about or even contemplate — massive cuts in military spending. Roll back the empire. Not likely to happen in my lifetime though, sadly. Posted by: semper ubi | Jul 13 2004 11:57 utc | 7 I would like to find an income statement for George W. Bush, something compact that I can use to prove to my Republican friends that Bush is actually very wealthy. Has anyone here seen one, and could I please get a link? Posted by: pol | Jul 13 2004 12:34 utc | 8 OT Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 13 2004 13:26 utc | 9 I found Theresa Heinz’ observation on 60 Minutes the other night right on target: Posted by: SusanG | Jul 13 2004 14:11 utc | 10 maxcrat, Posted by: Jackmormon | Jul 13 2004 14:18 utc | 11 pol, for Bush’s financial records a source, opensecrets.org Posted by: Felicia | Jul 13 2004 14:28 utc | 12 Bernhard, from what I gathered at the times I’ve been over at the Kerry website, he is talking about spending. I haven’t read the whole site and every proposal, but he seems to be saying we need to do the spending in the big stuff and at the same time spend on domestic stuff: police, education, etc. One of his proposals is to create a Domestic National Service that would engage 500,000 people each year and be running within a decade. He says that program will be paid for by cutting out a program that subsidizes profits to banks for making student loans. Elsewhere he talks about eliminating Bush’s tax cuts for the wealthy. (If I understood correctly) His website seems to be full of initiates for various programs. Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 14:30 utc | 13 oops… the above link goes to the Center for Public Integrity. I found that site to be more comprehensive than opensecrets. Posted by: Felicia | Jul 13 2004 14:32 utc | 14 That’s funny Juannie…we focused on the same sentence. In fact, I’ve got it loaded and ready to paste:
But my take on the quote is a bit different. I tie it in with Bernhard’s previous post (and thread): “What are we going to do about it?”
I’ve been wondering about the passivity of the poor and middle class ever since then. For me, that’s a conundrum wrapped in a barbituate swallowed with a bottle of thunderbird. Posted by: koreyel | Jul 13 2004 14:34 utc | 15 @pol
and Cheney reported more than Bush and Kerry combined Posted by: b real | Jul 13 2004 14:37 utc | 16 It’s always amazing to me that so many people buy the Republican portrayal of BabyBush as just a ‘good ole cowboy from Texas’…conveniently forgetting his wealthy patrician New England roots. With that in mind, I’d like to know how much Poppy Bush is worth and how much of his wealth comes from his decades long relationship with the Saudis. Posted by: ByteB | Jul 13 2004 15:21 utc | 17 @Jackmormon: State college tuition credits – that is a great proposal. I wasn’t aware of it, but I agree it is needed and would benefit people who need it and don’t have many options. I got through a state college on a combination of Pell grants, working two to three part-time jobs most of the time, and very limited use of student loans. That was in the 70s, when college was a lot cheaper. Posted by: maxcrat | Jul 13 2004 15:51 utc | 18 Instead of killing each other in the barrios, I sometimes wonder why some of our more enterprising gang members don’t do what they do south of the border and father south, which is target the very rich with kidnapings. I mean, in Mexico, if you’re known to make $100,000 in a year, you’re a target. Here, Michael Eisner walks (well, drive) the streets? Weird. Posted by: Lupin | Jul 13 2004 15:52 utc | 19 The first thing I heard from the Kerry-Edwards campaign that I liked had to do with college tuition: planned tax credit up to 4,000$ per year towards tuition. Then there’s the two-year service buys you “the equivalent of four years at a state school.” Posted by: Blackie | Jul 13 2004 15:54 utc | 20 Has anybody coined a word yet to descirbe something akin to “internet synchronicity”?
Aye…the golden goose. Everytime I’ve an interesting idea I find Bucky beat me to it by 50 or more years. Posted by: koreyel | Jul 13 2004 16:37 utc | 21 Blackie– Posted by: Jackmormon | Jul 13 2004 16:40 utc | 22 Blackie (and Jackmormon)– Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 17:14 utc | 23 PS Blackie, I agree with you that it sounds to me like it’s at least opening the door for national conscription — for both genders — although what “service” one performs is not necessarily what we in the US associate with conscription. Query: Doesn’t France, for example, have a national service like this? Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 17:18 utc | 24 Query: Doesn’t France, for example, have a national service like this? Posted by: æ | Jul 13 2004 17:54 utc | 25 To a certain extent, the “national service” idea is being given trial runs nationwide on a local level. Posted by: SusanG | Jul 13 2004 18:02 utc | 26 doh! should have read Jackmoron’s post first, I guess… Posted by: æ | Jul 13 2004 18:03 utc | 27 SusanG Posted by: NEPAJim | Jul 13 2004 18:11 utc | 28 x @ 10:30 AM Posted by: Juannie | Jul 13 2004 18:17 utc | 29 That’s twice now in the comments here with the kidnapping idea. Not cool. Posted by: mats | Jul 13 2004 18:19 utc | 30 Juannie — Go for it! That sounds very exciting and we’ll look forward to hearing about it. (Like a political blog within a political blog! Very cool!) And good luck. Or break a leg, whatever you prefer 🙂 Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 18:24 utc | 31 I should have included in the previous post the acknowledgment that nowhere was there an explicit statement of support for kidnapping. But both posts struck me not only as wondering why it doesn’t happen but also as implying that it wouldn’t be such a bad idea. Posted by: mats | Jul 13 2004 18:25 utc | 32 re National Service I have to admit I generally like the idea, just because it reminds me of the FDR programs that put people to work. Especially if the kids will be doing the sorts of things that are implied. In this country we could get used to the idea that national service is not just about going off and shooting a good at somebody: that it could be about helping kids in school and all other worthwhile peace-building and human-building things. Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 18:30 utc | 33 Koyerel @ 10:34 AM Posted by: Juannie | Jul 13 2004 18:31 utc | 34 shooting a good at somebody Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 18:31 utc | 35 Quoth SusanG: Posted by: æ | Jul 13 2004 18:37 utc | 36 Koyerel @ 10:34 AM Posted by: Juannie | Jul 13 2004 19:09 utc | 37 I agree that mandatory service is not terrible. Switzerland, for example, has it. I also agree that some kind of national ‘community service’ for all (ages between 18 – 22 say) is not a bad idea, depending on time, place, how it is done, etc. Why not? Here, high school leavers, in some programs, also do consequent community service, and it is beneficial to all. But note: it is entirely separate from the army. Humanitarian projects, environmental work, or taking care of the old, sick, are not under the same administration as learning to drive a tank or shoot enemies. (Cf. the confusion in Iraq between defeating an enemy and rebuilding a country by painting schools and digging ditches – essentially repairing what one has oneself destroyed..) Posted by: Blackie | Jul 13 2004 19:13 utc | 38 The original: Posted by: Blackie | Jul 13 2004 19:50 utc | 40 I guess it all depends on how you define “good works,” doesn’t it? Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 19:56 utc | 41 Very fine, Blackie. The quote from Clark is to die for. People, who’ve never laid eyes on that quote, are dying for it as we speak (dying because of it, dying on its behalf). Posted by: alabama | Jul 13 2004 20:44 utc | 43 You can tell I’m getting exercised when my typing goes all to hell…. Posted by: alabama | Jul 13 2004 20:47 utc | 44 Blackie @ 03:50 PM Posted by: Juannie | Jul 13 2004 21:08 utc | 45 I don’t get it alabama. Is om , Om of yogic origin? And if so, how does it fit into your following sentence? Posted by: Juannie | Jul 13 2004 21:21 utc | 46 (I think he probably meant “in”–see his note about typing, just moved his hand a little to the right on the keyboard) Posted by: x | Jul 13 2004 21:23 utc | 48 “I am the light of the world” Posted by: ck | Jul 13 2004 21:26 utc | 49 classwarfare
If this is the trend and if you follow it long enough it curtainly leads to real class warfare. Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 13 2004 21:27 utc | 50 to all who’ve expressed agreement with a mandatory civil service, i’ve often thought of that issue/possibility as a means of impressing on new voters the importance of their first civic duty – to get involved, to become vested in the health of their community (local on up)… to vote. if i were a civics teacher i would try to have my class monitor the polling places. Posted by: esme | Jul 13 2004 22:03 utc | 52 |
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