Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 26, 2018

The Trap Failed - Rosenstein Neither Fired Nor Resigned

Last Friday the New York Times published a story that reflected negatively on the loyalty of Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein towards President Trump. Rosenstein, the NYT claimed, suggested to wiretap Trump and to remove him by using the 25th amendment. Other news reports contradicted the claim and Rosenstein himself denied it.

The report was a trap to push Trump towards an impulsive firing of the number two in the Justice Department, a repeat of Nixon's Saturday Night Massacre. The Democrats would have profited from such an 'October surprise' in the November 6 midterm elections. A campaign to exploit such a scandal to get-out-the-votes was already well prepared.

The trap did not work. The only one who panicked was Rosenstein. He feared for his reputation should he get fired. To prevent such damage he offered to resign amicably. He tried this at least three times:

By Friday evening, concerned about testifying to Congress over the revelations that he discussed wearing a wire to the Oval Office and invoking the constitutional trigger to remove Mr. Trump from office, Mr. Rosenstein had become convinced that he should resign, according to people close to him. He offered during a late-day visit to the White House to quit, according to one person familiar with the encounter, but John F. Kelly, the White House chief of staff, demurred.
...
Also over the weekend, Mr. Rosenstein again told Mr. Kelly that he was considering resigning. On Sunday, Mr. Rosenstein repeated the assertion in a call with Donald F. McGahn II, the White House counsel. Mr. McGahn — [...] — asked Mr. Rosenstein to postpone their discussion until Monday.
...
By about 9 a.m. Monday, Mr. Rosenstein was in his office on the fourth floor of the Justice Department when reporters started calling. Was it true that Mr. Rosenstein was planning to resign, they asked.
...
At the White House the deputy attorney general slipped into a side entrance to the West Wing and headed to the White House counsel’s office to meet with Mr. McGahn, who had by then been told by Mr. Kelly that Mr. Rosenstein was on his way and wanted to resign.

McGhan punted the issue back to Kelly and finally Rosenstein spoke with Trump. Trump did not fire him nor did he resign. It is now expected that he will stay until the end of the year or even longer:

President Trump told advisers he is open to keeping Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein on the job, and allies of the No. 2 Justice Department official said Tuesday he has given them the impression he doesn’t plan to quit.

The trap did not work. Neither did Trump panic nor did the White House allow the panicking Rod Rosenstein to pull the trigger. The people who set this up, by leaking some dubious FBI memo to the NYT, did not achieve their aims.

There are only six weeks left until the midterm elections. What other October surprises might be planned by either side?

Posted by b on September 26, 2018 at 11:20 AM | Permalink

Comments

thanks b.. good question.. i am sure the neo-con, msm gang, can cook up something...

Posted by: james | Sep 26, 2018 11:37:23 AM | 1

The Rosenstein 25th Amendment story fizzled quickly didn't it? That's thanks to Kavanaugh and #MeToo butting heads. Whatever the outcome on the Kavanaugh confirmation vote I see a Blue Wave coming in November. The Dems, if they take the Senate, will be under enormous pressure from their base to pursue impeachment. But Trump will have launched his war against Iran by the time the next Congress is sworn in.

Posted by: Mike Maloney | Sep 26, 2018 11:38:35 AM | 2


"What other October surprises might be planned by either side?"

"November 6 midterm elections" - 11/6

116
upside down is
911

Someone (CIA inspired) will claim to have definitive evidence in Russiagate.
It will come with too little time remaining before the election to mount a proper
refutation.
I would put my money on the NYT to break this "new evidence".

Posted by: librul | Sep 26, 2018 11:45:33 AM | 3

This account gives an interesting twist, that Trump wants to keep Rosenstein as leverage.

Posted by: BM | Sep 26, 2018 12:02:51 PM | 4

Oh! Something went wrong with that link, it should be:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/09/26/rosenstein-vs-mccabe/

Posted by: BM | Sep 26, 2018 12:04:25 PM | 5

I think it is not in the interest of Trump to do anything that could look like hampering the Mueller investigation. It might be in his interest to try to force Mueller to show what he has bevore the midterm elections, but that could also be seen as a form of hampering.

I think there are already lots of indications that the whole Russiagate collusion story was fabricated. The messages between Peter Strzok und Lisa Page point towards this direction, and it seems that different stories that were used for Russiagate were connected.

It seems that the Steele dossier played a crucial role for getting warrants for spying on the Trump campaign and for starting the media campaign about Trump-Russia "collusion". Obviously, the Steele dossier is a rather implausible conspiracy theory (allegedly, Russia made preparations for Trump's candidacy years earlier when hardly anyone thought Trump would have the slightest chance of being nominated by a major party), contains no evidence for the allegations, and the elements that can be verified are either banal and don't show collusion or they are false (e.g. Trump's lawyer going to Prague, it seems he has an alibi, and there are leaks that there was another person named Michael Cohen, without a connection to Trump, who flew to Prague, so Steele probably had access to flight data, but did not do further verifications).

A further strand of "Russiagate" is the story around Papadopoulos. First, it should be noted that it hardly shows foreknowledge of the DNC leaks when someone may have speculated that Russia may have e-mails from Hillary Clinton - at that time, the deleted mails from Clinton's private server were talked about a lot, and one of the concerns that was often mentioned was that Clinton's private server may have been hacked by Russia or China. None of the versions of what Papadopoulos was allegedly told by Mifsud and told Downer specifically mention DNC or Podesta e-mails. Second, the people involved had close connections to Western intelligence services. Mifsud had close ties with important EU institutions and was connected with educational institutions used by Western intelligence agencies (mainly Italian, British, FBI). If he really was a Russian spy, there would have been larger consequences, and the FBI would hardly have let him go after questioning him. According to a book by Roh and Pastor who have known Mifsud for a long time, he denies having told Papadopoulos anything about damaging material about Hillary Clinton (Mifsud also said that in an interview), and Mifsud suspects Papadopoulos of being a provocateur of Western intelligence services - Papadopoulos forcefully tried to create connections between the Trump campaign and Russians, but both sides were not willing to go along (a representative of a Russian think tank which Papadopoulos asked to invite Trump answered that the Trump campaign should send an official request, which never followed). Papadopoulos was in (probably frequent) contact with FBI informer Stefan Halper, and it may be that Papadopoulos was an unwitting provocateur because of events Stefan Halper arranged. The Australian diplomat Downer has connections to the Clinton foundation (he helped arranging large payments by Australia) and Western secret services. Third, what has exactly been said by whom is disputed. As mentioned, Mifsud denies mentioning anything about damaging material on Hillary Clinton to Papadopoulos (the only one who claims this is Papadopoulos), and Papadopoulos denies mentioning e-mails to Downer. It seems, Papadopoulos were only half-willing participants in the setup arranged by Stefan Halper whose goal was to have some background for the message that could be received from Downer. Papadopoulos' wife has shared a picture of Stefan Halper and Downer together, which also fits the idea that this story was set up by FBI informant Halper with Downer.

The visit of the Russian lawyer Veselnitskaya was arranged by Fusion GPS, and she met with him before and after the meeting she met with Glen Simpson.

Of course, we are just in the beginning, there is certainly enough concrete material for starting an investigation (unlike with the alleged Trump-Russia collusion), but many details are still open. Those who presumably set up the collusion story went from offensive to defensive, even if that might not be clear if someone reads particularly biased media. Now, the time until the midterms certainly is not enough for conducting and concluding such an investigation. But it should be enough for unclassifying and publishing some documents that shed further light on these events.

The time for more decisive action against those who set up Russiagate may be after the midterm elections, and how easy that will be probably partly depends on the election result. Therefore, I suppose that Trump and other Republicans will strongly press for important documents being unclassified and published before the elections.

Posted by: Adrian E. | Sep 26, 2018 12:22:47 PM | 6

What other October surprises might be planned by either side

dunno b, inadequacy of communication is but one of the characteristics of theatre of the absurd...

but man, i sure wish they'd come up with a better stage director!

Posted by: john | Sep 26, 2018 12:25:51 PM | 7

Trump admin and GOP Congress are doing almost everything possible to alienate the majority of the public on a wide spectrum of issues that's also helped threaten the positions of Republicans masquerading as Democrats. The fallout from the 2016 Primary and subsequent disclosures about Clinton and DNC corruption and law breaking--meddling in elections and caucuses--has emboldened numerous people--particularly women--who were previously politically apathetic, not just to run for office, but also to work to get like-minded candidates elected. Sanders called for an insurrection--and yes, he's still sheep dogging--and it's emerged and isn't totally controlled by the DemParty despite its efforts: The cat's out of the bag.

Now I expect the usual attacks using the trite adage that voting doesn't matter. Well, guess what, Trump's election proves that adage to be 100% false. There's only one path to making America Great and that's by getting the neoliberals and neocons out of government; and the only way to do that is to run candidates with opposing positions and elect them--then--once in office, they need to oust the vermin from the bureaucracy--Drain the Swamp, as Trump put it. I know it can be done as it's been done before during two different epochs of US History. And the System was just as rigged against popular success than as it is now.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 12:42:35 PM | 8

Wow karlof1 that is an incredibly optimistic viewpoint, I don't share it but I'm still impressed.

As for me I doubt the US exists in 2020. Maybe physically, certainly not politically. Maybe I'm incredibly optimistic too :D

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 26, 2018 12:52:58 PM | 9

Sunny Runny Burger @9--

Where do you live? I reside in Oregon, where engaged voters and their votes have proven to make a difference. To my South in my former state of residence, Californians are mobilized, particularly the "hyphenized" communities of minorities who now collectively outweigh white Anglos in population.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 1:00:23 PM | 10

THE BBC is heavily pushing Bellingcats Skripal nonsense on the 6PM main news, BBC story

To me the ears look very different in the 2 pictures presented.

Posted by: TJ | Sep 26, 2018 1:25:05 PM | 11

@11 Replying to myself

Using an online aging software turned up to max on the alleged 2003 passport photo and I get this. The ears look definately wrong to me.

Posted by: TJ | Sep 26, 2018 1:43:26 PM | 12

Karlof1 I agree w you 100%. Voters can make a difference and change is still possible however unlikely and rare. The problem is voter complacency which is fed by cynicism. Ironically younger liberal voters tend to be the most complacent especially at the midterm elections. This year complacency doesnt appear to be an issue so we will probably see a Dem House in January if not also a Dem Senate.


My take on Rosenstein is he went to the WH to force Trump to accept his resignation or fire him or keep him and thus shut him up either way because even as large a fool as Trump can't be so stupid as to fire RR before the midterms. A trap laid by the Deputy AG not the media imho to also take heat off Mueller.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 26, 2018 1:44:18 PM | 13

@11
The shape of his head appears different also.

Posted by: Ike | Sep 26, 2018 1:51:44 PM | 14

Us democracy is like a Marvel comic book: unbelievable.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Sep 26, 2018 2:03:03 PM | 15

Bellingcat is MI6, so what do you expect.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Sep 26, 2018 2:07:56 PM | 16

Bellingcat is MI6, so what do you expect.

Posted by: Den Lille Abe | Sep 26, 2018 2:07:56 PM | 16

Posted by: Greece | Sep 26, 2018 2:18:46 PM | 17

According to Microsofts State Of The Art face recogniser for the 2003 alleged passport photo vs the photo of Boshirov-

Verification result: The two faces belong to different people. Confidence is 0.44705.

Using the aged photo I produced-

Verification result: The two faces belong to different people. Confidence is 0.33398.

Posted by: TJ | Sep 26, 2018 2:22:09 PM | 18

Trump could shock the world by being on his best behavior for a few weeks. (j/k don't hold your breath).

Just a little review:

In November, Dems are expected to take the House of Representatives by a modest margin. The House, not the Senate determines impeachment. Impeachment is like an indictment -- the Senate would then have a "trial" of sorts, and then to convict, you need 2/3 majority of Senators. Nobody expects that.

Nixon actually resigned out of shame after being impeached. Clinton didn't. Trump gives zero f**ks so this outcome isn't even worth discussing.

The Senate is more important. It is just barely within reach for Democrats if everything goes in their favor. If they win every single seat that is competitive, Democrats get 51/100 seats, plus 2 independents who side with them, but minus a couple of Democrats-in-name-only who regularly vote with Republicans (West Virginia's Manchin for example). Recall that the Vice President (Pence) is the tie-breaking vote in the Senate.

More realistically, in a still optimistic scenario, Democrats will lose one or more of the competitive races, and end up with 49-50 votes in the Senate. (they are expected to win big in 2 years in 2020, due to many more Republicans facing re-election then).

Posted by: uuu | Sep 26, 2018 2:39:10 PM | 19

uuu @19--

The House organizes an investigation to arrive at a list known as Articles of Impeachment and votes to send them to Senate for Trial. Nixon was never Impeached. I think you meant to write that, but you didn't proofread.

Actually, the hypothetical outcome with Pence becoming POTUS is worth exploring for the wrongness of attempting to Impeach Trump as Pence is far more dangerous--although he keeps his mouth closed, Pence is very much like Bolton, and most agree Bolton as POTUS would be a disaster.

Some have mentioned that Trump's actually working to undermine the efficacy of the Outlaw US Empire. IMO, that would make an interesting thread topic. However, IMO, the Democrats, particularly Obama, Powers, Clinton, and Kerry did much prior to Trump to erode the Empire's Soft Power and empower the world's nations to begin resisting. The combination of BigLie Media and 100% unsubstantiated allegations powering Russiagate/Skripal has disgusted many and made the opportunities offered by China and Russia more attractive thanks to putting the arrogance of the Outlaw US Empire on full display--something BigLie Media cannot censor or spin to make disappear.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 3:15:48 PM | 20

Only someone morbidly partisan within the Corporate One-Party would bother seeking the impeachment of a fungible geek like a US president. Indeed, those fixated on impeachment evidently have no rationale beyond Trump Derangement Syndrome. To replace Trump with Pence would be no improvement and most likely would make things worse. Trump and Pence share the corporate globalization ideology and goals, but Trump’s more chaotic execution is more likely to lead to chaotic, perhaps system-destructive effects more quickly than a more disciplined execution. The same is true of any Democrat we could envision replacing Trump in 2020.

That’s why it was a good thing that Trump won in 2016: He’s more likely to bring about a faster collapse of the US empire and of the globalization system in general. Not because these are his goals, but because his indiscipline adds a much-needed wild card to the deck.

Needless to say, humanity and the Earth have nothing to lose, as we’re slowly but surely being exterminated once and for all regardless.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 26, 2018 3:26:10 PM | 21

Yes, it's OT, yet it's germane just the same.

For those barflies not following what's happening politically in UK, you should know that Corbyn's Labour Party's aggressively on the move to end neoliberalism within UK. The best place to follow this show, IMO, is through Corbyn's Twitter, which currently has several short video ads at its top that I find compelling and powerful--the sort of ad campaigns that USA's Democrat Party would have run in the 1930s but won't today since it's 100% captured by neoliberal twats who'd rather help corporations than people. Indeed, if Trump's MAGA had produced its own version of My Town, he would have won even more handily (But he'd never be able to get Congress to pass any of his program since it's not Neoliberal--both Ds and Rs would vote it down).

IMO, once Labour regains control of UK government, much will also change within EU, and within the overall global order. Imagine an EU and UK having good relations with Russia and the changes that would generate.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 3:55:10 PM | 22


The author of this piece, David Frum–

Rod Rosenstein’s Departure is a National Emergency

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/rosensteins-departure-is-a-national-emergency/571132/

Is a lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangster and NeoCon Israel firster who is closely aligned with this guy–

Eliot Cohen, also a lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangster and NeoCon Israel firster, who is aligned with this guy–

Bill Kristol, also a lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangster and NeoCon Israel firster who is aligned with this guy–

Paul Wolfowitz, a lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangster and NeoCon Israel firster, who is aligned with this guy–

Robert Kagan, a lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangster and NeoCon Israel firster, 

As well as his portly brother, who are both aligned with this guy–

Max Boot, a lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangster and NeoCon Israel firster who is aligned with this gal, Jennifer Rubin

A lying, warmongering, Jewish supremacist gangstress and NeoCon Israel firster, and who is aligned with this guy–

Charles Krauthammer….That is, before he recently died and went to hell…

And who are all deeply, DEEPLY plugged into Israel’s Likud party, Israel’s intelligence apparatus and who were all in some way intimately involved not only with the events of 9/11, but as well, the disastrous ‘clash of civilizations’ that followed, better known as the ‘war on terror’.


In addition to this, they are all deeply, DEEPLY committed to seeing Trump impeached, and for the singular reason that he stands opposed to any new military adventures for Israel’s benefit and is dedicated to reigning in this Judaic mad dog before it blows up the entire world.

Also keep in mind, that an entire gaggle of geniuses, experts, and prophets, some of the ‘brightest luminaries’ in fact within the ‘9/11 truth movement’, find themselves in the peculiar and perplexing circumstance of standing alongside these aforementioned warmongering, Neocon Zionist Jews by lending their voices and their support in causing Trump as much discomfort as possible, thus assisting Israel in her drive to see this guy–

Mike Pence, a died-in-the-wool Christian Zionist, take over as the new occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Posted by: anon | Sep 26, 2018 4:00:06 PM | 23

Karlof1 I could be wrong of course but one example of why none of that would matter is when the US dollar for all practical purposes winks out of existence and that could happen right now as we speak. Why would that happen you may ask? It would happen whenever someone "beyond personal wealth" like the usual finance suspects decides it is the way for them to make enormous amounts of profit out of the resulting worldwide instability before any of their competitors beat them to it. The longer they wait the more likely someone else will jump the gun and surprise them.

I don't think the US has two years worth of "blood" left in it before that happens.

In a sense nothing will be left when each and every dollar becomes at least 20 trillion times less valuable. If the response to that happening is the same as the early 20ieth century response (Germany) then nothing will be left at all considering the difference in technology and differences in circumstance (everybody already have the weapons ready). If the response is the late 20ieth century response (USSR) then maybe something will be left but the USSR was both lucky and relatively solvent in comparison to the current US. The starting point for the US is several magnitudes worse in both examples. The world can't afford to carry the US at cost any more than the US can't right now and like the US haven't been able to for decades, the required wealth doesn't exist.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 26, 2018 4:06:24 PM | 24

@karlof1 / 20

Thanks for the correction, I didn't know that detail (Nixon resigning before the House completed the legislative proceedings, which it began).

I agree on Pence, I find him far more threatening.

Posted by: uuu | Sep 26, 2018 4:24:12 PM | 25

I assume the Awan brothers and their scandalous spying on the US congress through all those democrats has been bipartisanly removed from public eye. If Trump has the cards to play to keep his team in majority NOW is the time to play them.

This is the biggest scandal since Hillary and her crappy email server.

The USA is a dopes circus.

Posted by: uncle tungsten | Sep 26, 2018 4:47:44 PM | 26

it is obvious that Trump is not in charge. Or he is as stupid as the Dems would like to think he is. It would be obvious to most politicians that Sessions was a terrible choice as attorney General. Just like Agnew was deposed as VP before Nixon was deposed as President, Rosenstein would have to go before Sessions would be replaced. It would take quite a while to get the new AG confirmed. Rosenstein would then be acting AG. It does seem to me that Rosenstein is an agent of those opposed to Trump or is another part of the Jewish control apparatus in the US. He is the one who appointed Mueller as the Special Prosecutor. Mueller is definitely a minion of the "Deep State". It seems obvious to me that Trump had real estate dealings with the Russian Mafia. This will never be investigated. These would mostly be about money. So this would be the Jewish Russian Mafia contingent. There is Israeli collusion in meddling with American election outcomes. Somehow this will never be investigated.

Posted by: gepay | Sep 26, 2018 4:59:59 PM | 27

Sunny Runny Burger @24--

The nascent USA had its national capital sacked and presidential residence burnt during what's known as the War of 1812, yet it continued to exist politically. Same during Civil War. During the Revolutionary War, the USA had a national government and 13 separate state governments, all of which continued to function as the war raged. There've been at least two Coups--1963 and 2000--but the USA continued its political existence. Even the Germany destroyed by WW2 still existed politically. Destroying political entities is very--extremely--difficult, which is why it seldom occurs. Rome's central authority ceased in the mid 6th century but its provinces continued as did the Eastern portion of the Roman Empire. Russia's governmental system was drastically altered during and after Russia's Civil War, but Russia continued to exists as a political entity. The USSR was an imperial governing edifice built atop numerous national political entities. It did vanish, but the nations comprising it didn't; indeed, new nations were born as a result.

As for the dollar and its international position, even those nations desirous of undoing dollar hegemony have said it cannot be done overnight as the overall system is both too complex and too fragile for hasty adjustments to be made stably. Moreover, for better or worse, the Outlaw US Empire's an integral component of the global economy, which motivates those changing the system to arrive at a Soft Landing, not a Hard Crash.

Catastrophism belongs in the realm of Geology, not Geopolitics, although the former will certainly affect the latter. Geopolitics can certainly enable an ecological crisis such as the Overshoot we're now entering, but that's several magnitudes less than what rates as a geological catastrophe--and not all such catastrophes are global.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 5:13:27 PM | 28

Most would agree Trump embodies Neoliberalism. Most would also agree he appears to be failing in numerous areas. But arguably Neoliberalism was already in decline when Clinton was defeated and Brexit passed, and one of the things we see from May and Trump are attempts to keep that ideology in power. Jonathan Cook has something to say about that. I'd provide an excerpt, but it's painfully hard to choose one. There! Decided on the following somewhat long segment:

"Despite its best efforts, neoliberalism is increasingly discredited in the eyes of large sections of the electorate in the US and UK. Its attempts at concealment have grown jaded, its strategy exhausted. It has reached the end-game, and that is why politics now looks so unstable. “Insurgency” candidates in different guises are prospering.

"Neoliberal power is distinctive because it seeks absolute power, and can achieve that end only through global domination. Globalisation, the world as a plaything for a tiny elite to asset-strip, is both its means and its end. Insurgents are therefore those who seek to reverse the trend towards globalisation – or at least claim to. There are insurgents on both the left and right.

"If neoliberalism has to choose, it typically prefers an insurgent on the right to the left. A Trump figure can usefully serve power too, because he dons the clothes of an insurgent while doing little to actually change the structure.

"Nonetheless, Trump is a potential problem for the neoliberal order for two reasons.

"First, unlike an Obama or a Clinton, he too clearly illuminates what is really at stake for power – wealth maximisation at any cost – and thereby risks unmasking the deception. And second, he is a retrograde step for the globalising power-structure."

I find it good to evaluate Sanders and other supposed "insurgents" using Cook's formula. Sanders can be judged by his total submission to the Democrat Party and Clinton despite his outward projection as an "insurgent." IMO, he's as bad as Slick Willie himself and is not to be trusted.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 6:25:33 PM | 29

@8 "The fallout from the 2016 Primary and subsequent disclosures about Clinton and DNC corruption and law breaking--meddling in elections and caucuses--has emboldened numerous people--particularly women--who were previously politically apathetic, not just to run for office, but also to work to get like-minded candidates elected."

I'm hearing a lot about these motivated women. Can we assume they are predominantly 'progressive'? My sense is that as long as Trump stays white, male and heterosexual he will get re-elected.

Posted by: dh | Sep 26, 2018 7:58:47 PM | 30

FYI--

Apparently, links to CounterPunch are blocked as I tried to post two related essays by Jonathon Cook that were published there: Hiding in Plain Sight: Why We Cannot See the System Destroying Us and Time to Wake Up: the Neoliberal Order is Dying. Ah Ha! I found them at different sites. Number 1, and Number 2, which is very relevant to the Trump discussion.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 7:58:55 PM | 31

Couple of snips from Cooks piece linked above

Power’s goal is to keep looking like it has become something new, something innovative. Because the power-structure does not want change, it has to find front-men and women who can personify a transformation that is, in truth, entirely hollow....

.....neoliberalism is increasingly discredited in the eyes of large sections of the electorate in the US and UK. Its attempts at concealment have grown jaded, its strategy exhausted. It has reached the end-game, and that is why politics now looks so unstable. “Insurgency” candidates in different guises are prospering.---

....Insurgents are therefore those who seek to reverse the trend towards globalisation – or at least claim to....

...A Trump figure can usefully serve power too, because he dons the clothes of an insurgent while doing little to actually change the structure...

Posted by: Pft | Sep 26, 2018 8:14:05 PM | 32

Looks like one of the Russian 'tourists' has been caught, or not?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45656004

Posted by: ninel | Sep 26, 2018 8:18:06 PM | 33

Hey karlof1, thanks for the link to the Jonathan Cook blog. I like his ability to make clear the logic behind familiar details.

These minor narratives conceal the fact that such individuals are groomed before they ever gain access to power. Business leaders, senior politicians and agenda-setting journalists reach their positions after proving themselves over and over again – not consciously but through their unthinking compliance to the power-structure of our societies. They are selected through their performances in exams at school and university, through training programmes and indentures. They rise to the top because they are the most talented examples of those who are blind or submissive to power, those who can think most cleverly without thinking critically. Those who reliably deploy their skills where they are directed to do so.

Posted by: jonku | Sep 26, 2018 8:45:39 PM | 34

@6 adrian e.. thanks for your informed post...

Posted by: james | Sep 26, 2018 9:55:06 PM | 35

In my own words then. According to Cook the power elites goal is to change its appearance to look like something new and innovative to stay ahead of an electorate who are increasingly skeptical of the neoliberalism and globalism that enrich the elite at their expense.

Since they do not actually want change they find actors who pretend to represent change , which is in essence fake change. These then are their insurgent candidates

Trump serves the power elite , because while he appears as an insurgent against the power elite he does little to change anything

Trump promotes his fake insurgency on Twitter stage knowing the power elite will counter any of his promises that might threaten them

As an insurgent candidate Trump was indifferent to Israel and wanted the US out of Syria. He wanted good relations with Russia. He wanted to fix the health care system, rebuild infrastructure, scrap NAFTA and TTIPS, bring back good paying jobs, fight the establishment and Wall Street executives and drain the swamp. America First he said.

Trump the insurgent president , has become Israel’s biggest cheerleader and has launched US missiles at Syria, relations with Russia are at Cold War lows, infrastructure is still failing, the percentage of people working is now at an all time low in the post housewife era, he has passed tax cuts for the rich that will endanger medicare, medicaid and social security and prohibit infrastructure spending, relaxed regulations on Wall Street, enhanced NAFTA to include TTIPS provisions and make US automobiles more expensive, and the swamp has been refilled with the rich, neocons , Koch associates, and Goldman Sachs that make up the power elites and Deep State . Americas rich and Israel First

Posted by: Pft | Sep 26, 2018 9:58:02 PM | 36

@34 pft... regarding the 2 cook articles.. i found they overly wordy myself... however, for anyone paying attention - corbyn seems like the person to vote for given how relentless he is being attacked in the media... i am not so sure about trump, but felt cook summed it up well with these 2 lines.. "Trump the candidate was indifferent to Israel and wanted the US out of Syria. Trump the president has become Israel’s biggest cheerleader and has launched US missiles at Syria." i get the impression corbyn is legit which is why the anti-semitism keeps on being mentioned... craig murrary is a good source for staying on top of uk dynamics..

Posted by: james | Sep 26, 2018 10:19:13 PM | 37

For Trump to be "insurgent" he should

(a) talk coherently
(b) have some kind of movement consisting of people that agree with what is says -- that necessitates (a)

Then he could staff his Administration with his supporters rather than a gamut of conventional plutocrats, neocons, and hacks from the Deep State (intelligence, FBI and crazies culled from Pentagon). As it is easy to see, I am describing an alternate reality. Who is a Trumpian member of the Administration? His son-in-law?

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 26, 2018 10:23:41 PM | 38

@ninel | Sep 26, 2018 8:18:06 PM | 31

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/the-incredible-case-of-boshirov-and-petrovs-visas/


Posted by: librul | Sep 26, 2018 10:39:37 PM | 39

@31 Well, the BBC is relying on an "investigation" by Bellingcat so, no, there is very unlikely to be any truth behind the "outing".

To be honest, Bellingcat shows three photos. The two on the right look to me to be of the same man. The photo on the left doesn't.
Similar, sure. But I don't think it is the same person.

So which photo is the "gotcha!" photo as far as Bellingcat is concerned?
The photo on the left.

Simple rule-of-thumb - if Eliot Higgins says *this*, then it is a lie.


Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 26, 2018 11:05:26 PM | 40

Pft @34--

Yes. just like Obama before him--another snake in the swamp!

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 11:42:43 PM | 41

Hay! Khaver! !חבֿר הײַ!


Greetings from Tel Aviv, my Hebrew friends!

Although I’m writing this from Miami, where I’m on vacation.

This fine Jewish blog (Moon of Alabama) has many admirers in Israel.

While we don’t agree with your views on Israeli politics, this is a minor, trivial detail compared with the obvious love for Judaism and support for The Israel Project that shines through on almost every comment posted at M of A

With one exception!

the comment Posted by: anon | Sep 26, 2018 4:00:06 PM | 23, which talks about “Jewish supremacist gangsters and Neocon Israel firsters” and seems to imply that these “neocons” have some sort of control over the politics in Washington DC

Bullshit! What non-sense!

That kind of talk doesn’t belong on this fine Hebrew blog, so I’m asking for this one comment to be removed

other than that, excellent, perfectly fine and acceptable comments by all!

…..Keep up the good work!

A dank! / A sheynem dank!

Posted by: dov | Sep 27, 2018 12:08:09 AM | 42

Karlof1@39

The swamps been filled with all kinds of vile creatures since the Carter administration. This is when the US/UK went full steam ahead with neoliberal globalism with Israel directing the war on terror for the Trilateral Empire (following Bibis Jerusalem conference so as to fulfill the Yinon plan). 40 years of terror and financial mayhem following the coup that took place from 1963-1974. After Nixons ouster they were ready to go once TLC Carter/Zbig kicked off the Trilateral era. Reagan then ran promising to oust the TLC swamp but broke his promise, as every President has done since .

Posted by: Pft | Sep 27, 2018 12:53:59 AM | 43

First of all, it's a little premature to headline that Rosenstein was neither fired nor resigned since Trump will meet with him on Friday and Trump is a loose canon and would love any excuse to remove the thorn from his side. However, because Trump's Oracle Sean Hannity warned him not to do it; he might not; BUT he might give R a reason to resign, because, that's the least risky and very favorable option for him. McGahn and Kelly have no interest in seeing Rosenstein gone, period, ergo, they held R in place.

Now if this was a set up, it sure pissed off Democrats; you have only to go to their hangouts to see how pissed they were with the Times and whoever leaked that news.

Either it was a colossal impulsive blunder by the Times to monopolize the news cycle for the week or it was meant to abort Mueller's investigation. The risk to the investigation was too great without a fail-proof outcome for this to have been a deliberate set up from the Democratic side and their angst and outrage over the leak that would end the investigation proves this point.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 27, 2018 1:01:24 AM | 44

@23

You forgot to add Jared Kushner to your supremacist list.

Saint Trump belongs at the top of your Zionist list since he's in the process of extorting a deal from the Palestinians that robs them blind of most of their land not to mention erasing millions of displaced refugees. But hey, you go on believing he's not one of them Zionist fascists and keep denying reality.

@40

Lol! Not surprised to learn this fine Jewish blog has so many admirers in Israel since quite a few Zionists hang out here.

Do me a favor, tell you comrades to stop influencing American foreign policy. Your Arab solution is to incite wars to get rid of as many of them surrounding you as you can and those who survive are fleeing the mass destruction around them and flooding into Europe and Canada collapsing the social system. REALLY UNFAIR, but then that's the plan, isn't it? To scroo everyone else except yourselves and then you wonder and whine why you're so unpopular.

Miami? So that's where you go when you get tired of your Apartheid state.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 27, 2018 1:55:22 AM | 45

@40 I just figured out why Trump can do no wrong around here--he's a Zionist! It's really not because he pretends to make nice with Russia. Trump can eat kittens and lock up kids and he still won't be condemned here. I finally get it, he's a Zionist that's why and Zionists everywhere love him, here too, as much as in Israel. Blech.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 27, 2018 2:10:36 AM | 46

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 26, 2018 5:13:27 PM | 28

Moreover, for better or worse, the Outlaw US Empire's an integral component of the global economy, which motivates those changing the system to arrive at a Soft Landing, not a Hard Crash.

Yes - they don't really want to change anything about the destructive globalization economy, just diminish US domination of it.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 27, 2018 2:22:39 AM | 47

I flicked on the beeb news channel as I dragged meself outta the pit this am and caught the 'news' of the bellingcat claim that Ruslan Boshirov = Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga.

Now I'm fully cognisant of the fact that neither Russia nor Chepiga should feel obliged to prove this claim is untrue, but since whichever way you slice it Chepiga is now 'blown', They (Russia/Chepiga) may as well prove the claim is nonsense. The thing being that the boof heads at MI6/CIA would also have worked that out, unless it was a particularly boofed, boofhead who put this latest snippet together.

IMO in all likelihood Ruslan Boshirov = Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga is correct. Towards the end of one of the supporting articles that sets out the 'proof' Bellingcat mutters something rather odd which seems like it actually detracts from the story - if the ultimate target of this revelation is Colonel Chepiga.
But who really cares about some obscure military intelligence mid-level bloke? (Colonel is nowhere near the giddy heights of any military, something I discovered when working in the Oz public service & I was seconded to the department of defence to do a job. Since I was working with a bunch of uniformed saluters, it was claimed they would not "feel comfortable working with someone of unknown status in the hierarchy". So I was told that my position in the Public Service equated with the rank of colonel in the army. I can tell you, if it weren't totally apparent, that I was just an average sh1tkicker)
No one cares about Chepiga, this entire saga is about getting the masses to accept without any deep consideration, that "Putin" the figurehead who (according to western media) micromanages everything evil about russia, only cares about destroying the life of Jo/Joe Sh1tkicker where ever in the world Jo/Joe may be.
So the last two paras of the burble runs thusly:

Bellingcat has contacted confidentially a former Russian military officer of similar rank as Colonel Chepiga, in order to receive a reaction to what we found. The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, expressed surprise that at least one of the operatives engaged in the operation in Salisbury had the rank of colonel. Even more surprising was the suspects’ prior award of the highest military recognition.

In our source’s words, an operation of this sort would have typically required a lower-ranked, “field operative” with a military rank of “no higher than captain.” The source further surmised that to send a highly decorated colonel back to a field job would be highly extraordinary, and would imply that “the job was ordered at the highest level.”


The logical flaw is obvious of course. If 'the job' had been ordered at the highest level surely sending some bloke who had been riding a desk for the last six years is not how it would handled, the most recently capable operative would be sent - either a relatively junior officer or a young but experienced NCO.

However assuming Boshirov = Colonel Chepiga is correct, while he would never be sent to supervise a hit on the ground much less carry it out; it doesn't take a great stretch to ruminate on the possible tasks a military intelligence colonel would be sent to england for.
There is one obvious task which would explain most credibly what he was in Salisbury for - to give Sergey Skripal confidence that his repatriation was a genuine offer, not some half arsed wish fulfillment plan dreamed up by Yulia and a low level intelligence operator eager to climb into Yulia's pants.
Two colonels of the GRU, one a highly decorated hero and the other a dodgy turncoat who had come to realise after the nonsense his immediate MI6 superior Pablo Miller, plus his big boss "Mr Steele" had put out about Moscow golden showers, whilst insinuating he, Skirpal was party to the fiction, that rapprochment between Russia and angland/amerika was never gonna happen. He was never going to be able to know any of his grandchildren or see his motherland again because usuk needed 'evil Russia' to distract their citizens away from the real evildoing 'at home'.
Someone used a chess mataphor elsewhere in a thread, well I would say that if the Bellingcat revelation that Ruslan Boshirov = Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga. if true sails close to a checkmate.
If Russia confesses that Ruslan Boshirov does = Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga, citizens in the west would be denied any explanation as the fishwraps and talking heads would be too busy celebrating Russia's alleged 'defeat' to include any other portion of what Russia had said, especially not an exposition which dealt with everything from the fact that Chepiga & co arrived too late on Sunday for their poisoned doorknob to have tainted the Skirpals who had left the house for the last time hours before and that of all the english towns some idjit chose to squirt this muck around Salisbury was the one where assassination by chemical weapon was the town the least likely to give success since the proximity of Porton Downs guaranteed that some not all staff at Salisbury Hospital would have been trained in chem weapon detection and antidote.

On the other side of the coin - panic stations at MI6, on a quiet Sunday it has just been uncovered that an asset was 'going over'. So some duty officer sent the thug on call for the day over to Porton Downs to grab 'a little something' guaranteed to prevent any such nonsense.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 27, 2018 2:30:46 AM | 48

Which is the cohort of voters who allegedly are leaning toward voting Republican in the mid-terms but who allegedly would refrain if Trump accepted Rosenstein's resignation? And which is the cohort not already motivated to turn out to vote Democrat but who allegedly would be motivated by a Rosenstein resignation? Is there real data on these?

I think if I had been a 2016 Trump voter I'd be feeling pretty disappointed about how he's unable to enforce the most basic discipline and loyalty even among his closest administration members, and this Rosenstein episode would be yet another egregious example.

If the Republicans do lose either/both houses, the main reason will be that for once they've taken on the normal Democrat role of being confused and feckless about what they want to do (they can't bring themselves to whole-heartedly get behind Trump; but a major Republican strength has been how they normally do pull together an present a united front). And Trump himself, in his inability to control his own immediate administration, also gives an example of this fecklessness.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 27, 2018 2:32:41 AM | 49

What other October surprises might be planned by either side?

This gave me chills.

Posted by: AG17 | Sep 27, 2018 2:44:29 AM | 50

@ Circe who is writing that any who like any of what Trump is doing must be Zionists.

Get a grip. I didn't vote for Trump but favored him over Clinton II, the war criminal.

Trump represents more clearly the face of the ugly beast of debauched patriarchy, lying, misogyny, bullying and monotheistic "everybody else is goyim" values. Trump very clearly represents the folks behind the curtain of the Western private finance led "culture". He and they are both poor representations of our species who are in power because of heredity and controlled ignorance over the private finance jackboot on the lifeblood of the species.

Luckily there are still groups of our species that don't live totally controlled by the Western way and the cancer it represents to humanity. They on the outside and "us" on the inside are trying our hardest to shine lights on all the moving parts in hopes that humanity can throw off the shackles of ignorance about private/public finance.

I am taking a beginning astronomy class and just learned that it took the monotheistic religions 600 years to accept the science of Galileo Galilei. We could stand to evolve a bit faster as we are about to have our proverbial asses handed to us in the form of extinction, IMO.

Posted by: psychohistorian | Sep 27, 2018 2:58:27 AM | 51

@31 ninel
@37 librul
@38 Yeah, Right
@46 Debsisdead

See my posts 11 and 12, according to Microsofts Facial Recognition software they are not the same person, even when artificially aging the 2003 photo.

Posted by: TJ | Sep 27, 2018 4:20:14 AM | 52

@50 myself

Forgot post 18 as well.

Posted by: TJ | Sep 27, 2018 4:21:34 AM | 53

Number 6 Adriane
Good post. The meeting between Downer and Papadopoulos I think was arrange by Downer? This meeting combined with the Steele/Skripal/Miller dossier, is used for a FISA warrant.

Posted by: Col from OZ | Sep 27, 2018 5:05:18 AM | 54

@50 Am I the only person on Planet Earth who takes the time to follow the links that Bellingcat puts in their articles?

The link to www.dvocu.ru is especially laughable.

The google translate is this:
"Chepiga Anatoly Vladimirovich
Decree of the President of the Russian Federation marked the honorary title of Hero of the Russian Federation."

I had to admit that the words W.T.F. slipped through my lips several times.

W.T.F. is an "honorary title" when discussing "Hero of the Russian Federation"?
Has any Brit ever been awarded an "honorary Victoria Cross"?
How many Americans can boast an "honorary Medal of Honour"?

W.T.F. is this lack of a bio?
Every other recipient has a short bio describing the events.
The last two - and only the last two - on the list don't.

Higgins claims this is because those two dudes got their Honorary Gong for clandestine work, but that makes no sense whatsoever:
a) if it was super-super-secret then the web administrator *wouldn't* even *know* that these two alumni won that award, and
b) if he *did* know then he'd *know* not to post anything about it.

I'm calling serious bulls**t on that story, and I'm going to say here and now that the reason why those two names are listed at the end of that page is because someone hacked into that web page within the last 6 months and added them in.

Furthermore, I'll bet that the hacking was done by whoever runs the "Russian-Insider" site, and that it was they who went to Eliot Higgins and dropped all this in his lap and he had little more to do than to transcribe it into his computer.

Here, Eliot, unwrap this present. Follow the links, there's a good boy, and it'll lead you to all the "confirmation" you need.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 27, 2018 6:07:17 AM | 55

Posted by: TJ | Sep 27, 2018 4:20:14 AM | 50
Did you even read the article I linked to? Aging software FFS, a useless app for the bored. About as real an instrument of 'truth' as an amerikan lie detector.
Setting aside the fact that a pair of low rez pix taken off the net are worthless for determining this stuff, using facial recog apps is worthless and that intelligence services of whatever ilk are rarely truthful about sources, the article details how the determination Boshirov = Colonel Chepiga was made.
It (the determination) relies on bureaucratic archive material mostly obtained covertly - nothing to do with the highly ineffective facial recognition system. Of course the deceit that inevitably accompanies any discussion by intelligence service about sources and means needs to be considered. However there is a big elephant in this room.
That is given that blowing the claim is a simple as putting Boshirov & Chepiga in the same room live on RT, something that russia has already done and now that Chepiga is blown no matter what comes next, if the englanders are not sure of their ground, it is highly unlikely that they would have run with this. Not impossible - just unlikely. Remember the englanders are doing this because of overt skepticism about the entire Skripal saga.
It is more likely that the two are the same person and the englanders have released this ID because they know after all that is happened they believe they have jammed Russia in a cleft stick.
Because of the way the debate has shifted in the last two weeks, that is down to identity and not about cui bene or that the Skripals went missing for 3 plus hours on the day in question, or that the Russian duo arrived in Salisbury hours after the Skripals left home for the last time, meaning that door knob painting couldn't have poisoned them, it is going to be really difficult after what has already been said for russia to refute that and own to Boshirov = Colonel Chepiga.
They can do it, of course, but before that happens it is imperative more people are encouraged to consider the real flaws in the englanders' claims.

Posted by: Debsisdead | Sep 27, 2018 6:18:24 AM | 56

@50 Terrible inconsistencies in the Bellingcat report. Here's a glaring one.

Higgins: "The phrasing and timing of the award provides significant clues as to where Colonel Chepiga’s mission was. In 2014, there were no military activities in Chechnya. Russia had not engaged militarily in Syria yet. The only region in which Russia was conducting active military operations in secrecy at the time was in Eastern Ukraine, which is the most likely theatre of his mission, as suggested by the secrecy of his award."

How.... odd.... since the very web site that Higgins relies upon to come to that conclusion says this:
"You can become a hero in our seemingly peaceful time. The native with. Mykolayivka, a graduate of the VKO 2001, Chepiga Anatoly Vladimirovich, was on a trip to Chechnya three times, has more than 20 awards and decorations. And in December 2014, Colonel Chepig A.V. for the implementation of the peacekeeping mission was awarded the title of Hero of the Russian Federation."

It clearly says that the award was for duties in "peaceful time", and that award was for actions undertaken in a "peacekeeping mission". And it explicitly names Chechnya, but makes no mention whatsoever of the Ukraine.

So Higgins is in the.... odd... position of coming to some conclusions that are directly contradicted by the only and only source that he can point to that "confirms" those same conclusions.

As I said before... W.T.F.????

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 27, 2018 6:25:04 AM | 57

What other surprises?

Israeli plane is downed (pilot survives), Trump gets to be tough on Russia/Syria/Iran.

Posted by: jiri | Sep 27, 2018 7:59:07 AM | 58

Since they do not actually want change they find actors who pretend to represent change , which is in essence fake change. These then are their insurgent candidates
Posted by: Pft | Sep 26, 2018 9:58:02 PM | 34

The reason for Bannon coming to Europe to set up Europe-wide populist (insurgent) movements, which dovetails very closely with the Cook articles, would be to control and shepherd the - utterly inevitable - protest movement across the whole of Europe and ensure that it remains under the total control of the elite. Essentially a right-wing equivalent of Blair's "New Labour" cloned across the continent. Right-wing/fascist "populist" movements are easier to control and manipulate than left-wing "populist" movements, hence the overriding emphasis on immigration. Such a policy depends on more false flag terrorism, and more waves of migration from victims of Western military aggression.

For this reason (and of course multiple other reasons) expect to see a multiplication of terrorist false flags in Europe, and a multiplication of the targets of Western military aggression (Balkans, for example).

Posted by: BM | Sep 27, 2018 8:56:25 AM | 59

karlof1 @28:

Thanks for the great political and historical lessons in your post. There seems to be a lot of panic, maybe that's a bad word, a feeling almost palpable, that these are the worst times, that nothing has ever happened like now.

Wrong. Everybody take a deep breath, go into the crying room if need be, this ain't the first time this stuff ever happened and it sure ain't gonna be the last.

Posted by: morongobill | Sep 27, 2018 8:59:38 AM | 60

@22
British Labour does not exist to challenge established power - it exists to absorb dissent that might otherwise challenge established power.

That established power is well described in this documentary "The Spider’s web". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np_ylvc8Zj8&t=452s

Posted by: cirsium | Sep 27, 2018 9:01:26 AM | 61

Good Trump gave an entertaining press conference yesterday bordering on civil interaction with the media, LOL, and predictably downplayed the Rosenstein dilemma. He stated he wants to delay the RR meeting....(probably until after 11/6?)....

But when Twitter Trump shows up again who knows what will happen?

Trump will definitely become a less interesting and perhaps more predictable leader of the global capitalist apparatus should the demotards take the House and moreso if they also pull off the Senate upset. I believe he pivots often into the "gracious" Trump we saw on display yesterday and maybe...maybe... starts to even give something like lip service (at least) to half the population that didn't vote for him, cuts a deal on the dreamers, of course also drops his Obamacare repeal fantasies (by necessity), supports Social Security and Medicare more forcefully against the demented GOP hardliners just as he did during the campaign, etc. which should also help him shore up and retain his base support among those who will howl about a dreamers compromise.

IOW makes some moves toward becoming the populist leader he emulated on the campaign trail once the hard right no longer controls the legislative agenda. A move to the center right may also shield him some from the next round of congressional investigations in the next Congress chaired by Demotards.

This is supposedly how the US political system should function so will be interesting to see how far Trump will "course correct" in his self interest...at least in terms of public style.

For this also seems to me Trump's only realistic path to re-election. Of course he and many of his fans believe electoral lightening can strike twice in the same places if he just keeps doing what he's been doing but I will take the other side of that bet.

As it is, Trump's budget MO is giving both sides all the money they want for their pet programs (and accepting only token wall money in return), budget deficit be damned because he also supported the ridiculous "tax reform" legislation based on the long discredited idea that a growing economy will magically make up the difference in lost tax revenue.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 27, 2018 9:08:11 AM | 62

The Rosenstein 25th Amendment story fizzled quickly didn't it? That's thanks to Kavanaugh and #MeToo butting heads...
...
Posted by: Mike Maloney | Sep 26, 2018 11:38:35 AM | 2

I've kept away from the Kavanaugh debate because I don't like his smirking demeanor and he's entitled to an unbiased hearing regardless of my opinion of his facial expression.

However, Publius Tacitus over at Sic Semper Tyrannis has driven a Mack Truck through a gigantic credibility gap in his No1 accuser's deposition. It turns out that the age gap between them is so great that when Kavanaugh was a freshman, the woman in question was an adult who had graduated from college. PT's point being that it's extremely 'unusual' for an adult woman to be regularly partying at drunken freshman orgies.

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 27, 2018 9:15:48 AM | 63

Re Debsisdead @54

Would not the simplest way to prove that the two men are not the same be to produce them together at a press conference?

Posted by: Baker | Sep 27, 2018 9:24:57 AM | 64

Karlof1 once more very impressive comment @28.

The collapse which is necessary for the next [real] civilisational epoch of course will take down the Chinese and Russian 1% too. What people so often try to deny and pretend that somehow these noble anti-empire countries exist outside the globalist framework and will surely succeed by sheer moral authority to usher in a new magnificent when globalism collapses of it's own internal contradicitions is sheer idealistic hooey based entirely on a well-deserved hatred of the western empire. In fact, China and Russia and the US and the EU are all inextricably linked as you correctly stated. One fall down all fall down.

The dollar is stronger on the world markets which has its own negative consequences for the global economy but is a much surer indication of global financial sentiment than all the Trumpian blather plus all the worldwide web anti-US howling, enough of which exists to filled the seven oceans.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 27, 2018 9:27:54 AM | 65

I’ve now come to a firm conclusion and will update my comment @42. I believe this was a set up made to look like a set up of Trump instigated in the radical right Nunes/Meadows wing of the party with the help of the Trump propaganda squad led by Hannity and Pirro to discredit Rosenstein and make him appear like a deep-state operative in the public’s view conspiring to take Trump down to sully/taint the Mueller investigation, make Trump look like innocent victim Caesar with inside enemies bent on his destruction and temporarily distract from emerging allegations about Kavanaugh’s nasty youthful exploits with a media blitz distraction about nothing. Trump was in on all of it, hence his measured response and all parties had a good laugh at the expense of the Times which is why the Times quietly retreated in embarrassment. Democrats had nothing to gain in making Rosenstein look like a villain and risking the investigation.

It was all planned by Trump and Friends. Now Trump gets to shame Rosenstein with no public outcry, and if Rosenstein resigns; there’s an added bonus – Trump gets to pick his replacement. It’s all good for Trump. The most important question is always who benefits the most, again, Trump.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 27, 2018 9:44:44 AM | 66

@62 "Would not the simplest way to prove that the two men are not the same be to produce them together at a press conference?"

Tomorrow? Morning? Or is the afternoon acceptable to you?

It may surprise you to know that Putin can't just poke a gun in their backs and frog-march them onto the stage.

I certainly agree that Putin would be well advised to get the two of them to appear side-by-side, but cut the man some slack - the accusation is, what, 24 hours old?

And even when he does introduce the two of them, they'll just say that Putin scoured the land to find a lookalike.

Posted by: Yeah, Right | Sep 27, 2018 10:10:56 AM | 67


@ Circe 43

The reason I praised this as a Jewish blog, is not because of Zionists hanging out here. It’s because unlike many other blogs/websites with relatively uncensored/unfiltered comment sections, the comments here show no signs of antisemitism

Just to give one recent example, yesterday a friend of mine showed me some of comments in response to articles at UNZ review…..some were blaming Zionists for dragging America into WWI. ...Another one there said it was a proven fact and anyone with an IQ over room temperature knows of the Jewish supremacists/Zionist’s treachery in foisting WWII on Europe and America, and the slaughter-fest that ensued...the result of which was Israel, rising out of the ashes of Europe

Other commenters were praising historical revisionists who deny the Holocaust, Gerard Menuhin and Professor Roger Dommergue were mentioned, two Jewish revisionists who deny the holocaust and whose names often come up on right-wing sites


Others went on to blame Israel (and Larry Silverman) for 9/11 and to blame Israel for the Mideast wars that followed, as well as the mass third world immigration into Europe which has resulted from this.


Another Unz Review commenter called this mass immigration into Europe an “invasion” that is intended to be “white genocide by design” (meaning Soros and Jewish Supremacists are the ones behind it)


And so those are the kind of comments we’re finding not only
on Unz Review but on blogs and websites all over the Internet, but not at Moon of Alabama, which is why I praised this as a Jewish blog


However it might have been more accurate for me NOT to call Moon of Alabama a Jewish blog, but to point out that UNLIKE the comment sections on many other blogs and websites, there are no signs of anti-semitism on this blog

Posted by: dov | Sep 27, 2018 12:05:24 PM | 68

donkeytale @63--

Back in the oughts at the now suspended The Oil Drum blog (Wiki) archives, we discussed civilizational collapse and paradigm change often and in great depth. An often cited reference was Joseph Tainter's The Collapse of Complex Societies wherein he proves humans solve civilizational problems through the creation of ever more complex technological solutions that over time cease being beneficial and instead become detrimental--the system can only accept a certain amount of complexity until such additions become so complex as to damage instead of improve the system. In his writings and proclamations, Xi acknowledges that reality, thus the need to develop a resilient and sustainably systemic economy aimed at eliminating resource imbalances that lead to unequal outcomes between nations and peoples--the overarching goal is to eliminate Want and the Strife it causes so peaceful relations can prevail over the long term. Putin and his Russian team are on board as are the members of the SCO. So yes, a race is on to develop a complex system capable of being maintained without becoming more complex over the coming millennia. As Scenes From the Spider's Web reveals, the current system of power isn't at all interested in constructing its replacement and therefore resists it with all its might. IMO, it's through that lens that Trump's UN tirade must be seen and analyzed. The Paradigm's in the process of shifting, but many have yet to read the memo.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 27, 2018 1:04:11 PM | 69

@yeah, right... thanks for your posts...

Posted by: james | Sep 27, 2018 1:08:13 PM | 70

@63

If by #1 accuser you mean Ms Blasey Ford who has been on TV in front of a senate committee for the last four hours then I would suggest you find a more reliable source for your information.

Now it's Mr Kavanaugh's turn in the barrel. Turn on the Fake News. You might learn something.

I'm afeard the Trumpster has himself a bit of a dilemna. Best cull Kavanaugh quick and move on in the interest of limiting the damage.

Posted by: peter | Sep 27, 2018 2:54:49 PM | 71

@68
I won't comment on who's to blame for WWI and WWII. There's plenty of blame to go around. I would say that the rise of Nazism could be attributed to failures and inhumanity towards the German people post WWI, but nothing excuses what the Nazis did.

Now, fforward to present as far as the successive wars and proxy wars waged on Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen ALL can be attributed to a Zionist agenda imposed on the other most militarized country besides Israel, the U.S. Likewise, the Arab mass migration is not an unplanned coincidence. Wars produce mass migration and Zionists know this better than anyone. Therefore, I have no pity for Zionists who pretend they're unjustly blamed for the ME wars and the consequences! All these ME wars can be linked to Zionist foreign policy agendas and geopolitical machinations to protect and benefit the Zionist state to the detriment of others.

Posted by: Circe | Sep 27, 2018 3:38:11 PM | 72

But Dov why would anyone blame jews for what evil fake jews like Hitler and Soros did and still do? It would be like blaming Jerry Seinfeld for the crimes of Nathan Yahoo or whatever his stage name is, or "Sergeant Schultz" for the crimes of the IDF :P

More seriously I learnt today that Ofra Haza's husband who killed himself a year or so after she died had the last name Ashkenazi... I don't even know how to comment on that.

Okay I'll try.

It is strange to see pictures on the internet of a memorial to Ofra Haza or for that matter her grave, both in Israel, while Yemen is being ground into grit.

About as strange as it is to see wonderfully well made and mechanically excellent guns designed and manufactured by Israelis being delivered and bragged about by old-style Nazis in what is still being called Ukraine. Obviously neither The Black Sun nor nominally jewish oligarchs frown upon "cultural appropriation" or have any genuine misgivings about racial "purity" or superiority :D

They're having a fake jews and fake nazi love party! :C

It's about as strange as people who still think Nelson Mandela was a good person, or Che Guevara, or Bush (any!), or Obama, or Trump, or Clinton (any!), or Lenin, or Stalin, and so on.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 27, 2018 3:46:17 PM | 73

dov - another hasbara troll, but folks want to engage the bozo.. go figure..

Posted by: james | Sep 27, 2018 4:15:37 PM | 74

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 27, 2018 3:46:17 PM | 73

It would be like blaming Jerry Seinfeld for the crimes of Nathan Yahoo

Didn't Seinfeld recently go to the Zionist state and visit a commando camp where he posed holding a gun, grinning with the death squad members? And of course he gleefully violates the BDS boycott, takes pleasure in it. I'd say he qualifies as a propagandist, which makes him complicit in all the Zionist crimes.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 27, 2018 4:21:27 PM | 75


@ dov 68

Apologies in advance, English is not my language

I would consider Professor Roger Dommergue as an interesting French revisionist because he is a very brilliant man and his interviews are always full of humor and amazing anecdotes.


I had never heard before about Dommergue as a revisionist in France. An eventual mention of him on another blog let me know about his existence.

His presence is not perceptible in the French media which prefer to focus on the "living evil" Prof. Robert Faurisson. That reason we’ve never heard of him might possibly be connected with the fact that Dommergue was born from a jewish mother converted to christianism and that, despite he is an agnostic, he treats jews as his "congeners”

Posted by: jayde | Sep 27, 2018 5:43:26 PM | 76

Karlof1 @ 69

“Through money, democracy becomes its own destroyer, after money has destroyed intellect.”
― Oswald Spengler

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 27, 2018 11:02:15 PM | 77


@ Dov

I’m guessing that the comments you found on Unz Review were either in response to Ron Unz’s American Pravda series, or Dr Andrew Joyce’s article called “Modify the Standards of the In-Group: On Jews and Mass Communication” ?

Concerning Andrew Joyce one of the commenters said: “This is the most important article by Dr. Joyce that I have read. I had no clue about this vital information”

And from Ron Unz’s American Pravda series, which covers everything from World War One to 9/11, Ron’s conclusion concerning the JFK assassination is that the ONE CERTAINTY that emerges from any fair-minded study of the Kennedy assassination is that the media has been GROSSLY DISHONEST—and that’s putting it mildly.

As he puts it:

“So the clear dishonesty of the mainstream media in avoiding any recognition of a conspiracy seems matched by a second layer of dishonesty in the alternative media, which has done its best to avoid recognizing the most likely perpetrator.


“And the third layer of media dishonesty is the the most extreme of all. A quarter century ago, Final Judgment provided an enormous mass of circumstantial evidence suggesting a major, even dominant, role for the Israeli Mossad in organizing the elimination of both our 35rd president and also his younger brother, a scenario that seems second in likelihood only to that of Johnson’s involvement.

Yet Piper’s hundreds of thousands of words of analysis have seemingly vanished into the ether, with very few of the major conspiracy researchers even willing to admit their awareness of a shocking book that sold over 40,000 copies, almost entirely by underground word-of-mouth.”


As a public service, Ron Unz has put Piper’s Final Judgment online—and you can read it for free. Also don’t miss Laurent Guyénot’s From Yahweh to Zion, which extends Piper’s analysis.

But despite this dishonesty concerning the JFK assassination, you’re telling us we should trust the dishonest media's official narratives on everything else, including WWI and WWII, 9/11 and the MidEast wars, etc amirite?

Posted by: anon | Sep 27, 2018 11:18:04 PM | 78


Just adding: it’s very likely that Michael Piper Collins was murdered by the Israeli Mossad for writing Final Judgement, where he claims that Israeli Mossad was responsible for the assassination of US President John F Kennedy

He was a target, he was living in a hotel in Idaho, he had been living in a cabin but it was “accidentally” burned down. This put him in a hotel where his body could be conveniently found.

Ron Unz at Unz Review is doing us all a great public service by making Piper's Final Judgement available online

Posted by: anon | Sep 28, 2018 12:16:13 AM | 79

Russ thank you for telling me. For anyone else here is one news item about it at something called Times of Israel (first search result for "Jerry Seinfeld Israel"). The page displays poorly without javascript however in at least Mozilla and similar browsers one can choose to display the page without any style sheet (on the browser Menu bar choose View | Page Style | No Style or anything similar) which makes it perfectly readable without allowing it to run code.

Thanks to anon here is a link to the Final Judgement at Unz Review.

I hope I've done this correctly and that the page margins here don't break.

Posted by: Sunny Runny Burger | Sep 28, 2018 2:44:06 AM | 80

b: What other October surprises might be planned by either side?

Pastor Brunson will be released by Turkey. Timed perfectly for the mid-terms.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 28, 2018 10:18:41 AM | 81

Mon dieu! What other October surprises?

-$ 850B Omnibus Debt Bill Two
-$ 125B Fed Bank Interest Only Debt Service Bleedoff
-$ ???B Undesignated 25% Fed VAT Trade Tax Slush Fund
-$1,250B 3Q Deep State Mil.Gov UniParty Tithe-Tribute

Two trillion GI Joe bucks, disappearing POOF into atoms
No stop-loss, no audits, no accountability Great Satan
Bombing recommences at 09:30 Tehran time, 05/11

Another '11' Event to feed The Beast

Posted by: Anton Worter | Sep 28, 2018 11:19:18 AM | 82

62

USD:CNY is at a new peak, a peak that Fed Bank uses to white-wash rising interest rates as 'controlling inflation' on the continuing rising US 'National Debt' (sic) that without their (Trump as their puppet) 25% VAT trade tax would have cratered the USD and spoiled their profits. Fed Bank benefits not just from interest on that false debt, not just from 'stronger USD needs higher interest rates' plain charade, but from playing the global currency markets well in advance of Trump-puppet's announced sanctions.

It's a 3-fer that will be bled directly out of Federal (therefore States') health and human services funding to crush the fantasy-idol American Dream.
I see absolutely no indication whatsoever of your fabled by-and-by Rational Libertarian Kinder-Gentler-Technology Newer New World Order rescue. None.

With Trump's No Taxes on the Rich, and the gold bullion disappeared from WTC, Iraq, Ukraine, Libya, now India, the Queen and her Rothschilds Bank of London are poised to seize on the Iranian state's spectacular bullion and precious gems treasure. Meanwhile the Fed Bank is poised to wring $500B a year, perhaps double that, in interest-only ... FOREVER ... on the wholly illegal onerous, odious Wall Street gambling 'National Debt' out of the Proletariat's last remaining life savings, that are never coming back.

EVER.

Would you care for some borscht with your boiled turnips, komrade?

Posted by: Anton Worter | Sep 28, 2018 12:00:39 PM | 83

@ Sunny Runny Burger 82

Anyone who reads Piper’s Final Judgement will never think about the JFK assassination in the same way again

And any honest person who listens to this 45 minute video will understand that Michael Collins Piper was murdered because he dared to tell the truth

Michael Collins Piper: FINAL JUDGEMENT lecture [Mossad connection to JFK Conspiracy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2utTWSdq8YY

Posted by: anon107 | Sep 28, 2018 12:27:53 PM | 84


Trump is a New Yorker, he knows who knocked the Towers down on 9/11 and he knows why, he also knows his base is riddled with tens of millions of boomer retards who are fully gaslit with the "Israel Our Greatest Ally" nonsense. Imagine trying to navigate your way around this?

Had Hillary won, Damascus would now look like the smouldering wreckage of the twin towers. Never forget that. The home of two thousands of years of historic Christianity and that f**king c*nt Hillary Clinton was going to pay Al Qaeda to destroy it all. If we are to believe Trump is all in with Israel you have to firstly explain how Assad is still in power and also Syria is within a few weeks / months of all out victory!


Remember the ONLY time the media has given Trump an hour off from calling him a POS non stop for two years is when he lobbed those missiles into Syria. For an hour or so, he was "Presidential". This shows us what is most important to these demons. Greater Israel. That's what they want the most

Trump is all about pro-wrestling. It's all showbiz. Words and gestures are all he's given them so far

Posted by: Nora | Sep 28, 2018 4:02:48 PM | 85


a blueprint of a social system

Its design is well above abilities of an ordinary mind, including that of its publisher.

It is a dynamic process of two stages…..first destabilization, increasing freedom and liberalism, which is terminated in social cataclysm

and on the second stage, new hierarchical restructuring of society takes place

It is more complicated than a nuclear bomb. It could be a stolen and distorted plan designed by a mind of genius.


The master-plan begins with reshaping of the human mind:

People’s minds should be diverted (away from contemplation) towards industry and trade, and then they will have no time to think.

The people will be consumed by the pursuit of gain.

It will be vain pursuit, for we shall put industry on a speculative basis:

what is withdrawn from the land by industry will slip through the hands of workers and industrialists and pass into the hands of financiers

The intensified struggle for survival and superiority, accompanied by crises and shocks will create cold and heartless communities with strong aversion towards religion

Their only guide will be the gain that is Mammon, which they will erect into a veritable cult

Posted by: debs_is_alive | Sep 29, 2018 8:19:36 AM | 86

Herr Worter @ 83

Yes, I will take extra turnips, Komrade.

The turnip is a wonderful vegetable, providing rich nutrients drawn from our radioactive soil.

I'm well aware of the negative effects of the strong dollar. I believe I stated such in my comment, although to be fair only as an aside. Thanks for extending my comment with your wonderful explication. One day we may be bemoaning the deleterious impact of a strengthening yuan on the international exchanges. It all goes around and up and down throughout human herstory, and sentimentalism or moralism doesn't attach itself to profiteering in any case that I'm aware.

The market is still the market regardless of who is in charge of rigging the score, and yet always manages to tell a succinct story of its own regardless of the underlying causes and effects which drive the trading in the moment.

And no this doesn't mean I am a libertarian proponent of markets. LOL. Although I'm always open and eager to enjoy anyone's creative trolling of my viewpoints. Subbing in some conspiratard rationalisation as a balm for unpleasant reality makes great infotainment value and I confess to loving an occasional Double Double (lettuce tomato raw onion only, hold the spread and I like my fries plain, not "animal style". Skip the diet coke), as much as I savour the healthy goodness of turnips and all root vegetables.

FWIW, I pretty much totally agree with everything you state about the strong dollar's deleterious effect both on the domestic poor and also worldwide emerging economies who are forced to exchange higher cost dollars.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 29, 2018 8:25:11 AM | 87

James @ 74 - dov - another hasbara troll, but folks want to engage the bozo.. go figure..


One of the features of internet commenting is there will always be people who want to feed the trolls. I imagine creative trolling of the trolls is one attraction, especially when the troll is also trolling at a high level.

Just as there always are a few glum others who take it upon themselves (unless they are paid to do so?) to "serve and protect" the community from these heinous "comment thread criminals" in an attempt to maintain "law and order."

I guess my sincere question is why bother, dude? Unless you are paid, what do you derive from this repeated activity which always proves useless and in itself adds no value to the discussion?

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 29, 2018 8:42:26 AM | 88

I guess one possibility would be the thrill of the troll hunt? If b bans dov (or me, LOL) then you have a skin on the wall?

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 29, 2018 8:52:30 AM | 89

Newsflash

Neoliberal jackasses 'don't get' public service.

=
Bonus: donkeytale essentially admits he's a paid troll: "... why bother, dude? Unless you are paid ..."

LMFAO (thanks to mighty james, troll slayer)

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 29, 2018 10:49:11 AM | 90

@89 donkeytale.. ot question to me - which is what this is - off topic.. i don't agree with you, but lets look at the thread.. dov comment addressing @23 anon is ot... anons comment relates to the thread but once we get to dov's comments, it's clearly not related to the thread topic!

your comment @62 is directly related to the thread! your posts @88/89 aren't!

my approach is to call bullshit when i see it..i don't think about it too much.. i'll admit my approach isn't for everyone or admired by everyone.. skip my posts if it is easier..

Posted by: james | Sep 29, 2018 10:09:23 PM | 91

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