Moon of Alabama Brecht quote
September 18, 2018

Syria - Israel's Provocation Kills Russian Soldiers - Moscow Will Take Political Revenge

Yesterday Turkey and Russia agreed on a further de-escalation in Idelb province in Syria (see the update here). This agreement takes away the chance of an imminent wider war in which the U.S. and some of its allies would use a fake 'chemical attack' as a pretext to launch missiles against a large number of Syrian government targets and military positions.

A peaceful solution of the Idleb situation is unsatisfying for Israel. The successful Syrian defeat of the Jihadi enemy inside the country would allow Syria and its allies to concentrate their forces against Israel. Israel wants the Syrian government destroyed and the country in chaos.

On Sunday September 16 Israel tried to hit an Iranian Boeing 747 freight plane at Damascus airport. The plane allegedly carried an Iranian copy of the Russian S-300 long range air defense System for the Syrian army.

On Monday around 10:00pm local time 4 F-16 jets of the Israeli airforce, coming from the sea, launched missiles against at least three targets on Syria's coast. The strike came only hours after Israel released satellite images of what it called "strategic targets" in Syria. The integrated Syrian and Russian air-defenses responded.

The Israeli air force had warned the Russian forces in Syria only one minute before the strike. A Russian IL-20 electronic warfare airplane (red line) was preparing to land at the Russian airport near Latakia just as the Israeli attack (blue) happened.


Source: Russian defense Ministry - bigger
The IL-20 was hit 35 kilometers off the coast by a S-200 air-defense missile fired by the Syrian military towards the Israeli attack. There were 15 Russian soldiers on board of the plane which were likely all killed. Russian ships search for survivors. Some wreckage of the plane was found at sea 27 kilometers west of the village of Banias.

IL-20 electronic warfare version - bigger

The Israeli attack came out of the same direction as the Russian IL-20. The large 4 propeller plane creates a much bigger radar reflection than the small F-16s fighter jets. The S-200 missiles have a semi-active radar homing seeker. These are passive detectors of a radar signal which is provided by an external source, in this case the Syrian and Russian radars on the ground. While the missile was aimed at the F-16 its seeker likely mistook the larger radar reflection of IL-20 for the intended target.

At the same time as the Israeli air force attacked, a Russian frigate (red) near the coast detected missile launches from the French Frigate Auvergne (blue) nearby. The French frigate carries air, ship and land attack missiles. France denied "any involvement in the incident." But it seems that this only referred to the IL-20 incident and was not a denial of missile launches.

Even more was going on says Haaretz:

Not only Russian and (allegedly) Israeli and French aircraft and missiles were in the air. Civilian radar also tracked British Royal Air Force aircraft, which, unusually, had switched on their transponders and gone into holding patterns – most likely to avoid being somehow involved in the exchange of fire over Latakia.

The Russian Defense Ministry accuses the Israeli government of a deliberate set up:

"Israel did not warn the command of the Russian troops in Syria about the planned operation. We received a notification via a hotline less than a minute before the strike, which did not allow the Russian aircraft to be directed to a safe zone," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

After the Israeli attack the Syrian state TV showed the headquarters of the Technical Industries Agency near Latakia on fire. Other targets were near Jableh, south of Latakia, and Homs. At least ten people were wounded due to these attacks.

The Russian military spokesman also accused Israel of "hostile action" against Russian forces:

"We see these provocative actions of Israel as hostile," Konashenkov said, adding that 15 Russian servicemen were killed as a result of the "irresponsible actions" of Israel's Defense Forces, which violated "the spirit of the Israeli-Russian partnership."
According to the spokesman, the Russian Defense Ministry reserves the right to an "adequate response" following the Israeli attack.

Israel (and France?) are deliberately provoking the Syrian and Russian forces. It hopes for a response that allows it to play the victim and to call on U.S. President Trump for help and protection. The help would come in the form of a U.S., British and French attack on the Syrian government and Syrian military targets.

Russia will certainly take revenge for the Israeli provocation, but will likely do so in the political arena. On Netanyahoo's personal request Russia had stopped the delivery of original Russian S-300 long range air-defense missiles to the Syrian military. These would have been less likely to veer off towards the wrong target. In consequence an Iranian 747 was damaged and 15 Russian soldiers were killed. Netanyahoo can forget about any further such 'favors' from Moscow.

Posted by b on September 18, 2018 at 06:09 AM | Permalink

Comments
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I am not sure. Give it more time to play out. Everyone is scurrying about trying to figure out the next move right now. Yom Kippur is just around the corner, the Israelis are quiet...

Posted by: dan | Sep 18, 2018 6:36:35 AM | 1


If that interpretation holds water I can see two variants.

Remember, recently Russia told they upgraded all electronics within old Soviet S-125 and S-200 missiles in Syria. Russia also allegedly retrained Syrian Arab Army personnel and plugged their stations into Russian AD network.

Option 1: Israeli indeed were hiding behind IL-20. They did not intended harm to it, they merely were shielding themselves from Syrian AD, effectively disabling the station. They did not expect Syrians to actually fire in anger with such a complicated dynamic geometry.

Option 2: Israeli just demonstrated that despite all the fanfares about Russian upgrading and drilling Syrian Arab Army air defensed, SAA is still only SAA.

Afterall back then in Egypt IAF successfully challenged Soviet air force. So they probably still are highly skilled in both technological and psychological aspects of air warfare.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 18, 2018 6:41:32 AM | 2

something stinks...The Syrian and russian AD systems are linked together for the express purpose of not shooting themselves...The IL20 should have been a big friendly target, and not targetable by syrian AD...

regards

OY

Posted by: oldenyoung | Sep 18, 2018 6:43:51 AM | 3

Umm....didn't some say Syrian didn't need S300. How's that werk'in out fer yah????

And why does't Iran have S400 but Saudi Arabia and Turkey do? How's that gonna werk out fer yah?

Posted by: timbers | Sep 18, 2018 6:46:50 AM | 4

I dont get why Israel would backstab friendly superpower, which kept SAA and Iran off its back and allowed to bomb Syria without any consequences. Even refused S-300 delivery to SAA (what to speak of S-400, which is offered to countries like Turkey and Saudis). Israel might be panicking, but I only see negative outcome out of this mess.

Russia was always way too leanient in such situations in the past, therefore I dont expect much in response. There wont be military reaction, and after some Israel's concesions (IMHO Israel will offer something in one shape or another) there might even not be overt political response. I still doubt Russia will hand over S-300 to SAA, at the most Russia might threaten with it but wont follow through.

If Iranian Bavar 373 was really destroyed in Damascus international airport as Magnier suspects, it would be a damn shame. Thats what Syria really needs now.

Posted by: Harry | Sep 18, 2018 6:49:33 AM | 5

In all honesty, the reality of Russia's weakness is there if you want to see it.

There will be no delivery of S-300s to Syria, there will be no retaliation by Russia towards Israel.

"Political" retaliation is tantamount to "imaginary" retaliation, much like many declare Putin having won in Syria even as the war has not even ended.

Posted by: Realistic | Sep 18, 2018 6:51:07 AM | 6


On Netanyahoo's personal request Russia had stopped the delivery of original Russian S-300 long range air-defense missiles to the Syrian military. In consequence a Iranian 747 was damaged and 15 Russian soldiers were killed. .

Exactly, only way forward now is to give Syria S300 otherwhise this killing will occur again - if Putin do not do this he is way more dumb than we can imagine apparently.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 6:54:05 AM | 7

What cannot be denied by anyone is that all this harm was deliberately caused by Israel. It openly boasts of having bombed Syria hundreds of times "to attack Iranian targets". But that is no excuse at all! International law, the UN Charter and the Nuremberg Principles forbid any nation to attack another nation that has not declared war on it, unless by order of the UNSC.

If Israel did not attack Syria without any legal pretext, none of this would have happened. Why do the USA and its NATO allies stand by and watch as Israel commits so many acts of naked aggression?

It is perfectly obvious that all American and NATO talk of the "rules-based international order" are self-serving hypocritical lies. The only rule that they recognize is "We are always right, and we may do whatever we wish".

It is time for Russia (and, if possible, China and other nations) really to hurt Israel and its co-conspirators by any means they can.

Posted by: Tom Welsh | Sep 18, 2018 6:54:28 AM | 8

How do you know all this?

Aranian Boeing hit? Is there any photographic evidence?

Russian airplane shot down as the missile mistook the target? Who told you this?

As we have seen with the fake US, France and Uk attack on Barzeh, Damascus, on a science institute that was already demolished, not a single rocket was launched then, we must be very careful to check all information.

Posted by: Nils | Sep 18, 2018 6:57:36 AM | 9

Attacking Latakia from the Mediterranean is a huge provocation in itself never mind what happened to the Russian plane.

Israel would have needed US backing if not incitement for this and it surely had.

The significance I suppose is that Israel has clearly taken sides now there is no longer trying to balance policy towards Russia.

Either the US forced them or the Russian deal with Turkey was too much.
I don't see how this can end well.

Response will be neither political nor military. It will be asymmetric.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 18, 2018 7:00:06 AM | 10

Le Monde manages to make no reference to Israel in its online title frontpage
https://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/article/2018/09/18/avion-russe-abattu-en-syrie-confusion-dans-la-region-de-lattaquie_5356629_3218.html

The BBC is for once a little bit more honest
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45556290

Posted by: Mina | Sep 18, 2018 7:05:26 AM | 11

@10 There will be no response. Russia will move in more assets and hope it will scare Israel off, but it won't.

Posted by: Realistic | Sep 18, 2018 7:05:47 AM | 12

@Nils #9

> Russian airplane shot down as the missile mistook the target? Who told you this?

a wide number of online media said it, attributing to Russian MoD

sadly, MoD's site itself is very rarely updated about Syria


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now that gets interesting.

RusMoD announces publishing extra information on #MH17 Boeing downed over Ukraine
https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1041679984287522816
ENG: https://twitter.com/mod_russia/status/1041680008018894848

Coincidence theory says it is unrelated, but who knows....

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 18, 2018 7:06:08 AM | 13

"Israel wants the Syrian government destroyed and the country in chaos."
Combining the fact that the war is almost lost for the Anglosaxion axis and the stubborn moves pushing for more war could mean that Israel is only after the Golan Heights and not (yet) after Syria or Iran. They don't care about other's losses.

Posted by: Antares | Sep 18, 2018 7:13:28 AM | 14

As few of us here have tried to point out so many times months ago here - Russia is weak and have nothing against US/Nato/Israel.
Whats worse is that Russia have appeased the same states so many times and now we see what this appeasement leads to.

Will it lead to anything, any return by Russia? No and that is why this will end with the bombing of Assad, there is no other way around this.

Sad day for Syria and humiliating for Russia being played by Israel/France, rather ridiculous.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 7:15:25 AM | 15

every time russia shows itself to be a rational diplomatic actor, they get a kick in the teeth. the future is bleak.

Posted by: pB | Sep 18, 2018 7:17:25 AM | 16

"........This agreement takes away the chance of an imminent wider war in which the U.S. and some of its allies would use a fake 'chemical attack' as a pretext to launch missiles against a large number of Syrian government targets and military positions......."

The Russian government is still stuck on inventing false theories on the downing of MH17 so their supposed intel about Britsh intelligence working with the "terrorists" to create a false flag chemical attack in Idlib is nothing more than propaganda i.e., more Russian lies. Most recently, the Russian government lied when they denied there was a chemical attack in Douma. According to the Russian MOD, this was all staged by the White Helmets.

To prove this point, the state-owned journalists at Channel 1 "staged" the staging of the chemical attack - and showed it on Russian television according to the Moscow Times (“Russian TV Uses Film Stills as Proof Syria Chemical Attack Was Staged”:https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russian-tv-uses-film-stills-as-proof-syria-chemical-attack-was-staged-61249). Other lies have been exposed concerning the Douma chemical attack including that a child (used for pro Russian propaganda to prove the staging of the attack) was (secretly) interviewed at a Russian military complex in Damascus (Russian TV interview with Syrian boy was secretly conducted at army facility https://interc.pt/2K8gEd2 by @RobertMackey).

I agree that the downing of the Russian military plane is potentially a serious breech of the Russian-Israeli agreement. Israel was able to conduct airstrikes against Iranian military targets in Syria mostly unopposed by Russia. This certainly is in danger of changing. Russia could arm Syria with the S-300 missile defense system which would force Israel to change their tactics.

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 18, 2018 7:38:50 AM | 17

Why can't Russia recall its ambassador and cut diplomatic relations? KSA/Qatar, KSA/Canada did, so it is the new normal, no?

Posted by: Mina | Sep 18, 2018 7:44:04 AM | 18

With sufficient jamming and electronic counter measures (ECMs) in use, the semi-active seeker could have been tricked into a space close enough to the Il-20 that a detonation would damage/destroy it. It doesn't mean the system was garbage, or that the system even actively targeted the Russian plane, just that it was close enough that a detonation would destroy it. Using the radar section of the larger plane was an aggressive tactic, the interaction between the use of ECM and the S-200 might not have been understood to cause the destruction of the Russian plane although most certainly the risks were known and the attack wasn't called off.

This was certainly a well wrapped up provocation. Few people here seem to know that any Russian attack on NATO assets in the Mediterranean is grounds for invoking Article 5. I don't think NATO would care whether it was an accident or not, they seem to fabricate false flags at their leisure. Israel isn't in NATO so the mediterranean sea will be a less reliable battle space for them, unfortunately they can continue to violate Lebanese airspace at will.

As for improving the air defense system in Syria, S-200/300/400, aren't especially useful at suppressing these types of Israeli aggressions as many of them can be carried out without entering Syrian airspace or by using cruise missiles. For those types of attacks, Tor/Pantsir are the best you can do. But remember, even if the interception rate is 90%, if Israeli launches a 500 glide bombs, cruise missiles, or air to ground missiles, 50 would still get through to damage Syrian infrastructure. All in all, such use rates of weapons just feeds the MIC in the US...

A political or asymmetrical response is best. There will also be a repositioning of Russian assets in the region, not necessarily to deter future Israeli aggression but to strengthen the Russian negotiating position. The Russians might also be willing to ignore the loss of life for a technological transfer or two...

Posted by: Out of Istanbul | Sep 18, 2018 7:44:52 AM | 19

craigsummers

Actually you are lying/spreading propaganda. Nothing of what you just said refute that rebels in Douma might create false flag attacks as they have earlier before western attacks.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 7:45:50 AM | 20

The Syrians would have known about which Russian planes were in the area so it's hard to see how they could have shot one down unless they're just incompetent.

Posted by: H | Sep 18, 2018 8:03:32 AM | 21

The politics of this is very bad for Russia. Toadying Isreal and getting kicked for it. Failing to arm Syria is noted by other states, partners. This is where you will wind up with the ever-weak Russians. This incident emboldens Isreal, the U.S, UK. Take strong action and Russia (and China) will just whine and fold. Disheartens all those who have been counting on Russia.

You can hardly count the damage this bad behaviour by Russia is and will cause.

Posted by: Robert McMaster | Sep 18, 2018 8:10:00 AM | 22

Here is what an appropriate response with balls would look like:

"Israel has bombed Syria over 200 times in the past 18 months.

Syrian attacks on Israel: Zero

Syria is an Ally of the Russian Federation. Israel's latest aggression has costs 15 Russian lives.

Any further attack on Syria by Israel (or anyone else) will be met with the full force of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, including its nuclear arsenal, if deemed appropriate.

We understand an attack on Israel (or other western US ally) could be met with retaliation on Russian interests in Syria or on Russian soil.

To be clear, any attack on Russian interests will be met with the destruction of the attack's source, be it sea, air or land based. Any attack on Russian soil will be met with a devastating full scale Nuclear attack on American soil, leading to possible MAD.

It appears therefore that the future of the world now depends on Israel's desire to pursue its aggression towards Syria, a country that has never attacked Israel, or any of the other nations waging war against it since 2012 now, covertly or not.

We strongly encourage our western partners to work with Israel to maintain peace and strategic balance in the world, and with Russia in its efforts to reinstate Syrian sovereignty over its own territory.

We trust it is in everyone's interest to avoid any further unnecessary and potentially catastrophic escalation."

but yeah, we will get some ban on israeli dates, nuts and hummus imports to russia and maybe they will offer to pay for the funerals as well. until next time, the russian bear is patiently turning into a nice furry rug for the west to walk on again. for now..

Posted by: EtTuBrute | Sep 18, 2018 8:15:09 AM | 23

It is hard to tell really what is the background of this incident. Question is what french ship was doing there and did it really fire missiles?

Russia is carefully balancing in this triade between Turkey, Israel and Iran and had surely anticipated some sort of suchlike provocations. Israel could have just entraped itself with this attack way across the russian red line - that is for sure. So I doubt that we will see more of such adventures in the days to come, unless of course Russia's retaliation renders Israel to comply with agreed rules of engagement and Israel refuses to understand those. Then we will see wider kinetic events over the Med theater and I am sure it will not end up well for opponents of Syria and its allies.

Posted by: laserlurk | Sep 18, 2018 8:18:43 AM | 24

Robert McMaster

I wonder what they are up to overall, Idlib deal with Turkey for example, just days before an assualt, what did they expect? How would that deal end anything by letting rebels/terrorists a way out?
THe russians doesnt seems to have a general plan for why they are in Syria anymore.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 8:25:58 AM | 25

This seems plausible and also fitting with both the US statement about the attack as well as my belief Israel, not the US, is obviously the most interested anti-Assad party on the ground (and in the air). I don't doubt Russia will manage to extract some measure of revenge in time and agree it will by necessity be diplomatic in nature.

b, your even handed assessments continue to impress. Your journalism gains credibility in time. I know many here are surprised and bitterly disappointed the attack on Idleb has not already commenced and will be delayed indefinitely at least beyond the US midterm elections.

Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 18, 2018 8:27:52 AM | 26

I can't argue with any of these criticisms of the Russians. For all the attempts to depict the Turkey deal as some kind of masterstroke, the fact remains that Putin planned to attack in Idleb and then caved in to extortion (the false flag threat) in a way that never works and only emboldens the extortionist. With these Zionist attacks we're already seeing the result.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 18, 2018 8:29:55 AM | 27

I predict the Russian response would be to deny the airspace around large Russian air assets such as the IL-20. The IDF would find it difficult to use this tactic again.

Posted by: Ian | Sep 18, 2018 8:34:27 AM | 28

Why the French battleship?? Is Trump hostile to Jew trouble making?

Posted by: Robert Browning | Sep 18, 2018 8:36:40 AM | 29

Posted by: Realistic | Sep 18, 2018 7:05:47 AM | 12

Russia can begin sharing more information with Hezbollah. They can give protection to Hezbollah.

Lots of possibilities.

Russia is restricted by a lot of its citizens living in Israel. But that applies to Netanyahu, too.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 18, 2018 8:40:03 AM | 30

I don't believe this attack had anything to do with the Idlib agreement.

Just another Israeli attack on Syria.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 18, 2018 8:42:21 AM | 31

What was France doing there.. why no one asking about the British military aircraft on the radar in that area

Posted by: AG17 | Sep 18, 2018 8:48:48 AM | 32

@23 [EtTuBrute | Sep 18, 2018 8:15:09 AM] -- "Syria is an Ally of the Russian Federation. Israel's latest aggression has costs 15 Russian lives."

Interesting deep core values issue here, imo.

Whether 15 Russian lives, or 25m (+/-) in WW2 -- what does it matter in the (western) public perception business?

Very little perhaps: either (a) they (Russians) are just grunt stupid comrade-cogs in a communist machine and don't matter all that much (the value of a Palestinian vs an Israeli etc); and/or (b) even they themselves (Russians) don't give a f_ck about an individual's identity representing a nation's pride and sovereignty -- something that the USA (and others) at least claim (when it suits them).

Hard to read but basically it's well past 'who gives a toss' what Russia thinks and feels -- it's what they do (or don't do) that counts ... and they don't do much these days except for patience. Where's the need for 'respect' in that?

Tel Aviv; Paris; London; and Washington are just rolling around on the floor laughing, imo.

Posted by: imo | Sep 18, 2018 8:49:51 AM | 33

The Russians should sink a couple of Israel's Dolphin submarines; that would send the appropriate message.

Posted by: SlapHappy | Sep 18, 2018 8:55:46 AM | 34

Yep!

Fucking Israelis Stirring Up Big Trouble

Posted by: Oui | Sep 18, 2018 9:07:39 AM | 35

Russ @27:

Putin planned to attack in Idleb and then caved in to extortion

No. This erroneous belief shows the true danger in the view that 'Erdogan has turned east'.

Putin wasn't scared off. He simply failed to plan for Erdogan's mischief: he was played by Erdogan.

Here's what happened:

1) Erdogan needed cover for his full occupation of Idlib.

2) USA threats underscored Erdogan's humanitarian cover story.

3) A war against Turkey would simply be too costly. So a Turkish occupation will not be contested.


<> <> <> <> <> <>

Putin gambled on Turkey. But Erdogan has been playing both sides. And Erdogan's Islamist orientation means that his sympathies lie with the Jihadi's.

Pat Lang said that R+6 should have moved to take Idlib after Aleppo. He has now been proven right.

Posted by: Jackrabbit | Sep 18, 2018 9:08:02 AM | 36

@b

Tongue twister .. typo Idelb should read Idleb ;)

Posted by: Oui | Sep 18, 2018 9:09:05 AM | 37

In his press conference with Orban just now, Putin recalled that a Turkish jet had voluntarily downed a Russian plane (meaning Ergo knew yesterday what was coming? thus his grim?) and that in this case it was not voluntarily that the Russian plane had been put down but that very visible measures would be taken to step up the Russian presence on Syrian ground...

Posted by: Mina | Sep 18, 2018 9:09:36 AM | 38

i believe in none of this shit.

Posted by: partizan | Sep 18, 2018 9:09:59 AM | 39

https://www.rt.com/news/438728-putin-israel-syria-plane/

Putin says it was a tragic set of circumstances.

Posted by: sarz | Sep 18, 2018 9:18:29 AM | 40

Posted by: Russ | Sep 18, 2018 8:29:55 AM | 27

No. This was a Russian "win", as they got Turkey to cooperate. Turkey can now find out which Syrian "rebels" it does indeed control and eliminate the rest with Russia. Both, Turkey and Russia, granting the Syrian army it will not get attackes.

It was clear in the run up that "the West" threatened to attack in case the Syrian army and Russia attacked Idlib. Cooperation with Turkey means Syria reached its goals without the attack.

Putin has now called the downing of the Russian plane "looks like a chain of tragic circumstances". This will have cost Netanyahu.

Posted by: somebody | Sep 18, 2018 9:20:43 AM | 41

@craigsummers

The U.S. alleged that Sarin and Chlorine was used in Douma, based on the propaganda group White Helmets and other militants.

The Syrian observatory did not report a gas attack. It said that several people suffocate from dust after their shelter collapsed.

The OPCW, which took samples and analyzed them, found no trace of Sarin or similar and found no evidence for the use of Chlorine gas.

Several 'western' journalist went to Douma and talked to witnesses. All, including the medical personal in the nearby clinic, denied that any such a thing happened.

You can read all of that in detail here: Syria - OPCW Issues First Report Of 'Chemical Weapon Attack' in Douma

The claimed Douma attack was obviously fake.

Posted by: b | Sep 18, 2018 9:22:37 AM | 42

Re: Posted by: H | Sep 18, 2018 8:03:32 AM | 21

The Syrians would have known about which Russian planes were in the area so it's hard to see how they could have shot one down unless they're just incompetent.

Or the Syrians are just extremely frustrated with the Russians 'slow-playing' the whole situation and wanted an ''excuse' to 'accidentally' shoot down the wrong plane.

Oops.

Sorry Vlad, bet this wouldn't have happened if we had a more up-to-date air defense system. S-300, or S-400 say.

Pity we haven't been able to get one of those to defend ourselves........

Posted by: Julian | Sep 18, 2018 9:23:51 AM | 43

@Arioch 13

The revelations about MH17 were already happening before the incident. For example the Russians disclosed that they used the serial number of the missile (published by the JIT) to identify the manufacturing plant, the production date as well as the ownership.

Posted by: astabada | Sep 18, 2018 9:25:55 AM | 44

Re: Posted by: donkeytale | Sep 18, 2018 8:27:52 AM | 26

Re - an attack on Idlib being delayed beyond the US Mid-Terms.

What about TurkStream? When is that online? 2020?

Yeah, the attack on Idlib might be delayed a whole lot longer than a few months.

How long has the attack on the Golan been delayed since the Golan Heights was stolen?

Posted by: Julian | Sep 18, 2018 9:27:53 AM | 45


Posted by: sarz | Sep 18, 2018 9:18:29 AM | 40
Putin says it was a tragic set of circumstances

I would expect this. No use in official blaming (MOD statements will be sufficient to make it clear that they know who's behind this), just make sure that such a thing won't happen again. Iirc he finished the press conference stating that russia must improve the coordination and communication of their defense and that would take place and will be noticed by everyone.
After all there's still a possibility that this particular incident was an accident after all.

Posted by: radiator | Sep 18, 2018 9:40:42 AM | 46

What a lovely day yesterday for sadomasochist Putin. In the morning he got

Posted by: paul | Sep 18, 2018 9:49:57 AM | 47

Do you really believe those explanations? S400 could shut down F15 over Tel-Aviv, what they hell happened. I know for the fact that Syrian SAA have liaisons/instructors in very unit, shooting down Russian Spy airplane is impossible with this technology especially near Russian base with S400 that suppose to track all the Israeli Air Force bases and telling us that they were notified by Israel minutes before attack is a lie , they were not notified at all, as it takes minutes to Israeli jets to get into position to fire which Russian knew as soon as F15s took off.

It is charade people, the only reasonable explanation is that Putin was nice not to illuminate with combat radar Israeli F15 as long as they were outside of Syrian territory. Israel rarely did
it, did not have to.

.

Posted by: Kalen | Sep 18, 2018 9:50:35 AM | 48

46
RT has a slightly different translation.

"Russia will investigate the incident, Putin said, adding that Moscow will boost security of Russian troops in Syria following the incident. He said that these will be “the steps that everyone will notice.”"

Posted by: somebody | Sep 18, 2018 9:50:37 AM | 49

in the morning he got to kiss his Master Erdogan's ring. In the evening Israel and Nato (France) gave a blazing demonstration of their TOTAL disrespect for Russia and Putin. This morning Putin gets to humiliate his military people, who FINALLY spoke some strong words vs Israel, only to be submarined by Putin who blithely forgave Israel entirely. Putin can't stoop and bow enough to Russia's and the world's enemies.

As I've said before, I suspect the military hierarchy, or part of it, is increasingly frustrated with the impossible and dishonorable situations Putin puts them in.

Posted by: paul | Sep 18, 2018 9:53:49 AM | 50

@Dan
I'm not so sure the Israelis are so "quiet":
"Earlier this month, an Israeli military official said the Jewish state has struck over 200 Iranian targets in Syria over the past 18 months."
US News, AP, September 17, 2018.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2018-09-17/syrian-tv-reports-suspected-israeli-strikes-on-state-company

According to the "Israeli official", that gives an average of about 11 Israeli strikes on Iranian targets in Syria PER MONTH for the last 18 months...
Your definition of "quiet" Israelis ??

Posted by: Red Corvair | Sep 18, 2018 9:56:33 AM | 51

People here forget that it is the EU who is 100% backing Ergo (and giving him extra ideas?) because they don't want 1 single extra refugee to cross either the Syrian or the Turkish borders into Europe.

Posted by: Mina | Sep 18, 2018 9:59:24 AM | 52

@49 yes i wasn't trying to be literally accurate ;). Imho "everyone will notice" is a strong statement, that's what I was trying to point at.

Posted by: radiator | Sep 18, 2018 10:02:07 AM | 53

Russia has its own S-400 systems defending Latakia, so it can defend itself and doesn't need Syria's S-200s.
They would have been watching the Israeli F-16s on radar, and then they get a phone call saying an attack is happening in one minute. Russia must have said "OK", because they didn't blow the F-16s out of the sky. All they have to say to Israel is "Next time it will NOT be OK." and Israel will have to stop it's invasions.

The hairy-chested Americans here are calling Putin weak, but he can't afford to make any over-reaching mistakes, and all decent, responsible human beings are glad of that. Do you want to have WW3 just to show how much "balls" you've got?

Posted by: Palloy | Sep 18, 2018 10:09:01 AM | 54

@6

STRONG IS NOT WHO FIGHTS WARS, STRONG IS WHO AVOIDS WAR.

Posted by: venice12 | Sep 18, 2018 10:09:18 AM | 55

Putin says it was a tragic set of circumstances.


Could there be a more passive response. Sounds like it came straight from the U.S. State Dept.. The only thing missing was some twisted version of how Israel has every right to protect itself even when using a Russian airliner as cover for an illegal missile strike against a Russian ally.

No mention of agency or responsibility for initiating this “tragic set of circumstances”.

The reality is the jews have every western government AND Russia under their thumb and they can do whatever the f*ck they want with no fear of actual reprecussions other than some tepid verbal wet noodle lashing at worst.

Posted by: pantaraxia | Sep 18, 2018 10:11:35 AM | 56

Putin keep humiliating himself:

Israeli army blames Damascus for Russia’s Il-20 downing, mourns death of crew – statement
https://www.rt.com/news/438712-idf-statement-il20-downing/

Putin on Israel’s role in Il-20 downing: ‘Looks accidental, like chain of tragic circumstances’
https://www.rt.com/news/438728-putin-israel-syria-plane/

Russian weird weak attitude begin to scare me.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 10:13:10 AM | 57

Quite an infestation of pro-Israeli trolls today, much more than usual. I guess they're trying to put over a point.

Posted by: Laguerre | Sep 18, 2018 10:19:40 AM | 58

@astabada #44

> The revelations about MH17 were already happening before the incident

So just like many voices here claim Russia MUST immediately hurt Israel in a painful way, someone could had decided that Russian MoD should be punished painful way within few hours from their transgression.

Or it could be about "dominating news cycle" - when hot headlines are about Russian Military craft downed, who would lok into other information about Russian MoD right now? thus the new statements on MH17 are getting flushed into the memory hole.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 18, 2018 10:19:50 AM | 59

What appears to have happened is that an Israeli pilot used an old pilot's trick on the air defence system. Perhaps the French frigate was in on game, too.
The obvious next move is for the pilot to be court-martialled and a report/whitewash issued to establish that he was acting on his own initiative.
One of the less recognised problems with this situation is that, in the stand-off between the Deep State and the Presidency, local military commanders are able to make their own policy choices. In some cases, of course, these will reflect the dual loyalties which are increasingly to be found among military men who are unsure who they are fighting for but understand that nobody ever lost promotion by taking Israel's side.

Posted by: bevin | Sep 18, 2018 10:30:53 AM | 60

Reportedly, Israeli MoD issued an official statement, that

1. They express condolences.
2. They lay the responsibility with Assad, Hisbollah and Iran. Israeli jets were bombing Assad's plants producing W.M.D. that Hisbollah threatened Israel with.

3. When IAF jets were attacking Syria the IL-20 was not yet in AD's fire range.
4. When SAA AD started shooting missiles IAF jets were already back in Israeli air space after the attack was completed. SAA AD allegedly were shooting in panic everywhere without getting situational awareness

5. Israel allegedly would supply Russia with all the relevant documents and facts to investigate the accident.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1,2 - usual diplomatic bla-bla.
3,4 - if true (and Russian radars should have enough coverage to check it), shows both incompetence of SAA AD personnel and lack of AD integration (S-200 station only started reacting to the attack after the attack, they were not alerted in advance about IAF jets approaching, despite Russian AVACS in air)
5 - now that seems to be some rather strong language. Israel seems either heavily bluffing or freaked out. Or both.

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 18, 2018 10:38:44 AM | 61

@Tom Welsh #8

> International law, the UN Charter and the Nuremberg Principles forbid any nation to attack another nation that has not declared war on it, unless by order of the UNSC.

Arent's Syria and Israel at war for many decades? Same way like USA and DPRK?

Posted by: Arioch | Sep 18, 2018 10:44:19 AM | 62

It seems that ME "colonial" history is repeating itself ...
(Anglo-French-Israeli deception 2.0.. with the US "kicking-ass" or was it "leading?" from behind)

https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/USO/chp1_p2.html

https://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%20Protocol%20of%20Sevres%201956%20Anatomy%20of%20a%20War%20Plot.html


The documentary evidence does not leave any room for doubt that at Sèvres, during the three days in late October 1956, an elaborate war plot was hatched against Egypt by the representatives of France, Britain and Israel.

The Protocol of Sèvres is the most conclusive piece of evidence for it lays out in precise detail and with a precise time-table how the joint war against Egypt was intended to proceed and shows foreknowledge of each other’s intentions. The central aim of the plot was the overthrow of Gamal Abdel Nasser (F: his support for Algerian „rebels“, UK: his nationalisation of Suez Canal) This aim is not explicitly stated in the protocol but it emerges clearly and unambiguously from all the records of the discussions surrounding it.

…For him [Ben Gurion] the protocol was not something to be ashamed of but a major achievement. It represented a military pact with two great powers against a common enemy, albeit a secret and awkward pact. Britain’s persistent cold-shouldering of Israel was disappointing and disconcerting. But Ben-Gurion felt that the protocol at least gave him a guarantee against betrayal by Perfidious Albion.


...An even more intriguing conversation took place at the end of this one. It concerned French assistance to Israel in developing nuclear technology. Details of this second conversation only emerged in 1995 when Shimon Peres published his memoirs. The relevant passage reads as follows:
Before the final signing, I asked Ben-Gurion for a brief adjournment, during which I met Mollet and Bourgés-Maunoury alone. It was here that I finalized with these two leaders an agreement for the building of a nuclear reactor at Dimona, in southern Israel... and the supply of natural uranium to fuel it. I put forward a series of detailed proposals and, after discussion, they accepted them.[40]... A year later, in September 1957, when Bourgès-Maunoury was prime minister, France delivered to Israel a nuclear reactor which was twice the capacity previously promised.[41]

...it shows that the French were determined to go to war at almost any price and for their own reasons, not, as Abel Thomas later claimed, in order to save Israel. Secondly, it reveals the full extent of the incentives that the French were prepared to give Israel in order to induce her to play the part assigned to her in the war plot against Egypt. Thirdly, it confirms the impression that Israel did not face any serious threat of Egyptian attack at that time but colluded with the European powers to attack Egypt for other reasons. Taken together, the two private conversations at Sèvres thus drive a coach and horses through the official version which says that Israel only went to war because if faced an imminent danger of attack from Egypt.

(Source: The Protocol of Sèvres,1956: Anatomy of a War Plot by Avi Shlaim)


How could Putin ever think he could trust Netanyahu or the IDF???

Posted by: Cassandra | Sep 18, 2018 10:46:26 AM | 63

@42

According to the July 6 interim report (INTERIM REPORT OF THE OPCW FACT-FINDING MISSION IN SYRIA REGARDING THE INCIDENT OF ALLEGED USE OF TOXIC CHEMICALS AS A WEAPON IN DOUMA, SYRIAN ARAB REPUBLIC, ON 7 APRIL 2018 -  2.6):
 

"..........The FFM team visited Locations 2 and 4, where it observed the presence of an industrial gas cylinder on a top floor patio at Location 2, and the presence of a similar cylinder lying on the bed of a top floor apartment at Location 4. Close to the location of each cylinder there were crater-like openings in the respective reinforced concrete roofs. Work is ongoing to assess the association of these cylinders with the incident, the relative damage to the cylinders and the roofs, and how the cylinders arrived at their respective locations........."

At the very least, the OPCW has not made a final determination. According to a recent UN report (Jerusalem Post: U.N: "Assad regime guilty of more chemical weapons attacks this year" https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/UN-Assad-regime-guilty-of-more-chemical-weapons-attacks-this-year-567026):

".......These incidents bring to 39 the total known Syrian chemical attacks, a UN official said. BY REUTERS SEPTEMBER 12, 2018 13:35  

GENEVA - Syrian government forces fired chlorine, a banned chemical weapon, on a rebel-held Damascus suburb and on Idlib province this year, in attacks that constitute war crimes, United Nations human rights investigators said on Wednesday. The three incidents bring to 39 the number of chemical attacks which the Commission of Inquiry on Syria has documented since 2013, including 33 attributed to the government, a UN official told Reuters........."To recapture eastern Ghouta in April, government forces launched numerous indiscriminate attacks in densely populated civilian areas, which included the use of chemical weapons," it said, referring to incidents on Jan. 22 and Feb. 1 in a residential area of Douma, eastern Ghouta, outside the capital........A surface-to-surface, improvised rocket-assisted munition had been used in the two Douma incidents, it said. "Specifically the munitions documented were built around industrially-produced Iranian artillery rockets known to have been supplied to forces commanded by the (Syrian) government," the report added. In the northwest province of Idlib - where the United Nations fears a major imminent assault by Syrian and Russian forces against the last rebel-held stronghold - chlorine was also used on February 4, the UN report said."Government helicopters dropped at least two barrels carrying chlorine payloads in the Taleel area of Saraqeb," it said, adding that at least 11 men were injured."Documentary and material evidence analyzed by the Commission confirmed the presence of helicopters in the area and the use of two yellow gas cylinders"........"

This only confirms what Bellingcat determined months ago(https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/04/29/pieces-matter-syrias-chlorine-bombs-douma-chemical-attack/). In addition, Assad has ALREADY used chemical weapons in Idlib according to the UN report! Again, the OPCW has yet to publish a final determination on the gas cylinders at Douma.

Posted by: craigsummers | Sep 18, 2018 10:46:49 AM | 64

Putin pathetic. The least he should have done is to DEMAND that Israel stop attacking Russia ally Syria.

Posted by: Ace Hanlon | Sep 18, 2018 10:47:57 AM | 65

Russians are now saying Israeli warplane(s) launched missiles from near the French frigate so they don’t believe the French launched anything.

If true, Israel just tried to start WW3.

Posted by: Alaric | Sep 18, 2018 10:48:00 AM | 66

Sadly, those 15 Russian aircrew were just pawns in a bigger game. True of any lower ranks serving in the military.

Having pulled this trick once, I doubt the Israelis will be able to do it again. It was a clever stunt, but with essentially minor military impact. And I doubt the Israelis anticipated the destruction of the IL-20 by a Syrian SAM.

Lastly, I think it takes much more strength to resist the impulse to respond in kind to such provocations, which could easily lead to uncontrollable escalation. What's important is the end game, not these pin-pricks.

Posted by: Trisha Driscoll | Sep 18, 2018 10:48:21 AM | 67

@64 cs

Nice hasbara you got there... jpost? bellingcat? Really?!
Why not quote Nikki Haley while you're at it...

Posted by: xLemming | Sep 18, 2018 10:53:35 AM | 68

@craigsummers

I am sorry to see others waste their precious time refuting your obvious bullshit propaganda with which you tainted this site. Considering you are a paid troll, you have nothing better to do with your time, whereas many worthy commentators on this site have actual jobs and, for the most part, credible, non-biased information to share. I hope that in the future, when one such as you comes to dump on this site, you will immediately be called out as a troll and left to mire in your own bs.

Posted by: Bandit | Sep 18, 2018 10:53:36 AM | 69

"Putin says it was a tragic set of circumstances."
Coming after 3 weeks of European MSM explaining every day with the help of "experts" that the Russians and their bloodthirsty Syrian allies are going to slaughter 3 million innocent civilians in Idlib, it might not be such a bad move.

Posted by: Mina | Sep 18, 2018 10:53:36 AM | 70

...
After all there's still a possibility that this particular incident was an accident after all.
Posted by: radiator | Sep 18, 2018 9:40:42 AM | 46

Yes - an "accident" CAUSED by "Israel" using the IL-20 as cover for a sneak attack. The Russian plane was preparing to land so its flight path was predictable and anticipated.
The altitude of the F-16s relative to the IL-20, at the time the F-16s were targeted by Syrian AD, will be the significant factor in apportioning blame.
One wonders how Chutzpah-ish Bibi is feeling right now?

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 18, 2018 10:56:35 AM | 71

It was already covered in the early days of the Ukrainian conflict that rebels overran a Ukrainian air defense base and acquired the launcher and missiles. It's not a new theory or propaganda. It still doesn't change US intelligence analysts' estimation that the civilian aircraft was downed by mistake. Over a period of a month, the rebels shot down 3 aircraft while 900 passenger jets safely passed through the airspace.

summers' stuff is late stage propaganda. It is rehashing old material that has already been settled.

Posted by: Les | Sep 18, 2018 11:01:46 AM | 72

Harry @5

"I dont get why Israel would backstab friendly superpower, which kept SAA and Iran off its back and allowed to bomb Syria without any consequences."

Because they don't give a fsck. The official Israeli response to the incident is that it was all Assad's fault, or Hezbollah, or Iran, certainly not poor innocent israel.

https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/https/colonelcassad.livejournal.com/4464659.html

The Israeli attack was also coordinated with a zero-notice missle launch from a French ship. It all ties in with former CIA director Mike Morrell's statement that Russia should pay a price by having Russians killed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp40QzZYCUw

Posted by: Yonatan | Sep 18, 2018 11:03:18 AM | 73

Ace Hanlon

Yes Putin is "pathetic" and I am sure thats the conclusion the military throughout european nations today recognize.
He could have said and done alot after this attack, instead he conceades that it was a "mistake" that Israel apparently bomb Syria like this causing these deaths.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 11:34:43 AM | 75

Russia can choke on a dick. What do they call 15 dead Russians? A start.

Posted by: Vladimir Poostain | Sep 18, 2018 11:36:19 AM | 76

Netanyahu tells Putin he expresses regret at loss of Russian lives

“Netanyahu stressed the importance of continuing coordination in the security area between Israel and Russia, which prevented many losses on the both sides over the past three years,” the press service said on Tuesday, after Putin and the Israeli PM spoke by telephone.
https://www.rt.com/news/438743-netanyahu-putin-regret-lives/

Too bad the chinese dont sell these weapons needed to Syria, they need all the help they could get now.

Posted by: Zanon | Sep 18, 2018 11:36:38 AM | 77

"Putin directly contradicts his own Defense Minister. Putin: 'tragic chain of circumstances' Russian MoD: 'Israeli F-16s carrying otu the air strikes used the Russian plane as cover to allow them to approach their targets on the ground w/out being hit by Syrian anti-aircraft fire."

https://twitter.com/MarkSleboda1/status/1042070177209307139

To Israel all things are permitted.

Posted by: John Gilberts | Sep 18, 2018 11:37:24 AM | 78

"..........The FFM team visited Locations 2 and 4, where it observed the presence of an industrial gas cylinder on a top floor patio at Location 2, and the presence of a similar cylinder lying on the bed of a top floor apartment at Location 4. Close to the location of each cylinder there were crater-like openings in the respective reinforced concrete roofs. Work is ongoing to assess the association of these cylinders with the incident, the relative damage to the cylinders and the roofs, and how the cylinders arrived at their respective locations........." cited by craigsummers

This does not look like an aerial chemical attacks, but biased investigators tend to obfuscate the obvious by delaying conclusions. I heard that a gas cylinder with faulty valve can make a "decent missile" and pierce a few ceilings, but this happened when it is propelled by the pressured gas, and "crater like opening suggests a bomb with explosives. It was reported that dust raised by the shockwave led to suffocation, so those two different reports match. An industrial cylinder would neet to be propelled in some way that is not known to me, or used in some combination with explosive bomb, suggesting a very sophisticated guidance system, basically, a hitherto unknown weapon system. By the way of contrast, bringing the cylinder to the location and breaking it with a small explosive does not require any unknown technologies.

Posted by: Piotr Berman | Sep 18, 2018 11:51:22 AM | 79

Somebody at the Russian MOD will be sacked for differing from Putin's opinion of
the downing being due to a "tragic set of circumstances."

Shoigu reserves the "right to retaliate" while Putin is all in favor of forgetting the
incident...

Bodes ill for Shoigu's permanence at this post. No doubt he will be put
in retirement shortly due to "ill health". Unless, of course, he resigns from his
functions in retaliation for Putin's indifference to the fate of the rank and file Russian
servicemen.

Time will tell.

Posted by: CarlD | Sep 18, 2018 11:53:37 AM | 80

The Zionist Abomination's 100% responsible for the shootdown. Yes, it was tragic as Putin said, but his defense officials are correct in their assessment and Putin knows that. Russia's response depends quite a bit on Russian public opinion about the Zionist Abomination and how it responds. I'd call this Russia's USS Liberty Moment. Given Zionist's murder Palestinians daily, whatever moral conscious they might retain won't feel much sorrow or remorse, an attitude likely not understood by Russians, although Russian media informs its public about Zionist atrocities.

Syrians will also have feelings about this too. I imagine some will wonder why their stalwart ally seems so feckless with the Zionists, not understanding just how Evil they are. And I'm certain SAA will be livid at Zionists--and the Outlaw US Empire--for causing this "mistake."

Ultimately, however, Russia's policy of not attacking Zionist aircraft engaging Syrian targets has reaped what it sowed. If Russia had used its air defenses against Zionist planes when they first had opportunities to do so, this "mistake" would never have occurred.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 18, 2018 12:00:32 PM | 81

I really hope that Russia will not only denying favors to Israels rotten government. The MSM now use the IL-20 incident to avoid speaking about the reckless attack itself which is a blatant violation of international law and carries unimaginable dangers. A Third World War could start anytime soon. It's an unbearable gamble with the life of Millions.

Posted by: Pnyx | Sep 18, 2018 12:12:01 PM | 82

Posted by: somebody | Sep 18, 2018 9:20:43 AM | 41

Cooperation with Turkey means Syria reached its goals without the attack.

I thought Syria's goal was to redeem its territory.

Posted by: Russ | Sep 18, 2018 12:12:18 PM | 83

Some here express that Putin should do this or why he didn’t do that. It’s easy to express those opinions from the comforts of home. Never having bullets fly over their heads, or having to pick up the remains of their comrades, blown to bits right in front of them. And to confront the families of those killed and explain to them why they will never return. Yes Putin will never go through those things. But if he should act in such a cavalier manner, he is finished in all intent and purposes. And from what I can see, Putin doesn’t want an all out war. War is for warmongers who never experience the hell they so desire.

Posted by: Jose Garcia | Sep 18, 2018 12:16:27 PM | 84

Putin - "Most certainly, we have to sort the case out most seriously. And our attitude to the tragedy is outlined in the Russian Defense Ministry's statement," he stressed.
https://sputniknews.com/world/201809181068137705-russian-plane-shot-syria-putin-chain-events/

Posted by: Peter AU 1 | Sep 18, 2018 12:18:37 PM | 85

EuraisaFuture is back online and Korybko has 3 short pieces on the incident, which can be accessed from this latest of the 3, which provides news of a communication by the Zionists expressing condolences of a sort. More will certainly develop over the rest of the day and week.

Posted by: karlof1 | Sep 18, 2018 12:18:42 PM | 86

@84 It isn't cavalier to publicly call out Israel for what they did--violate international law by attacking a sovereign nation without provocation, killing Russian soldiers. Stating this FACT, instead of calling a sequence of unfortunate circumstances, would be the appropriate action. Then you don't look like a dog with it's tail between it's legs. And then you force the Israelis to publicly make more and more absurd claims to get out of their predicament. Then you also publicly announce that you will give Syria all the air defenses it needs to prevent any further Israeli intrusions into it's airspace. None of this is cavalier. Make the Israelis stomp their feet and have tantrums and cry about Iran all they want. But Syria will be closed to them. There is a way to diplomatically, but firmly call out bad behavior and enforce consequences for it. Putin acting like he's been spanked by Netanyahu was not the way to do it. It was disgraceful. And unless he turns course rapidly and decisively he is finished for all intents and purposes. If I were a Russian soldier, I wouldn't risk my life in the Syrian theater when my commander in chief told the world that I'm worth less than an Israeli life.

Posted by: Mataman | Sep 18, 2018 12:30:35 PM | 87

15 Russian soldiers killed by the actions of Israel and the French. Mr. Putin calls this a Tragic Chain of Events.

Yes,,, the events are allowing the Israeli's to bomb Syria at will,,, over 200 times. The events are not allowing Syria a decent air defense system that can determine Friend or Foe.

My question is how much longer are the families of killed Russians and other Russians going to allow appeasement after appeasement. Exactly what good are all the new weapons Russia purports and the 25 ships they have in the Med. The West bragged about killing the 50 or so Russian Mercs,,,soon they'll be bragging about the 15 dead Russian active duty soldiers.

I can sympathize with Mr. Putin not wanting to start a greater war but resolve is just as important as hardware. He may want to get his forces ready for a larger fight. BUT only if he intends to fight.

Appeasement never ever in world history worked.

Posted by: ken | Sep 18, 2018 12:41:17 PM | 88

Tricky times...
Thanks, B for the sober summary.
So many unknown unknowns.
Maybe Israeli attacks on Syria will cease altogether now as in the Golan?
How many strikes then out?

Posted by: adamski | Sep 18, 2018 12:43:04 PM | 89

To #84

Then Russia might as well surrender and get it over with because bullies never quit bullying until stopped.

Posted by: ken | Sep 18, 2018 12:51:36 PM | 90

There are several things to consider:

1) There was a substantial amount of time between the incident and the time official statements were made. Undoubtedly there was a bunch of negotiation and deliberation. We have no way of knowing what was agreed upon and for whose benefit the agreements were made.

2) If they truly wanted to appease Israel, why admit to the incident at all? Militaries cover up unflattering incidents all the time.

3) What is the statute of limitations for retaliation? If an Israeli plane mysteriously goes down a week from now, would that be a better or worse response than launching an attack today?

Posted by: Timothy Hagios | Sep 18, 2018 12:54:03 PM | 91

This is the only time I cannot share b's optimism about Russia's action. For some reason, it seems that the Apartheid Israel is not only controlling the USA and Europe but also Russia. It is such a shame that the Russian government is giving so much latitude to Israel. To be frank, I think the punishment of Israel would come from some Asian nation or the Middle East itself. This state of affair cannot continue any longer, sooner than later some capable force would realize that Russia, like Europe and the USA, is nothing but the Zionist playground.

Posted by: Steve | Sep 18, 2018 12:55:49 PM | 92

84 - Jose is correct, and there is too much premature armchair saber rattling here.

Putin's job is to protect the RF from another war, improve the lives of his people, sell gas and wheat to the rubes of the EU and keep Syria from being savaged like was done to Iraq and Libya.

Posted by: Bart Hansen | Sep 18, 2018 12:56:59 PM | 93

Russia losing all those citizens in WW2 looks 1ike an accident and unfortunate chain of events [Putin on loss of IL-20 aircraft] because Hitler invaded Poland.

Posted by: Harry Law | Sep 18, 2018 12:57:41 PM | 94

Tom Welsh | Sep 18, 2018 6:54:28 AM | 8
Has Turkey taken military occupation of Canton Afrin as a result of its understandings with Russia on the sight of the world? Were not you silent about the legal ground for such a criminal act by Putin / Erdogan?

Posted by: ALAN | Sep 18, 2018 12:59:08 PM | 95

@ Laguerre #58

They are being paid by the Israeli government.
Schools and Unis have just started - some need the cash

Posted by: Yul | Sep 18, 2018 1:02:16 PM | 96

Somebody at the Russian MOD will be sacked for differing from Putin's opinion of the downing being due to a "tragic set of circumstances."
Shoigu reserves the "right to retaliate" while Putin is all in favor of forgetting the incident...
Bodes ill for Shoigu's permanence at this post. No doubt he will be put in blah blah blah...
Time will tell.
Posted by: CarlD | Sep 18, 2018 11:53:37 AM | 80

Don't hold your breath waiting for Putin to 'correct' Shoigu.
Putin does diplomacy. Shoigu does Trouble (with a capital T).

Posted by: Hoarsewhisperer | Sep 18, 2018 1:12:28 PM | 97

@81 k & 87 m

I reluctantly admit this event & Putin's reaction are ominous

I have been waiting with bated breath for the other shoe to drop regarding Russia/China's involvement in the NWO, and sadly this event just might be it

Until now the whole 3D chess thing worked as an excuse to be patient

But this is indeed Russia's USS Liberty moment, and he is sounding a lot like LBJ in his handling of it

He could have said nothing, and let the MoD statements stand, and let Netanyahoo & Israel squirm while the incident is thoroughly investigated. It would have cost Putin nothing to do so IMHO, and would have had a sobering influence on the guilty party(s). But his statement excuses everyone, and let's them off the hook, free to offend again, which detracts from the where the spotlight should be: Israel's repeated, flagrant, unprovoked attacks on Syria

Say it ain't so Vlad - say it ain't so!

Posted by: xLemming | Sep 18, 2018 1:13:44 PM | 98

To all those who can't understand the fact that Putin is so agreeable to Israel;
Guess who are the oligarchs supporting him - Jewish Russians as well the Jewish electorate.
On the other other side of the coin - how many Russian Jews live and vote in Israel.Those who did vote plumped largely for President Vladimir Putin.It take two to tango.

FWIW: Some 12,000 Russian citizens living in Israel voted at 14 polling stations across the country — out of 120,000 Israelis who were eligible to vote in the Russian election.

Posted by: Yul | Sep 18, 2018 1:14:00 PM | 99

Will MOA change the Headline: Russia has now backed down saying Israel did not shoot down the Russian plane

(cause "it was all an accident")

b - be honest, and change the headline please.

"In less than 24 hours Moscow has gone from accusing Israel of the shootdown of a Russian jet in a “deliberate provocation,” to striking a far more conciliatory tone with Russian president Vladimir Putin calling the incident the “result of a chain of tragic circumstances.”

https://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/271144/russia-backs-off-blaming-israel-for-downed-jet

Putin: Downing of Russian plane appears to be accident, not deliberate

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/252169

And where are all the cucks praising Russian-Israeli cooperation?

Guys, people all over forums are laughing at Russia. I wonder what's next? Israel or the US "mistakingly" bombing a russian base and killing soldiers there? And then the cucks crying how "tragic" the "mistake" it was?

Posted by: T | Sep 18, 2018 1:14:27 PM | 100

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