“Administration Committed War Crimes”

July 16, 2004

via NY Sun , Jul 8, 2004, a report on Hersh speaking at an ACLU dinner on July 7.

Journalist Seymour Hersh yesterday accused President Bush and Vice President Cheney of committing war crimes in their prosecution of the war on terror before he backed off the charge somewhat, saying he was not certain the two leaders were culpable as individuals.

“What we had was a series of massive crimes,

criminal activity by the president and the vice president — hold on — by this administration anyway. I can say that.I can’t say…I can’t state who did it.The only way to look at this is as war crimes. What happened, there are war crimes,” Mr. Hersh said during a speech to the national conference of the American Civil Liberties Union

As he unleashed the most inflammatory charge, Mr. Hersh was cheered by the crowd.

“I’m not saying it’s there yet. It’s not there yet, but that’s where it has to go. We have to stop looking at it as some kind of an academic debate about the Geneva Convention,” Mr. Hersh said.

The veteran journalist, who exposed the abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, said some of the most heinous actions by American soldiers had yet to be disclosed by the government. Mr. Hersh said the undisclosed evidence includes videos of young male prisoners being sodomized.

Mr. Hersh called top leaders at the White House and the Defense Department neo-conservative “cultists.”

“It’s not the Manson clan, but we really have been taken over,” he said. Mr. Hersh singled out the deputy secretary of defense, Paul Wolfowitz, for particular criticism,repeatedly comparing him to Russian revolutionary Leon Trotsky.

via The Independent Jul 16, 2004

He said: “The boys were sodomised with the cameras rolling, and the worst part is the soundtrack, of the boys shrieking. And this is your government at war.”

He accused the US administration, and all but accused President George Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney of complicity in covering up what he called “war crimes”.

Juan Cole asks:

Does anyone else see an irony here? Isn’t this the same administration that just tried to tinker with the United States constitution in order to prevent government sanction for sodomy?

(A video (realplayer) of the Hersh speech is available here.)

Update 10:30 AM

news.google.com search for “Hersh” brings up:
– Collective Bellaciao, France
– Independent, UK
– Antiwar.com
– Infoshop News

www.google.com search for “Hersh” brings up:
– NY Sun
– Infoshop News

Thats it.

NYT: Congress’s Inquiry Into Abuse of Iraqi Prisoners Bogs Down.

Anyone wondering why?

Posted by b on July 16, 2004 at 11:28 UTC | Permalink

Comments

I may duplicating this link to this crowd. It’s dated March 30, 2003 but I’ve never seen it before. It is the most stinging and well written indictment of the Bush clan I’ve yet to read. I think it fits into this thread.
Link
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6481.htm if link doesn’t work.
Excerpt:
At the beginning of the 21st century, all nations, rich or poor, whether governed by the right or by the left, everyone, everyone, with the exception of those living in the land of the aggressor—who are only now beginning to awaken from their slumber—, are aware that war as an irrational crusade is capable of changing mankind. We know that unjust war is a catastrophe which stunts the possibility of man discovering his humanity. We join our planetary hands to tell the hired assassin in the White House that there is a life and a breed of man less sordid than he, and that we are ready to stand up and defend it. This is my reply, Mr Ambassador.
Dr. Federico Fasano Mertens, editor of LA REPUBLICA.

Posted by: Juannie | Jul 16 2004 11:59 utc | 1

They think they will get away with this. They are probably right.

Posted by: semper ubi | Jul 16 2004 14:15 utc | 2

We have to stop looking at it as some kind of an academic debate about the Geneva Convention
Thank you Bernhard, for this.
And thank you, Seymour Hersh. If nothing else, we can at least be thankful for him.

Posted by: x | Jul 16 2004 14:39 utc | 3

Little bit O/T (but somehow connected) and I apologize for it greatly but I have an urge to inform you on this cause this is a man your government appointed as a head of state in Iraq after this criminal event…Even UN were in favor of him…and four Americans were witnesses according to this story in Sydney Morning Herald:
http://www.smh.com.au/
Allawi shot inmates in cold blood, say witnesses
Paul McGeough, Chief Herald Correspondent, in Baghdad]
Iyad Allawi, the new Prime Minister of Iraq, pulled a pistol and executed as many as six suspected insurgents at a Baghdad police station, just days before Washington handed control of the country to his interim government, according to two people who allege they witnessed the killings.
…
A former CIA officer, Vincent Cannisatraro, recently told The New Yorker: “If you’re asking me if Allawi has blood on his hands from his days in London, the answer is yes, he does. He was a paid Mukhabarat [intelligence] agent for the Iraqis, and he was involved in dirty stuff.”
***
And this journalist is highly respected here in Australia…

Posted by: vbo | Jul 16 2004 14:43 utc | 4

vbo
Saddam Version 2, only better. Comes with 150,000 US troops and Negroponte.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 16 2004 14:52 utc | 5

This is not going to go away, I read an article on it last night, I can’t find the story now, but Sen. Warner has more public hearings scheduled, some of them starting in September.
Here is one article, not the one I read last night though, Congress’ Iraq abuse hearings on hold ’til fall
This one is closer to what I read last night, but still not the exact one.
Lull in Iraq Prison Probe Won’t Last, Senator Says

Posted by: sukabi | Jul 16 2004 14:55 utc | 6

More on the Abu Ghraib torture scandal.
General faces Abu Ghraib scrutiny

WASHINGTON – Among the handful of Army officers facing scrutiny in the investigation of abuses at Abu Ghraib prison, Maj. Gen. Barbara Fast is perhaps the least known, but among the most important.
Fast, 50, the senior intelligence officer in Iraq, was the key conduit for orders and information that related to Abu Ghraib, which she visited frequently, including the infamous cellblocks 1A and 1B, where abuses took place.
…
Fast was aware of at least some of the Abu Ghraib activities of CIA personnel, a number of whom are being questioned about the abuses and at least one death, according to the writings of a civilian interrogator at Abu Ghraib, Joe Ryan, who worked for the Virginia-based contractor CACI International.
In a Web diary that is part of a court exhibit filed by Iraqis who claim they were abused at the prison, Ryan wrote: “The CIA has proven once again they are incompetent boobs. … They have General Fast’s ire. They cannot set foot on Abu Ghurayb without her expressed permission.”….

This is a pretty detailed article, pulls more of the pieces together.

Posted by: sukabi | Jul 16 2004 15:12 utc | 7

ugh… this is so disheartening. What is wrong with these people? By which I mean the command, obviously, but the individual guards as well. I know I’ve never been under that kind of stress or indoctornation, but how anyone can be reduced to the level of sodomizing children in front of their mothers is so beyond me; it is a completely pathological state. It makes me sick, it makes me want to just get away, stop reading the news, put my head in the sand with the rest of the GenPop.
Sorry for the lack of substance, I just had to vent.

Posted by: æ | Jul 16 2004 15:22 utc | 8

ae,
I share your disgust and lack of substance. It’s hard to find what to say.
Except: What kind of person was holding the camera, that he/she didn’t intervene???????

Posted by: SusanG | Jul 16 2004 15:28 utc | 9

Bernhard, I don’t think this is going to slide down the memory hole. I think there is a fair amount of political manuvering going on to get the largest public impact. I’ve read several articles that state public hearings are going to be held in September. Why September? Well, supposedly to give the military investigations a chance to conclude, but the timing couldn’t be better in terms of the election.
Public hearings in September, on TV, after the conventions. Nothing good for bushco can come out of this. Any October/November Surprise would be viewed as a desperate attempt to cling to power.

Posted by: sukabi | Jul 16 2004 15:41 utc | 10

@SusanG
Evil pyscopaths

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 16 2004 15:47 utc | 11

Except: What kind of person was holding the camera, that he/she didn’t intervene???????
no sh*t, huh? It’s one of those twisted ironies: it’s good to have proof, yet obviously that evidence requires complicity at minimum.
And you know this kind of crap goes on in our own jails, too.
I’ve long felt that while we might need politicians and police, anyone who actually wants to do either job should be treated with intense suspicion (no offense I hope, Juannie). Power over other people? I sure don’t want it. It is nearly impossible not to abuse it, to a greater or lesser degree.

Posted by: æ | Jul 16 2004 16:15 utc | 12

Has any of the material that Hersh refers to been posted on the net? If not, I think it should be. I’m aware of the downside here, but I think the reality of the thing has to be brought home, and I know of no better way to do it.
It would help us understand Hersh a little better. I think of him as a cool customer, given the beat he covers.
I think filmed footage of Auschwitz would have been valuable in the same way.

Posted by: alabama | Jul 16 2004 16:29 utc | 13

What kind of person was holding the camera
That’s the really terrifying question, isn’t it Susan, and all that goes with it?
Like, was this some official policy? Some cold-blooded, sanctioned, systematic camera holding going on??
And we think we’ve heard about the banality of evil.

Posted by: x | Jul 16 2004 16:30 utc | 14

Bernhard….
I don’t know if you saw my comments at the annex–before I abandoned that site, but I commented there that I was whisper away from dropping everything and building a dedicated site to Sy Hersh (his articles and now video links).
If you have got the megabytes and the bandwidth I’d like to recommend that idea to you.
I’d love to contribute.
Just an idea….
I could of course do it myself at one of the so-called free hosting sites. And may yet…as it so wants doing.
——-
In the meanwhile…the Hersh talk is extraordinary. It begins circa 1:08. One of the most devastating blunt remarks takes place at around 1:15:30 where Hersh explains why the New Yorker self-censored:
“How much can you levy on Arab manhood in public?”
Later on in the talk, at about 1:31:00 Sy looks at his notes and says mostly to himself “…debating about it…” He then makes up his mind on the fly and speaks about the rape of young boys.
Fascinating…at that moment he decides to leak to the audience and the world the depth of the depravity…and it is forever preserved on video tape.

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 16 2004 16:32 utc | 15

At the time this was shown to the Senators on the Intelligence Committee, we can remember their shocked responses on how it’s much, much worse than we could imagine, and Rummy’s statements that it would not be good for the public to know.
So is this the worst of it? Or is there more to come?

Posted by: x | Jul 16 2004 16:36 utc | 16

(or maybe that was the Armed Services Committee…)

Posted by: x | Jul 16 2004 16:40 utc | 17

Steve Gilliard on Sexual torture at Abu Ghraib

Sy Hersh seems perplexed as to how Americans could rape teenage boys. I am not. Americans have a long, deep racist streak, everyone, black, white, it doesn’t matter. Arabs have been the popular enemy of our imaginations for a decade. One could look at any number of movies and video games and see Arabs as the people Americans kill and humiliate. So when stuck in a strange country, surrounded by hostile people who do not speak your language, not wanting to be there, it’s easy to hate people who think are trying to kill you. This is where Bush’s lies turned into poison. Those soldiers were told that they were protecting the United States, and the people they had in custody would as soon kill 3000 Americans as breathe. Which was untrue.

It is a short step from that to prison rape. Told that they had to break these prisoners, they took their children and raped them. It doesn’t take much to suss out the perverts in a unit. Given the odds of having a pedophile or two around, and the penchent of 19 year olds to have sex with anything that moves, it wasn’t hard to find potential rapists. Especially when placed under the color of authority.

Posted by: ck | Jul 16 2004 16:46 utc | 18

is there more to come?
There are women and girls being held in the prisons, and yet no one is talking bluntly about their experiences. There have been references to “sex with females” and questions as to whether it was consensual. I find that absurd. A prisoner cannot by nature give consent. They have NO CHOICE, NO POWER. It is RAPE.
For Iraqi women, Abu Ghraib’s taint
…

Now that there are real pictures of US troops sexually humiliating Iraqi women, reality and rumors have tangled inseparably. “With the pictures and the CDs, it becomes almost irrelevant if they’re raped or not,” says Manal Omar, the Iraq coordinator of Women for Women, which helps women in former war zones. “Even before the torture, the rumor was out that they were raping women in the prison. With or without the pictures from the porn site, the real pictures made people believe that. It made that rumor fact.”
…
In Iraq, even a whisper of rape is enough to dishonor a woman – and her family. Sometimes families will even kill women who have been raped to “wash” the stain from the family name.
That may be what happened to one girl, rumored to have been pregnant when she was released. “Her father and brother wanted to kill her,” says Huda al-Nuaimi, a professor at Baghdad University who is interviewing female prisoners as a volunteer for Amnesty International. “The sheikh of the mosque and the neighbors stopped them, because she was raped, and it wasn’t her fault.”
But when Dr. Nuaimi went to visit the girl, her family had moved away. The neighbors told her they didn’t know where they went – unusual in Aadhimiyah, the girl’s tight-knit Baghdad neighborhood. “I wonder whether this girl is still alive,” says Ms. Nuaimi, a professor who wears a tiny silver outline of Iraq around her neck. “I think, given this local custom, it would be very difficult for her to stay alive.”
….

Posted by: sukabi | Jul 16 2004 17:04 utc | 19

Sorry x ( no malice) but I don’t see how it could come worse then this…They were only merciful to those Iraqis that they killed straight away. What worse comes to mind is : did they cooked their children alive and chewed them…
I will never come to the terms how raping children became an “ordinary little crime” in western societies. If for anything I would like to see death penalty for this crime…

Posted by: vbo | Jul 16 2004 17:05 utc | 20

What’s the quote about what evil men do and the people who are innocent and kept quiet about are just as guilty.
If this story breaks and heads roll and Bush and his gang of thugs are brought down, I’m nominating Hersch for the Nobel prize.
Also, remember that gang of thugs wrote the PNAC and a good few of them are fascist Zionists. And, we all know what the Zionists think about their race and the Arab dogs.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 16 2004 17:17 utc | 21

vbo
I see your point of view. I suppose I am shell-shocked now into expecting all kinds of things I can’t even imagine. “Worse” now seems a territory I feel we have stumbled into and I can’t rule it out in principle anymore, is all I meant. But you’re right about the heinousness of the crime.

Posted by: x | Jul 16 2004 17:23 utc | 22

sukabi:
They have NO CHOICE, NO POWER. It is RAPE.
Right. And maybe more than rape, maybe a death sentence, too.
Worse would be, is this really confined to one prison? I for one don’t think so, and I believe I’ve read testimony of Arab journalists mistreated at other prisons.

Posted by: x | Jul 16 2004 17:26 utc | 23

“Fast, whose career has ascended rapidly, has been given a plum assignment when she leaves Iraq next month: commander of the Army’s intelligence center and school at Fort Huachuca, Ariz., where she served a brief tour as assistant commandant.”
I can think of a more useful job for her when she gets there, something like a crash test dummy.

Posted by: beq | Jul 16 2004 18:09 utc | 24

At the time this was shown to the Senators on the Intelligence Committee, we can remember their shocked responses on how it’s much, much worse than we could imagine
I heard this at the time, and it makes me sick. These Senators KNOW what was going on, and they are still trying to hide it, to let it out only when politically least-inconvenient. They still value politics and power over punishing those responsible for this. As far as I am concerned, anyone in our government who has seen the evidence and has chosen NOT to prosecute those responsible, is an accessory to this crime. They should all go to the Hague. But they won’t. Even a Kerry administration will let them off the hook and try to sweep it under the rug, in the interest of preventing the “humiliation of our country.” Too late. The deeds are done.
I am disgusted.

Posted by: semper ubi | Jul 16 2004 18:31 utc | 25

“The natives are revolting sir!” “Tell me something new, we’ve always thought the Arabs were revolting.”
Senior Sunni cleric calls for Holy War against US forces in Iraq
Something seems to have riled those people, wonder what it could be?

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 18:48 utc | 26

As far as I am concerned, anyone in our government who has seen the evidence and has chosen NOT to prosecute those responsible, is an accessory to this crime.
The Dims and the Repugs….Sodom and Gomorrah…
Well… lest you think your government isn’t on the ball… Martha Stewart is on her way to jail as proof that Wall Street has cleaned it’s nefarious ways.
They art now the salt of the earth…
So come on down y’all…invest again in America’s finest companies. No need to fear you will be raped or sodomized by them. No worries at all…
[Fascist ad of the future coming to a 40 inch screen near you: Ronald Reagan remastered saying: “I’m a multinational corporation too. Trust in America companies…Invest in them…”]

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 16 2004 19:39 utc | 27

A couple other things about the Hersh speech:
1
Perhaps the most chilling moment of all is when he describes the hand over of sovereignity.
He talks about the 3 main networks being called in to witness the transfer and says:
“…we are making the pictures and believing them now too…”
2
The tone of talk at the end is distinctly sad. I almost felt Hersh was near tears. Maybe I imagined that… but I think not: Hersh is distinctly not given to public displays of emotion, yet, the heaviness upon him was palpable.
Which all goes to say: that is one gem of a speech. Pure must see.

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 16 2004 19:54 utc | 28

I despair for the Good Americans with this story. I worry for the rest of the planet.

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 16 2004 20:02 utc | 29

Does your outrage force a response?
Pentagon to change prisoner policy
Or will the new policy simply be no cameras, videos or recording equipment to be allowed in prisons?

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 20:13 utc | 30

@semper ubi
one of the first things a Kerry administration will do is to give general persidential pardon to Bush and everybody in the current administration. After that they will prosecute the privates, sergants and some captains harshly because “they deserve so for the crimes they committed”

Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 16 2004 21:11 utc | 31

Oil? No it is Democracy and Freedom

Posted by: Cloned Poster | Jul 16 2004 21:23 utc | 32

Which all goes to say: that is one gem of a speech. Pure must see.
Sorry koreyel, but I disagree.
I haven’t seen F-911 but have heard the emotions and realizations of those who did and then came close to our (Bar/Moon patrons) realizations since 911 or soon thereafter.
The Pure must know but move on, without dwelling; and transcend it to the point where we can each spend our time discovering and following our own individual bliss.
What am i talking about? i posted the first comment today, off thread, and indicative of my inability to follow my own counsel.

Posted by: Juannie | Jul 16 2004 21:36 utc | 33

A new era of truth, decency and objectivity sweeps into being at the New York Times – editorial admits to more errors over Iraq reportage, subtly hints that North Korea, Syria and Iran should be bombed into oblivion to make up for Iraq ‘mistake’.
“….Saddam Hussein was indisputably a violent and vicious tyrant, but an unprovoked attack that antagonized the Muslim world and fractured the international community of peaceful nations was not the solution. There were, and are, equally brutal and potentially more dangerous dictators in power elsewhere. Saddam Hussein and his rotting army were not a threat even to the region, never mind to the United States. …”
‘NY Times’ admits ‘mistakes’ in Iraq war editorials
The ‘New York Times’ – making (up) the news as it goes along. But hey, they’re sorry so everything’s fine now, right?

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 22:03 utc | 34

And damn that ‘groupthink’ – it must be a pretty enormous group!

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 22:05 utc | 35

NYT
That editorial managed not to mention Judith Miller, the NYT reporter on record who did the most hyped stories out of Chalabies mouth -of course sanctioned by the editors.
Cowards!

Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 16 2004 22:17 utc | 36

MESSAGE TO THE MEDIA: When children are involved, as a person with a megaphone, you have the capability of getting to the bottom of the story. And because children are potentially involved as victims of heinous activity, every single one of you have a MORAL OBLIGATION to investigate tell us if these reports are truth, bullshit, or somewhere in between.
And if there’s truth, then there should be a billion person march on Washington, D.C. to run every stinkin’, coverin’ up son-of-a-bitch elected politician and bureaucrat out of the city who turned a blind eye to the outrage. I’ll volunteer to lead the parade, and even bring a few tiki torches from my back yard.
Tribal Memory

Posted by: Richard Cranium | Jul 16 2004 22:26 utc | 37

Abu Ghraib Inc.
Of course let it never be forgotten that to some extent the torture in Abu Ghraib was a privatized business operation, Israel gets paid for ‘training’, James Woolsey – former CIA chief – gets paid for taking a seat with one of the firms involved in the torture, it’s the American way after all. ‘Contracting out’ the nasty work means that ‘plausible deniability’ works the same as it ever did.
Rewriting Iraq’s history – blurring the story
@ Bernhard
Judith Miller’s ‘connected’ – it probably isn’t allowed to criticize her!

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 22:26 utc | 38

Interesting post over at Eschaton.
Iyad Allawi, the new Prime Minister of Iraq, pulled a pistol and executed as many as six suspected insurgents at a Baghdad police station, just days before Washington handed control of the country to his interim government, according to two people who allege they witnessed the killings.

Posted by: Gozer | Jul 16 2004 22:30 utc | 39

Dammit, disregard the above. vbo got it. Sorry.

Posted by: Gozer | Jul 16 2004 22:31 utc | 40

Anybody else get the feeling the whole country is in denial about the Iraq mess?
I mean complete top down denial: a kind of pychological sickness?
The whole god damn parade is ill– from Sir Bushitalot and his Round table neocon cult, to the corporate media crowd with their non-stop sanitizing of the war…all the way down to the minimum wagers in their brown bowling shirts…it is all deny deny deny.
Complete bald-faced denial. It’s like the Titanic all over again…and the band is playing on and on.
What we are seeing here is complete avoidance of the reality that this war was a totally fucked up decision from the get go.
Little boy bush with his finger in the dyke…and everybody standing behind him because they don’t want to see him fail…he is such a nice little boy.
Sy Hersh said Iraq will be known as the “trillon dollar war.”
Anybody out there besides me feel that we are seeing mass delusion of nearly unprecedented proportions?
Wow!
A trillion fucking dollars…

Posted by: koreyel | Jul 16 2004 22:31 utc | 41

Allawi move greeted with approval by lovers of policemen’s wives – and the wives
”Hi, is that you?”
”Yes habibiti, it’s me.”
”He’s just left, he should be driving down Haifa Street in about ten minutes. I hid his bullet proof vest so try a couple into his mid-section before the head shot.”
”Will do habibiti, you are the best, you know that?”
”Just do it right, and we can take a holiday when I get compensated for the traitor.”
”OK, see you tonight, oh star of my mornings and nights.”
”Bye habibi, and remember, two in the gut and then between the eyes.”
”You say the sweetest things habibiti! Bye.”
Relatives of murdered Iraqi policemen to get wage for life

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 22:46 utc | 42

Sheikh Jawad al-Khalisi – the man to back in Iraq
The Iraqi leader seeking a peaceful path to liberation

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 16 2004 22:57 utc | 43

As far as I am concerned, anyone in our government who has seen the evidence and has chosen NOT to prosecute those responsible, is an accessory to this crime.
-I’m with you, Semper Ubi…and the MEDIA is complicit in protecting alleged war criminals at the highest levels of the govt.
additionally, it is really important to remember that the reason “that they could all agree on” as Wolfowitz said, was the WMD lies.
So, how many people (60% of whom were innocent, Taguba said), were tortured because the military was seeking info on WMD?
How many people were tortured because those who were innocent gave names of other innocent people…simply to stop the torture?
And, yes, Richard. I am ready and willing to march on Washington to demand that my govt arrest and try those responsible for waging this war for war crimes.
It’s extremely important to let your dem. reps know you will not stand for a sham investigation, much less a pardon.
The entire govt can fall, as far as I’m concerned, if they cover this up. They don’t deserve to govern if they are willing to let Bush get away with the rape of children.

Posted by: fauxreal | Jul 17 2004 2:13 utc | 44

Countries left in the coaltion of the billing:
Italy in Nasiriyah [2,700] – carabinieri, infantry and engineers
Poland in South Central Iraq [2,400] – infantry. Will cut the number of troops dramatically after the Jan 04 ‘elections’.
Ukraine in Kut [1,700] – infantry. Not leaving their base.
Netherlands in Samawah [1,400] – MPs, infantry, marines w/ choppers
Australia [250]
South Korea in Arbil [600] – medics and engineers in Nasiriyah. 3000 inf soldiers, special forces and tanks to be sent to Irbil later in 2004.
Romania [700] – infantry
Japan in Samawah [550] – medics and engineers. Will double contingent to 550 later in 2004.
Bulgaria in Karbala [485] – infantry. Guarding municipal buildings and town center.
Denmark in Samawah [500] – infantry (plus submarine & warship off coast)
El Salvador in Najaf [360] special forces – commitment expires in Aug 2004, renewal possible.
Hungary [300]
Shaheed | 07.16.04 – 4:55 pm | #
——————————————————————————–
Singapore [190]
Mongolia [180]
Azerbaijan [151]
Latvia [122]
Lithuania [105]
Slovakia [105] – either NBC soldiers or MPs.
Czech Republic [80] Military policemen – leaving in early 2005
Albania [70] either non-combat troops or MPs in Mosul. Increase possible.
Georgia [160] – Will increase to 600 later in 2004, 440 infantry and special forces on way.
Estonia at Tallil AB [55] – special forces troops
Kazakhstan [49] – possibly de-miners
F.Y.R.O.M [28] – special forces troops
Moldova [24]
Tonga [45] – Royal Marines in Anbar Prov.

Posted by: Shaheed | Jul 17 2004 3:19 utc | 45

@ Shaheed
And Thailand, 451 troops on ‘Humanitarian mission’, currently remaining in camp at Karbala, leaving Iraq by September 20th
Thai troops to quit Iraq by September 20th
And of course the British, a race easily overlooked in the same way that one would miss seeing a snake hidden behind a rock. They will remain for as long as the US tells them to.

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 17 2004 3:32 utc | 46

Karl Rove isn’t working
US public support drops for Iraq policy – majority now see attack and occupation as a mistake

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 17 2004 3:42 utc | 47

I’m not quite sure if this is OT or not. But whatever it is, it scares me.
9/11 Panel Is Said to Urge New Post for Intelligence
By PHILIP SHENON
WASHINGTON, July 16 – The final report of the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks will recommend the creation of a cabinet-level post to oversee the nation’s intelligence agencies, a position that would take power away from the C.I.A., the F.B.I., the National Security Council, the Pentagon and other agencies that face blistering criticism from the panel, government officials who have seen the report said.
(continued)

Posted by: x | Jul 17 2004 4:48 utc | 48

The Adventures of Cajones Dem!
Democrats held Hostage
“What’s that you say, oh yes, of course, bend over and grab my ankles. Like this?”
“Beg pardon, you need to hear me say, ‘I like it this way.’ OK, yes indeed.”
“Now you want me to say how much I want it. Yes, of course, can I say it louder for you?”
“Cut them off myself? I can do that and would you like them giftwrapped?”
“Rip my self a new one so you can have another go? Hey, no problem.”
“Thank you, come again.”

Posted by: SME in Seattle | Jul 17 2004 5:07 utc | 49

The “former” CIA agent, Vince is quite the PR guy. I haven’t made my mind up as yet, is he one of the “good guys” ?
Google Search

Posted by: fiumana bella | Jul 17 2004 5:20 utc | 50

“I will never come to the terms how raping children became an “ordinary little crime” in western societies. If for anything I would like to see death penalty for this crime…
As a pacifist, and against the death penalty (duh), I would make an exception in this case without giving it second thought.
When I spoke of Robespierre the other day, I wasn’t joking. Pull up a slab of (still) sharpened steel, four or five feet high, and let gravity do its thing.
I’ve long felt that while we might need politicians and police, anyone who actually wants to do either job should be treated with intense suspicion
ae, I wish I didn’t not share your cynicism. I have to paraphrase something I read on one of the three “Whiskey” sites, so bear (bare?) with me: the president should be selected ad random from the population at large. Being a politician (or police person) shouldn’t be someting we would want to do. It’s a duty, and beyond control. If you’re picked, you take one for the team: no ifs, ands or buts…
“Worse” now seems a territory I feel we have stumbled into and I can’t rule it out in principle anymore
I used to somewhat enjoy wearing the tinfoil hat: – as if it would give me a capacity to worry beyond the fears that were “commonly acknowlegded”. But now, there is no end, no fears are “worse” than what I can imagine anymore.
War crimes, ultimate sin, 9 rings of hell…
Intra Siestri e Chiaveri s’adima
una fiumana bella, e del suo nome
lo titol del mio sangue fa sua cima.
Dante Alighieri, Purgatorio, Canto XIX.

Posted by: fiumana bella | Jul 17 2004 6:23 utc | 51

Betraying Iraqi Women
Lucinda Marshall
July 16, 2004
…

Lack of security or a functional police force to which to report sexual violence is a huge problem for women, who are afraid to leave their houses and face increased sexual violence both inside and out of their homes.
Unquestionably, the most explicit—as well as most-discounted and least-reported—atrocities committed against Iraqi women have been at the hands of the U.S. military. The International Occupation Watch Center, Amnesty International and the International Red Cross have all documented physical and sexual abuse against women prisoners in Abu Ghraib and other prisons. The exact number of women being held is not known. But U.S. forces have acknowledged that most are being held because of their relationship to men that U.S. forces want to question or intimidate—not for crimes they themselves have committed.
Consequently, the number of honor killings is also on the rise. It is horrific enough that in U.S.-run prisons, such as Abu Ghraib, women were raped (and impregnated), sexually abused and humiliated in ways similar to the abuse committed against men. But the worst aspect is that for many people in Iraq, the abuse of a woman in any way (even the mere act of being imprisoned) is seen as an assault on the family’s honor. Traditionally, the response to this has been to cleanse the honor of the family by killing the woman who has been violated (an honor killing). While the practice is officially discouraged, legal consequences are rare. As a result, the actions of our military have effectively condemned many of these women to death.

OT, but the NYT is running this VoteToImpeach.org(pdf) ad in the print version, according to Buzzflash.com

Posted by: sukabi | Jul 17 2004 7:04 utc | 52

It’s hard to get Justice in Iraq
Iraqi Justice Minister escapes assassination bid

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 17 2004 7:05 utc | 53

forgot to close the blockquote

Posted by: sukabi | Jul 17 2004 7:05 utc | 54

Sell shares in Italian hotels and guest houses now!
Al-Qaeda orders Italy to withdraw troops from Iraq – or else…

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 17 2004 7:25 utc | 55

Nemo, that was pretty OT but the inadvertent snark was appreciated…
“We have sent messages in the past but the Italian government did not understand because it only understands the language of blood and jihad (holy war),” said the statement.
The group also sent “a second message to the Italian people and government” telling them to “bear the consequences” of rejecting a peace offer from Osama bin Laden
Riiiing…. riiing…. ring..
O: Salam aleikum!
S: Si, pronto?
O: Oh, it is you! My italian friend
S: Si, yes my friend, it is Silvio! I got your meassages, sorry I coldn’t get back to you any earlier.
O: No problem buddy. Good to hear your voice! Yeah, yeah, I sent you a second message… I was afraid you didn’t understand.
S: Hah, too funny! Ossie, you’re one of a kind. Anyway, here’s the deal, I just got off the phone with Karl Wojtyla. That Kerry boy can’t be allowed to ruin the party, fucking atheist abortioner, we need Little Boots to stick it out a bit longer. You dig?
O: Sheesh, no f’in way! I’m done with that moron. It gets boring and lonesome here in the mountains you know? Oh, by the way, can you send over some new batteries for the dialysis machine? I’m running our of spares.
S: Fine, I’ll put it on your tab. Will have a bunch dropped off with Al-Zawahiri, that ok with you? Anyway, not kidding, we’d like you to do something before the November elections. My cowboy friend looks like shit in the polls, we have to rally the, pfft.. troops! Hold on, Alessandra is just coming in – God, she’s gorgeous – do you want to talk to her?
O: Yah, man I love those curls.
A: Ciao bello, carissimo come stai?!
O: Oh love of my life, it it lonely here in the mountains but I cope. How are you? I wish to see you soon In sh’allah.
A: Me too, but first listen good to uncle Silvio. You know we have to keep the idiot from Texas on his pony, you understand? Capisci?
O: Yes darling, I’ll see what I can d….
C: Dingggg… This is your COMVERSE operator, your account balance is 3 dollars and 11 cents. To make further calls, please recharge your phone credit. Dingggg….
A: Che cazzo, he’s gone!
S: Merda, you can’t trust those fucking towelheads anyway! Come over here darling and show me those curls!

Posted by: fiumana bella | Jul 17 2004 8:28 utc | 56

Rahul Mahajan of Empire Notes writes about Hershs allegations.

Forgetting about the claims of U.S. moral supremacy, let’s examine the basis for a simple claim: the United States government is better than Saddam Hussein’s government. It seems to me that this can in theory rest on a variety of claims:
1. We kill fewer people.
2. We may kill more, but we don’t use the evil methods he uses.
3. We may kill more and use methods just as evil, but we do lots of good to make up for it.
4. We do just as much evil, don’t make up for it by doing any good, but at least we thoroughly investigate and acknowledge past evil before once again pretending that it has no bearing on current policy.

Posted by: Bernhard | Jul 17 2004 8:35 utc | 57

Does this constitute a war crime? It probably can never be proven.

Posted by: mdm | Jul 17 2004 11:21 utc | 58

I’ve only just seen the video of Hersh’s speech. To me, he behaves like a man who knows that the future will probably be very unpleasant. Time and again, he makes gestures and remarks that all amount to a general statement: “The horror has happened, there is nothing we can do about it. We can only try to bring it out into the open and live with the consequences.”
I agree with the comments above that this is a man with a heavy burden on his shoulders. What makes it probably worse for him is that he knows quite a number of good people within the system, and he sees their pain and helplessness.
One of the most remarkable moments for me is when he demands of the host hugging him all too closely: “Let me go.” The mark of a good journalist: he will not make himself too common with any cause, even if it is a good one. Still, the overall impression is depressing and even scary, exactly because the man comes across as trustworthy and concerned.

Posted by: teuton | Jul 17 2004 12:51 utc | 59

…A senior Army official said Friday that Army investigators had questioned Lt. Col. Steven L. Jordan, the head of the interrogation center at Abu Ghraib prison, and other officers at the prison about the death of the Iraqi prisoner. They have also been questioned about the deaths of other detainees at Abu Ghraib….
US Army Lieutenant-Colonel questioned in connection with prisoner deaths at Abu Ghraib

Posted by: Nemo | Jul 18 2004 9:34 utc | 60

koreyel
Think your comment above might be on to something.Although this denial thing, particularly with regards to the media, like today reporting 10 terrorsts killed in Fallujah,another said 10 people killed,another said 10 civilians including 2 children killed by US airstrikes, is pretty much the garden variety type denial,sanding away the “rough edges” of the story,so as not to appear obsessed with negative.
I think the prison scandal,and those photos, make this something much much more.First off, they obliterate any claims of moral superiority with regards to the geopolitical world, and the arrogance which other nations were ridiculed for not towing the line,our way or the highway.I think the international emberassment that many Americans feel,over those photos and the scandal, really challenges in a fundamental way, core notions of national identity.
Some things I learned in VN was that a sense of personal identity is in perpetual assault in a war zone.Things you’re “trained” to do, things you do, and things you have to do to stay alive, will wreak havoc on the boundarys that establish a functional person. I think that PTS thing is ,essentially, people who have lost touch with their identity,their actions have made them into someone they dont know anymore, and they cant get back.
I think the prison scandal has realeased a similar breech onto the identity of the country in front of the world.That growing sense of panic, that the ideals of the country are seriously adrift has to be disconcerting across political lines.I cant imagine that the usual, obstreperous patriotic hubris dished out by the administration can patch this piece of humty back together again.The repackaging of the atrocity of war into heroics might piece an individual back together,but those pictures make us all a participant with our parts askew.

Posted by: anna mist | Jul 19 2004 8:16 utc | 61

Thanks for laying that out again clearly Anna Mist.
Remember, these perps are so deeply mired in the lying and murdering that it is impossible for them to EVER withdraw, admit error, or surrender the power they have gained. A careful study of the back-page news, going back many years actually, shows that anyone who knows too much and tries to share it is whacked within a few days/weeks. Dr. David Kelly is a good recent example.
This is why whoever published the Abu Ghraib pics did so very carefully. And why, so far, we have seen so little of the true origins of the 9/11 attacks. When/if this stuff comes out it could cause a tremendous, explosive even, collapse of all our indoctrinated rationale for not only preemptive war, not only war, but most of the cherished “western values” we were raised on.
Talk about denial. How many people do you know who would accept that there were no Arabs on those four airplanes in 2001? Even in the face of proveable facts. It is too painful.
We are up against something much darker and more sinister than you can imagine; the plan isn’t working as designed and this “something” is getting desperate. That is one good sign among many bad ones.

Posted by: rapt | Jul 19 2004 13:42 utc | 62

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